President Obama Comes Out… in favor of gay marriage! by Imani Gandy (ABL)| May 9, 20123:05 pm| 481 CommentsThis post is in: Gay Rights are Human Rights, Open ThreadsFacebookTweetEmailJust announced on ABC. video platform video management video solutions video player Open Thread.
Video from ABC.
What a shame — he’ll lose the religious bigot vote.
Romney is playing with his..etch a sketch..fast and furiously.
Where’s the goal post moving next?
I hope the gays Money Bomb as well as they Glitter Bomb.
I know he just got my heterosexually tainted $100. BALLS!
John Arbuthnot Fisher
Everyone thinks Biden’s comments were somehow unexpected, unplanned, a gaffe of some sort. Just paved the way for this announcement, and this will be a non-issue a lot sooner than people think.
This is especially true considering everyone knew Obama, Biden, et al supported marriage equality all along, and the people who didn’t know and will be pissed off are not voting for Obama anyway.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Obama just lost all the votes of people who were never going to vote for him…
Culture of Truth
@Nellcote: re goalposts, the Democrats are supposed to move the Convention or it means nothing, so I’m hearing.
Category 5 Wingnut Hurricane Incoming!
But seriously, even though it was assumed that he believed this all along, the immediate galvanization I’ve seen among my LGBT friends (and my age cohort) is going to mean big things as far as volunteers and donors this summer.
Leaders take bold stands. Mitt Romney tells bold fables.
Davis X. Machina
He doesn’t mean it. You can tell. And not a single mention of the public option.
@rlrr: Obama just lost all the votes of people who were never going to vote for him…
Including the emoprogs who are about to say he did this unforgivably late.
How long before Mitt takes credit for this one too?
Great. Meth-addled crackers with “Sarah!” stickers on their rotting jalopies won’t vote for the Kenyan now.
Culture of Truth
@Davis X. Machina: The head of Goldman Sachs favors gay marriage. Need I say more?
And no, this would not have moved the needle in NC had he said it before yesterday. But its still good that he said it.
The “Defense Against Marriage Act.” Subtle.
@Davis X. Machina: Words, Davis. They’re all just words.
Also, legislative accomplishments. But beyond that – just words!
$25 today on top of my monthly donation.
Thank you, Mr. President!
I think that’s the plan. See, if all the wingnuts die of exploded heads between now and November, life will be much easier for the rest of us…
The blowout in NC made this possible.
The President decided he would rather stand on principle than bow down to the religious bigots..
Dana Milbank has a good article on Mr. Romney, the man of no principles.
Fucking Black Jimmy Carter!
He SOLD US OUT!
@Culture of Truth: Can the Convention be moved at this late date?
Where is the best place to donate to Obama regarding this announcement? I want to show my thanks and approval.
Davis X. Machina
@Zifnab: I’m demanding this time that Obama throws me under a hybrid bus — I’m trying to reduce my carbon footprint.
this is good news for
john mccain megan mccain liz cheneymary cheney
About fuckin’ time. I know after last night, it would seem that my home state of NC disagrees. Nice to let them all know your thoughts the day after Sir. Thanks.
Log Cabin Republicans On Obama: ‘Offensive And Callous’
hahaha.. What will Sullivan say?
Does this mean he has lost the Billy Graham vote?
Fred Hiatt must be shitting himself trying to line up op-eds from blue dog chickenshit pundits.
@wenchacha: People had a goddamn stroke when I said that this morning. It was “the stupidest thing” they ever heard.
Well, it’s a good thing, of course.
Now someone can explain to me why he didn’t do it half a year or a year earlier, especially those people who insisted that he couldn’t do it without electoral consequences among independent voters.
A.K.A. the LogCabin Republican assholes who just said his comments were “offensive”.
What a crazy world.
As soon as pollsters tell him it’s politically popular, and not a minute sooner. Because that’s what bold business leaders do.
@Davis X. Machina: FTW.
Realistically, no it can’t. All kinds of logistics for an event that big are in place six to nine months ahead of time.
Would be fun to stick it to the Talibangelicals, you gotta admit, but the party would be risking making a laughing stock of itself as it scrambled to reorganize.
Shepard Smith gives zero fucks about keeping his job:
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I’m waiting for the CTs that the Saudi’s were involved, so this really isn’t a valid endorsement.
Ugh. Ready to throttle someone. Discussed SSM with a super religious randian. I know, red flags everywhere. Pulls both the “marriage is a religious thing” AND the “the state should just get out of marriage” arguments in the same discussion.
I just told him that until the preacher doesn’t say “by the power vested in me by the state of…” religious people can STFU about how their marriages are religious and not civil.
He looked a bit uncomfortable. That was hard for him
But not good enough, obviously.
@Nellcote: Dan Savage thinks this isn’t enough because Obama also said that he supports the states deciding the issue on their own.
John Arbuthnot Fisher
This is easy.
– Voters 18-30
– LGBT enthusiasm
– More money
– Legacy as presidential pioneer for LGBT equality
– Money again.
– @rlrr: This.
Who knew that the political calculus favored this announcement? For every old white guy Obama “loses,” he will gain at least one young voter who is now 1) more likely to show up at all, 2) vote Democratic downticket, and 3) vote for Democrats more generally – for the next 50 years.
This feels very good.
@NobodySpecial: Please. If Amendment 1 passed by 20 pts after his said this, you would be blaming him for it by “injecting himself into the debate” or some other horseshit.
Holy fuck, here comes the backlash; this ain’t gonna be pretty. The real question now is does this help or hurt the state-level marriage equality movement. I’m pessimistic, but I hope I’m wrong.
WORSERHANBUSH! WORSENTHAN BUSH! WHERE’S MY PONY?!
This happened because activists decided to take John Cole’s advice and quit hassling Obama on LGBT issues.
@JPL: God. I’m done with that group I never joined or been involved with. I honestly don’t think they actually exist any longer. They are a parody. If I went into their houses, I’m sure I’d find a little shrine with an eternal flame for Richard Nixon.
Talk is cheap. When he divorces Michelle and marries a man, then I’ll believe him.
No, but really, this is great. What a nice follow-up to North Carolina’s treachery.
This is good news for Keith Judd!
Not enough. He should divorce Michelle, and marry Joe Biden.
@NobodySpecial: Gaia help me, right on cue. “And why didn’t he *gift wrap it* like I demanded? Huh? Answer me that, mindless Obots!”
Kiss Ohio goodbye in the general.
Also, too, DOJ tells Kamp Kommandant Arpaio that they’ll see his ass in court.
@JPL: FFS. I love what one guy commented: “Excuse me, Log Cabin Republicans, but it was YOUR party that introduced and supported Amendment One in North Carolina.”
I swear, the Log Cabin Republicans have the biggest case of Stockholm Syndrome that I’ve ever seen.
I honestly thought he’d wait until after November. Good on ya, Mr. President. And good luck.
Well done, President Obama. ETA: poorly done, trolls. Does every single thread have to be about you?
” Romney is playing with his..etch a sketch..fast and furiously. ”
If it looks like a good move, Romney might get on TV asap and take credit. He’s running for President, for Pete’s sake!
Davis X. Machina
@RedKitten: You mean you wouldn’t do anything for a slightly lower top marginal rate of income tax?
His ninja assassins will probably take Billy Graham out, same as Breitbart.
This will not satisfy my professional lefty relatives. I don’t know why, but there will be something unacceptable about this.
Well Mitt will take credit for turning many a young man gay with his rugged good looks and shoulders you could land an aircraft on.
Back on topic: I can’t watch the video now but the fact that this has happened is making me feel like I could cry right here at work. Wow, what a milestone.
He took to long and it’s just words.
@RedKitten: I dunno. I wouldn’t compare them to prisoners even facetiously–it’s loving their money (there are no poor Log Cabiners) more than their civil rights that got them into this mess.
Quaker in a Basement
The conservative pushback will be that he just took a dump on the entire state of North Carolina following the Amendment One vote.
Below is, IMHO, an example of political ‘victim card’ fail.
Log Cabin Republicans On Obama: ‘Offensive And Callous’
Holy keereyest, do they think today’s Christmas or something?
Now, watch the wingnuts and the media call him a flipflopper and say that now he’s done this, all of Romney’s flipflops mean absolutely nothing because Obama is a flipflopper too, also.
@jl: Well we all know where he keeps his etch a sketch…
re: Log Cabin Republican statement:
That’s why we support candidates who never speak up for marriage equality.
Let us now praise the guy who ran on a ticket that supported a constitutional amendment that would have banned same-sex marriage (and probably civil unions).
Do you seriously think Obama’s been bold on this?
Or is bold now after he was just told to man up by Ed Rendell?
@John Arbuthnot Fisher:
I think you are right about the political timing. Well played.
A question, please. Why do you speculate about how bad the backlash might be.
Seems to me that the lash of bigotry was pretty nasty stuff.
The first insular white person who says that black voters will abandon him over this–like even older and religiously conservative black voters haven’t seen every explicitly and implicitly racist thing that’s been thrown at Obama over the last four years and would crawl over broken glass to reelect him at this point–gets a punch in the throat.
But in all seriousness, this is great news. More and more I get the feeling that we’re living in the time of truly great president.
Bobo owes you for writing his Thursday morning column.
This IS Obama shoving LGBT people under a bus for a few votes.
I know that sounds weird, but there’s not going to be real change until there is cultural change.
This makes cultural change that much harder.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@John Arbuthnot Fisher:
This. It’s an energize the base move if you want to reduce it to its rawest political calculus. Any folks forgetting about all that “hope and change” stuff, well, this takes aim at pulling those exact hope and change heartstrings.
emoprogs, firebaggers, will still piss and whine as seen above. Fine. Figure out when you would have heard this statement out of a President RMoney. Get back to me when you keel over dead holding your breath waiting for that to happen.
@middlewest: I can’t see how it could hurt at this point. Pretty much every stat that was going to has locked bigotry into their constitution. It’s not like they can pass extra strength amendments on this topic.
Davis X. Machina
@Karmakin: Wow. A blog comment shaped exactly like a Klein bottle….
@Nellcote: Took less than 5 minutes on ABLC’s FB post. He didn’t do it 3 or 4 years ago and this is an election cycle thing. Timing will be the complaint.
I’m good for 50 to the Pres on this one.
It has been a long time coming, and I deeply appreciate that he has committed to us in this way.
Thank you, Mr President.
@Karmakin: Are you bad at snark or at thinking? I can’t tell.
@Karmakin: @4tehlulz: karmakin, if you show your work, we are willing to give you partial credit. can you do so?
@NobodySpecial: It’s quite simple, actually. He probably waited until now because the campaign is underway and he needed to galvanize his base since the big wall street money isn’t coming in for him as much as it was in 2008. But you know what? IT DOESN’T MATTER! Support for gay marriage is support for gay marriage. If the timing of it was political, who the hell cares? In case you haven’t noticed, Obama is a politician, and one who has to actually win an upcoming election in order to continue as President. Sometimes that means he has to time announcements like this for when they’ll be most politically helpful. There’s no evidence that he isn’t sincere, and plenty of evidence that he is. Criticizing him for not doing it sooner is stupid considering that he will likely get the most political gain for announcing this position so soon after the NC debacle, and if we hope to avoid President Romney next year, we need President Obama to have all the political gains he can get.
Let’s see. How dare he politicize marriage?
I find it funny that lots of people here are complaining about imaginary complaints from the imaginary version of liberal critics of Obama that exists only in their heads.
Regardless, I don’t say this much, but good for Obama!
@Karmakin: Most cultural changes occur because the guy at the top shows moral leadership.
This is very good news for marcus bachmann.
Right wing neighbor just posted on Facebook that Obama is
Two responses: It’s not the popular position during an election year and Etch-a-Sketch
@Davis X. Machina:
I’m sure that not all gay Republicans are in it for the lower top marginal tax rate. Some of them want to bomb the shit out of other countries, and I’m sure a bunch of them are racist fucks who care more about being awful to other minorities than about looking after their own interests.
hells littlest angel
Have we got a totally fucking awesome president, or what?
Meh. Had he really led on this issue, and not be an abject follower, he could have lined up 60 votes in the Senate to get a real equal rights bill passed before the House turned GOP. Wake me when he stops drone killing civilians and stops supporting apartheid Israel and starts going after the bank-fraudsters that sent the economy into a tailspin.
If by “fun” you mean “guarantee an electoral loss in NC”, then sure. Big fun!
how did i do?
Funny how we’ve had a a couple of those “imaginary” posts in the first 30 minutes this thread was up, but whatever.
EDIT: Oops, make that three; Eric snuck in just under the wire. But still, obotomized obotulist opologists, etc.
Yay! Good for him.
Hi! Are you familiar with MetaFilter?
James E. Powell
I can never drop my cynicism when it comes to politics. I have to assume that intense polling showed it was more gain than loss.
More specifically, this can work out rather well for Obama and the Democrats. It baits the Republicans into pushing their odious social & cultural issues to the front. Obama responds with “What the hell are you guys yelling about? I’m focusing on the economy and killing terrorists!”
Oh, fuck off.
Davis X. Machina
@Roger Moore: Shoot me for being charitable….
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Quaker in a Basement: Which will be funny because the complainers on the left are asking why he didn’t do this before yesterday.
@NR: Like here?
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
Lazy Copy-pasting of my comment on the subject at TNC’s post on this:
Words are important…but I think the problem is, by speaking out like this now, Obama’s pretty much given the GOP a carte blanche to go full-bore anti-gay and get away with it, or even the nonsensical alternative, that Obama isn’t really serious and therefore Dems are really the party worse for gays. Not for anything against Obama himself or what he said, but simply because for some godawful reason, the GOP continues to define themselves reflexively as anti-whatever Obama wants.
I mean…good lord, the Log Cabin Republicans, clear case of Stockholms Syndrome as they are, basically bashed Obama for being Offensive and Callous for saying it now, because apparently…saying it after the Amendment in NC passed shows he really doesn’t care and therefore the GOP is better for gay rights or something.
It’s damning of the system and the conversation rather that Obama, but it just makes me…honestly, I don’t know what it makes me want to do but throw up my hands and walk away. I’m glad for Obama saying what he did. I’m not looking forward to the circus that’s going to follow though.
More inneresting to me are the flip sides to the same coin, Tweety and Gov Rendell, making hay outa this. Watching them on Now wAlex Wagner today, contorting themselves into Miss Manner knots over how the Prez has dealt/is/should be dealing with gay marriage was funnier than they intended to be. I’m under the impression now, after this announcement, that Obama has a firm grasp on proper timing. Watch him in Charlotte use that setting to really bring this home, also. As well.
@Roger Moore: Good point. But I still challenge anyone to find more than a handful who aren’t within the top few percent in income. Having solid economic resources helps with the illusion that the terrible things that happen to poorer gay people can’t happen to you. (And to a large extent, it’s true.)
Am I allowed to believe that Obama’s statement is (a) pathetically late, (b) transparently politically calculated, and (c) absolutely wonderful, all at once?
@eric: You had me going there for a minute. Well played.
Yes, this is good news for John McCain, I’m sure . . .
@Mark S.: Christ on a mother freakin’ cracker, when you have to point to Dick Cheney as being the guiding light of a movement in the Republican party, you might as well throw yourself off a cliff.
Erasure + Obama + same-sex marriage. I’m a straight guy, but you couldn’t tell from my attitude right now.
@James E. Powell: via Twitter:
@ppppolls “On national poll last weekend we found most voters opposed to legal recognition for gay couples ALREADY think Obama supports gay marriage”
Fucker didn’t mention the Public Option once! Not once!
This proves he’s nothng mo than a blue-dog, conservadem, neo-con, secret republican!
The NYTimes has a site updating the reaction to the President’s announcement.. link
@shortstop: I don’t know, black woman, 52 years of age born and raised on the South side of Chicago and until today, my vote for Obama was unquestioned. Now, this will be a struggle for me, and I know many more people that will feel exactly like this. If this costs Obama the election…
@NR: Agree. I’m not a fan of the president,but he did right and that should be recognized and appreciated. People saying this was a no-brainer or no-gutter or whatever forget just how many mouth-breathers there are in the good old US of A.
Uuuuh, why not? You do realize that some of us are actually working in the real world on marriage equality and not just farting around on the internet, right? The consequences, good and bad, are going to be real and immediate for some of us.
The Log Cabin Republicans find it offensive because it puts them on the spot. Do they want marriage equality or those sweet, sweet tax cuts? Do they want to be Robbie Ross or Bosie Douglas?
@Cluttered Mind: You and the other complainers about my post misunderstand.
The complaint is not about Obama or his timing.
The complaint is about the number of Juicers who sat here and said that Obama couldn’t dare come down on the side of gay marriages…and before that, couldn’t dare use an EO until DADT was repealed….and couldn’t, couldn’t, couldn’t at every single turn, and everyone who said otherwise was a unicorn glitter firebagger.
NOTHING HAS CHANGED. The political calculus is still the same as it was in 2010. But NOW the same people who insisted that Obama didn’t DARE do this before are now cheering to the rafters and filled with recriminations for everyone who knows that nothing changed.
If all everyone does is wait for Obama to move, then we ain’t going nowhere – because OBAMA HIMSELF said you gotta make him move. And that’s not the “Firebaggers” at fault there.
Fuck Gay Marriage
Black Studies And The Chronicle’s Cowardice
Even though I truly believe in the right to marry and fornicate with whoever you want to, I want Andrew Sullivan to hurt.
I’m voting Republican, I was going to sit on the sideline and convince myself to vote for the best of the worst, but now I’m voting Republican. The same fucking page on which he celebrates an African American president coming out for his rights he defends a bigot. From now on I’m going to be as self-centered as he is, if it don’t personally impact me I’m ignoring it and voting for the other guy.
FUCK him and gay rights.
@Gator90: Yes. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Davis X. Machina
I like the way he waited until after the outcome of the battle at Sharpsburg was clear.
Gutless Illinois state-house hack.
I’m going to put this as simply as possible: I don’t believe you.
@Gator90: I’ll give you b and c, but not a, also -1 for the copyright symbol. 6/10.
Seriously though, Obama doesn’t like to make this debate about him, since there is plenty of evidence that this harms the cause. A 20 pt blowout in NC makes it clear that he can only help, not harm, marriage equality.
NØbama didn’t mention legalizing heroin once! not once!
fucking sell out!
@staci: Cool story, bro.
Dude, that’s messed up.
@staci: There’s been so many sarcastic comments in this thread I can’t tell if yours is serious. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeesa let it not be.
I don’t know. Apparently somewhere between 20 and 30 percent of gays vote Republican. I assume they skew richer than gays in general, but that’s enough that they can’t all be 1%ers. There has to be something else that convinces them to vote for the people who hate them.
@staci: Well, fuck them and fuck you.
Lt Dan Choi deserves ALLL the credit.
NØbama only did this because Choi had chained himself to the white house two years ago on a day when NØbama was in another country.
I’m sure those would be those same 60 Senators who were gung-ho to get that single-payer/public-option healthcare plan passed.
@James E. Powell:
So, Republicans really love women, and all these eruptions of anti-abortion legislation is the result of reading the tea leaves of polls?
And I bet there are people in Europe who told themselves up until Saturday that all the intense polling indicated that austerity was going down well with people in France and Greece.
I can be as cynical as anyone. I recognize the regressive forces that yearn for authoritarianism. But this is not the only impulse at work in the world.
Haven’t had time to read the thread….how are the firebaggers holding up?
Staci, if your story is true, it’s pathetic. Really.
Hear that sound in the distance?
That’s the sound of millions of blue-collar working class whites in the Scranton-to-Oshkosh corridor where this election will be decided running away as fast as possible from Obambi now.
Good luck winning Ohio and Pennsylvania now. Michigan may even be in play with this new radical leftist position taken. The white, blue collar union Democrat voters are going to run away as fast as possible from the Party of Homosexuality.
Not a troll. And I’m fully in favor of full equality for LGBT folk. 100%
However, considering the fully polarized political environment, I have very real concerns that what is going on is that people who might be more socially reachable (with experience, social pressure, etc) might be entirely unreachable now that the personification of the “enemy” I.E. Obama fully supports it.
Now, I don’t think this is going to be a huge effect. And in the short-run it might even be worth it. I just happen to think that Obama’s previous policy of neutrality, in the medium and long-run (although the long-run doesn’t matter because the bigots will be dead and in the ground) is slightly..SLIGHTLY better than not being neutral.
However, I’m willing to say that in the short-run, throwing the culture wars under the bus (because that’s what I’m talking about) for short-term political motivation, might be the right thing to do. But make no mistake. It makes it a bit harder to change some hearts and minds.
@Roger Moore: Well, that’s why I said the top few percent…there’s a big difference between the top 5% and the top 1%.
Income disparity between men and women is magnified in same-sex couples. I’d be interested in knowing how many Log Cabin Republicans have XX chromes.
Not denying your point in general, just think that LCRs tend to be quite a bit more wealthy than the average gay or lesbian voter.
@shortstop: YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG!
(Aiming too high)
@The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik: I don’t think you can blame Obama for baiting the Republicans. I think the GOP would try to paint him as being on the side of teh eevul gheys, even if he had said nothing. Meanwhile, you’d have people like me who’d (continue to) wonder why he hadn’t said anything.
Up here in Ontario, we’ve got a major campaign against an anti-bullying bill which would allow gay-straight alliance clubs in high schools where students want them (ie it would prevent schools—in particular Catholic schools—from banning them). Most of the people arguing against the bill have no fucking idea what the bill actually says, and assume it’s about sex ed in classrooms. They don’t know what the hell they’re opposing, but they do it anyway because gays.
I have a feeling there is a lot of commonality between those people and the people working against Obama.
@The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik:
Wow, what a shocking turn of events that will be!
Please, let them do that.
@eemom: they’re saying it’s meaningless because it’s only words, and he really didn’t mean it because he hasn’t divorced Michelle and married ricky martin. you know, the usual.
@Cato: OH LOOK THE GAY BASHER IS HERE
This is going to make November so much sweeter. You’re down to rooting for hate. Inside of a week you’ll be hoping someone rids you of this meddlesome president for Mitt to win.
The Democrat Party is now officially the Party of Sodomy.
Didn’t see this coming. Probably just increased youth turnout by 25% doing it, though. It’ll be interesting to see how he fares with Latinos, though. That’s a big Catholic block that generally voted for him in 2008, but also voted for Prop 8.
Poor baby. Just this morning you were pretending to be oh so outraged about the phony “Democrat war on gays”, and here Obummer went and cut you off at the knees yet again.
How do you think endorsing homomarriage goes down in the Scranton-to-Oshkosh corridor with white, blue collar union members?
@Cato: No, we’re the party that’s okay with sodomy. You’re still the party that actually does it.
Coulda fooled me…
This also gives Romney a great opening with Latinos and maybe even some blacks.
Shorter Nobody Special: “Yeah, it’s good, BUT…”
Just fuckin’ roll with it, dude.
Because Sully is the only gay person in this country!
@jon: same, except that Lindsey Graham would have been the 60th for the equal rights bill, while Orin Hatch for the public option in honor of his dear friend Teddy Kennedy.
@eric: Dude. That was SCARY good.
I wonder if Republicans will take the bait on this and spend the next two weeks bashing gays?
@4tehlulz: He’s too much of a coward to be a gay basher. He’d piss himself.
Cato has no heart (and I don’t mean he’s heartless, but simply that he’s a bitch)
He’d last about a day in my shoes. Then he’d open a vein.
Fucker couldn’t handle being queer. So he should thank his God that he’s not. He doesn’t have the guts for it.
James E. Powell
That’s another good point. Can the imposition of Sharia Law be far behind?
I’m so happy.
More to the point, I can’t understand why the GOP scheduled the vote for primary season rather than November. Seems like they missed a huge GOTV incentive by having it early.
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
I don’t blame him at all. I just think, with the way our godawful system and discourse is jiggered right now, it’s gonna some how end up turned into an advantage for the anti-gay righties because of that godawful stupid reflexive ‘Anti-everything Obama wants’ stance that somehow, someway still wins the day time and time and time a-fucking-gain.
Obama should’ve said this before, and I’m glad he said it now. I just don’t look forward to what’s gonna come on its heels now that he has. No good deed goes unpunished, and whatnot.
@Cato: cool, a sodomy party.
But to clarify, this is going to cost Obama. It’ll open the gap in states he would have won anyway and probably take a few off the map that he could have reached.
Probably bad electoral calculus, but it’s the right thing, and it’s inevitable, and let the chips fall where they may.
That was a parody comment? Hell, I totally fell for it. Damn you, eric!
@Karmakin: I think you’re greatly overestimating the number of people who think Obama is “the enemy” who are also “socially reachable.”
This mostly turns off people who weren’t going to vote for him anyway. It mobilizes people who were, and will have a net positive effect on true fence sitters. Support for marriage equality has grown fastest among true independents–that is, people who are not privately voting for Republicans while publicly embarrassed to admit to it.
You know, sometimes Democrats do the right thing, not what’s popular. That’s something you and your candidate can never understand.
@NobodySpecial: I’ll accept that that’s what you meant on faith for now because I’ve got no reason to doubt you. Here’s my counterpoint: How do you suggest we “move” Obama?
Is his simple ass serious?
Shoulda known some fool-ass emoprog would shit on this.
@Cato: The president is doing the right thing, so they can react however they like.
You mad because Mitt would never have the balls to do the right thing? Deal with it.
This has Matthews/Friedman splooge all over it
Willard lost Latinos a long time ago.
As for African-Americans, they just have to be reminded that Willard was riding his bike around France pimping a religion that didn’t allow black people to join.
@The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik: My feeling is regardless of what he said and when, they’d make something up, anyway. Ultimately, this will have no effect on Republican strategery.
Good news all around!
For the trolls: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?2,file=56414,filename=hey-you-troll-harder.jpg
Well, I guess that answers my question.
So lemme get this straight: Obama threw the cause of marriage equality under the bus by supporting it?
And this is because the bigoted homophobic morons who hate Obama and oppose gay marriage might somehow be persuaded to stop being homophobic and embrace gay marriage if they thought Obama didn’t like it, cuz they hate Obama even more than they do gay people?
Good Lord, troll would be a step UP for you.
No One of Consequence
The East German judge gives you a 3.141592653589…
@eric: Had he really led on this issue, and not be an abject follower, he could have lined up 60 votes in the Senate to get a real equal rights bill passed before the House turned GOP.
You’ve got to be kidding. Those “60 votes” included DINOs like Joe Lieberman and Robert Byrd. There isn’t a hope in hell of getting a pro gay marriage bill through the senate now. The only thing that is possible is for the Supreme courts and/or voters of the various states to roll the cause forward one state jurisdiction at a time. This is the first modestly brave thing Obama has ever done — he has to know it galvanizes the Talibanvelical vote at a time when they were feeling really, really unenthused about the Romney candidacy.
So, congratulations, “progressives”, the Democrat Party will pick up literally 100s of extra votes from Green Party voters in Manhattan, San Francisco, and Boston, while alienating 100s of thousands if not millions of blue collar swing voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin.
And you can kiss any chance of carrying VA or NC goodbye.
Marcellus Shale, Public Dick
to be fair, jimmy carter consulted amy about nuclear weapons, Potus consulted his daughter about marriage equality.
that is enough for an entire special project on politco, redstate and town hall.
@4tehlulz: That troll comment was so bad that I laughed out loud! When I taught in college, I would give students 1 extra credit point if they could make me laugh while grading their test. So I say one point here for making me laugh!
Hoorah for our side!
@eemom: In New York, I remember some LGBT activist arguing that Governor Paterson secretly hated the gays because he waited until he was unpopular to push for it and it failed in the state legislature.
Check this out. New national poll suggests Latinos now support marriage equality at the same rate as the general population. And keep in mind that people voting for Prop 8 were voting for a single issue in that instance. In the presidential election, they’re voting for a host of issues, one of which is that the GOP relentlessly bashes immigrants, Spanish speakers and brown people in general.
Eric, you scored 9/10 on the Greenwald scale.
@kc: my bad….had i put in the public option, it would have been too easy.
So he wins with 272 electoral votes instead of 340.
He does the right thing, and he still wins. You lose on both counts.
Also, it should be noted that you didn’t deny hoping something happens to Obama to allow Mitt to win. I hope you can live with yourself.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure President Obama gives a flying fuck what that two-faced Rendell says.
Considering Obama’s done more for gay rights than ALL PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS COMBINED, yeah, I’d say he’s been bold on this.
Tired of emo-bitches moving those goalposts.
@middlewest: RE: A question, please. Why do you speculate about how bad the backlash might be.
In the world I live in, I have always felt better when I hear people say, “I’m on your side. Even when the shit comes down. I’m with you.”
I don’t know of any movement in history that ever benefitted or succeeded from people saying, “Please don’t take a stand. We’re worried about the backlash.”
I admit to being perplexed at the timing…and am also concerned about waking up the rabid Teahaddists who otherwise might decide to stay home and that they couldn’t stomach voting for Mittens (especially if they think he’s going to get trounced).
on the other hand, it’s been said by the President of the US now. Maybe one day soon even the villagers will consider the position a non-issue.
The thing I am liking more and more about this President is that he seems willing to demonstrate that people don’t need to be so terrified of standing up against the hyperbole that the GOP and Neocons have crafted over the last 30 years. Statements that once would have had the DNC leadership grasping for their smelling salts and fainting couches don’t seem quite so scarey anymore.
5 years ago I thought I’d never see this happen. In a couple more years it will seem like the non-event it really is. The arch between major policy shift, holding our breath for the GOP freakout, and the final yawn of ‘much ado about nothing’ seems to be getting shorter and shorter.
@Anton Sirius: Deal between GOP and conservadems: in return for support from the conservadems, they ran with it during the primary instead of the general.
The “let states decide” position IS sort of a cop out. Still, it’s a big step and a first for a sitting president to affirm support for gay marriage. It took balls for Obama to do it, especially now, and I’m happy to praise him for it.
Corbin Dallas Multipass
I was just talking with my friend about this. There are two cynical positions to take that I can see – either Obama doesn’t want or doesn’t care to support gay marriage, and is doing so now only because the polls changed, or He always supported gay marriage and was pandering before, and is doing so now to since the polls align with his actual beliefs. In short – he was selling out gays before, or he’s pandering to them now. Both are calculated callous self interested moves – aka cynical.
Unless you actually believe he really “came around on this.”
Just to be clear, I’m happy he’s truly on the right side of this issue now, and am energized and supportive of this change in position.
OCEANS OF UNLIMITED SUPERPAC CASH WILL DROWN THE SCRANTON TO OSHKOSH (aka paper to baby overalls) CORRIDOR.
@NobodySpecial: @eric: @Karmakin: PONIES!
@Cato: The republican party stood up to the Christian right and declared slavery illegal. The republicans have lost their way. They can only win by being bigots and grifters. Your momma must be so proud.
Don’t be so quick on that one. I have a (yes, really) friend who is an African American woman, pentecostal, six kids, husband a pastor. She voted for George Bush twice because he was anti abortion. They did vote for Obama and are passionate Obama supporters but they really hesitated over the pro choice side of things. I haven’t talked to them about this but I wouldn’t be entirely certain that there aren’t some in the African American religious community who don’t turn on Obama for this. Not many, but a few.
Can’t wait to hear Mittens’ response.
I work for DoD. As DADT Repeal was being finalized, we had an “All Hands” meeting, outlining the new policies, and looking into the future. This is what SecNav had to say (paraphrased):
Repeal Of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Will Ultimately Legalize Gay Marriage Nationally…
Amongst the issues being discussed in finalizing the repeal policy, is what happens when a legally married gay/lesbian joins the Military, and is stationed in a state that bans gay marriage, or doesn’t recognize it. DoD will must needs recognize the marriage, and provide housing/BHA, TriCare, and Base privileges, etc., and this will, in the end, force the states to recognize gay military marriages (and divorces) if they want the contracts. The states won’t be able to recognize ONLY Military marriages– equal protection– and one by one, the bans will crumble in short order.
That’s how it is going to end. North Carolina voted for the 19th Century… OK. The 21st Century is going to steamroll them, and the rest, in fairly short order.
Damn, TPM links, they ded mon.
The clock ran out on his equivocation. What a hero.
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
The GOP strategy, yeah, I don’t see it changing. People’s perception of the strategy…I end up seeing a lot of people’s soft support turn into hard opposition on yet another goddamn issue because if Obama and Dems want it, they must reflexively be against it ‘cuz Obama baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. Independents and moderates suddenly finding ‘principled opposition’ to this because Obama said something and it hurt their non-partisan fee-fees.
You know, I find it kind of ironic that someone named after a libertarian think tank is positively gleeful about preying on hate and fear about sexuality for raw political purposes. Makes me feel justified in saying that most libertarians are not, in fact, socially liberal, but wannabe fascists who pretend to give a shit about social issues.
Of course, our Profile In Courage was at pains to stress that his personal “evolution” – which required only public polling majorities and some inconveniently timed verbal diarrhea from Biden – doesn’t change his support for the right of North Carolina to enshrine apartheid laws into their constitution. Heaven forfend!
Still, here’s a golf clap. Who knows? Maybe someday he’ll change his mind on the morality of butchering Muslim children from the skies.
@eric: Pitch perfect.
The Super PAC ads about his new radical social agenda are in the works-coming to Scranton, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Oshkosh, Appleton, and Green Bay.
@Martin: True, but there’s a good chance that Republicans will overplay their hand on this, I imagine that’s what Obama’s counting on.
Thanks for the boost after a shitty day here in Mayberry. I’m talking to you trollz! You funny!
@eric: ain’t no party like a sodomy party coz a sodomy party don’t breed!
The repressed gay wingnuts respond in verse!
Oh burn, burn, burn in hell
You hideous, ebon infidel!
For god hates fags
How can they marry?
Still I’d love to do
That cute Rick Perry!
Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor
Blue collar swing voters who will suffer much, much more than I ever will under a Romney administration. So, if that’s the way it goes… Fuck ’em.
BTW, I thought I told you to kill yourself. Why are you still here?
pseudonymous in nc
I see that Biggus Dickus is here to earn another $0.74 from the RMoney campaign.
@Cato: And yet, GM is alive and bin Laden is dead.
Deal with it.
No, it just gives you AIDS.
@aimai: Sure, a few. A very (mostly very religious, like your friend) few, after the events of the last four years. However, we should expect floods of concerned MSM stories predicting that black people are poised to leave Obama in droves over this. I get tired just thinking of it.
Davis X. Machina
OT at @Monkeyfister: Our local big microbrewery’s new offering is Monkey Fist IPA. I’ve been explaining, or trying to, what a monkey fist is as a result.
The universal assumption among the uninitiated is that it has to be ‘something dirty’.
So in other words, you’re a bigot who’d cut off her nose to spite her face. I see. Civil rights for me but not for thee. Your children must be so proud.
Are these in addition to the UNLIMITED KOCH ADS about Rev. Wright you were threatening us with last week, or are you replacing them?
Apparently the Log Cabin Republicans are bottoms who like it rough and bareback.
The Scranton-Oshkosh Corridor is just one big Applebee’s salad bar.
There’s no sneeze-guard or nothin’
This is a big fucking deal!
You must have jumped in without reading some of the comments and links here.
I’m sure that was hard for you to spit out.
@staci: Then you’ll have only yourselves to blame for what happens to you under the loving care of Mr Romney.
Rachel Maddow will be extra enjoyable to watch this evening.
Interesting factoid, Obama got more votes in NC yesterday than did Mittens.
@Cato: <—–1982 is over there, bigot.
I love reading you because you’re so bad at politics.
Just admit it. You don’t know anything about any of these states :)
My own personal (wholly anecdotal) opinion is that socially conservative Democrats already think Obama supported same sex marriage, because media and conservatives have (inaccurately, but successfully) portrayed him as a liberal.
I think most of them hear this and say “he didn’t support it before?”
They think all Democrats support same-sex marriage.
Virginia voted in 2006 to ban homomarriage by quite a large margin.
Obama opposed Amendment One
I’m curious about the whole ‘Scranton-Oshkosh corridor’ thing, I mean aside from it being a phrase I’ve never heard anywhere before, ever. I can’t think of a way to draw one that would include, say, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania or La Crosse, Wisconsin. Does that mean the once-proud, salt-of-the-earth blue collar denizens of those cities have turned into buttsex-lovin’ homos without my knowledge? Damn, well at least I know where I’m vacationing next year.
…. aaaand the Log Cabin Republicans respond in typical “how dare he!” fashion.
Seriously, why do they even exist?
2006: Virginia Bans “homomarriage”
2008: Votes for Obama
Try something a little more recent. Also, still waiting for you to renounce hoping for harm to the president.
@AxelFoley: Fcuk Ed Rendell. He drives me around the bend when I see him on MSNBC. He can say all the right stuff but I can’t get him being a Hillbot Firebagger out of my brain. I don’t see him getting a job with the Obama admin.
Also too, I am proud of mah president today. Really really proud. Also also too, I love me some Joe Biden who set this up. Me thinks Axelrod and Plouffe had mini heart attacks when they watched Biden on MTP on Sunday.
This is interesting, and I knew there was a lot of policy work that went on during the DADT repeal. Yes, while a bunch of people where screaming about how the military could just end DADT with a stroke of a pen and why weren’t they doing it today, there were a pile of issues domestically and especially with Status of Forces agreements for overseas postings.
Also remember how most of the major military posts/camps/stations are in Southern states, and it might be fun to watch a bunch of Boss Hoggs have to either OK gay marriage or lose billions in local base spending. Maybe. I can dream.
You certainly do put the “queen” in “drama queen”.
I dunno about The Cost, honestly. I know people have been concerned about it, but IMHO it’s kind of like the gun stuff, or even taxes, where it doesn’t really matter what the Democrat _actually_ does on the issue, he’s already presumed to be cooking up something nefarious to sneak in the opposite effect.
@Martin: When I first heard them saying Obama might come out for gay marriage today, I thought for sure that if he did that he would frame it in the context of civil rights for everyone, gays, african americans, hispanic, etc. I’ll be interested in seeing whether any of that comes up in the longer interview.
waiting for the liberal backlash at his careful wording
@Spaghetti Lee: I think he means that cities with minor league baseball teams will vote for Mitt.
Yes, in 2008 Obama said marriage was between one man and one woman.
Now he’s all for SSM.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of compassion
Thank you, Mr. President. From the bottom of my heart. I alone, of all I loved, have lived to see this day, and I am thankful beyond words. Thank you, Sir. I have never been prouder of my nation or my President than I am right now.
@Cato: Now you’re not even trying.
Oops, but look at them now! How unfair is it to troglodytes when a civil rights movement progresses so quickly?! By the way, I’ve also been meaning to speak to you about your 20-years-out-of-date clothes. I didn’t want to embarrass you, but…
@Corbin Dallas Multipass: Did you watch the interview? He has always supported civil unions with full rights but felt that marriage was too associated with religion. I would agree with the fact that NCs bill was the tipping point, but only because it outlawed civil unions as well.
Homo Bradley effect. What people say in a poll is quite different from what they do in the privacy of a voting booth. They don’t want to look un-PC in public, but in private, they find gay acts pretty disgusting.
Davis X. Machina
I AM DISSAPOINT
If you need a pretty standard idea of how Firebaggers will act… http://gawker.com/5909002/barack-obamas-bullshit-gay-marriage-announcement
Congrats, Trurl. You and ReaIity Check are on the same side (anti whatever Obama says) of yet another issue. I now homo-pronounce you troll and troll. You may kiss the troll.
Thank you, President Obama.
(cough). wait, what?
@Southern Beale: They must have a pretty big closet if they want to vote for Romney.
BTW according to TPM Romney will issue a statement at 4:20 pm
good news! you never have to wait too long for emoprog backlash.
and a lot of voters in the so-called Scranton-Oshkosh Corridor who have gay kids, grandkids, friends, etc, will have a reason to vote for Obama over Mitt.
Cute that people think I’m being a firebagger when I’m actually saying that Obama was right all along and that the firebagger/Greenwald component was DoublePlus wrong.
Truth be told it’s probably a good day to do it, for a variety of reasons. And maybe I’m wrong, but I do think that homophobia was losing ground bit by bit. And I do think that this MAY serve to slow down cultural progress.
@eemom: I think there’s a relatively small number of fiscally conservative, socially who gives a fuck conservatives who are the next “battleground” for this wing of the culture wars, and it’s POSSIBLE that Obama remaining neutral would make it easier to change their minds.
Hey, I could be wrong. But I do think this grinds CULTURAL progress to a halt on this particular issue.
Actually, what JimF says makes a LOT of sense. If they’re going to go to war against the extremism of the NC amendment (which is typical of these amendments, to be honest), and claim that the extremism demands a response. I change my mind. Then this makes a ton of sense politically and culturally.
@Corbin Dallas Multipass: As another commenter mentioned, Obama has always been for civil unions and the rights that go with them. It was the marriage part he struggled with. Give him credit for growing. (I did think he’d come around on this, but during the next term.)
Also, too, I want to gay marry your screen name.
@Cato: See? Was that so hard?
Why don’t you practice trolling in a forum that’s a bit more you’re speed and get back to us when you’ve leveled up a bit.
@JPL: That oughta be a doozy. Wait, it’s right now…
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Southern Beale: The same reason Michael Steele exists: Republicans have friends who are gay.
@Cato: Yes, straight people have such a problem with the anus that their p0rn only includes it in 91% of scenes.
Good for him!
I have to admit that although I’m a big Obama supporter, I thought he was too cautious to do this when there could be a fair amount of political downside in swing states.
This reminds me of the LBJ quote I’ve seen referenced lately in which he responded to aides that said pushing for civil rights was too risky by replying (more or less) what’s the point of being president if you don’t fight for what’s right.
That must be why you never cite any when you come here telling us about the Oshkosh-Scranton-stay-at-home-moms who are constantly abandoning Obama in droves.
Thankfully there’s no LDS-Bradley effect, or the guy who literally proclaims himself to be the Messiah foretold in the Book of Mormon might be in trouble.
I think you might have made the wrong choice. Those folks are vicious.
It was hilarious listening to Limbaugh today and lambasting POTUS and his “war on traditional marriage”. Reminds me of that great line from Elizabeth “I do not think you should be lecturing me on marriage sir, you being thrice divorced and now on your fourth wife”
@Loviatar: If you can foster that kind of attitude, you weren’t liberal to begin with. The GOP welcomes you with open arms. I think I can safely speak for the rest of us when I say GO FUCK YOURSELF. Even if it were snark, it’s unfunny snark. Way to shit on the thread. Redstate is thataway —>
@FlipYrWhig: Tell me more about how you compiled this statistic.
just wait for the UNLIMITED HOMO CASH to start trickling in.
My comment is awaiting moderation. Okay. Why?
and any black Baptists who don’t like this may be tempted to sit it out in November, but we’re about to have 6 months of republicans yelling “He’s a NI(clang)” that will motivate them to go vote for Obama.
That’s among straight people who watch porn, who will probably do anything including fucking animals.
@chopper: Hey, he’s just saying that Romney is all about using homosexuality to leverage Latino and black openings.
I just figured out where “Scranton-Oshkosh Corridor” comes from.
Cato is Chris Matthews.
The problem with American politics: http://www.270towin.com/
There’s a huge number of states, that are solidly Republican, even though they make up a small fraction of the population.
Those states get 2 Senators like the big states.
I really wish Obama could pull of a 1984-style win, where he wins so many states it sends the Republicans reeling, but it isn’t going to happen.
He’ll still have a solid victory, but it won’t be the type of victory that re-aligns the political landscape and forces Republicans to quit being the nut-cases they are.
Also, too NPR’s Talk of the Nation had a pollster on, who was trying to make it out like this is some sort of closely contested election, because there are 9 swing states, without looking at the blue states that give Obama a solid lead over Romney, without the swing states.
Your idiocy knows no bounds. The Bradley Effect is an urban myth, the result of lazy thinking, failure of analysis and sloppy reporting.
You know, just like everything you post here.
@Davis X. Machina: OMG, I missed this the first time, but I’m rolling now.
@shortstop: Yeah..I tuned in late..Keystone he’s building..Healthcare is bad..tax breaks for small business.. blah.blah.blah..
maybe I missed his statement on gays are icky..
@OzoneR: Yeah, but he doesn’t oppose NCs right to set that policy.
It’s a valid point, but also a tricky one for him to weigh in on. Historically, that power has always resided with the states, except when the court deemed otherwise. It’s really quite uncommon for the federal executive or legislature to force the states hands on such matters, except after the courts have done it first.
Miscegenation laws existed well after federal civil rights was passed – and only the courts stopped it. And the federal government never did legislate a backup to the court decision (which is always a good idea – see RvW). I expect the same will ultimately have to happen here. It would be something of an extraordinary step for Obama to say that the states don’t have the right to set marriage policy, so he really can’t go there. The most he can do is oppose the policy, but support the right to set the policy.
Things I learned from Cato: a protein jacket around a strand of rna will spontaneously assemble if you jam a pole in the wrong hole.
Makes sense, I guess. Didn’t realize they needed the extra votes to get the bill through.
@Cato: It’s a good thing that you watch only art flicks, Chris, like Last Tango in Paris or Caligula. No one would accuse you of watching prnz.
all in all, this might hurt the president in one or two states. OTOH, mittens is going to be forced to tack rightward and talk about ‘teh horribles gayes’ for the next 2 months, so his attempt to tack to the center is going to be slowed down a lot, which hurts him.
mittens knows his only chance at winning is to talk nothing but the economy until november, cause everything else is electoral poison for him. this move pushes him further back towards his own endzone.
i think it’s basically a wash, electorally. and if it’s a wash, being on the side of equality and fairness makes it a win.
@Cato: Maybe Mitt will adopt the Santorum-esque posture against all p0rnography. That’s sure to endear him to working class white people, a demographic known for rarely looking at the stuff.
@4tehlulz: Goddamn I love him.
You don’t get out much, do ya?
@bago: heh. win.
It’s not the same thing. A state referendum is different than a presidential election. Obama’s popular in Virginia.
You never look at state economies. The Ohio economy (for example) is doing better than the national economy because of the auto industry rescue, as is Michigan. That’s why Obama’s doing okay in Ohio and Michigan. You don’t even stick with your own argument. “It’s the economy stupid, but I won’t look at state economic situations”.
I don’t have any respect for you even as a political hack :)
Honestly? I think it’s an interesting move politically, and my hope is it sends the rigid, intensely conventional and risk-averse Romney campaign into panic-mode. What do they say now? It’s not about the economy, it’s about gay marriage? Romney just finished weeks of annoying whining that we were trying to change the subject from the economy.
Romney’s not a leader, and you know it. He’s a follower. He’s having a nervous breakdown right now, and, as usual, he’s reacting to a move by Barack Obama.
eric trolled the fuck out of all of us (in a good way).
Well played, sir. Well played indeed.
Today, Obambi just lost NC, VA, OH, and PA, and put MI and WI in serious, serious jeopardy.
All so he could appease 4% of the population.
oh my god why do you people keep replying to Cato???
BTW just out of curiosity, I looked at the Scranton-Oshkosh Corridor on a map.
It looks a bit like a crescent. Is Cato sending secret signals of approval to the Islamofascist Kenyan usurper?
@Kay: And the panic is obvious in the fact that he immediately called a press conference.
Yeah, yeah, we heard you the first two times, numbnuts. I’ll get back to you when there’s more basis in fact for that then the ravings of an internet troll.
@Martin: Given the current composition of the federal government, I don’t have much hope that a federal marriage policy would be more progressive than a state by state one. That was also one of the issues with the public option; would the federal health plan cover reproductive care? Not if Relublicans had anything to say about it, and they would in fact have a lot to say.
Hey, thanks for keeping my comment in moderation forever. Maybe you can post it in a day or two once this thread is dead and buried. Haydenseek, +4. I thought this comment rather humorous. Well fuck me for not conforming to your algorithm. Now +5, but who’s counting?
I agree. I don’t know, but that’s what I guess.
Obama should have regulated guns. Everyone on earth thinks he did anyway. He missed a golden opportunity.
@Kay: Cato simply isn’t worth reasoned arguments, thoughtful analysis, or even complete sentences.
The appropriate response, is as always, mockery.
His id is a black hole under which no rational thought will ever escape. You might as well scream at a hurricane.
Obama just threw the issue to Romney who will undoubtedly screw it up by taking 3+ positions on it within the next 2 hours. His first response- well, I don’t support marriage or civil unions, but hospital visitations, that’s OK. A lousy response that will please nobody now that Obama has taken a clear position.
right now europe is going through its yearly economic meltdown. this is going to effect us as well – the market is going to slow down. i don’t think the us economy will go into recession, but it will slow a bit. not nearly as bad as europe.
normally, this gives mittens a chance to fluff up his feathers. after all, his claim to fame is knowing business even though his stance on things like the auto bailout are really going to grind him into the dirt, it’s still his strongest of a handful of admittedly weak suits.
this situation moves the campaign over to social issues. i’m not saying obama wins vs romney on this one, but romney is uncomfortable in this area. his previous statements on gay rights are going to come up and he’s going to try as much as he can to move the conversation elsewhere but the hardcore right is going to have a 2 month tantrum over this.
(1) Obama did the right thing
(2) It will cost him at least one swing state (Ohio) and perhaps the election.
@liz: He’s more entertaining than most parody trolls we get here.
Sweet christ, everyone’s gotta ride their hobbyhorse on this, don’t they?
I think it’s pretty clear that the president has been using a “softening up” approach on this issue since he took office. First declaring support for civil unions, then pushing for DADT repeal, then telling the DOJ to stand down on defending DOMA…for all those who are carping that it “wasn’t soon enough,” these kinds of things happen when the winds are blowing in the right way, same as on civil rights. LBJ probably wouldn’t have pushed it if not for the changing of prevailing opinions brought on by marches, demonstrations, etc. That’s just how these things work. The important thing is to have someone in office when those winds are blowing the right way who will not stand in the way.
As for being in favor of “letting the states decide,” the man is a constitutional scholar and knows damn good and well that DOMA won’t stand up to a challenge. Full faith and credit doesn’t just go away because one state feels like the marriage another state performed is icky. That is how this is going to get settled – just as soon as some legally married gay couple decides to move from MA to OK (though god knows why they would) and is denied equal treatment with other married couples. None of these anti-gay-marriage state constitutional amendments can stand without DOMA, because they all violate full faith & credit.
Such a coward. No mention of the practical, legal issue. “I believe” means absolutely nothing.
Conservative bigots are not going to accept that.
@staci: Congrats on having such an awesome life that you’d vote Republican to take away the joy of marriage from another couple. May we all be so lucky in life but with less bigotry and siding with people who hate you.
Villago Delenda Est
One word for this announcement:
Now, onward to policy issues that actually have a material effect on the vast majority of Americans.
@FlipYrWhig: It would defacto be more progressive, because it wouldn’t put a ceiling on what they would support, only a floor. That’s how civil rights policy works. All you are ever doing is banning restrictive policy without limiting state’s abilities to have more open ones.
In the case of health care policy like the public option, the fact that there’s something that must be funded complicates matters. If it was free, it could work the same way, but the cost acts like a natural deterrent to states expanding on federal policy. But even in that case, many states do for things like Medicaid. It doesn’t get it for everyone, but it gets more things for everyone and many more things for some. But compared to not having it, it’s unquestionably better.
Are you under the impression that if we ignored him, he’d go away?
If so, you don’t know our little troll. He gets paid by the post.
Agree. Like a good point guard, always moving, always keeping your dribble, continually wrong-footing your opponent. I expect to see a lot more of this between now and Nov.
rMoney’s making his statement…marriage is between a man and woman…. states can do what they want. I cannot stand this guy and, yet, I feel sorry for the mofo. I think it’s the bleeding heart compassionate liberal in me.
Scalia is 76 years old. There’s a very good chance the winner in November picks his replacement. The last few picks replaced moderate or swing justices. It would be nice to have a Dem in the White House when the conservatives start dropping.
Can you say President Romney?
Villago Delenda Est
Given your predictions about how the Romneybot would take Colorado and Minnesota, I’m just quaking with fear.
Mittens the shitstain is going down. He’s taking your loathsome carcass with him.
Cato = Sadly, No!’s “The Truth.”
Same old foolishness about the Bradley Effect, too.
Bookmark it, Troofus. You’re still laughable.
Economy also poison for Mitt. Other than being Bush, Jr. Part II: More Tax Cuts, the Sequel, he has nothing of an economic vision for this country.
It’s only a matter of time before people start figuring out he has nothing new to offer on the economy, despite the best efforts of reporters to hide this fact.
You got it just right. I’m still laughing.
Tell the bigots in Tennessee what you think …
yet he’s notably ahead of mittens in VA.
maybe this isn’t the winning issue you think it is. maybe it distracts shitty mitty from the slowing economy.
All I can say is… Wheeee
Mitten’s issued a strong statement against Obama
haha…He’s pointing out that it’s the one thing he hasn’t flip-flopped on. hahahahhahahahahaha
edit..must thank tpm
That’d be 2016 or 2020. Scalia and Thomas will tough it out, as long as they are able to because they don’t want to be replaced by a Democrat appointment.
Look for Ginsberg to drop out before either of them, because of her health problems and age.
I don’t think it will matter to Democrats here. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve never gotten a lot of anti-gay energy from them. Some of them are racists, some of them are insane on immigration, some of them are anti-abortion, some of them are gun nuts, but I’ve never gotten a real strong “defense of marriage!” vibe.
We’ll see, I guess.
“I have the same view on ___ that I had when I was Governor,”
This from the NY Times comments on Obama’s announcement:
Yawn. Black voters are not going to stay home. They are not going to vote for Romney even if he makes Condi Rice his VP choice and second wife.
And there is a long list of gay, black Civil Rights movement champions who would, I think, be applauding Obama right now. Among them, Barbara Jordan, James Baldwin, and most of all, Bayard Rustin, one of the primary organizers of the March on Washington.
Commie. [email protected]@got. [email protected]@er.
@Cato: You’re a jittery little thing, aren’t you?
yes, i can. just like i can say ‘president goldwater’. what’s your point?
@The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik: Fair enough. Do you know a lot of people with soft support for gay marriage that would turn against it now?
(I ask, because up here, it’s almost a non-issue. Every so often there’s worries that some backbencher might try to bring a motion forward, but the PM—who is against same-sex marriage—has actually been shooting the idea down because he knows it will just hurt him.)
Do you think it’s strong? I think it’s muted. He’s not going to beat on this, which is fascinating all by itself.
It’s Romney (the liar) so I should amend that. He’s not going to beat on this nationally or publicly or in any way that could be tied to him. I expected much stronger.
@Martin: I take your point, but I don’t see how a federally-defined policy on marriage that was able to attract enough Republican votes to pass would be any better than the worst state policy now. And, as was said in the infamous DOMA brief, states currently have different definitions of things like consanguinity and age of consent. Would standardizing such things ever work in a progressive direction? I suspect we’ll have to have a Loving v. Virginia on same-sex marriage before it stands any chance of being accepted by the more conservative states.
I guess you didn’t read the thread. The comments are right there in black and white, they’re not imaginary.
I am tickled Teletubby lavender over this!
dude knows his earlier statements on gay rights are going to be scrutinized. he’s working the refs.
Because politicians need to get elected. Energize the base a year ago and (as you may have noticed) they’ll have entirely forgotten about anything you might have said or accomplished by the time the campaign starts.
It’s not like the POTUS has any ability to actually do anything about marriage law. So there’s no downside to waiting and lots of political upside.
Also, Romney gave him a huge opportunity with his foreign policy adviser mess-up. And then again by putting his foot firmly back in his mouth responding to Biden. There’s no room, even for Romney, to soften his position and try to dissipate the energy Obama can generate from this.
Geez, now you can’t even be bothered to come up with your own talking points and have to plagiarize from the commenters here. How sad is that?
@4tehlulz: I thought the same thing. Any statement by Romney that includes a phrase like “the same beliefs” or the like just re-confirms his image as a chameleon.
@Kay: Sorry, I was being sarcastic. Mitt holds his etch a sketch close these days.
Sure. He *personally* wouldn’t have changed the constitution to keep the queers at the back of the bus. He doesn’t like to make waves, you know.
But when North Carolinians choose to do so, that’s the sacred practice of State’s Rights! Not anything an activist judiciary ought to stick its interfering nose into!
@gogol’s wife: The ratio in this thread of people complaining about liberal critics of Obama, to actual liberal critics of Obama, is at least 10:1.
You people’s obsession with “firebaggers” is truly a thing to behold.
When the haters in Wisconsin put something similar to North Carolina’s anti gay ammendment on the ballot it passed easily, yet the Dem governor (Doyle) won re-election and many state legislature seats flipped to D. I am not sure why this would put WI in play with these previous results.
I’m glad you’re mature enough to admit that you were RIGHT ALL ALONG, SUCK IT OBOTS.
I wonder if it’s strong enough for religious conservatives. Let’s hope they all start berating him to DENOUNCE and he does that horrible pleading, needy “please like me!” thing he’s so good at :)
and don’t forget Neenah! that’s where Kotex is made! VICTORY!
Big win for Obama is that the GOP convention is going to be 4 days of gay hate, where Santorum is going to give a speech that will make Pat Robertson’s 1992 speech look like “My Pet Goat”.
Romney will have to tack right and pay a lot of attention to this because the wingers just don’t trust him on it.
@Trurl: You do realize that the President does not control the State judiciary? Right?
@matryoshka: Weren’t they all sorta gay though? Are they still on? Years ago when I was under a lot of stress I’d put the Telletubbies on. It didn’t even turn me gay.
Bet Mitt Romney flip-flops on this issue in 5 .. 4… 3…
VICTORY SCRANTON_OSHKOSH CORRIDOR ETC.
Again, I’m puzzled as to why the more-liberal-than-thou types always seem to be thirsting for a federal dictatorship. Didn’t we try that with Bush? Didn’t work out so well, as I recall.
But yeah, it’s all fine and dandy until we get a Republican president who rolls back the progress that every liberal state has made, because hey, the Democrat did it to North Carolina! Both sides do it, doncherknow. Christ, you guys are morons.
I don’t think the Obama team does anything without looking at the entire political calculus, so I think I’m going to have to say that they did all of the math and figured out that doing it this way would not be particularly harmful to either future marriage efforts or his upcoming election. It’s far enough away from the election to be a non-issue by the time November rolls around but close enough to energize Obama supporters now when the campaign is looking for volunteers and donations.
And I honestly don’t think there are a significant number of people who would have supported gay marriage until Obama came out in favor of it and ruined it for them.
@ruemara: He’s mad because Obama doesn’t personally ask him what to do, like things ought to be.
@Kay: Romney does have trouble keeping his truthisms correct. That darn etch a sketch keeps erasing itself.
Pretty much the polling must have said that everyone thinks he supports marriage equality already. Which we all know was true.
So he got it out of the way in May. As soon as a shark attacks a white girl the issue will disappear.
BTW, Shep Smith is awesome.
That’s okay, I’m not trying to convince you, believe whatever you want.
Particulary with young urban professional gay men, that would have to be pretty rich.
Gay couples often bring home a good chunk of change.
They’re what we affectionately refer to as D.I.N.K. s
Dual Income, No Kids.
It’s not uncommon to see a gay household have 3 or 4 times the disposable income compared to the majority.
Which is good news for
Right back at ya. The “left” is amazing when people don’t agree with them – hell, you can’t tell them from the right then.
pseudonymous in nc
Better trolls, please.
@Nellcote: once legislation does not come forward and once the do-nothing Congress does nothing…POTUS will be held accountable.
David in NY
Has the phrase “self-hating gays” been taken?
Romney’s strong statement is essentially: ” I have not changed my views on this fundamental moral principle since I have been, um um um, running for President, um, for, Pete’s sake!”
Mitt is as predictable as a broken clock, lie, evasion, fudge and sneak wise.
James E. Powell
I expect the firestorm over this issue to have fully run its course before Memorial Day.
People who hate Obama will have another reason to say why they hate him without having to mention that he is black.
People who complain that Obama has not done enough about LGBT rights will switch to something else that he hasn’t done enough about.
People who make lists of Obama’s positives will add this to the list but be disappointed to learn that no one cares anymore.
So you’d rather vote for a man whose church banned Black men from becoming ministers until 1978 due to their natural inferiority?
Hey, if you hate gays and lesbians so much that you’d prefer to vote for Mitt Romney, that’s your business, but you can’t expect people not to point out that this is pretty clearly a completely irrational choice on your part.
@staci: Funny that people should respond to abject self-defeating bigotry with such vitriol, huh?
oh the humanity!
@Cato: I think a lot of porn-watchin’ white blue-collar guys (and gals) out there would beg to differ.
As for myself, I dunno about animals, but this one time I dated a chick who could do ALL the stops on the ol’ “Scranton-to-Oshkosh corridor” like a goddamn champ, and lemme tell you, it was mind-blowing.
A friend sent me the politico story on the President’s statement. Unfortunately I continued to read the comments. Holy shit, has politico always attracted the dregs of the right-wing nutjobs?
I’d pay to see that. Nice trick.
I have prejudices, kinda like everybody else – sue me. I actually just spent an hour on the phone with my youngest daughter (she is 28) trying to “show me the error of my ways”.
As an observation, you people really go all right wing when somebody doesn’t agree with y’all. So much for conversation, debate and differences of opinion.
Another Halocene Human
@4tehlulz: Shep is on contract. Pay or play.
@JPL: It would have turned me gay, but my magic purse collection was already huge, so no effect was noticeable.
@Mnemosyne: Thank you. The Chicken Littling in here is out of control.
>I have prejudices, kinda like everybody else – sue me.
Are you involved in hiring? Someone might take you up on that.
@staci: bigotry is not a difference of opinion. It’s stupidity and hatred, and you deserve to be mocked for it. You’re no better than a racist. Sad, pathetic, self defeating bigotry doesn’t deserve the respect one would assign to a reasonable disagreement.
If you had even a modicum of self-awareness, you’d be ashamed of yourself.
As I said earlier, your children must be SOO proud.
@Surly Duff: Yeah, it’s like Yahoo for the inside-the-beltway crowd.
@Surly Duff: Pretty much every professional media site attracts horrible commenters, except for some of the more obscure left-leaning sites (MoJo, WaMo, etc.).
Yeah, we’re funny that way. Naked, unthinking bigotry and mindless drivel tends to bring out the worst in us. Go figure.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Bless your little heart. It’s sad you have the issues you have. I’ll pray for you.
“Right wing” in what way? Do we declare ourselves adamantly opposed to civil rights for an arbitrary minority group? Because that sounds pretty damn right wing to me.
You guys must be psychic friends to have determined that by not voting for Obama that means I’m voting for Romney. Not a single one of you flamethrowing bitches so much as asked where I was coming from, you made an assumption and ran with the insults. There isn’t a hair’s worth of difference between you guys and the flippin’ Tea Party.
David in NY
@staci: guess if this costs Obama the election it will be because of people who are like you pretend to be
@staci: Okay, debate us, “52-year-old black woman born on the South Side of Chicago” (I assume you originally had “Harlem,” but thought this would somehow be subtler). Explain to us why verbally supporting marriage equality makes Obama a worse lookout for your interests than Romney. Show your work.
As an observation, you personally really go all right wing when it’s someone else’s rights that are in play, don’t you?
I’ve never been much for conversation, debate or differences of opinion with bigots. What can I say? I have prejudices just like everyone else!
(Because obviously, being prejudiced against gay people because of the sexual orientation they were born with, is EXACTLY like being prejudiced against people who don’t like gay people and dedicate their politics to making life miserable for them with no provocation at all).
Yes. On a related note, I read the comments on Althouse the other night (don’t ask, but I couldn’t stop once I got started).
Jesus. What an absolutely irredeemably nasty group of people she has assembled in that “salon” she’s running.
They’re all the assholes from law school, all concentrated on one site. You’ll lose any faith in humanity, going there. Just toxic.
You owe a huge debt to gay people, black, white, yellow, red, rainbow, who were at the forefront of the Civil Rights movement.
When are you going to pay up?
Just an observation. No bashing.
@staci: Did you live in Florida in 2000?
@shortstop: Ditto. I actually laughed when I read that.
David in NY
@shortstop: Funny, her comment reads like it was originally composed for the Penthouse forum, doesn’t it?
@ABL: I’m fairly certain that staci is a white repuke male who is playing concern troll. But it’s fun to play along sometimes. Nobody plays the WOE IS ME victim card like a privileged white male.
@David in NY: Oh dear God….
@Mnemosyne: Okay, now this has been extrapolated out to who I hate from somebody who has formed an opinion from a twenty word post. How in the hell did you get that from me not agreeing with Obama endorsing gay marriage? You guys need help.
@gaz: I think she’s actually a writer for Girls.
It actually is if you’re a half-informed, bully-impersonating-a-victim winger–note that these are the same talking points that claim that all mentions of race are equal and that pointing out someone’s racism is “playing the race card.” Remarkably few of the people who believe this, however, have “previously unquestioned votes for Obama.”
Another Halocene Human
I feel like he’s also gaining support with the military and military families. Does anyone else see this?
Anecdata, but a coworker with an Army daughter has gone from being massively butthurt that Obama didn’t stop the wars the day after his inauguration to being a major booster. And I think I saw a figure last week showing increasing support among servicepeople.
Also, too, early this year Obama had doubled his support among evangelicals. He went from 11% to 22%. Kekekeke.
@staci: Keep saying the same thing. It really shows that you’re interested in an intelligent debate.
@gaz: I hope you’re not a betting man because you would lose. Do ya need pictures? hahahaha
@David in NY: Minus any interesting content, for sure.
@staci: I really don’t need you to google anything for me, kthx.
@4tehlulz: Please point out to me the single individual that didn’t come back to me with an insult that was open to debate. There’s one opinion here and anybody that doesn’t agree with it gets post-slammed. Funny.
David in NY
I rather think A is the answer to B.
Another Halocene Human
Human beings are social creatures. As more people in leadership positions and prominent people (like Shep Smith–I knew there was a reason I liked him) openly support glbt rights and their right to exist, a good deal of the population will take that as their cue.
It’s easier for me as a gay person feeling that I won’t be attacked for being out. I’ve always supported SSM but it took several years to feel comfortable calling myself married in large part because I feared upsetting people and drawing negative reactions.
Ellen DeGeneres got absolutely castigated and crucified in the press and by “Real Merika” when she came out, but with her coming out, and Rosie O’Donnell, the concept isn’t so shocking to people now.
@shortstop: yeah, don’t you just love the need for someone to put all that out there as if that shields them from any comments. And yes, we sho’ do got all right wing when we don’t agree, girlfriend!!
This black woman is very happy to hear the president say what he did today. And yeah, I vote
And as for the Log Cabin Republican queens and their twisted statement…have you any dignity left?
@Davis X. Machina: If Shipyard’s local to you, why’re you calling it “Sharpsburg”, Secesh?
Great beer, great state. ;)
@staci: For someone who whines that no one will listen to your full position, sir, you sure are resistant to explaining it.
pseudonymous in nc
“staci”: Biggus Dickus in drag.
@Another Halocene Human:
Very interesting. I would speculate that his support is mostly from the enlisted, which tend to be more politically diverse and less politically engaged on average than the officer corps, from what I’ve been told. Not that it matters, it’s good news either way.
(Man, it’d be nice to have a military that voted Democratic…)
Many people have pointed out since 2008 that the younger generation of evangelicals tends to be less monolithic, less racially prejudiced and more diverse in their interests (e.g. focused on more than just abortion and gay marriage) than their parents’ generation.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see their age as a solid Republican voting bloc come to an end. I don’t think we’ll ever flip them all, or even come close, but I think we can siphon off enough of them that they won’t be reliably partisan anymore (kind of like Catholics these days, who’re split right down the middle and vote pretty much the way the country as a whole votes).
You’re such a bot ABL. :P <3
@shortstop: Fuck you, shortstop – how is that for debate. You flippin’ toss out an insult first and then pretend you really want to discuss my opinions. Again, fuck you and all that are like you.
What a telling remark!
Davis X. Machina
@TOP123: Not sneaky enough with “Antietam”…
@pseudonymous in nc: I can’t believe how many people I’ve sent to this blog – jeez, I should have hung around more before I did. You guys give new meaning to term group think.
@staci: Shouldn’t that be “Flip you”? No, I really don’t give a shit about your opinions, but you insisted that you wanted to explain yourself. Given how hard (and ineffectively) you’re scrambling to avoid doing so, seems you were lying about that as much as about your age, race and gender. You really didn’t think this through before you started, did you?
Another Halocene Human
@Gator90: Seconded, although since he is a moderate to conserva dem he may have genuinely believed that civil unions were the appropriate “third way” since the backlash against SSM was too strong. A lot of dyed-in-the-wool Dems (including my dad!) thought this after watching SSM in HI and VT go down in flames. Fortunately Massachusetts proved them wrong.
Was he being coy? Hell yeah. I think his timing is perfect and I hope he elicits the usual failsauce response from the Right. They’re really pinned in, actually, perhaps hoping to push an emoprog pushback because it is so, so obvious that this is what Obama is doing this time. SSM opposition is a demographic millstone around the GOP’s neck.
Where are you coming from?
[[ “The president stressed that this is a personal position, and that he still supports the concept of states deciding the issue on their own.”
Well, before Roe v. Wade, abortion was a state-by-state issue, too. So was slavery. There are 44 states in which gay men and women are currently barred from marrying one another. Obama’s position is that, while he would have voted the other way, those 44 states are perfectly within their rights to arbitrarily restrict the access of certain individuals to marriage rights based solely on their sexual orientation.
That is a half-assed, cowardly cop-out. …
Equality is not a state-by-state issue. There is no reason other than ignorance and hatred that two men can get married in New York and not North Carolina. At a time when vindictive hucksters are rolling out anti-gay marriage amendments across the nation, and when conflicting state and federal laws portend an insoluble morass of divorce, custody, and estate issues, and when gay Americans are turning to the U.S. Constitution and the courts to seek an affirmation of their humanity, “it’s a state-by-state issue” is a shameful dodge. …
This was obviously a hastily arranged interview—we’re told that ABC News’ Robin Roberts, who is close to Michelle Obama, was only tapped in the last 48 hours by the White House to come down—designed to clean up the mess left by Biden’s pro-gay marriage comments in as advantageous way as possible. And for Obama to declare that he considers North Carolina and other states’ bans on gay marriage to be unconstitutional would probably energize the GOP base. But those bans are unconstitutional. And anyone who supports their legitimacy—as Obama just did, in no uncertain terms—even if they oppose the policy, is adopting the retrograde position in the contemporary gay marriage debate. Obama is moving backward, not forward. ]]
David in NY
@staci: That’s just the problem here, staci, say really stupid stuff that doesn’t even sound true and you’ll get slammed. Try it again some day. By the way, you were asked to explain your position — “Explain to us why verbally supporting marriage equality makes Obama a worse lookout for your interests than Romney. Show your work.”
But all you can do is say what a victim you are, like certain other groups with whom we don’t agree.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Hey! I loaded the page and got this 404 error:
Has the manic progressive left compiled a list of how Obama has once again failed on this issue?
Sorry, couldn’t resist… :p
Another Halocene Human
@Calouste: Are you kidding? Log Cabin Republicans are Bosie all the way.
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the odious GOPROUD, LCR’s younger, hipper (hangin’ with Coulter, ya), Tea Partier-er counterpart.
David in NY
@Trurl: So it’s a cop out, and you have a better plan. What’s the plan?
That is — Explain the federal actions that Obama could take and that would be constitutional, without a further constitutional amendment (or the confirmation of more liberal Supreme Court justices).
Somebody’s always got to piss in the punch bowl because there’s not enough Vodka in the punch.
@handy: For the win
And evangelical elders know this damned well, which is why they’re putting so much effort into creating constitutional amendments that are much harder to overturn than laws. It’s a last stand. In a generation, this opportunity will not exist for them.
Another Halocene Human
Them folks alluhs struck me as being more down with the faggots than messicans or colored people.
Bruce Villanche didn’t took er jerbs or their healthcare (the illegals are making our health costs go up!!!!111 *fearmonger fearmonger*)
Some “ethnic” whites are still pissed at Blacks for scabbing, even though Blacks weren’t allowed in craft unions. Although it morphed into other claims, that’s where the emnity started.
Another Halocene Human
Republican Lesbians have their own club. It’s called HRC.
David in NY
My dear Staci — way, way back about 50 comments ago, somebody asked you to explain yourself:
“Explain to us why verbally supporting marriage equality makes Obama a worse lookout for your interests than Romney. Show your work.”
So go right ahead instead of saying how bad everybody here is, since what you said so far is pretty indefensible on its face — but maybe you’ve got a good explanation. You’ve had plenty of time, but here’s another chance. Take it or leave it.
Another Halocene Human
@Another Halocene Human: Brooksian moderates!!!
Ordovician Bighorn Dolomite (formerly rarely seen poster Fe E)
That might be the best and most accurate comment ever to occur on the internets.
@David in NY: I think he had to catch the 5:50 to Ossining after his retirement party. The watch is pretty nice, but gold would’ve looked better than silver with his pasty skin.
Forum Transmitted Disease
This is what Romney should have said, the fundies don’t trust him at all.
But no…it was Rick Santorum. Still kicking the shit out of Romney even after dropping his candidacy.
Wonder how many more knives Rick’s got waiting for Romney’s back? I’m betting quite a few. He seems like the sore loser type.
One who might not have a problem seeing Romney lose.
You said that you will now have trouble voting for Obama because of his public support for gay marriage. Your other option is to vote for Romney.
So do you have any other reasons why it would be in your best interest to vote for Romney that you haven’t articulated here, or is it based solely on gay marriage and you don’t care about any of other of Romney’s other stances as long as he’s willing to hate on gays enough for your taste?
I’ll try to explain something about myself to you. I was a kid in the waning days of Jim Crow and all the shit that went down around Civil Rights. I was raised to see people as just that, people – so I could not understand racism, I liked or didn’t like people because of how they were. Easy to say as an upper middle class white boy; but also a fact. I didn’t care about race because these people were my fellows.
I’m hetero-sexual and frankly I could care less than not at all about homosexual acts – I find it distinctly unattractive. I also cannot be in the same room where liver is being cooked. These people are my fellows and I can see no reason why they should be denied the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities I have. Liver makes me want to throw up – you shouldn’t be able to eat it because of me?
I have friends of all races and various sexual orientations and I do care about their happiness. My black friends don’t give a shit that I don’t like hip-hop or rap and my gay friends don’t want me to go to bed with them – we let the little shit go.
You seriously propose, from your position as a member of a minority and one that is despised by a good portion of the population, that you should be able to react in the same biggoted framework manner and not get called on it? You propose to oppose treating your fellows as your equals and not get ganged up on? You propose that you can explain that?
@Trurl: Um, this is rather stupid. And it has to do with the nature of the word “support.” Obama didn’t, in fact, support the passage of the same-sex marriage ban in North Carolina, he opposed it. He now says he supports same-sex marriage as a personal view. But does he “support” the right of states to make their own rules on marriage? Well, insofar as that’s the clear precedent, what else can he say? States do, in fact, currently observe different standards and laws on marriage, including what counts as consanguinity and what counts as underage. Do you want him to say that there should be a one-size-fits-all federal marriage statute? What would that look like, and how would it get passed? Or are you just looking for reasons to kvetch?
I don’t see this hurting President Obama very much.
First off, are there really that many people who love Obama but hate the gays? I’m pretty sure that the kinds of people who hate gay marriage–hate it to the point where it decides who they vote for–aren’t voting for President Obama anyway.
On that front, as Kay pointed out, President Obama was already pretty pro-LGBT. Anyone who hates the gays enough to let that be what decides their vote probably already thought that President Obama was too gay-friendly and wasn’t going to vote for him anyway.
Still, I expect this will lead to a ton of baseless concern trolling about African-Americans and Hispanics leaving the Obama camp. It’s like how, every election cycle, there’s concern trolling about how Jewish voters will leave the Democrats because the GOP is so “strong” on Israel. And yet, every election cycle Jewish voters still go overwhelmingly Democratic–because they’re actual human beings, not one-dimensional single-issue interests.
Are you insane, or just delusional?
I know, it’s so weird that we won’t debate whether or not gay people deserve to have the same civil rights as everyone else. It’s almost like we think they’re full human beings or something.
Shorter Staci: “Y’all are just a bunch of anti-bigot bigots!”
Seiously, Staci, please listen to your daughter. She’s right.
@John Arbuthnot Fisher: I thought the exact same thing when I watched Biden!!
Just donated $100 to NOM. Donate!
And I will donate a $100 everytime Andrew Sullivan spews out another one of his bigoted comments.
Too bad, it was a great day until I scrolled past the president’s announcement and saw his latest bigoted comment.
This may seem assbackards to you but some people will not learn until they are hurt as bad they are hurting others. It took him less that 30 years to achieve and surpass the equality most African Americans still don’t have in this country. FUCK him.
Finally, I’m sorry to the people this will hurt, but you have your hobby horses and I have mine.
As opposed to inbred freaks like you who wouldn’t even be born if their mother and her brother didn’t get busy.
I kind of doubt this is a deal breaker with very many blacks. It may cost him a very small fraction of evangelical blacks, but I think that is outweighed by the gains with the LGBT community. I also think that some blacks who were opposed to same sex marriage may rethink there position based on Obama coming out.
I wish that the above was an easily proven statement, but I fear it is not. That which is considered constitutional is either directly described in the Constitution or has acquired an understanding of being constitutional through court or legislative action. You wishing that the bans are unconstitutional does not make the cut. Sorry.
Today, the President did what he had to do, what he should have done some time ago since he was beginning to look silly and disingenuous. Turl, this is a move forward, a move toward the powerful and positive leadership he will need to exert in the future.
For anyone who hasn’t, Staci, seen this…
I suspect that any African-Americans who say they won’t vote for Obama over this stance voted for McCain in 2008 because McCain was “pro-life.”
There’s a link in there, somewhere…
I could say about the President’s statement, “Well, it is about time,” but I also doubt that he wasn’t inetellectually, at least, already there quite awhile ago. Legalistically I doubt it means much, though equal treatment under the law does have teeth. I’d bet that politically/electorally it is seen as a wash and that allowed it.
Society wise I think it is a good thing to have done, it is a large figure making an endorsement and while it may not change minds, it makes more respectable the entire concept.
Man, shut the fuck up.
You, too, staci.
Obama will never get west Virginia’s electoral college electors now.
Seriously, not to sound cynical, but I think this whole thing (Biden, sec HUD, Obama) was preceded by some very rigorous battleground polling which showed, at worst, no political downside. Of course, I believe his opinion on the subject has been quite a bit more “evolved” than he let on.
That being said…huzzah!
You’ve been felating Romney nonstop for six months.
Villago Delenda Est
And goat-fucker Cato says this from personal experience!
The prophet Nostradumbass
@burnspbesq: You didn’t read,the whole thread, did you?
David in NY
@shortstop: Nah, he’s long been retired — needed plenty of time to watch Fox and attend extra church to develop his warped views.
@The prophet Nostradumbass: What else is new?
I’m sorry to the people this will hurt
No you’re not.
If it was, then who cares? Social movements have never been led by the guys at the top anyway. It’s not like LBJ was the very first civil rights agitator. What I think is that politicians wait for expedient moments to fight for issues not because they’re cowards, but to try and prevent the issues from collapsing or backfiring due to the political environment at the time.
Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn
Since everyone else is weighing in, I didn’t want to be on the outside looking in:
Yay! I knew that’s where he was, but didn’t think he’d come out with it first term. Damn fine president.
@Cato Love seeing you give in to your hate, letting it control you, letting it rot you from the inside of your liver till it covers you in infected pustules.
But then, I’m easily amused.
Villago Delenda Est
@Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn:
It’s all a part of the Chancellor Palpatine/Darth Sidious UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH! thing that he’s had going for the past four months. The full package, as it were.
You are a sadistic, sick, vicious excuse for a person.
You’ve never had someone you love try to commit suicide over the phone. Then you call and get the ambulance there and save their life. But their parents keep you out of the hospital so you don’t even know if they survive. This is a person you would marry if it was legal but because you can’t, their parents have final say.
You’ve never lost the right to see your children because your partner who had the baby is the birth mother and if you split up, it’s her child and not yours.
You have no heart and no soul and I pity anyone you love because it’s wasted on you.
Odie Hugh Manatee
One interesting thing about this development is that while the right is going to abuse this issue to no end in their attempt to defeat Obama and the Democrats this fall, as long as Obama was (relatively) quiet on this issue then the right only had to deal out the usual bullshit they love to deliver. Now that Obama has staked out his position on this, it introduces another variable into the election that the right has to deal with somehow. Obama tossed this in their laps and now the Republicans have to pamper the foaming-at-the-mouth knuckledragging religious zealots on their side. If the past is any guide, we can expect the religious right to crank the volume knob right past 11, probably ripping it off in the process.
As the saying goes, ‘Timing is everything’. It’s going to be interesting to see how this all unfolds.
It was the right thing for the Pres to do.
Signing the Civil Rights Act was the right thing for President Johnson to do and all those Dixicrats became Republicans.
How many Democrats will vote for Romney now and become Republicans?
Even some of the commenters at Queerty…yes QUEERTY are saying that Obama should have kept his mouth shut until the election because he just handed the election to Romney.
If gay people won’t support him, who will?
I don’t regret what Obama did. What I do regret is that doing the right thing won’t be enough for some people and too much for others.
I’m reaching a point where I just really, really hate politics.
Obama did this for three good reasons: To energize his base, to get some cash, and to win over a share of independents. 57% of independents favor gay marriage; that 7% is a big deal this election. He’ raised a million dollars as of an hour or so ago. And the chatter alone tells you what’s happening to the base.
There’s almost no chance he’ll lose many votes over this because those opposed to gay marriage were already solid Rs. The tribalism runs too deep in America now.
If he’d announced before the NC vote, then it wouldn’t have been about gay marriage – the NC vote would have been a referendum on Obama’s leadership, a referendum he would have been very likely to lose, and this would have become a political loss.
Obama timed it just right, and he did the right thing, and I’m dead certain he did the political math before he made this announcement. Let’s say it once again, folks.
EDIT: And in case there were any doubts, the e-mail from Obama about the gay marriage interview/asking for a donation just hit my mailbox. “Hastily timed, reluctant interview” my ass. Planned from the get go, all of it, up to and including Biden’s “gaffe”. Apparently, Obama has a plan to get elected. Deal.
Do you seriously think this was not poll tested in even the reddest of purple states. You are dumb as straw.
@The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of compassion: Dude, don’t make me cry.
What sick piece of crap is this? Derf?
No, but I’ve had ancestors who were enslaved. I’ve had ancestors who were lynched. I’ve had ancestors who were beaten to death. I’ve had ancestors who were denied their civil rights and driven to the despair of alcoholism, drugs and yes suicide. All because they were black. Personally, I’ve been followed, questioned and detained, I’ve been denied jobs and promotions, again for the crime of being black in America.
I’m sorry if my comments seems harsh, but on the same page that that great gay warrior Andrew Sullivan crows about an African American president defending his rights to marry he publish a post defending a bigot. That seems pretty harsh to me.
Once again, I apologize for the pain, but I get the feeling that some won’t learn until they feel the pain of bigotry some of us have to suffer with daily.
Its called EMPATHY. If Sullivan won’t learn on his own, I’ll use any means necessary to teach it to him.
And unlike him, while I feel bad about what I’m doing I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not really caring who I hurt.
@Loviatar: So in other words, because one
blackgay man made a bigoted comment about your group, all blackgay men (and women) are wicked and must be punished? Or they aren’t all wicked but they must be punished anyway as necessary collateral damage to teach a lesson to that one blackgay man?
You know who else sought to punish an entire minority based on perceived slights against him by members of that minority?
And millions of Jews have been slaughtered but that didn’t stop Jews from marching with blacks for Civil Rights. But ok, you go on with your lack of empathy because of one gay man.
Jessie Jackson talked about “Hymietown” as a Jew should I hate all black people now?
Next excuse. Hate gay people all you want. Contribute to bigots all you want. I guess the next thing you’ll do is cheer whenever gay people die. Until you do it yourself.
@Loviatar: Good, throw away your money just to feed Maggie Gallagher’s fat maw. Because Sully’s going to continue to say stupid things, and you’re going to reward the same assholes who you claim side with the bigots that have made your life a living hell.
I hope you go broke. And that Michael Richards tries to Friend you.
Yep, kind of a fucked up situation isn’t it.
Now lets try a little empathy; live with that bigotry for your whole life. Have every living member of your family live with it for their entire lives. Have every member of your family as far back as you can trace it live with that bigotry for the entirety of their lives. Now take that feeling and at the moment you feel joy that another minority has moved forward in some small way against that bigotry a prominent voice in that minority decides to once again proclaim his bigotry against you and your family.
I’m sorry, unfortunately sometimes we are defined by those within our communities. As an African American I can tell you sometimes its for good, mostly its for bad. I’m done pussyfooting with Andrew Sullivan, my goal is to make him feel my pain. I know thats not right but its where I’ve been driven by his comments.
Gaz, straight married couples can be DINKs too. Not to take anything away from gay marriage but not all straight married couples have kids.
@karen: I know that. I was making a point specifically about the fact that many gay couples tend to have a lot of disposable income, and are by most measures, fairly wealthy. My DINK comment wasn’t really intended to be exclusive to gay folks, but I see how it came across that way. FWIW, I originally heard the term from my gay ex partner, so I suppose I make a natural association and that came across in my post. I know better, but I probably should have been more clear.
@staci: Putting the shoe on the other foot, would you be offended if I said “I’d certainly vote for Obama, but now that I know he’s black, I’m not so sure?”
That’s a pretty offensive remark. It appals me that you expect people to treat you with respect when you so readily disrespect others. One might even be lead to believe that you think gay people are some how less worthy of the basic human dignity that you’d certainly demand that people afford you.
“How many Democrats will vote for Romney now and become Republicans?”
You mean how many people will cut their noses off to spite their faces (just like they did in 2000 and 2010)?
Good question. I wish I had an answer, but I don’t.
The sad thing is that even though the President did the right thing (and even though he’s been the best US President when it comes to LGBT rights) he’s still going to get blasted by some on the Left because…well, they’ll find some reason.
“I’m reaching a point where I just really, really hate politics.”
I hear you on that. But if we don’t stay involved, the other side gets their way. They are a helluva lot more involved and it shows.
Another Halocene Human
@shortstop: Looking at the internals, looks like SSM has less support in NOVA than in urban NC.
This is why I think those butthurt about the NC vote need to grow up and take a deep breath and tell themselves it ain’t over yet.
I think NC could easily move in favor of gay rights before VA. (For one thing, VA is where anyone who works for the feds lives if they think MD is too liberal.)
The only reason I said that, Gaz, was because when SSM lost in NY before it won, one of the excuses given was that marriages are only for people to have children and at the time, I was thinking that by NY’s logic, marriage between straight couples who have no kids should be made illegal too. Which shows you how stupid I thought their excuse was and I’m glad it’s legal in NY now and hopefully in Maryland in November.
I am exceedingly late to this party, but I have to make something clear:
You know precisely jack shit about Pennsylvania. There is a reason why PA has not voted for a Republican candidate in 24 years. As far as November is concerned, the key is not Oshkosh-to-Scranton, or whatever the fuck you’re talking about. The key is the great city of Philadelphia and the surrounding suburbs. Philadelphia is rock solid blue, and the suburbs are moderately conservative at worst. So go to Scranton and bask in the homophobia all you want; it won’t make a difference come November.
Another Halocene Human
@karen: Well said.
Another Halocene Human
Dude, Andrew Sullivan is a racist piece-of-shit Tory who only cares about Andrew. Seriously, there is so much dirt on him and his utter lack of character, insight, perspective, whatever on the internet that it astounds me that people can say his name with a straight face. And everything just comes back to Andrew. He pulls dingleberries off his ass and holds them up for inspection. That’s his blog. “Look! I made a poopy!”
He is followed by his haters (a la McMegan) and also by liberals/moderates who have adopted him as their pet conservative/project (I can fix him!) as they feel agree with him on a lot of things and get frustrated when he fails to “get it” since he “gets it” on some hobbyhorse of theirs (on alternate Tuesdays, since he changes positions frequently AND THAT IS NOT A VEILED SEXUAL REFERENCE–BRAIN BLEACH! BRAIN BLEACH!).
I despise Sullivan, I’ve despised him from way back, but why obsess about him? Go read TNR and calm down or something. Sullivan is not worth your time. He will always be all “Fuck you, I got mine,” he will always be a peddler of “racial realism” (white supremacy lite), he will always shit on the less fortunate, he will always think his opinions come straight from god’s lips, he will always care about Andrew first. He doesn’t care about your anger. He certainly doesn’t care about your opinion. And he feeds off your continued attention to him.
I haven’t read a single Andrew Sullivan column/blog post in years and I feel just fine, thank you.
Another Halocene Human
Don’t you get it? Andy Pansy is not normal. He will never feel the pain you feel. For one thing, he is wealthy and privileged and not even from this country. Even if things go really south for gay rights (kinda unlikely) he can always move to Canada or back to England or whatever. NOTHING YOU CAN DO CAN HURT HIM.
But it’s worse than that. He’s a narcissist. He doesn’t feel empathy for others. You know what would hurt him? BEING IGNORED.
You know what annoys me? People like you who fall all over yourselves providing Andrew with his narcissistic supply.
Argh, I guess you just prompted me to do so as well. Excuse me, are you in fact Andrew Sullivan?
People! This ‘staci’ character is a fiction from the forces of evil, who is sent to try and big up the “black/gay” divide. Don’t fall for that shit.
Another Halocene Human
Honey. Darling. Please. You just said it yourself. Sully has no empathy.
Legions of psychiatrists have attempted to teach NPDs empathy with no success. (In fact, therapy is counter-indicated for NPD because it can make it worse.)
If you’re going to get revenge on Sully you’re going about it all the wrong ways.
You know what narcissists hate besides being ignored? Being ridiculed. Losing face.
Ridicule the shit out of his fucking ass. It’s the only way. Going apeshit just makes him feel more powerful. (“Thought leader,” “maverick”, etc.)
Andrew Sullivan does not care about you. He will not care about whatever you decide to do. The best case scenario for you is that, should he somehow find out what you’re doing, he will write a post about how it’s just too bad we all can’t get along and then he will go on doing whatever he wants. You’re spitting into a gale force wind, and hurting innocents in the process.
Here’s something I’m genuinely curious about: why do you care what Sullivan thinks? He’s selfish, and his defending Riley was totally wrong-headed. So what? He’s ONE MAN, and you don’t have to read his stuff. Why is it worth placing yourself on the wrong side of history to maybe offend some internet columnist?
ETA: I see that in the time it took me to write this, a number of other people said the same thing. Cool. I agree with everyone else that ignoring Sullivan is the only thing that can possibly affect him.
Another Halocene Human
@gaz: It’s kind of only half the picture because many gay families do raise children, gays are more likely to enter professions that don’t pay as well, lesbians are doubly burdened in facing wage discrimination, and gays and lesbians disproportionately live in poverty (perhaps in part due to parents cutting off financial support and hiring and wage discrimination).
@Another Halocene Human: / @Argive:
However much you try downplay his influence he does have more of a voice than most of us here (regular on TV, cited by the president, international following, regularly writes columns for international magazines/papers) and with that voice he has done more harm to African Americans (mainstreaming the Bell Curve, regularly defending bigots – NSR just the latest) than I could ever do to the gay cause. Through him racist now cite the pseudo-scientific Bell Curve as justification for their racist attitudes towards African American intelligence. He is the cultured British face to a lot of hatred and pain spewed at African Americans. If in some way I can cause him an iota of the pain he has caused me and mine, its been worth it.
Wouldn’t it make much more sense donating to the NAACP or whatever instead? I’m willing to bet there’s a fair few racists in NOM for one thing…