While I have so recently been reminded by our friends in the 101st Chairborne that I’m some arugula-chomping, word-chopping, bubble-bound faux-American, it happens that even folks from my particular corner of Alinskystan talk to people whose daily life is as real as it gets.
Which is to say that one of my friends most often in my thoughts is an infantryman to the bone, decades in uniform, absolutely dedicated to the idea of service and his men. He’s an enlisted man, on his third tour in the Iraq/Afghanistan long war — and you can take this to the bank: if you or your child had to hump up some hill where folks sought to do you or yours ill, you’d want my friend there too. He’s one of nature’s sergeants, I’m trying to say, the kind of guy who knows what he’s doing to some very deep level, and takes the use of that knowledge as an obligation he owes anyone under gaze.
In December, I wrote him a quick note — just a “happy holidays – hope you’re OK” kind of thing. When I got his reply, I asked for permission to post it here — which I’ve just received.
My friend speaks for himself. I’m not going to gloss it further except to say this: I’m past tolerating being told by comfortable American Exceptionalists about the necessity of the next war, or the war after that. My friend and his friends carry the load for all such Dulce et Decorum posturing.
So. Notes from Over There:
I am still in Afghanistan in [Deleted] province at an altitude of [Deleted] feet. We have no heat in our bee huts (plywood shacks that sleep six), the temperature at night is in the low teens. They tell us they are working on getting a heater.
It is a tough tour. We lost six men to an IED three days before Christmas, [not his unit] we worked closely together and I knew them well. We have lost twenty Americans since I arrived. Today I was on an air mission we flew high into the mountains in a heavily Taliban controlled area, luckily we had no trouble. War is a strange thing, going out on missions almost everyday and not knowing if it will be your last day on earth.
We work with the provincial governors and sub governors to build roads, bridges, schools, and give out humanitarian aid, but the leaders steal most of the money and little gets down to the people. I am out in the boonies, we fire artillery all day and night and they rocket us. Soldiers…are killed and wounded almost weekly, the call goes out over the loud speaker all this type or that type of blood report to the aid station. I have carried wounded on to helicopters in the field and carried others off the helicopters back at base. It always makes my eyes water and heart hurt to see their broken bodies. It is surreal. I will finish my tour in [Deleted], I had a short leave home in [Deleted]. It is interesting; we raid villages at night and capture terrorist responsible for the bombings, we caught the ones who killed the [men lost before Christmas] the night before last.
I am fine. I am an old soldier, and still tough, I plan missions and lead them and so far, thank God, I have not lost one of my men. The fighting in Ramadi Iraq was more bloody, but this place is no joke either. I will never understand why nations go to war, I know the politics, countries do bad things, but it is so ugly. I now have a collection of faces of men that I knew who have been killed in action that live in my head. I am sorry to write like this but I guess I was feeling philosophical.
I hope you join me in sending every good wish and hope to my friend and those with whom he serves. That is all.
Image: Rembrandt van Rijn, Old Soldier, undated — first half of the seventeenth century.
The Fat Kate Middleton
That last paragraph brought me to tears. Thank you for sharing this, Tom.
Soonergrunt
I know.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Soonergrunt: Yes. Yes, you do.
Linda Featheringill
To your friend:
[[hugs]]
If you were closer, we could sit down and cry together.
rikryah
thank you for sharing this with us
Rathskeller
Thanks for posting. The very best of luck to your friend.
Jerzy Russian
Done. Thanks for posting.
Raven
But they had a parade in St Louis.
Deb T
Thank you for sharing this letter. I think it’s time to replace my old tattered “Bring the Troops Home Now” with a new one. One reason I like having it is because I see it every day and it reminds me our men and women are still fighting that god awful war.
I’ve been reading about WWI and had to stop because the brutality of trench warfare, the conditions the soldiers had to survive, the bloody useless mistakes made by the leadership, just made me so sad. You’d have thought after that war that killed the flower of Europe’s youth would have deterred humankind from engaging in anything so horrendous and destructive, but it must be in our blood – the blood of humanity for it seems to be the first choice of so many, especially, these days, of those who don’t have to fight.
Garbo
Every good wish sent. And thanks for the Rembrandt portrait. The face half shaded and the thousand yard stare are perfectly apropos.
JCT
G_dspeed to him and his men.
One of the reasons I have harbor such dislike of Bush and his Neocon buddies is that they use our servicemen and women as Risk pieces on a game board.
OK, the juxtaposition of this piece with the picture of that fucking parasite Priebus is literally making me ill. I’m sure that shitstain has sacrificed for his country.
Why could ANYONE imagine putting these GOP assholes back in charge of this country is a good thing?
Paul in KY
What a job your friend & his men have, Tom. He’s one of our best. God bless him & his troops. I hope & pray he can get out of there ASAP & retire.
Samara Morgan
you do know, i presume, that the 101st contained the members of the Iraqi Rape Squad?
is there a a correlation?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I understand why nations go to war. What I don’t understand is why we accept the reasons nations go to war.
Tone In DC
Thanks for the post. The drawdown can’t get here fast enough.
Samara Morgan
@Paul in KY: he should never have been sent there.
trying to save the troops fee fees is just gunna lead to the next pointless, unwinnable, immoral war of choice.
There is no “just war” for civilian populations.
None.
Churchlady
@Soonergrunt: Thank you then. You know what we can choose to ignore, and I am deeply sorry you ever had to.
kdaug
Bring ’em home.
Raven
@Samara Morgan: hey dumbass the 101st Airborne (Air Assualt) is NOT the 101st Chairborne. Stick to shit you have some vague idea about.
balconesfault
Pick up the book Matterhorn, by Vietnam vet Karl Marlantes. Does an amazing job of taking you day by day through the scenarios your friend describes in his letter. It’s staggering the physical and psychological damage we’re bestowing on those patriotic and idealistic enough to sign up to go where the politicians decide.
Samara Morgan
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): bravo.
WWII is justifiable, if not just. the japanese attacked america, and the germans were their allies.
National DEFENSE.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
I hope you join me in sending every good wish and hope to my friend and those with whom he serves. That is all.
Not being an American, I give him the same wishes I gave the Russian soldiers occupying Afghanistan back in the eighties.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Samara Morgan: (I wasn’t goint to comment until I saw your update.)
WTF?! Like whether the troops are happy or not has anything to do with whether they will be sent to a war. Stay out of this one, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And, the “there are no just wars” line is inane. No, we shouldn’t be invading other countries, but defeating the Germans and Japanese in WW2 was justified.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Samara Morgan: If I remember correctly, there was this group called al Qaeda, stationed in Afghanistan.
Samara Morgan
@Raven: the 101st airborne is these guys.
Like the exemplars?
sry about your fee fees, but quit glorifying “the Troops”.
we have no bidness there and we never did.
GTFO.
grampus
I too send every good wish and hope to your friend. And heartfelt thanks for his service, too. And I hope they can all come home soon.
David Hunt
Jeez. We are so profoundly lucky to have men like that who are willing to serve their country in such harsh and uncertain circumstances. My best hopes and wishes to everyone Over There and to your friend especially.
John Weiss
When, do you suppose, are ‘ordinary’ folk going to stop listening to the damned authoritarians? Perhaps medical science will come up with a cure.
Samara Morgan
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): like i said, the japanese attacked us. they were allied with the germans.
al-Q is a stateless entity. the sovereign nation states of Iraq and Afghanistan did not attack the USA.
WTF have we been doing there for 10 years?
What was the mission, doofus?
Raven
@Samara Morgan: And it has not one fucking thing to do with what Tom said. Go back to bed.
RossInDetroit
@John Weiss:
When, among other things, Hollywood stops making war look like a brief, glorious entertainment and represents it as the 24X7 horror that it is.
Raven
@RossInDetroit: rotsa ruck
Samara Morgan
@David Hunt: no we are not.
100,000 Americans died in Viet Nam for nothing.
5,000 soldiers died in Iraq for nothing.
we dont know yet how many soldiers are gunna die in the Graveyard of Empires for nothing, but the six guys Levensons friend talks about are some of them.
Get a clue.
jackmac
Thanks for posting this. Most of us have so little connection to military service and the many truly decent, dedicated people who serve. My own recent exposure has been attendance at two military funerals plus a homecoming of a severely wounded Marine. Each time I’ve heard beautiful and well-deserved testimonials to the dedication and qualities of each young man. But I can’t get past the overwhelming sorrow over the loss and waste of each life. I hope your friend and his colleagues come home safe and soon.
Samara Morgan
@Raven: it has everything to do with what Levenson said.
Glorifying the military is what gives the America-fuck-yeah-bots a pass for atrocity and wars of choice.
Samara Morgan
@jackmac:
In service of an evil, doomed, and illegitimate cause.
just admit it.
Trakker
Is it worth it? That’s what I want to know.
Raven
@Samara Morgan: come on, you are just being stupid for the sake of being stupid. Get your numbers straight.
Dave
God damn it, but war sucks. Even in the rare cases it is necessary, it is a horrible, horrible thing.
Thank you for posting this, Tom. It always reminds me of that quote from Unforgiven: “It’s a hell of a thing, killin’ a man. Take away all he’s got, and all he’s ever gonna have”
I wish the people who send our brave soldiers into harm’s way would give that a little thought.
Samara Morgan
@Raven:
you now i have Brutal Insomnia Syndrome.
besides, its almost time for office hours.
;)
jackmac
@Samara Morgan: Why are you picking a fight over a comment about the qualities of young men who lost their lives or were injured. I wasn’t justifying WHY they were in Afghanistan or Iraq. Jeez, you’re an ignoramus. Go troll somewhere else.
Tone In DC
Guys…
S
C
R
O
L
L
P
A
S
T
Tom Levenson
@Samara Morgan: Do me a favor. Go back and read just the passage from my friend. Think about it. Read it again. Read each sentence. Think about the message that accumulates — what we used to say was written between the lines. Don’t post anything for half an hour. Just think.
And then you might see that what is being said, and what I hope is at least a plausible reading of the post, is not what you seem to have found there so far.
Also, too: if you cannot distinguish between the duty of empathy for individual lives with the duty of judgment for social or political decisions, then I can only say you lead an exceptionally impoverished internal life.
I don’t ban; I don’t give time outs. But I do long for a bare minimum of introspection behind each gout of fury.
handsmile
To honor the service and insight of Tom Levenson’s friend, it would be terrific if this thread were not to be hijacked by call-and-response provocation.
On the collective wish to “Bring ’em home,” the current issue of NYRB features a summary review of recent publications by US, European, and Pakistani reporters, scholars and diplomats on the Afghanistan war. Entitled “Afghanistan: The Best Way to Peace” the essay is written by the essential journalist and policy analyst Anatol Lieven.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/feb/09/afghanistan-best-way-peace/?pagination=false
Highly recommended for its finely-grained, clear-eyed analysis.
Yutsano
@Tom Levenson:
THE. CHILD. IS. NEVER. WRONG. In her own mind anyway. She is nothing but a error-prone troll who doesn’t have the guts to live up to her convictions and actually LIVE as a Muslim. She doesn’t think. She has yet to show any capacity for self-reflection. And she blames this on a disease. I call it a cop-out. She’s nothing more than a bored rich spoiled white girl. We should regard her as such.
David Hunt
@Samara Morgan:
I’m going to respond against my best judgment.
1. Yes, we in the U.S. are, in fact lucky to have such dedicated people willing to serve the country. The fact that very good arguments can be made that they shouldn’t still have to be serving it in Afghanistan doesn’t negate the fact that we’re lucky in the their dedication.
2. The main point of my post was simply to express well wishing to the people serving me through my proxy: U.S. Government. If I view my position in this charitably, that is the least that they are owed from me.
To sum up: I can feel grateful for the dedicated service of the military and wish them well while simultaneously thinking that they shouldn’t be asked to serve in that fashion. The even shorter version is that I do, in fact, have a clue.
I’m not going to get dragged into this any further. I’m done with this thread.
Tom, thanks for reminding me how lucky I am to work in a heated office
Paul in KY
@Samara Morgan: He didn’t have a choice, if he wanted to remain in the military.
That’s sort of a feature with the uniformed services.
Mnemosyne
@RossInDetroit:
They’ve tried. From All Quiet on the Western Front to Full Metal Jacket, there have always been Hollywood movies that tried to tell the truth about the war.
I think the last time this came up, the person I was chatting with here and I came to the conclusion that McCarthy and his anti-communist crusade was to blame for censoring what the war was like after WWII, because questioning if that war was actually worth it became a marker for being a dirty commie. There were a whole bunch of movies post-war that questioned the war, like The Best Years of Our Lives and They Were Expendable, but that all got tamped down in the fear of the blacklist.
Yes, as with so many other things wrong with this country, I blame the Republicans.
walden
Look at the Rembrandt picture. That guy has the thousand-yard stare…
Villago Delenda Est
@Samara Morgan:
You do know the difference between the 101st Chairborne and the 101st Airborne, don’t you?
You are every bit as bad as the assholes who cheer the war on at RedState.
Dave
@Mnemosyne:
I had hopes that Saving Private Ryan would do that. But it got co-opted and wrapped in the “Greatest Generation” label. And people forgot they saw probably the most realistic depiction of war on the screen in recent memory.
Paul in KY
@Samara Morgan: We’re not ‘glorifying’ them. He’s talking about a tough mission him & his troops have & we’re comminserating with him. Wallah!
Villago Delenda Est
@David Hunt:
One thing about serving in the military is you learn to really appreciate things like heated offices. And a carpeted walk from your bed to the bathroom, all enclosed inside a building. With hot running water at the turn of a spigot.
Little things like that.
Paul in KY
@Dave: ‘Go Tell the Spartans’ is a good Vietnam War movie.
Villago Delenda Est
@Dave:
The opening sequence of Enemy at the Gates is also very powerful in that sense, along the same lines as the opening sequence of Saving Private Ryan. The sheer terror of your boat on the Volga being strafed by Stukas, and once you get into Stalingrad, being partnered up with the guy with the rifle.
lamh35
thanks for sharing
lamh35
time for a little brevity to replace the troll bashing?
OT, but I’m gonna post his where ever I can, cause when Fox News getsh PWNED by the freakin’ Muppets it should be seen by every one!
Miss Piggy: Fox News Is Not News
Please watch the video. It will make you smile if not laugh out loud like I did.
snailbiscuits
I know this feeling well. I am on my 3rd tour as well. (1 Iraq, 2 Afghanistan) Most days it feels like I never left this place, sometimes I feel like it will never leave me.
Emma
I wish for your friend’s safe return home — and for a time when his life isn’t a throwaway for some rich bastards who want to own the world. When we really value him as our last defense, not our first offense. God bless him.
Yutsano
@lamh35: “If they take what I say seriously they got a real big problem.”
PWNED!!
But you KNOW Miss Piggy is gonna get a countertop inspection.
@snailbiscuits: YOU STAY SAFE. And know you’re cared about back here okay?
Amir Khalid
@Villago Delenda Est:
The little-noticed Green Zone, set in the Iraq war and partly based on a nonfiction book about it, also deserves mention; both for its depiction of the conflict, and for its clear-eyed look at the hollowness of the George W. Bush administration’s WMD claims.
snailbiscuits
Thanks Yutsano, I appreciate it and I will do my best.
Dave
@Villago Delenda Est: That beginning was flat-out terrifying. I find that lately I am watching more films about war that show the human cost in non-action ways. Like Paths of Glory and Fires on the Plain.
RossInDetroit
@Mnemosyne:
I think it’s difficult because movies are first and foremost entertainment. When you put something horrible in the context of 120 minutes of recreation it blunts even the harshest message. That’s not a fault of film makers, it’s a feature they can’t work around.
I’ve read of the DOD gaming the system as well. Requiring veto power over scripts in exchange for access to military locations, equipment and personnel. This ensures that to make a war movie with popular appeal you have to do it under the DOD’s terms. Very restrictive.
Then there’s the tendency to associate depicted acts of bravery and selflessness with the virtuousness and morality of the war itself. Whether or not the intent is to glorify the conflict, the audience’s approval of individual characters affects their feelings toward the war.
artem1s
thanks for posting this.
does anyone know of a decent organization that does pen pal type services with active service members?
seems to be a way to connect with something real that is going on.
kdaug
@snailbiscuits:
I don’t doubt it.
burnspbesq
@snailbiscuits:
Be safe, and know that the folks at home appreciate the sacrifices you are making, even while we question the wisdom of having you over there.
Raven
@snailbiscuits: It never will.
Yevgraf
Here’s the obligatory photo of the CO of the 101st Chairborne…
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/7/2009/10/erickerickson.jpg
snailbiscuits
No matter how much money we pour into this country or the amount of time we are here, I just don’t think it will make a difference. The cultural divide is too great. We came into this without understanding how this place works. You cannot rebuild a society and government without understanding how it works from the ground up. Greed and graft are the name of the game with these politicians in the Afghanistan.
Raven
@RossInDetroit: Pick up Indigenes about Algerians in the French Army in WWII.
Raven
@snailbiscuits: “Greed and graft are the name of the game with these politicians in the Afghanistan.” See the government of the Republic of South Vietnam.
Elizabelle
@snailbiscuits:
Please keep in touch with us, as you can.
snailbiscuits
@Raven I guess things don’t change. These guys who pull the levers of power should have listened to the old saying “never fight a land war in Asia”
@Elizabelle I will post when I can and keep you guys updated on my latest adventures here in Kandahar.
Also, if I messed up the @yournamehere can someone tell me how to do it, me being a newb poster and all.
The Ancient Randonneur
After reading a few of the comments posted I’ve skipped the rest.
I’ve carried a “collection of faces” with me for more than 40 years. Those faces have remained young and fresh. Each time I look in the mirror I am reminded that I was lucky enough to return, have children, see my skin wrinkle and my hair (what’s left of it!) turn grey. I never complain about aging. It’s something I do gladly.
Soonergrunt
@Amir Khalid: Green Zone was excellent.
marybdvm
First, best hopes for Tom’s friend and all military over there, that they come home safely and as soon as possible.
For artem1s: One website that you might check is booksforsoldiers.org
It takes a little bit of effort to become involved. I’ve taken the first steps but haven’t sent books yet so can’t say how well it works or how well it is received by the troops. I’m a Reservist but haven’t heard about this org – came across it by accident. Will send out some books once I’ve gone throught their vetting process.
A little bit of info from their homepage below
JOIN THE FORUM
Meet the troops, get help and find out what it is all about. Click HERE to get a USER ID for the forum. You must be a registered user to view the mailing addresses of the soldiers.
You need a USER ID to use the message boards. (more on getting started)
GET TO SHIPPING
Once you are registered, you will be able to view the requests and send troops books, DVDs, games and relief supplies. You will also have access to our Pen Pal area and Post Card Jamboree. On average our volunteers fill thousands of requests a month. Get started today and get your company, civic group or place of worship involved with supporting our troops.
OPTIONAL: BECOME AN OFFICIAL VOLUNTEER
To comply with the needs of our troops that require operational security (OpSec), some requests are marked “Privacy Requests.” To access these soldier requests, we require our volunteers to fill out an “Official Volunteer” (OV) notarized application and mail it in. Get it HERE.
ruemara
@artem1s: When I had the money to spare, I did AnySoldier boxes to the troops and MilPagan for the needs of pagan soldiers. I still have the letters from the guys in my keepsake book. Currently, I have 2 young friends who are active duty, 1 a marine who just returned from a tour in Afghanistan in redactionville. I’m burnt out with caring because I just want them back home. And then I want them to get the help and support they need. Either way, I recommend those groups if you’d like to do a little moral and physical support for the deployed.
Soonergrunt
@snailbiscuits: You did that fine. There’s a “reply” function that pops up in the lower right hand corner of each posting on a thread. That autolinks back to the post to which you want to reply, but sometimes that function is blocked, particularly due to aggressive firewalls. You can @Somebody if you need. Just add the post number to that so that we can all see which of their posts you are @-ing. For example:
@snailbiscuits, 74: or
@74, snailbiscuits
Also, too, stay well, watch your buddies, and know that you are not alone.
murakami
In one of my classes this semester, the students introduced themselves on the first day. One sixty-ish gentleman introduced himself with “I have a masters in economics and worked in that field for decades. But the defining years of my life were spent as a Navy corpsman carrying the wounded. Why so many of those good people are gone and I’m still here, I’ll never understand.”
And he said this with such a sad and angry tone. Really don’t have words for how sad and angry that it made me. This guy survived Vietnam but essentially the next forty years were spent fighting the wounds that it left, that he could sound so angry and crushed by that old conflict, a conflict which the US did not have to fight in any way shape or form, and a conflict where the deaths and suffering accomplished absolutely nothing in the long term beyond killing some and imprisoning others in this bitter mental cage.
My hope is that Bush will meet a man like this one day and somehow realize exactly what was accomplished by his administration.
THE
Absolutely. Without hesitation.
The US war against terror has been slow, but it continues to gain ground. Al Quaeda is now suffering the most intense attrition. The death of bin Laden is only a small part of it. I see very clearly the great scale of the US success.
However, it seems (as a seperate issue) that the future of Afghanistan will not be influenced much longer by the United States. The United States has decided to withdraw by 2014.
Well, perhaps that is as it should be. The future of Afghanistan is a problem for Asia, and in the final analysis the great powers of Asia must solve it.
I accept that the US has made a decent effort to try to improve the future for the people of Afghanistan. But I also accept that the constellation of forces, and the economic situation, makes that no longer an achievable goal, at a price that the US is willing to pay indefinitely.
As always, the US must act in her own interests, as she sees fit.
Raven
@The Ancient Randonneur: Fuckin A dawg, Fuckin A. welcome home
Kola Noscopy
So fucking stupid.
“I hate, loathe, and despise war. I don’t understand what it’s for. So I’ll make being a part of the madness and killing my entire life’s work.”
I think a lot of these SOLDIER TO THE CORE types just don’t want to be part of boring, day to day society, and would do anything to get away from their wives and families, so making war on innocents half a world away is a better excuse than most.
And gullibles like Levenson make it all sound so NOBLE!
Idiots.
snailbiscuits
@79 Soonergrunt
Thanks for the tip.
I guess the biggest issue is the constant deploying with no time to decompress. For instance I was in Iraq for 15 months when we got back to Germany they told us get ready your going to Afghanistan. Then training cycle spun up and you go right from combat to getting ready for it again. So 11 months later we were landing in Afghanistan. It was tough for a lot of my friends who have have been going non-stop since OIF I.
Paul in KY
@snailbiscuits: That’s not your fault. Just take care of yourself & your men & remember you are a representative of our nation. Best wishes on a successful completion & never going back.
burnspbesq
@Kola Noscopy:
“So fucking stupid”
An apt description of the rest of your comment.
snailbiscuits
@Paul in KY:
Thanks! With the supposed pull out in 2014 this “should” be the last time. Fingers crossed.
Kola Noscopy
@Paul in KY:
What exactly is their job? Playing out Bush and Cheney’s obscene war, that has been Obama’s now for more than three years? What is he “best” at? Being a tool of the Neocons? Perpetuating the MIC? What?
Kola Noscopy
@Samara Morgan:
Samara, you need to post this elsewhere. This is a designated War Fetish/Worship thread.
snailbiscuits
@Kola Noscopy:
Our job is to go where the government tells us to go and to complete the tasks set before us. Maybe if you did your job and worked to elect better politicians we wouldn’t have to be fighting these “obscene wars”
Kola Noscopy
@Phoenician in a time of Romans:
How uncivil and shrill.
Judas Escargot
Is there any way to take up a collection and send these kids a heater?
Or would it be summer by the time it got there?
Kola Noscopy
@David Hunt:
This kind of tripe is just so…retarded. So we hate the wars but love and honor the people who make them possible? These are volunteers, folks. And they keep going back.
So weird when BJ goes all Miltary Fetish…very 1950s. You people haven’t learned a thing in decades of American killing.
Kola Noscopy
@Raven:
If you REALLY can’t see how Levenson’s post glorifies war and “the troops,” and serving any military agenda no matter how atrocious, you are more tool-ish than I thought.
Kola Noscopy
@jackmac:
Hmmm…what do you wish for the people they killed and maimed?
ruemara
@Judas Escargot: You can send a multipurpose one, just a thought. I have one in my bathroom that does either fan or heated fan. I usually would send whatever they specified, so I’d ask for more clarification on what sort of electronics they have out there. Portable handwarmer packs are gold, however.
Dave
@Kola Noscopy:
Are you this fucking stupid or just actively trolling?
These men and women do NOT sign up to go to Iraq or Afghanistan or to advance a neo-con version of Pax America.
They sign up for a variety of reasons. Some more noble than others. But at the end of the day, what they do is risk all they are and will ever be to make sure you and I and everyone else stays safe.
The fact you can’t or won’t distinguish between the citizen-soldier and the asshat politicians that use them like pawns is pathetic.
Kola Noscopy
@Tom Levenson:
Levenson, you bring a refreshing pomposity to war mongering self righteousness. It’s refreshing.
Your friend claims he hates war and killing. Um, why doesn’t he stop taking part in it? I’m guessing he’s not a genius.
Tom Levenson
@Kola Noscopy: Fuck you too.
How’s that for refreshing pomposity?
Oh, and with a rusty pitchfork, also too.
(I try to pitch my remarks to the level of prose style and demonstrated reading comprehension of those to whom they are addressed.)
Kola Noscopy
@Paul in KY:
Did you know there are other, non-military career options in the U.S.? No, really.
Kola Noscopy
@snailbiscuits:
So get out when you return home. Sometimes life’s choices are very difficult. Quit spending your life doing what you claim you don’t want to do.
Paul in KY
@snailbiscuits: If y’all are lucky, your unit could pull out before then. Anyway, you are going to have some wild stories to tell when you return. If you could keep a photo-journal, it might help you to pass the downtime, take your mind off the cold.
Kola Noscopy
@Emma:
Military people have a CHOICE. The choose to enlist. They choose to stay or get out. Why do we keep treating them like helpless children?
Soonergrunt
@Dave: He’s both at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive, and in fact generally complimentary.
Paul in KY
@Kola Noscopy: Staying alive, keeping his sanity in a situation that’s very scary (insurgents who blend in/live with the non-insurgents). Ensuring his men act like U.S. soldiers and not under-reavers of Clan Gonak.
You’d probably be pissing your pants on day 3.
Kola Noscopy
@snailbiscuits:
Maybe you should change jobs. Just a thought…
Paul in KY
@Kola Noscopy: No shit. Maybe when he joined, Chimpy McFuckwit wasn’t CINC.
artem1s
@marybdvm:
thanks to all for the info on contacting the troops
Kola Noscopy
@Dave:
@Dave:
Could you specify the many ways in which I am safer because of the Iraq/afghanistan debacles? Thanks.
The so called citizen soldier CHOOSES to be a tool of the politician, nimrod. It is his or her CHOICE. They are not helpless babies, as you wish to regard them. At least I regard them as thinking adults who hold the solution in their own hands.
Kola Noscopy
@Tom Levenson:
and you claim to be a professor or some such over at MIT? No wonder that place is on the downward slide
Raven
@Paul in KY: You actually talk to this idiot?
Kola Noscopy
@Paul in KY:
and yet, isn’t it amazing how things don’t change, and he’s still in ME/Asia
Soonergrunt
@Kola Noscopy:
THIS is what you claim to be doing? Nice try, but nobody’s buying that bullshit. You are, like all trolls, a jerkass who does everything possible to get people to watch you smell your own taint. You have no redeeming value at all, save your potential as a speed bump, and any salutary effect of your spew is entirely incidental.
snailbiscuits
@Paul in KY:
This is true, I joined in 1996 when Clinton was in office. And it is true I could have left, I chose to stay and in the end that is my choice. I’m not asking for Kola or anyone to feel sorry for me, I chose this. But it is nice to vent about this crap. So on that note it is 2305 here and past my bedtime. Thanks everyone and have a great day/night where ever you are.
Paul in KY
@Raven: I’m sorta bored today. Usually I don’t read its posts. Sorry.
Mnemosyne
@Kola Noscopy:
Oh, look, the pedophile defender is trying to lecture us all about morality again. How adorable.
jake the snake
Wars are fought to benefit the wealthy and powerful by the children of the (mostly) poor and powerless.
Always a good idea to understand the difference between who fights and who they fight for. They only way a war can be justified is if it benefits those who fight it as much as those who it is fought for.
“Surviving is the only glory in war” –Samuel Fuller U S Army 1st Infantry Division.
Raven
@Paul in KY: I wasn’t being critical, just surprised. I just pie his sorry ass and watch while other people try to convince him he’s wrong. Pretty funny actually.
Samara Morgan
@Villago Delenda Est: no im not the same as Redstate.
im willing to admit that the war is an unwinnable, immoral horrorshow that is going to end just like Iraq and Viet Nam.
With nothing but shame and dishonor and humiliation for the troops and for America.
stop glorifying the troops.
praps people will stop volunteering once they get that there IS NO GLORY in being an armed missionary in the service of “regime change”.
Soonergrunt
@Mnemosyne: Maybe he’s a Catholic Priest. Or Rick Santorum.
Mnemosyne
@jake the snake:
Fuller is one of my favorite directors and wrote/directed several of the best (low-budget) war films of all time. The Big Red One is his most “respectable” one, but Fixed Bayonets and The Steel Helmet are more in the true Fuller style.
Kola Noscopy
@Soonergrunt:
Got nothin’, eh?
Samara Morgan
@Tom Levenson: pardon, i just think that saying the 101st anything is sort of tasteless given that is where the Iraqi Rape Squad came from.
Soonergrunt
@Raven: The pie filter doesn’t work in the Admin console.
Which is probably a good thing, on balance.
Kola Noscopy
@Mnemosyne:
Got nothin’ again, I see.
Raven
@Samara Morgan: Go back to bed.
Kola Noscopy
@jake the snake:
Shrill, rude, and non-fellating of the MIC. How dare you!
Raven
@Soonergrunt: You got point, Paul can have slack and I’ll take drag.
Kola Noscopy
@Raven:
You don’t have me “pied,” liar. You read every comment.
Mnemosyne
@Soonergrunt:
Don’t forget, in that initial fiasco he made a point of telling all of us how immoral we all were to be concerned about mere molested children when American troops were killing Afghan children overseas. Because, of course, it’s not possible for someone to be concerned about both things.
Soonergrunt
@Kola Noscopy: Just like I got nothin for beating my head against the wall. Dealing with you on any level is almost as pointless as your existence.
Kola Noscopy
@Soonergrunt:
Still got nothin’ other than insults and war mongering, eh?
How many, killer?
Mnemosyne
@Kola Noscopy:
Oh, I have plenty. I can start quoting your own words back to you again, if you like. That should keep us busy all day
But, hey, if you want to continue to insist that you’re morally superior to us because you’re open-minded enough to think pedophilia is no big deal while all of us small-minded moral scolds think that a 60-year-old having sex with a 10-year-old is a bad thing, be my guest.
Paul in KY
@Raven: I figured nothing I say could derail the Talking Points ™. Just wanted to get my points on the record.
Mnemosyne
@Kola Noscopy:
Fix’d. It’s the only reason I can think of for your hysterical defense of pedophilia: you feel guilty about sexual contact you had with a kid and you’re desperately trying to convince yourself that he probably wasn’t that damaged by it.
chopper
@Kola Noscopy:
have you ever considered that maybe afghanistan wants to be bombed? maybe it likes it! who are we to judge
sanduskythe US.Kola Noscopy
@Mnemosyne:
Wow. Obsessed with man on boy sex, aren’t you, still? Make you wet?
Paul in KY
@Samara Morgan: There’s alot more soldiers in the 101st than the slime you referenced.
I could theoretically disparage Islam due to the atrocities commited by some of its practicioners. I’m bigger then that, though.
Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn
Coworker of mine was talking this morning with a friend on the phone. Someone they both know found out this weekend that that her 19 year old son was killed in Afghanistan. This news came just one day after she’d been informed her 14 year old son had died in an automobile accident.
Words fail.
Kola Noscopy
@Mnemosyne:
Hmmmm…you’re so transparent.
This entire thread is about soldiers at war and you come barging in with your clit swollen up about pedophilia; are you touching yourself?
Mnemosyne
@Kola Noscopy:
So no denial, I see. It would be helpful if you would just admit that you’re a pedophile and stop insisting that every gay man is a pedophile just so you can convince yourself you’re not destroying children’s lives.
Soonergrunt
@Mnemosyne: Well, you can read him and know that he’s one of those guys for whom his beliefs and fantasies about what’s going on over there are his raison d` etre.
You could have a camera crew follow a squad of grunts on missions for a year, and spend every waking moment with them, and seeing them not commit any war crimes would say that it was merely because of creative editing. Hell, he could go out with them for a couple of weeks, and seeing nothing, he’d convince himself that they were sneaking out to rape and murder while he was in the shower.
Kola, is very much like matoko_whatever_the_fuck_she_calls_herself_this_week in that neither of them has any real reason for existence beyond faking empathy with people they’ve never met (who’d just as soon cut their throats as look at them, btw) because they think it really pisses people off. It’s a sad way to go through life, but if that’s what they’ve got, then at least they’re making the best of it. I wonder, more as idle curiosity than anything else, what they’re going to do when the last guys leave AF.
Kola Noscopy
@Mnemosyne:
Won’t be drawn into your weird fetish for male pedophilia. YOu need to see a certified doctor about that. It’s obvious your maniacal obsession is masking an irresistible urge to facilitate the very thing you claim to abhor.
Maybe you can find some good fetish site on the web for women who love man/boy love or something…
Kola Noscopy
@Soonergrunt:
You just keep telling yourself that, killer.
How many? What are you ashamed of? Tell us how many you killed in the name of America, FUCK YEAH!
chopper
@Kola Noscopy:
fake-ass projection is a shitty comeback, son.
cckids
@snailbiscuits: Hey, stay safe. Many, many people here think about you guys every day, tho it doesn’t always show in our ADD media.
We’re ramping up for Girl Scout cookie sales here in So. NV & always collect boxes for the troops. If there is any possible way to send some your way, I’d love to. Your post from the other night has stayed with me. Know you’re cared about, even by strangers who’ve never met you.
Paul in KY
@Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn: That poor woman. Holy shit. I hope she has a family to get her through the worst parts.
Tom Levenson
For the record: I’ve said I don’t ban or give time outs. Partly because I’ve never bothered to raise my pathetic level of blog mechanics knowledge to the point of being able to do so at what is, after all, John Cole’s place. I’m a guest here, and try to comport myself accordingly.
But when a commenter here reduces their contribution to the discussion to a series of sexual and gendered abuse, I’m forced to think twice.
So: you know who you are. Don’t make me learn some intertubes stuff. I’m warning you.
Judas Escargot
@Samara Morgan:
You’ll be sure to pass this little nugget of wisdom on to the Islamists, right?
Hopefully in person.
Tom Levenson
@Samara Morgan: Good on you for taking a pause. Thank you.
I understand your sense of a misbegotten reference. I’ll say that the “101st Chairborne” gibe predates the behavior in Iraq you reference, and in my mind draws its urban slang roots down to Ted Williams derisive dissmisal of the Knights of the Press Box or the Knights of the Keyboard.
But nonetheless, I am grateful that you took some time to collect yourself and give a reasoned account of your distress at the term. I’ll give the unit a new number should I use it again. ;)
chopper
@Samara Morgan:
the 101st airborne is 70 years old this year. its a very well-known unit name, probably one of the most recognized ones in the military. that’s why people use the term ‘101st chairborne’. it’s a pun on a well-known name. god, i don’t know why i have to explain this.
Soonergrunt
@Tom Levenson: The Fighting Keyboarders
The 51st Chickenhawk Division
The White Feather Brigade
The Jonah Goldberg Society
The Red State Trike Force
The potential is literally boundless.
Soonergrunt
@Kola Noscopy: You pick a number and run with it. Since you seem to need it to be the case. Be sure and pick a high number, at least more than 365, so that the average is above one a day. Then you can fantasize about a different one each day and keep it fresh and new for you.
I’m nothing if not generous.
Raven
@Tom Levenson: We called em the Puking Buzzard or the hundred and worst. 25th was the Electric Strawberry.
Paul in KY
@Raven: Some of my ROTC comrades, who had gone thru actual Airbourne school called them ‘jump wings with sissy bar’.
Kola Noscopy
@Soonergrunt:
Seriously: Why don’t you want to say?
Kola Noscopy
@Paul in KY:
And I’m sure there are no homophobic undertones to that at all…
SiubhanDuinne
@artem1s:
My cousin got a pen pal letter from a girl in his home town (someone he’d never met) while he was serving in Vietnam.
They’re celebrating their 41st wedding anniversary next week.
Amir Khalid
@Kola Noscopy:
Maybe killing people, even as a soldier in combat, is nothing that a decent human being wants to brag about.
Raven
@Paul in KY: All our Basic cadre at Ft Campbell in 66 were from the 101st Brigade that was still there. They hated trainees and they hated “legs”.
Raven
@SiubhanDuinne: Say hi for me!
Paul in KY
@Raven: ‘legs’ are the ones who have been thru ‘regular’ jump school, right?
I was in Army ROTC for 3 years, before moving to USAF. Have forgot some of the slang.
SiubhanDuinne
@Raven:
Will do. It’s a lovely story.
Raven
@Paul in KY: No “legs” are what idiots that jump out of airplanes call people who don’t! :)
ps I don’t know why but many of the Airborne and SF people I know are really overweight. Maybe they were drive to hate running.
Paul in KY
@Raven: The ones who jump out of airplanes just thought the 101st rode around in choppers, eating in-flight meals.
Must say that as a USAF vet, I don’t know why anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane…
blondie
The sacrifices we ask of and receive from our service people are terrible.
Soonergrunt
@Amir Khalid: FWIW–I never killed any non-combatant of which I am aware. Point of pride, that.
I don’t answer the necrophiliac’s questions BECAUSE he is a necrophiliac. One mustn’t support the abhorrent if one can avoid such.
@Paul in KY: “Leg” is short for “straight-leg” which refers to the fact that non-jump personnel do not blouse the trousers of the dress uniform (or any uniform back in the day) and also refers to the idea that paratroopers have a permanent bend to the leg (and attendant swagger) from the jumps/landings.
Soonergrunt
@Paul in KY: I never had to worry about being killed in a landing accident–that IS when people get killed, you know-when the plane hits the ground…
Kola Noscopy
@Amir Khalid:
That’s part of my point here: The bizarre mind fucking dichotomy/contradiction in society basically saying “soldiers! you are awesome and honorable and we adore you…but the specifics of what you actually do in “service” to our country are too shameful and appalling to be mentioned in public! We don’t want to hear about that, please! Just go take drugs and drink when you think about those things, please! Bye!”
Consistency is all I ask…
For instance some American Indian tribes and others elsewhere had the integrity to FLAUNT the scalps of the enemies they killed, and OWN what they did. And their people had the consistency to honor the horrible reality of what those scalps represented. Here, not so much.
The mindless AMERICA, FUCK YEAH bullshit on this thread is why the Special Needs Preznit was able to invade Iraq with 90% of the idiot public behind him. I was in the other 10% thank you.
Raven
@Paul in KY: They changed from Airborne to Air Assault.
dance around in your bones
This whole thread makes me sad. Tom, I hope your friend comes back safely; you too, snailbiscuits.
The only two people I know who joined up did so because they could not find a job. One is now in AFG, the other (young woman) is training to become a helicopter pilot. I hope they come home safely, too.
I hate war.
Amir Khalid
@Kola Noscopy:
I doubt that respect for soonergrunt’s military service has anything to do with why you’re demanding to know how many people he has killed. I also doubt that anyone sees “AMERICA, FUCK YEAH bullshit” in this thread but you. As a non-American, I see only respect and caring for the self-identified veterans and active soldiers among the commenters.
Except from you. You seem concerned only about how many they’ve killed, what atrocities they’ve committed, and about feeding a self-righteous disdain for military people to go with your self-righteous disdain for just about everyone else. When you fling poop at Tom Levenson’s soldier friend or snailbiscuits, it’s not about outrage at what they’ve done is it? It’s all about you.
General Stuck
@Paul in KY:
Me too. You know what falls from the sky?, bird shit and fools.
Omnes Omnibus
@Paul in KY:
It’s blast.
debbie
It’s incomprehensible how this can still be going on. After all these centuries, after all these lessons allegedly learned.
I am almost finished reading “The Beauty and the Sorrow” which is about World War I. At some point before some big battle (either Sommes or Ypres), when the expected reinforcements don’t show up, someone suggests to his superior that the operation be postponed. It can’t be, the guy says, because we’ve spent too much time planning it. The subordinate says that there’s no chance of winning without reinforcement, and the response is that it just can’t be helped. And so it goes.
General Stuck
@debbie:
Testosterone. It builds shit, then blows it up.
Benjamin Franklin
@Soonergrunt:
Water landing, near-miss….aviation oxymorons.
Omnes Omnibus
@Benjamin Franklin: Also, reasons to know how to parachute.
Kola Noscopy
@Amir Khalid:
Shocking to see that you’re as shallow an idjit as the other war mongers on this thread.
I never said I “respected” SG’s service, you moron. READ.
As for the rest of your babbling, it’s just more of the same drivel: Name calling and insults to avoid confronting the fact that you can’t have it both ways. You can’t disown and condemn war, or A war, and keep fetishizing and worshiping the people who do the killing and mayhem.
Like anyone else, SG and all grunts have AGENCY. They make choices that put them where they are. And especially after one actual deployment as part of the war machine, I’d say all excuses for bitching and moaning are shot. They love being a part of the military machine more than they hate waging wars of aggression and killing people. So just admit it.
It’s really very simple, despite the constant flag waving obfuscation. They and you, however, should have the balls to own it.
Kola Noscopy
@debbie:
One reason is the type of mindless, no accountability, military worship seen on this thread.
Soonergrunt
@Kola Noscopy: He was calling you out on your faux concern for me or anybody’s welfare, morals or anything else, and pointing out that you use it as an excuse to sniff your taint in public you stupid bastard.
READ.
Paul in KY
@Soonergrunt: Thank you for the definition.
Paul in KY
@Soonergrunt: It’s not the falling, it’s the stopping :-)
Paul in KY
@Omnes Omnibus: Have heard that. If I have to jump, I will. But I’m not an adrenalin junkie.
Paul in KY
@debbie: There were generals (on both sides) who should have been executed for gross deriliction of duty/murdering troops thru stupidity.
debbie
@ Paul in KY:
I’m also reading “Into the Silence,” about George Mallory and other mountain climbers/WWI survivors and how they dealt with their experiences. Generals can only be heartless.