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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Racial Justice / Kiss My Black Ass / ‘New’ Witness Claims Trayvon Martin Attacked Zimmerman

‘New’ Witness Claims Trayvon Martin Attacked Zimmerman

by Imani Gandy (ABL)|  March 24, 201210:59 pm| 79 Comments

This post is in: Kiss My Black Ass, Post-racial America

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*eyeroll*

Apparently, now there’s a new witness who claims that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman:

The witness told FOX 35 in Orlando that he saw evidence of a fight between Martin and Zimmerman, which could lend credence to the gunman’s claim that he was acting in self-defence.

‘The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: “Help, help… and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,’ he said.

Zimmerman was wearing a red sweater; Martin was in a grey hoodie.

He added: ‘When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.’

This account is drastically different from the portrait painted of Martin by his friends and acquaintances.

Even assuming this new witness isn’t full of crap (and that’s a generous assumption), this new revelation changes nothing. Jesse Singal at Washington Monthly breaks it down:

The fact that this anonymous witness thinks Martin was beating up Zimmerman is worthless once you factor in the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, especially in moments of chaos and physiological arousal. The human brain simply isn’t well-built to look out at a scene like the one John witnessed and quickly determine who is beating up who or the nature of the altercation.

So the evidence provided by John points to only one certain fact (and this is buttressed by the cops, who did say that Zimmerman had a broken nose when they got to him): there was a tussle between Zimmerman and Martin. On its own that tells us very little.

The 911 call indicates that Zimmerman decided well before the shooting that he thought Martin was suspicious, and had begun to follow him (against the advice of the 911 dispatcher). So we have a sequence like this:

1) Zimmerman calls 911 to report the “suspicious” Martin.
2) Zimmerman begins to pursue Martin.
3) ???
4) Zimmerman and Martin get in a fight.
5) Zimmerman shoots Martin.

Everything is speculation at this point, of course. But given what we know about Zimmerman’s penchant for heightened vigilance (46 emergency calls in the last six years) and the consensus view that Martin was a completely sweet, nonconfrontational kid (yes, he was suspended from school, but for tardiness), I just don’t see how this changes anything. As of now, there’s no reason to think Martin did anything that a reasonable person would consider likely to provoke getting shot.

I agree with Singal’s analysis. I would, however, add a coda to his statement — there’s no reason to think Martin did anything that a reasonable person would consider likely to provoke getting shot… aside from being black.

If Trayvon were a white kid walking around a gated neighborhood in a hoodie, he would be alive. Period.

POSTSCRIPT: Eric Boehlert of Media Matters pointed out that there is no byline for the Daily Mail article. It is written by “Daily Mail Reporter.” Odd, no?

utterly bogus UK Mail story about “new” Trayvon Martin witness was written by “reporter”; no byline; bit.ly/GMFskL #figures

— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) March 25, 2012

why is @tobyharnden pushing bogus story about “new” Trayvon Martin witness at UK Mail? And why has Mail headline been whitewashed?

— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) March 25, 2012

 

hey @tobyharnden: UK Mail’s “new” Trayvon Martin witness gave those quotes to FL media in **Feb.** when will Mail post correction?

— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) March 25, 2012


[via Washington Monthly]

[cross-posted at ABLC]
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Reader Interactions

79Comments

  1. 1.

    Jeffraham Prestonian

    March 24, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    Oooh! Look at the new Boon Jews! WOWSERS.
    .

  2. 2.

    Yutsano

    March 24, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    So was the Mail hacked or is this just hackery? Irresponsible to not speculate, it would be.

  3. 3.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    March 24, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    FLASH: “new witness reports that Zimmerman was being beaten by more THREE assailants! Second assailant identified by eyewitness as Elvis, who actually punched Zimmerman in the nose, while Zimmerman was being held by Bigfoot. When Zimmerman reached for his gun, Elvis and Bigfoot ran for cover and escaped.

    Police had no comment as to why Zimmerman left Elvis and Bigfoot out of his account of the shooting.”

  4. 4.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    March 24, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    The fact that Zimmerman kept pursuing Martin after the 911 operator said not to ends the entire thing right there. He went looking for a reason to shoot. Then throw in comments from him about how “they always get away” and you know what he wanted to do: Get his thrills off of using his gun and making an example of Martin. That would also be called terrorism.

  5. 5.

    Lojasmo

    March 24, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Operator said “we don’t need you to”.

  6. 6.

    amk

    March 24, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    46 emergency calls in the last six years

    wasn’t it more like 46 calls in the last six months ?

  7. 7.

    jwb

    March 24, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    @efgoldman: The author is listed on the main page (not the post page) right next to the date.

  8. 8.

    Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)

    March 24, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    People will turn themselves inside out looking for a way to justify it when a black kid gets shot. Oh, he must have “done something”. Well, he must have been a bad kid. Come on, we all know that so many blacks are in gangs that it only makes sense to assume they’re up to something…

    And then they look for excuses to show why the killer wasn’t to blame. It’s the same with the Henry Louis Gates thing. People are still yammering on and on and on about how Gates was “mouthing off” to the police dude. I guess it means nothing that Gates was inside his own fucking house at the time; oh, no, it was only meet and right that the plucky policeman should haul that motherfucker uppity Gates off to jail.

    If Zimmerman had been a sheet-wearing kkk guy and Martin had been pulling drowning puppies out of a creek at the time, a disheartening number of Americans would find a way to make it Martin’s fault. I don’t know; maybe it’s a way to make themselves believe that racism isn’t still a weeping sore in the U.S.:

    If it really was Martin’s fault, if Zimmerman really was within his rights, then we can all breathe a little more easily, am I right? If it was all Martin’s fault, then racism can’t have had anything to do with it, right? And if racism had nothing to do with this little episode, then we can all go back to believing that our ugly legacy of racism–which let’s be honest, wasn’t all that bad; lots of slaves loved their owners and fought for the confederacy!–is all behind us, true? And if it’s all behind us, then I don’t have to care about it or about black Americans. And we all win!–well, maybe not black Americans, but, hey, racism’s all behind us, now! If they can’t get their act together, then that’s their fault and I don’t have to worry my pretty little head about them; I can turn my back on them all and still be an upstanding, righteous Christian dude! And we all win!–well, maybe not black Americans, but, hey… [repeat ad infinitum]

  9. 9.

    Jay in Oregon

    March 24, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    @efgoldman:
    The author is credited on the front page, but not on the individual article page. Still needs work, I guess.

  10. 10.

    Mark S.

    March 24, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    By Balloon Juice Reporter

  11. 11.

    Standing Ground

    March 24, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    It sounds like Trayvon was “standing his ground.”

    I guess that defense only works for white folks.

  12. 12.

    jnc

    March 24, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    A”new” witness?

    Do you mean someone who just stepped forward in the past couple of days or do you mean someone that YOU just learned about?

  13. 13.

    John M. Burt

    March 24, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    When the “new witness” fails to appear in court, it will of course be because the Obamunists killed him!

    Another name to add to the Obama Death List!

  14. 14.

    Rick Taylor

    March 24, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    This guy’s not a new witness. I saw a video of him being interviewed on the news which was recorded something like the day after the shooting, before it attained national prominence. It seemed to me he didn’t have an axe to grind, and was just testifying to what he’d seen which was a small part of what happened that night.

    That in no way shape or form justifies the police letting Zimmerman go and not carrying out a thorough investigation. This witnesses testimony should have been offered alongside that of everyone else involved, and presented before a jury to make a decision, based on all the evidence. It wasn’t up to the police to play jury.

  15. 15.

    MobiusKlein

    March 24, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    It’s trial in the media. Just ignore anything that is not sworn testimony.

  16. 16.

    ABL

    March 24, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    @jnc: i mean someone the Daily Mail is reporting as new who isn’t really new as it turns out. Then again, who knows, since the original story shows that it was updated on Friday, first written on 2/27.

    It’s weird to say the least. On the Twitters, the Daily Mail Exec Editor Toby Harnden is telling Eric Boehlert to get a life in response to Boehlert’s question as to whether Daily Mail would post a correction.

  17. 17.

    chrismealy

    March 24, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    Murdoch puts shit in the Daily Mail so Fox News can say, “Reports say …” It’s just like money laundering, but for bullshit.

  18. 18.

    Mister Papercut

    March 24, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    This is NOT a new witness, this is the very same account given to the Orlando FOX station the day following the killing (watch video at link and don’t go by the article’s edit date).

    There’s a reason they call it The Daily Fail, y’all.

  19. 19.

    Amir Khalid

    March 24, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    @Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):

    Even if racism had nothing to do with it, what remains is that Zimmerman chased down a kid who was minding his own business, and instigated a confrontation in which he shot and killed that kid. This is known for certain from the police dispatcher’s tape and from Trayvon’s girlfriend’s account of her phone conversation with him. What this “John” witness says cannot change that. Zimmerman is still a thrill-seeking murderer seeking to pass himself off as a good citizen.

  20. 20.

    mclaren

    March 24, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    The vicious Tayvon savagely attacked the heroic community watchman’s fist with his chin, threatening to damage the innocent defender Zimmerman’s knuckles. Then Travon went berserk and assaulted the butt of Zimmerman’s gun with his head, blah blah, woof woof.

    Why not just put a new crime on the books? WALKING WHILE BLACK? Felony sauntering with intent to step. Automatic death penalty.

  21. 21.

    handy

    March 24, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    @Snarki, child of Loki:

    I heard it was Elvis and JFK. They thought Zimmerman was a mummy.

  22. 22.

    Martin

    March 24, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    @Snarki, child of Loki: Yeah, I thought there was something squatchey about this whole thing.

  23. 23.

    ant

    March 24, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    here’s the thing.

    We know that Trayvon had a cell phone that night. we know this from the phone records of his girlfriend.

    We also know that Trayvon got taken to the morgue as a John Doe. His parents had to reach out to the police the next day in order for the police to figure out who it was that got shot.

    So that means that somethin funny went on regarding the cell phone.

    Either zimms did something with it, or the police did something with it, or the police completely ignored it as a way to figure out who Trayvon was.

    Which is it?

  24. 24.

    Corner Stone

    March 24, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    @Rick Taylor:

    This guy’s not a new witness.

    How dare you rebuke eyeroll?

  25. 25.

    Rick Taylor

    March 25, 2012 at 12:00 am

    We know that Trayvon had a cell phone that night. we know this from the phone records of his girlfriend.

    That part floored me. I was a witness once in an assault case. Both the victim and the accused lived in an apartment complex with its own phone exchange. I was responsible for the phone system, and I gave the records of phone calls to the police. That the police in this case wouldn’t immediately interview the person Trayvon was talking to in the minutes before his death is just incomprehensible to me.

  26. 26.

    David Koch

    March 25, 2012 at 12:03 am

    It’s 12:00 AM, do you know where your President is?

    DMZ

    http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dQB4fZcVpaEv/610x.jpg

  27. 27.

    Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)

    March 25, 2012 at 12:03 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    That’s true; but what galls me is that race did have a lot to do with it. It had everything to do with it. It had a lot to do with the killing to begin with, and it has a shitload to do with all the assholes falling all over each other to excuse Zimmerman. Anybody who doesn’t believe that this country puts a whole lot less worth on black people’s lives than on whites’ lives needs to get their heads out of their asses. But too many whites don’t want to talk about race. It makes them feel bad. (I don’t mean you; I’m speaking in general.) But, shit, we need to talk about this. This is why I love ABL’s stuff, and it’s why I wade in, every time something like this comes up. I don’t flatter myself to think I have much to say about it worth reading (not that that stops me from spouting off), but, shit, we need to talk about it all the same. And whites like me need to listen. Not just tune out and assume it’s just some angry black asshole who doesn’t know how lucky they are and who’ll never be happy with all we’ve done for them (we freed the fucking slaves, for crying out loud, and we even passed laws saying they’re just as good as wee real Americans are; what the fuck more do these people want from us, anyway?), so there’s no need to listen to the whole list of complaints all over again. If they’d just wise up and shut up and get their acts together, and [insert random historical immigrant group here] came here and they got treated a whole lot worse than slaves were, you can be sure of that, damned right, why, my great, great, whatever grandfather got turned down for jobs 17 times a day for 43 years just because he was a [insert applicable nationality here], but, he didn’t whine, he pulled himself up by his bootstraps, and why the hell can’t blacks just stop whining and go get jobs and blah blah blah and on and on…

    That’s what goes on in too many white heads. Too many of us just don’t care what black Americans deal with, since, hell, we know it can’t be that bad; we don’t see racism around every corner; why the hell are they so obsessed with it?

    I’m sorry to sound so bitter; but I am. It’s long past time to stop being spineless, soulless dicks who are more offended when our tender feelings get hurt a little than we are when some blameless 17 year old kid gets blown away for no reason. I swear, sometimes I hate my country. Jeremiah Wright was right about everything.

  28. 28.

    Collin

    March 25, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Those people in the Daily Mail should consider that famous line: “Anything you say can and will be held against you.” If that inference is good enough for cops, it’s good enough for us. Zimmerman said racist words, therefore we’ll continue to call him a racist, notwithstanding all the people named Reporter who argue otherwise. :D

  29. 29.

    Mister Papercut

    March 25, 2012 at 12:10 am

    @Rick Taylor:
    “That the police in this case wouldn’t immediately interview the person Trayvon was talking to in the minutes before his death is just incomprehensible to me.”

    Explanation smothered in bereaved-parents-blaming sauce:

    As for checking the boy’s phone records, Trayvon’s phone was locked and detectives were in the process of getting a subpoena for the records, Morgenstern said. He stressed that the department had pleaded for anyone with information to come forward, suggesting that the girl should have called investigators and the family should have turned the phone records over

    Oh.

  30. 30.

    Dr. Squid

    March 25, 2012 at 12:11 am

    Perjury. It’s not just for Scooter Libby anymore.

  31. 31.

    JDReign

    March 25, 2012 at 12:11 am

    @Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):

    Beautiful

  32. 32.

    Dr. Squid

    March 25, 2012 at 12:13 am

    @Mister Papercut: Locked cellphones never stopped the Fleet Street press before. Why are they snivelling now?

  33. 33.

    Jennifer

    March 25, 2012 at 12:13 am

    As I said previously, the only way you can get to a place in which this unverified “eyewitness testimony” in any way excuses Zimmerman is if you assume that he had a right to “self-defense” but Martin did not. At the point where, again assuming this is accurate, you have Martin beating on Zimmerman, you’ve got a case of an innocent person defending himself against an aggressor who was stalking him. No way does that get Zimmerman off the hook for shooting Martin – Zimmerman is the one who instigated the fight (again, if indeed it occured).

  34. 34.

    eemom

    March 25, 2012 at 12:14 am

    Thought experiment: if this had been a black man who shot a white kid, what circumstances might be different now? Discuss.

  35. 35.

    Polish the Guillotines

    March 25, 2012 at 12:16 am

    @Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.): Well said. Very well said.

  36. 36.

    eemom

    March 25, 2012 at 12:19 am

    @Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):

    I’m sorry to sound so bitter; but I am. It’s long past time to stop being spineless, soulless dicks who are more offended when our tender feelings get hurt a little than we are when some blameless 17 year old kid gets blown away for no reason. I swear, sometimes I hate my country. Jeremiah Wright was right about everything.

    You speak for me.

    I am a mother. Every time I see a picture of that child it breaks my heart.

    See also, Charlie Pierce’s excellent piece today.

  37. 37.

    David Koch

    March 25, 2012 at 12:21 am

    @eemom:

    Thought experiment: if this had been a black man who shot a white kid, what circumstances might be different now?

    Samuel L. Jackson would be getting yet another movie role: “I’m tired of these mutherfuckign hoodies on this murtherfuckign gated community!”

  38. 38.

    eemom

    March 25, 2012 at 12:21 am

    hmmm……linko no worked-o. Coooooole….

    http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/trayvon-martin-news-7552519

  39. 39.

    Commish

    March 25, 2012 at 12:21 am

    This article is really very curious.

    – The byline when I first read it was Beth Stebner, Associated Press….which as I type this is still how it’s credited at Memeorandum. But at some point the byline on the article itself changed to “Daily Mail Reporter.”

    – It is not “new,” as has been pointed out – the witness account is verbatim from an article printed on 2/27.

    – The headline is bogus, as has been pointed out – the witness never says he saw Martin attack anyone, only that he saw Martin apparently getting the upper hand, at least for a moment, in an altercation which he (the witness) did not see begin.

    – As soon as this story ran, a dozen or so right wing commentators and Fox affiliates who had been deafeningly silent on the whole matter burst forth promoting it – especially the misleading “attack” referenced in the headline – and the twisted conclusions they drew from it, as though from a starting gate.

  40. 40.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    March 25, 2012 at 12:21 am

    @David Koch:

    Been there, interesting place. Well, when they’re not shooting.

  41. 41.

    Some Loser

    March 25, 2012 at 12:23 am

    @Mister Papercut:

    I don’t understand. How was the girlfriend or parents supposed to know that the police needed the records, or that an investigation even began?

    Why is the police working so hard to cover this shit up? I understand Stand Your Ground law may complicate things, but a person died for Christ’s sake! Is it too much to ask that someone does this poor bastard some justice?

  42. 42.

    WyldPirate

    March 25, 2012 at 12:25 am

    @Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):

    Nice self-flagellation. Reminds me of a rhetorical version of the religious pilgrims in (Shia, I think) Iraq beating their own backs until bloody.

    Keep the feeling, dude. Maybe there are enough people awake that y’all can get a good PC-rage/hate Whitey fest cooking. Than all the good BJers—who the world knows are the only True Liberals (TM)—can retire feeling they stuck it to “da Man”.

  43. 43.

    JGabriel

    March 25, 2012 at 12:26 am

    Daily Mail:

    The witness told FOX 35 …

    So we have a story from British tabloid citing a Fox local report as its primary source?

    Can’t we file this under: Reports by Pinocchio with Sourcing from The Boy Who Cried Wolf?

    .

  44. 44.

    Gex

    March 25, 2012 at 12:26 am

    I look forward to hearing that 911 call. Because obviously his call would be out there with Zimmerman’s, right? We could check his phone records to verify he called, right?

    Not that any of that would matter since Zimmerman chased Martin with a loaded weapon and he has just as much right to self defense as Zimmerman. What make’s Martin’s claim to self defense greater is HE WAS BEING CHASED BY A GUY WITH A GUN WHO HAD BEEN INSTRUCTED BY POLICE NOT TO PURSUE!

    Christ. It doesn’t matter what this guy saw. Not one whit. Yet so many will seize this excuse to let their racist attitudes fly with what they consider to be plausible deniability.

  45. 45.

    Some Loser

    March 25, 2012 at 12:27 am

    @WyldPirate:
    Go die, you tiring piece of shit. Die slowly and painfully.

  46. 46.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    March 25, 2012 at 12:27 am

    @eemom: There’s a trial going on in Florida, where a black man shot a white man.

  47. 47.

    David Koch

    March 25, 2012 at 12:28 am

    @Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):

    This is why I love ABL’s stuff, and it’s why I wade in, every time something like this comes up.

    ABL is worst than Bush. If Livingston had shot some nuns for wearing a hoodie, she would be excusing him.

  48. 48.

    rikyrah

    March 25, 2012 at 12:29 am

    Thought experiment: if this had been a black man who shot a white kid, what circumstances might be different now? Discuss.

    It wouldn’t have mattered if the White kid was a skinhead recruit, the Black MAN would be IN JAIL.

    The MSM would be pointing out over and over the AGE difference between the Black MAN and the 17 year old.

    They would be pointing out that the Black MAN had over 100 pounds on the White BOY, and how that size difference made it RIDICULOUS that the White BOY would be in any shape to attack the Black MAN.

    The story would be how SCARED THIS WHITE BOY was as he was BEING FOLLOWED BY THE BIG, BLACK MAN.

  49. 49.

    Mnemosyne

    March 25, 2012 at 12:31 am

    @Jennifer:

    At the point where, again assuming this is accurate, you have Martin beating on Zimmerman, you’ve got a case of an innocent person defending himself against an aggressor who was stalking him. No way does that get Zimmerman off the hook for shooting Martin – Zimmerman is the one who instigated the fight (again, if indeed it occured).

    Yeah, I’m not really getting how this evidence exonerates Zimmerman in any way. So the law says that you can follow someone in your car, get out of your car to chase them, and if they fight back when you try to grab them, you’re totally justified in killing them? Seriously?

  50. 50.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    March 25, 2012 at 12:32 am

    @WyldPirate: You know, if it were a little while later I’d tell you to go wear a hoodie, but we’ll save that for later.

  51. 51.

    Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)

    March 25, 2012 at 12:34 am

    @WyldPirate:

    Self-flagellation? I’m talking about maybe having my feelings rubbed a little raw. Trayvon Martin got his face blown off. And he wasn’t the first, either. And it keeps happening because too many whites aren’t willing to risk a few bruised sensibilities. And you make my point for me, sparky, better than I ever could. Dickwad…

  52. 52.

    JDReign

    March 25, 2012 at 12:35 am

    @WyldPirate:

    I’m sure all of that sounded much better in your head. It’s frightening, fascinating and funny when stupid people try to be clever. A hat-trick, congratulations!!!

  53. 53.

    gaz

    March 25, 2012 at 12:35 am

    Umm it’s fox news.

    That means a couple of things.

    1. If the entire story isn’t a whopping lie, there’s at least one major lie in part of it. This *is* Fox, after all.

    2. Whatever the lie is, it’s a racist lie. See #1, 2nd point.

  54. 54.

    eemom

    March 25, 2012 at 12:40 am

    @WyldPirate:

    you are a disgusting pig.

  55. 55.

    BigSouthern

    March 25, 2012 at 12:40 am

    @rikyrah:

    Yes, all of this. I’ve already seen conflicting reports come in that Trayvon was 6’2″ then 6’3″ then 6’4″ tall. I suspect by the time Wednesday rolls around he’ll have been a 6’13”-tall MMA participant who used Skittles to prep for matches.

    I’ve always tried not to hate the people on the right because it seemed counterproductive. But this shit makes a soul weary. A young boy is dead because a racist loser with no enjoyable way to spend his evenings decided a teenager walking like a teenager was a drugged up thief. Instead of just accepting this as obviously tragic they seem to want to concoct every inane “what-if” scenario available to soothe the pangs of their cognitive dissonance.

    By dint of being human, this should be beneath them. But I’m coming to understand more and more we don’t inhabit the same moral universe.

  56. 56.

    Joel

    March 25, 2012 at 12:42 am

    @Rick Taylor: Yep, this is Murdoch rehashing old news as a “new break” for his foreign right-whinge noospaper.

  57. 57.

    JGabriel

    March 25, 2012 at 12:44 am

    Also, too: Deja Vu.

    .

  58. 58.

    amk

    March 25, 2012 at 12:51 am

    @WyldPirate: guess a stupid shithead will always be a stupid shithead.

  59. 59.

    gaz

    March 25, 2012 at 1:02 am

    @WyldPirate: Your trolling doesn’t even rise to the level of Kola Noscopy’s efforts.

    It’s time to make the one intelligent choice you will ever make in this lifetime. The best choice for you. The best choice for your friends (assuming you had any – heh). The best choice for your family.

    Go kill yourself.

    It’s the smartest thing you could ever do (in your case).

    All of that FAIL – over – in one determined flash.

  60. 60.

    Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)

    March 25, 2012 at 1:19 am

    Would it be unseemly for me to gloat that Mr. Pirate (or is it Mr. Wyld-Pirate? I can’t tell if Wyld is his first name or if Wyld and Pirate are hyphenated last names) doesn’t get a whole lot of respect or affection here?

  61. 61.

    Joseph Nobles

    March 25, 2012 at 1:20 am

    This witness doesn’t speak to who started the fight, only who was in the process of losing it.

    From all accounts of the taped shooting, it’s Trayvon pleading for his life before the shot went off. (I haven’t been able to bring myself to listen to the 911 calls. I think Trayvon’s parents can recognize their son’s voice well enough.)

  62. 62.

    MobiusKlein

    March 25, 2012 at 1:36 am

    In other gun news, out here in San Francisco – 5 dead in a horrific mass slaughter, no clue yet who did it.

    At some point, we need to remember that having guns all over the place and idiots all over the place and psycos all over the place will lead to massacres all over the place.

    Iraq, Afghanistan, California, Florida. 5 slain

  63. 63.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    March 25, 2012 at 1:52 am

    @chrismealy:

    Murdoch puts shit in the Daily Mail so Fox News can say, “Reports say …” It’s just like money laundering, but for bullshit.

    Murdoch doesn’t own the Daily Mail.

  64. 64.

    ruemara

    March 25, 2012 at 2:08 am

    @WyldPirate: Wow. Eternally, you fucking pig-fuck, fuck you.

  65. 65.

    The prophet Nostradumbass

    March 25, 2012 at 4:08 am

    WyldPirate: Racist. What a surprise.

  66. 66.

    DecidedFenceSitter

    March 25, 2012 at 7:15 am

    What this most reminds me of is the guy named Zamudio who had a CCW permit and gun at the Gifford’s shooting after showing up on the scene did not shoot the person who had disarmed the actual shooter.

    The witness, assuming that he is telling the truth, only saw the aftermath and not what led up to it. And unfortunately as far as we know only one eye witness was there and it was the defendant (AFAIK).

    Which is why, in my mind and so many other minds, it all hinges on the fact that Zimmerman pursued the kid. Circumstantial but it sets intent. It provides a logical sounding narrative of Zimmerman being the aggressor that fits into our logic of what must have happened™.

    Do I think it is possible 150 lbs of athletic kid can surprise, knocking over and lb the crap out of someone? Sure. I deal with it every time I go into my martial arts class – and my class isn’t anything like a fist fight on the street. An assualt is sudden. It is brutal. And if you aren’t prepared for it you’ll go into vapor lock your mind trying to break through the OODA loop to get to act while you are being hit again and again.

  67. 67.

    Snarla

    March 25, 2012 at 8:58 am

    @WyldPirate, here are some wacked-out religious types enjoying a bloody religious festival: http://snarla.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-season-of-self-flagellation/

  68. 68.

    MattMinus

    March 25, 2012 at 10:05 am

    I’m sure what happened here was that Zimmerman made a classic old white guy mistake, he confused being fat with being big.

    He saw a rare thing, a black kid that was small enough not to scare him, and he thought he wanted a fight.

  69. 69.

    Cacti

    March 25, 2012 at 10:36 am

    @Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):

    People will turn themselves inside out looking for a way to justify it when a black kid gets shot

    I think the most odious aspect of the aftermath was local law enforcement’s attitude that:

    dead black teenager = open and shut case of self-defense

    The fact that the dead kid was tested for drugs and alcohol, but the guy who shot him down was not is just beyond belief.

  70. 70.

    Cacti

    March 25, 2012 at 10:40 am

    @WyldPirate:

    Maybe there are enough people awake that y’all can get a good PC-rage/hate Whitey fest cooking. Than all the good BJers—-who the world knows are the only True Liberals™—-can retire feeling they stuck it to “da Man”.

    It’s so damn funny that you pretend to be a concerned emo-prog most of the time, then when something like this happens…

    You just can’t hide your white sheets.

  71. 71.

    Persia

    March 25, 2012 at 11:05 am

    @Rick Taylor: Yeah, I can’t figure out how this New Evidence! contradicts anything. Zimmerman chased after Martin, there was probably a struggle, Zimmerman pulled his gun out on an unarmed teenage kid.

  72. 72.

    Jay in Oregon

    March 25, 2012 at 11:12 am

    With a hat tip to Digby:

    http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/whats-missing-from-trayvon-martin.html

    https://twitter.com/#!/markos/status/183277268695662592

    Think about it. Every other situation in which an innocent person gets gunned down there is a cacophony of gun nuts screeching that if only this person had been armed he could have defended himself. It’s been the basis of every concealed and open carry argument for the last couple of decades.
    __
    And yet, in this case, nothing. No impassioned appeals for loosening the gun laws so that ordinary Americans could go to the store in the evening to buy some candy and an iced tea without getting stalked and shot by some unhinged vigilante. No solemn op-eds about the dangers for average Americans when venturing unarmed into the streets of their own neighborhoods. No fiery speeches from Wayne LaPierre insisting that if only everyone in the neighborhood had been armed with submachine guns they could have run outside and started firing immediately upon hearing the screams for help. Nada. Why do you suppose that is?

  73. 73.

    Rob

    March 25, 2012 at 11:45 am

    As has been pointed out, this is NOT a new witness. If you listen to the compilation of 9-1-1 calls, I’m guessing that this is the first one (after Zimmerman), who says “they’re fighting right in back of my porch”.

  74. 74.

    Joel

    March 25, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    @WyldPirate: Why, you are an epic douchebag. Consider that, next time you wish to vent your professional frustrations.

  75. 75.

    Liberty60

    March 25, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    @eemom:
    If say, a large black man names Zimmerman stalked a 16 year old white girl names Tracie Martin, then there was a confrontation in which she scratched his face but ended up shot….

    Nancy Grace would spontaneously orgasm, and hold a 3 week long special series in memory of “Tracie the All American Girl” who was vicious murdered by a thug;

    Fox and Friends would broadcast live from the Tracie Martin Memorial each day;

    There would be an instant Lifetime movie about her tragic murder;

    The NRA and Komen Foundation would issue a pink “Tracie Martin” 9 MM semiautomatic pistol;

    Newt would argue that this is why we need a national militia ROTC program on every high school campus, where the federal government issues a handgun to every teenager.

    Did I miss anything?

  76. 76.

    Hold on there Bubba

    March 27, 2012 at 12:46 am

    Looks like a second and possibly third witness now collaborates Zimmerman’s story. Zimmerman apparently had turned back toward his truck after being told not to pursue. It is reported by the second witness that Trayton then attacked Zimmerman. Even the author of this article now admits they were fighting which is much different than we heard in the beginning. Why is it people always jump to conclusions? This is why we have courts and juries. This is America, not Iran.

  77. 77.

    gaz

    April 1, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    @Some Loser: I already suggested that.

    It’s the most intelligent option for him, as I pointed out a few days ago.

    Which is why he’ll never do it.

  78. 78.

    david

    April 1, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    This incident could have been completely avoided.
    Zimmerman “what are you doing HERE”
    trayvon ” I’m going to my fathers house down the street”
    zimmerman ” sorry for misunderstanding, there has been few burglary around here recently”
    Trayvon “it’s alright, you are doing your job”

    This should have been normal.

Comments are closed.

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  1. ‘New’ Witness Claims Trayvon Martin Attacked Zimmerman [updated] | Angry Black Lady Chronicles says:
    March 24, 2012 at 11:00 pm

    […] at Balloon Juice] Angry Black Related Posts:The Heartbreaking Story of Trayvon Martin’s Death, Part I: Piecing […]

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