Here’s Ellen DeGeneres pushing back [warning: autoplay video] on the “Million Moms” (it’s actually 40,000) who want to have her removed as JC Penney’s new spokesperson. Penney’s must have known that they’d get flack from some haters when they adopted an openly gay person to sell their stuff, so I assume this was a calculated move to get rid of their image as the place where old ladies go to shop for granny panties. But, even if hiring Ellen is a bit “edgy”, Penny’s is still a solid, middle-class, suburban brand — they weren’t going to do something that would cause a real upset, so it’s worth taking a look at how Ellen handled this.
I’m sure Ellen’s response was gamed out in advance when she was hired, so it’s interesting to note that both she and Penney’s are comfortable issuing a pretty solid fuck you to the haters. In other words, they’re betting that the Republican caucus goers who voted for a bigot last night are such a powerless and financially irrelevant minority that they can be insulted on national television.
jibeaux
I was going to give Penney’s a go anyway, since they’re changing their pricing to be transparent rather than making you cut a coupon and go during a certain window of time and say a magical incantation while turning your foot in a circle to get a good price, but now I definitely will. Spite is an excellent motivator for me.
YoohooCthulhu
That being said, the Ellen debacle DOES play into the worst conspiracy theories of these nuts, which is that corporations and “hollywood” are trying to push gay people down our throats and ruin true ‘Merkin morality.
Mnemosyne
I’m still trying to figure out on what planet Ellen would be considered “edgy.” The whole point of JC Penney picking her is that she’s pretty much 100 percent safe. Middle-aged moms and housewives love her, and they don’t particularly care that she’s married to a woman.
It’s like saying that picking Will Smith for the lead of your action movie is “edgy.”
Violet
I love Ellen. Her list of her values at the end, things like kindness, treating people they way you want to be treated, equality, helping those in need and so forth is really powerful.
rb
on what planet Ellen would be considered “edgy.”
Missouri, maybe? Santorum’s big there, apparently.
Butch
I don’t understand why you’d describe Ellen’s classy response as “insulting.”
curiousleo
Someone at a party told me that the new Penney’s marketing guy use to work for Apple marketing and he’s behind the new pricing (ie not having diff prices on the wknd due to sales all the time) and other brand identity changes. I haven’t cared enough to fact check that party info.
But if you’re right about JCPenney’s & Ellen already having a plan w/ respect to any potential push back, that might lead credence to the “the guy use to work at Apple” since they seem to be rather decent at the marketing.
Did CoverGirl get similar push back when Ellen was first in their ads? I don’t remember a bru-ha-ha.
(eta: got stuck in moderation b/c I can’t type my email address properly. my bad)
Doc Sportello
It looks like Ellen was hired after Ron Johnson left Apple to take the reins at J.C. Penney. Not sure what that means, but her hiring is his decision — she’s not a hold-over.
mistermix ... World Peace
@Butch: My point is that the people she called “bullies” would consider it an insult. And corporations don’t take action that might offend potential customers lightly. I agree that her response was great, but the Million Moms aren’t going to see it that way.
Mnemosyne
Also, too, I think Fred Clark had one of the best commentaries on this almost a week ago:
Guster
At least for me, MM, that actually links to some Jennifer Anniston thing.
PIGL
@Violet: I’ve never paid Ms. DeGeneres much attention until this very minute, but I was also impressed by her straightforward expression of all that is good and true. Plus also, dance. You’d have to be one sad individual not to like and admire Ellen on sight.
Good luck to the “Million” Moms. Where can they possibly shop now?
PIGL
@Mnemosyne: don’t you get it? It’s the slightly spiky hair, with neither pony tail nor bangs.
mistermix ... World Peace
@Guster: Look for the one that says “Ellen Peek 2/8” on it, that’s the video.
I tried to embed it but it started autoplaying a commercial.
Violet
@Mnemosyne:
That’s pretty accurate. Ellen is incredibly likeable. There may be a few fundie types who won’t shop at Penny’s because of this, but they’re so small as to be inconsequential to the bottom line.
Martin
JCPenny’s new CEO (Ron Johnson) is the guy who created the Apple Stores and ran them in far and a way the most popular and profitable (per store) retail chain in the country. Prior to that he was the guy that rebranded Target.
Until he gets some real results (or the lack thereof) under JCPenny to measure his performance there, I wouldn’t bet against his instincts. At Target he changed the chain from a semi-rundown Kmart also-ran where grandma might go, to a bright, colorful, modern store that young people were happy to go to and it became the go-to store for most young families. He steered the chain headlong into the growing demographic that would be lifelong shoppers.
He did precisely the same thing with the Apple Stores, dumping the old CompUSA notions of what a computer store should be (geek focused) and focused it also around young people that just wanted to buy their shit without hassle and get some useful help when they desired it – the brick and mortar equivalent to no-hassle online shopping. Apple Stores don’t even have cash registers. There’s no checkout area.
Ellen plays right into his pattern. JCP updated their logo (very smart, flag inspired with JCP). They’re dumping the never-ending sale bullshit and going to very simplified pricing, and they’re very, very clearly transitioning from being mom’s department store to being mom’s daughter’s department store. In trying to make that transition, you need to draw distinctions, and that Ellen being gay is more likely to resonate with your kid than with you, is precisely the goal. JCP should be viewed by the GOP as a little canary in the coal mine – even tried and true US suburban institutions know that the GOP is out in the weeds on social policy.
I wouldn’t bet against Ron – at all. He redefined retail while at Apple. It just hasn’t fully taken hold yet. He’s a bold guy and he’s going to do bold things with JCP.
mary
Ellen is a game-changer. You may recall, her situation comedy (in the 1980’s? 1990?) was cancelled because there was a boycott against her when she came out. I have been surprised that often the same women that self-righteously boycotted her show before are now big fans. Please don’t underestimate how much good she has done by altering public perceptions. I think Oprah is the same kind of figure. A black woman on TV everyday who endeared herself to millions of other women. She changed perceptions and in doing so made it easier for other black women.
Villago Delenda Est
@Violet:
Well, they’re a lot like the values of that socia1ist Jesus dude.
Probably why Mammon-worshipers are so opposed to her.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: She’s a spokesmodel for L’Oreal. Also. Too. I guess no French make-up for the Million Moms.
bemused
@PIGL:
I’m in hysterics picturing Ellen in a Michelle Duggar do.
Rosalita
@PIGL:
Let ’em go to Walmart
kth
Hasn’t that ship already sailed, in Ellen’s case? She’s already hugely popular, and her show has sponsors that the Million Moms Minus 900,000 could easily have targeted for years. Penney’s didn’t pluck her from obscurity to add some edge to their marketing; rather, the fact that she is widely known, accepted, and admired is why they hired her.
Violet
@Yutsano:
Well, it is French, so a boycott is right in their wheelhouse.
PIGL
@bemused: I don’t know what that means ™ but I am glad you are amused.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Guster: I had that happen too… when I closed the Anniston tab and reclicked it loaded the right video. Are you in Canada by any chance?
JonathanW
I can’t support anyone who wears tennis shoes with suits. When will Ellen stop attacking our traditional fashion values?!?
Martin
@Mnemosyne: She’s edgy to JCPs current customer base, which is pretty old. It’s a recurring problem with retail that once they get success with a demographic, they tend to change along with the demographic, rather than risk trying to capture a new demographic. Mainly that’s due to the very low margins in retail – it’s a tough business. If your sales fall off even a bit, you run out of money to do anything, so retailers are notoriously risk-adverse.
Ron is able to do this because in some ways JCP has hit bottom. They’ve turned up the sale/discount cycle to 11, and it’s not boosting revenues. Their demographic is quite literally dying. Retail is still largely in the shitter, but JCP figured out that they were fucked before they ran out of assets or goodwill. They brought in a guy that represented everything they wanted to become and they’ve pretty much given him permission to wreck the place. I think it was a fantastic hire on their part and I think it will be quite good for US retail if he succeeds. He’s in a position to take risks for a while. The sector needs it. US retail is a mess. It’s pretty much Costco, Amazon, Apple, and everyone else who can’t figure out which way the world is spinning. It badly needs a shakeup.
mistermix ... World Peace
@Martin: This is spot-on.
MariedeGournay
Ellen’s a sweetie.
Betty Cracker
@mary: Agreed. I’m old enough to remember when hardly any public figure was out of the closet. It took a hell of a lot of courage for Ellen to come out, and she has made a real difference. I admire her very much.
schrodinger's cat
@Rosalita: To shop for clothes? With a few exceptions, clothes at Walmart are remarkably bad. Our local Walmart is so sad that I just don’t go there anymore.
Mary Jane
A quick look at OMM’s Facebook page proves it’s just a front for AFA. The folks over there hate everyone, with the exception of George W.
Breezeblock
I’m glad I bought a bunch of suits at Penney’s recently. Alas, if I hadn’t filled out the closet, I’d go back again sooner.
slag
But wait a second. Everybody knows that the first rule of business is to only do things that expand your market base. And everybody knows that the only way to do that is to do whatever the bassackwards portion of this country tells you to do. Has JC Penny learned nothing from the masterminds at the Komen foundation?
Mary Jane
@Martin: I question that demographic generalization. I regularly shopped at JCP when my children were small; it has a good selection of reasonably priced kids clothes. That department always had the longest checkout lines in the store.
I think Ellen is well-liked by 30 and 40-something moms who don’t give a hoot that she loves another woman. But I live in California, not Missouri, so what do I know.
Rosalita
@schrodinger’s cat: If they won’t go to JCP because of Ellen, then I think they deserve socks that unravel the first time you wash them. My local Walmart is disgusting too. Won’t go near it. Even the parking lot is shitty.
Yutsano
@Betty Cracker: “Ellen Gets A Puppy” (the secret name for her coming out episode) was so controversial at the time it almost didn’t run. Then the initial response was huge. “Ellen” went downhill afterwards because really the writing got terrible. But it was a good place to peak. And if not for that courage, gay characters would have never left soaps. How far all that has come.
beltane
J.C. Penny may already be changing. I’ve always shopped there for children’s clothes because I find the quality to be exceptionally good for the price (Walmart is like dumpster diving except more expensive), but I was recently surprised to hear my 16 year old son express a preference for Penny’s over Kohl’s on account of the “coolness” factor of the clothing. This was kind of a shock for me since I associate J.C. Penny with my grandmother.
Also, teenagers today tend to be dramatically less homophobic that we Gen Xers were. If the so-called Million Moms want to make a big stink about Ellen, they will end up providing free advertising to J.C. Penny.
gelfling545
Were those people somehow under the impression that JCPenney was unaware of Ms. DeGeneres’ orientation? That they would be shocked & horrified & rush to sever ties with her?
Trinity
I haven’t shopped at Penney’s in years.
I will be dropping in there this weekend. I need a dress for a party next weekend.
The Dude Abides
This article is about JCPenney, right? Not some company I’ve never heard of called JCPenny?
The Other Chuck
@mary:
Mid 90’s. There was no real boycott (when has a TV show boycott ever worked?), they just didn’t renew the show when coming out of the closet didn’t drag the show’s ratings out of the basement.
kdaug
And then, in a year or two, it’ll be out of fashion, and no one will fucking care.
As it should be.
Martin
@slag:
Yes, well, much of Apple’s success is due to not listening to the MBAs. Thankfully, Ron doesn’t seem to listen to them either.
Mark S.
Is it 1998? There are actually people protesting Ellen?
Marcellus Shale, Public Dick
what will be real interesting to see, is who if anyone tries to pick up the disgruntled former jcp-fundie nexus of consumer wholesome goodness.
come and see the sanctimonious side of sears?
reflectionephemeral
It seems to me this fits in with DougJ’s post a month or so ago about changing what it means to be a Real True Patriotic American. (I think he was quoting Republican op-ed writer James P’s argument that Mitt Romney’s tax rate is too high). For a generation or more, Democrats have come from the defensive crouch perspective, with the right aided and abetted by the centrist MSM.
Do you remember a few years ago, “Things About Ellen” was the category on Family Feud, and after “dancing” and “talk show” and whatnot were taken, some old white guy offered, “She doesn’t like her country very well.” That mentality, rooted in the Southern Strategy and beyond, has been taken to be What Real Americans Think And The Left Dissents At Their Peril for about ever.
I’m not sure we’re there yet, but it just might be that the calm, cool, collected Pres. Obama, who cares about America enough to try to implement rational policies, will come to be regarded as the Reagan to Romney’s Mondale (or Santorum’s George Wallace).
Don’t quite have my argument in order here, am gonna have to put together a post on this later. Dunno if I can make a strong, data-backed argument, or if it’s all going to be straws in the wind.
geg6
@Martin:
Could not agree more with your analysis of what is happening at JCP. Myself, I have always shopped JCP because I got good value and good structural pieces for work. Just went in the other day in response to the flyer for the new look and concept and I am more than impressed. They did a total re-design to the local store (just since Christmas!) to reflect the look of the flyer and the idea of having totally transparent pricing is just great. Don’t get me wrong, I love a sale, but I find the best ones are online. In a brick and mortar store, I just want to know what it costs and, if it’s in my range and something I like, I’ll buy it.
Jay C
Isn’t that basically what they have already ended up doing?
Danny
One million moms complaints form for bringing offending television to their attention.
Ten minute mail
polyorchnid octopunch
Heh, interesting… I tried finding one million moms on crackbook and can’t… too many results coming back from people dissing the one million moms.
Gretchen
Love “where old ladies shop for granny panties”. And I say that as an old lady.
harlana
i like Penney’s! i mean, all clothes these days are crap compared to those made when we made all our stuff in the USA (ask me about my 25 year old t-shirts sometime, and the sweatshirt i bought at Walmart back when they used to trumpet “Made in the USA” – all still holding up after much abuse and countless launderings over the years) so their merch is no better than that of others in their market – but their prices are reasonable and i have an easier time finding “simple” stuff (things w/o fru-fru, frills, ruffles and such that are all the rage but look awful on me) anyway, good for them.
harlana
these are also the women who had a fit over a Ben & Jerry’s ice cream flavor called Schweddy (sp?) Balls
harlana
i’m not into perky types, so i don’t even want to like Ellen but i find myself liking her in spite of myself
catpal
@Violet: yep.
“I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you want to be treated and helping those in need.”
Ellen said it so well.
I am going to repeat those words to every Hater I encounter.
Brachiator
@mistermix … World Peace:
What do Republican caucus goers have to do with Penney shoppers?
And it’s not that they were insulted or even discounted. They were mocked, Ellen style. And the hater’s own FB page was countered by people, even ordinary Real Traditional Americans(tm) who love Ellen and embrace the ghey.
@Martin:
Huh? How old is old? Back in 2009, the company media director noted:
As far back as 2006, they started using mobile and the Internets to try to stave off the general decline of brick and mortar merchants.
And even though former Apple guy Ron Johnson promises accelerated innovation, JCP was doing interesting stuff like moving their entire catalog to Face Book, in December 2010, before Johnson came on board.
Johnson is continuing a direction that other JCP execs started, not doing something entirely new.
bemused
Recently, there was a catalog in my mail that wasn’t familiar. Took a closer look and was surprised it was JCP but with a brand new look. Definitely not the old JCP. I flipped through it and immediately thought there was some very smart marketing going on.
Brachiator
@Martin:
Crap. Previous comment got moderated. Lemme try revised standard version.
How old is old? Back in 2009, the company media director noted:
As far back as 2006, they started using mobile and the Internets to try to stave off the general decline of brick and mortar merchants.
And even though former Apple guy Ron Johnson promises accelerated innovation, JCP was doing interesting stuff like moving their entire catalog to Face Book, in December 2010, before Johnson came on board.
JCP has been more forward thinking than the typical department store.
Patricia Kayden
Why do conservatives think it’s okay to tell a private business who to hire? If JCP wanted to hire Bozo the Clown as its spokesperson, that’s its business.
koalaholik
I actually went to Penney’s last week-end specifically because they refused to be intimidated by the haters. I have always liked their linens but I actually found that they seem to have upgraded the rest of their products. I found a really nice purse and some cute costume jewelery. I also made sure the clerk knew that I was there in support of their stand against the Million (?) Mom morons
PurpleGirl
@Mary Jane: For the most part I never shopped Penny for clothes — the merchandise for a larger women was tacky, not even a little fashionable and often ill-fitting. I’m 60 and large, I want well-made clothes and not dowdy ones. I mainly buy (when able) at Coldwater Creek. If Penny’s changes some of their styles, in addition to hiring Ellen, I may go back to see their merchandise. I didn’t watch her sit-com show and I don’t watch the talk show but I like how she’s conducted the various changes in her career and her openness about being gay. I respect her a lot.
gex
@YoohooCthulhu: They were going to think that anyway. You just do what you want to/need to do and deal with the assholes along the way.
shortstop
It’s Penney with two Es.
Love how Ellen’s usual low-key charm and total lack of (justifiable) spite defangs bigots’ venom. Her response was pitch-perfect, although I imagine JCPenney could have done without the t-shirts and crew socks jokes as it’s trying to sex up its image. ;)
roc
@Mark S.: Yeah, well, it’s an election year. So all the social issues that fire up your base but don’t quite fire up the opposition are back up for discussion.
e.g. planned parenthood, social services, gay marriage, voter fraud, etc.
shortstop
So within a seven-day period, right-wing religious zealots have destroyed Komen’s brand, inspired more than 3 million in contributions for Planned Parenthood, and built a brand-new customer base for JCPenney. I don’t think this is working out quite as they planned.
Mnemosyne
@Yutsano:
I actually used to watch “Ellen” even before she came out when the co-stars were Jeremy Piven and Joely Fisher. They handled the actual coming-out and the few episodes after that pretty well, but IMO one of the big mistakes they made was making the Bruce Campbell character the bigot who drops her as a friend after she comes out. I’m guessing he was already on a limited contract, but they had such great chemistry as friends and the show went very flat once he was gone. I mean, I realize that coming out is not always fun but, Jesus, people, you’re a sitcom, not a drama! Make it funny!
The Other Bob
@PIGL:
They are already shopping at Walmart, which is why this isn’t a real threat.
Mike in NC
So, Ellen is basically the anti-Callista?
Lee
@beltane:
I have a 12 and 15 year old. The 15 year old did not believe me when I told her some people have issues with people being gay. When I convinced her about it, her only response was “That is the stupidest thing ever”.
I don’t think it even registers with them that it is out of the ordinary.
I love to point out that our kids will be shamed by the anti-gay protests just as we (and/or our parents) are shamed by the racial protests like this
Betty Cracker
@shortstop: LMAO! Good points!
Mnemosyne
Also, too, it would be really nice if Penney’s could re-position themselves to replace the mid-range mass market retailers that we used to have in So Cal like Robinsons and The May Company. Everything was eaten by the Macys borg until pretty much the only shopping options are low-end (Target) and high-end (Macys, Nordstroms, Bloomingdales). So having a mid-range option again would be really, really nice.
Satanicpanic
The Penney’s I go to could use a facelift. It’s always been a good deal- Old Navy, Walmart, Target, etc. might beat them on price, but Penney’s is a much better value. It’s just such a drab place I try to get in and out before I get infected with the 80’s.
Betty Cracker
@Lee: I have a 13-year-old, and we live in an area that is lousy with wingnut fundamentalists, so homophobia is still more the norm than not, at least among adults. But even the fundies’ kids think it’s stupid.
jibeaux
@shortstop: Hee hee. I’m going tonight. My daughter needs a party dress, and I think I’ll just look for myself while I’m there. Moms In The Targeted Demographic REPREFUCKINGSENT!
rikryah
really? picking on Ellen?
gwangung
Heh. I remember the wailings and lamentations when Obama identified Reagan as a change agent.
Emoprogs have been with us for a long time….
Martin
@Brachiator:
Target. Not actual. Don’t get me wrong – JCP has been working toward this goal for a while. It’s just that they’ve been failing as much as they’ve been succeeding. Facebook appeals to young people, but timing your buying to their sales doesn’t, so as much headway as they might have made with the former, they lost more with the latter as they did more of the sale business. JCP wouldn’t have gone after Ron if they didn’t know where they wanted to go – I think they’re in quite good shape about what they envision what JCP should look like in 5 years, in terms of demographics and how consumers view the store – and they deserve a lot of credit for just getting that – a lot of places don’t.
But getting there is hard and the details of what needs to change, what conventional thinking needs to go out the window needs to change as well. So, I agree that they are forward looking, but they’ve failed on execution, and they weren’t forward looking enough to look like a new retailer. They looked like the old retailer that was doing good things around the edges, but not at their core. They need to change their core – they need to be brave enough to kill some sacred cows – and that’s what Ron was hired to do. Pissing off part of your demographic to lead to a better place is hard, but it’s a risk you have to take.
mdblanche
@Patricia Kayden: Ellen has icky girl parts and does even ickier things with them. That takes precedence.
tamied
Excellent post and discussion! Thank you all.
slag
@Satanicpanic: About 6 months ago, I went to Penney’s for the first time since I was a kid. Before I went, I didn’t even know where one was–I had to do research. It was all very exciting, but I have to say that you’re right about the interior decor. It felt very dated to me. Still had what I was looking for though and gave me surprisingly good, comprehensive service. If I ever have to shop for that kind of thing again, I’d probably go back.
patrick II
It’s quite a talent to remain so likable while slicing and dicing your haters. Evisceration with a smile. Just think of how unlikable the other side is as they talk about things they don’t like. Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, O’Reilly are so unpleasant, ugly and mean. Helen can be funny and seem gentle as she gets the job done. Helene’s ability reminds me of what Obama did to Trump at the correspondent’s dinner, kindly smile, sharp blade.
“friendly” mocking with a serious purpose.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne:
Oh, and Bruce Campbell is frankly the wrong guy to cast as a bigot, because he’s a personable type even in the Living Dead movies.
Pococurante
@curiousleo:
It’s true.
I work for JCP. Diversity is not just corporate double speak here. Any company that puts Martha Stewart and Ellen DeGeneres side by side isn’t exactly a wilting violet. Additionally we’ve just had a regime change here, with ex-Apple folks who again really believe in diversity not to mention taking advantage of social trends to sell stuff.
(This time next year many JCP stores are going to look strangely like Apple stores. Or not so strangely since our new CEO is the guy who invented the Apple store concept and pushed it with Jobs’ initial opposition.)
Martin
@Patricia Kayden:
Because they should. That’s how the free market works and the left would do a bit better to learn from it (and they have been – that’s how we got Glenn Beck off the TV).
The free market means that consumers can opt out of the stuff they don’t like – so they can tell JCP they don’t like their spokesperson by refusing to shop there. That’s fine – we shouldn’t be afraid of that. We should embrace it. Don’t like Dominos funding pro-life groups, stop buying their pizza (and a lot of liberals do exactly this). Don’t like the head of Whole Foods going after Obama’s economic policies, then stop shopping there. If Susan G Komen doesn’t want to fund Planned Parenthood for bullshit reasons, then stop giving them money and buying their pink ribbons.
If corporations and charities don’t want the repercussions, then they should stop getting involved in politics. Period. In this case, I think JCP is inviting the repercussions, though. They may lose 40,000 uptight customers that are probably more work than they’ve ever been worth (anyone who’s worked retail probably knows what I mean here) but they’ll gain 40,000 awesome customers in their place. Win!
shortstop
Slightly OT, and directed at the Chicago folks here: Is Sears on Lawrence not the most depressing store in the entire universe? I went to the reasonably cheerful State Street location to get replacement vacuum parts just so I wouldn’t feel suicidal seeing the Lawrence store’s blinky yellow lighting, 1970s-style displays and uniformly bummed staff.
Mary Jane
@PurpleGirl: Agreed that their womens clothing (of any size) leaves much to be desired. The buyers need to get on that. I recently picked up two comfy flannel shirts for myself from the young men’s dept. Great selection and price, $9.99. Hell, that’s almost what Goodwill charges for used stuff.
I’ve always liked Ellen, as does my 14 year old daughter. As far as I know, the teen hasn’t given a moment’s thought to Ellen’s orientation. It just doesn’t matter to them.
Mary Jane
@Mnemosyne: #72. Ouch. That reminded me of how much I liked May Co., then Robinsons-May. You’re absolutely right that its departure left a gap.
Steve
I haven’t shopped at Penney’s in ages, but they of course have a store at my local mall. Next time I need to buy a coat or something, I think I’m going to go there, just because of this story. I have nothing against their brand, but it’s pretty unlikely I would have done so otherwise.
geg6
@Mary Jane:
I’m finding it hard to believe that Beaver County has more modern and up-to-date Penney’s than most across the country. That’s just mind-boggling. I get really cute stuff from their Bisou Bisou and Nicole Miller lines. And their Ambrielle bras are my favorites.
Pococurante
@Martin:
We were under pressure from new board members who wanted to strip the company.
The classic approach: break out the cash pile and real estate to a separate entity, make the company sales pay to rent the locations back and pay expense on the over leveraging used to buy the stock… until the main company collapses under bankruptcy. You know, like Bain Capital.
Fortunately the old board fought back, and it wound up being a good thing because it broke the old school thinking that was holding us back.
Steve
Some people have a hard time understanding how Ellen could ever be considered edgy – and I admit, in a rational universe it’s kind of hard to process. Fortunately, I keep a bigoted Facebook friend around so I have someplace to go for the other perspective. This was his comment on the AFA boycott:
Of course, Ellen is about as “blatant” with her sexuality as I am for wearing a wedding ring. But there’s no arguing with these people. Just be happy demographics, and the tolerance of the younger generation, are making their opinions more and more irrelevant with every year.
slag
@shortstop: My neighborhood FedEx/Kinko’s could probably give your Sears store a run for its money in the Saddest Place on Earth competition. As soon as I walk into that place I want to turn around and run (not walk) back out the door.
Rita R.
This OMM thing is just so bizarre. It’s not like Ellen is some kind of leading spokesperson for gay rights — she’s an entertainer who just happens to be gay and doesn’t try to hide it. Correct me if I’m wrong because I rarely watch her show, but although I know she’s spoken out on gay-related issues, such as against bullying of gay kids, she doesn’t focus her program on them. It’s bascially just your standard daytime talk show.
So…what OMMM seems to be saying is that Ellen is offensive to them as a JC Penney spokesperson not because of what she says or does, but simply because she EXISTS as a gay person and isn’t ashamed of it. How freaking backward are these people, and how can standing by Ellen, who moms across America love, do anything but help JCP?
Mnemosyne
@Mary Jane:
I still have several cashmere cardigans that I bought from Robinsons-May almost 10 years ago — none of the other stores around make anything like them, which is just a nice, basic cardigan in pretty colors. Macys used to make them, but not anymore.
One of the biggest mistakes that the big retailers made about 10-15 years ago was to chase the teen market (Gap, I’m looking at you). They couldn’t keep up with the teen retailers like Forever 21 or H&M, but they blew off their original market that wanted basic classics. I’m really, really hoping that JCP’s game plan is to go back to offering classics at a reasonable price.
Rita R.
@Steve:
Your “bigoted Facebook friend”: “I wouldn’t have a problem with her if she wasn’t so blatant and over the top with her sexuality.”
How? By having a short haircut and not wearing dresses? Did she and Portia get it on stage center on Ellen? Was there a lesbian orgy on the show that I somehow missed?
These people live in some alternative, twisted reality.
shortstop
@geg6:
Good to know. I was thinking of trying one because they have a certain style I’m having trouble finding at VS, etc.
ETA: “Style” as in “a specific type for wearing in specific situations,” not as in “Ambrielle bras are prettier than Victoria’s Secret’s,” ’cause they ain’t.
slag
@Martin:
Yep. In spite of his MBA, Guy Kawasaki was able to see this long ago. I’m surprised that MBAs still get jobs in this country. Or, more accurately, I would be surprised if I didn’t have such a cynical view of our corporatocracy.
feebog
Mrs. Feebog does most of the Christmas shopping, but I got tasked with trying to find something for our two oldest grandsons, both teenagers. I actually found some pretty good stuff at JCP. The salesperson was also super helpful and even though I consider shopping the equivilant to malaria, the experience was pretty cool.
Satanicpanic
@slag: It’s never stopped me from buying what I need therebut it does stop me from hanging around and making impulse purchases, so I suspect it does hurt their bottom line. Their store really sticks out at the mall I got to because the rest of the mall has been updated, but their building is straight out of the 70’s. I assume ownership of their building is separate from mall ownership. OT but I never understood why malls were built that way.
shortstop
@Rita R.: Years ago, when my nephews were small, I mentioned that I wanted to invite some friends, two fellows who’d been together longer than my sister and her husband had been married, to Thanksgiving dinner at our house. My sister, who grew up in the same house I did with the same nonhomophobic parents, got visibly agitated and said, “I don’t think the kids are ready for that.”
“Ready for what?” I asked. “Our friends are going to be eating dinner, not having sex on the table.” She just kept shaking her head. As it turned out, our friends decided to go out of town that weekend, so the big dramatic event she feared never happened.
Now my nephews are young men without bigotry, which I suspect has more to do with their friends than with my sister and her husband. Incidentally, my sister has chilled and opened her mind, too, and probably doesn’t even remember this. But I do, and it makes me wince every time I think of it.
Bmaccnm
Late again, but I echo the others above. I hadn’t set foot in a JC Penney in 25 years, but I needed new shoes, and I bought ’em at Penney’s last night. I didn’t see many clothes I’d wear, but they do have T-shirts in every conceivable color. JCP is just a few steps off the MAX for me, so I’ll be going there again.
Gin & Tonic
@patrick II:
I see where BillO came out in support of Ellen and dissed the Million Mom club last night on his show. If you can’t get BillO, you’re not doing so well among your target demo.
slag
@Satanicpanic:
Oh my god. It was during that same shopping trip when I went to what I think is typically considered a standard mall for the first time in a really long while. Just getting out of the car made me feel dizzy. All I remember was a desert of parked cars that stretched as far as I could see. It took me quite some time to orient myself–I had no idea where I was supposed to walk or even in which direction I was supposed to walk. As I said before, it was very exciting. But holy shit…mall design…
Rita R.
@shortstop:
The good thing is that the public mindset has shifted so much on this over the past couple of decades, just like your sister’s. But I guess OMM shows there are still those kicking and screaming as they refuse to move into the modern world.
Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods
And now I have to find a reason to shop there. Believe me, I will…
But is this REALLY news, that Penney’s lurves tehgheys (and vice-versa)?
Bmaccnm
One other thing. The shoppers at the JCP family shoe section were America- 3 Latina sisters trying on boots, 2 Russian Orthodox women buying school shoes for their children, 2 White guys buying shoes for their obviously blue-collar work, and me, who blew out her shoes nondeminationally, while working with a faith-based NGO in a Somali IDP camp. Suck It, (1,000,000-960,000) Moms.
geg6
@shortstop:
Not so much, but they aren’t ugly and they come in every color under the sun.
What they are is comfortable (in complete contrast to VS, which makes the world’s most uncomfortable bras ever, especially if you are not a 32AA). And long wearing. I have a couple that I’ve had for 6 or 7 years. And, for me, bra years are pretty much the same as dog years.
Phoebe
This is so boneheaded that I suspect someone at JCP started the Million Moms thing, just to up their publicity and revenue. I don’t think the 40 thousand fb members are all plants, just useful idiots who took the bait and gave it enough credibility. This is nothing but win for JCP. Then again maybe not: what if someone tries to interview the original mom? It might all come undone from its own success, as in “Meet John Doe”.
Elizabelle
@shortstop:
I love it! And thank you, internet and social media, for helping to make it possible.
PS: that’s some creative destruction that I can believe happened within seven days.
Phoebe
And, also, I hate it when some group calls themselves “Moms” to give the impression that they are concerned guardians of common sense and morality.
For one thing, it makes us all sound like boring scolds (with the ugly jeans), but mainly, it isn’t even true in the positive sense. I’m a foster mom. I’m a foster mom only because somewhere there is a “mom” who is flippety honk honk and shouldn’t have custody of crabgrass. She is not the only one. Fuck moms, is what I’m trying to say here.
Tim I
Bill O’Reily excoriated the Million Moms for their attack on Ellen. They wouldn’t even go on his show, but he got some other right-wing bigot to come on.
Bill called this blackmail and a violation of JC Penny’s rights as a quasi-person. Ellen is like Oprah – way too beloved by middle-class women to be messed with.
shortstop
@geg6: I’ll give them a try, thanks.
I had the perfect/perfect-fitting thing from VS, but since I really liked it, federal law required that it be immediately discontinued. The same law applies to lipstick shades, shoes and Trader Joe’s products.
shortstop
@Phoebe: That made me laugh. And good point.
schrodinger's cat
@shortstop: That seems to happen to me too. Have you tried Body by Victoria, very comfortable and practically invisible under clothes.
Steve
@Rita R.: It’s a double standard they’re completely unconscious of. If a gay person talks about their partner in the exact same way a typical straight person talks about their spouse, they’re being “blatant” about their sexuality, they’re “rubbing it in your face.” It doesn’t make any sense.
One of the funny side effects of having Newt Gingrich in the race is that every other Republican takes great pains to mention, in like every other sentence, that they’ve been happily married to their wife for like 35 years or whatever. They keep saying it over and over to subtly remind people of Newt’s issues. If the winger standard were honestly applied, though, this would mean that Romney and the others are being “blatant and over the top about their sexuality” and should stop.
One reason for the double standard is that for these people, heterosexual relationships are about love and companionship and all those other things in addition to sex, while they can’t conceptualize a homosexual relationship as being about anything other than sex, sex, sex. So if I talk about my wife, that means I’m a devoted family man. If I talk about my same-sex partner, that means I like anal sex with guys. See how that works?
28 Percent
So in one week, Komen backs down and Penneys stands tall… I don’t know how I got into this alternative universe where liberals win, but I really like it.
Rita R.
@Steve:
Yeah, I think you’re exactly right with this. All the fundies’ talk about gay people’s icky icky sex is projection, it’s their holy minds obsessed with sex, not the other way around.
Brachiator
@Martin: RE: JCPenney’s target demographic is 25- to 44-year-olds, leaning mostly female, which the brand wants to attract with innovation, said Owen.
Again, I’m not sure how “old” you think Penney’s demographic is. They are not dodering retirees and angry GOP Tea Party pensioners.
So, target vs actual, from 2010:
JCP went after this group, figuring that they would have money to spend, as individuals and as parents.
But the movement to ecommerce (Amazon) and the relentless rise of the Big Box stores (WalMart and Costco).
In short, demographics is not the main problem. It’s the shift in shopping habits, especially the decline in interest in mid level department stores, along with the impact of a bad economy.
Brachiator
@Rita R.:
Yeah, that’s pretty much it. That’s why it is good to see so many people push back against this nonsense, and to clearly proclaim their Ellen love, and their rejection of anti ghey bigotry. it’s also great when they do it on the bigots’ web sites, so they can get the exact measure of the rejection.
shortstop
@Rita R.: And when it comes to two men having sex, no one ponders this more frequently or in more loving, high-def detail than Mr. Rick Santorum. It’s just amazing that he has time to do anything el…oh, wait, he doesn’t.
Rita R.
@shortstop:
Well, he does make time to stick his nose into the uteruses (uteri?) and vajayjays (to use Oprah’s favorite euphemism) of all women who are not his wife. And yes, I do realize what a disturbing image that is. My lady parts just recoiled and yelled at me.
geg6
@schrodinger’s cat:
I have two of them. They are my least comfortable bras. And the way the straps dig into my shoulders! I am not a very large woman, but my bra size says different.
From what I can tell, VS bras are made for women whose boobies are young and stay up by themselves or are medium to small chested. I hate their bras, especially considering that they are ridiculously expensive.
gex
@Rita R.: It’s because she’s likeable and out that they have a problem. If she keeps doing that, they won’t be able to teach them to be homophobic fascists.
gex
@shortstop: Be kind to her. The Catholics and the Mormons spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to make moms scared their kids would be damaged by learning about the gays. That was the demo that came around to prop 8 last and put it over the top.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
I don’t know that it’s a decline in interest in mid-level stores or the fact that they were all swallowed up by Macys. Mervyns went belly-up, but that seems to have been due more to poor management than anything else. Kohls is doing just fine as far as I can tell.
Trying to hit moms with young kids is a smart target demographic, because there’s only so much online shopping you can do for kids’ clothes. The pants you buy one week may not fit the next. Hell, if you choose SuperSaver shipping, the kid could outgrow the pants before they even arrive in the mail.
gex
@Rita R.: This. Or the way I view it: First we ask if we can get married. They ask, alarmed, “You want to fuck animals and children?”
Which, says nothing about gay people but tells you a lot about these fundies.
shortstop
@gex: Well, sure, but this was 15-17 years ago and we’d both grown up in a Unitarian household with old-school, laissez-faire Republican parents (yes, I know, a very strange combo of religious liberality and political conservatism, but my folks long ago became diehard Dems). Really, by the time we’d gone off to college, no one in our small town had yet gotten into the politics of vicious Other-baiting (at least, not the religious right kind) like people elsewhere began doing in the Reagan years. My sis went to a very liberal university and at least half of her friends have always been progressives. So I have no idea where she got that stuff, but I’m glad she’s shed it.
shortstop
@Rita R.: Mine, too. Thanks for the verbal chastity belt. It might wear off in a few hours if I’m lucky. ;)
Herbal Infusion Bagger
Word. JC Penneys want a younger demographic than your typical GOP evangelical raging that we’re descending to Sodum.
Getting into a fight with aging homophobic teatards is a feature, not a bug.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne: RE: It’s the shift in shopping habits, especially the decline in interest in mid level department stores, along with the impact of a bad economy.
I don’t have kids, so I don’t know how typical my experience is, but I do most of my former department store shopping at Target or online. I went to a Macy’s to look at some luggage, and realized that I had not been in a department store in years. And the Macy’s was a ghost town, the few sales people there bored and unhelpful.
And in Southern California, I recall when Robinsons became Robinson May (and a lot crappier), and May Company and The Broadway folded, along with an independent like FEDCO. Sears declined because they were stuck with a lot of stores in locations nobody went to anymore. Montgomery Ward quietly went into oblivion.
The Robinsons and FEDCO in Pasadena became Target. Most people I talk to with families shop at the Big Box stores or shop Amazon. Hipsters go for the trendy smaller non department stores like Abercrombie, H and M, etc. But I do see more people going to the JCP in Glendale, for example, than the Macys in the region.
Yep, yep. Although I understand that some outlet stores are still doing good business.
schrodinger's cat
@geg6: Really? Well I think they are the most comfortable bras ever. I usually buy them at their semi-annual sales in Dec and June. OK I am not large chested, may be that makes all the difference. I like Gap bras too, especially the t-shirt bras. Bras are so expensive, I usually stock up when they are on sale.
vheidi
JCP has a huge ad blitz on at Herald Square subway station- they’re across the street from Macy’s (more or less). Wish I’d stopped there instead of Macy’s last night…
debbie
Hopefully, the decision to hire Ellen will work out better than whoever they hired to improve their SEO.
http://www.seowizz.net/2011/02/jc-penney-seo-lazy-stupid-and-deserved.html
CaseyL
Oh, this is great – so many JCP shoppers coming out, loud and proud.
It just never occurred to me to shop there until a bit more than a couple years ago – don’t know where that was on their refashioning timetable – and discovered that they had wonderful handbags, underwear and PJs… and then found that their towels were made in the USA. Over the last year I’ve definitely noticed their girls and womens clothing is light years better than it was once upon a time.
Since I’m weirdly, sentimentally attached to the store names and brands I grew up with – and increasingly upset when they cease to exist – I’m very happy to ol’ JCP getting rejuvenated.
WaterGirl
@geg6: This is why skimming a BJ post like this can get you into trouble. And by you, i mean me.
I had just skimmed Rita R’s comment above, saw the reference to ‘vajayjays’ and then the next thing I read was your comment below. saying “I have two of them”.
I certainly did a double take!
Odie Hugh Manatee
@WaterGirl:
Double your pleasure, double your fun… ;)
My wife is a huge Ellen fan and has been since her comedy acts of the 80’s. She watches her show daily and our daughter and her think the world of Ellen. They both just about shit when they saw BillO being played on her show today and what he said floored them too. They can’t stand BillO one bit but they both think he did the right thing here.
My wife hasn’t hit JCP for years now but she is going to check out the local outlet to lend them support for their move. I told her of the marketing changes and she’s always looking to save money. The reason she got tired of JCP in the past was because of their confusing sales and not knowing if something was still on sale that day or not. She hated that more than anything and I know that we used to buy a ton of stuff from them in the past.
JDP was smart in standing behind Ellen. Kudo to them for doing so in the face of winger hatred and intolerance. I hope it pays off for them because they deserve it.