They just can’t help themselves:
As baby showers go, the party Mary Russell attended to celebrate her niece’s first child was sweet, with about a dozen women offering congratulations over ice cream and cake.
But somewhere between the baby name game and the gifts, what had been light conversation took a sharp turn toward the personal and political — specifically, the battle over access to birth control and other women’s health issues that have sprung to life on the Republican campaign trail in recent weeks.
“We all agreed that this seemed like a throwback to 40 years ago,” said Ms. Russell, 57, a retired teacher from Iowa City who describes herself as an evangelical Christian and “old school” Republican of the moderate mold.
Until the baby shower, just two weeks ago, she had favored Mitt Romney for president.
Not anymore. She said she might vote for President Obama now. “I didn’t realize I had a strong viewpoint on this until these conversations,” Ms. Russell said. As for the Republican presidential candidates, she added: “If they’re going to decide on women’s reproductive issues, I’m not going to vote for any of them. Women’s reproduction is our own business.”
In Iowa, one of the crucial battlegrounds in the coming presidential election, and in other states, dozens of interviews in recent weeks have found that moderate Republican and independent women — one of the most important electoral swing groups — are disenchanted by the Republican focus on social issues like contraception and abortion in an election that, until recently, had been mostly dominated by the economy.
And in what appears to be an abrupt shift, some Republican-leaning women like Ms. Russell said they might switch sides and vote for Mr. Obama — if they turn out to vote at all.
The sudden return of the “culture wars” over the rights of women and their place in society has resulted, the women said, in a distinct change in mood in the past several weeks. That shift adds yet another element of uncertainty to a race that has been defined by unpredictability, at least for Republicans.
Watching the Republicans commit suicide is amusing.
4tehlulz
Don’t worry; Jeff Foxworthy will help make up the difference.
Corner Stone
Call me a piggie if you like, but I personally don’t see the issue as “women’s rights” but more Equal Rights.
But anything that breaks open the cocoon is welcome, AFAIAC.
Kirk Spencer
@4tehlulz: There’s always a risk for a performer to headline for a politician; that the politician will sink the performer’s reputation.
I think Foxworthy may learn this.
BGinCHI
@4tehlulz: If your new TV is resting on top of your old TV, you may be a low information voter.
PeakVT
they might switch sides and vote for Mr. Obama — if they turn out to vote at all
Somehow this proves that both sides engage in voter suppression.
RedKitten
Yup. According to a 1990 estimate, 80% of women born since 1940 have used the pill at one point or another. So you know, fucking around with access to it, and denigrating women who use it? That’s a REAL winner!
Their next trick? Claiming that only low-class tarts enjoy red wine, chocolate and foot massages, and doing their best to make those things inaccessible.
c u n d gulag
Did they really expect ‘the little ladies’ to take this lying down – and willing to be forcibly raped by the government?
Did they think women wanted Republican men in government to be their authorities on birth control?
What’s “small government” about that?
Look, jackasses – just because you’ve beaten your wives and daughters into submission, using Christ as your cudgel, doesn’t mean that every woman out there is going to defer to your “superiority.”
This is what happens when the knuckle-dragging, cave-dwelling, lizard-brained, Conservative Id feels safe enough to come out and speak it’s “mind.”
Oh, btw – and THANK YOU!
Chuck Butcher
This is March so November is a long ways off in political terms. What voters will be thinking about in October is an open question at this point. It is sure that the economy will suck in October so that isn’t going away. The GOP has given the Democrats some archived ammunition, that’s for sure.
Thymezone
@BGinCHI:
The best thing about these flat screens is that you can put them right on top of the old tv, they’re so light.
Anyway, I’ll thank you to not make fun of my living room furniture.
BGinCHI
@Thymezone: Then shut your curtains.
Loneoak
Says the human without a uterus.
becca
Repealing the 19th amendment should do the trick.
Heads up, Frothy!
Yutsano
@RedKitten:
Better call me a low-class tart then. Because all three of those things are beautiful. Even more so at the same time!
You can have my land, you can have my blood, but you shall NEVER, EVER, TAKE MY CHOCOLATE!!
Plus the Easter Bunny would haz a sad. Explain that to your kids conservatards!
BGinCHI
@Yutsano: Oh, you’re a tart, but classy.
David Koch
What’s hilarious is how the Village media insist this is a winning issue for the wingers (“this will drive up base turnout!). Yeah, it will, but not for who you’re thinking.
AndyG
My mother-in-law – a moderate Catholic Republican from the Philadelphia suburbs – has spent the last week calling her congressman (twice), both Pennsylvania senators, her state senators, her local radio station carrying Limbaugh and Clear Channel. Trust me, you don’t want to be on the phone with her when she’s pissed. And boy, is she pissed.
In what little time she had this week after tearing those folks new a-holes, she found time to call up Georgetown University, thank them for their public statement in support of Sandra Fluke, and requested information on how to donate to them.
If she is representative of moderate Republican or independent women in her age group, then the Republicans are going to be royally fucked in November.
Loneoak
@4tehlulz:
If your wife drives two Cadillacs, you might not want to pretend to be a redneck.
Tommybones
@Loneoak:
Romney will be sure to put both Cadillacs on cement blocks in his front yard before election day, don’t worry.
Thymezone
@BGinCHI:
Curtains? Is that what you call that aluminum foil you have on your windows?
gwangung
It doesn’t even mean that your wives and daughters are submitting. All you’ve done is beaten them.
Hm. Burning Bed might be an appropriate reference here.
Raven
Hey Cole, you doin a March Madness pool?
BGinCHI
@Thymezone: It’s wax paper, actually.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
It is all, or mostly, symptoms of raging Obama Derangement Syndrome, in my view. Only Obama could make these motherfuckers so crazy as to latch onto freekin’ birth control for gawd’s sake, and wave around the Transvag Wand of Freedom for no medical reason. That is beyond bad politics with women’s suffrage granted a century ago. Maybe they will go after that next.
Otherwise, it is insanity ten times what is was under Clinton. Who, I swear, more and more, I think he did a lot of his rascally shit just to keep frothing wingnuts occupied on meaningless trails, to keep them from doing shit like this. Well, no, I don’t actually believe he did it on purpose, but the desired result still resulted.
Obama gives them nothing but a smile and repeated political ass whoopings, and it is making them crazy. I love it, by golly, I do love it so.
But I don’t really think republicans can fully commit political suicide, any more than I think you can kill a zombie with a fork.
BGinCHI
@Tommybones: The cement blocks will be terra cotta tiles, but yes, basically.
robertdsc-PowerBook
At this point, I loathe any and all GOP fucktards with the fire of a thousand suns. Predator drone strikes for everyone in the GOP.
elisabeth
My personal fave is the Geogria legislator who likened women to livestock while voicing his support for a bill to force a woman to carry a dead fetus through the pregnancy. And the bill passed something like 102-65.
RedKitten
@Yutsano:
I would, but you’d probably enjoy that too much.
And yeah, I’ve actually been on one of the larger mommyblogs, chit-chatting with some Republican moms, and as pro-life as most of them are, they’re disgusted at the idea of the forced trans-vag, the attack against the pill, and the recent Arizona law. From my own completely unscientific observations, most of the sane conservative women are just completely disillusioned and disgusted. You’ve still got your rabid hard-core righties, who really DO believe that it’s only round-heeled sluts who have to worry about all of that stuff I listed above. But even a couple of them were taken aback by the Arizona law.
Tommybones
You can kill a zombie with a fork.
BO_Bill
The reason that Axelrod had Stephanopoulos ask that stupid contraception question was that he knew that many female voters would become confused by it. It is hard for me to calculate Axelrod’s anticipated outcome, but my personal judgment is that his stunt will register in around 28% of female voters’ minds.
If I were put in charge of defending the dignity of women as an Obama Czar (I would be good at this job as I do support the dignity of women), I would make it illegal for politicians to lie to them. Females already have enough problems with potential sex-partners doing this. As an example, if Yutsano were to treat me nicely, I might change. And then, since neither of us could afford contraception, we might have a child and name it Tunch.
Michael Bersin
@4tehlulz:
If you plan on visiting your state capitol to get a picture of you standing next to the bust of Rush Limbaugh to use as your social media avatar, you may remain an unmarried male.
Geoduck
@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero):
You jab it in just the right place, you can probably kill a zombie with a fork.
Redshift
@becca: Ann Coulter was talking about that four years ago.
Yutsano
@BGinCHI:
Fixteth even furthereth. It’s only about half of a bet for Willard.
RedKitten
Are you even fucking serious? Do they have ANY idea how incredibly dangerous that can be? Tell you what — why doesn’t he shove a piece of rotting meat up his peehole and keep it there for several months, and see how good it is for HIS health.
cathyx
In regards to Foxworthy, why anyone who relies on good publicity would throw his name toward a negatively viewed candidate is beyond me. I thought his schtick was to think like the average guy.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Corner Stone: What annoys me is these women would have no sense of how gays or minorities feel and there is no way you could even use this example to help them relate. They can see their own struggle, but that’s it.
Soonergrunt
@Tommybones: Yeah, but the effect in front of a $12 million house in La Jolla just isn’t the same.
demimondian
@Yutsano:
I don’t know of any low-class call girls in the Seattle area, so I’m afraid I can’t help you.
ETA: Is tart gender-marked? Can there be a male tart? Either way, I don’t know any low-class prostitutes in the Seattle area, so I still can’t help…
Thymezone
@BGinCHI:
Sorry. I overreached.
Thymezone
@demimondian:
A rare demi sighting! I was just talking about you the other day. Speak of the devil, etc.
Soonergrunt
This just errupted from the fifth sphincter of hell–
CNN reporter Ed Henry’s twitter, a few moments ago:
Kirk Spencer
@RedKitten:
http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2011_12/sum/hb954.htm
I started to block-quote, but unless you see what’s deleted as well as added it becomes hard to get how ugly this bill really is.
Loneoak
@Geoduck:
As likely the only person on this forum whose only acting credit is as a zombie, I will testify that you can in fact use a fork for these purposes.
I was killed by pistol whipping as the heroine vaulted down the porch stairs, btw.
Soonergrunt
@Soonergrunt: And by that, I mean that Ed Henry tweeted about that which erupted from the fifth sphincter of hell, NOT that Ed Henry nor his twitter account is the fifth sphincter of hell.
Carry on.
Gex
“If they’re going to decide on women’s reproductive issues, I’m not going to vote for any of them. Women’s reproduction is our own business.”
Said by some idiot who was happy to keep voting for anti-choice Republicans. The stupid. I wish it only burned. Instead, it makes me weep for humanity.
elisabeth
@Kirk Spencer
Thanks for the link. I’m on my phone and operating links and stuff is painful. :)
Gex
@gwangung: Yeah, if beating is involved, then that suggests the submitting isn’t happening. There’s force, not submission. Jackholes like that can’t tell the difference though.
Gex
I fucking hate these women, by the way. They’re no better than the Reagans and stem cell, Cheneys and SSM, etc.
Their whole shtick is: “Fuck everyone else. Oh wait? They’re coming after me? Somebody help me!”
gwangung
@Gex: Hm. I’ll admit…the same thought occurred to me, too.
asiangrrlMN
@Gex: This.
I’m glad that some Republican women are waking up, and I’ve even written a post about how we have to couch these anti-women bills in language that anti-choice women would embrace (this was right after the Mississippi Personhood bill was defeated), but it’s still galling that THIS is what it took for these Republican women to turn their back on the Republican Party.
And, as Belafon noted upthread, it’s still IGMFY because they only gave a shit when the bills started hurting them personally (anti-abortion laws are, presumably, just fine in and of themselves).
Again, I know an issue has to affect most people personally before they will act on it, so whatever it takes, but it still pisses me off.
ETA: Gex beat me to it again while I was posting my screed. DAMN YOU, GEX!
::shakes fist in a general direction so as to not give away Gex’s bunker location::
BGinCHI
@Soonergrunt: I expect their first move will be to invade Poland in the spring.
Gex
@asiangrrlMN: I see you’ve read the security protocol manual. It will be key when you need to go to an undisclosed location as prez.
demimondian
@Soonergrunt: At first I thought that ticket was absurd, but then I realized that it makes sense. Rick Perry is not afraid of saying he’s not as smart as Newt Gingrich.
asiangrrlMN
@Gex: I’ve been boning up!
My undisclosed location with Alan Rickman as my bodyguard.
Gex
@gwangung: Worse yet, why did these guys even think they had any momentum going into this? These ladies and their willingness to let government decide women’s reproductive health issues.
Percysowner
Honestly, it only sped it up a bit. Abortion was always an entry to make certain that uppity women could be stopped from controlling their own bodies and their own lives. Having an “uppity” black man elected President, just put them into overdive.
Soonergrunt
@BGinCHI: I think they’re going to demand that we bomb the moon prior to settling on it because that will give us $2.50/gallon gas.
@demimondian: If you’re Rick Perry at this point, what do you have to lose?
Ruckus
@cathyx:
I thought his schtick was to think like the average guy.
Maybe he is. How terrifying is that?
bemused
In Game Change, McCain’s team discussed the percentage (I don’t remember what it was) of women’s votes that were critical to attain. It’s fascinating how today the GOP has thrown that out the window like it doesn’t matter anymore. Astonishing.
The Daily Beast has a piece about Premiere Networks memo to the far right wing radio hosts….advertisers don’t want the hate mongering. “Women 24 to 55 are the prize advertising demographic”. The old white farts aren’t going to bring in the money anymore.
Don’t rightwingers get how behind the curve they are?
asiangrrlMN
@Ruckus: My thought, too. The ‘average person’ is pretty damn stupid.
JoyceH
@asiangrrlMN:
SOOOOOOOO jealous…
Anoniminous
@Soonergrunt:
Oh please, please, please, purty-please with sugar and dumplings on top!
Alas, empirical evidence suggests Teh Grand Boo-Bah in charge of the Universe doesn’t like me that much.
demimondian
Although I understand the irritation that the women in the NYT article engender, really, their attitude isn’t all that surprising.
30% of all American women will have terminated a pregnancy by the time they’re 45. (Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html.) That means that 70% of all women in America will *never* have an abortion. More than that, there’s a strong relationship between class and induces abortion: 42% of all women seeking a termination have incomes below 100% of the federal poverty level, and 27% have incomes less than 2 times the FPL. (op cit.) Roughly 20% of all Americans are at 200% of FPL or below, but that figure contains disproportionately many children. As a result, 76% of all abortions are provided to < 20% of all women.
And those women aren't the "moderates" the NYT reporter talked to. Those women are all relatively well-off; not only have they never needed termination services, they probably don't know anyone who would tell them she's terminated a pregnancy,
Ruckus
@asiangrrlMN:
Glad to see you back here even if semi regularly.
WyldPirate
@BGinCHI:
That’s called ingenuity, BGinCHI. When you can’t figure out the PinP function just go with picture-on-picture.
dmsilev
@Soonergrunt: Seriously? That’s fail on so many levels. First off, someone needs to inform Professor Historian Gingrich that it’s traditional to win the nomination before picking a running mate. Secondly, I guess Gingrich wanted to make sure that his ostensible running mate was a dimwitted conservative governor. Because that worked out so beautifully last time round. Thirdly, does this mean that Romney will announce he’s picking Herman Cain, Michelle Bachman, Tim Pawlenty, and Donald Trump as running mates?
Soonergrunt
@dmsilev: Well, I’m guessing that Romney will ask Bachmann, because he always doubles down on whatever the others do, and Bachmann brings the crazy and the stupid, and the hardcore religious right (but I repeat myself) thereby vaulting over Rick Perry.
asiangrrlMN
@JoyceH: Oh, if it were only true. I could die a happy woman. Or not die because ALAN RICKMAN GUARDING MY BODY!
@Ruckus: Ta. Good to be back.
@demimondian: No, their attitudes aren’t surprising, but they are part of the reason we are where we are right now. So, while I am glad they finally saw the light, they get no quarter from me in how fucking long it took them to see it.
demimondian
@Soonergrunt: Romney/Bachmann overturner drive? What sweet Rmoney that would be!
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@Loneoak:
That’s only in the movies, not real life zombies. Duh
demimondian
@asiangrrlMN: Asking someone to have significant empathy for a problem that they legitimately can’t understand ever having is, in my mind, unreasonable. It takes a lot of humility to acknowledge that you just don’t understand something, and that your life experiences can’t extend that far.
That’s why it’s so important for people to come out of the closet, you know — when straights realize that they actually *do* have gay, lesbian, bisexual, or TG friends, or even, God forbid, family, they *do* tend to become more aware of the issues, *even if their attitudes toward Leviticus don’t change*. Same is true of abortion.
Canuckistani Tom
@BGinCHI:
We did when I was a kid. The old ‘entertainment centre’ was the width of the living room, with the radio set on the left, the b&w TV in the middle, and the record player on the right. Before I was born the tv had died, and my parents just put the replacement TV on top. The thing was sturdy enough to take the weight.
muddy
Remember “space tv”? I had a console tv that you could plug into the phone jack and use it as a speaker phone. It was so cutting edge, everyone was amazed.
Your own voice coming out of the tv! omg! This was previous to vcr.
Emma
@asiangrrlMN: Me, I don’t care how we get them on our side; the only important thing is to get them. I’m old enough to know that the whole strange bedfellows thing is the essence of winning politics. If we get them turned now, they will keep a wary eye out for the issues forever more.
danielx
@demimondian:
Actually his fear factor for saying that he’s not as smart as someone else should be just about nonexistent. But I see possibilities for this ticket with auto buffs: the supercharged asshole team.
demimondian
@danielx: Well, to be fair, I don’t think that Romney would have any trouble pretending to believe that Gingrich was smarter than he was, either. The only one who might not be able to manage it would be Sanctorum.
asiangrrlMN
@demimondian: Why? I do it all the time. I am not poor and never have been. I have never had an abortion. If I needed one, I could get it fairly easily. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s not impossible to look outside oneself if one really wants. Again, I am glad they now see that their party doesn’t give a shit about them, but it doesn’t make it any less aggravating.
@Emma: I would agree if I thought it would keep them wary. I don’t think it will. If the party comes to its senses at all (and granted, that’s a big if) and makes any kind of move back towards not batshitcrazy insane, these women will probably be the first to fall happily back in line.
I would just like to reiterate that of course, yes, better they realize it late than never and happy to have them switch votes, but it’s still irritating as fuck that the Republicans had to get this crazy for them to change their minds.
Lee
Hopefully around Oct 25th someone will post a detailed post about the assault on women that is relatively Facebook friendly.
That should remind many of them just in time for voting.
muddy
@asiangrrlMN: I think people can have plenty of empathy if they want to, but some just really don’t want to, or have never been taught to flex those kind of muscles. When my son was little I taught him the way to tell if something was fair, to yourself or to the other person, was to reverse the roles. If that seems okay then it has a good chance of being right.
peggy
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
It doesn’t matter. That’s what’s so wonderful. Being raped, even if you are an upperclass conservative women is still awful and just enough to make one decide not to vote for one’s rapist. No empathy necessary. Pure libertarian selfishness can carry Obama into a landslide.
HyperIon
@demimondian wrote:
Hi demi, long time, no communicate. Could you spell out the math you give here? Assuming your stated numbers are used to get to “As a result…”: 42% + 27% = 67% (where you come up with 76%. Of course that requires translating “27% have incomes less than 2 times the FPL” as “27% have incomes less than 2FPL but greater than 1FPL”. A reasonable translation IMO.
But how to get to less than 20% of all women after giving an all Americans stat? Please show work. ;=)
Notice how I avoided the deadly (to me) less than sign. I’m so proud. But you are a master of escape (sequences).
HyperIon
@dmsilev:
That was my first thought.
Thanks for reinforcing my world view.
peggy
@demimondian:
And I thought all that racist garbage was just propaganda. Upon thought, middle class women can manage to squeeze out the support needed for the little accident better than the poor. Also the prescription costs of birth control pills cannot always be handled in a regular fashion by the hard pressed, leading to gaps.
Lizzy L
I’ve been voting D for decades, and I’m totally fine with all those rich R women, and their daughters, voting for Obama. Come on down, sisters. Happy to have you. Here, have a Thin Mint.
demimondian
@HyperIon: I made a mistke. Either way, I was wrong — either I mistyped 42% when I mena 49%, or i miscomputed 76% when I should have computed 69%. Either way, I’ll simply shrug and say “close enough; it doesn’t affect my point.”
As to the &rangle 20%, though, that’s easy: I point out that adult women are underrepresented among Americans below 200% of the FPL (due to children in poverty). As a result, a larger proportion of adult women are above 200% of FPL than Americans are, ergo, fewer than 20% of all adult women are below 200% FPL
[email protected]peggy: Well, yes and no. The racist crap about promiscuous Ni*bangs* and Sp*thuds* needing more abortions– yes, that is racist crap. The tie in between class and termination, though, is real.
demimondian
@asiangrrlMN: Hmm. I would suggest that what you’re saying is, in fact, that you’re having trouble empathizing with the “moderate women”, isn’t it? You can understand *intellectually* where they’re coming from, but you’re having trouble really getting inside their skins and understanding emotionally why they were so out of touch with reality.
Gex
@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero): My weapon of choice for zombies is a flame thrower. That works, right?
Gex
@asiangrrlMN: I know that in my case, I think it is just easier because I’m familiar with being the one people should have more empathy for. I know I’ve said it on BJ a million times, but brown, female, gay, atheist means on any given topic, the GOP and their people are hating on me. Thus, much easier to empathetic because I don’t need to great of an imagination to empathize.
Your average SWC having never seen discrimination have no idea what it’s like.
Edited to cut.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@Gex:
Yup, that’ll gitter done.
Elias
@demimondian:
Consider the age range at which people are most likely to get abortions. Young, unmarried, etc… That demographic tends to be poor. A young unmarried college student at a prestigious university might be living right around poverty level while attending school, despite the fact that her income will be pretty respectable once she’s done and finds a job better than waiting tables.
I think your data might reflect that when you’re talking about how most people who get abortions are right around FPL. And that’s quite a bit different than saying it’s a class-thing.
4jkb4ia
@RedKitten:
But Israel needs every export to the US it can get. This is where red wine comes from, right?
4jkb4ia
OK, Baron Herzog is from California. That is what I thought.
Arclite
I think THIS is it, regardless of religious affiliation or lack thereof. Women want to make their own decisions and are sick of men telling them WTF to do with their own bodies.
harlana
i know it’s a great news for Obama, but how do all these women get to be so fucking dumb as to not give a shit until now? i’m a woman. i don’t understand. AT ALL.
xian
@AndyG: look for other Republican subgroups to find ways to abandon the sinking ship before November
Betsy
@BO_Bill: “Females” ?