I’d like to elaborate a little on this fight because it’s worse than a lie, it’s exactly the opposite of what actually occurred:
The president jumps into the Trayvon Martin controversy without all the facts being known, essentially calling for the shooter to be arrested and convicted, and yet it is GOP cadidates criticizing the president who are “reprehensible” according to Obama advisor David Plouffe?
I think “essentially” is my very favorite weasel word. When I read it, my weasel-radar pings.
This is the second racial incident in which Obama has jumped the gun and either criticized “stupid” police as he did in the Gates controversy, or local authorities as he did last Friday in the Trayvon Martin tragedy. The former Constitutional law professor doesn’t get it. When the president weighs in on a flashpoint controversy like this, he colors everyone’s perception – including police, local courts, and his own DoJ.
Because all things involving black people are the same? Is that why what Obama said here is “like” what he said in Gates?
Because it’s not.
“Obviously this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. When I think about this boy I think about my own kids and I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together, federal, state and local to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.
I’m glad that not only the Justice Department is looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what is taking place.
I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how something like this happened. That means that we examine the laws and the context for what happened as well as the specifics of the incident.
But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon. If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon. I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we will get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”
Actually, the truth is, Republicans, panicked and running from their own law, went WAY too far on the merits of the case.
Here is former Governor Jeb Bush, making a legal determination without “the facts being known”:
“This law does not apply to this particular circumstance… Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”
Wow. Does not apply. Thanks, Judge Bush. We’ll move right to sentencing.
“[The lack of arrest] doesn’t make sense to me… You’ve got to let the judicial process work. Hopefully it’s done at a pace that is respectful for people hurting.”
Less-than-great police work, apparently, in Jeb Bush’s opinion. The lack of arrest doesn’t “make sense”, even to a member of the Bush family, which is saying something.
And here are Florida GOP lawmakers weighing in on the case:
The controversial Stand Your Ground law is also commonly referred to as the “castle doctrine.” It was sponsored by Republican lawmakers Rep. Dennis Baxley and then Sen. Durell Peaden and passed by the Florida state legislature in 2005.
Baxley wrote an op-ed article published by Fox News. In the op-ed Baxley wrote, “There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals, it simply protects those who would be potential victims by allowing for force to be used in self-defense.”
Peaden reportedly told the Miami Herald that the law does not apply to shooter George Zimmerman because he followed the child. Peadon told the newspaper that the moment Zimmerman told the 911 dispatcher that he was following the boy that he lost any defense under the Stand Your Ground law.
The truth is exactly the opposite of the claim. President Obama said nothing on the legal merits, current and former GOP leaders in Florida, panicked and running away from their own law, did.
I await the right wing editorial condemning Jeb Bush.
I will acknowledge being guilty of hyperbole and exaggeration – something Washington Monthly engages in when calling me a liar. Writing that Obama was “essentially calling for the arrest and conviction” of the shooter, was, I freely admit, not a quote, but rather reflected my opinion of the consequences of the president’s actions and his ill-timed and ill-chosen remarks.
Only little children and liberals believe that bringing DoJ into this incendiary local matter doesn’t guarantee Zimmerman’s eventual arrest and conviction for…something. Manslaughter, violation of Martin’s civil rights – it only matters in the sense that the hysteria ginned up over this horrible incident will ensure that authorities will shape their investigation to satisfy the howling mob. When so much is unknown – and perhaps unknowable – about what actually happened, prosecutors will find some way to appease those who are emotionally unhinged and might respond to a call for “retaliation” or vigilante action. Like it’s never happened before? Just ask Sacco and Vanzetti.
Mr. Singal prefers to take a politicians words at face value. For myself, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a liberal or conservative, I tend to question the motives and intent of politicians – especially presidents – who inject themselves thoughtlessly into controversies like the Martin tragedy.
I still await the right wing editorial condemning Jeb Bush.
Karl The Crap Blog Detective
Isn’t that true 100% of the time?
So, you see, it’s not a lie. It’s… um… something else.
As long as all black people are black, yes.
“Chase after somebody who’s turned their back”?
It’s an incredible thing to say. Jeb Bush must be a tad nervous about that law he lobbied for and signed. Mr. Zimmerman goes under the Bush Dynasty Bus! Bye bye!
Get a Brain!
So Sacco and Vanzetti were innocent? Wow. Can you believe America would have ever convicted an innocent person because of the way he looked or his country of origin?
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
And like I said before when the actual bill crafter tried to claim the same thing: whatever your intentions were, it doesn’t change that the interpretation of the law, as allowed by its language, has become absurdly broad enough for people to get away with murder by claiming “self-defense” in situations that would never be considered so in most sane cases. Lawyers have argued, and judges have ruled, on such that yes, precedent says this COULD be allowed under your damn law.
Billy Rae Valentine
kay, what blogger said these critical statements about the President weighing in?
i don’t see a name or a link to where it was said.
I like it, the excuses can go either way and it’s still an I-win-you-lose situation! (OK, it’s actually a double-lose, but their side benefits that way too)
If Washington Monthly calls me a liar, they’re the bad guys because it was just hyperbole and they’re being meanies!
If Washington Monthly accuses me of using hyperbole, they’re the bad guys because I was (supposedly) ignorant of the full text of the remarks, and that this tiny little piece I saw was very very bad and so justified my remarks, and they’re being meanies!
Moran is obviously unfamiliar with the first rule of holes.
@Billy Rae Valentine: The link is in the first sentence of her post.
Standard winger non-apology: “I acted like a liberal!”
Just fuck you.
So basically, he went from “liberals said dumb things, this proves that conservatives are awesome,” to “Oh, it was actually the conservatives who said dumb things, but Obama is still dumb because my real point was that all politicians are dumb, and Obama is a politician, therefore he’s dumb. QED.”
That Gant Daily thingie you linked to is confusing Castle Doctrine with Stand Your Ground. They are not interchangeable terms.
Silly Kay. Jeb Bush is white, ergo, correct. Barack Obama is black, ergo, pre-criminal thug who is one step away from jail if only his Kenyan hoodoo powers would fail.
Sadly, this confusion is what results when the NRA draft state law.
They want to conflate castle and stand your ground, so they did.
Boy, conservatives sure are concerned about the rights of the accused all of a sudden, aren’t they? If only there were an organization dedicated to protecting those rights.
Yes, even immigrants should be protected from being railroaded. Even if they hold radical political beliefs.
I expect that to become a popular view among the American right any day now.
The funniest part of the whole thing is Gates.
Police went into his home and hauled him off. The state hauled off the man in his castle!
It doesn’t even make sense as a civil liberties argument, but it’s two black people, thus, THE SAME.
Who’s the poster?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@kay: They seem intent on failing to understand context, as with the circumstances of the Skip Gates “incident.” Nor do they recognize that President Obama made his comments in response to a question asked about the shooting. The reicht acts as if he held a Rose Garden press conference to weigh in with his views.
Rick Moron misspelled his own last name as Moran. Moran.
There’s a line in a Family Guy episode, where Stewie offere a toast and says “to the black man for taking it all in stride”.
This case is exposing the racist among us much more than even the election of Obama ever did.
Good Lord. I tell ya what, certain parts of the population should be really glad that there isn’t more “race war” lashing out than there could be.
This case hits way close to home for me. I have a 12 year old nephew, a 15 year old godson, beaucoup Black male cousins, uncles, etc that everytime I think about this case, I see their faces.
It’s really getting to the point where I just have to daily get away from reading ANY thing more about this case.
I’m not really one to shy away from discussing stuff with friends, white or Black, but this case I’m sorry to say has me not even willing to bring up the case to my more conservative white friends, cause i kid ya not, I consider some of these people nicest people I work with, but I swear to God that if I brought up this case and any of them bought into the RW framing of this case…the anger that I feel is just simmering at the surface, and I may just blow up at them.
So I just don’t bring it up.
The fun thing here is that we already know that Zimmerman killed Martin. That’s not in dispute (so far, anyway. I await with dread the right-wing blogosphere’s discovery of a second gunman on the grassy knoll). Thus, you have two options. Either you believe that Zimmerman was, under Florida law, acting legally, or you believe that Zimmerman committed a crime (some degree of murder, not manslaughter). Since these nitwits aren’t really willing to defend the Florida law, it follows that they believe Zimmerman is guilty of the crime. Hence, we must ask why all the angst at the possibility that he’d be accused of the crime?
Rick Moran proves himself to be a fucking idiot. Film at 11.
That’s my attitude with a great deal of things (though in my case it’s the Arab/Muslim thing that I’m more sensitive to) when it comes to the ideological conservatives I know – mostly for the same reasons as you. The problem arises when they themselves can’t STFU about it, which is often.
(Opinions are like assholes, the saying goes… and at their age, the conservatives I know ought to know that not everyone wants to hear their opinion any more than they want to see the crack of their ass).
(in unison) Because shut up, that’s why.
“Mr. Singal prefers to take a politicians words at face value. For myself, I prefer to state that the politician actually said the exact opposite of what they did.
@Mister Papercut: Well, yes. You may have gathered that that question was just a tad rhetorical…
These people are incapable or arguing their case, hence they resort to lying about everything. It’s because none of their policies are popular or reasonable. So what’s left? LIE!
ETA: Site rebuild is working nicely!
Er, except that when I edited that comment it stayed on the edit page.
@dmsilev: Oh, sure. It’s likewise a non-answer.
Doesn’t stop our conservative pals from using variations of it, of course, but it’s just. So. Much. Fun! (I so desperately want to use it in real life, just one time. Dear 8 pounds 6 ounces baby Jesus, please make this happen for me…)
If you don’t want to read the whole thing, it basically boils down to, “It doesn’t matter what the blackety blackety black man said, I don’t like it!”
Keep digging, Moran. Look what you’ve done: not only did you imply that the DoJ is corrupt, and kowtows to political marching orders. But you also pretty much preemptively declared a judge and jury, who might one day deal with this, corrupt as well.
The statement was measured and thoughtful, but it doesn’t matter.
They’re simply going to invent a statement that fits the ridiculous argument.
It quite literally does not matter what Obama actually says.
They’ll find evidence to support the charge, even if they have to plant it.
Absolutely. There was nothing wrong with what Obama said. It’s just a pretext for the same old “blacks are racists against the white man” b-s. But Moran was rather clumsy in not staying on target, wasn’t he? Not only did he smear the President like he meant, but DoJ and the judiciary writ large as well. I mean, he’s pretty much saying that they’re all corrupt, isn’t he?
You should meet my family. A parade of nice rust belters who want to know what black people except when they “dress like thugs” And by “thugs” of course they mean wear hoodies which they do everyday. But they can wear it because “we’re not thugs” and “how often do you hear of white people robbing stores and killing people” (I’m not even kidding)
maybe he just shouldn’t say anything at all
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Obama was asked about Gates at a press event on health care.
That’s what happened. Sweet asked him about Gates because she’s a Chicago journalist and she knew he knows Gates.
Media then went off on a 2 week jag of discussing nothing else other than Obama’s race, which is a hell of a lot easier and more fun than talking about his WORK, which was the health care law.
I love how this shit gets rewritten. Now Obama insisted on interjecting Gates.
That’s not what happened.
Only little children and conservatives simply cannot ever, under any circumstances, just say they were wrong without adding some degree of “Nuh uh YOU’RE a poopyhead! And if you hold your head at the right angle and squint just the right amount you’ll see that I wasn’t wrong anyway so THERE poopyhead!”
In the immortal words of Charlie Pierce: Jesus, these people.
If it were up to the liberals, it’d just be flat-out illegal to shoot innocent black guys. Hmmmph. Might as well surrender the US flag to the United Nations if we were to do that.
Kay, thank you for this.
Well, they need evidence for a trail or else he walks. They can’t arrest Trayvon Martin without cause because they wouldn’t be able to hold him there. They took him in for questioning, he passed the questions, the eye witnesses reports must have matched his so they let him go until they had something substantial to charge him with. (would be my guess)