And my former Governor and current Senator once again proves his Republican bona fides:
U.S. Senators Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) today will introduce bipartisan legislation, called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 2012, that would repeal the Obama Administration’s mandate requiring religious employers to cover contraception for their employees under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Last week, Manchin sent a letter to President Obama, explaining his strong opposition to the mandate that he called “a direct affront to the religious freedoms protected under the First Amendment of our Constitution.” He asked the President to expand the mandate’s exemption for religious employers.
“Under our Constitution, religious organizations have the freedom to follow their beliefs, and government should honor that,” Senator Manchin said. “The Obama Administration’s position on this mandate is wrong and just doesn’t make any sense to me. I’m proud to introduce this bipartisan legislation with Senator Rubio, which will ensure that the First Amendment rights of religious employers are afforded the respect they deserve.”
Again, I am no lawyer, but my understanding of the bill these two is proposing is that it goes well beyond religious organizations and is basically waging war on women’s health insurance provided by any organization. Basically, anyone can say “that offends me” and screw women over, even if it really doesn’t and it is just a way for them to save a few bucks. I really liked Manchin as governor, but every single time he has made the news in the Senate it is undercutting this administration. Well, not every time. There was that time he demagogued DADT and the DREAM ACT for weeks and then turned himself into a national laughingstock by skipping the votes to go hang out with his family. It’s like he senses that with the Lieberman/Nelson retirements, there is a real opportunity for him to be the biggest asshole Democrat in the Senate.
What he fails to realize is that all this mavericky nonsense is self-defeating. First, he’s at odds with the majority of the nation. Second, he’s backing bad policy. Third, this isn’t going to make Republicans like him anymore, because they hate him simply because he has a (D) after his name. He could vote with Republicans on very single issue, and they are still going to spend millions funding John Raese or whatever wingnut they find to run against Joe. And finally, if he is ever in a fix, no one is going to rally to his aid- Democrats like me will say, just like we are with Nelson and Lieberman- “Good riddance. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass.” Remember when Weiner got in trouble and all his colleagues basically said “Ehh, screw him?” No one likes grandstanding jackasses.
I don’t think it is unfair to expect Manchin to at some point, some time in his term, to behave like a Democrat. Or at least just shut up once in a while and stop undercutting other Democrats.
fasteddie9318
This would be a good time to remind people that, when they make political donations, they should donate directly to a particular candidate. Donating to the national party committees ensures that your money will go to help some ass clown like Manchin.
Mino
I think I’d make him find Republicans to elect him. He’s no damn good to us on anything, is he? We’e not gonna get 60 Dems, so screw him. Get a better one next time.
I’m sick and tired of Repubs that run as Dems to get ahead.
I’ll be curious to see what happens to Kaine’s lead in Virginia. Northern Va soccer moms aren’t gonna like him much.
NR
And then lots of people will jump up and say “No no! You have to support him. It doesn’t matter how bad he is, the Republican is worse!”
The Other Chuck
Werent you the same one screeching at us that Manchin was the best we were gonna get out of WV?
Linnaeus
Maybe it’s time to start looking for primary opponents to Manchin, even if he’s not up for reelection for a while. Build the infrastructure.
Trabb's Boy
Please call the White House on this. They’re apparently only hearing from the bad guys!
202 456-1111
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2012/02/teaspoon-time.html
Mino
@Trabb’s Boy: You know that’s been arranged. I called a little while ago and the wait was short.
FlipYrWhig
@The Other Chuck: He probably is. It says a lot about WV that that’s true. You can suck and still be a lot better than the even suckier alternative, no?
Linnaeus
And wasn’t this the same guy whose campaign commercials had him shooting at targets and saying he was going to “take aim at Obamacare”?
fasteddie9318
@The Other Chuck: Manchin has been even worse than I think most people figured he would be.
Jim C.
What mystifies me is the lack of attention paid to history by these Blue Dogs. If insanity is doing the exact same thing that has not worked over and over again, then the Blue Dog Caucus is batshit crazy.
Turning their back on the left doesn’t cause the right to go easy on them. In today’s Tea Party dominated Republican Party, there is nobody that is quite far enough to the right for them. All that turning on the left accomplishes is to alienate your friend and depress voter turnout among the people likely to vote for you if you go to the polls.
It is Blue Dog Democrats that are likely to go down FIRST during close elections because often times it was a combination of massive Democratic voter turnout and good numbers with independents that got them into their current jobs in the first place.
So if you want to keep getting elected, the formula for Blue Dogs, based on recent history, is fairly straightforward: Lean far more to the left than to the right, while every once in a while taking some sort of “principled mavericky stand” when it doesn’t endanger your own party.
I think we should call this the McCain Gambit.
90% conservative voting record except when it won’t actually harm his party, then he makes a big media stink to show how independent he is.
Could also be called the Graham Gambit if that flows better.
Mino
@NR: With no discipline in the Dem Caucus, it’ dead easy for an ambitious guy to run as a Dem when he should be a Republican. Nobody demands any but the weakest loyalty any more.
NR
@Linnaeus: A primary challenge will never work because the Democratic establishment will come out in full support of Manchin. See: Blanche Lincoln in Arkansas.
Valdivia
@Trabb’s Boy:
tried calling very busy. will keep trying.
kc
I’m so angry I could sacrific a virgin!
Bruce S
Y’all need to read Charles Murray. Liberal stuff like birth control and having children out of wedlock is destroying the white race. Or something…
TooManyJens
@The Other Chuck:
“The best we can get out of WV” and “terrible” are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Tod Kelly
John – It’s hard for me to see this as a “we need to make a substantial change bill,” so much as a “it will never pass but we need to grab the spotlight while it’s hot” bill.
Mino
@NR: You don’t have to challenge them. Don’t vote for them and the Republican will take them out and then find someone not so nauseous. It’s lose/lose to keep somebody like that.
artem1s
just curious how many of you out there have representatives or senators who are habitually luke warm on reproductive care because of large Catholic constituencies?
Kucinich definitely falls into that category and I imagine Sherrod Brown will get heat on this too. Is this more a move to hold onto the house and turn some seats in the Senate? Cause I can totally see the next Kochsukkers PAC ad coming here in NE OH. SHERROD BROWN HATES RELIGION! AND KILLS BABIES.ALSO.TOO!
Cluttered Mind
Sounds like being a Democrat to me. If you want a party where everyone marches in lockstep, you’re in the wrong tent. Yeah these guys annoy the hell out of me too, but unless the Democrats are able to enforce ideological purity the way the Republicans have been able to, this situation in the party is unlikely to change. What’s that old joke? “Do you belong to any organized political parties? No, I’m a Democrat!”
Same as it’s always been.
Quarks
Just to point out what should be obvious, but apparently is not to Manchin and Rubio:
Women do use birth control medication for reasons OTHER THAN BIRTH CONTROL. Some women (me) experience very bad menstrual periods which can have adverse affects on overall health.
This is not a religious conscience issue; this is a how to control severe anemia, massive bleeding, or disabling cramps issue. It’s absolutely a health issue.
(Apologies if this has been brought up in other threads. Well, maybe not. I think it needs to be said a lot.)
John Dillinger
Someone needs to file a companion bill to grant a similar right to anyone who is offended by insurance paying for h@rd-on meds, and name it the “Just Because McConnell and Manchin Can’t Get it Up Shouldn’t Mean I Have to Pay for Act of 2012.”
GregB
He’s getting close to earning the name Joe Man-on-dog-Chin.
gypsy howell
I just called Bob Casey’s office and gave them a piece of my mind about having the Vatican dictate health care policies in the United States.
NR
@Mino: A big part of the problem is that lots of people will demand that progressives/Democrats support anyone with a (D) after his name, no matter what they do while in office. And far too many progressives/Democrats will go along with that.
They point to voting records and say stuff like “It’s a lot better to have someone who’s with you 50% of the time than someone who’s with you 0% of the time!” Of course, what these arguments ignore is the fact that voting is only one part of a Congressman/Senator’s job. They ignore the role that these so-called “Democrats” play in weakening and watering down legislation before it ever comes up for a vote. And they ignore the fact that when these so-called “Democrats” sign on to right-wing policies like the one being discussed here, they make those policies seem less extreme than they are by giving them “bipartisan” cover.
“Democrats” like Manchin do a LOT more harm than most people would care to admit.
Valdivia
Done! I spoke to the volunteer who thanked me for my call.
Mino
@artem1s: Have you seen the polling on the subject? This is a loser for the Church among Catholics!
NR
@Mino: Careful. Talking like that will get you chased by an angry mob around here.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@FlipYrWhig:
Same applies here in Misery. Blanche McCaskill is another one who doesn’t get it: she’s scared shitless of the state Repups, pulls similar stunts to Manchin’s in the hopes of currying favor with a portion of the electorate that will never vote for her.
And yes, alas, she’s the “best” we can get out of this state: she’s really an old school moderate Republican. She sure as shit ain’t no Democrat.
And a year ago I predicted she’d lose badly this fall. Now I’m not so sure. The state sure as hell ain’t gonna go for that “black fella” (as they’ll call him here in private, and that’s from the “nice” bigots) but for once the Repups here have some really lame folks working the primary trail against her and she might just squeak in.
Mino
@NR: Manchin is not worth the air he breathes. Is there any issue where he differs from conservatives? I don’t think so. He’s no kind of Dem. Just an ambitious bastard.
4tehlulz
TPM is claiming that John Kerry just abandoned the White House on this.
Source is Ed Henry, though, so we’ll see if this is true.
I blame Tim Thomas.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I just saw an MSNBC reporter state that “several Democratic Senators” have come out against the WHite House on this. I checked TPM, NYT, WaPo, HuffPo and the MSNBC site. The only Dem Senator I can see who has done this is Manchin.
Mino
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage: She isn’t even close to Manchin.
The Moar You Know
You get Manchin or no Democrat at all.
Let me know how this works out once we’re under 50 in the Senate.
kay
It’s a good test for stupidity.
Manchin doesn’t understand the health care law, he doesn’t understand the Catholic role in the modern health care system ( as opposed to sentimental or nostalgiac ideas about the Catholic role) and he doesn’t understand the conservative objective here, which has nothing to do with religious liberty.
You know who does understand all that?
The HHS director. Who is Catholic. But female, so therefore can’t know more than the 5,000 idiots who are
screaming about this.
It’s really educational to watch this. Half of them are getting played, and the other half know what’s up, but are misleading people.
It’ll be a shame if they win. Neither
group should be rewarded for this, the stupid half or the dishonest half.
Davis X. Machina
That’s Joe ‘Nighthorse’ Manchin…
Mino
@The Moar You Know: Spend the money where yu have a real Dem. Be a shame if we lost Brown to keep Manchin.
JWL
Cole: Do you honestly believe that Weiner was cut loose because of (what you deem) his talent for grandstanding? Tell me, why then was senator Max Cleland deserted by his democratic colleagues, after being accused of collaboration with foreign enemies?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Davis X. Machina: his friends call him Shelby
28 Percent
If this stays in the news all the way through the summer, I won’t need Christmas again, like, ever. When it was only affecting employees at Catholic hospitals and unis it was one thing, but when they tip their hand this early and say that they want to take away everybody’s pill, geez lo-fucking-uise, who let them take the crazy that far out of the closet?
Am I the only one that looks at this and thinks “so, you decided to do something that adversely affects middle class voters in the 20-45 bracket, that they will get a reminder of every month when they pay higher rates for their pack of pills, that can easily be characterized as a punishment on people who are engaging in what they have completely internalized as an actively responsible behavior, and this to you looked like a good thing? And with judgment like that, you want to be put in charge of a nuclear arsenal?”
Wow.
artem1s
@Mino:
It might be an over all loser amongst Catholics but in districts that are already getting hammered by Citizens United money it could be damaging. And if it makes a legislator afraid to appear at a campaign stop with Obama this fall it could be a critical hit.
pragmatism
john, when will WV just give in and name Don Blankenship CEO of the state?
Mino
Democrats are elected by women. Period.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the washington post has a web story “Five reasons Obama is losing the contraception fight”. Four of these reasons are that people who don’t like Obama don’t like Obama’s position. One reference to actual public opinion says roughly “Catholics are even split, but white Catholics disapprove”. I guess we’re back to the days of Bill Schneider’s “Bill Clinton’s number are only strong if you count women and minorities”
The Ancient Randonneur
Or, maybe Manchin is just another man who believes he knows what is best for a woman’s health. He really could be that arrogant.
Tim in SF
If the Catholics are able to remove birth control coverage from the affordable care act, I wonder if Jehovah’s Witnesses will be able to remove blood transfusions, and if Scientologists can nix psychiatric care, antidepressants, and addiction recovery services.
The Other Bob
Some Democrats like Manchin seem to have a poor self esteem and have to act like Republicans to feel good about themselves. I have seen it in my State legisalture. It does not seem to go both ways though. I don’t see R’s doing the same thing.
kay
Oh, and if it actually was unlawful, “under our constitution” conservatives wouldn’t have to write legislation that blows a huge gaping hole in the regulatory scheme, which is what they’re doing.
So all this blathering about the constitution is just so much bullshit.
Obama should win this one. He’s right on the policy, he’s right on the law, and maybe most importantly, he’s telling people the truth and acting in good
faith. That’s not true of his opponents.
batgirl
I have to say that the media and the GOP are doing a good job of misleading the public (and they are still on the losing side!). In the few conversations I’ve had with people, they seem to think that the Obama administration is going to require their local church, etc. to cover birth control. When I explain that these purely religious organizations are exempt and that this is meant to cover religious universities and hospitals that both employ and serve large numbers of people regardless of their beliefs (or lack of), most individuals seem to calm down.
Mino
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Jesus, what a gift for the MSM. Just when the lull in the Republican primaries comes along. They”re gonna play it for all it’s worth.
Voters might actually pay attention if it stays in the news.
Litlebritdifrnt
@gypsy howell:
That is a brilliant message if I may say so. Nothing would get the Evangelicals riled up more than the Pope telling us what to do.
Leah
What we have to keep remembering is that the anti-birth-control forces are wildly unpopular with a sizable majority of the American public. Rightwingers have that knack of coming on like they speak for the only meaningful majority, and the mainstream media assumes that the liberal/left is always the loser in each skirmish of the culture wars.
They are wrong, and the polling is beginning to show that.
I agree that we have to let the White House and Democrats in congress know that they now represent a majority, and an angry majority. If Obama caves or too many of the Dems do, our side pays the political price. If we win and there is little or no compromise, and that means the White House and the Dems pointing out what a dangerous farce the Rubio/Manchin bill is to the exercise of anyone’s right to make up their own mind about contraception. This is another case just like the Terry Schiavo one, where the right lost big-time.
I just called the White House for half an hour and it was consistently busy. You can also write a message on-line or do an email. Do all three if you can.
And leave comments at as many msm sites as you can.
patrick II
I don’t know that it has been clearly stated here, but Joe Manchin is himself a Roman Catholic.
Evidently Catholic old men feel it necessary to compel women of child bearing age to be able to have a child every time they fuck or stay virgins for their entire life.
FormerSwingVoter
Guys – be sure to write or phone the White House and your Senators about this. Just a reminder.
Mino
@patrick II: This is not the only instance of his asshattery.
Faux News
I’m sorry to hear this John. As a Connecticut native I share your pain. Watching Senator Lieberman (I-Israel)put the knife in the back of the Democratic party over and over it becomes painful and embarrassing. Look at it this way. At least Manchin won’t be the VP pick for Presidential hopeful John McCain in 2016.
Pillsy
And now John Kerry is coming out against the mandate. Shit.
Hill Dweller
Sen. Kerry has now said the WH needs to alter the legislation. Never mind the policy mirrors the Massachusetts policy that has been in effect for nearly a decade.
wvng
As an elected Democrat in WV, you have no idea how Manchin’s behavior drives me nuts. He destroys our capacity to promote Democratic narratives, in a state where that is already damned difficult thanks to Fox and Rush and the NRA sand teh stoopid. That said, I’ll unhappily vote for him because he is a check in the D column that helps us retain the Senate majority and the ability to set the agenda. That really matters.
FormerSwingVoter
So, according to TPM, John Kerry of all people is telling the President to back down on this (note: on the “Catholic hospitals” variety, not the “all employers” version).
I wrote him. I’ll call him tomorrow and send a snail mail letter as well.
Here’s what I sent via email:
For those from Massachusetts: You absolutely HAVE to let Kerry know how you feel:
http://kerry.senate.gov/contact/
jl
@FormerSwingVoter: I got the number and will call.
The new proposals are so extreme, I cannot imagine most normal people will think they are attempts to preserve religious freedom.
I’ve read that GOP operatives who have to worry about actual normal people voting GOP in November (or not) are telling the Congressional GOP to back off.
It must be a bluff to damage health care reform, and demoralize Democratic support, and whip up the GOP base.
So, need to tell WH to not cave on this. I can only imagine it is a bluff and a political stunt by GOP.
Rob
Remember when Weiner got in trouble and all his colleagues basically said “Ehh, screw him?” No one likes grandstanding jackasses.
I wish that were true but it’s not. You can be a grandstanding jackass. Joe Lieberman did it and the Democratic establishment backed him in 2006 anyway. Of course he repaid their loyalty by backing McCain. And what did the democrats do after that? Nothing. He’s retiring now because CT won’t vote for him again, the Democratic establishment in DC on the other hand still lets him do what he wants without repercussions.
slag
@4tehlulz:
You can’t be serious. After all the shit he got from the Church when he was running? What the fuck is with these people and their unholy alliances? Are this many Catholics that into S&M? Holy Jeebus…way to confirm every stereotype we have about you, guys!
pseudonymous in nc
I believe that’s known as “Zell Miller disease”, where a centrist Democrat governor moves to DC and becomes a contrarian asshole.
GregB
There’s a reason why he’s only Senator Kerry and he’s displaying that idiocy right now.
Reporting for doody.
TooManyJens
I’m calling Dick Durbin’s office right now to let them know that I hope he doesn’t go all weak-kneed.
Raven
@slag: gutless as usual
FormerSwingVoter
@jl:
Ooooh, I really hope this is true. But I’ve given up hope that folks will notice that the GOP is explicitly trying to screw them over as hard as humanly possible all the time.
danimal
This decision will be bad politics for a week and a gigantic club in the fall. When the GOP overreaches and votes on a bill that takes away contraceptive coverage for all employers who claim a religious objection, every Dem candidate in the country (except for the Manchin-level idiots) will have a winning issue. A killer issue. A turn-the-Congress-Blue issue. Access to birth control is one of those issues that will drive apathetic, apolitical lower income women to the polls. Bet on it.
My political advice is to lay low and get the GOP on the record and on the offensive. They don’t know how to stop and they don’t have the intelligence to recognize the perils of grandstanding. Give them the rope for a day or two. Then hang ’em.
slag
@Raven: I can only hope that’s the answer. It seems way worse than that to me. More like a psychological disorder of some sort.
As JC notes, one of the worst things about constantly blowing with the wind is that eventually you could have nowhere to land when the wind stops. If John Kerry is really pulling this shit, he’s going to have a really hard time finding someplace to land, as far as I’m concerned.
One of the best possible outcomes for this Administration is that it could end up putting a huge financial strain on the wingnut welfare circuit. Money may be fungible, but it’s also finite.
Hill Dweller
Kerry is a f’n coward. Has ever uttered a word in protest about the health care policy in his own f’n state?
Mino
@slag: He can probably kiss Sec of Def goodbye. At least I hope so.
Suffern ACE
Next up. Covering AIDS medications. What? You thought there was only one health insurance issue that a religious employer would want to jerk around an employee for?
Raven
@slag: He’s a snotty rich asshole, he doesn’t need to worry about “landing”. Motherfucker had fought back against the Swiftboat assholes instead of pulling that “Reporting for Duty” horseshit we wouldn’t have had 4 more years of the chimp.
batgirl
Why am I not surprised that it is all these old Catholic democratic men who are coming out against the President. Fuck them all. Daley, Biden, Manchin, Kerry, and the next idiot to fall in line with the Catholic Church.
jl
@FormerSwingVoter:
I think almost everyone understands that if you mess with birth control, you are messing with their (sextytime) personal life style.
And a lot of people understand that birth control pills have a lot of medical uses besides birth control.
So, for most people, messing with contraception is not remote issue like suspicious other kinds of folks living it up on welfare money on other side of town, or frivolous abortions happening to a mythical population of promiscuous floozies.
They understand that they will get messed over personally.
GOP is losing the mainstream on almost all of their issues. So I figure this is a bluff to see if they can buffalo foolish and weak Dems into caving. Fact that it is contra personal, medical, and financial interests of vast majority of real people in US, and damages them very personally, is irrelevant.
Funny thing is, I think if GOP had a better chance of winning a real long lasting victory in terms of birth control coverage if they had kept it just to religious organizations.
Now, it seems like a desperate bluff to get a short term gain at a long term cost. Or they count on voter suppression to cement in short term political gain. Or, they are so cynical they will just flip flop asap, when they can benefit politically.
kay
Way to go, Democrats.
Wrong on the law, wrong on the policy, ignorant of the facts and gutting a law they lost the House to pass.
Some should ask John Kerrry how many of the ten biggest hospital systems in the US are affiliated with the Catholic
Church.
See if he knows the answer to that.
Because Obama does, and Sebelius does.
Raven
@Hill Dweller: That’s FUCKING coward.
Suffern ACE
@Hill Dweller: I’m just wondering how often these codes are enforced. It seems to me that the issue started with the Bishops saying “well you don’t really mean us”. I’m thinking at the state level, even with laws that wouldn’t exempt church businesses, they just have been exempting themselves and no one has been calling them on it. Just a hunch. I bet when we look at the plans of Catholic Healthcare workers, we’ll find a lot of “Good Girls Only” insurance offerings that would violate state laws, but who’s going to sue the religious orders? Massachusetts could be a case of that non-enforcement if the exemption isn’t in the law.
Rathskeller
I’m feeling kind of dumb on this, because I ultimately don’t understand how this passes the laugh test. Are they saying that health care coverage currently covered under existing law, the PPACA plus whatever, should no longer be covered, because they’re offended by it?
Can I play? Will my offense at, say, smokers, be translated into a lack of coverage for them? Why are these assholes even being listened to?
And why is their offense always inarguable, serious, and a immediate reason to overturn laws; but our offense at some racist ching-chong-ching commercial just another example of political correctness? Fuck ’em.
jl
@Rathskeller: Well, smoking is against the rules for a number of religions, as well as drinking alcohol.
For booze, you can demand, if run a business, and have convenient religious beliefs, demand insurance that leaves out of liver and pancreas coverage. That will save you some dough.
And for smoking, I guess you would demand insurance leaves out, well, pretty much everything except pimples and brain cancer.
FoxinSocks
I just took a short break from work to step outside and call my senators. I also called Senator Kerry. I might not live in his state, but I’ve donated a lot of money to him in the past and boy am I pissed.
Finally, I called Senator Rubio and gave the intern that picked up the phone the following scenario: Several members of my family are New Agey and against vaccines. I think they’re wrong, but they have deep-seated moral objections to vaccinations. If this law is passed, will they be able to deny vaccination coverage to their employees? The intern couldn’t answer.
Oh, I think you’ll all be amused to know that at one point, I called the wrong number and ended up with the wrong senator. Me: “My family has known Senator X for a long time. We know she’ll stand up for our right to health and well-being.” Intern: “Um, ma’m. This is Senator Y’s office.”
Rawk Chawk
Really unbelievable douchebags.
The good thing is this kind of crazy town shit will wake up a lot of middle merkins to the psycho right in this country, and where they are mostly congregated: Within the Repub party and the reactionary Bot Tot Club here at BJ.
Citizen Alan
@The Moar You Know:
If we lose the Senate, I expect Manchin to switch to the Republicans anyway.
WeeBey
Can we wait on the Kerry bashing until we see an actual quotation?
Hill Dweller
@WeeBey: Kerry statement:
kay
Did the Senators bother to think about what happens when a Catholic hospital system merges with a secular system?
Because that’s happening all over the country.
One of the biggest hospital systems in California will soon be a secular/ Catholic partnership, and they started that reorganization in 2009.
So do they get the special opt-out of federal regulation?
WeeBey
@Hill Dweller:
Thank you.
I really have little beef, there.
GregB
@WeeBey:
How dare you get in the way of my pre-emptive outrage!
Now get back on the C block and sell some product.
WeeBey
@GregB:
Aiight, but feed my fish, hear?
fasteddie9318
Yes, folks, that’s The Democratic Party®: Proudly mangling majority-supported positions into political losses for generations!
kay
“My religion forbids premarital sex or extramarital sex, therefore I don’t have to offer maternity coverage to those who aren’t married at the time of conception”
Which trumps every state law in the country.
This is why pundits shouldn’t write health care regulations.
hamletta
@Hill Dweller: That doesn’t sound like caving. That sounds like handing them some more rope.
Raven
@WeeBey: Fuck him anyway.
4tehlulz
@Hill Dweller: So….the same thing Axelrod said:
Nothing, but it will be read as ZOMG CAVE anyway.
jl
@Hill Dweller: Later when I have time I will read the whole statement to see whether Kerry is actually proposing something useful, or just gasbagwaffliating. If he doesn’t have anything constructive to propose, I will call his office and offer my opinion, in a civil way. Not sure what good it will do, I don’t live in MA, but whatever.
Villago Delenda Est
@Hill Dweller:
That’s a pretty wishy-washy statement, if you ask me.
The correct answer is to tell the boy-buggering monsters of the USCCB to fuck off and die in a fire.
fasteddie9318
I practice the religion of Ancient Greece, therefore I refuse to pay for any pre-natal or maternity care for my pregnant female employees, and expect them upon the birth of the child to expose said child on a nearby hill or crossroads so that they may return to work the next day. Note that this is not infanticide, because as a practitioner of the ancient Greek religion I believe that the gods will rescue any deserving child who has been exposed.
I’m assuming I’m on solid legal footing at this point, yes?
FlipYrWhig
@kay: My earlier hypothetical was the Christian Science Monitor telling its reporters that they no longer covered medical treatments of any kind. But this thing is even worse, because it’s just an individual Christian Scientist who runs, say, a couple of hardware stores, telling his employees who aren’t Christian Scientists that his conscience won’t allow his money to go towards medicine, so they’ll just have to pay out of pocket. That is total insanity, I’m confident 95% of Americans would agree.
Hill Dweller
Originally, Kerry’s spox was saying the regulation should be changed. That disappeared, and Kerry released the statement I quoted above. I’m betting Kerry took a lot of shit after the first statement from his staff, then walked it back.
Citizen Alan
@patrick II:
Ya know, that’s interesting when you think about it. Very, very interesting. Because Wiki informs me that Holy Joe got married at the age of 20 and has been married for 45 years (the first ten or so during the Swinging Seventies), yet somehow he only has three children! I wonder however he managed to have such a small family given his firm Catholicism and his obvious opposition to contraception. Perhaps it would be a good idea for some of his constituents to start calling his office to ask about that topic. I assume he used the rhythm method, but he must be exceptionally good at it to have only sired three times. Maybe some of his constituents should start asking him about his technique!
FlipYrWhig
The definition of “religious liberty” is getting all out of whack anyway, I realized earlier today. “Religious liberty” means freedom TO WORSHIP. No one _worships_ by denying contraception under health insurance plans. If that’s not just something you believe but _part of your liturgy_, you have one fucked-up religion on your hands. Not everything the members of a church believe is a matter of WORSHIP.
jl
@Hill Dweller: So, Kerry chickened out of his chickening out, and issued boilerplate with no content. Impresive.
Tom Q
@FlipYrWhig: As David Boies said last night, idiots are claiming this is a fight over religious liberty when it’s actually a dispute over labor rights.
A letter in the NY Times this morning put it succinctly: “I should be denied insurance coverage for contraception because my employer is offended by it?”
kay
The former head of Medicaid and Medicare, who is a doctor, said there are only 2 US Senators (sitting) who have “deep knowledge” of the US healthcare system.
One was Sherrod Brown.
John Kerry was not the other, nor was Manchin, nor Marco R.
Cokie Roberts? Nope.
Raven
@jl: Typical half-steppin motherfucker that he is.
FlipYrWhig
@Tom Q:
Seriously. Especially when the right’s entire argument against national health care was that the government would be butting into the relationship between doctors and patients. So now what right wingers want is for _the guy who owns the company you work for_ to get between you and your doctor. Now who’s the busybody? Madness.
Now I’m kind of curious about what Ron and Rand Paul would say about all this. Doctors, libertarians, and pro-lifers… it’s right up their (back) alley, ain’t it?
Villago Delenda Est
@FlipYrWhig:
They’ve never had a problem with a private bureaucrat (like some beancounter for a health “insurance” company) getting in between you and your doctor. Only one of those terrible public bureaucrats.
Southern Beale
Well, don’t feel so bad about Manchin, down in Mississippi some idiot state rep — a DEMOCRAT — wants to rename the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America.
Kyle
@kay:
CHW offered a standard health insurance package to its employees, who at my location were no more Catholic than the general population. Most of the doctors were Jewish.
I don’t recall specifically if it covered contraception when I worked there, but it was a standard corporate package with no special religious exemptions.
Mike G
@Villago Delenda Est:
Right-wingers really aren’t opposed to authoritarianism and oppression — they just want it to be privatized.
FlipYrWhig
@Mike G: But even the most rabid Republican you can imagine can’t possibly want the guy who signs his paycheck to have final say over what medical treatments his family can receive. And that’s what Marco Rubio and Joe Manchin want to establish.
Lex
Basically, anyone can say “that offends me” and screw women over, even if it really doesn’t and it is just a way for them to save a few bucks.
It’s even more cynical than that, John. This isn’t about either religious principles or saving a few bucks. It’s about getting the evangelical base to the polls in November even though the likely nominee is someone most are unenthusiastic about and some are actively hostile to.
That’s all this is.