Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We still have time to mess this up!

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

The lights are all blinking red.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Joe Biden can go out like FDR, not by dying in office, but by crushing the fascists.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”

“But what about the lurkers?”

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Racial Justice / Post-racial America / The Sad But Humorous Story Of Malcolm the 11th

The Sad But Humorous Story Of Malcolm the 11th

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On twitter tonight:

And you thought epistemic closure was a thing of the right? The notion that Jon Hamm, because of his role in Mad Men, can not talk about injustice is as stupid as assuming the actors who played SS soldiers in Schindler’s List are anti-Semitic.

For fuck’s sake.

*** Update ***

The saddest thing about this is it was someone I liked to read, someone who made me think out my very sheltered white box- someone who said shit like this:

He’s right. He’s fucking right. Yes, what Limbaugh did to Fluke was horrible and unprecedented, but it is nothing compared to the three year assault Limbaugh and his boys have done on Michelle Obama. I may not have agreed with everything he said, but he made me think. But the moment he was challenged, he reverted to douchebag. That’s pretty sad for a brave truth-teller.

Hell, I’d give him front page status if he could get his shit together. I like a fight. I like an argument. I like different viewpoints.

But I have no respect for people who cut and run or people who throw bombs and then at the slightest returned fire wet themselves and scream “game over.”

Fucking pathetic.

Reader Interactions

191Comments

  2. 2.

    Hunter Gathers

    Alec Guiness once played Hitler, and was also Obi-Wan Kenobi. By that poor, confused creature’s logic, Alec Guiness killed millions of Jews with his lightsaber.

  3. 3.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I am not sure I should even comment on this thread. The last time I did, the comment and the thread disappeared.

  4. 4.

    freelancer

    In the movie “The Laramie Project” which is an HBO movie of a play about the theater troupe that wrote a narrative about Laramie Wyoming in the aftermath of Matthew Shepard’s murder, at one point, a University of Wyoming Drama major Jedadiah Schultz played by Jeremy Davies is talking about how when he played a gay character in their production of Angels in America, his parents refused to attend in protest. When he mentioned that the previous semester he was the lead in Macbeth and played a Murderer, they had no objection to attending.

    If the narrative is in favor of librul causes, there’s no daylight between the “bias” and those perpetrating it. If it’s ambiguous to their narrative, it’s “drama” or “Hollywood”.

    I can’t wait ’til Monday comes around when they decide to wage a scorched-earth war on Tom Hanks.

  5. 5.

    Shalimar

    He blocked you for making him feel stupid. Given the “brilliance” of his argument, I’m guessing he blocks a lot of people.

  7. 7.

    freelancer

    While they’re at it, are there any other culturally beloved icons or institutions of modern day life in America that everyone else considers acceptable and put to rest that these medieval culture-warrior fucktards haven’t tried to kick in the junk or light on fire yet? It’s a long way until November, so I would just like to try and start a list, if possible. What is the most American, everyday innocuous thing that, tomorrow, you couldn’t imagine wingnuts self-immolating over, yet wouldn’t be surprised if it made the news cycle?

    I’ll go first and say “wi-fi” or scam infomercials as paid programming on TV. Or maybe the implementation of calorie content in menus at restaurants and fast food joints, which Americans will quickly learn to gloss over.

  8. 8.

    Warren Terra

    Who the heck is this guy, that you need to point his Wrongness out to the rather large readership of your blog? Isn’t this basically the Twitter version of Nutpicking? I mean, yeah, not this guy’s finest hour – but has he got the profile that a few inglorious tweets are a big deal, worth rubbing his nose in them?

  9. 9.

    Amir Khalid

    There are probably people who still recoil from Ralph Fiennes because he was Voldemort and Amon Goeth.

  10. 10.

    Spaghetti Lee

    Lotta people out there don’t really have the whole fiction vs. reality thing down. Personally, I think confusing the two is an insult to fiction.

  11. 11.

    Citizen Alan

    Crap like this is why I am not on Twitter, do not follow anyone on Twitter and plan never to be involved in any capacity with Twitter — because if I were, eight or nine hours every day would be spent on reflexive put-downs of abject morons.

  13. 13.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Yes, yes, and Omar Sharif isn’t really Egyptian, he’s a Russian, because he played Doctor Zhivago.

    It’s difficult to top Hunter Gatherers at 2 for the most obvious analogy for the feeble minded such as Black Canseco.

    I might add that Alec Guiness was not just a guy who killed Jews with a lightsaber, he also was a Chekist and a Mooslim Prince!

  14. 14.

    freelancer

    Okay, I feel dumb because I now see the larger point of the post is that ideological extremism can be just as big on the left side of the spectrum in blinding you from reality as it is on the right side, as we often highlight. We should be servants to truth, not to rigid, dogmatic thinking.

    That being said, anything wrong with the truth in the two previous things I’ve said so far?

  15. 15.

    freelancer

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It’s a long way until November, so I would just like to try and start a list, if possible. What is the most American, everyday innocuous thing that, tomorrow, you couldn’t imagine wingnuts self-immolating over, yet wouldn’t be surprised if it made the news cycle?
    __
    I’ll go first…

    Stop it. It could be something like socks. This scares me and I do need to sleep.

    You know, Jesus said in the Bible that the only approved place to deposit a man’s seed was in your married wife’s uterus. Not on the ground, not in some harlot, not in a condom, and certainly not in a…

  16. 16.

    Sly

    @Amir Khalid:

    There are probably people who still recoil from Ralph Fiennes because he was Voldemort and Amon Goeth.

    Wouldn’t blame them for the latter, actually. Fiennes portrayal of Goeth was disturbingly masterful. It was like he took everything that Hannah Arendt wrote about the banality of evil and distilled it into a single facial expression.

    One of the greatest Oscar thefts of all time.

  20. 20.

    Little Boots

    But I have no respect for people who cut and run or people who throw bombs and then at the slightest returned fire wet themselves and scream “game over.”

    me, neither.

  22. 22.

    Loviatar

    Fuck, I’d give him front page status if he could get his shit together. I like a fight. I like an argument. I like different viewpoints.

    .

    I call Bullshit.

    ——–

    I came over here during the “Jane Hamshers of the left” debacle when you got your ass handed to you by Jane. Your arguing style then and now is to stick to one point and then do a lot of yelling. No nuance, no building of a case just a bunch of self-trolling.

    I stay for Doug and some of the others; Doug is your best FP, he actually builds a case with valid points and responds with nuance and just enough aggression. ABL is fucking useless, a bomb thrower who even when she is right you hate having to agree with her. Fucking useless.

    Everyone else falls in between, you’re closer to ABL than Doug.
    .

    P.S.

    I actually agree with you on this issue.

  27. 27.

    Little Boots

    and I do really agree with you. is there anything lamer than the twitter cut off?

  30. 30.

    asiangrrlMN

    Oranges are delicious and nutritious. Plus, GS Trefoils. Nom nom. I ran out of Lesbian Cunnilingalongs (Tagalongs) earlier. ::sad face::

  34. 34.

    Martin

    Cole needs to read his comments more. Me 2 days ago:

    Republicans always punch down. Katrina was the fault of gays. The housing crisis is because of black people. They always, always, always punch down. That’s what they do.
    __
    So the problem can’t be that he punched down. The problem is that our prejudices say it’s okay to punch down. It’s okay to shit on the poor, on black people, on gays, etc. The only mistake Rush made was to punch someone that white middle class women identify with – a white Georgetown law student – she’s aspirational. If Sandra Fluke was black, do you think the backlash would have been this bad?

  35. 35.

    Martin

    @freelancer:

    It’s a long way until November, so I would just like to try and start a list, if possible. What is the most American, everyday innocuous thing that, tomorrow, you couldn’t imagine wingnuts self-immolating over, yet wouldn’t be surprised if it made the news cycle?

    Self-immolate over like tire gauges? Or more like public schools? Maybe Dunkin Donut scarfs?

  36. 36.

    John Cole

    @Loviatar: Really? You want to re-litigate the notion that Jane Hamsher was nothing more than a bomb-thrower for the left?

    I thought I pretty much won that argument by default, as she pretty much is a non-entity these days, and when she is, she knocks herself out running into windmills.

    And for the uninitiated, the phrase I used was “the Jane Hamsher’s of the left,” much as I would say the “Rush Limbaugh’s of the right.” I’d point you to the thread, but the new google algo is all fucked up.

    You want to fight this battle again, knock yourself out. I will win again. And again.

    Where is Jane these days, btw? And I say that with all sincerity, because I just have not heard from her in what seems like years.

  40. 40.

    Little Boots

    @John Cole:

    actually not, it’s just a thing.

    you are prickly, by the way. everyone’s pretty much agreeing with you and you still seem kinda pissed.

  42. 42.

    Martin

    @asiangrrlMN: Shit, how’d I forget about the girl scout cookies!

    I do keep expecting them to turn against Santa for being insufficiently Jesusy.

  51. 51.

    Martin

    @asiangrrlMN: And I have to add, when I had my daughter read the statement about the girl scouts from that Rep, her response was “What the fuck is wrong with him?!”

    She’s a girl scout. And 11. First f-bomb I’ve heard her drop. I couldn’t not laugh.

  52. 52.

    Canadian Shoggoth

    @freelancer:
    I would guess that would be apple pie. The Presidents agricultural policies encourage both apple miscegenation and the eugenics of fruit, undermining this former family-bonding dessert. Or heck, something about green bean casserole descrimination.

  55. 55.

    asiangrrlMN

    @Martin: That’s awesome! Out of the mouth of babes, etc., etc., etc. I bought GS cookies for the first time in years because of this nontraversy.

    @Yutsano: You need a chalkboard to connect your points.

  56. 56.

    Yutsano

    @Canadian Shoggoth: Apple is the state fruit of Washington. We just approved gay marriage. Therefore apples will make you teh ghey. QED and suck it libz!

    @Martin: Please invite me to your daughter’s wedding. It sounds like it will be a helluva barnburner!

  58. 58.

    Loviatar

    @John Cole:

    I’m not trying to re-litigate anything.

    I’m just pointing out to you that your arguing style hasn’t changed in the over 6 years that I’ve been reading you, you still fixate on one talking point and then repeatedly yell it as if that will change minds. When no minds are changed you then end the argument by calling your opponent a troll. This arguing style is clearly a reflection of your latent Republican tendencies.
    .

    P.S.

    Jane clearly won that argument.

  60. 60.

    Yutsano

    @Loviatar:

    I’m not trying to re-litigate anything.

    P.S. Jane clearly won that argument.

    One of these things is not like the other…

  61. 61.

    Little Boots

    calling your opponent a latent Republican is infinitely more clever than calling them a troll.

    got it?

  64. 64.

    Anne Laurie

    @Martin:

    Cole needs to read his comments more.

    You are correct, but heck — Cole doesn’t even read the front-page posts consistently!

  65. 65.

    Loviatar

    @Yutsano:

    One of these things is not like the other…

    I’m not re-litigating the argument, I’m pointing out that he was incorrect in his assessment of the argument.

    Please be more precise with your comments.

  66. 66.

    Martin

    @Yutsano: Wedding? That presumes I haven’t killed all of her boyfriends with my favorite shovel. That seems unlikely.

    @dead existentialist: I’m pretty laid back about such things. Fuck happens. But fucking does NOT happen. See: Dad’s favorite shovel. My only admonition against swearing is that if they swear, they get in the habit of swearing, and if they get in the habit of swearing, then they drop f-bombs in english class, and then they’re in the shit, and I’m not bailing their ass out of that mess. Oh, and nana is uncool with the swearing and she WILL give nothing but underwear for christmas if you piss her off. Of that, I know all too well.

  67. 67.

    Sly

    @Loviatar:

    Jane clearly won that argument.

    Millions of people currently have health insurance and medical care who would otherwise not have it had the effort to pass the ACA failed. And millions more will have it as the provisions of the ACA are fully realized in the coming years.

    I’m pretty sure they’re the ones who “won the argument.”

  71. 71.

    Yutsano

    @Loviatar:

    I’m not re-litigating the argument, I’m pointing out that he was incorrect in his assessment of the argument.

    The last time I checked that’s exactly what re-litigating is. Jane is a big girl. She doesn’t need you coming to her rescue against the big meanie John Cole. So get over yourself.

    Please be more precise with your comments.

    Okay. Anyone who shares common cause with Grover Fucking Norquist is neither a progressive nor a liberal. That precise enough for you?

  72. 72.

    Loviatar

    @Sly:

    1st rule of arguing, know what you’re talking about other wise you’ll look foolish.

    John and I are not discussing the PPACA issue, so right now you’re at Herman Cain’s level of foolishness.

  73. 73.

    Yutsano

    @Martin:

    Wedding? That presumes I haven’t killed all of her boyfriends with my favorite shovel. That seems unlikely.

    One is gonna win you over. One always does. Or she elopes. It would, as always, be irresponsible not to speculate.

  79. 79.

    dead existentialist

    @Yutsano: Can you imagine what Peggy Noonan’s reaction would be if her daughter brought home a Martin?

    (I’m thinking that somebody would jump on the “shovel-ready” bandwagon.)

  81. 81.

    Loviatar

    @Yutsano:

    The last time I checked that’s exactly what re-litigating is. Jane is a big girl. She doesn’t need you coming to her rescue against the big meanie John Cole. So get over yourself.

    Again, I’m not re-litigating that argument that John made a fool of himself by broadbrusing Jane with a label she didn’t deserve. I’m also not re-litigating the fact that when called on it, he doubled down with the most idiotically twisted explanation in a mammoth 500+ comment thread that ran over several days. I’m just pointing out that he was wrong in his assessment on who won the argument.

  83. 83.

    Martin

    @Yutsano:

    One is gonna win you over. One always does.

    See, I’m having trouble seeing that happen. I have to assume that the first one won’t win me over. Therefore, I have to assume he’s in a grave under the radishes. I then have to assume my daughter is afraid for #2 to meet me – until he tells her she looks fat in those pants and then she’ll bring him home, and he’ll wind up under the lemon tree. She’s not dumb. By #3 she’s see the utility in my favorite shovel (it really is a great shovel, btw) but I’m thinking that by that point word has spread and #3 is not confident meeting me. That sure as fuck won’t win me over, so he’s probably under the hydrangeas. Maybe under the grapefruit – but I’m not sure it’s going to be sturdy enough to absorb that much nitrogen – it’s new. So I’m leaning toward hydrangeas. I’m then expecting #4-#7 or so to happen without my knowledge as a series of fleeting relationships. So I think we’re looking at #8 or so at the earliest. And I’m not sure I’ll be able to hold out that long undetected by the authorities. If not, I’ll likely be in no position to help mail out wedding invites.

    You see the dilemma here.

  84. 84.

    Yutsano

    @John Cole:

    Look. I miss tings.

    Tings probably misses you too. Maybe you should call once in awhile.

    @Martin: This oddly makes me happy that I have zero desire to spawn.

  85. 85.

    Little Boots

    I like Jane Hamsher, but she goes off the rails sometimes, especially about Obama. and that is pretty much the extent of the big fight that she and John had. that is it, I think.

  86. 86.

    Martin

    @Yutsano: Well, I’ve been told this will pass, but I seriously think those people underestimate how much of an asshole I am.

  89. 89.

    Yutsano

    @Martin: Upossible. U r ebil gubmint worker like me. I never underestimate our assholishness. Especially when I get to send someone down the rabbit hole of endless transfers. That usually makes my night.

  90. 90.

    Little Boots

    come on loviater, let’s bitch about john cole. it’s 4 in the morning, and I’m bored.

  91. 91.

    Loviatar

    @Little Boots:

    Again, know your facts people. John and Jan’s fight was in 2006, well before Obama was a twinkle in any little Obot’s eye. Hell John was still a Republican.

    Here is the post.

    Who Needs Ann Coulter?

    comment 182 is where he first makes the infamous “the Jane Hamsher’s of the left” comment. Read it, its hilarious for his doubling down, everyone calls him on it and he refuses to admit he was wrong.

  92. 92.

    Little Boots

    john are you actually awake?

    so what made you switch. you were kinda set up with the whole wingnut thing? what made you turn?

  93. 93.

    Loviatar

    Great quote from the comment thread:

    This man doesn’t understand why the phrase “the Jane Hamshers of the left” includes Jane Hamsher (in English, lest we forget). He doesn’t understand that!
    And he thinks you’re stupid if you do. Ah the John Coles of this world! The Coles you will always have with you. One wants to like him but I think this is not really on. Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish.

  94. 94.

    Loviatar

    Another great one:

    Long time listener, first time poster. Two points for Cole:
    1. When you made the ridiculous claim that the “Jane Hamshers” does not include Jane herself, you jumped the shark in this little kerfluffle.
    2. Your intransigence WRT 1. above, in the face of many many commenters indicating that what you wrote was not interpreted by any casual or reasonable observer to mean what you claimed you intended………well, let’s just say you look like a whiny ass titty baby afraid to admit a minor screwup. How hard is it to clarify your remark by changing it, rather than engaging in these “It was perfectly clear, I know what I meant” shenanigans. It was not clear, in fact you claims that “Jane Hamshers of the left” would not indeed include Jane, is an embarrasment to your credibility.
    I used to read you with the assumption that you were indeed a reasonable observer. But you rev’ed er up, popped the clutch and launched off that ramp right over the shark pit. Congrats, you’ve sold out integrity for the sake of partisan ideology. Well done, sir, well done indeed. As if there were a shortage of hacks. Jeebus.

  96. 96.

    Yutsano

    @Loviatar:

    Again, know your facts people.

    John and Jan’s fight was in 2006

    Hell John was still a Republican

    Sigh. Fail. JC crossed over into the light after Terry Schiavo. That was 2005.

  97. 97.

    Little Boots

    john, you don’t have to justify yourself to anyone, but that is kinda something. what do you say to Loviatar?

  100. 100.

    Alexander

    Re the topic:

    John, you told him that a lot of the time he sounds like an idiot. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that someone would unfollow you when you say something like that, even if it’s said in the process of making a good point (as it was in this case.)

    Not that I’m saying you shouldn’t say stuff like that; I’m not a civility crusader. It just seems likely that his reaction was due to that, rather than the fact that you were disagreeing with him.

  101. 101.

    dirge

    Umm… So I’m on board with the idea that Black Canseco’s initial comment there is pretty spectacularly boneheaded, but I think I’ve gotta call a foul on John Cole here too.

    I’m looking at three John Cole tweets that start at the appropriate level of snark but move on to a Godwin Violation before John’s had any response from Black Canseco. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect anybody to respond in a civil manner after you’ve just gone Godwin on them.

    I’ll admit that I haven’t bothered to do any background research on this, but at first glance I think John owes a qualified apology to Black Canseco.

    That said, obviously Black Canseco also owes an apology to every sentient being on the planet for, however briefly, failing to rank among their number.

  102. 102.

    Little Boots

    starting to get why John is so prickly.

    not that he’s wrong. he’s usually right, but he has some stuff he should just apologize for and move on.

  103. 103.

    Loviatar

    @Little Boots:

    not that he’s wrong. he’s usually right, but he has some stuff he should just apologize for and move on.

    As I said above its an indication of his latent Republican tendencies. They don’t apologize.

  105. 105.

    Little Boots

    I still admire John enormously. I think he’s one of the good guys. but if he maligned Jane Hamsher, well, just admit it and move on.

  106. 106.

    Little Boots

    I have to sleep.

    Loviatar you make me think, and at 4 in the morning I’m not sure I appreciate that, but I suppose I should thank you.

  107. 107.

    Loviatar

    @Little Boots:

    It’s hard for anyone to apologize.

    I agree it is hard to apologize, its nothing to be ashamed of that he finds it difficult. What I can’t get is the doubling down on the stupidity, if he doesn’t want to apologize fine, then just shut up. Instead we get the Limbaugh (my word for anyone who doubles down on stupidity).

  108. 108.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Yutsano:

    OT, from the last thread. I love garlic as much as the next person, I’m around korean folk alot, but garlic in curry is just wrong.

  111. 111.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    Herm. Not telling you how to talk, but, if you told me that “a lot of the time” I sounded like an idiot, I’d be pretty pissed. “Once in a while,” I can deal with.

    Why does it matter? It’s like, if I’m stone-stupid once in a while, well, that’s called being human. If I’m stone stupid “a lot”, I’m your stupid friend who you like anyway. And I don’t need someone who thinks I’m their stupid friend.

    (Not defending BC’s statement. It *is* stupid. Just suggesting that I’d have had a bad reaction to your responses.)

  112. 112.

    dirge

    @Little Boots: @Loviatar:

    Oh crap. I hope nobody thinks my “John owes an apology” comment is in any way aligned with these jackasses. Seriously, I was just trying to make a small point about etiquette.

  114. 114.

    wilfred

    I like different viewpoints.

    So this guy gets sent to prison and on this first night there’s a talent show. Another prisoner gets up and starts rattling off numbers, “16!…28!…40…and wait!…18”! All the while the prisoners are rolling in the aisles – the last number brings down the house. The new guy is completely flummoxed by all this so he asks an old lag what’s behind it. The old guy tells him that in the prison library there’s only one joke book and that everybody has read the book a hundred times and knows the jokes by heart. Because of that it’s not necessary to tell the joke, only to say the number. The new guy sees it as a way to get in good with the prison population so he goes to the library and starts learning the best jokes, the ones he heard that first night. Soon comes another talent show. The new prisoners jumps on the stage and starts with the tried and true, “16!” – nothing, no response at all. “29!” he tries, zero, not a murmur. He runs through them all, with no response at all, not even from the best of them all: “18”. Dejected and booed off the stage he goes back to the old con and asks him went wrong – after all, he ran through the same list he heard. “Oh”, says the old guy, “you don’t understand. It’s not the number, it’s how you say it”.

    Thus blogs.

  116. 116.

    Keith G

    But I have no respect for people who cut and run or people who throw bombs and then at the slightest returned fire wet themselves and scream “game over.”

    That is exactly the concern I had about a certain front pager.

    Funny that.

    ::Blinks::

  117. 117.

    Montarvillois

    Today Gail Collins refers to the Limbaugh/Fluke controversy as “slutgate”. Cool.

  119. 119.

    samara morgan

    yeah! Cole made a chirpstory!
    why dont you sic Black Conseco on Patterico?
    Is this racist?
    Obamaganda
    prolly unbright Patterico was thinking of propaganda, but Uganda is the first association i got.
    and they say they arent racists……its just subliminated, but its always with them.

  120. 120.

    AxelFoley

    @John Cole:

    @Loviatar: Really? You want to re-litigate the notion that Jane Hamsher was nothing more than a bomb-thrower for the left?
    __
    I thought I pretty much won that argument by default, as she pretty much is a non-entity these days, and when she is, she knocks herself out running into windmills.
    __
    And for the uninitiated, the phrase I used was “the Jane Hamsher’s of the left,” much as I would say the “Rush Limbaugh’s of the right.” I’d point you to the thread, but the new google algo is all fucked up.
    __
    You want to fight this battle again, knock yourself out. I will win again. And again.
    __
    Where is Jane these days, btw? And I say that with all sincerity, because I just have not heard from her in what seems like years.

    I like this new take-no-shit-from-trolls Cole.

  121. 121.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Martin: Your logic assumes that no boyfriend can overcome the shovel.

    ETA: @Loviator – Grover Fucking Norquist!

  122. 122.

    MikeJ

    @Martin:

    Maybe under the grapefruit – but I’m not sure it’s going to be sturdy enough to absorb that much nitrogen – it’s new. So I’m leaning toward hydrangeas.

    Hydrangeas change colour based on soil pH. Be very careful with what you feed them or you might tip any investigators.

  123. 123.

    James B Franks

    No John there is one big difference. A politician is fair game for these types of attacks, it comes with the position.

  124. 124.

    Lojasmo

    “coed”? Really? She is a law student at Georgetown. Women have been going to school there for a hundred years or so. What a patriarchal dick.

  126. 126.

    iriedc

    I dropped BC from my twiitter feed months ago, because even though he’s smart he goes into whiner mode a lot. I have young children so I get enough whining.

  127. 127.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @Montarvillois: I have come to have great respect for Ms. Collins. While I still wish she would grab David Brooks by his scrawny neck and shake him into reality, I understand her way is the silent knife hidden by a cheery smile.

    This column was pure gold — slutgate, burka futures, Mittworld, the sly reference to MItt’s pandering to the electorate, the constant references to dog-on-the-car-roof and why we really don’t know the true story of Seamus’ torture.

  128. 128.

    The Tragically Flip

    I wouldn’t try and claim that Fluke’s race isn’t helpful to the size of the outrage bomb exploding in Limbaugh’s fat face, but I do think it’s somewhat relevant to remember that Imus was brought down for a racist and sexist comment made toward a black women’s basketball team.

  129. 129.

    Royston Vasey

    oh fuck, I’ve had enough of this. I’
    m off to bed. Did you know it’ s2:20am here in NZ. Go and boil your bottoms, son of silly people…….

  130. 130.

    squiregeek

    We’ve been complaining and writing to sponsors for years, but no one cared. This time the president weighed in and changed everything. It brought the biggest spotlight in the country to bear on that fat bigot.

    But Obama couldn’t have done this with the Magic Negro thing without looking thin-skinned. Bringing the issue around to his daughters gave him cover and whe was able to strike a serious blow.

  131. 131.

    existential fish

    Now that disgust at Rush has reached a critical mass that we’re seeing results, Why bother finger pointing over who was there first?

    Because the reason anyone knows about Rush’s awful racist or union or misogynistic attacks is because there’s groups monitoring all of them. They’re all awful.

    This “I was there first” stuff is meaningless.

  132. 132.

    Trabb's Boy

    I don’t know, Cole. I think you’re in the wrong here. He made a comment, which might have been made more carefully, about someone whose fame is deeply connected with shitty attitudes using that fame to demonstrate that he, personally doesn’t have shitty attitudes. There’s an argument that you take the role, you’re adding to the problem. I don’t know if I agree with that, but it’s not a ridiculous point.

    You immediately send three twits berating him, calling him an idiot, strawmanning what he said. I’d block you too. You weren’t arguing. You were being a belligerent asshole.

  133. 133.

    The Tragically Flip

    @James B Franks:

    “A politician is fair game for these types of attacks, it comes with the position.”

    Accepting this for sake of argument, since when did First Ladies become fair game?

    Not that Michelle is unique in this category, Hillary absorbed enough hate for any 4 controversial Presidents, but at least Hillary arguably took an active role in major policy which could explain some of it (maybe 5%). Michelle has played the classic FLOTUS and the only explanations for the hatred directed at her are a) racism and b) the GOP’s scorched earth mentality.

    As for Laura Bush, I do remember some talk of her fatality-causing accident in high school, but I don’t remember the left coming out against literacy and libraries because she was for them. Mostly I remember some comments of the sort “how can she be married to him?” which you don’t say about someone you find loathesome.

    Did Ladybird Johnson or Rosalynn Carter get anything like this? Something makes me think a deeper examination of the record would show that Elanor Roosevelt did, but again, her very active policy role would have to be taken into account on that.

  134. 134.

    Chyron HR

    @Trabb’s Boy:

    You immediately send three twits berating him

    Whereas only you and Lovitar have been sent to berate John Cole. Clearly there is a twit gap.

  135. 135.

    The Tragically Flip

    Another data point worth mention is the removal of Pat Buchanan’s permanant cot from the MSNBC green room for his racist book.

    Don’t ask me why his book was the trigger given his odious history of such things, but as someone who had basically given up that he would ever be removed, it was welcome news.

  136. 136.

    Corner Stone

    But I have no respect for people who cut and run or people who throw bombs and then at the slightest returned fire wet themselves and scream “game over.”

    I..I’m..uh..I..
    [faints]

  137. 137.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @The Tragically Flip:

    As for Laura Bush, I do remember some talk of her fatality-causing accident in high school, but I don’t remember the left coming out against literacy and libraries because she was for them. Mostly I remember some comments of the sort “how can she be married to him?” which you don’t say about someone you find loathesome.

    This is a telling point. The things Michelle Obama is advocating are getting attacked simply because Michelle Obama is advocating for them. No one took on Laura Bush for being for literacy, but the right attacks Michelle Obama because she’s in favor of nutrition…or at least couches their attacks that way, because they don’t think they can attack her for what they really want to attack her for…which is the color of her skin.

  138. 138.

    MikeInSewickley

    Again, another thread filled with folks wanting to win old arguments, make pithy comments on the various lack of character of commenters and front-page etiquette.

    If I wanted to see massive amounts of rehearsed speeches lacking any humanity, I’d take a job attending college graduation speeches.

    I am also finding that the bigots and wingnuts are winning on any ethnic/racial argument these days because liberals have become so worn down by the constant barrage of hateful bullshit, we immediately strike out at anyone who disagrees with a bigot call-out.

    This is a long haul and we better realize that we need to allow some discord to keep a “big tent” and leave the purity tests for the GOP.

  139. 139.

    Marc

    @existential fish:

    McCarthy destroyed the lives of many people. The breaking point for him was when he picked on the young staffer (Fred Fischer) of the Army legal counsel, Joe Welsh – casually trying to score points by calling him a red on national TV. This triggered the famous rejoinder (wikipedia has a good summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army-McCarthy_hearings):
    ———————————————
    “Senator, may we not drop this? We know he belonged to the Lawyer’s Guild…Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator; you’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”

    Infuriated by McCarthy’s actions, Welch excluded himself from the remainder of the hearings with a parting shot to McCarthy: “You have seen fit to bring it [the Fisher/NLG affair] out, and if there is a God in heaven, it will do neither you nor your cause any good!” After Welch deferred to Chairman Mundt to call the next witness, the gallery burst into applause.
    ————————

    People at the time could have complained that there were many other nasty things that McCarthy did; many cases that were even worse. But they weren’t idiots, unlike today, so the fact that a bad man finally got what he deserved was sufficient.

  141. 141.

    clayton

    @Keith G:

    That is exactly the concern I had about a certain front pager. Funny that.

    I know who you are referring to, but your attempt to yet again insult her is factually inaccurate.

    I suspect you will never stop insulting her or trying to at every opportunity. Sad little life you’ve got there. Sadder that you waste it in this way. Have you ever tried volunteering or doing something more productive with your free time? Maybe knitting?

  142. 142.

    Kathy in St. Louis

    You know, John, Black Canseco is wrong. About the one white co-ed deal. When this all started with Rush Limbaugh last week, my daughter wrote on my Facebook page to remind me of the time in 1992, when we were at a Mother Daughter luncheon, when she was a senior in high school One of the ladies was speaking about something she heard on Rush Limbaugh and asked if the other women at the table had heard it. I turned to her, and to the total embarrassment of my daughter said, “Never listen to Rush. He is a total pig and I despise him. So, really old white folks haven’t all been listening to Rush lo these many years and just thinking his brand of racism, sexism, and assholism was just great. A lot of us have thought he was a pig since the day he started his national radio career.

  143. 143.

    Corner Stone

    @Kathy in St. Louis:

    So, really old white folks haven’t all been listening to Rush lo these many years and just thinking his brand of racism, sexism, and assholism was just great. A lot of us have thought he was a pig since the day he started his national radio career.

    And as recently as 2003 Rush was forced to resign from ESPN for his incredibly stupid commentary.
    So, I agree that there’s never been any mystery as to who Rush is or who he is performing for.
    IMO, the reason he is receiving focus now is due to the level of viciousness in his attack, and the really creepy demand for video sex tapes.

  144. 144.

    Marc

    @143: Good points. I’d add that it also went on for days, was unrelated to what she actually said, and was not aimed at a public figure.

  145. 145.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Corner Stone:

    The major problem for Rush is his rants have nothing at all to do with the content of Fluke’s testimony. He read things into it that simply were not said or implied. He created his rant out of whole cloth simply because Fluke was female, and dared to oppose the Rethug narrative with, heaven forefend, factual comment.

  148. 148.

    Carnacki

    I don’t know him, but maybe he was having a terrible day. We all have those occasionally where the smallest pebble turns out to be the proverbial last straw after bearing the brunt of a rock slide

  149. 149.

    Lawnguylander

    I can’t believe you left out your most totally sincere and not at all trolly tweet to @BlackCanseco:

    @BlackCanseco Good thing black radicals before you had more balls.

    Why didn’t you include that tweet in this post? I’m amazed he didn’t want to play along. It’s almost like he knows exactly what you were up to and didn’t think he was obligated to discuss racial issues with a white blogger who opened up by insulting him.

  150. 150.

    kindness

    You followed that guy John? Why? It appears he’s somewhat twisted. I mean, if Rush had been calling Michelle Obama a slut, a prostitute and demanding she post adult videos of herself for all to see, well I suspect us wonder bread types would have been out marching on that one too.

    I will admit, it’s getting harder and harder to find conservatives who I want to know not only what they feel but why. Now days the why is usually ‘because there’s a black Kenyan in the White House and he’s making me pee my pants’.

  151. 151.

    The Tragically Flip

    @The Tragically Flip:

    Did Ladybird Johnson or Rosalynn Carter get anything like this? Something makes me think a deeper examination of the record would show that Elanor Roosevelt did,

    Melissa Harris-Perry just answered my question by telling of calls for charging Elanor Roosevelt with treason because she was willing to be photographed looking pleased to meet various black people, and evidently treating them like equal human beings while doing so.

    You can really never go wrong by assuming past conservatives were just as bigoted, crazy and despicable as those today.

  152. 152.

    Rick Taylor

    It still seems to me Twitter is primarily a device for people to make fools of themselves. I’m not convinced we need the help.

  154. 154.

    Onihanzo

    @dirge: Okay… I have to ask. What the fuck is a Godwin Violation? That ANY mention of Hitler or Nazi Germany is somehow an automatic invalidation of the argument?

    Because, and I want to be crystal clear about seeing this mistake given a very bloody and well-publicized death, that’s not what Godwin’s Law is about.

    It states: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”

    One fucking guy on a Usenet forum mentions that the Third Reich has a knack of showing up in arguments and suddenly twenty years later, people are clumsily revising history to remove any and all citations of Nazi Germany as some kind of discourse party foul.

    Enough already.

  155. 155.

    gaz

    140 characters always seemed like just enough text to destroy more relationships than it helps foster.

    I’ll never understand the appeal of twitter.

  156. 156.

    PIGL

    @Martin: i know I’d feel the same if I had a daughter…but lacking a sizeable orchard or corn field, I would have much greater difficuties with disposal. Your female partner (assuming there is one) may feel differently, has been what I’ve noticed.

  158. 158.

    Rafer Janders

    @Trabb’s Boy:

    There’s an argument that you take the role, you’re adding to the problem. I don’t know if I agree with that, but it’s not a ridiculous point.

    No, the argument that if you take the role of Don Draper in Mad Men that you contribute to the problem of racism in America is, indeed, a ridiculous point. It’s so stupid that making it kind of calls everything else you say into question.

  159. 159.

    Rafer Janders

    @Onihanzo:

    One fucking guy on a Usenet forum mentions that the Third Reich has a knack of showing up in arguments and suddenly twenty years later, people are clumsily revising history to remove any and all citations of Nazi Germany as some kind of discourse party foul.

    Especially when the discussion involves politics, aggressive warfare, torture, detention policies, incipient fascism, institutionalized prejudice, etc. You can’t rule the biggest and best examples of these things in the last few hundred years to be out of bounds.

  160. 160.

    Kathy in St. Louis

    @Corner Stone: Gee, do you think that a 61 year old fat white guy asking a college student to make sex tapes for him is offensive? Apparently, some of his defenders on the right as such insensitive clods that they are still defending him. One thing that amazes me about progressives and liberals, of whom I count myself, are always overexamining all this crap…it it all fair, have we been harder on him than the right is on our guys? It’s such a lib reaction. My feeling is that the Golden Rule, when handling such people as Rush, Hannity, O’Reilly,and Beck is not treat others as you would have them treat you, but, rather, treat others as you see them treating others. These guys wouldn’t have a seconds compassion for anyone else who disagrees with them.

  161. 161.

    different-church-lady

    a) More proof that Twitter makes smart people stupid.*

    b) You lose the match when you hit the ball 3 times in a row.

    c) Unprovoked Godwin law? Really?

    d) Yes, he’s right about the white co-ed thing, but it’s also more than that: the first lady is a public figure, Fluke is a private citizen. I think that was the extra factor that finally broke the camel’s back with people: “Holy cow, this ain’t an actor or a football player, or a reality TV star, this is just some woman trying to live her life.” (Sadly, if she had been black it probably would not have had impact to the same level, but I bet it would have still had a lot of impact.)

    e) Yeah, his first tweet was ‘effen idiotic.

    (* I’m talking about you, Cole.)

  162. 162.

    NobodySpecial

    This quote is comedy gold, I’ve gotta save it for the next E.D. Kain post.

    Hell, I’d give him front page status if he could get his shit together. I like a fight. I like an argument. I like different viewpoints.
    …But I have no respect for people who cut and run or people who throw bombs and then at the slightest returned fire wet themselves and scream “game over.”

  164. 164.

    muddy

    @Corner Stone:

    IMO, the reason he is receiving focus now is due to the level of viciousness in his attack, and the really creepy demand for video sex tapes.

    Also social media allows more people to see/hear the poison personally than previous. Then there is the combination of “Rush” and “sex video” that provokes an instant visceral reaction of ICK.

  165. 165.

    different-church-lady

    @The Tragically Flip:

    Accepting this for sake of argument, since when did First Ladies become fair game?

    I’m not sure they’re “fair game”. But we have at least reached a point where we understand that assholes are going to go after them unfairly, and that they’re public figures who know what they’re going to have to deal with.

    The comparisons to McCarthy are more than just a titan of destruction losing his power. He’s losing that power for a similar reason: people have recoiled from his choice to make a vicious attack on a tiny target. He finally moved the line too far, in spite of whether the line was ever in the right place to begin with.

  166. 166.

    Lynn Dee

    A true story: I was at a poetry reading some years back, and it turned out the actor Michael O’Keefe (I think it was him; it’s been a while) was going to be there to read something of his. Well, I got confused and thought it was going to be Michael McKean. Anyway, I was talking to a couple women who were apparently friends of his, and to share their excitement, I said something like: “Didn’t he play that wonderfully smarmy boss on…” That’s about as far as I got. They drew back in horror. One said: “Heavens, no! Michael is a man of great integrity who’s always played profoundly decent characters!” And they huffed off. I turned to my friend and said: “What’d I say?! We’re talking about acting, right?!” She just laughed.

  167. 167.

    The Other Chuck

    Yeah, I’m with BC here. You went pseudo-Godwin on him and prefaced it with “you probably think”, which is also another sure-fire way to shut down civil argument.

    Godwin’s Law states that Usenet conversations had a _finite length_ due to the inevitability of the comparison coming up and thus destroying whatever use the thread had left. And no, it’s not just “any mention of Nazis”, it’s the the cheap tactic of affecting Nazi comparisons as rhetorical hyperbole in the effort to “zing” your opponent.

    I don’t consider this response of mine to be all that thoughtful and considered, but even this wouldn’t fit on Twitter. It’s a medium made up of nothing but brain farts. Screw Twitter.

  168. 168.

    Daaling

    So let me get this straight Not Republican Cole.

    You needed someone on twitter to tell you Limbaugh has been spewing hate for years? It’s all just a complete surprise to you until he said something about Fluke and now someone on twitter has enlightened you??? But that’s the the funny part. Now you two clowns are arguing about a fictional tv show???

    BAHAHahahahaha!

  169. 169.

    Mnemosyne

    @Lynn Dee:

    One said: “Heavens, no! Michael is a man of great integrity who’s always played profoundly decent characters!”

    So does that include his character in Caddyshack? Inquiring minds want to know.

  170. 170.

    Cowbelle

    @Trabb’s Boy:

    You immediately send three twits berating him, calling him an idiot, strawmanning what he said. I’d block you too. You weren’t arguing. You were being a belligerent asshole.

    Agreed.

    Then running back to your blog to complain about your hurt fee fees and/or take a victory lap seems tacky.

  171. 171.

    Brachiator

    @John Cole:

    He’s right. He’s fucking right. Yes, what Limbaugh did to Fluke was horrible and unprecedented, but it is nothing compared to the three year assault Limbaugh and his boys have done on Michelle Obama.

    One thing, though. What Limbaugh and others have said about Michelle Obama is despicable. A lot of people, including myself, have periodically posted about this, and the foul comments from the worst conservatives about Mrs Obama that regularly appear whenever there is a news story about her.

    However, the Obamas, like the Palins, the Bushes, etc are public figures. As nasty as this stuff often is, it is unfortunately part of politics. And going after First Ladies goes back at least as far as the calumny tossed at Andrew Jackson’s wife.

    During the presidential election campaign of 1828, supporters of John Quincy Adams, Jackson’s opponent, accused his wife of being a bigamist, among other things. Despite the accusations, Jackson won by a comparative landslide; he was a popular military hero after his victory in the Battle of New Orleans during the War of 1812.
    __
    Rachel Jackson dropped dead in a street after purchasing her dress for the inauguration. Jackson blamed his opposition for her death, saying that their slander had caused her death. The 1828 election is considered by some historians to be one of the most notorious in terms of campaign insults.

    What made Rush’s attack on Fluke extra heinous was that it was directed in vicious person terms against a woman who was simply trying to exercise her rights as a citizen. Despite attempts to try to present her as “an activist,” and so presumably open to attack, it’s clear that Limbaugh saw her merely as someone he could slut shame, shut down and shut up. And, as someone who did not have her own microphone, she could not fight back. The same is not true of political figures, including Mrs Obama.

  172. 172.

    apocalipstick

    @freelancer:
    Actually, Jesus did not say that. That’s a story from the Old Testament. It’s about Onan, and it gave us the wonderful term onanism.

  173. 173.

    Onihanzo

    @The Other Chuck: Once again, yours is a ridiculous cry of “Godwin!” in an effort to shut down the argument or ignore the context altogether.

    Cole’s mockery of Conseco—and the man’s inability to separate an actor from their role—ISN’T hyperbolic. Had he mentioned an actor that has played Hitler before, would that have been more palatable to your Godwin allergies? Or is it the fact that Cole chose Hitler as an acting role you find so offensive?

    Fucking stupid, this.

    Again, just because Hitler is used in a comparison does not mean the argument is invalid or cheap.

  174. 174.

    Brachiator

    @freelancer:

    You know, Jesus said in the Bible that the only approved place to deposit a man’s seed was in your married wife’s uterus. Not on the ground, not in some harlot, not in a condom, and certainly not in a…

    Somebody’s been messing with your Bible, cutting out the pages and pasting them in a different order.

    Also, the misconceptions about the sin of Onan (Old Testament) was dealt with in a previous and great thread here.

  175. 175.

    Skippy the Wondermule

    I am a normally rational person who has brief fits of childish insanity.

    I think this describes 90% of humanity.

    This guy may be having one of those but when he gets over it, it will be too late.

    And life goes on, such as it is ….

  176. 176.

    El Tiburon

    @Loviatar:

    Here is the post.

    Who Needs Ann Coulter?

    comment 182 is where he first makes the infamous “the Jane Hamsher’s of the left” comment. Read it, its hilarious for his doubling down, everyone calls him on it and he refuses to admit he was wrong.

    Thanks for the link to the ancient post. That was well before my time over here for sure. It is an entertaining and enlightening read. You can still see a lot of the old Republican in Cole (taking up for Bill Bennet? WTF?) I didn’t take the time to follow it too closely, but it did appear that Cole was on the losing end, and true to his (at the time) Republican leanings, his instincts were to flee the scene.

    I can’t wait for the HBO movie. Alec Baldwin will play Cole. Louise Fletcher can play Hamsher I guess.

  177. 177.

    El Tiburon

    @Brachiator:

    The same is not true of political figures, including Mrs Obama.

    I agree with you here. It doesn’t offend me much when adults slag on other adults. I can listen to Howard Stern 24-7.

    But with Rush, the difference is he IS the Republican party. If Howard Stern were somehow anointed the titular head of the Democratic party, then I would most certainly care what he thought and would be so very ashamed of him.

    So, in essence, what is so gratifying about all of this Rush (and Komen, etc. pushback) is the awakening finally of the Public at Large how destructive the Limbaugh/Republican rhetoric is to the nation. By boycotting Rush and the purge at Komen and so on, I think it speaks volumes to the repudiation of that kind of ideology – it has finally been exposed for the hatred that it really is.

  178. 178.

    Brachiator

    @The Tragically Flip:

    Accepting this for sake of argument, since when did First Ladies become fair game?

    For almost as long as there have been first ladies. See my comments earlier about Rachel Jackson, Andrew Jackson’s wife.

    But even, here, many of the attacks on Mrs Obama are extra despicable, and reek of racial anxiety, both among professional pundits as well as the worst of some conservative citizens.

  179. 179.

    MikeJake

    Didn’t we all just slag Michael Kinsley for making essentially the same argument Black Canseco made?

  181. 181.

    The Other Chuck

    @Onihanzo:

    I observed that JC shut down the argument. You go ahead and believe whatever you want. Crank up your internet flame thrower to max on everyone here if it makes you feel all better and righteous inside.

  182. 182.

    scarshapedstar

    I observed that JC shut down the argument. You go ahead and believe whatever you want. Crank up your internet flame thrower to max on everyone here if it makes you feel all better and righteous inside.

    Er… no, there’s no rationalizing the fact that “I’m blocking you!” is simply a bitchy, passive-aggressive move. It’s like sticking your fingers in your ears but with more drama. At least when your girlfriend gives you the silent treatment you feel bad, but publicly announcing it to the internet over a brief political spat with a dude is just silly.

  183. 183.

    Clime Acts

    @The Other Chuck:

    Crank up your internet flame thrower to max on everyone here if it makes you feel all better and righteous inside.

    So, does using YOUR internet flame thrower on Onihanzo make YOU feel all better and righteous inside?

    And Intertrons infinite loop of righteous outrage. It’s all so confusing.

  185. 185.

    scarshapedstar

    Oh, also, I will not read The Other Chuck’s response to my post, if he makes one.

    Okay, I probably will, but I will pretend otherwise. And it’s all his fault. I hope he’s happy about the way he shut down this argument.

  186. 186.

    Brian

    I actually have used John’s screwup (and you shouldn’t try to rewrite history, John: your quip “the Jane Hamshers of the left” was wrong, your attempt to defend it was laughed at, and to the extent that there was a winner, you weren’t it) as a valuable lesson: it’s very easy to see ‘the other side’ as one monolithic block. But when you ascribe particular actions or thoughts, you really should double check the monolith.

  187. 187.

    beergoggles

    @Brachiator: And yet when Rush picked on some gay, brown school kid who got shot and killed by his white bully all we heard was crickets. Spare me the bullshit rationalization…

  188. 188.

    Corner Stone

    @El Tiburon:

    I can’t wait for the HBO movie. Alec Baldwin will play Cole. Louise Fletcher can play Hamsher I guess.

    Baldwin? Are you out of your mind?
    Obviously it will be John Goodman in full-on Walter Sobchak mode.
    And I’m thinking Dame Judi Dench for Hamsher.

  189. 189.

    Corner Stone

    @scarshapedstar:

    Er… no, there’s no rationalizing the fact that “I’m blocking you!” is simply a bitchy, passive-aggressive move. It’s like sticking your fingers in your ears but with more drama.

    Your characterization intrigues me…color me intrigued.

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