The Zimmerman image rehabilitation tour is careening headlong into Stupidtown and threatens to barrel right through the Cottonfield of Ignorance:
“I spoke with my teenage daughter yesterday, and the word in question, it’s the difference between a ‘C’ and a ‘G’ from what I understand,” attorney Craig Sonner explained.
“And ‘goon’ is apparently a term of endearment in the high schools these days,” he added. “I don’t know of anyone younger than 40 who uses ‘coon’ as a racial epithet.”
Really, guy?
You know, when folks last week were convinced that they had heard Zimmerman say “fucking coons” as he pursued Trayvon Martin, I disagreed. I didn’t hear “coons,” I heard “cones.” Who says “coons” anymore?
But, after Zimmerman’s best bro’s nonsense spiel this morning, I definitely think he said “fucking coons.”
Now, if you’re trying to rehabilitate your client’s image, and you think he might have said coons, what story should you go with?
1) These kids today (who are on my lawn, by the way) use the word “goon” as a term of endearment. That’s what Zimmerman was saying as he pursued Trayvon Martin armed with a gun. “Fuckin’ goons! Hey you fuckin’ goon! Come here, I just want to talk!”; or
2) Zimmerman was running, tripped over a cone, and said, “fucking cones”; or even
3) Zimmerman was running with a comb in his pocket, and said, said “fucking combs.”
The answer is 2 or 3. The answer is always 2 or 3. The answer is not “Zimmerman — who is a decade out of high school and would be unlikely to use high school slang — was chasing Trayvon after being told not to because “these assholes always get away,” and while he was giving chase, he muttered “fuckin’ goons” as some sort of expression of affection for the teenager he was pursuing and in an effort to speak that teenager’s language.
Come the fuck on, people. That did not happen. It just didn’t. But now that the Zimmerman’s team has made the claim, it’s going to stick, and a tenacious federal prosecutor might be able to use the sheer ridiculousness of Zimmerman’s “not-coons-but-goons” claim to make a hate crime case.
Who says “coons”? Very few people. But no one chasing a teenager says “fucking goons” as a term of endearment. No one.
Way to stand your ground and shoot yourself in the foot.
[via The Raw Story]
[cross-posted at ABLC]
JPL
And the word fuckin just makes it more endearing. Next time I hear someone say fuckin goon, I’m just gonna give him/her a big hug.
scav
Has to be said. Goons is the new blah.
ETA: Change to test edit! Anybody made an effort to make something of the Goon Show being suddenly and unexpectedly hip with the Zimmerman crowd?
testtest testETA: oh goody, trapped in edit space functionality!
jnc
Yes, it sure is funny when people get all irrational about something and say stupid crap.
JPL
Why didn’t the lawyer say he saw a raccoon in a trash can. That wouldn’t be believable but it’s better than he wanted to call him a term of endearment.
Martin
My wife and I just decided to drop ‘sweetie’ and ‘honey’ and adopt ‘spearchucker’ and ‘wetback’ as our new terms of endearment, just in case we’re caught on tape one day. Failing to plan is planning to fail.
And kudos to my sweet fucking wetback for seeing the wisdom of by plan and agreeing to go along with it.
FridayNext
I always precede the using of a term of endearment toward a friend, loved one or stranger by first calling them an asshole. Don’t you?
lacp
But..but..what kind of cones, ABL? Sugar cones? Traffic cones? Or just…blah ones?
Spaghetti Lee
Uh, what? I got out of high school a few years ago, and I never heard anyone call anyone else a ‘goon’ in any context, let alone endearment.
Other options:
-He was referencing Delaware senator Chris Coons, perhaps still bitter about the gorgeous and sexy Christine O’Donnell being taken down by him and his liebrul hate machine in the 2010 elections.
-He is a patron of postmodern art and referring disparagingly to Jeff Koons, whose work he sees as little more than cheap commercial kitsch.
-He’s a rotten racist shithead.
Readers, you make the call!
JPL
@FridayNext: hmmm…do exes count?
scav
@FridayNext: Without calling 911 on them? That’s cold.
the Conster (f/k/a Cat Lady)
@Martin:
Nothing says I love you like “you fucking honkey”. Hallmark needs to get on this asap.
FridayNext
@scav:
They have to come across with a little something special before I call 911. I’m easy, but not cheap.
Scott
Yeah, it was a term of endearment for a guy who he’d just called the police about because he suspected him of nefarious brown-person atrocities and who he shot dead only a few minutes later. Such endearment!
scav
@the Conster (f/k/a Cat Lady): Not to mention getting the Valentine’s Day line of ammo lined up for next year. The candy colors with little pink endearments “Wop” “Cracker” “Honky” “Towelhead” “Goon” don’t produce themselves.
David Koch
Hitler never said he hated “the Jews:, he said hated “the stews”.
Can you blame him, they’re high in sodium.
Hitler gets a bad rap. It was all a misunderstand. In reality, he was a hippie vegan who loved dogs. If he was alive today, he be running a Whole Foods store (with out stews, of course).
MikeBoyScout
How sad and pathetic people become when attempting to justify their wrong doings.
It’s only a matter of time before Zimmerman takes himself out.
The NRA and Jeb Bush should feel very proud.
Martin
@the Conster (f/k/a Cat Lady): IIRC, Hallmark calls their black themed greeting cards ‘Mahogany Collection’. What would the alibi-for-racism collection be called?
David Koch
@Spaghetti Lee:
Well, she is bewitching.
gnomedad
They are never, ever, ever, wrong … it just sometimes takes time to find the right “explanation”.
David Koch
@Martin: The White Wash Collection
J. Michael Neal
@JPL:
Give the guy a break. Zimmerman doesn’t give him much to work with and he’s doing the best he can.
David Koch
Livingston was traumatized as a youth by Captain Lou Albano and Cyndi Lauper in the Goonies movie.
Spaghetti Lee
@Martin:
Well, you know how they have cards ‘for Mom’, ‘for Dad’, etc? Maybe this could be their ‘for the black friend I have’ section.
Amir Khalid
It should be easy enough to confirm whether the high school kidz in Florida call their friends “goon”. Do they? (I’d bet the answer is no.)
That aside, it’s kind of entertaining, the sheer preposterosity of the excuses that these nasty people are making up for George Zimmerman. The dumber the excuse, the plainer it becomes that they’re making shit up, and the more pathetic they seem.
JPL
@David Koch: He really wanted to run a soup kitchen for those in need
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
Seriously?
No, really, seriously? Just….ugh….
Warren Terra
The Sheriff Is Near, indeed.
gwangung
Zimmerman’s “friends” should really shut up.
A lot of people are convinced that he just said “fucking punks.”
Don’t think that’s the case now.
Fwiffo
When I listen to it, it sounds more and more like “fucking cops”. But “fucking goons”, “fucking coons” or “fucking phones” all work in context too. I honestly think it’s less important than the rest of the call, which shows his intent to go vigilante.
I do think it’s true that “coons” is something you’d expect to hear from an older racist. It’s like somebody saying “colored”. A racist of Zimmerman’s age would probably use a different slur. The ones I’ve had the misfortune of meeting tend to either use a more dog-whistley term or go straight for the N-CLANG.
David Koch
@JPL: He wanted to call it “The Final Souplution”
lacp
@Martin: Maybe the “Peckerwood Collection?”
debit
You guys have it all wrong. He was saying Boourns.
RSA
It’s not — It’s ’90s slang for a vampire, before they got all sparkly.
ellennelle
@Amir Khalid:
yeah, i’m just dying to hear what relation this black friend has not to george so much, but his dad, the retired judge. ditto for the legal counsel.
ya gotta know the ol’ judge is directing all this from behind the curtain, hence the ability to reach out to national abc news and get on the air.
yeah, that would happen if the victim were george and trayvon had been the one with the gun.
eemom
Jesus H. Christ, Ph.D. Isn’t the TRAGEDY horrible enough?
Why do they HAVE to keep piling on Teh Stoopid?
Joshua Norton
“I don’t know of anyone younger than 40 who uses ‘coon’ as a racial epithet.”
Oh bullshit. On Martin Luther King day, Breitbarts “Big Bigots” and most of FReeper-ville is full of references to “Martin Luther Coon”. It’s being used as much as it ever was.
scav
Then again, where a 28-year-old is picking up HS slang could open a whole ‘nother creepy can of worms. Scylla and Charybdis.
gbear
Unless he learned his worldview from his daddy.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
And when Zimmerman said “They always get away,” he was implying he doesn’t get a chance to tell them what great people they are.
Southern Beale
Is everyone following this battle between Charles Johnson at LGF and wingnut Dan Riehl? It’s a must-read.
Billy Rae Valentine
as a more hip-hop inclined person, i’ll add what i know.
“goon” is absolutely a current hip-hop slang term. it is kinda like the modern day “thug” but less noble. thug was basically just your average street guy living a rough life.
you could definitely look it up on urban dictionary and see an ok explanation. but someone would not use it in the context zimmerman is alleged to have used it. it IS more like a term of endearment used in the third person to describe someone who is like your soldier, your tough-guy henchmen who handles the dirty work for you. “yo my goons got my back”. “running with a squad of goons”. like tough guys who will kick your butt;don’t-give-a-f_ck types.
i’ve never heard someone say something like “hese doggone goons around here are out of control” or “come here, goon”. “wzup, goon”. never.
so i don’t buy it but fwiw that’s what the word means.
Martin
FWIW, slurs are very localized in use. It’s not the kind of thing that really exists in broad social context – they’re part of a private language used among acquaintances – in the same way that we coin Caribou Barbie and everything else in the lexicon. It’s how we know we belong to this place. I don’t think you can draw any conclusions on slur use at all.
Sawgrass Stan
I’m trying to think of ANYBODY that might buy this eye-roller of an “explanation.”
I haven’t had the strength to look, but there probably are a lot of Upstanding Citizens commenting on this new and startling addition to the language. None of them are racists, either, I betcha.
Thymezone
I have heard the tape 30-40 times. I knew what he said on the first listen. So did everyone else who heard a clear playback. His every mention of Trayvon’s actions and demeanor was filled with disgust. There was “something wrong with him.” He was “looking around” and acting “suspicious” and like the other “assholes” George had pursued, he was trying to “get away.” So after this deranged tirade, he would whisper a loud term of “endearment” for the black kid?
Sure, and Rick Santorum didn’t say “black people.” Sorry, right wing liars, there is nothing wrong with our hearing.
Southern Beale
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
LOL. Honestly, I find the right’s knee-jerk defense of Zimmerman simply astonishing. I don’t know why I’m surprised but I am. I should have learned by now that there is no “bottom” to scrape in the wingnut barrel.
trollhattan
Any reason to doubt when all is said and done, Zimmerman can become the GOP’s next Joe the Plumber? He’ll for sure be speaking at NRA conventions.
tofubo
on an unrelated note
did anyone ask the racist mf’er known as frothy what was the other word he intended to say ??
Lord Jesus Perm
@David Koch: That is excellent.
ellennelle
@Fwiffo:
mmm, not so sure i agree with your assessment; you may be thinking about ghetto speak, but down south, coon is still used, and not just by older white folks. i’ve heard it tossed around by the white collar white guys who live for the UT/Bama games, young and old alike. these guys are the very ones who perpetuate the old school thinking, tho they would all claim they’re not racist. and i’d have to believe, white cops in FL tend to continue to use it, as well (sure, especially older ones), which would encourage george to pick it up. and use it.
and, fwiw, i was dumbstruck with how clearly it sounded like ‘f*kin’ coons’ to my ear. and i’ve spent some time with these audio tapes (for both language studies and music). someone said above that it’s hard to believe this was intended as endearment by mr. z because he had just been referring to him as one of the ‘a**holes’ who always get away.
yeah, it’s all just stupid. desperate and stupid.
J. Michael Neal
@Fwiffo:
It’s critically important when it comes to the DoJ’s involvement. In order for a federal prosecution to go forward, there has to be an explicit race element to the crime. Absent that, it’s a state matter. There are a couple of exceptions to that, but they aren’t very likely to work here.
scav
Whole thing is such a fucking sideshow to the essential and core wrongness of the action from earlier to later by multiple actors in that city, state and this nation that it’s worth all the derision and sick humor we can kick out of it.
The 12th Doctor
I can’t lie; I thought it was odd for a young man to use the word “coon,”and I doubted the initial report. Just like Michele Obama and the supposed “whitey tape” I doubted the story because black people don’t even say “whitey.” (Honestly, black people can convey contempt just by using the word white in the right tone of voice.) Then I heard the tape, and if I can’t believe my ears, what can I believe? I distinctly heard the word “coon.”
wrb
So this guy is out chasing down passers-by while brandishing a gun and calling out terms of endearment?
I’ve heard of hard up and horny, but man…
JPL
@scav: The problem is the law which allows you to shoot anyone, anywhere that you feel is a threat. Every State that has shoot first and ask questions later law opens itself to be abused. It’s a tragedy and although Zimmerman is still allowed to walk around, he is still ruined. (at least I hope so)
Lynn Dee
Yes, and what could be more endearing than stalking someone with a gun and discussing their
suspiciousness with police dispatch?
Chris
@J. Michael Neal:
And that’s why the “guys, stop make it raaaaacial!” calls are as inevitable as passing gas after Chipotle whenever a case like this comes up.
Part of it (a very big part) is their indignant need to not be perceived as racist, but it’s also very necessary from a practical point of view for no one ever to concede that there’s a racial element to any case that, well, has a racial element. As long as they don’t, the case stays with the local authorities, who are usually the problem in the first place, and all’s good.
JPL
Also, too how do we know that Martin wasn’t a tea bagger. He was carrying tea and a bag. Maybe it doesn’t count if the bag is skittles but it’s possible.
scav
@JPL: I want the local police at least as much, but that may just be me. Will take some serious dings into the city and state govt too, if available. ETA: Zimmerman had enablers, if not those who abetted his behavior.
lacp
@trollhattan: Hell, they’ll send him to Congress; they already elected Allen West for terrorizing an Iraqi prisoner.
The Dangerman
Please tell me that the winger that made this “terms of endearment” argument was named Debra. Get it? Terms of Endearment, Debra the Winger?
/dodges tomatoes and shoes
tofubo
on a completely unrelated note, didn’t marv albert have a hooker/sex scandal/bad divorce issue ?? why is he on my teevee ??
the Conster (f/k/a Cat Lady)
What’s so ridiculous about the right wing “argument” is to just do a simple thought experiment about how every component part of this event would be different if the race of Zimmerman and Trayvon were reversed. If Trayvon were white, he would never have been shot, just for starters. If Zimmerman were black and Trayvon were white, Zimmerman would have been arrested and arraigned immediately, and the police would have told Zimmerman to make his ‘stand your ground’ defense claim to the judge and jury, and so on and so on, right on through every single thing that happened from the initial contact through the police response, and ultimately the judicial outcome. It’s undeniable that what happened is because of the race of the victim, and everything flows from that.
Martin
@The Dangerman: You should be banned for that.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@David Koch:
Nahhh…Because “Juden” is the German word for “Jew”.
I’m going with “students- a dog-whistle to the German Anglophiles fed up with the Ivory Tower elitists of the Weimar Republic.
Mark S.
@tofubo:
He’s been back on TV for like twelve years.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Southern Beale: Did you see the picture from the comments. It gave me the idea to buy a box of skittles and put a sign on them that says “free if you have a hoodie.”
Mnemosyne
@Southern Beale:
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Charles Johnson has moved so far to the left that he’s now citing ABL. It kinda blows my mind even three or four years in.
Mark S.
I have never heard anyone use goon as a term of endearment. Maybe Tony Soprano did, when one of his henchmen did a real good job whacking someone, but I doubt it.
Ruckus
@eemom:
They think piling on the stupid puts out the fire. You know water is everywhere and for them stupid is as common. Therefore stupid puts out fires.
muddy
@scav:
This. It’s just silly.
I have been disturbed that in the media it is a given that they actually fought hand to hand (tussled), the evidence is apparently that Zimmerman has mud on his back and a wound in the back of his head, plus a broken nose. That same evidence would cover a scenario of Zimmerman slipping and falling down, getting muddy and hitting the back of his head on the ground. The broken nose could have been from him running into some inanimate object before *or* after the killing. Or he could have smacked himself in the face after, to bolster his claims.
All of what I have said is pure speculation. But the version being given on “the news” is speculation as well, but is reported as truth. “That much we know,” etc.
I mean, anyone familiar with this blog knows that you can easily slip and fall down causing ridiculous injuries all unassisted.
WereBear
@Martin: You made me google that. Holy Mother of Pearl. They did that.
Always hated Hallmark. Buncha thieves.
JPL
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): but he still wanted the stew/soup kitchens right..
I keep harping on the law but that should be what is at issue here.
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.— . . . a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:………………………….
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony . . .
It legalizes murder as long as the witness is dead.
Since we are using terms of endearment, Jeb, Baxley and anyone who voted or signed this law are just as responsible as Zimmerman and they are all fuckin goons and assholes. I giving the hoodie a pass cuz hoodie’s don’t kill.
I do love my hoodies though.
Birthmarker
@David Koch:
Tagline-worthy.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Martin:
Mayonnaise Mementos?
Amir Khalid
@Southern Beale:
Two theories, not mutually exclusive, come to mind:
1. They believe George Zimmerman is one of them, and feel they owe him a defense, be he right or wrong, out of group loyalty.
2. They genuinely believe Zimmerman to be in the right here: i.e. he was defending the neighborhood against a hoodie-clad black teenager, the kind of person any right-thinking person knows is dangerous. After all, Martin did bloody poor widdle George’s nose when confronted, didn’t he?
Schlemizel
Growing up in 1950’s Minnesota I never heard the word “coon” used this way. I was in high school before someone used it. Heard plenty of other slurs about the blah people. The ‘nice’ part about it back then was the racists didn’t have to pretend they said goon. Made it so much less defensible
Roxie
Why won’t comments post that have a link? Have I been banned?
edit: guess not
Tried to show a mug shot of Zimmerman and ask why the right wing sites aren’t talking about that “scary” photo
Found it at Florida arrests dot Org under GZ
Quaker in a Basement
Right. And Zimmerman didn’t say “these assholes always get away,” he said “these ICE SOULS,”…you know, really cool people!
Martin
@WereBear: Yeah, I spotted it at the Hallmark store some years ago when they were promoting it “Lookie! Birfday cards for Negoes!”. They seemed very proud that they finally found a use for those long-neglected Crayolas. The owner was working the register and I noted that I chose exclusively from the honkey collection. She laughed.
Morbo
@Spaghetti Lee: No, see, one more option: maybe Zimmerman is an active member on the SomethingAwful forums.
the Conster (f/k/a Cat Lady)
@Roxie:
When the movie version of this whole mess gets made, Chaz Bono can play Zimmerman.
Too soon?
Jebediah
@The Dangerman:
Tomatoes and shoes? I am tossing kudos your way. Punny and silly is noble and good.
Roxie
@efgoldman: Did that but came up empty 3 times. Using Chrome. Any pie filters for Chrome yet?
Mike in NC
@trollhattan:
Or showing up at Santorum rallies wearing a “Neighborhood Watch” sweater vest.
James E. Powell
This “goons” thing is offensive bullshit, but it isn’t ridiculous. What the Zimmerman defenders are doing is putting enough stuff “out there” so that if and when twelve jurors are in a room trying to come up with a verdict, it will be among the “facts” that they just know, without regard to whether it was part of the trial evidence.
JPL
ABL Why don’t you write an article about the law that allows this behavior
Karen
Did Zimmerman get special treatment from the cops because his father is a judge?
Mark S.
@Amir Khalid:
Personally, I think it’s more that people they hate (Obama, black people, liberals) are on the other side. I don’t think they give a shit about George Zimmerman.
Oh, and they’re mostly pretty racist against black people.
Citizen Alan
@Mnemosyne:
Whittaker Chambers started off as a Trotskyite. David Horowitz worked closely with the Black Panthers. And I gather that there is a correlation between how fundamentalist your upbringing was and how likely you are to become an atheist later. When someone devotes themselves obsessively to a belief system that is unsustainable, it is not uncommon to run as far as you can in the opposite direction. Based on some of his recent postings, I’ve predicted that Doug Mataconis might be the next to snap and join us here in the Collective.
the Conster (f/k/a Cat Lady)
@Citizen Alan:
Frum is edging that way too, I think. His commenters are mostly BJ quality, and they needle him endlessly about just admitting that conservatism has failed, not been failed.
Ken
@trollhattan: Any reason to doubt when all is said and done, Zimmerman can become the GOP’s next Joe the Plumber?
Not the GOP’s; the higher-ups in the Florida party are busy throwing him under the bus – basically “This isn’t how the law is supposed to be used,” which makes me wonder how it is to be used.
But if he survives that, he should have a future on the wingnut welfare circuit.
Martin
@the Conster (f/k/a Cat Lady): Yeah, Frum seems ready to crack.
Mnemosyne
@Citizen Alan:
Honestly, though, I would argue that Chambers and Horowitz did not run in the opposite direction so much as they exchanged left-wing radicalism for right-wing radicalism. Once you get far enough out on the edges of political belief, there’s not that much effective difference between, say, an extreme libertarian and an extreme anarchist. Chambers and Horowitz switched teams without ever changing their underlying belief in radical politics.
Johnson’s (and Cole’s) transformation seems to be more along the lines of something Molly Ivins said about Texas liberals: “Once you figure out they’re lying to you about race, you start to wonder what else they’ve been lying to you about.”
ruemara
I have to say one thing. At no point, unless I have missed it, has a spokesperson for George Zimmerman ever delivered condolences, call this a mutual tragedy, say he is wrestling with the consequence of his actions, say that he had only the best of intentions but things went wrong…anything to show some level of humanity towards the family of Trayvon Martin. For weeks. In fact, his hope that this would blow over is the main thing that has stuck in my mind. Is there no one advising them that has even the basics of passing yourself off as a caring human being?
Cacti
Okay, let’s pretend for a second that there is no racial component whatsoever to this entire incident. The following facts remain:
Zimmerman was in his car, tailing a kid who was on foot, Zimmerman was armed, the kid had nothing more than Skittles and iced tea on his person.
He believed the kid was a criminal, despite a total lack of evidence to confirm this.
He confronted him despite 911 warning him not to do so.
The kid ended up shot dead.
No amount of PR makes those facts sound better.
JPL
@Karen: Is his father a judge? Do you have a link?
hieropants
Yeah unless they were having problems with members of Something Awful prowling the neighborhood I’m gonna guess that’s not what he said.
JPL
@Cacti: Once again here is the shoot to kill law
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.— . . . a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony . . .
Zimmerman felt he was protecting the neighborhood… The law needs to be repealed… It’s a license to murder.
He could have thought Trayvon Martin stole the ice tea and skittles..
catpal
this crap is making me really angry. Zimmerman needs to be in jail charged with murder of Trayvon Martin.
the more I read the more angry I become. There was NO investigation of this murder by Sanford police dept.
Now I read that the Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. makes this stupid decision.
“Capt. Robert O’Connor, who oversaw the Trayvon investigation, and Capt. Darren Scott, will lead the department, Bonaparte said”
oh sure, put the Capt who did Not investigate a murder in charge????
Time to Fire City Manager Bonaparte who has done a lousy job there, and apparently was well-liked by Repug Christie Todd Whitman when he worked in NJ. That alone makes me pretty suspicious of him.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
He’s probably gotten legal advice that publicly expressing any regret or remorse would open him up to being sued by the family. It’s a fairly big problem in our legal system, IMO — apologizing should mean that you pay a lesser penalty, not a greater one, but that’s not usually how it works out in a jury trial.
(Wow, that sounded lawyerly, didn’t it? But IANAL, so take it with a grain of salt.)
JPL
@Mnemosyne: Unless he is charged, the family cannot file civil charges according to FL law. They can legally murder in FL and the Stand Your Ground law exists if 24 states.
dogwood
@catpal:
Let’s not forget there was NO attempt to identity Trayvon Martin even though the police department had the young man’s cell phone. Zimmerman appears to be an unstable racist wannabe hero. He’s a dangerous man. The Sanford police are cold-blooded racists and are equally dangerous.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
They have very good voice filtering tech these days, and will likely get to the bottom of what was said, and what was heard. Per some claiming the cries for help were from Zimmerman, which police corrected the ear witness accounts, telling them they were wrong saying they heard a young male, not an older one.
There is so much scrutiny of this case, I think the truth will come out, and put to lie that Traynon started a fist fight, to the point of causing the racist fool to fear for his life, so he murdered out of self defense. That just doesn’t pass the smell test when considering the things we already know as fact.
Though with Florida’s get of jail free card law for racist murderers, there is no guarantee, or even probability that Zimmerman will be convicted for one of the homicide cats. Great country
wrb
@Cacti:
Yep, Zimmerman need not be a racist. We have a guy in our neighborhood who has the same sort of neighborhood watch obsession as Zimmerman. He’s always blocking the cars of visitors and confronting them with great hostility, telling them that the road is private and they are breaking the law (it is public) and mentioning his collection of guns. After people drove up our road for shelter after a tsunami warning he tried to drive them downhill and wrote a letter to the local paper complaining about the “illegal trespass.” He’s only ever confronted whites, as far as I know.
The other neighbors joke that it is amazing that he hasn’t killed anyone yet but there is always an edge to the jokes. He could.
These people who are obsessed with protecting home and turf don’t need race as a trigger.
Southern Beale
@Mnemosyne:
No shit! I remember over at Atrios we used to call him “Little Green Snotballs.” He used to be such a classic wingnut, what the hell happened?
Mark S.
@JPL:
Are you sure about that? I don’t think that’s true. You can generally get sued for wrongful death even if there is no question that it wasn’t criminal.
gwangung
@wrb: True. But there’s enough there that it would NOT be frivolous to investigate further or even bring to trial.
catpal
@dogwood: “The Sanford police are cold-blooded racists and are equally dangerous.”
difficult to believe anything different, at least of the No-investigation Sanford police involved and Chief Lee who thought the No-investigation-done was A-OK.
wrb
@gwangung:
Oh yea.
If the crazy fucker in my neighborhood eventually kills some stranger- white, black or purple- he should fry.
Racism isn’t required for the killing of strangers to be criminal, and if not criminal in Florida, evil nonetheless.
Ash Can
@Southern Beale:
I believe the global warming denialism and sheer anti-science/pro-ignorance of the right started to push him too far, and as his rightie pals reacted (badly, of course) to his questioning, his eyes were opened to the reality of the right wing.
catpal
@Mark S.:
from
2011 Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
Karen
@JPL:
He’s a retired judge:
http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-why-did-shoot-trayvon-martin-141231964.html
clayton
@wrb: You know, I was talking to a couple of people I work with about how the international students we teach don’t realize that they are in a place where, if they piss someone off, or just stumble into the wrong place at the wrong time, they could get shot. This was in connection to a student being a complete asshole wrt religion.
One teacher brought up Trayvon Martin. At the time I agreed with her and put it all in the context of strangers, the other, gun nuts et al.
I have since felt very sorry for having done that and don’t know quite how to approach her to say something or if I even should.
This case isn’t like a Scot getting shot through a door while asking for help or a Japanese getting shot while Trick or Treating.
This case is about a man hell bent on not letting a black kid get away with something that existed only in the shooter’s head. This case is something all together different and visceral.
I still feel like I should say something to the woman I work with. I want her to know that I know the difference. I don’t know how to go about it though, or even if I should.
And I finally got banned from Rick Moran’s site — after commenting there all day (under a different handle from here).
tofubo
@Mark S.:
just goes to show how much teevee i watch, thanks
tofubo
@Mark S.:
just goes to show how much teevee i watch, thanks
addendum:
i can’t add the above line, i get this instead:
and i didn’t
El Cid
The right always imagine that they’re in the position of the ones with the gun about to shoot a black guy; they never imagine they’re the one about to get shot by the crazed guy with the gun Standing His Ground.
rikyrah
this Black man is a slave catcher. his handkerchief head is on too tight.
Zimmerman is 28 years old – why the fuck would he know what teenagers say nowadays?
Southern Beale
@Ash Can:
Usually those people decide to become “Libertarian” though. He’s gone full-on liberal. I mean, I’m glad, and I admire the way he seems to enjoy confronting his former cohorts, but there’s so much anger there I always thought something else might be going on, too. Ah well. NOMB
Daaling
I am shocked, shocked I tells ya that ABL Vista Home Edition would see racism in this. Not just some shitbag that needs to be tried and convicted of a serious crime in a court of law.
Naw, ABL wants to see Zimmerman lynched in the court of public opinion because that is what would have happened if it were 1950 Mississippi and the roles were reversed. So 2 wrongs make a right.
It’s a fucked up situation and a serious investigation needs to be done which is exactly what is happening. So carry on arms flailing with hair on fire if you want but urrum, trust me, it’s not helping your cause whatever the fuck you think that might be.
Bill Murray
@tofubo: Yessss!!!
mid-90s Albert pled guilty to assault and battery after he bit a couple of women — he was up on forced sodomy charges. He was hired back after a couple of years of not doing games
jl
I heard the tape and it sounds like ‘coon’ to me. But, if it was ‘goon’? I heard no term of endearment.
I’ve also seen and heard witness testimony about this guy. The community, which from clips of witnesses I’ve seen seems mostly white, did not like the guy. People said he was an excitable aggressive hot head, were concerned about his obsession with stopping every black guy he saw, and other oddities of how he did his job.
And two violent incidents in his record.
So, the Sanford police said this guy was ‘squeaky clean’.
Something weird happened that night and so many questions that cannot be answered because of the outrageous FL shoot a man and walk law.
One question I have is, why did Zimmerman not stop following the kid when the police told him not to? Another is why, at first contact, Zimmerman did not say he was a neighborhood watch patrol, and showed some ID?
But no, Zimmerman was around to tell his story and the other guy is dead, and apparently the law says the police have to prove Zimmerman wrong to do anything. At least the incompetent, or racist, or both Sanford police dept has to do it that way.
The reactionary reverse double dog dare race baiting whining about Obama’s statement is disgusting. The whole statement is very clearly about ALL parents, not just black parents. What more proof do you need to show the reactionaries’ depravity.
jenn
Tee hee. From LGF:
__
ABL tweets:
“Leading you down the path through the Cottonfield of Ignorance.” is now a rotating tagline. Thank you, @DanRiehl! #p2 #TFY #ABLC
__
DanRiehl @DanRiehl
__
@AngryBlackLady You’re welcome. Perhaps a few brave, independent souls will get it. Been sad watching the manipulation ovr the years
__
*************
Just: fail.
Daaling
Oh and let’s get the black panthers to put a bounty on his head. Yea, heck of a job there black panthers. Just put on that clown suit and squeeze right on in clown car with ABL Vista Home Edition and Jesse Jackson.
Yea, brilliant move….sigh.
jl
Also, while I do not deny the racism of this incident, I hope more attention is given to the role the outrageous FL shoot a man and walk law is playing in this tragic mess. A law that the NRA and ALEC is lobbying to come to your state, no matter where you live.
And, for those interested, it does look like a black man can shoot a white man, and not be put into jail within an hour without bail. Below is a story of a black buy who shot his white neighbor over an argument about skateboard rules in front of his house.
Florida Shooting Focuses Attention on ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/florida-shooting-focuses-attention-on-stand-your-ground-law/
Now, if were a black guy, I would not assume the same rules would apply for me in Sanford. From what I have seen, looks like there are some special Sanford rules for how people are treated, and they seem to take race into account in unsavory ways.
Anyway, we can also call the FL law the Shoot or Neighbor over Bullshit and Walk law.
AxelFoley
Why am I not surprised they’d get his “black friend”™ to come to his defense?
Montysano
I know goons. I spend time with goons. Some of my best friends are goons.
Some Loser
@Daaling: I want to hurt you badly. How can you bring your stupid, racist beef with ABL into this? What the hell is your problem?
jl
A link to TYT Current page with link to a VoA segment on the FL Shoot a Man and Walk Law, and graphic in recent rise in justifiable homicide in FL. Scroll down the page until you see the graphic
http://current.com/shows/the-young-turks/blog/from-the-show-a-closer-look-at-stand-your-ground-laws-and-how-mad-men-lives-up-to-real-life-60s-office-culture
Clime Acts
I don’t know if it is more hilarious or mdisturbing that some commenters here, and at least on FP’er, have listened to the Trayvon tape “30-40” times.
Wow, obsessive much?
Get out of your basement, put on some clean undies, and take a walk in the sun.
Preferably without a hoodie, of course…
jl
Cenk Uygur gives a good discussion of role of ALEC, Koch and NRA in the FL Shoot your Neighbor over Bullshit and Walk Law.
Stand Your Ground Law States
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrvg–3PL7w&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=5&feature=plcp
There is also a clip of Uygur interviewing a gun nut advocate of Shoot a Man and Walk laws, who basically says that, yeah, he thinks he should be able to cap any dude he gets into a fight with, no questions asked. But, as he often does, Uygur shoves his foot in his mouth by going apeshit rather than engaging the gun nut rationally. So, no link.
Some Loser
Why are the Anti-ABL trolls always so especially annoying?
dance around in your bones
@Some Loser: Commenters like Daaling and Clime Acts are the reason the pie filter was invented.
Cleek updated it today for the new design, thank gawd.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
Apparently Zimmerman was a self-appointed neighborhood watch patroller, so he wouldn’t have had any kind of official ID to show.
So, again, we’re back to a teenager walking down the street at night who’s being followed by a grown man, first in his car, and then the guy gets out of his car to chase. Isn’t fighting back exactly what people tell their kids to do if a stranger tries to grab them?
lamh35
does the new site have a pie filter?
ETA: wait, nevermind. thx for posting the new link
dance around in your bones
@lamh35: Yes, it does!
Cleek’s updated pie filter here
ETA: I see you found it. I wanted to check out the edit bug anyway…here goes
ETA2: Yep, it leaves you stranded on the edit page instead of returning you to comments. That needs to be fixed, STAT. :)
Daaling
@Some Loser: Your comments have seriously bruised my massive ego, nay they have destroyed my fragile grip on reality. I mean how could anyone not be deeply touched at their very core by critical comments comming from “Some Loser”
BHAHAHAHAhahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Daaling
@dance around in your bones: ………..because who cares if it screams “irony” and shows you have narcissistic personality disorder to feel the need to announce your plan to ban someone.
wasabi gasp
Looms. Dude was buggin’ on needlepoint.
jnc
There’s some question about that. When the story blew up, there was lots of chatter about him being “self-appointed” neighborhood watch and so on. But a couple of days ago I saw a story – I apologize, no link – interviewing the person from the police department (a civilian volunteer) who sets up neighborhood watches and she described the training she gave to Zimmerman and others. Upshot of article was “This not how neighborhood watch is supposed to work.”
And I don’t know if they issue IDs or anything like that.
(There is a lot of variation, b/c the neighborhood watch volunteers where I live have police issued radios – so they don’t have to call 911 40 or 50 times like Zimmerman did.)
AxelFoley
@the Conster (f/k/a Cat Lady):
Kinda relieved I’m not the only one who thought this.
Ash Can
OK, dumb question here: Installing the pie filter is self-explanatory, but how do I add names? I’ve read and re-read all the information and dialogue boxes, but I still can’t figure it out. Help?
Ash Can
@Ash Can: OH NEVER MIND — I didn’t scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page. Duh.
Ash Can
PS: Damn, Cleek, that’s amazing. ::blows smooch::
Bruce S
I’m actually not interested in the notion that George Zimmerman is the epitome of evil, a conscious racist, etc. etc. Regardless of what’s “in his heart” this killing was a crime and clear evidence that these laws legitimate people’s worst impulses. Zimmerman was obviously obsessed with his role as amateur cop. Not in his defense, but to make a broader point, Zimmerman is symptomatic of reflexive biases that – when given legitimacy by absolutely insane laws or a culture of silence will result in evil outcomes. These incidents are too common in the case of trained police officers, much less delusional cranks wandering the streets. There’s a point at which demonizing Zimmerman as the kind of person who – without a doubt – would use racist slurs is actually a distraction from just how pervasive and potentially damaging this kind of profiling and over-reaction to one’s own paranoia actually is. I don’t know what Zimmerman said or thinks, but I know what he did thinking that somehow he was within “his rights.” Whatever these laws supporters claim, they are enabling the worst behaviors rather than attempting to control them.
Check this out – Texas, essentially the same law. Criminal acts involved…including what appears to be cold-blooded murder of a couple of burglars on the spot.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/us/13texas.html
Beyond these acts involving civilians, it’s imperative that police act not only to restrain the Zimmermans, but similar elements among their own. This isn’t an “incident.” It’s a “worst case” example of what happens too often on the part of “professionals” who have every reason to know better than a pathetic “wannabe” crank like Zimmerman.
kathy
i have a bunch of crazy raccones in my backyard!
ThomasaBeckett
I’ve listened to this over and over. he is saying “fucking punks.”