Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Second rate reporter says what?

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Let me file that under fuck it.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2012 / Arizona GOP Debate Open Thread

Arizona GOP Debate Open Thread

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Almost certainly, positively the last of these debacles, since the Super Tuesday debate’s been cancelled. A reminder of progress to date, per Paul Constant at The Stranger:

In case you haven’t been paying attention up till now, the Republican presidential race has been a steaming turdgasm featuring sexual harassment, the joyous applauding of state-sanctioned murder, racism, xenophobia, idiocy, anti-gay bigotry, the lusty booing of uninsured people who dare to get hit by cars, and detailed discussion of how much control the government should have over the uteruses of women. Depending on who you ask, the current front-runner is either a malevolent Ken doll with a quarter-billion-dollar personal fortune, a white supremacist with a rock-hard boner for Ayn Rand who’s trying to overthrow the party using some tricky delegate math, or a gay-and-woman-hating religious demagogue who, according to internet folklore, was named after a vile, frothy mixture of lubricant and bodily fluids.
__
In short, the only winner of the Republican primaries to date has been Barack Obama.

CNN livestream here, if it doesn’t crash your system.

Richard Adams’ invaluable Guardian liveblog here.

I agree with this statement from Adams:

9.04pm: So far this debate is like watching three drunks trying to start a fight and falling over.

… but I’d add the modifiers “mean, violently-inclined, stupid drunks”.

Excellent final summary from Mr. Adams, too also:

10.05pm: And that is. Thank god that’s over. A couple more hours of this and the Republican party could go the way of the Whigs. (Some of you may think that’s not a bad thing.)
__
So 20 years from now we’ll find that all these Republican debates were secretly funded by the Obama campaign, code-named “Give them enough rope”.
__
Here’s my one-word summary right now: beer.

(The question from John King to the candidates: What one word would you use to describe yourself? The answers: Paul, “consistent”; Santorum, “courage”; Romney, “resolute”, and Gingrich, “cheerful”.)

Reader Interactions

130Comments

  1. 1.

    BGinCHI

    If at the end each candidate gets to throw Ron Paul as far as they can, my money is on Santorum.

    Santorum can be really slippery in these kinds of situations.

  4. 4.

    Comrade Mary

    I think someone should let Adams know that Dog on Roof / Man on Dog is a concept that appeared well before February 20 on a blog that is not Shakesville.

  5. 5.

    Raven

    I got sick after my whirlwind trip to the Bay Area so I can’t feel any worse, may as well watch these fools.

  7. 7.

    Soonergrunt

    @Baud: That was changed, actually. At the end of the debate, each candidate will perform an intravaginal ultrasound on a pregnant teenager. Points will be awarded based upon how effectively the candidate can shame the little whore into keeping her baby.

  9. 9.

    Brian R.

    John King is moderating? He should just drop trou now and wait for Newt to go to pound town on him.

  11. 11.

    Rita R.

    Ooohh… they’re in chairs. Way to mix it up CNN. But sitting on their brains like that could slow this debate down.

  12. 12.

    jl

    I guess I will check in, I mean if we see Rih fighting Satan over the fate of America real time, that would be exciting.

    On other hand, if End Times and Armageddon ensue, it’s sure to be in the news tomorrow.

    But, aw heck, I’ll check in and see how it’s going anyway
    .

  14. 14.

    Raven

    I remember the time if you wore a shirt made out of a flag it made the right-wingers heads explode. Now they are one.

  15. 15.

    Spaghetti Lee

    Depending on who you ask, the current front-runner is

    Patrick Bateman, Gollum, and Ward Cleaver as I like to call them.

  16. 16.

    lamh34

    Not watching the debate, but are either of the Catholic candidates have ashes on their foreheads.

    Speaking of Ash Wednesday, I have a supervisor who every year leaves and goes to the chapel or somewhere in/or around the hospital and get ashes on her forehead and would walk around all day with ashes on her forehead.

    Question, are the ashes supposed to be worn all day? Do you have to get the ashes in the morning or can you get the ashes anytime of the day?

  20. 20.

    Merp

    For Christ’s sake.

    “As George Costanza would say, ‘When they’re applauding, stop’ “?

    The memory circuits must have gotten corrupted from the awful construction of the humor subroutine. Because that’s just a horrible reference.

  23. 23.

    Raven

    Oh, this motherfucker is going to link government pay to private sector. When they did a comparison in my job in higher ed a bunch of IT people got raises.

  24. 24.

    Anne Laurie

    @Soonergrunt:

    Points will be awarded based upon how effectively the candidate can shame the little whore into keeping her baby bearing a healthy white newborn for a decent, hard-working Heartland American(tm) couple to adopt.

    Fixed that for you. Ask Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts — that’s a valuable commodity those feckless teenagers are wasting!

  29. 29.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh34: @Raven: any time of day, and leave them on, at least we did. My mom used to take us after school. When I was growing up, seeing those ashes wouldn’t have phased me, on nutty Melinda Henneberger, it looked all Tebowy.

  30. 30.

    Redshift

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Cause Jesus thought the sick should just die out in the yard.

    No, no, Jesus said “no one should care for the poor or the sick but me, and if I don’t make ’em healthy and rich, it means Dad wanted them to die.” Or something like that.

    He also said “any tax money that goes to Caesar is theft, so render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, which is nothing.”

  31. 31.

    General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)

    Cool knut is channeling the founders. Drill baby drill, they were clear on that.

  39. 39.

    MikeJ

    @Redshift:

    He also said “any tax money that goes to Caesar is theft, so render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, which is nothing.”

    This one is easy. Who’s picture is on the dollar bill? George Washington. He’s dead, and now he;s in heaven with Jesus. Since you give unto Caesar what is his, and he’s with Jesus, all the money should go to the church.

  41. 41.

    Anne Laurie

    @lamh34:

    Question, are the ashes supposed to be worn all day? Do you have to get the ashes in the morning or can you get the ashes anytime of the day?

    Unless they’ve changed the rules during the last 35 years, any time between 12am and 11:59pm is okay. Technically, it’s not a requirement, just a ritual. And how long you choose to leave the mark on your forehead is up to you — there’s even a theological argument that parading around all day with your bangs pulled back to show the smudge could be a venial sin of pridefulness. I’m sure Santorum’s and Gingrich’s handlers measured the positive value of parading their Catholic piety against the negative value of reminding hardshell-Protestant viewers that papists are ot-nay ictly-stray istians-Cray.

  42. 42.

    Rita R.

    Ron Paul is a loon, but hearing him call Pope Ricky the First a fake was a moment worth watching in this shitshow.

  43. 43.

    Raven

    @Soonergrunt: Yea, this was Atlanta just before the crash. We’ve had quite a few people leave to go to the private sector so I don’t know what the deal is now. I do know that none of us except big wigs administrators have gotten a dime in raises for 5 years.

  44. 44.

    Linda Featheringill

    I tried to listen to the debate but couldn’t stomach it. Yuck.

    It is depressing to watch bad people get applause and rewards for telling lies.

    On the other hand, comments here and a few more places are much more palatable.

  45. 45.

    BenA

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I grew up in a part of CT without a lot of Catholics… I never remember seeing the ashes on anyone until I moved here to PA. It basically snapped any ideas I had about Catholics not being as nutty as any other religious cult out of my head. ;-)

  46. 46.

    WaterGirl

    @lamh34: You get them whenever your church service is, and they are there until they wear off by themselves. They are not to be washed off. That’s how it was when I was in catholic school, at least.

  47. 47.

    Soonergrunt

    @Anne Laurie: Thanks. Bonus points if it’s a minority child and the candidate cuts any social service programs that would’ve helped them before he cuts the umbilical cord.

  49. 49.

    Brachiator

    There’s another debate?

    Question from the audience. Yes. Congresswoman Norma Bates (R, Psycho)

    Norma Bates: [voice-over] “Mother, she’s just a stranger”! As if men don’t desire strangers! As if… ohh, I refuse to speak of disgusting things, because they disgust me! You understand, boy? Go on, go tell her she’ll not be appeasing her ugly appetite with MY food… or my son! Or do I have tell her because you don’t have the guts! Huh, boy? You have the guts, boy?
    Rick Santorum: Shut up! Shut up!

  50. 50.

    lamh34

    I’m not watching the debate, but it’s interesting seeing the liveblog of Sullivan vs Adams. In that Santorum vs Paul spat, Sully in his usual Paul-ettio grades the exchange in Paul’s favor, but Adams says that Santorum came away better in terms of being a better debater and comparing it to what Gingrich would do.

  53. 53.

    Soonergrunt

    @lamh34: When I was a student at Holy Family as a kid, we wiped that stuff off at recess. Anybody who walked around with it, particularly off-campus would’ve been thought a suck-up, and any adult who kept it would’ve been thought rather weird except the Sisters, whom we all thought were rather weird anyway.

  54. 54.

    Gex

    @Anne Laurie: Why shame them? Doesn’t the Church just pick the ripest ones for the good Christian adoptive parents and let the little whore know her child died?

  56. 56.

    Soonergrunt

    @Raven: just after I qualified for a 10-point preference. Of course, since neither they, nor anyone in their families nor anyone they actually know has ever served, the Veteran’s preference is an obstacle to packing the civil service with cronies.

  59. 59.

    Soonergrunt

    @Gex: That’s only in other countries where they still have Catholic birthing homes. Not that they wouldn’t bring that shit back in a heartbeat if they could.

  62. 62.

    MikeJ

    @Rita R.: Especially since earmarks are arguably exactly what congress should be doing. Republicans still want an imperial presidency though, so I suppose they’re just being consistent.

  67. 67.

    Chris

    @lamh34:

    Question, are the ashes supposed to be worn all day? Do you have to get the ashes in the morning or can you get the ashes anytime of the day?

    Anytime. You just have to go to mass at some point. The latest service offered at the church across the street from me was at 6:30PM, and there are other churches that offer it even later than that.

  70. 70.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @BenA:

    I never remember seeing the ashes on anyone until I moved here to PA. It basically snapped any ideas I had about Catholics not being as nutty as any other religious cult out of my head.

    You can’t have Mardi Gras (or Carnival, aka carne vale) without the ashes once it’s over.

  71. 71.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Linda Featheringill: Tea-bagger bait. Remember Grifterella sneering about fruit-fly research in Paris, France, Ikidyounot? And it turned out it was an international research project that had made major advances in treating autism?

  72. 72.

    Soonergrunt

    @Raven: I was reacting to your post. The Vet pref isn’t gone as far as I know, but it has been reworked. Now, HR office sorts resumes, and pulls out the qualified ones from the non-qualified ones, regardless of Vet preference. Only after a pool of qualified applicants is made are any preferences applied.

  73. 73.

    Rita R.

    I don’t know if the Fab Four are rusty or what, but this is one of the worst debates of the 20 (21?) they’ve held. Maybe it’ll perk up when the “social issues” are up and Santorum gets to let his freak flag fly.

  74. 74.

    pseudonymous in nc

    Ah, let’s play ‘bash the UAW’ for agreeing with the Big 3 to take the cost of retirement benefits off their books and giving them a better financial foundation after the bailout. Idiots.

    You’d think they know that the UAW counted a lot of Reagan Democrats among their membership in Michigan.

  82. 82.

    Soonergrunt

    @Raven: Due respect, Brother, but fuck you.

    I had a flutter there for a moment. I’m in the running for a GS-12/13 job, and my 10-point preference makes up for the fact that I haven’t been a GS-11 long enough.

  83. 83.

    calliope jane

    I appreciate that all of you are watching so I don’t have to.

    But I can share some ‘fun’ Arizona news. http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/2012/02/20/20120220arizona-legislature-releases-budget.html

    State (republican-controlled) legislature just released the budget — this past Monday — and approved it on Tuesday. Less than 24 hours! Impressive, yes?

    And what does this budget include? Or not include, really:

    – Eliminate the Office of Tourism!

    – Cut funding to health-care providers for the developmentally disabled. Rep. Fillmore, R-Apache Junction, “Invited the private sector to create job opportunities so the disabled could work and reduce dependence on state aid.”

    – Eliminate the State Capital Postconviction Public Defender Office. Clearly the state isn’t executing people fast enough.

    – No money for school construction! In fact, no money to help education of any kind (particularly for all kids who can’t read good. Sen. Shooter (R-Yuma), Senate Appropriations Chair: “Said money isn’t the answer to everything. ‘I think my grandparents learned to read by that time (3rd grade)’ without the advantages of students today.'”

    “Money is not the answer to everything” is going to be my response to their yearly proposal to raise their own salaries (voters have to approve it).

  85. 85.

    Ken

    @Spaghetti Lee: Patrick Bateman, Gollum, and Ward Cleaver as I like to call them.

    More of an Eddie Haskell, surely? Sweet and smarmy to those in authority, but inside just a little sh*t.

  87. 87.

    freelancer (iPhone)

    @Baud:

    They booed the Pill. In 2012. And Ron Paul thinks there are too many immoral sluts in America. And then Mitt brings up out of wedlock births again. Who knew bastards were a national security priority? In 2012. Fer fuck’s sake.

  88. 88.

    Raven

    @Soonergrunt: I’m missin something here. When I said I thought “Modern Management System” meant that the vets preference would go away and you said “just after I qualified for a 10-point preference.” I thought you meant it had gone away. Not sure what it was that that prompted the return fire but, believe me, no harm intended from here.

    ever

  89. 89.

    freelancer (iPhone)

    There’s a flip side to this argument about religious freedom and government enforcement if you’re a prospective gay parent. These straight men could give a fuck about your fitness as a parent and your right to be one. Fuck them.

  90. 90.

    Rita R.

    @Boudica:

    ‘Course not, because they’re idiots or hypocrites or both, so they bemoan children born out of wedlock and the “destruction of the family” at the same time as they slam birth control. Because only unmarried sluts use bc.

  91. 91.

    freelancer

    Earlier Santorum said “The difference between me and the left is that I won’t use the government to enforce my morality.”

    He JUST SAID: “I will defund Planned Parenthood.”

  94. 94.

    Soonergrunt

    @Raven: I thought you knew something I didn’t, which is to say that the Vet’s preference was going away. I was commenting on the irony of the Vet’s preference being discarded right as I was actually getting it, which is just about my luck.
    The FU was meant more sideways and in that (relatively) good natured barracks-roommate kind of way than anything.
    I took no offense, and I certainly meant none. Please forgive and we’ll drive on.

  95. 95.

    Anne Laurie

    Oh, joy, we just got into the Perteck Our Boordors portion of the debate. Ron Paul seems to have come out in favor of shooting undocumented immigrants “for trespassing“.

  96. 96.

    Rita R.

    They are just babbling now. Channels have to be changing all over America. I don’t think any of the candidates will get a bump from what’s gone on tonight, at least not so far.

  97. 97.

    Raven

    @Soonergrunt: FIDO bro.

    I got thrown in jail for underage drinking 10 days after I came home at 19 and 9 months. When I turned 21 the lowered the drinking age in Illinois to 19! That was some irony.

  99. 99.

    Soonergrunt

    @Raven: They raised the drinking age in Colorado from 18 to 21 just three weeks before I turned 18. My cousin got grandfathered in, because she turned 18 two days before the limit.

  103. 103.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Google is lovely today in honor of Heinrich Hertz, who’d have been 155 had he lived that long. Today is also National Margarita Day (true story). After dinner (blue corn enchilada with shredded sirloin in mole sauce) the restaurant owner handed me a “coca cola to go” which was in fact the celebratory beverage in a go cup with a straw. He’s a good man and thus I’m prepared to read the live blogs of the debate.

  107. 107.

    Satanicpanic

    Commander in chief of the military. I have no commander in chief, except my wife badump bum.

  109. 109.

    pseudonymous in nc

    Santorum is remarkably incoherent. Gosh, you mean the best organised opposition to secular Arab dictators is Islamic?

    Well, I suppose you should have thought about that with Iraq, you fuckwit. Christians there haven’t been doing so well for a while.

  110. 110.

    jl

    Santorum does not seem to be aware that the major Iranian opposition groups assert the right of Iran to have a nuclear program.

    Edit: has King challenged them on any of their idiocies?

    Santorum is at it again, spinning fantasies. Rih is nuts, or a vicious liar, probably both.

  112. 112.

    DanielX

    Punchline from Get Your Vote On by David Rees…

    Yeah, but Santorum has the one advantage that money can’t buy: He’s not a prick millionaire named Mitt Romney.

  118. 118.

    DanielX

    @General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero):

    You might want to tone down the drill baby drill if Newticles is listening; he just MIGHT take it the wrong way and be provoked into all kinds of sordid, lewd and lascivious behavior.

    Note to self: lascivious may not technically be an onomatopoeia, but it sure sounds like what it describes, at least to my lowdown dirty mind.

  120. 120.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Raven:

    True story: in about 1966 or ’67, my kid brother painted his VW bug to look like an American flag. Not a political statement, he just thought it would be cool. He was arrested by Chicago cops, tossed in jail. ACLU heard about his case, defended him pro bono. They went to the local Woolworth’s and bought every tacky flag-bedecked mug, t-shirt, ashtray etc. they could find, dumped them on the judge’s bench like the letters to Kris Kringle in Miracle on 34th Street, and he found in favor of my brother.

    Today, that brother is the most wingnutty Tea Partier you could ever hope to find. I cannot find a moral in this story.

  121. 121.

    suzanne

    I went to high school less than a mile from where they’re holding that debate in Mesa. I go to that arts center all the time.

    I’M SO DEPRESSED.

    GET OUTTA MY STATE.

  122. 122.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    Richard Adams:

    Last question is an election-ish question about the biggest misconception the public has about each candidate.

    In Romney’s case, there is no misconception, and so he ignores it and just makes a straight pitch for votes. When King politely enquires why he’s not even pretending to answer the question
    Romney replies: “You get to ask the question you want and I get to give the answer I want.”

    Romney channels the Great Northern Grifter! And he’s totally straightforward about it.

  123. 123.

    jl

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    ‘ Romney replies: “You get to ask the question you want and I get to give the answer I want.” ‘

    I turned off the POS debate, but I am sure Romney said that in that smiling aw shucks way that Godhead Reagan used.

    Or maybe he said it like a bad swindler breaking into an angry panicked flop sweat… Naw, that would never happen.

  124. 124.

    urlhix

    Watching the CNN after party. Son of Eric is a moron (obvious). My wife just got back from a Women For Obama event here in the deep south. They are riled up and ready to mobilize.

  128. 128.

    freelancer

    @suzanne:

    Agreed. I’ve been here six months and given my interactions, I still can’t believe how right wing the state is. Most people I meet are hella reasonable. I’m guessing the winger contingent comes from the huge influx of wealthy, ancient wingnuts this state services in the form of retirees who only interact with each other.

  130. 130.

    freelancer

    @suzanne:

    lol, one of my best friends since I’ve been down here is a total pothead from Tuscon by way of Guadalajara. He’s by no means a Republican. Another close friend is from Glendale and he’s big into guns, but I’ve been able to see his argument. We’ve gone out shooting twice since I’ve been here with a friend and Army vet who has a collection of impressive historical rifles and have since been of the mindset of “When in Rome” regarding AZ’s firearms culture and the Second Amendment. In practice, I’ve seen responsible gun ownership and have made my voice known when I see irresponsibility.

    I have a .22 pistol and a .22 rifle, and I agree that it should be harder to get a gun than to get a driver’s license. That a sick fuck like Jared Loughner with his history of mental illness could collect them with impugnity illustrates the corrective balance that needs to change.

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