Perkins: Yeah, you know that’s a great point. Just for a moment step back and look at the implications of this, over the weekend we saw the news of the President’s Secret Service detail in Colombia and the issue of them hiring prostitutes and now the White House is outraged about that. Actually in a meeting this morning my staff asked, ‘why should the President be upset’? It was actually legal; it was legal there to do that, so why should we be upset? Well, the fact is we intuitively know it’s wrong, there’s a moral law against that.
The same is true for what the President has done to the military enforcing open homosexuality in our military. You can change the law but you can’t change the moral law that’s behind it. You can change the positive law, the law that is created by man, but you can’t change the moral law, it’s wrong. So what you have is you have a total breakdown and you can’t pick and choose. Morality is not a smorgasbord; you can’t pick what you want. I think you’re absolutely right, this is a fundamental issue going forward because if we say ‘let them do what we want,’ what’s next? You cannot maintain moral order if you are willing to allow a few things to slide.
Because gays can openly serve in the military, our morals are now so bad that we are even engaging in prostitution! No one please tell the poor dear that prostitution is “the oldest profession.”
I expect for these religious nutters like Perkins, everything they dislike for the next decade will be alternately blamed on gays in the military or Obama or both.
rlrr
Because military personal never engaged in prostitution before they let the gays serve openly…
Jesse
But I thought Colombia was one of those solidly Catholic countries in whose mold Perkins et al. are just dying to reshape the US.
pragmatism
now that teh santorum is but just a stain, tony perkins takes up the mantle of “keeper of teh slippery slope”.
Clime Acts
All I know is that I receive my morning email of directives from the Homosexual Agenda Office of Planning and Implementation just like clockwork, and all is right with the world.
Also too: Who gives a shit if SS guys hire prosties somewhere? Someday I hope for a progressive democratic party that will quit playing the right wing game by right wing rules.
butler
Because the scandal reflects poorly on the Secret Service and the United States, and because it was likely an abuse of taxpayer funds. I don’t think the morality of prositution really plays into the reasons for him being upset.
danielx
Blame it on Obama or teh ghey…how could one possibly go wrong?
twiffer
and here i thought the issue was that the president’s security detail was supposed to be, ya know, worrying about security and stuff. not fucking around.
obviously i was wrong and it was an issue of morality, not unprofessional behavior or anything.
Brachiator
i suspect that bad punditry is the second oldest profession. And whores have more honor than clowns like Perkins.
You can’t always pick what you want.
You can’t always pick what you want.
But if you try sometimes, you just might find,
You pick what you need.
Perkins is certainly cherry picking himself some “moral law.” I’m positive about that.
(With all due apologies to the Glimmer Twins.)
The Republic of Stupidity
There… more in line w/ what Perkins and his fellow fundies desperately WANT to say but doesn’t have the stones to say, at least yet…
TooManyJens
Where he goes wrong here is in thinking that his moral code is correct and complete, and everyone else is just picking and choosing from his One True Moral Code based on what they like. Whereas in reality his moral code is outdated, based on false premises, and completely unsuitable for use by beings with human psychology living in the modern world. So we’re replacing it with a (hopefully) more successful and relevant one.
The world is passing you by, Tony, and it can’t happen fast enough.
Butch
You know, between recruiting youth into the lifestyle, promoting the radical homosexual agenda, and setting aside a few minutes every day to undermine traditional marriage, I hardly have time to make supper any more, let alone comment on anything Perkins says.
fasteddie9318
Well, you know what they say: when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.
Also too, when you’re a deeply closeted gay man, everything starts to trigger thoughts of taut men fucking each other in the ass.
TooManyJens
@butler:
Also because the guys supposedly didn’t pay, which if true is kinda rapey.
Just Some Fuckhead
Gay people made me late for work today and screwed up one of my reports.
Just Some Fuckhead
So enough about gay people. Let’s talk about Tony Perkins, top or bottom?
Rommie
I didn’t know the military is enforcing open homosexuality. I just picture Drill Sergeants enforcing things to recruits.
IOW, really? And please, go right ahead and fire up a morality challenge, you can’t possibly lose!
Arm The Homeless
Perhaps it’s because I am a godless heathen, or the fact that I don’t spend a lot of time at Huddle House, but who the fuck says this shit in public and doesn’t actually get boo’d?
What sort of bubble do you have to put yourself into to be able to accomplish this amazing volume of denial? It almost seems as if his positions depend on who is paying him at the moment.
MattF
I do wonder if Perkins, now and then, thinks back to the days of yore when those lesser races knew their places. As well as the lesser sexes, the lesser religions, the lesser civilizations, the lesser classes, et cetera.
geg6
This guy is the biggest dipshit around. I’m sure the White House doesn’t give a shit about the morality of young men hiring hookers for a bit of fun. What they are more upset about is that this sort of behavior puts the president and the nation in danger from soldiers and agents being compromised and, thus, vulnerable to blackmail, in addition to being completely unprofessional and being distracted from their primary job of security. Which, come to think of it, is exactly what DADT did to gay military members. Which is probably why this jackass insists on making the argument about morality.
I hate these people. No snark or hyperbole. I HATE them.
Hunter Gathers
Gay people stole my bike.
Clime Acts
@butler:
Says who? You are playing the right wing game with the right wing rules. Congratulations.
You know, Obama could have chosen to just allow the investigation to proceed without making any comment whatsoever, just as a responsible, mature executive would do.
Constantly bending to right wing memes…
Shari
@TooManyJens:
If that one guy would have paid, we never would have heard about this. Instead, we might have heard about what happened at the Conference.
Or seen pictures of Pres Obama checking out Shakira’s ass:
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2012/04/17/the-cuervo-gold-the-fine-columbian/
Clime Acts
@twiffer:
What? These guys can’t even get their rocks off when they’re off the SS clock?
Arm The Homeless
@Just Some Fuckhead: Total top. I am sure he loves to be the Dom. I also firmly believe he has an entire walk-in closet filled with dildos shaped like crucifixes.
I know he owns at least one of these. With.Out.Doubt
Chris
Since when is the secret service scandal a moral issue, and not an intelligence/security issue? These guys compromised their top secret clearances by putting themselves into a position of being honeytrapped or blackmailed and possibly endangering the president at some point.
butler
@TooManyJens: That too. It’s not actually “legal” if the customer doesn’t pay.
Cassidy
The bigger issue is that they brought the prostitutes into an already secure site. That was a major breach of security. Some things you just can’t do.
Jay C
Might it not ever (or ever have) occurred to Mr. Perkins that President Obama might be “upset” at the SS for reason unrelated to either “legality”, or his blinkered version of “morality”? Like, maybe, Presidential protection? Or embarrassment for one of the US’ major security agencies?
Nahh, easier to just blame everything on Teh Gheys – a one-size-fits-all excuse? What’s next? Blaming the recent Midwest tornadoes on The Homosexual Agenda??
Satanicpanic
@geg6: No kidding- no country in the world has ever thought to hire spies to impersonate hookers. Not to mention the fact that just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s something the administration wants to be known for.
Steve in DC
@Chris
Screwing hookers is actually totally OK with security clearances provided it’s with legal hookers. How else do you think anybody in the Navy still has a security clearance.
Ash Can
This Perkins guy sure spends a lot of time thinking about teh ghey…
pragmatism
@Just Some Fuckhead:
he’s a middle. the meat in the sammich. because you can’t pick and choose.
Rev. Dada Grind
Why would Perkins have a problem?
That behavior’s Biblical!
Joshua 2:1 – And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot’s house, named Rahab, and lodged there.
MikeJ
@Cassidy:
And then got in a shouting match in the hallway after he refused to pay her. Morality doesn’t enter into it. It’s just stupid.
RalfW
And of course talking about the gays means Perkins doesn’t have the time to utter one peep about the poor.
And, really, in the utterly amoral and twisted modern, erm, christianity he and his ilk practice, the poor deserve their suffering. It’s so cruel it seems almost inhuman.
Sometimes I think La Bachmann is right: the Devil is among us.
But he’s crawled up Tony’s butt and is running him like Lamb Chop.
butler
Says me. I think it reflects poorly on my country when representatives of my country break the law and/or commit assault while at the same time potentially compromising their mission to protect the President.
Now who’s bending to right wing memes? Sounds exactly like Newt or Victor Davis Hanson’s response to Obama’s measured, sympathetic comment on the Trayvon Martin affair. The only thing Obama’s has done so far is comment that the investigation would be ongoing and he would evaluate it when it was done. Sounds pretty responsible to me.
Keith G
@Just Some Fuckhead: A poppers queen.
Comrade Dread
Actually, you can.
We do that quite frequently. Lying is generally wrong, but it is not illegal unless you’re under sworn oath in legal or political settings.
Mind altering chemicals are generally illegal. Except for alcohol and those requiring a prescription. Coffee. Cigarettes.
We draw lines in the law all the time.
So yes, a nation can say gays are legal and accorded the same status and rights as any other person, but still have laws, requirements, or mandates against fraternization, engaging in prostitution, sexual harassment, and having sex while on the clock.
Not a difficult concept.
Brachiator
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Somewhere there is a school kid getting ready to use this new lame excuse:
A ghey ate my homework.
Clime Acts
@butler:
You’re incorrect. Google is our friend.
eyelessgame
The reason for the outrage is that using prostitutes is something that a Secret Service agent might want to keep secret. And he might want to keep it secret strongly enough that he could be persuaded to compromise his job responsibilities in order for it to be kept secret.
(One might potentially argue that it is also unacceptable for a SS agent to be a closeted gay or lesbian individual. Or have any other secret behavior that is reasonably likely to be leverage for compromising his/her integrity.)
And that was one of the best reasons for ending Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. If your professional status is not jeopardized by revelation of your sexuality, potential enemies who learn this fact about you no longer have leverage over you.
Brachiator
@Clime Acts:
Bullshit. Had Obama said nothing, Darrel “Can we impeach now?” Issa and other GOP goons would be asking, “Why doesn’t the president saying anything? What’s he hiding?”
As it is, we have the inevitable, “a weak, unready president Obama is commenting when he shouldn’t.”
Bullshit.
butler
@Clime Acts:
Searching… Searching…
Where’s the outrageous statement?
Chyron HR
@Clime Acts:
What, like “Kill the bill”?
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
No, it’s just a branch of the oldest. If you don’t think those pundits are being paid off somehow for their shilling, I have a friend in Nigeria with a once in a lifetime business opportunity he’d love to share with you.
RalfW
@Comrade Dread:
Well, Tony can’t pick and choose, so he engages in that classic white, male, conservative specialty of projecting his own problem* on everyone else.
.
*To be clear, being gay isn’t a problem. Unless you grew up conservative, winger Xtian and have staked your career and life on hating on it. That’s the problem.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Is there a black-gay-jewish-woman I can vote for in 2016?
Cassidy
@MikeJ: Also they were the advance team for the Presidential Detail; the pinnacle of SS careers.
gaz
You know what, Stuart, I LIKE YOU. You’re not like the other
people, here, in the trailer park.
Oh, don’t go get me wrong. They’re fine people, they’re
good Americans. But they’re content to sit back, maybe
watch a little Mork and Mindy on channel 57, maybe kick
back a cool, Coors 16-ouncer. They’re good, fine people,
Stuart. But they don’t know … what the queers are doing
to the soil!
read MOAR…
pragmatism
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): whoopi goldberg
twiffer
@butler: and because it’s essentially a security breach too.
butler
@twiffer: Yup. Very bad show by the Secret Service.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore: RE: i suspect that bad punditry is the second oldest profession.
Prostitutes at least provide a service for a price.
The worse pundits, it’s not even a dry hump.
Amir Khalid
If I recall, it was mentioned in the New York Times that the Secret Service is investigating this incident not out of prudishness, but because it might involve violations of Secret Service regs, which forbid consorting with prostitutes whether or not it’s legal in a given place. And the US military is investigating its personnel’s involvement in this for the same reason.
Tony Perkins’ staffer was apparently not aware of this fact.
Tonybrown74
@pragmatism:
Not gay …
gbear
@Clime Acts:
And links to sources are your credibility. I notice you haven’t supplied one link. You’ve got nothing.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Only if you assume the paying customer is the reader or viewer. The real customer of the bad pundits is their wealthy patron, who is buying a veneer of respectability for ideas that people would reject if they were coming from their true source.
butler
@Amir Khalid:
I’d bet he knew. Whether he knew or not, he didn’t care. Don’t let facts get in the way of a good scolding.
Tonal Crow
I’ve read and re-read the 9th Commandment:
and I just don’t see the exemption that these wingers keep invoking with their lies about liberals, gays, feminists, Obama, et al. Can someone help me out with a better explanation than “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “IOKIYAR”?
Tonybrown74
@Brachiator:
Indeed.
A better comparison would be to a drug pusher. The put themselves out there for free in the hopes that one might pay for it next time.
Except. what does one do when there are 50 other people trying to push the same shitty “product” for free?
lacp
About time Mr. Perkins got fitted for his double wetsuit with accessorized dildo.
ed
I believe in Usuary being agains the moral laws. Lets tag the bankers first, before we get to the prostitutes.
Roger Moore
@Tonal Crow:
It’s an in-group/out-group thing. Bearing false witness is only wrong when it’s against your neighbor. Since they don’t see liberals, gays, feminists, the President, etc. as part of their community, they aren’t neighbors and it’s fine to lie about them. Remember, these are the same people who believe that Matthew 25:40 means it’s only necessary to be good to other Christians.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Chris:
This. Back when I was an Intel Officer and had clearances up to my eyeballs, marital fidelity was a question and something that was investigated both when getting a clearance and when keeping one. If any of these guys was married and availed himself of the services of a working girl, right there he compromised his clearance.
Even if you’re not married, it’s considered an illegal activity here in the USofA. If it’s legal there, makes no difference in the mind of the clearance regulations. A parallel would be illicit drug usage. Can’t have a top secret clearance and like to smoke dope. Oh, you’re on travel in Amsterdam where it’s legal to smoke dope? Doesn’t matter.
So, this isn’t a morale issue, it’s a security issue. These guys were morans. I was in plenty of foreeen countries in situations where “services” were being offered. Nobody ever availed themselves of that because of the potential consequences.
Villago Delenda Est
If they won’t fuck, they won’t fight.
Which explains the chickenhawk status of scum like Tony Perkins.
mdblanche
@Shari: Now you’re just being silly. As if the media was ever going to report on something as un-horse-racey as a diplomatic conference.
catclub
@ed: “I believe in Usuary being agains the moral laws.”
How about penalties for usury that require an ossuary?
Captain Goto
@gaz: I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Hawes
Who are these people on Tony Perkin’s staff saying that there is no scandal? I happen to believe there’s no scandal, because there has been transparency and accountability. Lawbreaking isn’t “scandal”. Official misuse of power – like cover-ups – is scandal.
It’s a “scandal” in the Victorian sense of the word. These agents behaved immorally (not even illegally) and compromised their position as Agents. But as they are being held accountable, then I don’t see the “scandal”.
But these “staffers” of Tony Perkins are obviously made of straw. I can’t imagine anyone who works for Tony Perkins making this argument.
Joey Maloney
@Arm The Homeless: See, I had him pegged (NPI) for one of these.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Only a parvenu would care about the thin veneer of respectability. After a while, the truly venal corrupt understand that they can immunize themselves against almost anything.
Yeah, I’m that cynical.
@Tonybrown74:
I can go with this. Conservative pundits and Fuax News are pushing a drug more powerful than opium, the sweet delusion that the wealthy will give the suckers an even break, and the lulling lie that all the nation’s problems spring from The Other, and the narcotic dream that there is a Real America to be restored in which rigid authoritarianism and political orthodoxy, and the stern use of force, will guarantee peace and prosperity.
Calouste
@Tonal Crow:
Do you think good Christians live next door to liberals, gays, feminists, Obama, et al?
Roger Moore
@Hawes:
I would disagree mildly. I think lawbreaking by government officials is scandalous. But that still means the scandal is limited to the Secret Service agents and soldiers involved in actual lawbreaking. As long as their superiors do their duty and investigate the incident thoroughly, they can keep the scandal limited to the lowest level. It’s only when the higher-ups try to cover things up that the scandal spreads beyond the direct perpetrators.
What Perkins and his ilk are trying to do is to muddy the distinction between the scandalous behavior of the actual perpetrators and the proper behavior of their supervisors up to the President. Fortunately, I think everyone but the 27%ers are still capable of making the distinction.
gaz
@Captain Goto: Just go get some old dead milkmen albums, you uncultured fuck ;)
gex
@Brachiator: They also give those inclined towards shallow thinking the pleasant high of righteous indignation. Seriously. It is psychologically addicting for them to keep believing minorities, immigrants, gays, etc. are terrible and do terrible things to them. They are fucking junkies for that righteous indignation.
gex
@gex: It’s the addiction that keeps them from dealing with their own problems, more specifically. I’m guessing shitty 3.2 beer and hating on gays can get you through most insecurities if you work it hard enough.
twiffer
@Tonal Crow: the 10 commandments are like the bill of rights. only the first 2 matter, and only some of the time at that. and only applicable to the chosen.
lawguy
@TooManyJens: So it isn’t a sex scandle at all, but rather a contract dispute?
lawguy
@Amir Khalid: When did consorting with prostitutes become a problem for the U.S. Military? When I was in Southeast Asia in the last century that was the only recreation we got. Well that and drinking. Well those and smoking weed. But otherwise we didn’t do anything but work and those few things.
I now see why we lost. Because we gave baby jesus a sad.
uptown
Because they were an advanced security detail for the Pres. and they put themselves in a situation that could have easily been a setup by folks who wanted to learn about those security arrangements.
Amir Khalid
@lawguy:
The NYT story I saw the other day said the military personnel are suspected of violating curfew, an offense which — per the reporter’s explanation — includes having wimminz in one’s room after hours. I’m aware that off-duty GIs are not prosecuted under the UCMJ when they go out whoring, but these guys were in Colombia on duty.
mac
It’s not Obama’s fault: all the blame still accrues to Bill and Hill Clinton. Also: Jimmy Carter!