I don’t have the patience to read RedState anymore, but reader C sends along a report:
So much awesome in the comments to Erickson’s post defending Newt/Perry for attacking Romney over Bain. Newt is taking hardcore heat for his attacks on Romney (as this tpm clip summarizes), but Perry is echoing him, and Erickson is all in for Perry . . . just so much fun to watch. One comment is titled, “I can’t believe my ears, Erik Erickson is a Democrat.” Someone else comments, “Your defense for Perry’s Leftist attacks are based on Democrat attack adds that were run against a fellow Republican in the blue state? Go join Obama you RINO. Stop lying an acting like a conservative when you are clearly not if you like Obama’s class warfare tactics.” There are acrimonious accusations of ROMNEYBOT! I can’t tell you how this made me smile: “I have always been a Rush listener but think I will take a break. Those of us who are paying attention to what is happening in our country are desperate to have a President who believes in America and her people. Rush knows Perry is a capitalist and to say he’s acting like Castro, to me is sounding like the left. He says Newt and Perry are sounding like they are libs, what about him? Only a lib would would equate Perry with Castro. He went on a 10 min rant over tearing them down. It makes me ill.”
The trick will be to figure out a way to keep this going for 11 more months.
When I look in my local obituary all I see is Republicans. As the party shrinks away to Whiggian oblivian, it’s gonna go through some weird death throes.
We’re gonna need a bigger popcorn bowl.
So the death panels are working. Awesome!
Reposted from previous dead thread.
Hah. I look at the Little Green Football blog now and again to see what relatively sane Republican-lites are saying. A lot of their threads run 300-400 comments. The one discussing Man from Bain had 56 comments in 24+ hrs. Shellshock, I guess.
Yeah, RedState is kind of amusing to read right now. So many of them are all-in for Perry even as he has racked up a pair of inspiring fifth-place finishes and is currently running a distant fourth in South Carolina. And their attitudes towards Romney almost perfectly mimic the stages of grief. Most of them seem to be somewhere in between Anger and Depression, with a few having arrived at Acceptance.
They’re all going to be so much happier when they can get back to attacking the blah.
If Mittens ends up damaged goods because of the attack ads on Newt in Iowa, they’ll be delicious tears. He (er, um, those unaffiliated SuperPACs, I mean) didn’t need to bury Newt, the guy does that all on his own. Unforced error.
Wingnuts have Howitzer grade circular firing squads. Dems use spitballs, paper airplanes, and sternly worded blog posts.
Here’s hoping these jackals feast on themselves.
@Cat Lady: FTW!
There’s no such thing as a “True Scot”, ultimately. Except for each crazed, deluded individual.
Let me get this straight…
…if someone attacks ROMNEY, they are a RINO. This would led me to conclude that some are arguing Romney is the true Republican.
In a way, I love what obama has done to the wingnuts in amurika.
@The Dangerman: No, that’s not quite it. To the wingnut, it’s perfectly OK to attack Romney just as long as you attack him in the right and proper manner. Attacking him for being a vulture who feasts on the carcasses of small American manufacturing towns is bad. Attacking him for speaking French is good. See the difference?
As always, this is a perfect moment for this cliche of a youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc
Perhaps we should bombard CNN with emails about how Erickson has become a liberal hippy. Might be the only thing that would make them take him off the air.
Of course, now that they’ve doubled down on the stupid by hiring Breitbart attack puppet Dana Loesch, it still won’t redeem their reputation.
I remember as a kid getting really pissed off by kids’ shows that insulted my intelligence, like Mr. Rogers talking like his audience was full of brain-damaged morons. I had no idea that by the time I was an adult, being a complete idiot would be a prerequisite for a position with a “news” network. Which is probably a good thing – I think I would have ended it all by age 6 if I had been able to see just how much worse it would get.
The thing is, I don’t think we need to worry about this firing squad settling down before the election. Old Newt’s attack was/is effective because as much as the GOP wants to pretend otherwise “class warfare” is happening and since the start of the OWS movement public awareness of the problem has gone from the high teens to 60+ percent. This isn’t fratricide, it’s a party’s death throes. The problem is preventing them from effing with election laws long enough ensure demographics do their job.
“Only a lib would equate Perry with Castro”: I’m sorry, I can’t make heads or tails of that. Unless it’s liberal to adopt a POV so far right that Rick Perry seems indistinguishable from Fidel Castro.
Is this guy still on CNN?
It’s always a pleasure to see the right-wing Purity Spiral in action.
It just brightens my morning.
Don’t try too hard; you’ll go mad.
redstaters are head bashing over this perry?
That was a fun read. Internecine warfare is much more enjoyable as a spectator sport.
I am thinking back to 2008, when there was much talk of how the Democrats were going to be so divided and demoralized because of the battle between Clinton and Obama. And yet the Dems were able to pull it together during the general thanks to having a great candidate and everyone in the party, including Clinton, making a big push for unity. I wonder if the GOP will be able to do the same thing?
The big difference seems to be that Clinton and Obama were extremely close on the issues and that most Democrats were fine with voting for either one of them. There were noises from some liberals about not voting for Hillary and of course there were the PUMAs, but those were definitely fringe. The animosity towards Romney from conservatives, on the other hand, is very much based on distrust about his core beliefs and record. The amount of “Not-Romney” fervor seems very intense. If Romney wins the nomination, it will be interesting to see how well the GOP can get their ducks in a row.
Fortunately, those SuperPACS have lots of cash to spend. It’s gonna be good for a long time.
Got another possible brain-spinning conundrum coming up. They’re going to be serving actual gold flakes in some desserts at the Golden Globes awards ceremony. Attacccckkkkk! as worthless Hollywood Communist Elitist Parasitic Scum! or DDEEeeeeFfffeeeennnndddd!!! as Symtomatic of the Class Envy and Warfare against our Hard-working Job-Producing Betters?
The Ancient Randonneur
File this under Proof The FSM Loves Us And Wants Us To Be Happy. @Cat Lady:
This is why I read comments here at Cole’s Liberal Union of Blogging Supremacy.
@The Dangerman: No, no, no…what makes one a RINO is turning against the notion that the best form of capitalism is one where the rich plunder the pensions of workers in order to add to the hundreds of millions of dollars they already have.
Pretty soon, the only way a candidate will be able to prove their not a RINO is for them to just march into the houses of the poor and rob them directly at gun point. Anything less will be considered socialism.
@Cricket: A lot of Obama vs. Clinton fight was also that people were strong supporters of their person. In the case of the GOP, it seems that a lot of the energy is going into being against the other candidates as opposed to supporting their own.
My Unity Pony(tm) can climb trees and sing opera after a nice glass of wingnut tears.
@Omnes Omnibus: Bingo. Vast difference between obama and clinton supporters and the current crop of fie-on-your-candidate rethugs partisans.
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
random question: does anybody really believe there’s no coordination between the campaigns and the PACS/Super PACS?
Sarah Proud and Tall
From the comments:
@Omnes Omnibus: True. I remember a lot of love for both Clinton and Obama. Most of the Romney supporters seem to be defaulting to him because they see the other candidates as unelectable.
I love the smell of low enthusiasm in the morning….
I am proud to say that I was at the Unity event that Hillary and Barack held in Unity, New Hampshire.
I wonder if the GOP is preparing a fence mending rally in Intercourse, PA?
These internal GOP flame wars can’t continue enough.
It should also be noted that the GOP is tipping their hands here. According to them, cultural warriors like Perry and Newt are Castro leftists all because they dare to question Mitt’s vulture capitalist ways.
This is the moment where some smart folks can point out to a lot of idiot right wing Bible thumpers that they have been really suckered for a long time by the money jackals of the GOP.
It’s all about the money. Money, money, money.
To a fascinating degree this resembles the tone of arguments within the old Communist Party in the years before the Russian Revolution and to a great degree afterwards:disagreement was always touted as evidence the other “objectively” supported the class enemy. Disagreement was always a sign of disloyalty.
The conservative movement today is totalitarian to its core.
@trollhattan: FTW! Holy crap the tears are so copious your pony can take a fucking bath in them.
Reading that thread all I could hear was “NOM NOM NOM, crunch crunch, crunch” as the cannabalism commenced. I like the visual of Cowardly Ewick standing athwart the bleached bones of his beloved party.
So, so sorry for them. I guess this is what happens when you substitute blind hatred of the “other” for all other rational thought.
@Sarah Proud and Tall: I am going back to bed.
I was flipping channel and came across an interview with Joe “You Lie” Wilson
Q: will Bain hurt Rommney in the primary?
A: We love the free enterprise system in SC, We are a right to work state, factories are moving here, conservative values made us what we are today – stay the course
Q: How about in the general
A: We have 10% unemployment here, people are losing their homes. People are upset about the status quo and demand change
Munching through bowls of popcorn, I’m as big a fan of GOP civil war as anyone here. But I am chastened by memories that there was no less vituperative debate and denunciation between the Clinton and Obama camps during the 2008 primary season. By summer, a wary detente had been declared, bandages applied to wounds, in order collectively to defeat McCain (who at that point was leading in national head-to-head polls).
I’m delighted to read about the abuse and recriminations in such tar pits as RedState or LGF. I’m thrilled that a conclave of evangelical patriarchs are meeting at a Texas ranch this weekend to seek divine guidance to stop the Mormon crusade.
But after all the internecine warfare, and our entertainment, a black man and his family are still residing in the White House and his homies in Congress are still trying to steal their wallets and guns. These putrid fears and fevers (as well a few private telephone calls from their financial masters, ‘Yes, Mr. Koch, Yes, Mr. DeVos’) will compel a Republican armistice in the not distant future.
ETA: Evidently Cricket and I were thinking along the same lines, though his conclusion is different than mine. He was posting, while I was typing. H/T
@Sarah Proud and Tall:
the GOP needs a fluoride candidate, or at least a workable commie detector in their ranks.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: Careful. That randy fictional old lady is liable to take that an an invitation. Of course she might bring some excellent pharmaceuticals.
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Good point. I doubt I would survive the experience.
If you want to read peak wingnut, try reading comments at Free Republic. For pure entertainment, I like the comments at Larry Johnson’s place (of whitey tape fame). The flame wars going on at Hot Air are pretty funny also.
Yup. This comment at RS is revealing:
Capitalism as religion, they haz it. Arguing about the morality of firing people for profit is the Devil’s work.
Or in Truth Or Consequences, NM?
Obama is a Moderate, a Centrist, a tireless promoter of bipartisan cooperation and the Republican Party is running against that.
@Omnes Omnibus: (#27)
Your point has merit, to be sure. But I think whatever shallow enthusiasm individual GOP candidates now command, once a nominee is selected, the imperative, indeed the crusade, to defeat Obama and the Democrats will channel that energy.
That’s either Grade-A stupid or Grade-A snark.
Really? and here I thought they were running against a Kenyan Soshulist.
@General Stuck: Where would you like your internets delivered?
@Mark S.: Oh I adore that idle worshiper comment too, right up there with the interaction (it was here wasn’t it?) where somebody was insisting the story of the prodigal son was about the one who stayed home because he was a prodigy.
@Mark S.: They defend the spelling later when someone points out that it should be “idol”. Apparently Obama is idle and may also be an idol worshipper.
I noticed that, too (that is, not the historical connection, which I can’t judge, but the style of argument). Very few commenters there seem to be interested in whether accusations against Romney are justified or not; the most common argument seems to be, “If you’re not with us 100% you must be a liberal.”
Two words: Quiet Room.
Only one candidate, Obama, has proven his eligibility.
Where are the rest of the birth certificates?
They used to be smoke-filled before the health nazis ruined it all for everyone.
Ding! Like Plumbers, the cracks are showing.
I can’t get my head wrapped around how wondering if Romney/Bain acted ethically is an attack on Capitalism or Free Enterprise; I realize it’s on the orders of the Powers That Be (I didn’t know, and can’t believe, that Bain owns Clear Channel which runs the Limp Balls) but, really, this is the best they’ve got?
Yeah, I remember the prodigal son thread. I had no idea what that guy was talking about, but he was damned sure he was right.
Sarah Proud and Tall
I know I’m nut picking but some of these coconuts are so huge they are either insane or DougJ:
@Sarah Proud and Tall: I blame Karl Rove for this, he’s obviously a rat-fucking double agent from the democRAT party.
Fixed, and they should forevermore be referred to only as such.
Oh, and look at the NYT suddenly discovering how to do all those tricky overly expensive, can we / should we venture into such dangerous waters bit?
Seriously, random chance don’t love me enough to explain this hairball of PACs and factional infighting and idle worship all exploding at once, not in the state that Colbert traditionally plays with.
How about just having it in Embarass, MN.
@Mark S.: That jumped out at me too. I’m leaning towards the writer being stupid.
This used to happen to Archie Bunker.
I like “idle worshippers.” Stop being so lazy, worship harder!
Yes, I wanted to write to the public editor to point out that they fact-check when they want to DEFEND Romney, but what’s the point.
The beauty of the birth certificate bullshit is that Romney is going to have an impossible time avoiding the release of his tax returns now.
@gbear: So much uneditable fail in one comment…
Drum Circles And Weed
This is all Newt’s fault. He’s let the genie out of the class warfare bottle and its damn hard to stuff that fucker back in there once it has gotten loose.
i love this craven bootlicking: “But as Rush Limbaugh said, as always correctly…”
update: weird error (see https://skitch.com/xian/g22ay/http-error-403 )
update 2: others can clearly post. May be a Firefox error? The home page is also rendering like the mobile version in Firefox for me (9.0.1 on a mac). trying again via Safari…
Firefox is fine here.
Willard’s got a birth certificate problem too – he can claim dual citizenship of the US and Mexico, where his granddaddy had 5 wives. Oops.
@Cricket: “idle worshippers”? poe’s law?
Somehow the thought of Gnoot being on the side of the downtrodden in the class war feels like the Poles must have felt when Stalin was their allie.
These tears are objectively pro-delicious.
@Drum Circles And Weed:
I dunno. It seems to be working for Newton. His speaking fees are about to go through the roof.
– Rudyard Kipling
Not that it makes any real sense, as you say.
Someone called Erickson a liberal?
Oh no, my wingnut friends. He is yours, all yours.
Maybe this can be final proof that the firebagger/obot flame wars are not limited to our side of the aisle.
Wingers have their emo outbursts as well.
One thing we SHOULD worry about is that without a doubt, the GOP establishment has already retained Frank Luntz to research an effective way to favorably counter-frame the issues raised by Romney’s role at Bain Capital. As evil-genius as Luntz is at deceptively creative ways to favorably word things, his genius is rooted in his willingness to do solid scientific market research with focus groups to find out empirically what actually works most effectively rather than merely what sounds as if it could be strongly persuasive.
One encouraging thing is that I’ll bet that even for someone of Luntz’s considerable bona fide talents, he’s finding this problem to be one of the greatest challenges of his career. Unless some devastatingly effective counter-response is forthcoming very soon, this would much more likely indicate that Luntz is struggling to find an effective counter than to indicate any tactical decision to hold their powder for now and wait for a better moment this spring or summer to mount a counter-offensive. The Bain Capital issue is deeply corrosive, and not the sort of situation that dissipates or improves with patience; it’s the sort of damaging narrative that once broadly set in the public mind, is extremely difficult to successfully turn around, even with the help of an evil genius like Luntz.
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t try too hard; you’ll go mad.
Ain’t that the truth. Must be really confusing for people whose only way to express disagreement with someone is to say they’re a liberal (and, by implication, always has been).
Throw in the typical paranoid schizophrenia and it’s really a wild ride, I reckon.
Much like a trainwreck, I can’t seem to turn away from the Right’s meltdown. It’s like the Obama/Clinton showdown, but on steroids and with massive doses of the stupid thrown in as seasoning. And unlike the 2008 Dem primary battle, there are just huge differences between the candidates that could make the whole PUMA thing look like a hiccup.
Just got the Corey Robin book and have started reading it. That book club discussion thread forced me to get it as it was probably one of the best threads I’ve ever read, here or anywhere else. Pursuing a degree in poli sci did not teach me as much about conservatism in four years as that single thread did. It will be even more interesting to watch this primary and general election in the wake of reading and studying and discussing that book (especially with the input of the author). And I’m very interested in his analysis of this fight in relation to the theory he posits in the book.
@dmsilev: Exactly. Wingnuts can only show their fealty to the Cause by demonstrating how willing they are to be bent over a sink by John Galt. Being consciously, deliberately obtuse about the blood dribbling out of your butt, as if it’s not your own, is voting against your own interests at its finest.
OT: but my kitteh (the racist one) just flipped the hell out over that picture of Tunch on the open thread from last night (he’s never taken an interest in my screen before).
Now he’s determined to find out how/where tunch is hiding in my monitor. This is too funny. LOLOLOLOL
@gaz: PLEASE tell me it’s a flatscrean.
@scav: Yeah. it is.
@cmorenc: I’ve got to disagree with the portrayal of Luntz as some sort of “evil genius.” He’s not. He’s just amoral. He listens to what people have to say, which is how you find out what they want to hear, and then charges candidates, networks, etc. big bux to pass on what he’s gleaned about what people want to hear. No genius, evil or otherwise, is involved – though I’ll agree that Luntz himself is evil.
It will be a great day in America when we stop conflating a complete lack of morality with skill, talent, or intelligence. If there’s a single belief that’s done more to put this country in the toilet than the one that a willingness to break every rule of ethics, decency, morality and even law = smarter, more “productive”, more worthy, then I don’t know what it is.
We Are The 99% is going to be pretty hard to beat. OWS FTMFW.
@Jennifer: Hear hear! Winning is not the only thing; winning doesn’t even have to have losers.
It’s only the crimped psyches of those who cannot play on the actual playing field that drives them to redefine it. Those without any scruples celebrate their lack. The rest of us are, and should be, appalled.
Villago Delenda Est
“Only a lib would equate Perry with Castro?”
Say what? Perhaps only a serious dumbass would…which pretty much describes the fascist swine named Limpdick…the guy famous for saying shit like “words mean something”.
To “conservatives”, words mean whatever they need to mean right this minute to advance the Partei in its agenda of getting power for the sake of getting power, and further enriching its members and cronies.
WTF does “equating with Castro” even mean? Is Perry in favor of universal health care, like Castro is? Is he in favor of literacy for the masses? Is he in favor of land reform? Is he in favor of tossing organized criminals like ITT and Meyer Lansky out of the country?
I thought it was about worshiping idleness. I can get behind that.
What should be the idol? Bacchus snoozing?
@Sarah Proud and Tall: Ye gods. They are sliding into clinical-level paranoia.
One thing I noticed: none of the Erickson-bashers are actually defending what Romney did on the merits. It’s just that their someone-is-attacking-capitalism sensors are going off and they’re responding like rabid dogs, but no one’s actually talking about the substance of the issue. Now, some of them may just be too stupid to actually advance to that level, but I’m sure some know that Romney is an indefensible man and all they can hope is that “If you criticize Romney, YOU’RE A DIRTY COMMUNIST” shuts enough people up.
Villago Delenda Est
These assholes quote directly from the pages of Pravda during the 1930’s.
It’s fucking amazing. There are no more Borgy Borg than wingtards.
Their plan is to have the final battle on the roof of the Oval Office, and all the acid blood will … too much of a stretch?
Newt’s burning bridges, and I have a feeling that when the dust settles, conservative posterity will not look kindly on his conduct at this juncture. I think we’re seeing the ultimate flame-out of his career, even in the wingnut welfare sector. Maybe Perry’s, too. People like Erickson who defend one or the other will probably come out all right, but not without burn-scars of their own, at least until the next election cycle.
Then again, Romney’s loss to Obama will generate its own scorching blowback of recriminations from the vast legions of anti-Romneyites. What will conservatives look like in 2013? The only sure thing is, they’ll be nastier and angrier, whichever of these factions comes out on top.
Here’s explaining the Castro (spit) thing: in the wingnut mind (I’ll give you a second to stop laughing), any comparison from the left that something proposed by the right is fascist or something that would have been, let’s say, German policy circa 1930-41, is by default wrong and terrible because in their mind their policies are nothing like that (and of course what’s his douchebag proved that liberals are the true heirs of fascism). So, to compare an honest, clean cut, red blooded, good American grade wingnut like Perry to Castro (spit) is a page out of the Left’s book. Rush just replaced Hitler with Castro (spit), because he realizes to go Goodwin is to lose.
Romney absolutely has a Bain problem. His bullshit will not sell well with small business owners (like my folks, for example), who actually genuinely dislike letting employees go, and who treat their employees quite well. Main Street ain’t about to recognize what Romney did as “creative destruction”, they’re going to see it for what it was, he was running a financial chop shop that destroyed a lot of businesses. For small business owners, that matters. Most spend their entire adult lives building a business, their identity is often tied to that business. You start selling Romney as the asshole who ruins your business rep after you retire, or the guy that screwed you out of your business when you went to him to help you expand your base… Well, that’ll be game over folks
patrick the pedantic literalist
This may have been obvious to everyone but me, but now that the “don’t attack republicans from the left” rule has been broken it is clearer to me how much the “attack only from the right” can be viewed as a process that forced challengers to go further and further to the right (and take the republican party with them) or have no challenge at all.
Despite his “never say ill of a republican”, Reagan attacked Ford from the right. Since that time attacks from the right were ok, but attacks from the left were not. This doesn’t hold for the democrats where being the more centrist candidate is often the winning strategy.
So the republican campaigns have been — attack from the right, attack from further right, attack from further further right … until now finally someone has had to leap into insanity or jump back towards the center. But the process has taken years and driven the republican party to the edge of sanity in the meantime.
I’m old. I remember the joy when Rush took out after Buchanan as not a real Republican his listeners went all nutzo on him. These things damage the brand for a minute but people that stupid are too stupid to learn and grow. They will be over it by November sadly.
@Villago Delenda Est:
Rush Limbaugh’s fans proudly call themselves Dittoheads. ‘Nuff said.
“ha ha ha! I bet you they won’t call us the Clinton News Network anymore!”
“why are we still losing ratings?”
This points up something which occurred to me after all the discussion on last Wednesday’s book thread (which was great, and I encourage everyone to check out the book The Conservative Mind.)
Wingnuts cannot make moral decisions.
They always rely on someone else to tell them what is right and wrong; what is an allowable argument; the way to live their life and the way to torment someone who is doing it differently.
They cannot reason; they must rely on Authority to tell them what to do and think because “Shut up that’s why.” They repeat it back to their opponents because they don’t have any further argument!
This is why what looks to us as hypocrisy doesn’t look that way to them; they are not articulating concepts from one situation to another, and extrapolating what those concepts mean to a different situation. They know what they are told.
And that’s all.
Romney runs around blowing Wall Street and the rich, but Obama is engaging in class warfare? How do you feel sorry for a wealthy person when someone legitimate asks about income inequality?
Funny that Gnewt seems to be carrying OWS’ water now
Santorum catches the Death Camas bouquet . Baby Jeevus tightens the screws on Perry and Gingrich. Or is it all nothing but a dream?
We have a genuine Bircher in the ranks, that’s exactly what you’re looking for.
@General Stuck: If so, what a wonderful dream it is….
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@amk: I have always thought that was one of the reasons to elect Obama. A lot of people have gotten away with hiding their racism because blahs never really had much power. Put someone in the highest office in the country and it’s all these people can do to keep it inside. Give Obama a second term and they’ll go apeshit.
ETA (in case the trolls arrive): It’s not the reason I voted for him, but I’ll take side effects like this.
Villago Delenda Est
Just a friendly amendment.
They have no ability to form opinions based on knowledge and evidence.
They are perfect apparatchiks, or Outer Party members.
They are authoritarian followers, to the core.
They make for excellent cannon fodder. Or serfs.
That’s too bad. The anti-Wall Street message will vanish. Newt would bloody Mitt more.
@wrb: Just because Newt didn’t get that endorsement doesn’t mean he’s going anywhere. If anything, the lower he sinks in the contest, the more desperately and viciously he’ll lash out.
@Curt: Yep, I have to agree.
Zombie reagan/zombie mccarthy–2012!
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I hope and expect that Obama will be re-elected; I’m also a little afraid of what happens next. I think some of the crazies “know” he’ll be defeated, America having realized its mistake, etc., etc., and are just holding it in and counting the days.
The fluoride candidate would have to be Santorum. I suspect he has already said “precious bodily fluids” in a quiet room or two.
Of course. This is tribalism 101 =)
His daddy is exhibit A for the DREAM Act. If elected Mittens will be the first Mexican-American president. Fucking irony – how does it work?
The panic over Bain on the right is really about the fear that if the story has legs many Americans will begin to understand the complexities of capitalism. Romney sold himself as a CEO, a businessman. Most people naively assume this means he provided goods and services and that in order to provide those goods as services he had to hire people, thereby creating jobs. No matter what happens at least some people will learn that real fortunes are made through destruction, that you can get rich by producing nothing and providing services to a handful of wealthy investors. It was hard for the left to break the notion that W was qualified to be president because he was a CEO. We screamed that he was a failed businessmen who relied on his father to bail him out, but it didn’t break through. We couldn’t produce a video entitled “When W Came to Town”. Despite his failures he didn’t leave communities devastated and hopeless. He didn’t destroy baseball in Texas. He used the system to build a stadium and profit at taxpayers expense. But there is a fucking stadium, and some regular Americans are probably glad it’s there. Mitt doesn’t have a “stadium” , and that’s why this story has some legs. Republicans want us to see Mitt as George Romney, CEO of American Motors, and a successful governor. But that’s his father’s story, not his.
You badly underestimate Luntz because of your profound disrespect for the people and ends he willingly serves for-hire. Although your terse, basic description of what he does is correct so far as it goes, it fails to explain why HE is so much more often able to come up with so much more effective words and framing for issues and candidates than the vast majority of other political operatives. Noting that he is “evil” only explains why he is disrespectfully repulsive, not why he is effective. To effectively counter his evil works, it is first important to acknowledge and respectfully understand what his strengths and thought processes are.
First, if you’ve ever watched Luntz working a focus group in a context where he’s not simultaneously serving a double-role as active propagandist for the GOP, such as a few years ago when he worked as a commentator for either ABC or CBS, you realize what an astute empirical field student of human nature he actually is. For purposes of conducting useful field work with focus groups, he is capable of draining all ideological kool-aid from his own head, and asks astute questions of people that are well-designed to elicit the real reasons for their behavior (whether they support, reject, or prefer one response or candidate over another). His other talent is the ability to conceive what words and framing most effectively reinforce the reasons favoring the side he’s working for. Of course, by allegiance and inclination he’s usually working for the GOP rather than as a truly independent consultant for some news network. Also, don’t judge Luntz by his appearances on Fox News, because there he knows he’s being paid to serve a dual role as both analyst and subtle propagandist. You need to see him work in a more neutral setting (such as for ABC) to appreciate the kind of true gifts he has (and is malevolently misusing when working for the GOP).
@General Stuck: I’m betting some in the gathering were not looking for an anti-Romney at all, and forcefully advocated for Santorum as the only True Christian in order to keep the anti-Romneys divided in South Carolina (now that Newt’s prospects are looking up there.)
@Sarah Proud and Tall:
Hee. I love the idea that the Republicans who were in districts red enough that the Democratic wave in ’06 couldn’t take them out really only survived because they are closet leftists.
Republicans eating their own. Moar please!
Davis X. Machina
You read the comments over at Digby’s place, too?
The Other Chuck
It’s supremely unfaair to lump LGF in with Redstate. Charles Johnson pulled a Cole maneuver a couple years back, publicly broke with the right, and the readership has shifted to match. They tend to go right-of-center when it comes to Israeli politics, but even then it was the extreme Islamophobia of the right that was the original wedge that drove CJ away in the first place.
You obviously haven’t been reading LGF since Charles broke with the right. The vast majority of the commentariat has no use for the Republicans for many of the same reasons we here at Balloon Juice don’t.
At LGF, modern republicans are largely seen as anti-science, anti-woman, racist, Christian-dominionist nutjobs and that’s seen as dangerous for the country. Birther conspiracy theories are rightly mocked and right-wing racial hatred is frequently called out and denounced.
The most vile of the commenters have largely flounced or gotten themselves banned and gone off to join the “stalker-blogs”, where they can fester in their hatred of liberals, democrats, Muslims, climatologists and, primarily, the “traitor” Johnson and what LGF has become since Charles’s conversion.
Seriously, I’d recommend substituting Hot Air or Free Republic for LGF in your “tar pit” characterization above.
“Et tu, Brute?”
Good post. Luntz is one of the few GOP operatives who actually earns his keep. He’s invaluable to Repblicans because his first love and main interest is language and politics. Sinces he’s a Republican, he uses his skills to advance their candidates. He’s not going away. I wish the Democrats had some language nerd who could convince them of the importance of effective framing.
@Joey Maloney: In the name of all that is well and good, please, oh please, exalted FSM hear my plaintive beseechments that the event shall taketh place in Stillmore, GA…
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Redshift: You’re underestimating the sheer hissy-fit potential of the fundie wing.
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Possibly, and I’m also probably overestimating the skill of the Romney campaign, based on their work so far. However, I hope the idea spreads that there are fifth columnists in every GOP gathering, and that’s the only reason things keep turning out so Romney just barely stays ahead.
@WereBear: Couldn’t resist wading into the fever swamp out of morbid curiosity. And just a few comments in I find a commenter saying exactly this, albeit in a different fashion:
(“The Mics” BTW is used as a shorthand for the various shock jocks that dominate the airwaves)
Man, it’s like the invisible hand naturally does the nutpicking for me.
Again, we have the Bircher King in the running.
From how I remember it, Charles Johnson, of LGF, never really changed his liberal political views on most things. He just associated with the Republicans because 9/11 drove him to insane levels of violent delusions and he decided he would rather see support a violently Islamophobic party instead of supporting the slightly more pacifistic party which agreed with him on 90 percent of the issues. I remember him complaining in 2004 about how idiotic Republicans were on social issues but he decided to vote for Bush anyways because Bush would keep the bombs flowing.
Was a kinda strange thing at the time. I don’t know what finally cured him of those ultraviolent dreams of vengeance.
This brings me great joy.
“Over time it’s going to be important for nations to know they will be held accountable for inactivity,” he said. “You’re either with us or against us in the fight against terror.”
funny what Bush really started eh?
I didn’t read the comments, but it was very interesting to read Erickson’s post. What he said was extremely rational. It boiled down to “Let’s at least be CONSISTENT in our attacks”, and “The fact that capitalISM is good does not automatically make every capitalIST good”. These are totally sane and logical positions, no matter how left or right you are. But obviously, if you try to speak to the Republican base with sanity or rationality, you are going to be skewered with a thousand rusty Confederate swords – no matter how much you might have been “on their side” earlier.
Binky the consumer bear
It is fascinating to watch the coalition of interest groups that was formed in the aftermath of Watergate in the name of “conservatism” is flying apart centripetally due in no small part to the fundamental incompatibility of the factions’ interests. The libertarian, hedonistic wealthy elites can’t coexist with Evangelicals’ values and the excess of both of those factions are offensive to the “silent majority” types: a mix of Protestant work ethic types and conservative Roman Catholics who value conservatism over the liberal wing of that church.
i’m so late to this thread, but this almost makes me want to visit Redstate and make a buttload of comments- dual identities along the lines of some emotionally tormented, heart-broken gooper and some as a snarky, clucking Dem
“I can’t listen to Rush anymore! Mommeeeeeee!”
@Binky the consumer bear: They need each other too much. I wouldn’t get too unnecessarily hopeful :(