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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Pierce on Douthat

Pierce on Douthat

by John Cole|  April 25, 201211:43 am| 80 Comments

This post is in: Excellent Links, Religious Nuts 2

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This entire piece is great, but may I suggest that this might be one of my favorite paragraphs Pierce has ever written:

Ross Douthat is a very sincere young man who writes a column for the New York Times, and someone who, alas, usually makes David Brooks read like Richard Brautigan, albeit with one memorable exception. Like many people who were born too late to have lived through the sixties, young master Douthat pretty much blames that decade for fashioning the handbasket in which his beloved America is currently en route to Hell. This is usually an occasion for a screed about drugs, and Beatles music, and sexytime outside of clerically-approved limits, and long hair, and George McGovern, and bra-burning, and the New Black Panthers and the assorted other denizens of the unruly — and largely imaginary — menagerie that offend the modern conservative intellect. However, Ross has a new book in which he describes yet another American institution that went bad at about half-past Pet Sounds — the Christian religion.

I’m still chuckling at half-past Pet Sounds. Plus, a Brautigan reference!

At any rate, as they say, read the whole thing. The Lost in Space reference is also genius.

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Reader Interactions

80Comments

  1. 1.

    rlrr

    April 25, 2012 at 11:46 am

    How did Douthat get a gig at the NYT?

  2. 2.

    gaz

    April 25, 2012 at 11:48 am

    It sort of pisses me off that you guys haven’t put him in the blogroll, at least last time I checked – I don’t use your blogroll section, primarily because of that. I read pierce all the time. Clearly, the BJ FP’ers do, too. You should really really consider fixing that.

  3. 3.

    General Stuck

    April 25, 2012 at 11:50 am

    @rlrr:

    How did Douthat get a gig at the NYT?

    He farted the sound track from Love Story. Like all the rest of them.

  4. 4.

    dr. bloor

    April 25, 2012 at 11:51 am

    One can only hope that Douchehat keeps his streak of failing upward alive, and lands a gig with a funny hat and Prada shoes in the Vatican. He and the ghost of Sixtus V can have long chats about how everything has gone to hell.

  5. 5.

    ricky

    April 25, 2012 at 11:53 am

    You do know that snarky pop culture references, while satisfying to those readers, viewers and listeners who get them, are often a tell tale indicator that the perpetrator is about to fall vitim to Dennis Miller Syndrome.

  6. 6.

    Hill Dweller

    April 25, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Pierce’s evisceration of Kathleen Parker(Fleischer, Bush and Perino also, too) this morning was just as entertaining.

  7. 7.

    Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor

    April 25, 2012 at 11:55 am

    @rlrr:

    How did Douthat get a gig at the NYT?

    Harvard grad.

  8. 8.

    c u n d gulag

    April 25, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Taibbi is terrific, but Pierce is the best and funniest Liberal (or any other, for that matter) political writer since Hunter S. Thompson in his hey-day.

    And I can think of no higher praise.

  9. 9.

    kindness

    April 25, 2012 at 11:56 am

    The referral Charles gives to the TNR review is great too.

  10. 10.

    mainmati

    April 25, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Trout Fishing in America, one of the classic books of American poetry. Ah, Richard, you left us way too early. Yes, a great piece and thanks for sharing.

  11. 11.

    Brachiator

    April 25, 2012 at 11:58 am

    @rlrr:

    How did Douthat get a gig at the NYT?

    The faux meritocracy of a Harvard degree and crony insider friends.

  12. 12.

    The Other Chuck

    April 25, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    @ricky: I thought Dennis Miller Syndrome was about “pop culture” references being pretentious academic historical references delivered in drawly grade-school sarcasm, while the audience hoots and laughs to cover its understandable ignorance on the subject

    “Yeah it’s like the Tenebrists said about Caravaggio, we know Mike more than Mike, right? [LIGHT LAUGHTER SIGN]”

  13. 13.

    Martin

    April 25, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    @Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor: And Catholic. The NYT is still NYCs local paper – and you’ve got to represent the Catholics. Doubthat is the perfect blend for the NYT – they can check off the educated, Catholic, and so-called adult Republican checkboxes, and having been vetted at the very liberal Atlantic didn’t hurt.

  14. 14.

    JustMe

    April 25, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    This totally applies to Rod Dreher, as well– a writer who blames the 60s for everything and at the same time fashions himself as a campus conservative where it’s forever 1990 and he’s fighting against “political correctness.”

  15. 15.

    WereBear

    April 25, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    I actually saw Douthat on the Bill Maher show. Seems awfully young for a pundit gig; and then he opens his mouth, and you realize he is way too immature to be, well, let out.

  16. 16.

    Garbo

    April 25, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    OT, but this made me LOL so hard:

    Said Carter: “I’d rather have a Democrat but I would be comfortable — I think Romney has shown in the past, in his previous years as a moderate or progressive… that he was fairly competent as a governor and also running the Olympics as you know. He’s a good solid family man and so forth, he’s gone to the extreme right wing positions on some very important issues in order to get the nomination. What he’ll do in the general election, what he’ll do as president I think is different.”

    Way to stick the shiv in, Jim-Bone.

  17. 17.

    Steve

    April 25, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    I have no idea who Richard Brautigan is. Y’all are too highbrow for me.

  18. 18.

    dedc79

    April 25, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Did you all know that it was Christianity that brought african americans civil rights? Christianity had nothing to do, however, with enslaving them in the first place or denying them civil rights for a century afterwards. This is the gospel truth, according to Douthat.

  19. 19.

    satby

    April 25, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    That wasn’t religion. It was ward-heeling with incense.

    I LOL’d at this one. The entire thing is awesome, with a topping of awesome sauce.

  20. 20.

    Steeplejack

    April 25, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Brautigan!

    In watermelon sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar. I’ll tell you about it because I am here and you are distant.

    Okay, not exactly “Call me Ishmael” or “A screaming comes across the sky,” but still pretty cool in a retro-hippie way.

    Need to put some Brautigan on the Nook. (Although I loved the hippie photographs on the covers of the old paperbacks.)

    P.S. For first-timers I recommend Trout Fishing in America or A Confederate General from Big Sur.

  21. 21.

    Forum Transmitted Disease

    April 25, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    drugs, and Beatles music, and sexytime outside of clerically-approved limits, and long hair, and George McGovern, and bra-burning, and the New Black Panthers

    I see the problem. The very things that give Douchebag a rash are all the necessary components of a really good party. Or a really fun life.

    He’s just another Calvinist, just like they all are.

  22. 22.

    Uncle Cosmo

    April 25, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Pierce leaves the killshot for the ending:

    [Asshat]’s yearning for a Catholic Christianity triumphant, the one that existed long before he was born, the Catholicism of meatless Fridays, one parish, and no singing with the Methodists. I lived those days, Ross. That wasn’t religion. It was ward-heeling with incense.

    I lived those days too–until I sat through one too many sermons shilling for cash for the new-school fund & dropped out about 6 weeks after confirmation.

  23. 23.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 25, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    @Brachiator:

    The only thing that Douchehat is remotely qualified for is asking people if they want fries with that.

  24. 24.

    General Stuck

    April 25, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    @Steve:

    I have no idea who Richard Brautigan is. Y’all are too highbrow for me.

    Me neither. But have learned to fake it, I just stroke my chin and say, “Ah, Bach”

  25. 25.

    West of the Cascades

    April 25, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    PLEASE add Pierce to the Blogroll!! This is my single source for snark (via the front pagers, comments, and links to other blogs), and half the time I’m too lazy to enter other URLs or click on other bookmarked sites. Also, Pierce links here (sort of – last I looked it was “Balloon Juiice” but it directed here).

  26. 26.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 25, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    And it is a brilliant killshot. Precisely on the money.

    So to speak.

  27. 27.

    mainmati

    April 25, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    @Steve: Sixties poet. Brautigan’s poetry was not highbrow, say, like T.S. Eliot. It was funny, earthy and sensual. You might want to try it sometime.

  28. 28.

    gaz

    April 25, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    @West of the Cascades: co-fucking-signed.

    cheers.

  29. 29.

    Steve

    April 25, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Here’s the latest evidence that the culture wars are not over.

  30. 30.

    gaz

    April 25, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    @mainmati:

    Brautigan’s poetry was not highbrow

    Wait, he wrote dirty limericks?

    ETA: Anyone that can say with a straight face that any poetry is not by definition high-brow, is probably an effete elitist artsy snob. And a coastal liberal. /snark

  31. 31.

    Steeplejack

    April 25, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    @Steve:

    Quintessential hippie poet.

  32. 32.

    Sly

    April 25, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    He gives the game away right at the outset when he decides that American religious history will begin in or around 1950, which Douthat sees as the high-water mark of mainstream Christian consensus in America and of its (largely beneficial) influence on the country. This enables the assumption that American religious history had always been moving toward that consensus.

    Funny how that happens.

  33. 33.

    Martin

    April 25, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    @Forum Transmitted Disease:

    The very things that give Douchebag a rash are all the necessary components of a really good party. Or a really fun life.

    As if you shouldn’t have already gleaned that from his Chunky Reese Witherspoon confession.

  34. 34.

    General Stuck

    April 25, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    @Steve:

    Yogurt can be a deadly weapon, sweetened with aspartame at very high velocity.

  35. 35.

    WereBear

    April 25, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    My golly, I love this man’s writing:

    Simply put, Elaine Pagels has forgotten more about the events surrounding the founding of Christianity, including the spectacular multiplicity of sects that exploded in the deserts of the Middle East at the same time, than Ross Douthat will ever know, and to lump her work in with the popular fiction of The Da Vinci Code is to attempt to blame Galileo for Lost in Space.

    Like I always say, if someone cannot expand their mind to encompass the divine; they shrink the divine until they can.

  36. 36.

    Martin

    April 25, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    @Sly: In short, Douthat believes that television is the most accurate lens through which to view American history and politics – including those events that predate television.

  37. 37.

    Nylund

    April 25, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    The Times has long been a punching bag for the right. I think they’re naive enough to think they can end this fact through appeasement and abdication by giving the Right access to their prime newspaper real estate. I’d wager that their criteria was something along these lines:

    1. Politically Conservative
    2. Highly Religious
    3. Not crazy
    4. Not racist
    5. Ivy League Credentials

    It’s probably pretty hard to find ANYONE who meets criteria 1 and 2 without violating 3 and 4. Throw in number 5 and it’s even tougher. Maybe the likes of Andrew Sullivan might meet them all, but his views on gay rights, Palin, etc. might violate number 1, and some may argue that his love of The Bell Curve presents problems with number 4.

    My guess is that out of all the people who meet that list, Douthat was also likely the one they could pay the least.

  38. 38.

    gaz

    April 25, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    @WereBear:

    if someone cannot expand their mind to encompass the divine; they shrink the divine until they can.

    ZOMG I’m soooo mugging you and taking this now. =)

    cheers

  39. 39.

    Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor

    April 25, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    @Martin:
    I can believe this. But Douchehat’s a convert, isn’t he?

    As someone who was raised in the faith and was once quite religious(*), can I just say that I just don’t trust anyone who converts to Catholicism? I suppose that makes me a bigot, but I never claimed to be perfect.

    (*) [Fun Fact: From the ages of 10-12 I was semi-seriously considering the priesthood. Puberty –and the computer that I got for xmas back in 1981– put the kibosh on that little notion pretty quickly].

  40. 40.

    gaz

    April 25, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    @Nylund: no making me LOL while I’m still drinking coffee. You made a very astute observation about the NYT, and followed it with a beautiful punchline. Well Played, Sir. =) Cheers.

  41. 41.

    gaz

    April 25, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    @Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor:

    [Fun Fact: From the ages of 10-12 I was semi-seriously considering the priesthood. Puberty—and the computer that I got for xmas back in 1981—put the kibosh on that little notion pretty quickly].

    LOL.

    Fun Fact: My wife studied CompSci in college before switching her major to religious studies. I still can’t wrap my head around that exactly, but she’s not Catholic, so there’s that =)

  42. 42.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 25, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    I read the title as “Piece of Douthat” which works quite well.

  43. 43.

    PWL

    April 25, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Frankly, since this is no longer a “Christian nation” (and never was), but also a Jewish,Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, etc, etc,and yes–atheist–nation, I’m tired of of schmucks like Douthat who proclaim all of America must abide by the tenets of Corporate Catholicism.

    Besides, who would want to return to the Eisenhower era? One of the most boring, repressed periods in American history. Totally why the Sixties happened.

  44. 44.

    Persia

    April 25, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Even speaking through Mark Lilla, it takes no little chutzpah for a New York Times op-ed golden child to imply that someone of Pagels’s obvious accomplishments is a “half-educated evangelical guru.”

    I knew I loved this guy.

  45. 45.

    danielx

    April 25, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    This is usually an occasion for a screed about drugs, and Beatles music, and sexytime outside of clerically-approved limits, and long hair, and George McGovern, and bra-burning, and the New Black Panthers and the assorted other denizens of the unruly — and largely imaginary — menagerie that offend the modern conservative intellect.

    To which I add, modern medicine, motor transport and the heliocentric theory. Douchehat’s only problems with the 1400s are the Renaissance, the Reformation, and the fact that the Gutenberg press as the sole medium for dissemination of his bullshit would be SO tiresome.

  46. 46.

    Persia

    April 25, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    From the TNR review:

    “A chart of the American religious past would look like a vast delta, with tributaries, streams, and channels winding in and out, diverging and reconverging—but all of them fed, ultimately, by a central stream, an original current, a place where the waters start. This river is Christian orthodoxy.”

    For fuck’s sake, Ross, people who didn’t give a shit about your God were here long before any ‘central stream’ showed up with guns and germs.

  47. 47.

    sublime33

    April 25, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Is Pet Sounds the most overrated album in Rock and Roll history? I am a huge music enthusiast and went to college in the mid 70’s. I must have scanned hundreds of people’s music collections and I think this album came up two times, because I purposefully looked for it. To be influential, shouldn’t people outside of the music critics inner circle have owned the album? It may have been innovative, but so was a lot of early Pink Floyd material and nobody bought that either.

  48. 48.

    WereBear

    April 25, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    @gaz: You are welcome!

  49. 49.

    cckids

    April 25, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    @Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor:

    As someone who was raised in the faith and was once quite religious(*), can I just say that I just don’t trust anyone who converts to Catholicism?

    Amen, from another raised in the church. Same goes for Mormonism–last year I met a woman who’d converted to the LDS as a 30-year old adult female. Now every time I’m around her I can’t help wondering FFS, WHY???

  50. 50.

    bootsy

    April 25, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    @PWL: You believe that wicked Thomas Jefferson who said that America was not founded in any way on the Christian religion, over a true founding father like Ross Douthat? The mind reels.

    (I don’t want to spread scurrilous rumours, but I heard somewhere that Jefferson was a scientist. Also.)

  51. 51.

    Persia

    April 25, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    @sublime33: Sublime, you’re underestimating the impact it made on the producers who made the records you’d listen to for the next forty years plus. It sounds less groundbreaking to you because so many of the things they did (especially the levels of multitrack recording) are so familiar now.

  52. 52.

    Paul in KY

    April 25, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    @sublime33: The ‘White Album’ is also overrated and ‘Piper at the Gates of Dawn’ is a piece of crap. Anything done by Captain Beefheart is dreck.

  53. 53.

    Paul in KY

    April 25, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    @cckids: Ask her if it was because of their strong stance on women’s issues.

  54. 54.

    Forum Transmitted Disease

    April 25, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    As if you shouldn’t have already gleaned that from his Chunky Reese Witherspoon confession.

    @Martin: I did. Reese with a few extra pounds? I’d have been on that like white on rice and ridden her til the dawn, bought her breakfast and given her a farewell slap on the backside.

    He walked away.

    Calvinist to the core. What a hellish, rotten existence.

  55. 55.

    Paul in KY

    April 25, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    @Persia: That is a very good point about ‘Pet Sounds’.

  56. 56.

    sublime33

    April 25, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    @Persia: Fair point, but the single “Good Vibrations” was recorded during the same Pet Sounds sessions and was a massive hit – and wasn’t included on the album. That single should get more of the glory than it does, and less should go to the album with the rest of the material recorded.

  57. 57.

    bago

    April 25, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Cheesus de kristos, as someone who is only in their mid thirties, this whole “references from the 60’s and 70’s” thing has jumped the shark.

  58. 58.

    sublime33

    April 25, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    @Paul in KY: Agreed on all of the above. The White Album had some fine cuts, but Revolution #9 was one of the greatest wastes of vinyl in ecological history.

  59. 59.

    Trinity

    April 25, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Charlie Pierce is an american treasure.

  60. 60.

    Paul in KY

    April 25, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    @sublime33: Going to see them at Bonnaroo. They damn well better play Good Vibrations & if they play that damned Kokomo song, I’m booing the crap out of them.

  61. 61.

    Paul in KY

    April 25, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    @sublime33: I did listen to song backwards (something you can’t do with CDs) and there is some interesting sounds/words in there. Sort of spooky.

    The song played the usual way is a waste of space, IMO.

  62. 62.

    Tommy D

    April 25, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    @Steve: so do you also not know about Google?

  63. 63.

    Barbara

    April 25, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    @General Stuck:

    Richard Brautigan is the “essential” author for the 1960s, writing short, epigrammatic novels that “capture” the essence of the life of those who saw themselves as part of the emerging hippie ethos. I read “In Watermelon Sugar” and “The Abortion” when I was in high school. I didn’t get it, but apparently if I had been born 5-10 years earlier it all would have made sense.

    He later committed suicide.

  64. 64.

    Steve

    April 25, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    @Tommy D: Wouldn’t change the fact that I’ve never heard of him.

  65. 65.

    TooManyJens

    April 25, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    @Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor:

    As someone who was raised in the faith and was once quite religious(*), can I just say that I just don’t trust anyone who converts to Catholicism?

    ::shrug:: My mom converted, not long after my dad’s quadruple-bypass scare (my Dad is a lifelong Catholic, and my siblings and I were raised that way). Didn’t seem to change her much, at least outwardly.

  66. 66.

    jake the snake

    April 25, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    Trout Fishing in America is oustanding. A friend of mine called it a series of essays on freedom.

    Watermelon Sugar and Confederate General are readable, most everything else of his I’ve read is crap.

  67. 67.

    Felinious Wench

    April 25, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    I would love to see Douthat and Elaine Pagels in a discussion of early Christianity and the relevance of the historical texts. Her books are what led me down the path of historical study of my faith, and I will forever be indebted to her for that. Opened my eyes to the many problems with current church dogma. Was a relief I wasn’t the only one.

  68. 68.

    handsmile

    April 25, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    @Felinious Wench:

    Myself, I would hope that Elaine Pagels would never agree to appear with Douthat to discuss this topic. Her own brilliant and path-braking scholarship would only be demeaned by association with his journalistic gruel.

    Also, having attended several events at which Pagels was the sole speaker or panelist, she is far too measured and circumspect to treat charlatans like Douthat with the contempt and derision that a political satirist like Charles Pierce can so devastatingly wield.

    However, in the grubby world of book publishing, their respective recent books may be deemed as a providential opportunity for such a pairing.

  69. 69.

    joel hanes

    April 25, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    The Memoirs of Jesse James

    I remember all those thousands of hours
    that I spent in grade school watching the clock,
    waiting for recess or lunch or to go home.
    Waiting: for anything but school.
    My teachers could easily have ridden with Jesse James
    for all the time they stole from me.

    Richard Brautigan

  70. 70.

    LanceThruster

    April 25, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    @WereBear: The saddest thing about that episode was that panelist Thomas Frank (author “What’s Wrong With Kansas?” & “Pity The Billionaire”) was woefully quiet. I saw him on C-SPAN Book Talk masterfully deconstructing Reich Wing economic policies throughout recent US history. I was hoping for a little taste of that on Maher.

    Instead, we got the smug blather of Boehner-colored Todd Bucholz. Never heard of this smarmy unfunny douche before and hope to never encounter him again.

  71. 71.

    John M. Burt

    April 25, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    @West of the Cascades: Yeah, if you’re not up for a Richard Brautigan reference, you can at least make a M*A*S*H reference.

  72. 72.

    gelfling545

    April 25, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    @gaz: I, too have tucked it away in my little velvet bag of snappy remarks.

  73. 73.

    Randy P

    April 25, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    I was just reading about Elaine Pagels, so this commentary piqued my interest. The New Yorker reviewed a new book of hers in which she argues that the Book of Revelation, far from being prophecy, is actually political satire about the 1st Centruy church. And furthermore, that it’s anti-Christian, espousing the point of view that the Jesus movement should remain within Judaism.

    I imagine this viewpoint doesn’t go over with “Left Behind” fans.

  74. 74.

    LanceThruster

    April 25, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    @WereBear:

    I like that phrasing. As an atheist, I find this in a somewhat similar vein.

    “If your god hates the same things you hate, it’s probably not real.”

  75. 75.

    The Golux

    April 25, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    @West of the Cascades: Using Firefox, if I type “Pie” in the address bar, Charlie Pierce’s blog is the first thing in the dropdown list. You hardly need links (or bookmarks) anymore.

  76. 76.

    General Stuck

    April 25, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    @Barbara:

    Back in the day, I used to read leaves of grass, the Mary Jane edition.

  77. 77.

    tones

    April 25, 2012 at 5:01 pm

    Charles Pierce’s piece was magnificent, but only served to remind me of how frustrating it was to see this idiot on Bill Moyers’ show.

    It seemed like even Bill was getting flustered with doubt-hat’s reflexive instinct to avoid answering questions with anything other than : “but both sides do it the exact same”.
    Blarg!

  78. 78.

    Mnemosyne

    April 25, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    @WereBear:

    Or, as Anne Lamott put it, “You can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”

  79. 79.

    LanceThruster

    April 25, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I like it!

  80. 80.

    Chet

    April 25, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    @General Stuck: I would consider that horse-and-buggy thinking.

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