Look, ya’ll voted for this, so I hope you get it good and hard:
Ohio Gov. John Kasich said thanks but no thanks to immediate federal disaster relief Saturday, even as governors in Indiana and Kentucky welcomed the help.
Kasich did not rule out asking for assistance later, but his decision means tornado-ravaged towns in Ohio will not get federal aid now and are not eligible at this time for potentially millions of dollars in payments and loans.
The governor said Ohio can respond to the crisis without federal help and he would not ask federal authorities to declare the region a disaster area.
“I believe that we can handle this,” Kasich said while visiting a shelter for storm victims at New Richmond High School. “We’ll have down here all the assets of the state.”
Clermont County Commissioner Bob Proud said he is confident the state can handle cleanup in hard-hit areas, such as Moscow. But he said federal help might be needed in the near future, especially with temporary housing for residents.
I’m sorry a lot of good folks in a time of crisis aren’t going to get the help they need, and as federal taxpayers, it is help they deserve, but let this be an object lesson for all you voters out there. This is what happens when you elect ideologues. We heard all this belly-aching from Democrats that they just had too much of a sad because Obama hadn’t done whatever their pet issue was, whether that be single payer, single handedly closing Gitmo, executing Cheney in front of the MoveOn HQ, or whatever. You don’t vote and the other guys do, and you get the crazy leaders you deserve. And that goes for Republican voters, too. You vote for these chowderheads because you want to have a beer with them or the baby jesus told you to for the fetuses or you have some notion of limited government, this is what you deserve, too. Limited government to Republicans means saying screw my citizens when they get wiped off the map by a tornado, we don’t need no federal help, while at the same time trying to make sure the government isn’t limited from telling you who you can love, what your health insurance provider can offer you, and the like.
So, you know, sorry, Ohio. Sucks to be you. Get your shit together for 2012, or just expect more of the same but this time on a national level.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I predict Kasich walks this back by noon tomorrow. Then gives a speech to the whatever Koch and Palin fest is next on their calendar bragging about how he said ‘thanks, but no thanks’ and they all howl and hoot like frat boys at their first strip club.
Mike G
That was righteous, and much needed.
This isn’t like cheering for your favorite football team, politics has a real effect on people’s lives.
Take a big bite of reality sandwich, Ohio teatards. The big boys in office aren’t “on your side” just because they’re white guys who say they believe the same hateful version of Jeebus that you do. You’re not “in on the con,” and “limited government” is going to be taken out of the hides of people like you.
amk
Fuck you, cole.
/sd pl
crowdmob aka emoprogsMartin
Has the Redstate Trike Force announced their campaign to mail bootstraps to those commies in Moscow?
lamh35
I posted this in a previous thread, but it fits here since Kasich and Ron Paul are essentially two sides of the same coin.
Ron Paul: No Aid for Tornado Victims
I take this shit personally, as a Katrina survivor. I’m not kidding, when I tell you that my current relative ease and stress free lifestyle in owed in large part to FEMA and the help given to me and my family by the Fed government. I lost my car and my apartment thanks to Katrina and we had renters insurance. It’s thanks to FEMA that I was able to rent my first apartment here in DFW while I looked for a job and it’s the reason I was able to buy a car so that I could broaden my ability of getting around DFW and therefore being able to broaden my job hunt. That car BTW, I have today, I finished paying for it last month and now I own it. It’s the first actually bit of property I own and don’t rent.
“FU” Ron Paul and I don’t mean “forget u”
My mom actually moved back to Cincinnati 2 years after Katrina. I have got to ask her what’s going on up there.
Trentrunner
For purposes of discussion, let’s assume that Ohio needs a total of $100 million in disaster relief.
EVERY dollar that Kasich refuses from the Feds has to instead now come out of the state coffers.
Which in Ohio, as in most states, are currently bone dry.
Good move, Ohio. Good move, Kasich, maintaining ideological purity while people live in tents, motels, and relatives’ spare rooms for an extra 6-8 months. Purity!
The Raven
So we can vote for the Republican friends of the banksters, who want to cut Social Security and Medicare, or we can vote for the Democratic President who…is a friend of the banksters, and wants to cut Social Security and Medicare, only less.
Well, pneumonia is better than cancer, I suppose.
I don’t have the heart to vote for a conservative President. State and local elections are another matter.
Brian R.
I’m starting to think Kasich doesn’t want to be governor anymore and is just trying different shit in hopes that he’s forced from office.
ReflectedSky
That seems a little harsh.
Just to clarify, do I get to bellyache about Obama given that I volunteered for him, donated for him AND voted for him?
I agree that people that don’t vote, or don’t bother to find out what/who they’re voting for should suck it up. But isn’t Ohio, specifically, where there was a fair amount of evidence of intentionally limiting voting sites in democratic areas, and long lines of people who waited patiently were deprived of the opportunity to vote?
Also, whenever Republicans do shit like this, it always helps them, doesn’t it? Their blocking access to Federal aid is experienced by a lot of low information votes as, “The government let me down; why should I give it my money?”
Finally, didn’t Kasich massively misrepresent his positions when he was running?
I am hoping (and doing the FSM version of praying) that low information a/k/a “independent” a/k/a “centrist” voters finally get what’s going on and vote and act accordingly. But I don’t think being flattened by tornadoes and then suffering at the hands of their deceitful, only putatively elected officials helps with that process.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Just going to add the obligatory “the Democratic base voted at the same percentage it did most midterm elections” quote. Because I know it’s true, and yet, the Republican base overturned out in 2010 as compared to their normal years.
Betty Cracker
I just hope to god we don’t have a hurricane here in FL before 2014 rolls around and Rick Scott gets tossed out on his sorry ass. I could definitely see that asshole doing the exact same thing.
Maybe I’m overly optimistic, but I’ve got to think the boneheaded moves idiots like Scott, Walker, Kasich and McDonnell are pulling in key swing states will come back to bite the GOP on the ass hard in 2012. I hope so, anyway.
Chuck Butcher
Care to back this up with real numbers showing who showed up and who didn’t?
Litlebritdifrnt
After Hurricane Floyd and my house flooded there was a FEMA rep at my door within two days (Clinton years of course). The nicest lady you would ever want to meet. Wrote me a check that day to replace the heap pump/AC unit there and then (it was September hot as hell). Within a week there was a gang of them, walking around my house evaluating the cost of everything (replacement value), they kept asking “how much to replace this?” As you all know I do not pay full price for anything, everything was from thrift stores or auctions. The nice FEMA people said “Now Mrs. Brit you are not going to be able to do that this time, how much would it cost to buy it new?” I have nothing but praise for the help I got from FEMA (SBA loan in the end as we earned too much for loan free relief). I pity these people that their dumb fuck Governor is cutting them off from the help that FEMA could give. Fuck him with a rusty pitchfork. Mother fucker.
Chuck Butcher
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Not by much, what happened is the beloved middle swapped despite the bunch that want to believe it was traitors on their midst…
JenJen
There were an awful lot of us here in Ohio who did our part and then some, you know. And in 2010, it just wasn’t enough.
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
Well, I realize you don’t give a shit about disaster relief after the series of tornadoes that hit the US in the past week, or the health insurance coverage that congressional Republicans are trying to take away from women, or anything else that doesn’t directly affect you, so, yes, please feel free to vote for your abstract concern about “banksters.”
I’m sure that when the women you know are paying $50 for one month’s supply of birth control pills because the Republicans ensured that their employers could refuse to cover them for “moral” reasons, you’ll be able to tell them that Obama was no different than a Republican and they’ll just nod along because, really, your concerns about “banksters” are clearly more important than their lowly concerns about their own health care.
Mark S.
I’ve been finding politics incredibly depressing. I think we’re going to keep the WH and probably make gains in Congress, but, my god, we’ve spent the last month debating fucking birth control. How are we ever going to tackle our real challenges as long as this clown car party exists?
I’m so sick of these fuckers. 99% of their ideas are so incredibly stupid that no one should take anything they say seriously. These guys would be considered reactionary back in the 50’s, the time they supposedly want to go back to.
Oh, and that is an incredibly dick move by Kasich. I can’t believe the governor’s mansion is being burned down as we speak.
Soonergrunt
@JenJen: Yes, and it is unfortunate that those people like you in the disaster zone get to suffer with the ones that wanted for this and voted for it. If I was one of them, I’d paint “I told you so” on the side of my truck and drive all over the place with it.
Brian R.
@The Raven:
Yes, the Republicans and Democrats are exactly alike, and Obama is “a conservative president.”
Also, the sky is green, water is dry, and you are a shrewd judge of contemporary affairs.
MikeJ
The whole point of this is so Republicans can go into Ohio and say, “what did Obama ever do for you, and why didn’t the feds do like they did for all those [redacted]s down in New Orleans?”
rikyrah
you get the government you vote (or don’t turn out to vote) for.
this is who Kasich is.
geg6
Holy fuck, this guy really is a psychopath. I mean, Corbett sucks donkey dong but I can’t imagine he’d do this to the people of Pennsylvania.
That said, you are right, John. The people of Ohio are now paying the price of their poor choice. I sure hope they learn something from this.
Damn, that’s harsh, what Kasich is doing. Is this some sort of payback for his being humiliated in November over his union busting law? Why would he want his people to suffer? I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THESE PEOPLE!
Linda
Sadly, people have the same gut reactions in voting that they do when the TV goes on the fritz: let’s kick it and see if that fixes things. People were pissed about the economy, and figured that if they threw out everybody, things would be different. And they were right. Republicans count on this type of amnesia.
Linnaeus
Blaming the electorate isn’t going to win people over.
Regnad Kcin
why the hell are ANY federal dollars going to Kentucky for this?
keep the dang gummint out of my FEMA!!!
WyldPirate
Dems lost big in 2010 because young folks stayed home and the Republicans got the old geezers wound up in 2009 over lies about Obamacare and the economy. Minorities stayed home and whites and old people turned out in 2010.
The Dems–including the Obama’s WH team—did a piss-poor job countering the horseshit and lies the Rethugs flung about the economy and health care. Add to that that young folks don’t think about heath care and retirement until they need it, and you have your explanation for the Rethug takeover of the House and in many states.
Quit blaming the wrong people, Cole.
moonbat
It is really like they are asking to have their asses handed to them in November.
Epistemic closure must really be complete if Kasich thinks this principled stance against FEMA is one that the people of Ohio will approve.
What a sadistic worthless tool. It cannot be said often enough: A vote for a Republican is a vote for evil, unprincipled, soulless fools.
Spaghetti Lee
Kasich is most assuredly an asshole, but I can’t get on board with this whole ‘you deserve it because your state voted Republican last year’ thing. I don’t think it’s that different from Republicans lecturing people about how they deserve to lose their home or job to Wall Street greed because they didn’t Plan Better, or Pat Robertson and similar yahoos saying that any sort of disaster is God’s punishment. You don’t lecture or abandon people who need help, you help them, when you can.
This reminds me of all the back-and-forth in the Breitbart threads about how we liberals should be ‘better’ than the conservatives and not stoop to their level. Well here’s a way not to stoop to their level: don’t get all sanctimonious about disaster aid for people who are suffering, just because you don’t think their politics are up to snuff.
Mr Stagger Lee
I’m sure the people of Kentucky and Indiana(good thing Mitch Daniel did not pulled the A-hole move of his buddy Fox boy Kasich) are quite happy to take Ohio’s share of the money. If I was an Kentuckian I would erect a big sign saying “THANKS YOU DUMBASS BUCKEYES” across the river from Clarmont
County.
MikeJ
@moonbat:
He’s counting on the fact that many people will either never hear of his actions or forget them by November. If the feds act or don’t act, many people will blame Obama.
How many people *here* blame Obama for his failure to disregard the 98-0 senate vote against closing Gitmo?
cathyx
Maybe Ohioans can pray for help and the churches will come to the rescue.
Soonergrunt
@geg6: It has to be some kind of conservative purity thing. Because there’s NO political upside to it, unless he’s hoping for a brokered convention and to be picked, but no matter how you get there, he has ZERO chance of ever entering the White House without a guess pass. This is the dumbest damn thing I’ve heard of.
moonbat
@MikeJ: I don’t think most people are that dim. Even as a child I knew that the governor had to ask for federal disaster relief in order to receive it. Failure to ask means failure to receive and that is at Kasich’s door.
New Yorker
Clermont County voted 68%-28% in favor of Kasich in 2010 (of course it did, it’s rural southern Ohio, full of Real ‘Murkans), so I’m going to remind the people there of that good ol’ fashioned conservative value known as “personal responsibility”. You morons voted for this guy. Embrace it.
I’d react differently if a predominantly minority section of Cincinnati or Dayton had been hit by a tornado.
Linnaeus
@Spaghetti Lee:
This.
The Dangerman
@moonbat:
We’re talking low information voters here; by November, the Republicans will blame Obama for the tornados themselves, saying it was the wrath of God for being sinners, etc.
The Raven
@Mnemosyne, @Brian R.:
Well, pneumonia is better than cancer, I suppose. Said it in the first article, too.
The Obama administration has seen the biggest walkback on abortion, ever. It was part of the deals make to pass the PPACA. Why, one might just think that women’s rights were only a bargaining chip for him.
I wonder what he’d bargain emergency aid away for.
The banksters bought Obama, they’ll buy him the election, too. He doesn’t need my efforts, my money, or my vote.
BTW, has anyone looked at what has happened to black unemployment under Obama? Frightening.
rikyrah
that’s how I feel.
Spaghetti Lee
@New Yorker:
Uh-huh. So if it was a Republican president sending out the relief money, and he decided to keep it away from those minority neighborhoods because they didn’t vote for him, you’d be fine with that? Because that’s the precedent you’re setting. We already tried that with George Bush and inner-city New Orleans. Didn’t work out too well, as I recall. You want voting patterns to become a perfectly acceptable determinant to who gets federal help and who doesn’t? Yeah, no way that could backfire.
I mean, seriously, people, what the fuck? If I wanted this sort of spiteful, they’re-not-my-tribe-so-fuck-em sort of politics, I’d be a goddamned Republican.
Mr Stagger Lee
Read the comments in the article, it looks like K-boy is getting roasted and the teabaggers in the county are being hung by their own petard. Maybe Rush, Glenn and Fox will come to host a fundraiser for them, maybe the Kochs and Wall Street will give up a days worth a pay to donate to those baggers. Hey Erick and Freepers can you give a patriot a hand? BAWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Spaghetti Lee
@The Raven:
I like the name of your blog. Very fitting.
rikyrah
1. Black unemployment has ALWAYS been larger than general unemployment. this didn’t begin January 20, 2009.
2. Black unemployment has been exacerbated because of the cuts in Public Employees within the GOP CONTROLLED STATES, since Black folk are more proportionally employed in the public sector.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@WyldPirate: You know, WP, I know the polls, and I totally understand that the Democrats voted they way they normally vote in off years. The question I have is: Why didn’t Democrats realize that they needed to show up and vote in larger numbers in order to keep any progress going? It’s not like the Republicans all woke up on election day, 2010, and went “for some strange reason I feel like voting today.” This had been indicated in the polls for months. I know, because I watched Daily Kos commenters deny that the polls meant what they said.
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
Only if you decide to pretend that the Hyde Amendment that’s been in effect for 30 years didn’t exist until 2009 so you can declare “the biggest walkback ever!” Otherwise, everyone with a brain (ie not you) realizes that PPACA continues following the Hyde Amendment without introducing anything new.
I knew you would lie immediately to try and cover up the fact that you don’t give a shit about disaster relief, or women’s health, or anyone else. And the “but what about black unemployment!” was just the icing on the cake. Like you have ever in your life given a shit about anyone other than yourself and your tiny little weiner.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Then again, I may have just answered my question: They didn’t think anything would happen, so they didn’t feel like they had to show up. I wonder what it will take to make them learn that lesson?
moonbat
@The Dangerman: Please. If all the states around them are getting FEMA relief, I think folks in Ohio are going to catch on. Not everyone, in fact, 73 percent of the population do not have ODS and do have an interest in not seeing or causing additional suffering for people who are the victims of disaster.
Bob
Hey Cole, didja ever think West Virginia would look like a paragon of good government and fiscal rectitude compared to the likes of Ohio, Indiana, Minnesota, Michigan, Virginia, Pennsylvania, etc? We’ll show ’em how it’s done!
That said, I’m sure it was MoveOn apathy that was the cause of the midwest meltdown.
Vanfur
Mr. Cole, I think I understand how you feel. The impulse to invoke that Ohio voters got their “just deserts” or that they should have been “careful for they wished for” is both natural and feels right. But I would urge you to step back a moment, after you your let anger flow in and out, and quietly reflect on the situation. You are not only castigating a majority of Ohioans who voted for Kasich, you are also castigating their children who didn’t, everyone who voted and worked against Kasich (40%+), and their children as well. Anger is powerful, and at times useful, but beware its influence.
Sincerely,
NobodySpecial
I will repeat for Cole, who seems to have taken a stupid pill somewhere in the last little while.
We did NOT LOSE THE ELECTION BECAUSE LIBERALS STAYED HOME.
We lost the election because new voters stayed home and moderates went back to voting Republican.
Is it too much to ask that you stop PISSING ON YOUR ALLIES AND INSISTING IT’S RAIN?
Thank you.
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
But, hey, if Republicans pass legislation saying it’s okay for doctors to decide to let women die rather than end the pregnancy that’s killing them, that’s cool with you, because Obama left the Hyde Amendment in place, so that means Both Sides Do It.
New Yorker
No, that’s not what I said I wanted and not what I want at all. First, if I lived in Ohio, I’d have voted for Strickland, who, I’m guessing, wouldn’t be making extremist principle stances on the backs of people whose houses were blown away in a tornado.
Second, what I’m saying is that if these people aren’t going to get disaster assistance, they have to look in the mirror and ask themselves why they voted for the guy. If it was because they want the ebil gubmint out of their hair, well, congratulations. You got what you voted for. If you voted for the guy because Rush Limbaugh told you that the President was a secret Kenyan Marxist Muslim who would steal your children and turn them into Jesus-hating homosexuals, then fuck you. This is what happens when you vote based on paranoia and xenophobia.
I hope they get their disaster assistance (as their neighbors are getting in KY and IN where the governors are also Republican), but I hope it also leads to some soul-searching on their part. I hope they begin to realize that this is what you get when you vote for anti-government ideologues.
Clark Stooksbury
Kasich has to think of his future career at Fox News.
Rawk Chawk
With this disingenuous, childish post, DougJ continues to distinguish himself as a simple-minded, douche and a hack of Tucker Carlsonian levels.
Tool.
SuzieC
@Spaghetti Lee: Very true, especially since Kasich eked out a win over Strickland of about 50K, or about 49.7 to 49.3%. (Ohioans correct me if I’m wrong.)Yet he has strutted around ever since acting like he won a mandate of epic proportions.
The Dangerman
@moonbat:
Generally speaking, people vote their pocketbook; by November, no one will recall who asked for what relief.
Spaghetti Lee
@New Yorker:
I understand what you were getting at. I see it a lot here and at other sites. What I’m arguing is that we should be the bigger people and work to help them anyway, in part because we don’t want those same tactics turned against us when Republicans have the other hand, in part to help them with their “soul-searching”, but I’d say mostly because helping people who are in trouble is an end in itself.
The Raven
@Mnemosyne: You know, you hate just like a wingnut.
Problem is, all these promises from Obama are like Lucy holding out a football to Charlie Brown.
@rikyrah: Blacks have been hit especially hard by the depression. (I wish I could find the Jared Bernstein article which gave the stats.) In any event, that’s part of the point: the Obama and the Dem leadership didn’t deliver anything like an employment package, didn’t even talk about it very much until the Republicans starting talking it up, and they realized it could cost the election.
There’s reason to vote Democratic and I will do so for House and Senate, and in state and local elections–the Republicans, as Kasich shows us, are even worse. Arguably, there are even reasons to vote for Obama. I, however, do not have the heart to do so.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
I sent a rant about this to a couple of front pagers. The GOP should be tied tightly to Kasich in OH daily until November. Look at those aerial photos. Some people will get FEMA assistance and some will not. Because one
governorFox News Personality plays politics with the lives of his state’s residents. While they are homeless.Before you folks go calling us all stupid fucks who deserve this for electing him, let me remind you that he won in a plurality 49.04% to 47.04%. And in late January of this year, PPP poll results show:
If you could do last fall’s election for Governor
over again, would you vote for Democrat Ted
Strickland or Republican John Kasich?
Ted Strickland ……. 56%
John Kasich ………. 36%
Not sure ……………. 8%
link, including cross tabs.
GregB
John Kasich is an anagram for Hack John Is.
What a vile and petty shit-heel.
Good luck to Mittens or Scrotorum or whatever knave the GOP has as their sacrificial lamb out campaigning in Ohio with that toolbag.
Davis X. Machina
Salvation comes from faith, and belief in the teachings of the Gospel, and not through good works.
Augustine/Calvin 2012!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@New Yorker: Actually the governor of KY is a democrat. Granted, a KY democrat would indeed be a republican almost anywhere else. Still, for the sake of strict technical accuracy, Beshear is a D.
The Raven
@Spaghetti Lee: “I like the name of your blog. Very fitting.”
Croaking since 2008.
BTW, I like your remarks at 29. I agree, even.
Which doesn’t make me any more sympathetic to Obama.
New Yorker
@Spaghetti Lee:
Of course helping people is an end in itself. Of course, the only person who deserves to be (rhetorically) kicked in the head is Kasich.
I reacted with nothing but horror to the news of the tornado outbreak, much as I did last April 27th, when that huge tornado outbreak ravaged some of the most Republican parts of the country.
Rawk Chawk
@Rawk Chawk:
Oops, wrong poster. It’s John Cole who made this douche-ish, disengenuous psot. Yikes, are hits that hard to come by?
The Raven
@rikyrah: Here’s the decline family income 2000-2010 from Jared Bernstein’s blog, link. There’s no “why” analysis, but the numbers are disturbing: between 2007 and 2010, white incomes declined 8.2%, Hispanic, 8.3%, and African-American, 14%.
Blurgh.
rikyrah
for real?
FOR REAL?
there are even reasons to vote for Obama?
YA THINK?
Bubblegum Tate
You know, I recall a bunch of wingnuts proclaiming that we shouldn’t even rebuild New Orleans anyway because it’ll just get flooded again. I can’t wait to hear them argue that we shouldn’t rebuild these towns because they’ll just get leveled by tornadoes again.
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
When you decide to mouth wingnut bullshit, expect me to treat you like one of them. You have zero knowledge, zero credibility, and you’re incapable of seeing anything beyond the end of your own nose. How, exactly are you any different than the average Red State poster?
Problem is, you have no ability to tell the difference between a promise and a law. Believe it or not, it’s slightly harder to reverse a law than it is to not keep a promise. Perhaps this video will help you understand the difference.
Brachiator
@Spaghetti Lee:
But isn’t the point that suffering people are NOT getting disaster aid?
And the Republicans took advantage of an unspoken belief that the Democrats only care about the undeserving poor and nonwhites, and that if only people voted for the GOP, then Real Americans ™ would be taken care of. Some chickens may indeed be coming home to roost.
It will be very interesting to see how this works out.
Mike in NC
It would be great to see a tsunami wipe out many parts of Florida in the next year. Christ I hate that state.
The Raven
@rikyrah: “there are even reasons to vote for Obama? YA THINK?”
This isn’t a rational decision; I stopped having the heart to vote for Obama after word of the not-yet finalized mortgage “settlement” began coming out. We now know the likely fine for stealing someone’s house through legal trickery: $2,000.
The Republicans, on the other hand, seem to be trying hard to outdo each other in right-wing crazy. Romney is the best of the lot, and he doesn’t look even remotely competent.
So..reasons. Sort of.
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
Well, at least you admit it’s irrational for you to make your decision based on rumors and scuttlebutt rather than actual facts and information. Though, again, that makes you different than the average Red State poster in what way?
Brachiator
@The Raven:
So, which Republican do you want to see elected president?
Also, too, when Dubya ran things, the Democrats couldn’t capitulate fast enough.
You claim that Social Security and Medicare and the economy are important to you, so it is odd that you want to make voting decisions that might ensure that things get worse. Very odd.
Nerull
@lamh35: The best part? When Hurricane Rita hit Texas, Paul was quick to request federal aid. Good for me but not for thee.
Brutusettu
My pet issue is not having programs that target civilians for execution at the whim of a few in the executive branch.
Vanfur
@Mike in NC.
Once again, maybe a sentence too far?
James E. Powell
While it may be viscerally satisfying, I don’t think the “fuck ’em, they voted for Kasich!” response is fair or useful. The governor’s race was very close, after all.
But something must be done to hammer home the fact that voting Republican has policy consequences. Far too often and far too much, these people are voting to express cultural feelings, or for a beer drinking buddy, or for an image. Most voters I talk with do not believe that their votes lead directly to policy outcomes. There is too much talk of “both sides” and “no difference” and “we will be screwed no matter what we do.”
I am thinking that the county Democratic Party committees should take out full page ads in the newspapers in the affected areas and explain in “Open Letter to Kasich Voters” that the result of their votes cost their communities millions of dollars in disaster relief that would have been there if they had voted Democratic.
WyldPirate
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I think there are probably multiple reasons for each of the demographics increased or decreased turnout in 2010. I covered a couple in my post upthread and you tapdanced around one in your post. A big one in my mind is that because Obama wasn’t on the ticket it server to depress minority and the youth vote. Repukes probably noticed this and how much it aided them and really doubled down on their voter suppression efforts to accentuate this effect in 2010.
There are likely other reasons, but I just don’t buy the horseshit BJ rhetoric that “emoprogs didn’t get their way on their pet issue and stayed home
Mnemosyne
@Brutusettu:
Good thing Mitt Romney would never order such a thing. And of course Rick Santorum would be sure to close Guantanamo, amirite? After all, it’s not like a Republican would ever invade another country on false pretenses, so we’ll totally be able to trust those guys not to do the same things Obama is doing.
I still don’t know who these fictional Republican candidates are who you think will be so much better on foreign policy than Obama is. You don’t actually think that Ron Paul has a chance in hell of being the Republican nominee, do you?
IrishGirl
@lamh35: Here, here! I was debating a Paulette*/teatard on Facebook earlier and he was actually telling his fellow teatards to vote in the Pres. election for someone who will ruin the economy in order to speed up and somehow lessen the impact of our inevitable economic demise (he thinks we’re going the way of Greece, deficit troll) AND so he and his fellow Paulettes can have their way with the country. I told him he either was flat out insane or incredibly selfish. And that’s what it is, isn’t it. These Paulettes/teatards (Kasich, Santorum, Walker, etc) want what they want…they want their country back and they want to be right and they don’t care who gets crushed along the way. It explains it all, doesn’t it? They would rather be right at the expense of hundreds, nay millions, of other Americans than to admit they might be (actually are) wrong or to accept a world that isn’t centered around them and their tiny, narrow view of the world. So eff them…eff them good and hard. I’m sick of their complete disdain for others and I’m sick of talking to their ignorant and illogical asses.
Loviatar
John, weren’t you the one who twice wanted George W. Bush for you president. FUCK YOU DOUCHE BAG!!!
Wow, what a self-righteous asshole, John for most of his life votes for these buttheads, then has the gall to blame those of us who were on the right side of the situation from the beginning.
I may vote republican this fall just to hasten the collapse.
AxelFoley
@The Raven:
Black unemployment has always been higher than other groups, no matter the president, asshole.
Go fuck yourself sideways, bitch.
AxelFoley
Then don’t, bitch. I hope you don’t vote for him. We don’t need lying asswipes like you.
Midnight Marauder
@The Raven:
You are a joke.
Mnemosyne
Hey, here’s a fun game. Since Obama’s positions are indistinguishable from those of the Republicans, guess who said which of these quotes, Romney, Santorum or Obama:
Three peas in a pod, aren’t they? No possible way to tell which man said which one.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
The 2010 election was completely normal, as first midterms for a new president goes. Democrats voted in normal historical numbers as the party in power for such a first midterm for a dem president. This phenomenon can be seen throughout our history of elections. From Bill Clinton to Ronald Reagan.
The only times it is not that way, when some national issue or tragedy occurs just prior, like JFK getting assassinated, or 9-11 in recent times. The reasons for this predictability is a new president of the other party, does things to piss off voters from the other party, and anger is a strong motivator for making the effort to vote.
Add in to that the first black president, and a landmark law achieved as with the ACA, and you have a blowout like happened in 2010. And for those who keep carping on Obama not defending the ACa enough , or well enough, need to spend some time in the Cspan archives of the many speeches Obama gave in the runnup to the 2010 election, calling out the GOP for lying about his HCR bill passed. Either him or his surrogates even used the L word to describe it. It is nearly impossible to defend something so epic as HCR, when it hasn’t had time to take effect. And easy to lie and demogogue about a new law, and especially when seniors are the audience, with their diminished capacities from advanced age.
Cain
@The Raven:
The butthurt is strong wtih this one.
amk
@Mnemosyne: yup, they are all exactly the same. Fuck obama.
RalfW
Here’s how totally in the pocket of the religious right the TX GOP is:
Now, the larger story is about lesbian Mayor of Houston Anise Parker and how she’s in some trouble (whipped up by Riggle and others) for favoring LGBT equality.
But it was quite a shock to see the GOP having their county convention in a protestant mega-church! Jebus there really is no separation of church and state, it there? Surely not with Texas Republicans.
Oh, and I cannot imagine a name less fitting name of this congregation than “Grace.” DisGrace, maybe.
Lurker
@The Raven:
As a woman whose applications for private health insurance coverage were rejected three times by three different health insurers, I sincerely hope you’re some kind of spoof.
I am a cancer survivor. I need the Affordable Care Act.
James E. Powell
Some Kasich voters appear to be learning the facts of life.
I’m sure that Fox, Rush, et al., will explain how it’s really the fault of the Democrats and that @#$#! in the White House.
Carl Nyberg
Has somebody started a petition calling for Kasich to resign over this?
If I lived in Ohio, I think I could get a bunch of my peeps to sign a petition calling for him to resign.
Kasich is clearly not a serious person. However, he holds a serious job.
It’s time for him to step aside.
This is not the kind of judgement call that gets fixed by apologizing. Reality has test Kasich and he has failed.
Cain
@Lurker:
He’s only worried about bankers not you.
Carl Nyberg
BTW, leaders of civil society should also be asked to call for Kasich’s resignation.
Religious leaders, newspaper editorial boards, politicians, etc.
amk
@James E. Powell:
First they came for the communists,….
Some Loser
Some days I think Liberals will never get over their collective Obama Derangement Syndrome; it’s fun when I’m right.
Some Loser
@Mnemosyne:
Thanks for the link, Mnemosyne. School House Rock is marvelous.
The Raven
@Lurker: I think you will find that the insurance made available to you through the ACA will be beyond your means or not useful.
Every time Obama comes to a conflict between people like you and the big financial firms–and insurance companies are big financial firms–he sides with the financial firms.
The Raven
@Mnemosyne: “Well, at least you admit it’s irrational for you to make your decision based on rumors and scuttlebutt rather than actual facts and information.”
Official announcements, actually. Given O’s history, I expect the fine print on final deal will be worse than what has so far been announced.
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
You mean the insurance she actually has right now, in reality, and is using, thanks to PPACA? Or the insurance that you imagine she has? We already know you have a little trouble distinguishing between reality and your fantasy world where everything Obama has done is intrinsically evil.
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
And your links to those actual announcements are … ? Not links to speculation about what the announcements will be, or analysis of what nutty DU people think the announcements mean, but the actual text of the actual annoucements.
ETA: In your response, please indicate that you understand the difference between a civil case and a criminal case and that making a civil settlement does not, in fact, preclude a criminal prosecution.
TenguPhule
Real Change we can believe in!
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
So apparently my Google-fu is stronger than yours since it took me about 30 seconds to find the settlement. You know, the one that contains this paragraph that you seem to have missed, along with some very important information that I have highlighted for your convenience:
Yes, damn that weak-ass settlement that doesn’t allow any further investigation, prosecution, or settlement! I can see why you hate Obama so!
The Raven
@Brachiator: “So, which Republican do you want to see elected president?”
Do I really need to say, “None of them?” But I’m not worried. The banks bought Obama. The general election is going to be like the Republican primaries, only 1,000 times worse, and the big money will buy it. And when it’s all done, the winner will dance with them what brung him.
“Also, too, when Dubya ran things, the Democrats couldn’t capitulate fast enough.”
Ain’t that the truth.
“You claim that Social Security and Medicare and the economy are important to you, so it is odd that you want to make voting decisions that might ensure that things get worse.”
See, Obama and the Dem leadership isn’t, as far as I can tell, quite as bad the as the Republicans. But they are all going in the same direction; the conservative Dems are just going slower, that’s all. Obama has put Social Security and Medicare on the table. He’s made a number of conservative economic decisions.
But, as I said, the thing that tipped the balance to me was the mortgage deal.
The Raven
@AxelFoley: “Then don’t, bitch. I hope you don’t vote for him. We don’t need lying asswipes like you.”
Always good to see a practical politician at work.
You sure you’re not a Republican?
The Raven
@AxelFoley: “Black unemployment has always been higher than other groups, no matter the president, asshole.”
Between 2007 and 2010, white incomes declined 8.2%, Hispanic, 8.3%, and African-American, 14%, link.
If Obama had made employment the focus of his policy, rather than the ACA or cutting the deficit, then, just maybe…
See, I keep wondering, what has Obama done, beyond be a bit better than his opposition?
amk
@The Raven: You should discover yourself a brand new, virgin country and make yourself the lifetime prezinent awesome evah.
But then, even then, you might whine.
The Raven
@Mnemosyne: oh, for heaven’s sake. Do a bit more homework, hunh? Official statements really don’t cut it.
In theory, yes, the RMBSWG might do something. Maybe. HAMP might have done something. (I believe only 5% of the money allocated to HAMP for homeowners has been disbursed.) Etc., etc., etc.
If the Obama justice department wanted to do something about the abuses of the mortgage system, it could have started in 2008.
This corvid is circling the American Dream. Looking like a big meal soon. Thanks, Obama!
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
Yep, we’re back to The Raven’s fantasy world, where Obama’s actions alone could totally have fixed the black unemployment gap that existed under every previous president. Clearly the issue is that Obama chose not to wave his magic wand, not that we were in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
Some Loser
Please post evidence that banks bought Obama. It is a common complaint amongst emoprogs, but I have never seen one shred of evidence. You claim Democrats and President Obama wants to gut Social Security and Medicare; prove it with hard evidence, or any evidence at all.
When you post something that someone thinks is outlandish, it is customary that you back it up with some form of evidence. The burden of proof is on you. We will not take you at your word; we will scrutinize you and your position. We have no reason not to. We do not know you, we do not trust, and you have not given us reason to do either.
Give us something we can grasp and examine to draw our own conclusions from. Don’t try to goad us into your way of thinking; if you really believe what you are saying, present a strong argument.
This has been a problem with almost every emoprog or firebagger who post on this blog. You want us to believe that our leadership has betrayed us or hate us, and you think that just saying that it is so is a convincing argument. That is not true; we do not believe. We have no reason to believe that. To convince us otherwise requires you to make a solid argument that cannot be easily explained away. You have not done that at all.
C’mon! Just give us some evidence or shut the hell up!
Mnemosyne
@The Raven:
Your “maybes” and “possiblys” might have a little more weight if you hadn’t already been called out for making false claims about PPACA. We’re supposed to believe your judgement about how good this settlement is when you didn’t even know that people who had been denied insurance before PPACA have already been able to get insurance thanks to PPACA?
I have a feeling that details and implementation aren’t exactly your strong suit, so permit me to be skeptical about your ability to judge someone else’s implementation skills.
Yutsano
@The Raven:
He was inaugurated in 2009. How the hell was he supposed to prosecute from a Justice Department not under his control?
Some Loser
@Mnemosyne:
Did s/he really say that? Really? C’mon, nobody should be that stupid.
Do people literally think that you can’t do things at once? Is the knowledge that Obama keep proposing job-creating bills uncommon that someone can really say this?
Dude(tte?), check this shit out: What the Fuck Has Obama Done So Far?
Please do a little research before you attack someone’s character.
Mnemosyne
@Some Loser:
Generally, they claim that Open Secrets says that Goldman Sachs donated lots of money to Obama, but they “forget” to tell you that (a) the list is of individuals who donated and (b) universities donated a LOT more to Obama than financial companies did.
But who knows? Maybe the Raven will manage to point to a different piece of “evidence” this time.
Some Loser
S/he is as almost as bad as the guy who said Democrats and Obama didn’t care about minority women (or uneducated white women).
Some Loser
@Mnemosyne:
Even if Bankers were his biggest donaters, that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s been bought. It can just mean Bankers thought Obama was the better candidate, and who can blame them, looking at the opposition. It is better to fuck a healthy economy than a sickly one.
Some Loser
Before I log off for the night, I want to point and laugh at this quote. Only a few ever benefited from the American Dream. Maybe I am out of line, but while the concept was nice, it never existed, not how like it was advertised. If think the American Dream was stolen from you, you are fool. It was never yours to begin with.
Only a lucky few were privileged of living the American Dream: pulling yourself out of poverty and living a life of luxury. If think such an opportunity was lost because Obama didn’t prosecute some bastards fast enough for you, I don’t know what to say to you. I’ll just go with sorry; I’m sure I’m partly to blame for this, too.
The Raven
@Some Loser: From my viewpoint the evidence is overwhelming and being ignored. Obama’s 2008 campaign contributors. Timothy Geither. Ignoring Christina Romer’s advice. The Bowles-Simpson Presidential Commission, which Obama created, and its members. Obama even appointed Simpson, a long-time opponent of Social Security, to the commission. The mortgage settlement, at least in outline. Etc., etc., etc.
As far as I can tell, every time Obama has a choice between the 1% and the 99%, he chooses the 1%.
I don’t think there was a quid pro quo. But the banks found someone sympathetic and attractive and funded him into the office. Obama believes in cutting Social Security, else, why Bowles-Simpson? Why Simpson? He believes that Medicare is “too expensive.” He believes that the mortgage settlement is going to somehow help..someone. And so on.
This election year is going to see more money spent than any election in history. I am not looking forward to it.
I am tempted to actually do the research, but every time I’ve actually responded to “give us some evidence or shut the hell up,” the research I’ve done, often hours or days of it, turns out somehow not to be enough. Now when someone makes these requests, I start feeling like Charlie Brown when he sees Lucy with a football. So I don’t do it any more, unless it is somehow of value to me personally. I have pay work to do, family obligations, and a home to take care of, all of which are both in more need of my time and are more likely to be accepting of and thankful for my work.
Assuming you are sincere in your desire to learn more of this, you will have to make some effort for yourself. I have named some names–go read some books and well-researched articles. You might start with Jared Bernstein’s blog; he’s a former Obama administration official, he was there, and he is generally sympathetic to the administration. It’s hard to see him as an “emoprog.” And yet his criticisms and economic analysis are damning.
Some Loser
@The Raven:
People generally make these request because the other party is not very convincing. I’m sorry; this is how a discussion works. When you go against a commonly held belief, the burden is on you. If it was a easy and quickly resolved matter, it wouldn’t be called a burden of proof.
I can sort of sympathize with you; I been there, I done that.
I will go check our Jared Bernstein, but your entire time here, you haven’t made any good argument, so I’m skeptical.
The Raven
@Some Loser: “Only a few ever benefited from the American Dream.”
How old are you? It was a substantial group in the period 1950-2000. The USA used to have a large middle class.
The American Dream was never my dream. Yet…
Obama’s campaign slogan was “hope.” And indeed, the nation put its hopes in him.
So where are we now? In the deepest depression in 60 years. In a nation where women and minorities are steadily losing their rights. In a nation where freedoms which stood before its founding are being compromised.
Now, this did not begin with Obama. The history has been documented, and at length. And yet…
I’ve known people who, through uncaring or active malice, have broken the dreams of others. The only other person I have known who has broken as many dreams, and seemed so uncaring of it, as Obama was Ronald Reagan. I’m angry, I’m emotional, and above all I’m just…tired. OK, we’ve had all that. Thanks, guys. Now what else can you show me?
The Raven
@Mnemosyne: “Obama’s actions alone could totally have fixed the black unemployment gap that existed under every previous president. ”
I don’t know if his efforts could have made a difference to black (or white) employment. What I do know is that he didn’t try.
Applejinx
When did The Raven become a full-on dedicated hardworking troll? It just seems a really weird time to push for nihilism and abandonment of the political process. Am I missing something?
sharl
@Applejinx: I’m not totally certain about it, but I think that is a different Raven from the regular commenter with the same nym.
The styles are certainly different…
Schlemizel
So the solution is simple dear friends – to paraphrase my drinking buddy EA Poe:
Quote the raven never more
H Squared
“We heard all this belly-aching from Democrats that they just had too much of a sad because Obama hadn’t done whatever their pet issue was, whether that be single payer, single handedly closing Gitmo, executing Cheney in front of the MoveOn HQ, or whatever. You don’t vote and the other guys do, and you get the crazy leaders you deserve.”
I know this comment is at the bottom of the heap, but I just had to say THANK YOU for this. HELLO WISCONSIN, the same goes to you too.
Frank
@The Raven:
If you don’t think there is much of a difference between Ryan’s Medicare proposal and the tweaks that Obama wants to do, then I’m afraid it is pointless to discuss this issue with you.
One party wants to get rid of Medicare as we know it, while the other party wants to save it.
flukebucket
@sharl: LOL! Yeah, I think he might go back to Stuck in Red if he reads what I am reading.
Jason
I got something to say about the American Dream. My Grandpa was born to immigrants who spoke German, and never spoke English until he enrolled in public school.
Then he was orphaned, and moved into a shed on a neighbor’s farm, and went to work at the age of 10 as a farm-hand.
Then he fell from a tree while shaking down nuts to eat, and broke his thigh, and lost his leg to the hip when gangrene set in, back in about 1905. So he lost his job as a farm hand, and got sent to the county poorhouse, where they taught him to set type, a job you can do sitting on a stool.
At times (hard times indeed) he sold patent medicines door-to-door on crutches.
But he worked hard and was honest and friendly, as opposed to angry and hostile and greedy. So he was able to buy a small business by borrowing a little bit from 22 friends. Eventually he was well off and could take his family to Europe, to meet the family left behind in the old country.
In 1938! Imagine the trip prosperous American kids had seeing the end of European civilization looming over the world. They left Europe from England instead of Bremmerhaven because German flagged ships weren’t going to be stopping in America any more.
But the family has done OK, and was able to help President Obama get elected. I dislike many of the decisions made over the past couple of years, but you know, I think every decision is a complex set of trade-offs, very complex indeed, and so I’m willing to allow as how he is making the best trade-offs for the WHOLE Country – as opposed to bankers, the unemployed minority community, etc.
Does anyone seriously think that if McCain had been president that real unemployment wouldn’t have hit 25 or 30%? How much higher could deficit hawk republicans run that statistic?
And what kind of election climate would we be having in that case? With deficits more important than starving kids?
FU, Raven, and all your red-neck pals telling each other lies about Presient Obama! Don’t try to sell that shit around me!
Some Loser
@The Raven:
He didn’t try? Prove that! With Evidence! We’ve been over this already, haven’t we?
That is nonsense talk to us; we need more than your word that this is true. And you must be able to refute our own evidence. Please, if you can’t do something as simply provide evidence for your ass-backwards attacks on Obama, then leave. I’m not trying to bully you, but I can see that you won’t be able to spend your time here productively.
Some Loser
And also Raven, I am reading Jared Bernstein’s blog, and I have not seen one evidence of Obama’s guilt. The blog has been very Obama-friendly. Maybe I am at the wrong blog (maybe there were two Jared Bernstein that worked with the White House), or maybe the wrong time period. Please link to the article or time period where Jared Bernstein provide the eye-opening evidence because I’m just not seeing it.
To those others who are reading this thread, please check out Jared Bernstein’s blog. His blog has been a good read so far, and he has not been hostile to our team (and hasn’t fallen into ‘Both Sides Do It’ talk).
Rafer Janders
@James E. Powell:
I love this line from that article, which perfectly expresses their unconscious assumptions:
He was only supposed to cut the money for the brown people! Not for Real Amurkins!
Also, too, this is just delusional:
And, of course, the conclusion is perfect:
As always, they want the Bear Patrol, but they don’t want to pay the taxes that funds the Bear Patrol. Things should be free! Things for me, that is. Things for the shiftless minorities should be cut.
Another Halocene Human
lol’ing so hard over here
it’s all about whose ox is being gored, as ever.
Jado
Here’s a thought experiment
If your house was wiped off the map by a tornado, and you go with your driver’s license to the polling place to vote, does your now-incorrect driver’s license count as legitimate documentation proving you live in the district? Your house is gone – do you live where you say you live?
I see a lot of “voter fraud” coming down the pike from this tragedy
Jimbo316
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I remain surprised about Kasich’s tin ear and agenda. He was a Congressman for nearly 20 years; you would think he’d be pretty deft at sucking the Federal tit. But I guess he’s decided just to be an ideological curmudgeon. His popularity has been on the downslide for quite a while now. This won’t help him statewide.
The Raven
@Some Loser: “I will go check our Jared Bernstein, but your entire time here, you haven’t made any good argument, so I’m skeptical.”
Thank you for your courtesy. The names I have been called here astonish me.
As for arguments, doesn’t Bowles-Simpson count? That was a Presidential Commission. Obama didn’t have to create it, or make long-time Social Security opponent Simpson one of the chairs.
You might also take a look at Matthew Y’s review of Scheiber’s The Escape Artists: How Obama’s Team Fumbled the Recovery. At least by Y’s account (I haven’t seen the book yet), it’s a fairly mild account of the matter, and attributes most of the failings of the Administration to handle the new depression to error rather than malice, unlike Ron Suskind’s account, and Yglesias is fairly conservative. Nonetheless, the story, at least in summary, is a devastating account of failure.
The Raven
@Applejinx: t-3089531″>Applejinx: “When did The Raven become a full-on dedicated hardworking troll? It just seems a really weird time to push for nihilism and abandonment of the political process. Am I missing something?”
Maybe what I wrote in post 58 of this thread:
It’s not that I’m abandoning the process–I’m just disgusted with the Obama administration. I also don’t think my not voting will matter a lick: the amount of money that is going to be poured into this campaign–that has already been poured into this campaign–is astonishing.
Anyhow, this thread is old–there have been something like a dozen threads started since this one. I’m outta here!
Croak!
Evolving Deep Southerner
@The Raven: @sharl: I’m pretty sure Raven (without the article prefix) is a far different poster than “The.” It caught me up short on another thread before I realized.
What about it, formerly-stuckinred. You got your ears on?