Heh. At an honest casino, losers have to leave the table:
(CBS/AP) Democratic U.S. Sen. hopeful Elizabeth Warren is calling on the CEO of JPMorgan to resign from the Board of Directors of the New York Federal Reserve Bank after the largest bank in the U.S. claimed a surprise $2 billion loss by one of its trading groups.
Warren, who is challenging Republican Sen. Scott Brown for the late Sen. Edward Kennedy’s former seat, helped create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She says in a statement Saturday that Americans are frustrated that Wall Street has not been held accountable for one of the biggest financial crisis in generations and doesn’t appear to consider itself responsible.
She says the resignation of JPMorgan’s Jamie Dimon would signal to Americans that “Wall Street bankers get it” and to “show that they understand the need for responsibility and accountability.”…
No offense, but why the fuck was this asshole on the BOD to begin with?
Makes me sick the way she tries to use real issues to distract voters from the stupid bullshit that people really care about.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Someone ought to have warned Ms Warren that Mr Dimon is a delicate little orchid, and she just might have made him cry. I won’t link cause I found this on Dick Halperin’s page.
so just stop all that attacking! He creates all things! Jamie Dimon is a god!
I doubt he will resign but I will be VERY disappointed if the shareholders do not send him packing.
He clearly deserves to be fired and made an example of. Especially since he has become one of the most vocal critics of financial reform. What goes around comes around and all that.
Resign, hell; fucker should jump.
Unless his bank account is zeroed out, there will be no example.
I just wonder what Dimon thinks the word ‘risk’ means. Last time I looked in the dictionary, it was not synonymous with “I win all the time.” No, really. Go look, see for yourself.
I’m not sure there are any shareholders for the NY Fed.
Gin & Tonic
He won’t resign or be fired from anything. From his chair, he gets to push people out the window, like Ina Drew, who directly oversaw the trading strategy that cost them $2B, and who’s out tomorrow. Some of you may want to ask whom she reports to, and why that doesn’t cost him his job, too, but that just shows you’re unsophisticated.
Warren is asking that Dimon resign from the NY Fed BoD, not Morgan/Chase.
This is entirely a political statement designed to turn the little guy against the big guy. Which I TOTALLY APPLAUD. More god damn power to you, Ms. Warren, because we’ve already got class warfare, and I’d like to see it become two-sided.
Gin & Tonic:
I don’t know, I think Warren is pushing this from the right angle. Dimon serves on the NY Fed BoD, elected by the member banks.
Since the Fed Reserve is a federal institution, to state the obvious, it should be well within the purview of the federal gov’t to request Dimon’s resignation — particularly since JP Morgan Chase is being investigated by the SEC for irregularities in the wake of a $2 billion loss (which is likely to go higher).
@Gin & Tonic:
She may have a soft landing. Depends on how much money she gets. I doubt she’ll be signing up for welfare.
Gin & Tonic
@Maude: Very soft. She made $14mil last year, so she doesn’t have to sign up for food stamps. Bruno Iksil is in the same ballpark.
I’m not crying for her. You play at the high-stakes table, and shit happens. I’m saying there is zero chance she took the positions she did without Dimon’s OK, and he will not lose his job.
You HAVE to read this, just published last week in Forbes:
“The outspoken executive, who has criticized Dodd-Frank on several occasions, directly attacked one of the most debated points of the proposed bill, the Volcker rule. Calling for the separation of commercial banking and proprietary trading (given the risks involved), the Volcker rule has been the target of Dimon’s wrath. On Thursday, Dimon explained “I’ve tried to tell Volcker the riskiest thing to do is making loans, which are 100% proprietary,” noting the arbitrariness of targeting one or another type of business.”
Wonder if Volcker sent JD a hale and hearty FUCK YOU note this past week.
This begs the question: “Why aren’t any of these fuckers in prison”?
@Gin & Tonic:
He may lose his job. The pressure is going to increase as details of what exactly happened come out. I don’t see how he can survive.
Villago Delenda Est
I still think the appropriate action to take is to draw and quarter Dimon on the steps of the NYSE.
@Maude: JD already cut loose the evildoers who obviously were guilty of betraying him. JD isn’t going anywhere.
That’s why I think he won’t make it. He is trying to offset blame. With his tempest in a teapot remark in early April, he’s got a problem.
As long as he was doing well, he was a god. Now, he’s in trouble.
I’ll watch this play our this week.
@arguingwithsignposts: Because member banks choose six of the nine members of regional FRBs’ BODs. That the head of the nation’s largest bank sits on the BOD is hardly an outrage, given its structure.
Not only is that not obvious, it’s wrong.
The Fed is independent for a lot of good reasons.
Tell us what crime they committed, and describe the evidence you plan to present to the jury.
Because what is morally and ethically wrong is not necessarily illegal. In fact, the whole point of deregulation is to make lots of illegal stuff legal, allowing banks to screw the world economy and not have done a single against the law. We’ve had tons of deregulation since Reagan took office.
Although since the DOJ is poking around, I have some hopes they’ll find actually illegal actions that were done around the edges because greedy bastards just can’t resist going over the line.
@Maude: They’ll keep rephrasing it as a loss of less than 1% of capital reserves, and that JPM is still going to make a lot of money this quarter. We made a stupid mistake, we’re fixing it, we’re getting better, etc.
JD will be fine.
Ah Whinin Jamie Dimon – we’re still a civilized country albiet one with multiple systems of laws depending on your income.
Please Professor Warren – release poor mr brown from his kneepads at Jamies throne.
@Villago Delenda Est:
And I’d like Rachel Maddow to renounce teh ghey and fly off to Maui with me for a romantic getaway.
I’m more likely to get what I want than you are.
From what I’ve gathered, Dimon is both pissed at the fuckup and embarrassed. The conference call announcing the fuckup was far from emotionless.
Problem as I see it is that the people to whom he’s most immediately accountable don’t want him to do anything – and they’d be pissed if he did any of the things that are being suggested. So even if he did agree with the ‘responsibility to the nation and public’ (a big if), the investment community disagrees with that responsibility. I’m not sure how you break that except to call on that community to perform some clear social role, even against their will. We needed to break the back of that group in 2008 and we didn’t. We’re going to have to do it at some point.
In our lifetimes? Something unfortunately tells me that’s not entirely true.
You should keep gathering. Dimon shoved more and more trades to the CIO “Whale” Desk because the commissions paid to the employees there was less than the fees paid to the trading desk.
JD knew what was going on. Don’t kid yourself. He may be pissed but that’s only because a $100B, yes $100B trade position went south and moved 2 points against JPM.
Yeah. Two fucking points but the trade position was so huge it distorted the market and left them currently down $2B. Who the fuck knows where they’ll end up when they are forced by vultures to unwind their sha-hooge position that every motherfucker and his mother knows they are in.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
What a jerk he is. No one is attacking a “work ethic”. We’re attacking the FACT that people like Dimon don’t respect or value any work but their own.
It’s WRONG to continue to claim that all business
success is due to the efforts of the top tier of management.
They’ve been selling this self-aggrandizing bullshit so long they buy it themselves, because they have to justify those enormous compensation packages. That doesn’t mean the rest of us have to fall for it.
I am so, so sick of the dishonest language. “Work ethic is under attack!” My. Ass.
Was US business worse off 30 years ago when executives were paid less, some lesser multiple of the rank and file salary? Of course not.
@burnspbesq: @Frankensteinbeck: I’m not speaking particularly of these fuckers from JP Morgan and this episode. I AM speaking of the CEO’s of firms who trashed the world economy. Like the CEO of AIG who defrauded the public.
Like the Accounting Firms who knowingly signed off on fraudulent financial reports. On Hedge Fund traders who LIED to investors.
Those, I believe, are crimes. I feel certain there is evidence out there that would convict them of crimes and place them in the hoosegow.
It’s independent to pursue whatever strategies it thinks best to fulfill it’s mandate of price stability and maximum employment (though it seems to be ignoring the latter).
Dimon, however, is an elected director (not appointed) by the member banks, whose bank has just come under scrutiny by the SEC for violations of the law.
Are you saying that Fed independence extends to illegal activities by its board members?
I’m pretty sure those aren’t crimes, though. Stuff like selling people investments you know they’ll lose on and you are betting they’ll lose on is not illegal. There’s one investigation going on because there’s a specific issue of how you present the documentation on them that can be illegal, but that if anything demonstrates how few laws there are. The only possible legal trouble is a variation on not filling out the forms correctly.
that was fast
This bankster oops must be Really Bad.
whatever. jpm was the rare institution that came through the crisis fairly unscathed. Dimon isn’t going anywhere.
@jpe: Unscathed in what respect, Charlie?
BTW, a resignation is voluntary, and that’s what Warren is calling for.
There is absolutely nothing stopping Dimon from resigning from that board.
I know it’s unimaginable that these folks could hold themselves to a higher standard than “it’s great as long as it’s not illegal” but, actually, they
Executives like Dimon could act responsibly on their own volition, without handcuffs and a perp walk. That’s what she’s asking him to do. He won’t, but he COULD.
For those who insist the gov isn’t doing *anything* about finacial shenanigans check out what the fraud task force has been up to:
Yes, people are doing time.
Oh, yes. I just don’t think she expects him to. I think it’s a rhetorical maneuver designed to call attention to lack of accountability – which SHOULD be called attention to!
Steve in DC
I’m not sure how much of this is Dimon’s fault. We clearly know the trader that fucked shit up.
In most jobs if you royally fuck the pooch (lose a contract, destroy something, make a booboo that gets people killed)your ass gets fired right then and there. Then they roll on up the pay ladder and find everybody that had a hand in it, or knew about it and didn’t put a stop to it, and fire their asses as well. Then they make damn sure you never get another job ever again. Congrats fuck head, now go live under a bridge.
But banking is the only job where you can royally fuck up and nothing happens at all.
If you design planes for a living and fuck up, and your plane crashes to the ground costing Boeing a couple hundred million dollars, your ass is grass.
I love how low the the bar is for these giants of industry and finance.
“Has he been CHARGED with anything? No? Well, why on earth would he resign, then?”
Jesus. Is it any wonder that his underlings go crazy without constant supervision and heavy regulation?
Gin & Tonic
@Steve in DC: This was a fucking $100Bn position. If you think for a moment that Dimon didn’t know what the position was, you’re deluded.
@Steve in DC:
Read what she said. She’s not calling for him to resign from the bank. She’s not an idiot.
She’s asking him to voluntarily resign from a prestigious and powerful position to show that he’s serious about responsibility and accountability. He’s the one that insists these folks don’t need regulation. Let him prove it. He can start by policing his own actions.
I know he won’t. But he COULD.
Steve in DC
@Gin & Tonic
We don’t know how much he knew. What we do know is that none of these guys seem to know what the hell is going on at their own firms constantly. I’m very familiar with that sort of mind set. Many senior execs tell us at officers meetings “don’t give me the details so I can deny it”. This is a sort of standard thing when your work can get investigated by politicians and government agencies so the big wigs can claim “well I have no fucking idea”.
That’s pretty much standard operating procedure in any sort of job where federal types try to monitor what you do. Just do it, don’t fucking tell anybody though.
@Steve in DC:
If that’s true, if the market won’t discipline them and they won’t police themselves, then I suppose we’ll have to assign a regulator to each and every one of them, to babysit, so they don’t take the rest of us down with them, like last time.
Is that what they need? A babysitter? Because the rest of us need protection. I know this incident won’t crash the economy, but they’ll forgive me if I’m a little gun shy.
Of course not; that’s not even a good strawman. I’m saying that it is absolutely right that neither Congress nor Treasury can do a damn thing about whether Dimon stays or goes from the board of the New York Fed. And you knew perfectly well that that’s what I was saying.
Jay in Oregon
Makes me sick the way she tries to use real issues to distract voters from the stupid bullshit that
people really care aboutthe powers that be tell us we should care about.
@Steve in DC: “We don’t know how much he knew.” We DO know that Dimon claimed to know enough to ridicule the early reports of this loss as a tempest in a tea cup. He is therefore caught (by himself) on a beautiful version of Morton’s Fork: Either he did know and lied about it, or he did not know and lied about claiming that he did know. As top manager, he’s culpable either way.
Admittedly, he may keep his job (and even if he doesn’t, he’ll keep many, many millions of undeserved compensation). But his much-burnished reputation is in deep, deep trouble. That’s gonna hurt. And it couldn’t happen to a more deserving asshole.
Commenting at Ballon Juice since 1937
Non-psychopathic people who admit that they are “sloppy” and “stupid,” resign. Dimon is not a normal, non-psychopathic person.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for Warren to win and she’d definitely be a huge upgrade to the US Senate, but regarding this statement of hers no, no, no, no, no… Dear Lord, what an idiotic statement.
Wall Street will never “get it”. They don’t give a fuck about the larger society. People who give a fuck don’t go there in the first place. How many times do they have to demonstrate that they don’t give a fuck before it sinks in?
These worthless fucks don’t need to “get it”, they need to be REGULATED. Understand? Shall I spell it out for you? R-E-G-U-L-A-T-E-D. And this is only the second best option, the best option (do away with these institutions entirely) is out of our network so REGULATION is the best we can hope for.
Ms. Warren, the fact that we “regulated” these fucks a couple of years ago and we’re still relying on the good will of individual players to “get it” to keep our economy from going in the shitter means somebody somewhere fucked up, and I’m not talking about Jamie Dimon.
I’m in my fifties and maybe, just maybe, will stagger over the finish line of my life with a decent standard of living, but I feel sorry for those of you younger than me. Elizabeth Warren is the poster child for financial regulation; she’s practically the only human being in the public sphere who even talks about it as a meaningful concept. If even she is making statements like the one above — that the extracting sociopaths on Wall Street need to “get it” — we’re done for as a society.
@Heliopause: Have you considered the possibility that Warren is thinking two steps ahead here? Warren said Dimon should resign to show that an industry can self-regulate. If he doesn’t, she can say the incident shows that the country needs a senator that is serious about financial regulation. If he does resign, she can claim (a part of) his scalp. Either way, win.
@PeakVT: I hope you’re right, because it strikes me as naive in the extreme for anyone to think that Jamie Dimon gives half a crap about anything Elizabeth Warren says.
Haven’t you learned yet that shareholders have no control over the companies they supposedly “OWN?” It is against the law for shareholders to vote to fire him.
Dear Professional Obama Apologist,
I think that’s the job of the Obama Justice Department, don’t you?
But as in the case of Bush and Cheney, evidence is hard to find when the will to prosecute is nonexistent.
FORWARD, NOT BACK!
Whether or not I vote for BO this fall, I WILL vote for Elizabeth Warren.
I do fear for her safety there, however, should she continue to speak these uncomfortable truths.
You’re not trying too hard, are you?
Give it another go. Remember your inspiration: You hate Obama so very much. He is a disappointment. You are angry at him. Very angry. Fighting mad. Outraged!!!
Remember: outraged!!! Also, throw in some racist dogwhistles.
Interesting, given that I don’t hate your demigod at all. Not angry either. Nor outraged.
I’ve been mostly past all of that after ten years of GWB and his Democratic enablers who supposedly represented my party, thank you very much.
The MOST annoying thing are all the tribal maroons who value this man’s political career and their identity as part of “team dem” more than they value the country.
Racist? Hmmm…that’s very original. Why don’t you make that accusation even more frequently from now on?
The crime involves creating complex financial objects, (some of which were called collateralized debt obligations) and selling these contracts as if they were worth a great deal of money, when in fact, they were mostly worthless.
They bribed the “rating” companies (Moodies, Standard and Poors, etc) to give these artifical investments high quality ratings, so that investors would spend lots of money on these packages of dept.
Then when the CDOs and like instruments turned out to be in fact worthless, they shifted all the loss to investors, and away from the creators of the investments. Most of the banks and investment firms got away scot free.
They all committed fraud, it is obvious to the casual onlooker, like me – I asked a CPA friend if he could explain CDOs to me in words of one or two syllables, and he admitted he could not – so there I rest my case.
These guys all committed multiple financial crimes, did things that if you or I did them, we’d be in jail already, for the rest of our lives.
But because these guys control so much money, they’re all going to skate free, while hard working people who took out loans to buy houses they were told were great investments, which turned out to be another fraud between appraisers and banks or mortgage brokers, lost every penny, their home, and all too often, their jobs and families.
The rating agencies should all be closed up for falsely rating those investments as high quality. The investment banks that built the bad investment instruments should be closed up.
The management of all those zillion dollar firms should be serving 30 or 40 year sentences, and their (ill gotten) wealth should be confiscated to pay off the mortgages of the people they fleeced. Not going to happen, but that what ought to happen.
Suck on that, republican asshole!
I don’t give a fuck what dimension of chess she’s working on, idiotic rhetoric like that needs to end. The more it’s repeated the more it’s internalized.
@J R: Jeez, lighten up, Francis. Burns isn’t a Republican (I don’t think). He’s just pushing back on the (completely understandable, but ultimately not very productive) “Lock ’em all up and throw away the keys!” reaction to the financial fiasco. The better rhetorical angle, I think, would be to focus on the utter lack of regulations and laws that should have been preventing some of the wildest excesses of 2002-2007 from happening, then pushing for something actually meaningful to be implemented. Calling for the heads of Dimon and Blankfein 5 years later doesn’t get us very far. Was the financial industry taking advantage of people? Sure. Were they knowingly breaking the law left and right? No. There was some level of fraudulent mortgage underwriting, and clearly the incentivization on ratings agencies and others was to keep the music going, but they were mostly just operating under the extremely lenient system of rules and regs they bought from the federal government. That those in the financial industry have become orders of magnitude wealthier than working folk and even other professional ranks is a symptom of an ill system, but not evidence of outright crime on all their parts. Likewise the fact that it was mostly the non-.5% that took the brunt of the recession and crash. It sucks, but it’s not literally criminal.