Here’s the new Obama campaign film. It’s clearly aimed at the base–there’s plenty of Bill Clinton, a smattering of Elizabeth Warren and even a bit of Rahm. It also has a completely opposite feel compared to the media coming out of the Republican challengers. While Republicans strive to outdo themselves in portraying the current and future apocalypse, this piece projects a calm, quiet assurance that things are getting better. It was almost a relief to watch after all the amped-up noise we’ve been seeing in the Republican primary. If the theme of the current election is sanity versus insanity, the Obama campaign is clearly staking its claim as the defenders of reason. I don’t know how an establishment Republican can look at this preview of coming attractions and be anything but worried.
Reader Interactions
492Comments
Comments are closed.
4tehlulz
RAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHetc.
Schlemizel
Simple there is no space left over in what we shall call their ‘brain’ for lack of a more accurate description for reality. They are going to wake up on the first Wednesday of this November to the realization that they have another 4 years of trying to out think that damn Muslim kid; a task well beyond their limits. Oh and a hunt for the fraudsters and thieves who wrongfully reelected him.
ant
im voting republican, cause obama didn’t get the public option
Hill Dweller
Axelrod did an online Q&A after the video, and it was heartening to see the campaign openly calling the republicans’ voter ID laws voter suppression.
samara morgan
/yawn
this video only matters to liberals like you mixie.
like Nate Silver says, demographics is destiny.
if Romney can get 65% of the WHITE vote, he wins,.
Otherwise O wins.
bi lal kayfah (it is understood)
Linda Featheringill
Encouraging.
I didn’t catch up with last night’s threads until this morning and so I read Levenson’s piece at about 6:30. I’m still depressed about that. I thought we killed this shit at some time in the past. Damn.
So it’s good to be reassured that we do have choices and just might end up with some sanity.
wvng
The thing that drives me nuts is that, despite the glossy film making, this is entirely true – and yet a recent poll shows that most Americans have no idea how successful this good man has been as President (“few accomplishments”), and almost no memory of the deep hole he started from. I can’t imagine anyone else in that office.
samara morgan
heres what establishment republicans aka “conservatives” think of Cameron’s toast to Obama.
down down down-down
Soonergrunt
Because they are insane. SATSQ.
c u n d gulag
Damn that Obama!
Here he is, being all calm and rational.
It’s taking away from the Conservatives launch of their new Women’s Platform – KKK: Kinder. Kuche. Kirche.
wilfred
Not a word about Afghanistan. The country involved in a war and not a word.
What base?
Hill Dweller
I see the wingers have discovered more proof of Obama’s radicalism. This time it is a 1990 newspaper interview, where Obama said, “Hopefully, more and more people will begin to feel their story is somehow part of this larger story of how we’re going to reshape America in a way that is less mean-spirited and more generous.”
Obama’s disdain for white people really shines through.
Raven
@samara morgan: You sound like Oh-fucking-mar Sharif.
danimal
Uh oh, another scathing Drum screed against the President…
To the ramparts, mrmx, dougj and zandar!
redshirt
@wvng: It helps that the Republicans have waged a concentrated PR campaign to dismiss, mock, belittle, and in all ways scorn everything Obama is or does, with our good friends in the media playing along.
They create controversies out of nothing, and real accomplishments get little to no mention.
Without major changes in the media, despite whatever demographic trends are evident, the Repukes will always have a big head start in “setting the agenda”.
Vincent
Another Obama term would be an utter catastrophe for progressive politics. I’d rather see 4 years of Republican extremism followed by a genuine left-wing president than see the electoral legitimization of Obama’s mainstreaming of hard-right policies under the guise of liberalism. Only Tony Blair has done as much damage to mainstream left-wing ideology in living memory.
redshirt
@wilfred: And magic ponies. I head nary a reference to the pony I’m owed.
wilfred
@ redshirt:
A shooting war in Afghanistan is a magic pony? Whatever.
TFinSF
LOL @Vincent:
I am amused by the frequently binary nature of simple minds. What makes you think that if we “see 4 years of Republican extremism” that it will be followed by a “genuine left-wing president” (whatever form that takes in your head)?
Chyron HR
@Vincent:
Let me guess, the reason why that didn’t happen in 2009 was that it followed EIGHT years of Republican extremism, not the magic four years?
shortstop
These threads are useful for identifying the people who couldn’t politick their way out of a paper bag. But they have rich, not to say medication-indicating, fantasy lives while they’re in there.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@Chyron HR:
I think Vincent is a spoof
Culture of Truth
Hmmmm…. I guess I like sanity, but he’s such an angry crazy black liberation race theorist radical….
shortstop
@TFinSF: If you want something badly enough, it will happen. Everything will fall into place. Now pass the Cheetos.
wilfred
“I am amused by the frequently binary nature of simple minds.”
Been away for a while, no? Get ready to bust a gut.
Suffern ACE
@Vincent- yeah. I’m sure that percentage of people who see themselves as liberal will grow from 20% to 20.5% in four years. The country will be so ready for your programs then!
PTirebiter
@ant: Yea, remember Snowe and
Liebrman pushing the the reasonable compromise- zip- with a
strongly worded letter to insurance companiesautomatic TRIGGER?Schlemizel
@Vincent:
really, it is way too early in the morning for such poor sarcasm.
redshirt
@wilfred: You would be dissatisfied with whatever he said unless he hit every bullet point in your head and then thanks you personally for the opportunity.
We’re facing the most crazed opposition party in American history and folks like you continually play the “what have you done for me lately” card. Predictably. It’s tiring.
Do you not believe he’ll end the conflict in Afghanistan like he said he would? Like he has in Iraq? Yes or no?
cmorenc
One of the key factors going into the 2012 election season is that while the media has hardly reformed itself from its propensity toward a shallow “horse race” framing and toward indulging false equivalences to attempt to appear “balanced”, nonetheless the GOP finally seems to have lost its heretofore frustratingly effective grip on steering media framing of issues. Each of the three remaining contenders for the GOP nomination have laid steaming turds in the political bed too many times to be able to whitewash them out, and it’s clear that outside of FoxWorld and the wingnutosphere, most of the rest of the media has adopted a viscerally negative disposition toward the character of Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich that has been earned by what they each have said, done, and pandered to so far. By contrast, at worst the attitude toward Obama is one of professional dispassionate skepticism toward a man all but the most partisan-leaning media figures nevertheless fondly like on a personal level.
The most telling indicator of change in media disposition is the utter failure of the GOP effort to frame the contraception issue as one of “religious liberty” rather than a woman’s reproductive health issue, a failure given a powerful oblivious assist by Rush Limbaugh’s offensive trashing of Sandra Fluke and Issa’s stunningly stupid decision to hold a hearing allowing only a panel of older men to testify and disallowing testimony by Fluke (because it didn’t fit their desired framing)…when had they simply allowed her to speak, she would be a forgotten footnote by now.
Only six months ago, it appeared that Obama was the one swimming against a powerful negative economic tide going into election season, but how dramatically the tide has reversed; now the GOP is swimming against multiple superimposed powerful currents: improving economy, disastrous stances against the Auto bailout in Ohio in Michigan, seeming gross insensitivity to women on the contraception issue, and some scary displays from the most base elements of their electorate in primary debates. Each of their remaining Presidential candidates have made verbal blunders and hard-right tacks in the primary season of the sort that will be very difficult to reverse back toward the middle come general election season.
It’s still not going to be a cakewalk for team Obama come general election season, but at the moment, they look very sure-footed coming out of the gate. The future in November is hardly assured, but things look much more reassuring now than they did six months ago.
Satanicpanic
This thread is off to a great start
Elizabelle
Caught a few minutes of Morning Joe today. Joe wasn’t there, so it was possible.
Chuck Todd thinks voting turnout will be depressed this year on both sides. That this isn’t a “change” election.
How could that be? Does Todd oversample Republicans?
Roger Moore
@samara morgan:
That’s going to be tough. The Republicans seem to be doing their level best to drive away women, which makes getting a really large fraction of any ethnic group hard. If only 50% of white women vote Republican, they’d need 80% of white men to get 65% of whites as a group. I think there are likely to be enough gays, union members, left over hippies, etc. to make that unlikely nationwide.
4tehlulz
@Vincent: Kill yourself.
Raven
@Vincent: You’re a fucking idiot.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@danimal:
Drum is okay by me, most of the time, as upper tier pundits go. He sometimes throws out some dubious “progressive” red meat to the nutroots to keep them clicking. They all do that to one degree or another. Just bidness to keep the lights turned on, and the family fed.
As far as Afghanistan is concerned, Obama has dug his heels in on the withdrawal timetable, and that is as good as it will get. I would prefer it be done faster, but Obama has shown he sticks to the plan, like in Iraq.
If the Afghan people, or at least the 2/3 that aren’t Taliban wanted us out, we would be fighting the entire country. Invaders not welcome by the majority there, don’t get treated well. Ask the Soviets.
PTirebiter
@TFinSF: And no doubt Vince would totally take his turn at the front after we invade Iran- just as soon as he shakes that damn cold. If only he had a public option.
wilfred
@Redshirt:
We’re in a shooting war. 16 men died today. Yes, they weren’t Americans, or whatever sub-category of American it’s necessary to cater to in order to WIN.
We’re in a fucking war. Tomorrow, or the next day, or the one after that, an American kid will die.
“Do you not believe he’ll end the conflict in Afghanistan like he said he would?”
Strangely, no. The Arab press is filled today with Panetta’s comments that we may stay after 2014. Obama was very clear that the death of 16 Afghan civilians will not affect the PLAN.
But there is not mention of Afghanistan in the campaign video. Asking why is a simple goddamned question for a reasonable person. No?
4tehlulz
@PTirebiter: Don’t be silly; he’ll be fighting on the most-important front, the Internet.
Culture of Truth
It’s not going to be a cakewalk. It will be, as usual, a battle for a few key states. Nevertheless, one thing is clear. Few people are voting for the GOP nominee, rather they have no choice but to vote against a slew of weak to impossible alternatives, Herman Cain, Rick Perry, Ron Paul, and finally Newt Gingrich, professional jerk and amateur racist, and Rick Santorum, the non-entity from Pennsylvania who has proven to amazing adept at being inept.
Then there’s Romney, who, given his opposition, would have wrapped this up long ago if he had given any indication had something called “principles,” or could address a crowd without mentioning his rich friends, tree-height or the words to ‘Davy Crockett’.
It’s a been a rough slog, and Romney’s people think that means they have been tested. They have not, and the fight has only just begun.
Vincent
I’d like to apologise to all of my fans – I meant that as a hypothetical not as an inevitability. Carry on kacking off.
Old Dan and Little Ann
That was a nice video. Sadly, too many folks I know would not be able to sit through 2 minutes of it without going into a full on rage. I wish someone would make a similar video that portrayed 3 years into their choice of a McCain/Palin presidency. Although 15 minutes of staring at a pile of rubble would go over their heads.
Vincent`
@Vincent: Doh. Jacking off. Two punches in the groin for that type-o.
Lee
@Roger Moore:
I’m the ‘etc’ :)
I’ve got two daughters and I cannot imagine someone with a daughter voting for a Republican this election. But then again, I see them as people, not chattel.
kindness
Wow, it’s raining trolls today.
Scott P.
Ah, yes. It’s all about demographics. That’s what matters.
Or maybe it’s all about turnout. Who knows?
samara morgan
@Raven: nah.
i sound like this guy.
fucking reality–how does it work?
we LOST the War on Islam, Raven.
Islam just planted a big fucking boot in Americas ass in Iraq, and the same thing is gunna happen in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
shortstop
@Vincent: We shall, old fellow. Enjoy your evening.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
Sheesh, is FDL down or something? How else can we explain this infection of Calamity Jane’s Hamsher’s of the Apocalypse this morning?
samara morgan
@Scott P.: it is about turnout.
so GOTV assclown.
coming soon to a voting booth near you…
Occupy the Electorate!
Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity
@redshirt: You’re talking to wilfred, who has shown repeatedly over the last few years that unless Obama personally drives the vehicle delivering his pony, it’s just not good enough.
And that pony better have A RED SPARKLY RIBBON ON IT, motherfucker, or it’s just another Muslim-slaughtering sellout.
redshirt
@wilfred: I trust Obama will do what he says he’ll do. You do not. Therein lies a major difference.
It just boggles my mind folks like yourself will spend all their energies critiquing Obama when quite literally, he’s the only thing standing between us and outright Theocratic Fascism.
It’s the curse of the left, I suppose.
Satanicpanic
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage: It’s not even an obvious troll bait post about Greenwald. Maybe they’re still nursing a grudge from the spanking they got yesterday.
TTT
@Vincent: if you’re for real, fuck you. It only took one term of a GOP extremist president to fall asleep at the wheel and fail to stop 9/11, then invade the wrong country while redistributing wealth to the rich, pretty much destroying our economy and moral standing forever – not to mention all those who died. It is the responsibility of all people of conscience to keep Republicans out of power at all levels for as long as they live. That is the world we live in.
wilfred
That’s right. The country is in a shooting war where, when it’s not blowing brown-skinned muslims to the sweet bye and bye, is ignoring the ongoing policies that physically and mentally cripple Americans kids. When they’re not killing them outright, oi.
But bring it up in a circle jerk about a campaign video and you are, what?
The war pigs reign supreme. Here, there and everywhere.
Obama is the President. It was him left Afghanistan out. Not me, motherfucker.
aimai
OT but not OT. I was having a discussion with a disaffected working class democrat with three daughters. He expressed his dislike for ‘the left’ because they are always ramming this sex stuff (ie gay men) down his throat. “I don’t want to see two bald gay men kissing” he said, angrily.
“Being gay is not a requirement of the Democratic Party” I said, “And in any event, how did you know they were Dems? Two fat old bald gay guys kissing? I’d have thought they were Republicans who left the closet door open by accident.” Well, that loosened up the dialogue quite a bit and by the time I got through explaining that the “low tax” “small government” Republican party was planning to ram dildos up his precious daughters’ vajayjays he admitted, gloomily, that he pretty much was never going to vote Republican again, even in his imagination.
We must fight them on the beaches, we must fight them at the bikini line, we must fight them at the closet door. The fog of “both sides do it” “its all the same” “no policy differences” “low taxes/small government” simply has to be fought at every stage. We can win this election by forcing the mushy middle to realize that the GOP is bat shit crazy. But we can’t do it by letting the wilfrids etc… keep blurring the lines.
aimai
redshirt
@wilfred: Nader/Kucinich 2012! Magic Sparkle Ponies for all!
PTirebiter
@wilfred: Sure and Apple is still running ads without ever mentioning price. You either believe him when he says he’s painfully aware of the costs, or you don’t. At this point, No one is going to be persuaded one way or another about the war.
So what would be the point? Do you think you need a comparison point between the two sides?
Maude
@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero):
It’s the anniversary of My Lai today.
Hearthurt all around.
I wonder if NATO will just start getting out without fanfare.
samara morgan
@wilfred: would you prefer WWIII?
get your ass out on the street and re-elect Obama.
put some skin in the game.
see what happens then.
shortstop
@aimai:
Outstanding.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@aimai:
Here here. THIS.
wilfred
The country is in a shooting war. Between now and whatever time you choose a lot of people will die or be crippled or maimed or otherwise ruined.
Yet it is not necessary to say that this is not happening? Again, why?
samara morgan
@aimai: well……you were all for Kain blurring the lines……..whats changed?
Bruce S
#14 – “Drum screed against Obama”
I’m not surprised, since Zandar helpfully informed us that Kevin Drum thinks Obama’s “worse than Bush” (and no one else here seemed to think that was the least bit hysterical.)
The problem with Drum is that he’s congenitally tepid (on everything – except, of course, Katz), which means he might, just might, be one of THEM who doesn’t always agree with US!
geg6
“…until they were all accounted for, even the dog.”
I love that line.
I’ll just keep on keeping on with my mantra for 2012:
GM is alive. Bin Laden is dead. Obama/Biden 2012.
Oh, and fuck that troll wilfred. He’s the very definition of emo-prog, an insufferable and miserable specimen of humanity along the lines of Tea Baggers and right-wing Christianists. Opposite poles of the same mentality.
redshirt
@wilfred: You state the obvious. Obama said he’s pulling the troops out by end of next year. What else do you want? Moreso, what’s your point?
Emma
@Vincent: Jesus. You are an ahistorical moron. Point to one, ONE, time in which that has ever happened in the United States. For crying out loud, you live in Alternative Earth.
wilfred
@ Samara:
Wallahi, I did that 4 years ago. Read the threads. All I’m asking for is an explanation of why an American war is not mentioned in a campaign video.
I mean, is that really too much to ask for or to expect?
shortstop
We talk a lot here about how there’s a certain subset of people who are literally addicted to anger, who can’t get through a day without a large fix of rage and loathing. We almost always discuss them within the context of the far right and the media that’s set up exclusively to feed their fury. But they exist on the left, too, though in far smaller numbers.
There isn’t any way to satisfy someone who values the feeling of dissatisfaction more than he values any principle or policy…including the ones he says he’s fighting for. Best to write this small group off and direct our energies toward the rational.
St. Trinian's grad
@Vincent: What makes you think it would necessarily turn out that way?
Trinity
Fired Up! Ready to Go!
F the dumbshit. Republicans hate my color, our union, and my lady bits. I’ll be damned if I get bogged down in any bullshit besides that.
Period.
Chyron HR
@Bruce S:
Ha ha, you got it. Why must these “Obotomized Obots who mindlessly worship dear leader” be so hostile towards people with opposing political views?
PNW Warrior Woman
Loved it. Obama will win.
Culture of Truth
Too much cinnamon.
jibeaux
@aimai: I kind of love you a little bit. Not to ram any gay down your throat or anything, it’s not like that.
And I for one will fight them at the bikini line! From time to time the tree of oppression must be pruned with the hot wax of voting the fuckers out. It doesn’t even hurt, but they do grow back.
eemom
@samara morgan:
You, yesterday: “I don’t bring up Kain unless someone else does”…..whats changed?
Trurl
I don’t have time to watch the whole thing. But I’m guessing it doesn’t contain any footage of the aftermath of his cluster-bomb attack in Yemen that killed 21 children?
Cat Lady
@aimai:
I went to the barricades on FB yesterday, and got to back two teatards up against the wall with facts about the war on women. I’m going to take every opportunity to make it a point to talk about that with anyone I can.
jibeaux
Yep, something’s happened to the FDL site.
Maude
AP Headline: Skydiver to jump from 23 miles, aims to go supersonic.
Gotta be a Republican.
Chyron HR
@Trurl:
I don’t have time to go check the responses on FDL. Is it still 100% kosher there to denounce the President as a, quote, “ni**er”, unquote?
PTirebiter
@Culture of Truth: very funny. thanks for the a.m. yuck.
beltane
Hey everyone, it’s the Friday Midday Troll Roundup! Can’t wait for the RW trolls to show up and double the fun.
samara morgan
@wilfred:
because Our Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Israel is gunna launch on Qom and kick off WWIII on the slightest excuse.
you’re welcome.
ya da yadda hey, ya da yadda ho.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@redshirt:
People gloss over, what at the time, was a very risky political move, especially by a democrat involving the country we were attacked from on 9-11. And that was announcing a date certain, or timetable to quit Afghanistan. That was against about every kind of military taboo for active wars, especially one involving 9-11.
I can’t think of another dem in that office who would have risked going against the active duty generals, and teevee generals like Bloody Bill Kristol.
But I have just sent a Candygram to the WH, requesting Obama mention wilfred’s concern about teh Video, and to address those as soon as possible, so we on BJ, can get some peace of our own.
samara morgan
@eemom: oh, she brought up “blurring the lines”. that is EDK country.
fair touch.
;)
Trurl
We certainly can’t afford a warmonger in the Oval Office who will launch a war of regime change against an oil-exporting Muslim country.
shortstop
@Chyron HR: Do they really? Yikes.
Davis X. Machina
I didn’t see Van Jones once. And did you count the references to a public option?
I’m staying home in November.
samara morgan
@wilfred:
because A-stan is toxic right now.
like the Sauds.
are you are a retard or something? switch sides.
danimal
@Maude: Dear Republicans, liberals are pleading for you.
Please.Do.Not.Jump.Out.Of.Airplanes!
Liberals really want you to stay away from airplanes. Repeat: Liberals Do NOT want Republicans to jump out of airplanes.
Liberals get pissed when Republicans jump out of airplanes, especially without parachutes.
gocart mozart
@Vincent:
Shorter Vincent: I will be complicit in the destruction of America unless I get my magic pony.
Maude
@danimal:
Heh.
Davis X. Machina
@gocart mozart: Without the magic pony, it really isn’t America, is it?
PTirebiter
@Trurl:
Still filing for your grant to explore the uncanny similarities to be found in the sufferings of Jesus, early martyrs and the world citizen known as Trurl?
samara morgan
@Schlemizel: want to understand republicans? first understand evolution.
Schlemizel
I could kiss you for than line alone!
wilfred
@ General Stuck:
Yeah. Well, you see, I really can’t see anything in that video that has not been said about 10 million times before. Maybe you can point something new out to me, but I can’t see it. It’s just the same old red meat for the mob.
What I don’t see is a mention of the only real shooting war that the United States of America is involved in, the one that is killing American kids and wogs – you know, non-voters – by the fucking bucket load.
Simple explanation will do. Imagine, for a moment, that I was a stupid, lemming-minded motherfucker like your own self.
Try that.
shortstop
@Schlemizel: Shoot, I was so busy complimenting her for the bikini line that I missed the closet door. Even better!
samara morgan
@Schlemizel: yet……aimai was a total EDK fangrrl?
what changed?
4tehlulz
THE ONLY WAY TO PROVE YOU ARE A FREE THINKER IS TO AGREE WITH ME
Trurl
Correction: the only war in which American ground troops are being shot at. Wars where US weapons are being fired at Muslims number about half a dozen.
Which reminds me of the joke. You know how you can tell Obama isn’t a Muslim? Because he kills so many of them.
samara morgan
@wilfred: again.
A-stan is toxic. Our Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Israel’s effect on gas prices is toxic.
What else do you want O to talk about so he can lose relection?
samara morgan
@shortstop: ditto you.
what has changed in aimai’s world view from kumbayah EDK?
Schlemizel
@eemom:
why respond? Its all samara wants. When I ask (damn, is smamra a she? On the internet it is hard to tell) why & what the expected result would be I got back (and this is a direct quote) “Here is something that will piss you off” and then a dig at my kids service time in this endless war.
burnspbesq
@wilfred:
This may come as a shock to you, but Afghanistan is not the only issue that matters.
Yutsano
@Schlemizel:
Self-identified as such, so I take her at her word.
For me personally, it’s fun when she gets facts wrong, which is often. Otherwise I just gloss over most of it.
samara morgan
@Schlemizel: tch tch. I SAID “here is something that pisses you off.”
And i said your son’s NOBLE SERVICE. he got screwed. we all did.
take a fucking number.
shortstop
@Yutsano: I enjoy making fun of jerks, for sure, but usually not the patently mentally disturbed. She is so badly broken that there’s no humor in it for me.
chopper
@wilfred:
not a word about the war on drugs. if he’s trying to impress me, he’s failed.
burnspbesq
@Vincent:
“I’d rather see 4 years of Republican extremism followed by a genuine left-wing president”
So the idea of four years of unprecedented suffering for millions of your fellow Americans appeals to you.
Good to know who our enemies are.
Trurl
After all, what cause is more important than re-electing Obama? Executing American citizens without trial?
If that arch-fiend Romney gained power, he’d probably establish a personal health care mandate that forced us to pay money to the for-profit, anti-trust exempt health insurance companies.
Is that the kind of country you want to live in?
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@wilfred:
And here I was trying to be nice to the self appointed voice of the muslim world. Mr. Wilfred. You don’t speak for the Afghan people, sparky. You don’t speak for anyone but your emo preening self. This lemming minded person, at least, has enough sense to know that president Romney, or Santorum, won’t be pulling out of Afghanistan, but more likely sending the B 1’s and 52’s to carpet bomb that country into submission, because they can. Try that, moron.
Brachiator
@Vincent:
Haahaahhahahahhahahahha! Thanks very much for the giggles.
Another progressive moran who foolishly believes that Republican extremism will magically usher in the Progressive Rapture.
@wilfred:
So let me get this straight. You want Obama to find some white skinned Muslims to blow up, and then you will be happy.
Very odd.
gaz
@Vincent: Wow. A functional moron.
What do you do for a living?
(it’s a twisted curiosity that causes me to ask)
wilfred
@ burnspbesq:
I’m not saying it is. I’m only saying that it is the only shooting war that my country is involved in that a sitting US President thought fit not to mention in a campaign video.
I’m reasonable. I pointed out an anomaly – and am more than willing to accept a reasonable explanation.
samara morgan
@Yutsano:
link or gtfo.
did you mean when Aisiangirlman was going to go bunk with the LoOgies? i can link that for you.
;)
mistermix
@wilfred:
All your base
gaz
@wilfred: Because campaign videos aren’t exactly the most opportunistic place to talk about a war nobody likes.
I hear newt needs a new campaign manager. maybe you should go apply, instead of wasting your life drooling all over this blog.
Yutsano
@shortstop: This is a fair point. I really should be a better human about this. But I’m also a Scorpio. Stinging is in my nature. I hope you’re not a frog. :)
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@wilfred:
Nothing like a blog that peaks the bullshit meter first thing.
wilfred
“All you base”, eh”
You forgot your period.
Back in the day, when the pseudo left was wanking after Edwards and Hilary, the Left base backed Obama because of his apparent anti-war stance.
What happened? If the man’s staff can’t even mention a shooting war against brown-skinned Muslims, something’s changed.
Take a shot.
gaz
@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero): heh
4tehlulz
@wilfred: Of course; calling someone a “lemming-minded motherfucker” is the best way to show openness to a reasonable explanation.
shortstop
@Yutsano: No, man, and most of my interaction-focused new year’s resolutions have already gone by the wayside, so there’s that.
jibeaux
So promising, with the bikini line & closet door thing….so quickly out of control. Nuevo thread, por favor!
Satanicpanic
@wilfred:
Because it’s a campaign video you idiot. Expecting someone to point out their own lack of success in a promotional video is not reasonable and you’re clearly not asking in good faith. This is not a State of the Nation address for crying out loud.
samara morgan
@Schlemizel:
bzzzt wrong.
i SAID “here is something that pisses you off.”
here is something that pisses Chris off
here is something that pisses yutsano off
all facts.
Schlemizel
@Yutsano:
I keep hoping she gets back on the vitamin H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloperidol) but until then I have no intent of feeding the delusions, it is not healthy for her.
Linnaeus
There’s no question for me. I voted for this president before and I’m certainly going to vote for him again, not only because I favor some of the things he’s done but also because the alternative is a party with a significant element that would like to institute a mix of fascism and neofeudalism.
I understand that the president, as a candidate, needs to be optimistic and project that image. It’s part of the game. I’ll admit that I’m much less so these days. I think American society is corroding. Afghanistan is looking to be a massive failure for both the prior Bush Administration as well as the Obama Administration (though Obama was handed this situation by his predecessor, with all the constraints that carried). Things seem to be changing in such a manner that Americans are unable or unwilling to cope. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but it feels that way to me.
Which is not to say that there’s no way to change things. It’s going to take massive effort and years, even decades, of work.
Frankensteinbeck
@Roger Moore:
You’re implying that there are other factors in the world besides race, and that people are individuals not defined by religion or the color of their skin. That’s not gonna fly with MC.
Davis X. Machina
@burnspbesq: Nach Romney, wir!
shortstop
@Satanicpanic: Well, okay, I guess that makes sense. Obama better volunteer all his own deficiencies when debating with Romney, though, and I’m going to be really mad if his ads don’t say, “I’m Barack Obama and I took time out from beating myself with a whip about Afghanistan to approve this message.” You can’t say fairer than that.
Trurl
Which only underscores what a commitment to principles Obama showed by tripling US ground forces and saturating the sky with drone bombers.
He was willing to do the unpopular thing and take the political hit! So that we could accomplish the noble goal of… uh…
Sorry, I forgot. What exactly are we accomplishing in the Af-Pak war?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Since apparently we are holding qualifying trials for the US Olympic Team’s Willful Obtuseness squad on this thread, could the bloghosts please issue scoring cards? The action is going by so fast that I’m having trouble keeping track of who is currently in the lead.
eemom
Thread needz moar Greenwald.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@eemom:
LOL
VincentN
@Vincent
You are a disgrace to all people named Vincent if you’re serious. But I imagine that you must be a spoof.
Martin
How did I miss this one here:
Who could have anticipated that the rash of voter ID laws, including MS’s own Initiative 27 would keep the racist embers burning…
wilfred
Hm. Campaign video.
So not mention of Afghanistan is meant to attract whom, or repel whom.
The Republicans would be more than happy to incinerate any wog to the skin tinted left of a fucking Norwegian. So lack of mention is for whom?
It’s a simple goddamned question.
@ General Stuck #122:
Spoken like a mentally challenged lemming.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@Martin:
I covered it yesterday, and am glad to see USM deal with it in a honorable fashion by apologizing promptly. Good for them.
Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Wilfred: 5/10
Trutl: 2/10
Vincent: 1/10
Thread: 0/10
I will pay good money to Blackface Jane to get her wheezing servers, no doubt caked with spittle and bile, back up so that all the usual idiots can go back over there and call the president a ni**er to their hearts content.
Trurl
You got it.
[[ Shaye’s real crime is that he reported facts that the U.S. government and its Yemeni client regime wanted suppressed. But while the imprisonment of this journalist was ignored in the U.S, it became a significant controversy in Yemen. Numerous Yemeni tribal leaders, sheiks and activist groups agitated for his release, and in response, President Saleh, as the Yemeni press reported, had a pardon drawn up for him and was ready to sign it. That came to a halt when President Obama intervened. According to the White House’s own summary of Obama’s February 3, 2011, call with Saleh, “President Obama expressed concern over the release of Abd-Ilah al-Shai.” …
So it is beyond dispute that the moving force behind the ongoing imprisonment of this Yemeni journalist is President Obama. And the fact that Shaye is in prison, rather than able to report, is of particular significance (and value to the U.S.) in light of the still escalating American attacks in that country. Over the past 3 days alone, American air assaults have killed 64 people in Yemen, while American media outlets — without anyone on the scene — dutifully report that those killed are “suspected Al Qaeda insurgents” and “militants.” …
It is impossible to overstate how similar this case is to some of the worst abuses of the Bush presidency that involved the punitive imprisonment of journalists. ]]
Frankensteinbeck
By the way, does anyone else think there’s a connection between the Republicans doing so badly politically and ratfuckers showing up in such numbers to divert every post about how great Obama is? I’m watching this video, and the man’s a damn genius. The GOP is screaming about contraception, and Obama is owning the economy as a Dem issue.
burnspbesq
@wilfred:
“All I’m asking for is an explanation of why an American war is not mentioned in a campaign video”
Because it’s a campaign video, not an episode of Frontline. It exists for the purpose of making potential voters feel good about voting for Obama. Dwelling on your pet obsession would be counter-productive.
Are you really so obtuse that we have to explain this to you?
gaz
@wilfred: You’re an emoprog moron.
Thank god nobody needs your vote.
samara morgan
@Schlemizel: ok, you are liar then.
you said.
I SAID
it wasnt a dig at your sons service.
like i said, you INTERPRET that as a dig at your sons service.
your son served nobly, but your son got screwed. we all did.
take a fucking number.
Martin
@Culture of Truth:
It’s going to be a cakewalk. But they’re not going to treat it that way. When you have the upper hand in the presidential race, you find some other targets to go after. This cycle it’s holding the Senate and retaking the House, and Obama is going to invest in those things even if it means giving up some of his edge in the Presidential race. And I think he’s going to go after the broader electoral goal of getting voters out to vote – particularly young people and latinos. If we can turn that into a habit with those populations, the GOP will have a very rough time of it.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@wilfred:
wow, so very clever (rolls eyes)
Satanicpanic
@shortstop: Mark Penn couldn’t do better
Bruce S
#73 Chyron HR – problem is, of course, is that Kevin Drum doesn’t have “opposing political views” – just a slight variant. If you’ve got so much time on your hands that Kevin Drum becomes a punching bag or target of willful distortions, you need to rethink your mission as a liberal commentator.
4tehlulz
I guess “lemming” is wilfred’s new insult du jour.
It’s step up from Stepin Fetchit, so progress!
Trurl
As opposed to pinching their nostrils shut and wearily turning out to vote against the other guy – as 10.3% real unemployment will tend to do.
samara morgan
@Trurl:
staving off WWIII so Obama can get re-elected.
Bruce S
“Thank god nobody needs your vote.”
With “supporters” like this, Obama doesn’t need Republicans opposing him…
samara morgan
@Schlemizel: here is one of my favorite quotes from the Prophet(SAW). you can share this with your son if you like.
bi lal kayfah (it is understood)
Xecky Gilchrist
Good grief, it must be Reedy Nasal Whine day. Celebrate – it only comes like 300 times a year.
gaz
@Bruce S: Oh I’m sorry bruce.
Maybe if I coddled wilfred Obama would win…
Now for the rude course correction – back to reality:
No matter what I say or do, wilfred will be standing by in november wondering why nobody is “progressive enough” to represent him. My remark doesn’t change that.
So are you now competing for his “moron of the thread” gold star?
wilfred
@burnspbesq:
Ok, this is relatively close to cerebral cortex material, so I’ll ask the question again.
Thousands of Americans have died in Afghanistan. Not counting wogs and non-Americans. It is the only shooting war that Americans are involved in.
Do you really believe it is on MY obsession, or one that a lot of Americans might be thinking about?
jeffreyw
Thread needs moar puppy.
Martin
@Frankensteinbeck:
What’s really hurting the GOP is that they’ve lost the military/foreign policy narrative completely. There’s always a foreign policy presidential debate, and this one is going to be a joke. Getting into wars, getting out of wars, soft power, hard power, special ops, etc. Obama’s got some success in his record to point to, and not only to point to over Romney/Santorum, but even to point to over Bush.
The daddy party isn’t out there bringing home the bacon and keeping everyone safe, he’s upstairs sniffing panties instead.
Suffern ACE
@burnspbesq: Yeah. But if the Taliban laid down their arms and the people elected a new uncorrupt president, with broad shoulders and a knack for greeting people at the Kanahar County Fair Obama would be all “Look at me. Look what we did.” Don’t you think it’s just a bit dishonest to not mention that that didn’t happen in a campaign video?
gaz
@jeffreyw: Personally I prefer kitteh
but I can get behind the sentiment =)
Nom de Plume
Well you know, according to clear-thinking Glen Greenwald, this video is appalling because campaign videos shouldn’t praise their subjects uncritically.
Egg Berry
@wilfred:
WTF is a “wog”?
Scott P.
Well, we’ve basically wiped out Al-Qaeda, at least as a major international organization capable of organizing mass terror attacks.
For my part, I’m happy to call it quits and get out now, but it’s disingenuous to suggest that we haven’t done more under Obama than we ever did under Bush.
4tehlulz
@Egg Berry: wilfred loves his old school racism
gaz
@wilfred: How many times do you need the answer which you’ve repeatedly received?
You keep getting the same answer over and over. You just happen to not like it. But repeating the question isn’t going to change the answer. It’s just gonna derail the thread and make you look even more stupid than you usually do.
Apparently you don’t have a problem with that. Noted.
Linnaeus
@Egg Berry:
It’s a racist term from British English that historically referred to Africans and especially dark-skinned south Asians. The use has expanded in the past few decades to include people from the Middle East and other parts of Asia.
Ben Franklin
@Suffern ACE:
When you’re selling candy, it’s not wise to advertise that it rots your teeth.
Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity
@Egg Berry: It’s the giveaway that lets you know that our dearest friend wilfred is not an American citizen.
Determining where he is really from will be left as an exercise to the reader.
Neldob
What a cool video! I’m a base and I’m inspired, almost want to go out and buy a flag pin! Democrats- reality based, fiscally responsible, careful (not like those radical, right-wing extremist, borrow and spend, socialize the costs, privatize the profits, unreality-based, lying, careless Republicans who are destroying our country and democracy). Time to go register voters.
gaz
@Ben Franklin: Why is wilfred’s current meme contagious? I expected better of suffern ace, but apparently he got caught up in wilfred’s field-stupidity-vortex
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@jeffreyw:
Yay! puppeh!!
Martin
@wilfred:
Yes, and Obama didn’t start it, nor did he oversee it for it’s first 7 years. So he doesn’t need to justify why we’re there – Bush does. So ask the GOP to put that in their campaign video.
The only thing for Obama to campaign on with Afghanistan is the drawdown, and that’s in the future. This video was about the past. Maybe they’ll do a similar one about his plans for the next 4 years, and if Afghanistan is missing, then you’ll have a valid point.
Trurl
I suppose it would hurt them even more if voters gave a shit about our now being on a permanent war footing – something they’ve long since grown accustomed to – instead of the fact that they don’t have jobs.
Since Obama is unlikely to deliver them many of those, the biggest favor he could do himself towards getting re-elected would be to bring at least one Wall Street prosecution for fraud.
I know he’s tight with those guys and generally likes to get along with folks but really, not a single prosecution makes it look like he’s their bitch or something.
gaz
@Trurl: So you are going to vote for romney, natch.
Martin
@Suffern ACE:
You do realize that Afghanistan is still ongoing, right? Didn’t we get a bit perturbed when Bush ran the Mission Accomplished banner mid-conflict? And now you’re asking Obama to do exactly that?
Yutsano
@jeffreyw: FLOOFY!!
4tehlulz
This video proves that Obama is worse than Bush; after all, Bush mentioned 9/11 in his re-election videos.
Ben Franklin
@gaz:
Why is a reasonable question regarded as evidence of contagion?
wilfred
@ Martin:
The SURGE, asshole. Remember that?
That’s the point.
Suffern ACE
@Martin: Well, yeah. And a lot of Dems got behind Afghanistan as the “Good War Bush Neglected”, mainly as a way to beat Bush over the head about Iraq. But now that that war is unpopular, too, we’ll pretend that Obama ran on exiting Afghanistan as quickly as possible.
gaz
@Ben Franklin: because this
in case you haven’t noticed… HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED AD NAUSEUM THROUGHOUT THE THREAD.
(caps for clarity) yay
colby
@wilfred: I love how you’ve been given an answer like, five times, but still keep thundering “WHY WON’T ANYONE ANSWER MY SIMPLE QUESTION?”
It rather gives away the game nicely.
Suffern ACE
@gaz: I apologize for leaving out the snark hashtag in my comment.
Ben Franklin
@gaz:
Bad on me, for skimming. To be fair, SA’s question was explicit; others, not so much.
Satanicpanic
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Wilfred is beyond that, he’s going for a world record.
gaz
@Suffern ACE: I apologize for missing the snark – my meter is coffee fueled but I’m running on fumes.
Thanks for clarifying – it sure explains a lot.
Yutsano
@gaz: Well yeah. How else is Progressive Paradise supposed to happen?
gaz
@Yutsano: heh.
Free ponies for wilfred and Trurl
Martin
@Trurl:
You do realize that incarcerating Wall Street CEOs is a pretty ineffective jobs program, right? I mean, that’s what, maybe a dozen jobs?
Let’s look at this a different way – are voters better off with a $25B settlement with no immunity from further prosecution, or a couple guys perp-walked? Because there are choices that need to be made here. Even government cannot do all things at all times and invent their own reality.
I understand you just want your pound of justice, but I think it’s reasonable to also believe that many underwater homeowners are more worried about getting out of their situation than seeing a 30 second blurb on Good Morning America about a CEO they’ve never heard of being sentenced. Not saying justice doesn’t matter – but folks like you seem to think that Obama has a golden gavel with which to mete out justice. Hell, most of the things you point to as fraud like robosigning aren’t even federal laws – they’re state laws. DOJ can’t even bring that case.
Trurl
Please note for future reference that not everyone shares the Democratic partisan’s binary mentality with respect to the electoral process.
I don’t want to shock you or anything, but there are actually other candidates running for President besides Thing One and Thing Two. A few of them actually oppose policies like executing American citizens without trial. Let me introduce you to one of them.”
gaz
@Trurl: Wake me when they get elected.
wilfred
So nobody can give a reasonable answer as to why there is no mention of an American war in a campaign video of a sitting American President.
Ok. The thing speaks for itself.
Ben Franklin
@Suffern ACE:
Is it too late for me to add my snark hashtag?
Catsy
@Vincent:
Holy fuck, but there is a lot of stupidity and counterfactual horseshit packed into that one paragraph.
News flash, Sparky: if after the last four years–hell, the last decade–you actually think Obama’s policies are hard right and are think four more years of a Republican war on women and minorities will get us a more liberal president in 2016, you are so appallingly detached from anything resembling reality that your opinions on politics aren’t worth a mime’s fart.
You could, of course, simply be trolling for lulz. It’s always possible. But I can usually smell one of our resident sock puppet trolls a mile away, and your emissions have the distinct odor of an authentic fucktard who actually believes what he’s shoveling and thinks it’s good for something other than growing dandelions.
gaz
@wilfred: You’ve been waiting since the thread started to use that line.
It didn’t really matter that your idiotic question has been addressed no less than 5 times.
You had a game plan damnit – and you were gonna keep soldiering on with it – who cares that the thread didn’t play out like those fantasies you had in your head. who cares that your question (despite being stupid) was addressed repeatedly. DAMN THE TORPEDOS! FULL SPEED AHEAD.
How’s that working out for you?
Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity
@Trurl: annnnd…here we are. The Naderite comes clean.
Yeah, I know she’s not Nader, but there is no difference. Liberals learned this in 2000: vote third party, elect a Republican.
I hope I’m not insulting you by noting that GOP ratfuckers are obviously hoping that the same trick will work again.
Martin
@wilfred:
Then it’s a stupid point. Obama gets handed this shit sandwich, tosses some mustard on it in order to find a way to choke it down, and you want him to campaign on his choice of mustard.
You have a problem with Afghanistan, then go ask Bush/Cheney why they fucking ignored and mismanaged it for 7 years while they went on their Iraq adventure. There was never going to be a good outcome out of Afghanistan. All you have are shitty end-states. That was true in 2008 and it’s true today. It’s not the sort of thing you campaign on. It’s not like Obama refuses to talk about Afghanistan – he talks about it all the fucking time. But it’s not a ‘look back and show what we did and take victory lap’ thing. That’s what Bush did in 2003 with respect to Iraq.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Trurl:
Vanity candidates for vanity people.
kdaug
@geg6:
Stoled.
gaz
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Shorter Trurl:
Pony 2012!
(edit: adding of course, all this emoprog bullshit would really accomplish is something more like Kony 2012 – except whiter)
Yutsano
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Yesbut…they’re PURE and uncorrupted by partisan politics! Never mind the fact that they couldn’t get a damn thing enacted by Congress and would be completely ineffectual. They’d be PURE!!
liberal
@Trurl:
But they should, given first-past-the-post.
wilfred
@Martin:
You know what, you stupid motherfucker, that’s exactly what the fuck I did. Back in the day, I was one of the few, no, only people, who did support Obama, precisely because he was against this neverending war against the wogs.
You stupid shit motherfucker. His own SecDef is talking about staying longer.
And he saw fit to NOT mention Af after he bought it with his surge.
Don’t talk your shit to me you stupid, clown ass motherfucker. I live this shit every fucking day, every day I get a haircut, or get shaved, or somebody cleans my office and asks me why Afghan Muslim children get killed.
Shut the fuck up, you stupid, pathetic fucking twat, or come up with some answers to the people I talk to, not the fucking gowls you talk to here.
Take your time, asshole.
Catsy
@Martin:
Perp walks. Jail time. It’s not even close.
Whether or not the public knows who these criminals are or have even heard their names is beside the point. It’s about deterrence. Fines don’t discourage these kinds of people from criminal behavior; they have plenty of money and can always make more. Money paid out in settlements or fines for criminal wrongdoing are simply a cost of doing business, to be balanced against the potential gains. It has always been thus.
What will deter this kind of misbehavior is hard time in a Federal prison. Prosecute the motherfuckers and put them in jail. Take away two, five, ten years of their lives, make them personally accountable for all the harm they’ve done, and force them to deal with consequences that can’t simply be absorbed on a balance sheet. Then you will see some changes in behavior.
Martin
@Suffern ACE:
The only people that are pretending that are the firebaggers that are pissed off that he didn’t do that. Obama’s position was pretty clear – get out of Iraq, push needed resources into Afghanistan to do as much damage to Al Qaeda as possible in a year or so, and then get out. You may not like that plan, but that was pretty much the plan he campaigned on, and that’s pretty much what he did. Did it turn out awesome? No. Would it have been more awesome if he had just yanked us out back then? I don’t think so. I’m glad he got OBL, and that wouldn’t have happened if we weren’t there. Are the Afghan people better off because we stayed? I think so, but not so much better off that we should be printing up banners. It’s still all a shit sandwich. So, he’s done what he said he would do and we’re going to get out. I don’t think he would see it as a victory or a defeat. I don’t think we should either. It just is. Some things are like that.
gaz
Now wilfred is claiming complete control over the electorate.
He’s the only reason obama is in office right now…
wait. so this is all HIS FAULT! … (alright everybody grab your pitchforks and torches – let’s get the SOB!)
Clime Acts
@Vincent:
Oh my. I just started reading this thread: I can’t wait to get to the responses to this. hahahaha…the Bots must be frothing…
Larkspur
@jeffreyw: Jeffrey with two Fs, Jeffrey! We needed something, this always is just the case, so thanks for the cute lil puppy face. Now all I need is coffee. I watched the Obama vid, saw the puppy, and now I go for coffee!
And maybe some pie. You know who you are.
Clime Acts
@wvng:
Which means he has done a shitty job of getting his message out there, no?
Kane
I don’t know of anyone currently in politics who could have addressed so many overwhelming challenges with such clarity while withstanding so much abuse with such dignity and grace.
Even with all of the problems and challenges we continue to face, the country is in a much better place today than it was a few years ago.
Martin
@wilfred:
It’s still a stupid point. Being a dick won’t make your point less stupid.
Martin
@Clime Acts:
If only there were a campaign season coming up. Oh, look! Whew, how lucky can a guy get!
Brachiator
@wilfred:
Yep.
Will you go away now?
Trurl
Right on schedule. “A vote for anyone besides the Democrat is tantamount to a vote for the Republican! You don’t have the luxury of voting your conscience! The stakes are too high!”
Well, you and I are going to disagree on the significance of whether the right wing or the far right wing of the Republicrat Party oversees the empire for the next four years. And I doubt Obama would have a chance at Utah’s electoral votes even if I managed to suppressed the urge to vomit long enough to vote for him. As you might imagine, Mormon candidates present no problems whatsoever here. So if anyone has the luxury of voting his conscience, it’s me.
But that’s beside the point. Now that Obama has proclaimed the right to execute American citizens without trial, refusing to vote for him is simply an act of self-preservation. You won’t begrudge me that, I hope.
Or do you want to reassure me that, as a non-Muslim, I am safe from Obama’s Kill Doctrine?
Emma
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: That is a wonderful idea. We should develop scoring cards for our trolls.
wilfred
@ Gaz:
Oh for fuck’s sake. Back in the day, when John Edwards was bullshitting his way through the Democratic electorate and Hilary was emitting dog whistles through Apalachia a certain percentage of the electorate was backing Obama precisely because he was against the war in Iraq and said that if he’d been part of the Senate at the time that he would have opposed the war.
So, from the point of view of someone who supported Obama back in those days, please tell me why it is necessary, expedient, important, right, or any other reason to omit the war in Afghanistan from a campaign video.
Go ahead.
Catsy
@Brachiator:
Yeah, how’d that work out for us in the last decade? I seem to remember this little thing called the Bush administration. Granted, it did indeed result in a backlash–the Democratic resurgence in 2006 was a reaction to that, and eight years of Republican governance certainly helped Obama pad his margin of victory in 2008.
But let’s keep in mind that we’re talking about people who are simultaneously arguing that that four more years of Republican governance would shock people back to their senses and elect a real liberal–while also arguing that Obama–whose election was aided in part by exactly this kind of backlash against the last Republican administration–is a right-wing tool who will be a disaster for progressives.
If they really think that Obama is that awful, how can they still argue that subjecting the country to another four years of a Republican presidency will magically result in a true progressive this time?
Because shut up, that’s why.
Martin
@Catsy:
But what people overlook is that the CEOs aren’t going anywhere. We can still toss them in jail a year from now. But the cramdowns that everyone demanded a year or two ago are now happening thanks to the settlement. Does it deter future behavior? No, but it helps restore to the victims some of what was lost – and that should matter just as much. And they are going somewhere, so it makes sense to prioritize that.
gaz
@Trurl: Well at least you’ve figured out how electoral votes work.
Like you, I’ll vote independent in the prez election. I (like you) don’t live in a swing state – so any vote I make for anyone other than 3rd party candidate is a wasted vote for me).
At least this way they carve out enough of the electorate to be taken seriously in a few election cycles (maybe)
This is the LONG GAME though. Your pony will not get elected this year.
And by undermining Obama (even you have legitimate disagreemets with him) only serves the Republicans in this election cycle. If that’s what you really want be my guest.
I encourage you to vote 3rd party. But your emoprog bullshit will not get you that pony. Again, the pony is part of the LONG GAME. First we need a viable 3rd party.
wilfred
@ Martin:
Nope. The point stands. Unless we can’t talk about it because, oh, I don’t know – mission accomplished?
The country is at war. A sitting President who ‘owns’ the war from this surge, said so.
Just give a fucking answer, and stop being a fucking twat.
ruemara
@Catsy: Really? I vaguely recall a guy named Mike Milliken.
A Humble Lurker
@wilfred:
Because it’s a video about things that have been accomplished. Things that are over. Health care? Over. GM bailout? Over. Iraq? Over. Afghanistan? Not over. So you can’t really tout it as an accomplishment or something that is over and done with now can you, Mr. Woggy-wog?
Emma
@wilfred: Jesus Christ. How often are people going to explain it? IT ISN’T THERE BECAUSE IT’S NOT A FEEL GOOD THING AND CAMPAIGN VIDEOS ARE FEEL GOOD THINGS. Got it?
Emma
@wilfred: I live this shit every fucking day, every day I get a haircut, or get shaved, or somebody cleans my office and asks me why Afghan Muslim children get killed.
Now I’m curious. Where do you live? Because I’ve got to tell you, it’s not a major piece of conversation anywhere I go in the US.
Martin
@Catsy:
Ok, but we now have a complete contradiction in the argument.
At first we’re told that Obama shouldn’t be reelected, instead we should get a right-wing nut job, and that will usher in a true progressive. And now we’re being told that the last right-wing nut job did usher in a true progressive, that being Obama. Which is it?
We’ve run this experiment. We ran to the point that we damn near fell into a full blown Depression. And Obama was the outcome. If he’s too moderate, then your theory is a failure. If he’s proof of your theory, then he should be re-elected. It can’t be both. Or is this a “Progressivism can never fail, it can only be failed” kind of thing?
Martin
@wilfred:
Still a stupid point.
wilfred
@ Emma:
I live in Oman, in a small town in the interior. You never heard of it. There are are more Pashtun, Bangladeshi and Pakistani than you can dream of.
But what you said was all that necessary. It’s politics, no more, no less. But don’t lie about it, don’t dress it up like sunday school or PTA day.
A pig is a pig. Whether you talk about it or not. Have some guts, for fuck’s sake.
Wee Bey
@wilfred:
You know you’re mentally ill, right?
Catsy
@wilfred:
Your concern trolling one-note-Johnnyism is getting rather tiresome. I get that the war in Afghanistan is your Most Important Issue, and you have succeeded in communicating your deep butthurt over having mention of it omitted in this particular video. Truly, we get it: this bothers you.
The problem is that you have failed to articulate any persuasive reason why we should buy into your notion that this is some sort of unforgivable, inexcusable omission. You keep demanding that we justify that omission to your satisfaction, a demand which to me has about as much value as someone who demands to know why the band they paid to see didn’t play the fan’s personal favorite song.
Guess what? There’s a lot of things Obama didn’t cover in this video. Some of them are things that I, personally, think are rather important. As it so happens, I think the war in Afghanistan is one of those important things, which is why I appreciate the fact that it’s winding down as promised and that Obama takes the time to talk about it all the time. It means that I am not bothered by the fact that it was not among the subjects he chose to cover here, because I know it’s an important part of his agenda that he hasn’t forgotten and is actively working to resolve, and I do not make the mistake of assuming that any given single speech or video from him is indicative of the limits of his priorities.
Marc
@Trurl:
The “not a dimes worth of difference” line was always bullshit. It’s a willful and obvious lie given recent events.
If you can’t tell the difference between Rick Santorum and Barak Obama you’re either a republican plant pretending to be a liberal or a deluded fringe kook. And your opinion counts for nothing with me either way.
4tehlulz
Iraq = Afghanistan
Catsy
@Martin: You may want to re-read my comment. The fact that this is a contradiction was the entire point, which I stated outright in the second paragraph. I get the impression you think I hold the opinion that I was holding up for ridicule.
Wee Bey
I hereby demand Obama campaign on cancer and how awesome it is. Any failure to do so marks him impure, and I shall withhold my vote in the hopes a Republican will be better.
Emma
@wilfred: In case you haven’t noticed, we’re telling it like it is. Several responses have been exactly identical to mine. Yes, it’s politics. Guess what? In a democracy it’s all about politics. BECAUSE THAT’S HOW THINGS GET DONE WITHOUT KILLING EACH OTHER IN SECTARIAN WARFARE.
Our best bet to close this out is Obama. He’s not doing it as fast as you and I would like but I can guaran-double-damn-tee you that at this point a Republican president would be the worst nightmare for the US AND the Middle East. So we work to elect Obama.
wilfred
@ Martin:
“Still a stupid point”
That’s an answer? To what question? Americans and other people die or are maimed every day in the name of what exactly – something that can’t even be named in an American political process?
I have to work in the morning, but I will make a point of naming every American kid who gets killed in Af from the day that the war was not worthy of a mention in the campaign prop of a sitting American president.
And you can tell me it’s not the point. Ok?
4tehlulz
@wilfred: HAHA LIKE YOU CARE
wilfred
@ Emma:
Spoken like a trooper. One problem. If you sat one day where I was, you’d know it was way, way too late for that.
Time, place, people. It’s later than you think. I’, trying to make you realize the urgency of something. Take it for what it’s worth.
Afghanistan has to end today. This isn’t about party politics or winning elections, It’s about what is good for Americans as Americans.
You have to see this. Right now.
Wee Bey
You are not the cosmos, son.
wilfred
@Catsy:
“The problem is that you have failed to articulate any persuasive reason why we should buy into your notion that this is some sort of unforgivable, inexcusable omission”
You know, I really don’t know what goes on in Homeland. What I do know is that the lawyer assigned to the soldier accused of shooting 16 Afghans, 9 children, dead was all over the news here saying all kinds of things, mainly insinuating that these actions were because this man was assigned too many time to Iraq and Af.
Have you seen that? I have to answer questions about that. Do you, pathetic idiot that you are.
Of course not. When it comes to the implications of American foreign policy you don’t have to answer for, or think, or consider any goddamned thing.
You’re a fish swimming in darkened, polluted water. You onbly respond when someone points out that that there are places where the water is clear.
Davis X. Machina
@wilfred:
Started a bail fund for you. Have at it.
Catsy
@Martin: To be a bit clearer: I’m not the one arguing that electing a Republican will get us a “real” progressive next time, so whether or not Obama is one is beside the point to me. Their argument is bunk because four years of Bush got us another four years of Bush, not a true progressive in 2004. And those additional four years of Bush gave us Obama, who is either (according to these idiots) a right-wing tool or (according to sane people) a center-left moderate Democrat; in neither case did those additional four years of Bush give us a “true progressive”.
So why they think a repudiation of Obama in favor of four more years of a wingnut will result in a progressive is beyond me. It’s magical thinking–worse, it’s the magical thinking of someone who either hasn’t truly thought through the devastating consequences of electing Republicans, or who is a sociopath willing to inflict those consequences on millions of Americans for the sake of the possibility of getting a more progressive Democrat next time.
gaz
@wilfred: same question. same answer.
Catsy
@wilfred: Yawn. Let me know when you want to actually respond to something I’ve written rather than using it as an excuse to jump on your soapbox. I get that you are personally invested in this particular issue and that this makes it front and center for you. But at this point you’re just grandstanding and it’s not impressing anyone or persuading them that they should regard the omission of this topic in this particular video as some kind of grievous error.
I am reminded once again of Shaw: “he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.”
You are behaving as if your priorities and take on this video are laws of nature and absolute matters of right and wrong. It is quite tedious and not at all persuasive to anyone who is not already convinced of your righteousness.
samara morgan
@wilfred: wilfred, i answered your question. the mini-surge was never any different from the original surge….cover to GTFO.
why do you think McC fired himself? because he couldnt make the withdrawal timetable.
now you, Karzai, and the Taliban are united in a desire to see the US gtfo tomorrow, but how will that affect the bigger kepler trigo matrix for the ME?
Our Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Israel is already shitting bricks over our ignominous exit from Iraq. Zardari is pleading for the US to stay to balance the rising Pakistani anti-american power increasingly spearheaded by Imran Khan, and the Saudis are pleading for us to stay to try to get some permanent airbases in A-stan, since we didnt get any in Iraq.
none of this stuff happens in a vacumn.
now, if you relly care about the “wogs” where you live, help Obama to get re-elected. because then we will gtfo immediately.
otherwise, stfu and diaf.
Emma
@wilfred: Even if I accepted your premise, I can tell you one thing: NO.IT.WON’T.
If you’re an American, you’re being strangely ignorant of American history. If you’re some version of British Empire, it’s even worse: you’re being deliberately obtuse.
But it doesn’t change the fact that people have answered your question about the video and you have ignored the answers every time.
wilfred
Ok, for the record – why can’t, or couldn’t Obama, talk about the war in Afghanistan?
Has any sitting President campaigned WITHOUT mentioning a war that the country was involved in? Take your time?
It’s a war, not a tax, or a marginal civil rights issue, or anything goddamned else that DOES NOT effect all of us, all the time.
But it’s not there. Explain.
Tone In DC
@kdaug:
Heh. Indeed.
Emma
@wilfred: Ok, I’ll take it. Campaign speeches? Yes. Campaign videos and ads? Not unless we’re winning or the majority of the American people support it. Campaign ads are all about getting (re)elected, and that is all is all about presenting your best side. There will be more in-depth speeches about most substantive things, and they will be reported in the press.
Dammit, man. Are you so stubbornly blind by nature or just on this issue?
samara morgan
@wilfred: he will talk about it after hes re-elected and we can gtfo.
what is the point of mentioning it now?
he apologized for the Quran burning and the Nine Dead Children.
btw, just when did we declare war on Afghanistan?
i thought OEF was billed as a nation building exercise, backing up Karzai is regime change, and the Hunt for Bin Laden was a law enforcement op…
Bruce S
gaz – “So are you now competing for his ‘moron of the thread’ gold star?”
It would be hard to get in that line in front of you given your glib bullshit.
FWIW, I am not in a tizzy about this video, one way or the other, because it’s a campaign video to energize OFA acolytes that won’t figure into the realities of the election at all. What I do find moronic is telling someone like wilfred that we don’t need their vote. We do. And these stupid bloggy shitfit round-abouts are just masturbation for folks who don’t have anything better to do and are largely absent from real politics.
Tone In DC
Walmart must have had one of those “buy one troll, get three for free” deals this week.
As for the choices eight months hence, I’ve got four words for all those undecided folks out there. “Vice President Sarah Palin”.
wilfred
Allright, I give up.
How is it possible to champion a campaign video that COMPLETELY ignores that the country is involved in a deeply stupid and increasingly futile war?
I really don’t get it. Campaigning to whom? A stupid motherfucking HOMELANDER who can’t, or will not, or is incapable of asking any of the questions that I asked here?
!7 years I’m out of your cesspool but goddamnit six ways to motherfucking hell – Is it that fucking bad? Is it so bad that the most rudimentary questions about intentions are met with the same combination of vitirol and misunderstanding as mine?
Goddamn. You people are lost, you know that, right?
Yutsano
@wilfred: I suppose. Want a cookie now?
samara morgan
@Schlemizel: hey, please run this past your son for me, since hes been there.
there are a lot of problems with westerners gifting Qurans to muslims.
but what if the US just donated money to local mosques to buy Qurans thru a local NGO?
would that be doable?
samara morgan
@wilfred: did the US declare war on Afghanistan?
guess i missed it.
;)
Catsy
@wilfred:
If you think Obama can’t or doesn’t talk about the war in Afghanistan, you are simply not paying enough attention to what he says in public to have an opinion on the matter of any value.
If what you mean is, why doesn’t he in this particular video–I must first of all note how numerous people in this very thread have pointed out to you that this is a “feel-good” video about accomplishments. Issues with closure that communicate a message of positive accomplishment rather than the wall of pessimism and negativity coming from the Republican primary. It is about drawing a contrast with Republicans, rebutting the lies that he’s accomplished nothing, and inspiring his supporters.
Does the war in Afghanistan count as such an accomplishment? Of course not. It may be winding down, but it’s still ongoing. It was very likely not among the subjects raised here for the same reason that, say, the War on (some) Drugs or the thwarted closure of Guantanamo wasn’t: because it’s off-topic.
You have either completely ignored every single one of these points, or breezed right past them and replied with yet another of your grandstanding screeds that doesn’t actually acknowledge that you have, in fact, been given a number of very plausible reasons for the omission–they’re just not reasons that you like or want to hear.
This despite the fact that you’re demanding we justify something that, quite frankly, does not require justification. You may think the omission of Afghanistan in this particular video alone is some sort of grievous wrong, but nobody else seems to give a shit or understand why you’re so bent out of shape about it–probably because unlike you, we’re capable of viewing this video in its proper context, as what it was meant to be rather than what you want it to be, and without pretending that this means a president who’s spent the last four years talking about Afghanistan doesn’t want to talk about Afghanistan.
Emma
@wilfred: Lord God. I give up. You really are past reason here. Also, you people? Send us a note when you change your citizenship. We’ll send you a present.
gaz
@Bruce S:
Then go ahead and try to get through his thick skull.
When you do, let us know what works, alright?
St. Jude smiles upon you.
Bruce S
Incidentally, I find it interesting that a guy who actually spends 24/7 in the Middle East – whether one agrees with his sense of urgency or not, or the naivete about a fucking campaign video, of all things – ends up targeted as the “moron” on this thread for his views related to the impact of the war in Afghanistan.
Puts a lot of the verbal gymnastics in perspective…
gaz – you’re not exactly a study in persuasion or taking issues seriously. Just bloggy attitude. Which is “good enough” I guess.
samara morgan
All:
did the US ever formally declare war on Afghanistan?
anyone?
gaz
@Emma: This. (Bruce S, are you taking notes?)
wrb
@wilfred:
Maybe not everyone enjoys war as much as you do. Do you expect the president to satisfy your every desire? Get Netflicks, you can rent your own war p0rn.
Yutsano
@wilfred: Because he chose not to. Get over it.
Emma
By the way, before anyone jumps in and starts attacking me, I am not saying “America, love it or leave it” bullshit. I am saying that someone who refers to America as a cesspool and to all Americans as stupid motherfucking homelanders has already made his decision.
gaz
@Bruce S:
I assure you that my attitude is not restricted to the blog.
Don’t you have a numbskull you should be working at convincing to vote? I mean after all, you seem so sure that I’ve taken the wrong tact by abandoning wilfred and his non-vote…
Maybe you should show us how it’s done. Bring your formidable powers of persuasion to bear where they really matter. Let’s see you convince wilfred of anything. You should relish the teachable moment, no? Again, show us how it’s done.
Catsy
@Bruce S:
No, no, no, no, no.
This moron is not being targeted because of his views on Afghanistan. I’m sure he has a lot of very interesting perspectives to offer on what things are like over there. That would be great if this were a thread or subject where the state of that war was in any way relevant.
This moron is being targeted because of his tedious insistence that the fact that Obama didn’t mention an ongoing war in a feel-good video meant to inspire supporters and draw a contrast with GOP negativity is some kind of horrible slight that means Obama doesn’t want to talk about the war. Against all evidence and in spite of having spent the last four years doing exactly that.
In short, he wants this video to be something other than what it is, and is not listening to anyone who points out that this is not the State of the Union address where what isn’t said is actually significant in some way, it’s a feel-good inspirational video.
His perspectives on the middle east are completely irrelevant to that, whether or not they are of any value otherwise.
samara morgan
@Catsy: but its not a war, officially. its a “conflict”.
Bruce S
gaz – it’s really not worth the time. I’ve got local anti-foreclosure work to get to. You want a fucking sense of urgency AND attitude over something dire, impacting millions of Americans, that Obama hasn’t done a damned thing about? Fortunately, I can hold two opposing ideas in my head at the same time.
Trurl
That reminds me of how Bush’s die-hards were always whining about how anyone who pointed out that Iraq was a quagmire were “undermining” the President and generally introducing foreign substances into his precious bodily fluids.
You Leader-fetishists are all the same.
Trurl
That reminds me of how Bush’s die-hards were always whining about how anyone who pointed out that Iraq was a quagmire were “undermining” the President and generally introducing foreign substances into his precious bodily fluids.
You Leader-fetishists are all the same.
gaz
@Bruce S: Oh so it’s not worth the time.
And yet you find the time to criticize me, when you’ve already dismissed him yourself.
The only difference I see here, is that I actually said so, and you just kept your yap shut, except to criticize me for doing the same thing that you’ve resigned yourself to (albeit silently)
Clime Acts
@wilfred:
Well here in the Obot Land that is BJ…the answer to your question is, yes, it is that bad.
Bruce S
Catsy – “no, no, no”
But yes, yes, yes, it puts his reaction into perspective…and dare I say a more interesting perspective than “Hey, I just clicked on Balloon Juice and feel a need to run my mouth. Because perhaps, just perhaps, someone like Kevin Drum has asked untoward questions about the Obama administration.”
gaz
@Trurl: Double Post Fail.
Out of context fail.
Only two fails in that post? You are slipping.
Martin
@Catsy:
My sincere apologies. I think Wilfred knocked a pile of stupid into me.
Bruce S
gaz – I don’t really give a shit about whether you try to persuade him or not, but the line “we don’t need your vote” in this context is perverse. That’s just a fact.
Catsy
@samara morgan: I’m not playing your semantic games, loko. You know full well that the question of whether the United States Congress has officially declared war against another country has fuckall-minus-one to do with whether or not the conflict is a “war” in the universally understand, plain dictionary definition of the word.
wilfred
“This moron is not being targeted because of his views on Afghanistan. I’m sure he has a lot of very interesting perspectives to offer on what things are like over there. That would be great if this were a thread or subject where the state of that war was in any way relevant.”
I love this. Your hero did not see fit to mention the sacrfice that his minions make every day in this stupid fucking war.
I will hereby remind you every goddamnded day that I see you or your stupid fucking screen name, or any other of you stupid motherfuckers who think that this does not matter.
Count on it, motherfucker.
gaz
@Bruce S: The larger point is wilfred is perverse.
Brachiator
@Trurl:
Wel, no.
But thanks for trying.
@wilfred:
Promise?
A Humble Lurker
@Clime Acts:
Ah, the pedophile defender is back.
Say, you never did get back to me about Mnem’s analogy. You said you would say why it wasn’t apt, but you never did. Want to now?
Catsy
@Bruce S: The fact that he lives in the ME does put his behavior in this thread on this topic into perspective, in the sense that it is understandable why the war in Afghanistan is his most important issue.
What it does not do is invest his point about the campaign video with value it does not have.
If we were arguing about an issue where his knowledge of the ME were germane, that would be different. If we were discussing the merits of US foreign policy in that region, I would welcome his perspective and likely defer to his firsthand knowledge.
But we are not. What we are arguing about is a feel-good campaign video, and whether or not Obama is horribly wrong for not having mentioned Afghanistan in it. Wilfred’s knowledge of the middle east has no bearing on this issue, which is only incidentally about Afghanistan and could have just as easily been raised by someone whose #1 issue was, say, the Drug War–his emotions about the issue are what’s driving this.
Ben Franklin
@Catsy:
Well, let’s all fuck with his emotions…. :>)
Catsy
@wilfred:
Well, that’s a relief, since not one single person on this thread has ever said that the war in Afghanistan doesn’t matter. We just keep pointing out that what Obama didn’t say in this video doesn’t matter and is of no significance. Your absolute inability to distinguish between these two things is what created this entire contretemps.
Nah, kiddo, count on being added to my pie filter with the rest of the trolls who can’t be bothered to read. Bleat on with your bad self.
chopper
@wilfred:
you’ve gotten the answer like five times. it’s a campaign video. for reelection. no, a president running for reelection is not going to bring up any quagmires in his reelection video. he also isn’t going to make mention of how many abortions have happened during his first term either.
welcome to politics.
wilfred
@ Catsy:
What the fuck in hell is wrong with you? This isn’t about me. Where I am, people love me – they don’t give a shit about blogs or politics, For the amount of money I give every month to the Keralese who clean my office I could buy a Bedu girl for a second or third wife and laugh at your pathetic shit fucking self.
This isn’t about me. These wars have destroyed our country, have destroyed our posterity, the chance that our children could have had to feel the good and the beautiful about these lovely and loving people.
But you stupid, pathetic shits feel nothing for the beauty or life of this place. Drop the fuck dead for fuck’s sake.
Martin
@wilfred:
So what you’re really upset about is why Obama’s campaign video isn’t courting the all-important inner-Oman vote?
How about this. Why don’t you link to a campaign video from an Oman elected official and we’ll critique how well it addresses the issues we hear in our barbershops every day?
john
What wilford wants is someone to answer the questions of the people that ask him questions because he’s a ex-pat. Look motherfucker you volunteered to go there and stay there and are probably getting paid well to do it. If it is too hard to be an American or Brit, or whatever, then leave, you no load son-of-a- bitch.
wilfred
@ john:
I went there on the Fulbright Hays, you stupid shit,
@ Catsy:
What the fuck in hell is wrong with you? This isn’t about me. Where I am, people love me – they don’t give a shit about blogs or politics, For the amount of money I give every month to the Keralese who clean my office I could buy a Bedu girl for a second or third wife and laugh at your pathetic shit fucking self.
This isn’t about me. These wars have destroyed our country, have destroyed our posterity, the chance that our children could have had to feel the good and the beautiful about these lovely and loving people.
But you stupid, pathetic shits feel nothing for the beauty or life of this place. Drop the fuck dead for fuck’s sake.
john
Looks like someone else is paying your way, Wilford and you can’t be bothered to step up and answer a few hard questions the local unwashed ask you. It must be Obama’s fault. I’m done with you. i’ve seen too many of your type.
Emma
@wilfred: Deep breath. I will dial it back and try to be reasonable one more time. Call it my mitzvah for the day.
You are heavily invested in the place where you have lived for 17 years. I can understand that, and respect it. So can most people in this thread. We know how bad the Afghanistan thing is. WE KNOW. We also know that the best chance we have of ending the problem is re-electing Obama. Do you understand that? Or are you one of those Americans that does not understand that the American political system is a binary one? We support Obama in large part because we know the other side is much worse.
As to the video, it is a way to show the President’s accomplishments to the majority of voters. People invested in politics have already made a decision. It’s the large amorphous middle that he has to convince. So he has produced a feel-good, this-is-what-my-administration-has-accomplished-so-far video. Thorny issues are left out of most of those videos because they muddy the waters, and these videos are a form of special pleading.
BTW? Saying people love you so much that you could buy yourself a young girl? Not really a good way of convincing people.
Clime Acts
@wilfred:
Wilfred, don’t let the Bots get to you…blind worship of Obama is all they know.
The idea that in a campaign video a savvy candidate might choose to confront the elephant in the room and explain why things are the way they are and what’s getting better hasn’t even occurred to them either.
Failure of the imagination is common to the authoritarian mindset among the Bot subset at BJ.
There are sane commenters here; they just don’t swarm every thread like the Bots do.
amused
willie doesn’t give a shit about the “wogs” or US soldiers. He’s just pissed he has to answer uncomfortable questions while he’s buying hisself a sex slave. Poor dear!
Brachiator
@wilfred:
I think you just lost any claim to any moral high ground here, twinkie.
Buying women and bragging that you are the local equivalent to a 1 percenter. “The Keralese” who cleans your office.
To the contrary. It’s all about you and your little tantrums.
Emma
@Clime Acts: On the other hand, I don’t owe you a mitzvah. Blind worship is what people like you do, with your altars to principles that accomplish nothing except making you feel morally superior to the great masses. F’off.
(edit) not that you can owe a mitzvah but y’all know what I mean.
xian
@Brachiator: heighten the contradictions, as the Ramparts crowd said when they endorsed Reagan in ’68, as the Naderites said in 2000.
Martin
@wilfred:
You could have saved us all a lot of effort if you had just admitted up front you were a Romney voter.
redshirt
Ah, I feel as if we actually reached some sort of resolution here! Progress!
rikyrah
I loved it. running on the record…yeah yeah yeah
wilfred
@ Brachiator:
She’s 26. Black eyed, black haired, braided, oiled, Bedu… she makes bread for me and sends me oud through her sister.
It will cost me 5000 US just to talk to her father, the rest I can negotiate. You can’t even fucking imagine what I’m talking about, what I feel and live every day, what it means to be a man here. What it will take for me to talk to her father and brothers by myself.
It’s because you’re already fucking dead. Her name is Iman Suleiman.
I thank G-d for the life I have, and pity you yours.
David Koch
Guys, I know it’s tempting. But it’s best to ignore the trolls. Your energy is better spent focusing on the positive and ignoring the negative.
xian
this wilfred thing gets creepier the more it talks. also seems to have a touch of tourette’s, the scatological type.
Catsy
@wilfred:
So I said I was going to pie wilfred, and I did, but after seeing the replies to this particular gem I had to temporarily disable it just to see if the original statement–in context–was as bad as it sounded from the partial quotes.
It is, and I am grateful for it, because it is very telling that when called out for his poor arguments and emo grandstanding, wilfred somehow thought that this would be a persuasive, germane response. When challenged on matters of substance, wilfred felt the need to brag about how loved he is by the locals and how the wage he pays his housecleaner could buy another human being for him to keep as a “second or third wife”, which would allow him to feel superior to us.
I think I have to throw in the towel here. After this, I don’t think anything I say could make him look any worse than he’s already managed.
dogwood
I think Wilfred has shown his hand. US foreign policy has made his life uncomfortable in the male paradise of Oman where you can buy a wife for the price of a cleaning lady and brag about it.
Emma
@wilfred: Oh. Dear. God. Good bye.
4tehlulz
@wilfred: Did you check her teeth?
wilfred
You really don’t get it, do you? QED. A man would get it.
Every day I live. You’re already dead.
Kropotkin's Ceard
Obama is slightly better on social policy than Romney, but other than that they both are on the same page. As each year passes, the parties grow more and more similar. What’s inflated, and what most people react to, are the social issues. But, you know, not even Obama is for gay marriage or pot legalization. Obama is a very conservative right winger in an age of reaction.
shortstop
@wilfred: Wogs, gowls, kacking and apologising. If only you and Vincent could vote in the U.S., maybe we’d try to get you on our side. Just kidding. No one wants you on their side.
4tehlulz
@wilfred: Cool story, bro.
Clime Acts
You know, the reaction here to the reality of life and society where Wilfred actually lives is quite telling.
So…to summarize: Bots have no interest in the REALITY on the ground in the places Obama is enabling U.S. military imperialism; it’s all just so irrelevant to their campaign rhetoric.
Catsy
@wilfred:
No, a man would own the fact that he started a lengthy argument based on false premises. A man would have the self-awareness to understand when he had thoroughly humiliated and discredited himself, and bow out. A man would not see women as a commodity to be bought or traded, let alone brag about his ability to do so on the cheap and deem it a basis for feeling superior to others. A man would not dismiss the value of a person’s opinions based on their gender.
A real man–or a real woman, for that matter–would understand these things. A real man would not have written what you did, let alone thought it clever.
You’re not a man. You’re an emasculated boy-child who’s found a place where possession of a dick means even someone of his low means can live out his power fantasies, and who has confused being a big turd in a little bowl for manhood.
Now go away, you sad, petulant child.
samara morgan
@wilfred: wallah.
a jew buying a bedouin slave girl.
like that hasnt been done before.
how old are you wilfred?
does she love you? are going to revert to Islam for her? you do understand you cant be married unless you revert to Islam. muslimahs cant legally marry outside their faith.
Emma
@Clime Acts: I’m supposed to be in love with the REALITY that he’s upset because the US is stepping on his ability to buy himself a wife? Again. F’off.
Clime Acts
@Catsy:
Are all Middle Eastern Muslim men sad, petulant children?
Your faux outrage that things are not as you would like them to be everywhere in the whole wide world, and that you just found this out, is hilariously revealing.
Almost as faux as your faux claims to be Pit Filtering people.
4tehlulz
Wow this is a level of fucked up I never expected here.
Clime Acts
@Emma:
As usual, you’re hysterically reacting to words that weren’t typed, except in your head…
Yes, I wrote “hysterical.” Own it.
gaz
@Catsy: Pretty much yeah.
Maybe he had to move there because he couldn’t buy women here.
makes one wonder.
samara morgan
for the unintiate, wilfred’s use of G-d for god means hes jewish.
Clime Acts
@4tehlulz:
Is it news to you that the traditions Wilfred refers to actually exist? Are you that sealed off from reality?
gaz
@Clime Acts: News flash. subjugating women and treating them as chattel has been a longstanding human tradition.
It doesn’t make it moral, or justified.
Keep fucking that chicken.
samara morgan
@Clime Acts: well, wilfred is a jewish american, claiming hes going to marry a muslimah.
i think any negotiations with her father and brothers are strictly a cash transaction.
eemom
@4tehlulz:
ditto. I’m sitting here staring at the screen wondering how I landed in the cyber-Twilight Zone.
4tehlulz
@samara morgan: Nope. Try again.
Clime Acts
@gaz:
So, all the more reason Obama should quit fucking around in the middle east, don’t you think?
BTW, ummmm….the U.S. may be “out” of Iraq if you don’t count the thousands of contractors it is paying there, but the country is surrounded by U.S. military bases and personnel. Who are you kidding?
Riilism
John Cole,
I here do nominate this comment thread, on this day, Friday, March 16th, 2012, as the weirdest, most fucked-up thread in the history of the intertubes….
Emma
@Clime Acts: Hysterical (adjetive): referring to those who have wombs in a negative fashion. Usually used by cowardly internet trolls who have masculinity issues.
Owned.
And agreed with the others that could nominate this as the most WTF thread ever encountered.
samara morgan
@Emma: she wont be his wife. they cant legally be married in Oman unless wilfred reverts.
and i doubt her family is going to convert to christianity or judaism. especially not her father and brothers.
;)
marian
@eemom:
Heart of Darkness.
Kurtz just walked in and pulled up a chair.
Niques
Jeez, wilfred . . . it is ONE VIDEO. It’s not his entire campaign. He probably ate lunch that day, too. Didn’t mention that, did he?
Emma
@samara morgan: I had missed the significance of that particular way of addressing the Deity. I should have known better.
wilfred
@ Samara:
You’re a fraud and a retard. Where the fuck have you been for the past years. Who the fuck do you think you’re talking to you?
You think I can buy a rashidi, or balushi girl if I’m not a Muslim?? Revert to what, you fraudalent child?
The point here is our way is not your way. I’ll take another wife, or two, or three, if it suits me and I can make them happy, and myself happy. And I can.
Is it so difficult to imagine a way of life different to yours?
Lakum deenakum waliya deen.
Clime Acts
@samara morgan:
So I’m just kind of giggling at the Bot reaction to the shocking news that such things go on every day all over the world, and that someone who lives and interacts in that world would DARE to show their face at BJ…it is hilarious.
wrb
Did America really go to war to secure supplies of inexpensive women?
samara morgan
@Clime Acts: we are out. we dont have a single base there. we ceded all the 505 bases to the Maliki government, including the three largest airbases ever built on foreign soil with american taxpayer dollars.
all we got out of Iraq was a big muslim boot in Americas fat white ass.
Clime Acts
@eemom:
Oh eemom, surely YOU’RE not going to claim to be a naive wilting delicate flower too, are you?
gaz
@Clime Acts:
I’ll enumerate your FAIL parade (but I applaud your ability to pack so much stupid into one little post)
Avoiding substance of my post: FAIL
Attributing support for the afghan war or war in general to me where I have made no such comment: FAIL
Bringing up iraq as though it had anything to do with this discussion: FAIL
Furthermore, attributing some feeling about the success/or non-succeess of Iraq to me when I have made no such remark: FAIL
you’re really #winning this one, clime acts… and speaking of your nick, I suspect you are that pedophile troll Kola Noscopy. The juvenile (wannabe clever) nick suggests as much.
samara morgan
@Clime Acts: i dont think wilfred’s story is true.
@wilfred:
wallah. you’re muslim?
but you write G-d like the jews.
my apologies “brother”.
;)
amused
Well, at least we know why willie’s so pissed about Afghanistan; it’s making it harder for him to buy sex slaves.
gaz
@amused: heh
Egg Berry
@Riilism:
Since they don’t keep archives of /b/, you might be right.
WeeBey
Holy fuck.
When I said this dude was mentally ill, I had no idea.
Holy fuck.
samara morgan
@wilfred:
i confess, i dont have the kind of imagination that it takes to believe your story.
;)
xiirha fi Giirha (better luck next time)
Riilism
@Clime Acts: For all I know, wilfred is 14 yr old boy from Sheboygan, WI, who’s mother just walked into his bedroom and asked him what the hell he’s doing playing on the ‘puter when she specifically asked him to clean his room…
wilfred
“it’s making it harder for him to buy sex slaves.”
You reckon that’s how it is? Well, you’re wrong. You see, if it was only that, I could fuck all the bengali and filipino whores I wanted, and I’d be ok. And I did that, for a while at least.
But a Muslim wife is different, in the sense that if I couldn’t please her, or give her a baby, then she would be in her right to run me, to leave me, to divorce me.
For 7 large, that’s the play to me – I’ll take the play.
Maybe I’m being cocky, oi.
gaz
@wilfred:
I’m not sure what’s more pathetic. The fact that you are proud of this, or the fact that you are almost certainly lying.
WeeBey
@gaz:
What’s scary is, he’s more fucked up in the head if he’s lying… And he’s certainly lying.
samara morgan
@Clime Acts: and all the jewish folk i know also write G-d for god.
i say Allah because im a muslim.
i think this all a huge fantasy on wilfreds part.
or perhaps he hasnt told Iman Sulieman’s brothers and father about his jewish heritage yet.
i bet the bride price will go waaaaaaaaaaaaaay up.
;)
gaz
@WeeBey: A troll’s gotta troll, right?
wilfred
@ Samara:
You are not part of my story – lakum deenakum waliya deen.
I’m 4 years with these brothers and sisters. Come to me if you want, but judge me and question me at your risk.
In the meantime, I piss on kafirun.
dogwood
You know, I actually think it’s fine that Wilfred has found a place he loves and a culture he can embrace. I also understand that the world is complex, messy, horrible and wonderful all at the same time. Wilfred may have learned a lot about Mideast culture by living in Oman, but it hasn’t taught him much about the world in general. You see Wilfred lives in a world that we can’t possibly understand because we think it’s all about right and wrong, and we pass judgement on people and culture without deep understanding of it’s complexity. However, according to Wilfred, Barack Obama doesn’t live in a complex world. The President lives and works in a world where all the choices are easy and you either stop the war now or you enjoy killing Muslim children. This is why calling him a “child” is not far from the mark,
samara morgan
@wilfred: like i said, all the jewish folk i know write G-d for god. Muslims write Allah.
i think this is a big fucking fantasy.
WeeBey
@gaz:
Shark’s gotta swim, you feel me?
Catsy
Shit, at this point I’m just watching the burgeoning war between wilfred and samara with the pie filter off and rooting for injuries.
Mark S.
I’m waiting for a goateed DougJ to come escort me to the Agony Booth.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
Nice. I think Santorum has been saying much the same on the US campaign troll. You rare and delicate flower you.
samara morgan
@wilfred: no muslim would speak of his betrothed like that, with such disrespect, boasting.
you are the kafir.
gaz
@WeeBey: maybe if I wasn’t married =)
heh.
BTW – love the nick. The wire sits in my untouchable media archive – the one I’ll continually watch til I’m 80 and never discard it to make room for new material. It’s eternal. Probably the best fucking show to ever grace the cultural wasteland that is american television. And watchable at least 12 times. heh.
Riilism
@dogwood:
What’s the over/under that that culture includes cheetos, mountain dew, and WoW?…..
samara morgan
@Catsy: whatch out you dont get a collateral fragging, hag.
@wilfred: so why do you say G-d for god? were you once a jew?
WeeBey
@gaz:
Facts.
Poor Wee Bey. Great character, though. Nice cameo near the end with Bunny Colvin.
Pennsy and Gold.
shortstop
Oh, settle down, everyone. Haven’t you ever seen someone with a severe anger problem and no self-awareness lay an increasingly drunken bragging rant down on the intertubes?
samara morgan
for the non arabic speakers here,
in context wilfred is pretending that gives him license to buy multiple wives.
i think his tafsir is FAIL.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@dogwood:
Prounoun trouble. Which “him” are you talking about?
wilfred
@ Samara:
Well, I’m calling you out. Long before you ever showed up, I spoke for the Muslims and the Palestinians. You can ask Cole and Tim F if I’m not telling the truth on this.
I don’t give a fuck what people think about me here. I’m only interested in Muslims. But I don’t let anyone call me a fucking liar. You write to Cole and ask him where I am – ask hin my IPO. Or you can write to Tim F and ask him about my project.
I think that you need to shut the fuck up and learn some fucking manners when you speak to me. Don’t prattle your shit to me – I live this fucking life every day.
shortstop
@Riilism: Not so much. Is not now and has never been a member of the American play group. Crisps and lemon squash, prior to the alcoholism, sure.
gaz
@WeeBey: most characters in that show were just fucking great. Snoop/Felicia(?) an amazing and serendipitous casting choice. Omar for being the sexiest mofo in the whole damned show – and gay – just you know – because they could.. =) and etc and etc… anyway yeah.. w00t.
The whole show was just a towering saga – I watched Treme with some disappointment – not that I didn’t like it – but the Wire was an impossible act to follow. =)
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@shortstop:
wilfred has been providing entertainment on this blog for a number of years. He’s done more spittle flecked GBCW’s than I have, and that is saying some. Actually, he’s mellowed a bit over the years, and is but a shadow of his former outraged self. And absolutely my favorite Muslim Marxist, all time on BJ.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
I’d like to see both the exit polling and the paper trail.
Catsy
@samara morgan:
This is a fascinating statement. I think I’m supposed to feel intimidated in some unspecified way, or insulted at being called a “hag”–especially since this is a slur generally directed at innies rather than outies like me. Your mileage may vary with that one.
Pray tell what is a “collateral fragging”? It seems to be a combination of “collateral damage” and “fragging”, the former of which is a euphemism referring to unintended harm caused to someone other than your intended target, while the second of which is a term for the intentional homicide of a fellow soldier. These seem to be rather mutually exclusive actions, and in any event I can’t see how they bear even metaphorically to an internet discussion where your ability to do me harm hinges on your ability to assail my credibility or good reputation. Since I have neither and you have even less, I’m at a loss to explain why I should be concerned.
I am not sure this scans in quite the way you think it does.
samara morgan
@wilfred: im just very curious about why you write G-d for god. the only people i know that do that are jews.
WeeBey
@gaz:
Yeah, the comparisons for that were… Well, as unfair as comparing Deadwood and John from Cincinnati. But for different reasons.
I never got into Treme, but was glad someone tried it.
arguingwithsignposts
Shades of Michael Gass. Will you fax Cole your credenza?
WeeBey
@Catsy:
Word salad. Toss it with a light vinaigrette.
Perhaps you can sprinkle some of Wilifred’s tasty nuggets of nothingness on top.
samara morgan
@Catsy: i dont need to “assail” your cred or your rep, hag.
i just deconstruct your logic fails.
gaz
@Catsy:
LOL.
You know who also asked… (wait, oops)
shortstop
@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero): Well, he’ll pass out soon and we can all get on with enjoying the deaths of Muslim children and wishing it were legal here to buy wives on which to inflict storming rages and perpetual whiskey dick.
Riilism
@shortstop: For realseys? Eeeeesssshhhhh……
gaz
@samara morgan: While I’m basically rooting for you in this intellectual cripple-fight (ed: between you and wilfred), I don’t think you should put “logic fail” into play, in your case. It smacks of an extreme lack of self-awareness on your part.
Just sayin’
dogwood
@Riilism: @Riilism:
I think the odds are overwhelming. But If he is for real, he only has to hold on for a while longer and we will leave Afghanistan. Then peace, prosperity and human dignity will be restored to his world.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@samara morgan:
FYI: Here in Churchoneverycornerville, I know plenty of Christians who do the same. FWIW.
samara morgan
@Catsy: oh yeah, now im an anti-semite because i said jooo.
its either that or racist, right Catsy?
i think Anne Lauries “shariah ridden brown babies ” is a WHOLE lot more racist than anything i’ve evah said here.
;)
arguingwithsignposts
@samara morgan: Do you just have this shit on macros?
samara morgan
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): relly? i have never seen it in xians.
its part of the sacred word tradition of judaism. the orthodox feel about the sacred name the same way muslims feel about the Quran, it must be destroyed with protocol, and there are rules for for writing it.
i suppose wilfred might be xian, but that is a borrowed tradition for xians. its rare in universities i guess because there arent many christians where i go to school.
see The Golden Bough
gaz
@samara morgan: Pretty sure you’re an anti-semite based on the entirety of your post history here at BJ, not because you said “jooo”
That nasty habit of yours where you always seem to casually equate anyone with jewish ethnicity (or *gasp* jewish faith) as a zionist.
That kind of stuff.
samara morgan
@arguingwithsignposts: lol, i have never encountered a wilfred before. i guess i should write a macro for him.
i do have macros for some relly epic stupid stuff, like your reference to “Our EDK”.
that is one of my favorites.
;)
dogwood
Give it a rest, Samara. Wilfred’s gone.
Catsy
@wilfred:
You don’t get a choice in the matter, kiddo. I name you liar: you care quite a lot about what people think of you here, or you wouldn’t be expending so much energy thumping your chest about what a big man you are, how much the locals love you, and how you know more about the middle east than any of us silly homelanders. You’re quite the defensive little boy.
So on that point, you are either lying through your fucking teeth or even less self-aware than you seem. Neither option is flattering.
As far as whether or not you’re telling the truth about the rest, such as where you live or how awesome it is to be a man like you there–I really have no way of knowing. Nor do I really care, to be honest–except to note that I actually hope you’re spinning a gigantic web of internet bullshit, because that reflects far better on you than if your juvenile power fantasy is actually a truthful description of your life.
I am far more interested in what your counter tops are like.
Don’t forget to remind her to cover herself and know her place.
Catsy
@samara morgan:
No, you just have a devastating lack of awareness about how you actually sound.
wilfred
@Samara:
I follow the way I was taught, the right path of Prophet Mohammed and his companions and the people of the Way. I answer to no one in this life or the next but seek my brothers and sisters in the right Path. With them I make common cause wherever I find them. And All-h knows best.
samara morgan
@gaz: /yawn, more reading fail.
ive been pretty clear about that.
i have many jewish friends, and some of them are even zionists….i just hate Israelis.
on this blog, if i say IQ you hear racist.
if i say Israel, you hear anti-semite. im used to that by now.
speaking of….dig this coolio new Beinart site.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@samara morgan:
Yeah. it’s a tradition derived from Judaism, practiced by a lot of pious Christians. Shouldn’t surprise ya.
TTFN. Salt mines and all that…
Clime Acts
@WeeBey:
So is it your position that all people who take part in such traditions all over the world are mentally ill?
samara morgan
@wilfred: so why did you write G-d before i called you on it?
And why did you change it to All-h? ive NEVER seen that.
Clime Acts
@Riilism:
well sure, but that’s true for all of us…
gaz
@samara morgan: Oh please.
Anyone with even a passing familiarity of your rants on this blog realizes that you see zionist conspiracy in your alphabits every morning.
Either that or you have an extremely hard time communicating.
And I suspect you are lying about your “friends”. Based on the your aspergers and anti-social tendencies, I seriously doubt you have any, outside your social worker.
samara morgan
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): where are you? south?
i think it might be more prevelant there. i just have only seen
jewsjewish folk using it here in colorado.Frankensteinbeck
@samara morgan:
MC, dear, YOUR racism is showing. Islam is not a single, unified culture where everyone does the same thing. Neither is Judaism. ‘G-d’ is a Jewish tradition in America, but non-Jews use it as well, even though they don’t have the same religious explanation. I think Wilfred is being an obsessive idiot – and is usually an obsessive idiot – but your desire to reduce all people and situations to two dimensionality based on a very limited ethnicity chart is not going to refute anything.
As for everyone calling her an anti-Semite, I remind you that it’s not that simple. EVERYTHING is about race to MC, so being anti-Semitic is a coincidence in MC’s huge cross chart of bigotries.
Clime Acts
@Catsy:
You don’t have a pie filter, you poor sweet thing. But for some sad reason it is important to you that others here THINK you have one.
samara morgan
@gaz: okfine, link or gtfo.
give a link where i hate on zionists.
you cant find one.
i dont despise all zionists, but i do hate Israelis.
my good friend David Boxenhorn just went mad when Obama got elected. He is an Israeli and we dont speak anymore.
gaz
@Frankensteinbeck: FTR, I realize the antisemetism is a sub-facet of the overarching racism. I was just not putting too fine a point on it.
I’m well aware that samara is a bigot.
Frankensteinbeck
@gaz:
Fair enough.
4tehlulz
SO MANY PIES
I WANT THEM ALL
wilfred
@Samara:
Because of time, place and people and because I speak to people according to their level of understanding, following the way.
samara morgan
@Frankensteinbeck: /sigh
again, link where i say anything racist.
And im not racist unless christian and stupid are races now.
And judaism is not a race. Semite is a race.
Both genetic jews and genetic arabs are semites.
samara morgan
@gaz: i am a bigot.
also an elitist intellectual snob.
;)
samara morgan
@wilfred: well i think you are drunk.
that is hardly islamic, unless you are a sufi.
and i doubt that because your tasawuf sukkz.
gaz
@samara morgan: You are so original! Like bigotry and illusory superiority have never intersected before you came along.
Thanks for conceding the argument and saving me the trouble of digging through the archives just to point out something that is already obvious to everyone here, including – it seems – you.
wilfred
@Samara:
Drunk I am. But that’s not the point. Like attracts like, or not.
The way is long and hard, and the only ones who can talk about it is them that’s on it.
Pissed I am, and royally, But seeker nonetheless.
samara morgan
@gaz: i am a bigot, but you can dig through the archives forever and never find a racist thing i have said.
;)
however, Anne Laurie did say “shariah-ridden brown babies” . is that a racist statement?
and do you want the the link?
A Humble Lurker
@Clime Acts:
Still waiting, babe. You promised!! If you’re not a man of your word, than how can anyone be expected to trust anything you say?
Also, this whole thread is why I don’t mind when people feed the trolls. Total. Fucking. Nuclear. Meltdown. Plus, I doubt anybody here’s going to take anything willy says seriously again. Which is good, because we’re going to need all that saved time re-electing Obama.
gaz
@wilfred:
Actually, I think that IS in fact, the point.
And if nothing else it certainly helps to clarify what’s behind your inane babbling.
samara morgan
@wilfred: your tasawuf and adab still sukk donkey balls. if Iman Suileman exists she must be mortally ashamed of you.
Catsy
@Clime Acts:
I don’t know about mentally ill, but anyone with wilfred’s attitudes towards the commoditization of women is deeply fucked up. I don’t care whether it’s cultural or religious, or how many millions of people are just as fucked up as he is: it’s still fucked up.
You’re damn near giddy at the prospect of showing us for hypocrites by manufacturing a nonexistent contradiction between respect for multiculturalism and religious freedom on one hand, and contempt for harmful aspects of a culture or religion on the other.
I don’t give a fuck what you think. I think religions in general are toxic, malignant and medievalist. Sexism doesn’t get a free pass just because it’s justified under the veneer of being cultural or religious in nature.
So yeah, the millions of people around the world who think women are commodities to be bought and sold are pretty fucked in the head about that, regardless of what religious or cultural tradition they use to rationalize it. I make no apologies for saying so.
samara morgan
@A Humble Lurker: im going to write a short story about this for my writing class.
i think in the end wilfred is going to have to be honor-killed.
sowwy.
;)
gaz
@samara morgan: You know, I was tempted to dig through the archives, but then you made this ham-fisted and stupid assertion that somehow bigotry is morally okay, but race-based bigotry is not.
I think I’ll just let that sentiment stand by itself.
wilfred
@ Samara:
Then fuck off then, you’re not one us. You should write about her, cause you could never live it. Not the passion, or the passion, or the shaking of the fucking flesh, or the simple pleasure of love and life.
Here, you want the fucking details of the sweet summer sweat and the drummers and the fullness of life?
I’ll take it.
samara morgan
@Catsy: its fine if you say that, as long as you acknowledge you are POWERLESS to change other peoples cultures.
and its disrespectful and stupid to try.
Thus, Iraq and A-stan.
samara morgan
@gaz: what is race-based bigotry? racism?
/yawn
you cant dooooo eet.
many have tried.
gaz
@samara morgan: yes. race-based-bigotry is also known as RACISM.
I spelled it out because I knew you’d have trouble making the connection on your own.
And your incoherent reply just substantiates my initial decision to do so.
samara morgan
@wilfred:
wallah, great material.
keep it comin’.
but you cant be a muslim. this is violating her privacy.
pre-marital sex?
relly?
Smiling Mortician
Somebody check the gauges. It’s about to blow.
wilfred
Adab is not just the balls/c#nt clutching angst of the sexually repressed, nor the poetry of the sexually repressed.
For fuck’s sake it’s about living and loving and fucking and fucking again. And every time I look at this dark skinned Bedu girl she knows exactly what I’m thinking I know what’s she’s thinking and what’s wrong with that?
What’s wrong with that?
samara morgan
@gaz: but im not a racist. i dont base my bigotry on race.
like i always say, im not a racist unless christian and stupid are races now.
;)
Catsy
@samara morgan:
But we are not. None of us are. I don’t mean by force, I mean by the simple act of living by example. Even today you can see the incremental effects of exposure to the outside world on otherwise closed cultures.
How about finding a creative place to shove your notion of what’s “disrespectful”. Respect is a two-way street, and it is earned, not demanded. And there is nothing about the dehumanizing plight of women in many parts of the world that merits respect simply because their contempt for human rights is cultural or religious in nature.
gaz
@samara morgan: that doesn’t make you any less morally reprehensible.
That’s the part I think you are missing.
samara morgan
@wilfred:
wallah…that is not what i was taught of adab…
for once i have no words.
gaz
@samara morgan:
I’ll have to remember wilfred’s quote. Apparently it *is* in fact possible to get you to shut your dumb pie-hole.
cool.
Catsy
@wilfred:
You mean every time you look at her, she knows you’re swelling with pride at how you could buy her as a second or third wife for what it costs to have your office cleaned? She knows you’re drunkenly parading her name (whether or not that’s her real one) around the Internet in order to score points with a bunch of blog commenters whose esteem you claim not to care about?
Yeah, there’s plenty wrong with that, little boy.
Omnes Omnibus
Epic. I have been busy at work all day, but I have been monitoring this on and off. Just fucking epic.
Catsy
@samara morgan:
If only that were true.
gaz
@Catsy: You are setting this thread alight.
cheers
samara morgan
@Catsy:
but it isn contempt, in the context of their culture.
it is only contemptuous thru the lens of YOUR culture.
i changed that.
wilfred
Oh, for G-d’s sake. I’m going to give this little girl her life and her freedom and at least a little bit of 22k gold as dowry.
I will take her to the suq on Thursday night and buy her dowry. I will tell her father and her brothers that that gold is hers forever, but that I’m the man in my house, and they will accept and respect that. And if G-d wills, I’ll give her a belly, or not, and depending on one or the other, we’ll split up, and if we do, she’ll keep her dowry.
Something wrong with that? Maybe I’ll marry her a sister if we divorce. And?
That’s how things are done. I can live with it.
samara morgan
@wilfred: how old are you wilfred?
Catsy
@gaz: There are some days when it just doesn’t pay to click that link and discover that someone is WOTI.
gaz
and wilfred plays the creepy sex-tourist/sugar-daddy card.
wow. just. wow.
alcohol is a helluva a drug.
gaz
@Catsy: heheh. I loves me some xkcd.
=)
wilfred
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know Arabs are sexual people. They live like men and women and they love and they make children.
Of course, in Islam, abortion in the first trimester is ok. But in the meantime, we live and fuck and fuck and make love and life.
But we can’t about it. Honest to G-d, I got a pretty good life.
samara morgan
@gaz: lolwut? im bigoted against christians and stupid people.
that isnt amoral…its just common sense.
;)
The Sheriff's A Ni-
Posting again in an epic thread. Oh wow.
gaz
Shorter wilfred: So glad I moved over here where I can buy a spouse. Did wonders for my relationships/sex-life. All of you in the USA are suckers because it’s illegal to pay for sex over there HAHAHAHA.
wilfred: Most of us take pride in the fact that we can land our relationships on personal merit, equality, love, and *real* consent, not just money, tradition, and subjugation of one of the genders.
in short, keep digging.
wilfred
What difference does it make how old I am? If I can’t please my wife, or give her a child, she can turn me loose. And I can do the same to her.
Sexuality between Muslims is no big deal. Hell, divorce takes a day. There’s a problem here? If one of my wives doesn’t please me, I turn her loose. If I can’t please her, she turns me loose, and brings me shame.
There’s a problem here?
Catsy
@wilfred:
You can dress it up in whatever poetic language you like, but at the end of the day what you are saying is:
– This woman has no life or freedom until a man marries her
– You are exchanging goods of value for the right to marry her
This does not communicate what you seem to think it does.
Translation: if she gives me a child, she’s mine; if she doesn’t, I’ll trade her in and she gets a little gold for her trouble.
I stand corrected: if she doesn’t give me a child, maybe I’ll trade her in for one of her sisters.
Tragically so, and in far too many parts of the world. That doesn’t make it any less barbaric.
Or you any less of a barbarian.
This is, perhaps, unfair to barbarians.
The person holding the whip hand usually can.
gaz
“common sense” bigotry is the hallmark of small minds. Which is probably why you hate yourself so much.
WeeBey
@Omnes Omnibus:
Concur.
wilfred
@ Gaz:
Yeah, perfect world, etc. But here, if my cock isn’t good/big/thick/hard enough, well…I’m out, I’ll reserve my comments about women, but…
That’s how it is here. I wish I could put it differently but that is the way it is. And it costs a bunch a money for a man to find out if he measures up, so to speak.
WeeBey
It’s nice that wilfred has progressed through his angry drunk stage to his horny drunk state.
I say he’s a frat boy stateside. And a virgin.
wilfred
@ Catsy:
That’s ok. NObody is judging you – then don’t judge nobody else, Is that so fucking difficult?
I don’t get the problem here.
gaz
@wilfred: which is why the place works for you.
Here you’d just be a poor plebe with a small coq – who couldn’t get laid if you paid for it.
That was pretty much my point. I’m glad you finally get it.
wilfred
Well, it’s even better. Because if I don’t a woman, all I have to do is say – I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you. That’s it – no lawyers, nothing, If I want the children, they’re mine.
That’s how it is. It doesn’t matter what I think, that’s it. Pretty fucked up, huh?
But that is how it fucking is. Sorry.
wilfred
Cock I’m ok. I got one that hangs, not that much, but it hangs. I’ll take a shot for 5-8 grand.
I’m being honest. 20 grand? Well, you know, Qatari princess, I can’t say, but…
gaz
@wilfred: FTR, I’m not offended that “that’s how it is”. If I find anything offensive about this whole mess, it’s the fact that you revel in it, nay – are proud of it.
It’s a new height of pathetic. You’ve jumped the shark now – time to change your nick.
WeeBey
And now it’s bragging on its cock.
Drive home safely, folks.
Tip your waitress. In gold.
Catsy
@samara morgan:
You do not seem to grok the concept of “rights”.
There are things which are a matter of mere cultural or religious differences. An aversion to mixing meat and dairy, say. Regarding directness as rude and indirectness as polite. Protocol for greeting someone new. Social acceptance of nudity. None of these really get into the realm of basic human rights.
But not everything is subjective in this way. Some things are universal and ought to be recognized as such. And treating women as the property of their male head of household the way they are treated in many parts of the world is a gross offense to their rights as human beings.
A culture does not get a free pass for sexism, bigotry or human rights violations just because those things are cultural in origin.
Brachiator
@wilfred:
Actually, I can, but that’s another story for another day.
Not interested in your pity.
Interesting that you have hijacked the thread from being about Obama to all about you. In another place and time, some of what you reveal about yourself and your way of looking at the world might make for interesting conversation. But not here. Not now.
Nonsense. Unfortunate if you really think this way and are not just gassing off.
With that, if you want to dig a deeper hole for yourself, I’ll let others indulge you. But I have had more than enough.
Lawnguylander
Wow! What a fantastic video! Thanks for posting it, mistermix! I had a great day at work, now I see this video and I’m even happier. Nearly five more years of Obama, you guys! At least 5!
samara morgan
@Catsy:
again, you are defining sexism, bigotry, and human rights through the lens of YOUR culture.
you cant help it.
who says this is true in islamic culture? wilfred? pam geller?
again, you know nothing of al-Islam except the cartoon version you have been spoonfed.
interestingly its the same version that wilfred has.
gaz
@Lawnguylander: You can unscrew a lightbulb, but you can’t unscrew this thread. =)
Thanks for trying in any case.
This became the “Wilfred & Samara Show” at least 200 posts ago though, so you are a little late =)
Just sayin’
Egg Berry
Wow. Just wow.
samara morgan
@gaz: nah…….its the gaz and catsy show.
racist!
antisemite!
bigot!
racist!
wilfred
What’s so complicated here? The right for an Arab woman to
think and talk about sexuality?
I don’t give a fuck about ‘rights’. Sexuality is ok. If a man cna’t please a womam sexually, she can ask for a
divorce. A man better think about that before he proposes a bride price in this culture.
Is this such a radical idea?
Marc
@gaz:
This thread belongs in the dictionary under “train wreck.”
Ye Gods. At least one person is going to wake up tomorrow morning wondering what they wrote and where their pants are…
gaz
@samara morgan: You’re too modest. The whole reason this thread is approaching 500 posts is that we’ve got the one camp that is egging on the ‘tards, and the lurkers who are dropping by to see the resulting smearing of feces. Basically, if it weren’t for you and wilfred this thread would have been dead a long time ago, but people can’t resist to hear what damned fool thing you two will say next.
And the fact that you are fighting with each other? That’s just icing. South Park factor (see Cripple fight).
You are entertaining. Stupid, probably crazy, but so entertaining in your ridiculous crazy bullshit that most of us could only bask in the shadow of your amazing trollery. It’s really quite something to behold.
Although you are gonna have to take it up a notch if you want to compete with wilfred – his babbling is absolutely priceless… Leaving you once again as the backup troll (but no worries – you’re good, solid backup!)
gaz
@Marc: I think wilfred is already there…
just sayin.
samara morgan
@gaz: isnt “cripple fight” something a bigot might say?
gaz
@samara morgan: LOL. Yeah – referencing a south park episode by name definitely makes me a bigot. sure thing.
Catsy
@samara morgan:
This kind of absolute subjectivism is very tiresome. Words have meanings, and not everything is subjective just because some other culture or religion has a different opinion about it.
Oh give me a fucking break, you disingenuous little turd burglar.
Are you seriously trying to argue that treating women as the property of their husbands/fathers is not a very widespread practice within the ME in general and many (not all, but many) Islamic cultures in specific? That women in the middle east, in general, do not in fact have vastly restricted rights and privileges compared with men?
What a fucking joke.
Islam and the middle east aren’t some kind of homogeneous evil the way bigots like Geller would have you believe, but anyone trying to pretend that women don’t get the shit end of the stick in that part of the world is either ruthlessly dishonest or hopelessly ignorant.
gaz
@Catsy: I think I’d have to add that some of the worst practices in islamic regions of the middle east do not have their roots in islam per se, but in various tribal customs that were later massaged into their interpretation of islamic theology.
Also we’d have to overlook various un-sundry and remarkably sexist passages of the other Abrahamic religions.
I don’t have a problem with Islam, Christianity, or Judaism. I do however, have innumerable problems with the way many people choose to observe them.
I just thought I’d throw that out there – not so much to counter as to augment what you are saying.
Lawnguylander
Also, Clime Acts outed himself as a pedophile a while ago, El Tiburon revealed himself as either a child abuser or someone who fantasizes about abusing children yesterday and Wilfred likes to pretend that he’s a rich beloved westerner living amongst the “wogs” and purchasing their women for his sexual pleasure. These are the kinds of creeps that make wingnuts look like the principled opposition to Obama. It must be his inherent goodness that causes the wicked to hate him so.
@gaz Sheeeeeeeeeit. See above I ain’t trying to fix nothing. I’m just cutting loose and having fun.
gaz
@Lawnguylander: heh. yeah – i was playin’ …just a friendly ribbing / warm up for what’s in store here =P. This is a full-contact thread.
but it’s all in good fun.
and also, too: Pretty sure Clime Acts is Kola Noscopy.
samara morgan
@gaz: wallah…some excuse……i suppose you think Trey and Matt are politically correct?
they are bigotted against christians too.
;)
samara morgan
@Catsy: women get the shit end in all parts of the world. here too.
i think you should just wait to be asked before swooping in to turn whole countries into warzones to build girls schools. its more respectful.
gaz
and I should give a fuck?
Nobody here is in any danger of taking Trey Parker or Matt Stone seriously, except maybe you.
And if I cared about political correctness would I call you a morally deficient, craven little islamowhore?
probably not.
dogwood
@Lawnguylander:
You’ve pretty much nailed this thread. I actually thought Wilfred left a long time ago to commence negotiations on his bride-price, but he reappeared to discuss his sexual prowess. I don’t know how Wilfred feels about viagra or if the women purchases are “sluts” who use birth control, but from what I can gather, Rush Limbaugh would be in hog heaven in Oman.
dogwood
@gaz:
Kola Noscopy is now spinning conspiracy theories in another thread.
gaz
@dogwood: Probably because I outed his sock puppet on this thread earlier, I’d wager.
Now he needs his cred back, apparently (like he had any to begin with)
When I see two posts in two threads with two nicks and identical timestamps I’ll re-evaluate my position, but so far, the circumstantial evidence is compelling enough for me.
After all, this is BJ, and it would be irresponsible *not* to speculate =)
cheers
Emma
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah. I participated for a while, but then fell back in awe at the crazy and just watched.
samara morgan
@gaz: islamowhore? now whos the bigot.
;)
samara morgan
@gaz: again, Anne Laurie did say “shariah-ridden brown babies” . is that a racist statement?
since you are an expert?
samara morgan
/sigh
that always happens. they lose their temper and the inner JAFI comes out.
;)
chopper
@wilfred:
you certainly sound like a true progressive. living the dream every day.
gaz
awww samara YOU MAD
samara morgan
@gaz: nope. just vindicated.
“islamowhore” “shariah-ridden brown babies”
there is a little
eichmannJAFI in all of you.SiubhanDuinne
Well, I thought it was a nice video.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@samara morgan:
West Michigan. Grand Rapids.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@samara morgan:
No, human is a race. The Semites were a tribe of some of those. The larger language group to which they belong, which derives its name from that tribe (because the name was given by Europeans who were more familiar with the Jews who descended from that tribe than, say, the Ethiopians who also speak a language from the same group) is Semitic.
samara morgan
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): homo sapiens sapiens is a species, not a race.