Before anyone complains: yes, we get the news in Pittsburgh. Pit bulls are powerful dogs. A pit raised wrong can do an incredible amount of harm. If you have no idea how to handle a dog then you have no business with any large or powerful breed. That goes twice for the guy whose two problem labs bit my dad.
Finnegan:
Having said that, I can only speak for the pits that I know, and I would steal away any one of these guys if I thought I could get away with it*. With the exception of Finnegan all of them were rescued from points unknown. Several showed signs of abuse or careless breeding. Maybe urban fighting rings dump those dogs that prove too incorrigibly sweet-natured to scrap, or it could be that ‘tough guys’ give up their dog when the most threatening thing it does is roll over for a belly rub. Who knows. So are they representative? Well, my neighborhood has a few noisy backyard pits (that is to say, trapped in a backyard with no company and more or less crazy), two boxers, a beagle, a spaniel, a small terrier, a chow and the saddest collie I have ever seen. Each of those dogs is an unhappy exile and, through no fault but their owners’, I would not trust a kid near any of them.
Unlike our local backyard dogs the pits I meet live with responsible owners who keep them as a family member and socialize them at the dog park. Finnegan is ginormous, like a cane corso with even less of a neck, but he seems to have no protective instincts at all. He plays when another dog wants to play. Otherwise he wanders at his own sedate pace hitting up preferred bystanders for ear scratches and lying around near mom and dad. Call me crazy but I see something late-Brandoesque in Finn’s expressions and the way he moves around. Tell me I’m wrong. It’s ok. I can take it.
(*) Updated to add: This is not a rescue bleg. All of these dogs have happy homes and represent adoption success stories.
Cora:
Cora, the first pit that I knew personally, would be my number one favorite dog in the world except that my wife reads this blog so it has to be Max. Cora looked pretty bad when the shelter found her. The last owners left her on the street starved, abused and still recuperating from a recent litter. When her now-mom came to the shelter Cora was the only dog who barely responded at all, shaking in the back of her pen like Lily before John. A little love made a big difference, and when we met a year later Cora would jump up and down with joy if anyone, literally anyone, took notice the fuzzy thing leaning on their shin and gave it a belly rub. I think that Cora loves people (and treats, oh god, if she thinks you have a treat…) in the way that some people love gin.
Bea:
The schedule of Bea’s owners syncs up with mine, and Max and Bea are now the dog version of bff’s. I like to think of Bea as having the sort of late youth that Cora should have had but didn’t. Around Max Bea uses several lines of attack: she starts with the chest bumping business, but Max is a pretty big dog. Next she circles around and waits for a moment of distraction (treat? SQUIRREL!). Then she tucks her head down and gets up a head of steam to steamroll him broadside. If that forces a fumble, Bea daintily collects the ball and prances to the edge of the field to lay regally in the tall grass. Max, ever the proud and noble doberman, will stand ten feet away and cry for help from dad. When it comes to people and treats Bea and Cora have a lot in common.
Chewie:
Chewie just arrived from the local rescue a few months ago. Bea, Cora and Finn all have moody moments but the word for Chewie is happy, happy, happy. Whatever happened before the shelter found him left some scars on Chewie’s back but made no mark on his outrageously positive outlook on life. If it’s time to play, AWESOME! Other dogs. GREAT! Treat? No? That’s ok! Maybe a bellyrub! Time to go home? Fantastic! Another walk! He’s one of those dogs you have to use code words around (t-r-e-a-t, that word that starts with ‘w’, never jangle the leash unless you mean to use it) because he is convinced at all times that something very very good is just about to happen.
Conclusion: I am one guy and I only had a dog now for about two years, but from what I can tell rescue pits make a pretty damned good dog.
joes527
Just one person’s experience. As someone who hikes regularly and has to deal with dogs on the trail … I’ve never had a problem with a large breed dog. Dunno whether that is because their owners take them more seriously, of if it is because they just don’t need to prove anything. In any case, my experience with them has always been a respectful sharing of the trail.
Small breed dogs on the other hand …
Dave S.
Thank you for emphasizing owner responsibility over breed. Any dog raised wrong can cause an awful lot of harm.
Some of the sweetest, doofiest dogs I have known have been Rottweilers.
Betty Cracker
The only pits I’ve personally known well were my father’s hunting dogs, and they were as sweet a pair of dogs as I’ve ever met. I’m sure the boars they brought down would tell a different story…
gaz
I’m an avowed cat person. Owning a dog is a lot like raising a child. They need constant attention and are fairly high maintenance animals.
That said, if I ever got my mind set on owning a dog, A pit would be in the top 3 of breeds on my wishlist. I love them. They have wonderful personalities – every last one I’ve known. They are such quirky, fun, and lovable animals.
I hope each of these finds a good home, and gets the care and love they deserve.
Tim F.
@gaz: They have a great home. The post is about adoptions that already worked out well rather than about dogs waiting to be adopted.
gaz
@Tim F.: Yeah I just noticed. And I am glad. Seems a habit of mine. I see the pics, skip the words, and think “pet bleg”, only to go back and read more carefully so I know what an idiot I look like =)
Lee
My wife is a veterinarian.
Put 10 different breeds in rooms to examine and she says she’ll pick the pitbull breed first every time.
MosesZD
I got attacked by some crazy dogs ruined by bad owners. In my case, they spent all day in a cramped backyard about the size of a postage stamp. They became really vicious over time and one day they got out and attacked me as I was walking home from school. If a retired neighbor didn’t beat them off with a rake they could have killed me.
As it was I fainted and woke in the hospital. That was 45 years ago and I still have the scars to this day.
I’ve seen other things too. My sister lost her old place to stay when she was in college (Auburn) because of a roommate dropping out and leaving.
She had to move way down in space thanks to the sudden move-out as she couldn’t afford the old place. Two months into the cramped house (a tiny, one-bed trailer), despite her looking for a new place (college towns are tough mid-term), it became a tragedy as the big dog killed the little dog. Just tore her apart in a moment of stir-crazy rage despite their being friends for a good five years. Broke my sister’s heart as she loved both dogs and really did try to make sure they could have space and companionship and a great life.
handy
Thanks for this post, Tim.
The American Pit Bull Terrier was once one of the most popular breeds of dog. With proper training they are a great family dog.
gbear
I’ve got a friend with a pit bull and he sounds just like you about his dog. Jenny is one of the most friendly dogs I know and just lives for human companionship. She’s well mannered at the dog park but likes to pull ahead if on a leash. I’ve been walking with my friend and Jenny on sidewalks in a busy shopping neighborhood and watched the look of horror coming over their faces when shoppers saw a pit bull coming their way. I’ll confess that I nervously begged off when my friend asked me to dog sit for a week (I’ve never owned a dog), but I never worry about her when I’m visiting.
MosesZD
@Dave S.:
My wife likes Rottweilers. I’ve never run into a bad one, personally. But I don’t trust thier owners. Too many macho idiots buy them. Same with dobermans, sheppards and some other ‘macho dude’ breeds.
I’m also fully on the ‘bad owners’ not ‘bad breeds’ bandwagon. My father-in-law had a number of these ‘macho’ type breeds. But they were brought up properly and they never posed any danger to anyone, except maybe a slobber bath…
jibeaux
Pits used to be considered the quintessential family with young children dog for their gentleness, before they got “rebranded.”
My terrier-chihuahua-feist-Idon’t know what the hell he is, is 15 pounds of attitude, but we’re working on him. He’s sweet once you know him and very cute, and he hops almost exactly like Pepe LePew, but the Napoleon complex is strong.
Violet
Two pit bulls were roaming our neighborhood last week. They were traveling together and tried to get into our yard as I was leaving. I managed to use my car (which I was in when I saw them) to herd them away from our property, which sort of worked.
I was trying to figure out what to do when my neighbor came up in her car. She’s got a young child and was fairly intimidated by the two dogs that were by that point, circling our cars like sharks. She decided to call the local constable, when the two dogs just took off running. We have not seen them since.
I was not about to get out of my car to deal with two pit bulls on my own, nor was my neighbor with her young child in tow. I think the dogs clearly lived on the street — no collars and they looked kind of thin. I felt bad that we couldn’t help them, but they were very high energy and running around quite a bit. I don’t know how we could have captured them.
We really did feel like we were being circled by sharks as they just kept going round and round our two cars. A bit scary as I live near a local park and there are tons of kids that play there, some very young.
Alex K.
Thank you for this post. We have an American Staffordshire Terrier who we adopted from a shelter near Detroit. They found him in January, by himself, when he was a month or two old. He’s got one unexplained scar on his head and a strange fear of the sight of a guitar (could just be my playing). He is the sweetest little scamp. Plays very well with other dogs, has endless energy in the woods, is extremely patient with people, and doesn’t bark unless he thinks somebody is coming in the house.
It’s all about the owner. He’d be a different dog if we never exercised him and otherwise ill-treated him. Unfortunately, some people don’t understand this. I’m sure you’ve heard of the Maryland Court of Appeals’ decision in Tracey v. Solesky, in which the Court (in an opinion authored by a retired judge) showed a profound ignorance of statistics and determined that “pit bulls,” that monolithic breed, are inherently dangerous animals on the basis of extremely poorly-sourced data and anecdotal evidence.
Anyhow, I really appreciate your post. Maybe one day it will be cited in a state court decision.
Svensker
A cousin does pit bull rescue in Pennsylvania and, boy, will SHE chew you a new one if you diss PBs.
When we lived in Hoboken a bunch of the mafia types had rotweilers and pits to guard the stores/houses/bakeries and of course trained them to be killers. But I blamed the human scum owners, not the doggies.
elspi
\begin{rant}
Labs are the most common dogs and account for almost no dog-bite deaths.
Pit bulls are uncommon (not even in the top ten) but account the lion’s share of deaths.
http://www.dogsbite.org/
This is the one place where I still see supposed liberals doing the old “statistics, we don’t need no stink statistics” jive that the republicans have perfect.
You owe it to your neighbor’s children not to own such a dangerous animal.
\end{rant}
comrade scott's agenda of rage
I helped rescue pitties in New Orleans in the months after Katrina.
Several of them had clearly been fighters, dominant fighters. You had to be very careful around them.
Fast forward a year and to just about any other place in the country and I’ve been around lots of rescued pitties. Wonderful creatures, wonderful creatures.
We foster cats and we’d never have any qualms about bringing a pitty into the house.
Clime Acts
Sorry, but this old bleeding heart fallacy that Pits are just abused Teddy Bears is utterly contradicted by statistics.
And no, I’m not going to link. All the relevant links are readily available on google for your perusal, should you care to educate yourself.
No dog of any kind should be abused or mistreated, of course. People who own these time bombs, most especially ones with an unknowable background, are selfish and dangerous to their community. Their are plenty of non-killer dogs available for adoption, thank you.
Yes, yappy little dogs can be annoying but even the worst attack from one of them isn’t going to kill or disable you or your neighbor’s child.
My current theory is that Pit owners are comparable to gun owners in their need to prove something. What that something is I will leave to you and your shrink.
Clime Acts
@gbear:
I allege that this is precisely one of the reasons Pit owners LOVE their dogs. The intimidation factor produces feelings of power and superiority; they LIKE seeing strangers veer away in very reasonable terror.
Frankly, it’s kind of disgusting that dog owners act this way in a community setting. Utterly selfish.
Clime Acts
@Violet:
You should not feel afraid. You were being very unreasonable and bigoted and even mean toward these sweet, adorable, family friendly dogs. ALL dogs, even little Chihuahuas, circle cars like sharks, and intimidate people into being afraid to get out.
Don’t you know this!?
handy
@Clime Acts:
Not sure if I agree with the “abused teddy bears” formulation but they are mishandled. Poor socialization and training and a powerful, sometimes lethal, set of jaws are bad mix. Thus your comparison of pit owners to gun toters is apt in a few ways.
Percysowner
I have heard really nice things about Pits. I personally do not have enough experience with dogs in general to feel like I could handle one. Plus my city has special ordinances covering Pits, American Bulldogs and other breeds that people consider vicious, so I will probably never own one. I’m glad other people can have them and give them good homes.
satby
@ elspi: Well, anecdote is not data, but my male lab attacked my rescue pit mix. And a few years ago a 12 week old lab puppy mauled a baby in a swing so badly the kid bled out, the meth-head parents and grandmother were in the other room. The police carried the puppy out under one arm, it was so small, but it was euthanized as a killer.
Any dog can pose a risk, and bigger dogs pose bigger risks; responsible owners make sure to avoid or control for the risks posed by large strong dogs, even if they’re gentle and have good temperaments. So it always comes back to the owners.
And some dogs will not become good pets or safe around people, but that isn’t breed specific, and we fool ourselves if we think it is.
ornery_curmudgeon
Pitbulls are excellent companions and very protective in my personal experience. This can be valuable, but it should be understood.
For one thing, pitbulls are are territorial in the extreme. As with loaded gun, there is good ownership and dangerously lax ownership. Mistakes made by irresponsible owners are too often paid for by the innocent animal and unwitting victims.
John M
My dog is a pound dog, about 40 pounds, who looks to be some sort of lab mix. She is 11 years old. My wife rescued her when she was a puppy and I’ve known her since I began dating my now-wife 10 years ago. Our dog suffers every degree of indignity form our three little boys (not that we encourage it, but we can’t be everywhere at once) without so much as a half-growl. In short, she is a well-trained, well-socialized dog with a sweet disposition. On one occasion, however, a tow truck driver inadvertently surprised my wife, startling her by walking in our back door to hand her our car keys, and the dog bit him. The tow truck driver suffered a puncture wound, but essentially he was fine.
I don’t doubt that ownership and training make a world of difference with pit bulls, just like with any other dogs. But it is foolhardy to believe that excellent ownership guarantees a perfect result. My “good dog” acted out of character once in her eleven-year life and caused a minor injury. What if she had been a pit bull with the aforementioned powerful jaws? That’s my issue with pitbulls. I don’t really care if they are more likely, as likely, or less likely than other dogs to bite. The issue is that when they do bite, it can be catastrophic. And the delusional arrogance of some pitbull owners, this belief that they have found the one breed dog that can be perfectly socialized and that will never, ever lash out as long as it had the right training, is maddening.
Merrily
Here is one of the best dog books I’ve ever read, about a rescued pit bull:
My Name is Big
I first heard of this book from a friend who read the ultra runners list where much of this content was first posted, and I quickly became a fan. The style is very wry.
The author is the person who runs the famous Barkley Marathon.
satby
Pretty sure no one here said that at all. Everyone except Clime Acts is saying responsible owners train and monitor their pets. Clime Acts is talking about delicious pie flavors.
Angela
I live in a neighborhood that is full of pit bulls. When I am walking my two fluff missile Bedlington Terriers, I always cross the street when I see a pit and an owner coming. And I will continue to do that. There are always clues as to whether the dog walker has the dog under control, but the clues as to how well the dog has been socialized, how trained the dog is, and how aggressive the dog is might become evident too late. Not a chance I am willing to take.
When my sons were young, I had a German Shephard/black and tan coonhound mix. He was well trained, well socialized and never showed aggression. I’m not against all guard breeds, but I would never have a pit bull around children, and I would never let me dogs touch noses with one.
Mnemosyne
@elspi:
The problem with those statistics, though, is that they usually rely on a “visual inspection” to determine what the dog’s breed is (or on the memory of the person who witnessed the attack or was the victim of the attack), and, let’s face it, at this point, any vicious dog with a short muzzle is going to be labeled a “pit bull” or “pit bull mix” even if it isn’t.
There’s quite a bit to the genetics question, too. A pit bull mixed with labrador is probably going to be fine. A pit bull mixed with Akita or another dominant breed is going to be a dog that needs a VERY experienced and watchful owner.
Mnemosyne
@Angela:
Given how strong the prey drive can be in pit bulls, crossing the street is probably a good idea since your dogs are so much smaller. But I think that’s a different problem than dogs that attack humans.
gelfling545
I recall my sister’s pit bull; now gone to her final reward these last 5 years. She was definitely a flight, not fight type and was a bit intimidated by my niece’s stuffed dinosaur. It was impossible to convince her at nearly 80 (I think) pounds that she was not a lap dog. I think she was a tea cup poodle in a former life. People did say it was my sister’s fault though for naming her Petunia (sometimes spelled Pitunia)
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
Wrong.
gaz
@elspi: I’d be more inclined to believe the stats if they if they took into account the number of irresponsible assholes who seek to own this type of dog and do not take care of them
I’m with Tim F on this.
There are lies. There are damned lies, and then there are statistics.
I can make numbers say anything I want. It’s easy to engage in misdirection of context, and easier still to forget to take other factors into account.
gaz
@elspi: I’ll follow up.
Overwhelmingly, the number of rapes that occur are perpetrated by men. Therefore, by having a penis, you are a rapist.
See how this works?
gaz
@elspi: I’ll follow up.
Overwhelmingly, r4pes are perpetrated by men – particularly heterosexual men. Therefore, by being straight, and having a p3n1s, you are a r4pist. QED
See how this works?
Ronzoni Rigatoni
Well, I had a Russian Ovcharka for a long while. Looks like a semi-long-haired German Shepherd but about 25% bigger. They were shepherds bred to guard sheep and kill wolves. Traditionally, their ears were clipped and tails bobbed so that wolves would have less to grab onto. Sweet doggie, properly raised, but shed mattresses of hair everywhere all the time. Unfortunately, these days they are bred for fighting (in Russia). I’d love another, but we can’t seem to find any breeders, even in Europe. Maybe I’ll send for a Russian puppy one of these days.
Scamp Dog
The pit bulls I’ve encountered have generally been sweethearts. The one exception came when I was out walking my Border Collie. The pit’s hackles were up, and Biscuit tends to be grumpy around other dogs, and was giving the stock-still “I’m about to tell you off” glare. The lady walking it started going on about how people were so scared because of the breed, but she’s so sweet. I thought “Lady, it’s not the breed, it’s that your dog’s showing signs of impending aggression”, but decided sounding ticked off would not help my dog’s assessment of the situation and walked off with a non-committal comment.
Don’t people know what it means when the hair on a dog’s back stands up? Crimony. People like that shouldn’t own dogs at all, much less pit bulls.
gaz
@Mnemosyne: When I was younger an attack by one of these small dogs sent me to the hospital.
petesmom
Cora and Chewie – who knew dogs could grin big enough to have dimples? Those two look REALLY um, enthusiastic.
BSR
“Maybe urban fighting rings dump those dogs that prove too incorrigibly sweet-natured to scrap, or it could be that ‘tough guys’ give up their dog when the most threatening thing it does is roll over for a belly rub. Who knows. ”
They use those dogs as bait dogs so the fighting dogs won;t get hurt in training as much. Disgusting but true.
gaz
@petesmom: That’s one of the charming things about pits and boxers, IMO
ulee
I have been bitten twice in my life by dogs and they’ve both been poodles. No real harm done. With that said, when I walk my two whippet/jack russell sisterpups I would not shy away if I saw a poodle coming our way. There is a pitbull that I occasionally see wandering our neighborhood and I am genuinely intimidated. I’m afraid we are going to run across this dog someday and he is going to kill my dogs.
Alex K.
@elspi: So, pitbulls, however defined, are responsible for a greater number of attacks in proportion to their population than labs. I’ll accept that. But please explain to me how you reach the conclusion that pitbulls are by their nature dangerous based on your statistics. Pits are strong, loyal dogs, and they are cheap and plentiful. Thus, they are perfect for people who want to do bad things with them. But this does not reflect portly on the nature of pitbulls. BSL only pages people who would use pitbulls for nefarious purposes to use other types of dogs. Maybe in twenty years we’ll be hearing once again of the menace posed by German shepards, or we’ll have moved on to other bully breeds.
gaz
@Violet:
I highly recommend calling your local animal control.
NO DOG should be roaming without supervision.
In my area technically all animals must have a special tag and license provided by CITY HALL – this is above and beyond standard animal license that you also have to get.
This statute is not enforced as such – but rather used to throw the book at an owner who creates these kinds of problems (like the one you describe). That way, they can skirt the prerequisite that the animal must attack someone before it can be picked up. It may behoove you to call your local police dept and/or animal control agency (non emergency line of course) and request assistance so you know what your options are.
You can’t assume any dog is intrinsically safe or dangerous based on breed alone. If you do not know the dog, it is potentially dangerous. Don’t lose focus on that, and put you or your children at risk. Report to the authorities instead.
Clime Acts
@ulee:
True story:
Friend of mine in Fort Lauderdale was walking his little poodle lap dog. They came upon a dog owner and her pit bull. The pit proceeded to break its owner’s leash and kill my buddy’s dog right in front of him.
Yeah, Pits are just like all other dogs. Real sweetie pies.
gaz
@ulee: What I said to violet applies here as well.
gaz
@Clime Acts: No dog can break a leash in proper repair. Either you are lying or the owner did not properly secure their dog.
I won’t wager which one.
RosiesDad
I am a practicing veterinarian with over 20 years’ experience. The vast majority of Pit Bulls I see are great dogs. Some have issues (hate having their nails clipped, sensitive ears, etc.) but in general, they are not a difficult breed for us to deal with and we have great fondness for many of the Pit Bulls who are our patients.
We do see some rescue dogs with behavioral issues (fear aggression mostly) but most of these dogs live with people who are experienced dog owners who keep the dogs out of situations where the dog or a person is going to be put in jeopardy.
I looked at the stats on dogbite.org and without researching the veracity, they are documenting a relatively small number of incidents compared with the overall population of people and dogs. (31 dog bite fatalities is a small number in a country with 300 million people and nearly 80 million pet dogs.) Every serious bite is an unfortunate event and a bite that results in death is tragic but I think it needs to be kept in perspective.
gaz
@satby: This
RosiesDad
@Clime Acts: A dog cannot break a leash of appropriate gauge if the leash is in good condition.
That said, a dog being walked in public is the responsibility of the person walking the dog. If a dog being walked in public gets free, the responsibility is on the person, not on the dog.
I do not know if the dog who supposedly killed the poodle was dog aggressive of if the poodle sent a challenging signal via vocalization or body language. But it doesn’t matter. If you are going to walk a dog in public, it is your responsibility to control it.
handy
@gaz:
With either option it still falls back on the Pit owner, which is more the point.
ulee
@gaz: I have hesitated to call animal control because the pitbull has a collar and must belong to someone and has never done anything wrong. When I was a kid we had dogs that wandered the neighborhood, but they were labs and we were always thrilled when they showed up. But you are right. I need to make animal control aware of the situation. Still, I feel bad because if it was a lab I wouldn’t care but it’s a pitbull, and though I’m sure responsible care of a dog has alot to do with a dog’s aggression I think pitbulls are dangerous.
Mnemosyne
Like gaz said, dogs that are roaming the neighborhood without owners should be presumed dangerous, especially if they’re in pairs or packs. Call your local Animal Control right away.
Dave Trowbridge
Good statistics here.
German Shepherd Dog (GSD) tops the list for dog bites (not surprising, considering that’s a large part of what they’re designed for), following by pit breeds.
I own a GSD out of the Schutzhund world champion, and trained him for a time at that sport, 1/3 of which involves taking on a human opponent in a simulated police action. Although GSDs and Rottweilers are dominant in that sport (you can’t breed a GSD in Germany unless it has a Schutzhund title), I saw a lot of people bring American Bulldogs in for training, figuring that hey, big ol’ pit type dog like that has to be good at taking on a bad guy.
Guess again. Yeah, they could be trained in Sch, and could be pretty good, but in general it was a lot harder to get them to attack the human agitator seriously, compared to a GSD or Rottie. As long as it was a game, fine, but when you put pressure on them, you could tell that there was something in them that just said: biting humans isn’t what I’m all about. (Biting other dogs is a different story.)
So my experience aligns me with pit fans. They’re great dogs, and with proper treatment, I’d trust them more than your run of the mill GSD–esp. given what the AKC has done to that breed in the U.S., where there’s no requirement for “proofing” the dog before breeding it.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
In the mind of many pit bulls, little fuzzy lap dog = dinner. This is why responsible people don’t keep pit bulls and cats in the same house — if the cat accidentally trigger’s the dog’s prey instinct, it’s goodbye kitty.
That does not, however, automatically mean that dog will be aggressive towards humans. It’s two different instincts.
Tim F.
@ulee: You should always call either animal control or a local rescue shelter if you cannot see a tag on the dog. The owners, who are probably worried sick right now, would have already contacted the local shelters etc with a description of their dog. Further, many dogs are microchipped thes days, so even without a tag any shelter will be able to find its owner right away. If the dog is not microchipped and the owners do not care enough to notify all the shelters then, frankly, the dog should be taken to a shelter anyway. There is no scenario where calling would be the wrong thing to do.
handy
@Dave Trowbridge:
In our household we had a German Shepherd practically my entire childhood growing up. I loved this dog, he treated me and all us other humans in his house right. Strangers, we had to caution before approaching him. I believe this is due to how his previous handler, a relative, trained him, since he boasted at times how much of a good “guard dog” sensibility he gave him.
ulee
What I should do is get a porcupine and a skunk, train and socialize them, and take them along when I walk my dogs. My girlfriend’s dog(mixed breed)killed a porcupine but payed for it dearly. We were still pulling quills from his snout a month after the incident. As for skunks, bless their hilarious evolutionary adaptation.
gaz
@ulee: I understand your concern. I look at it as it is better to notify the authorities and have the animal picked up before it injures someone. Let them notify the owner. They don’t euthanize off the bat. If the owner is responsible, they just have to pick up the dog. Any inconvenience they may experience is outweighed by them being negligent. It’s their fault, entirely. Not yours. Better safe than sorry, in any case. Adding, Labs are generally large dogs and can do a lot of damage. That’s just my $0.02
gaz
@ulee: I had a friend that loved keeping skunks as pets. I’ve never owned one myself, but I hear they are intelligent critters and can make a good pet. YMMV. I probably would never own one myself =)
gaz
@Tim F.: I absolutely agree. Even if the dog has a tag though, good luck getting safely close enough to a strange dog to read it. Let the authorities handle it. just my $0.02.
gaz
@handy: yep. It’s ALWAYS about the owner.
Jebediah
@gaz:
FUCK!
I don’t want to be a r4pist, but you’re right. That logic is irrefutable, and I meet those criteria. What the hell do I do now? I have female neighbors – how are they going to be safe with me around?
Jebediah
@gaz:
I will make one minor quibble – if it was one of those stupid retractable leashes it might be possible. Of course anyone walking a big, strong dog that poorly trained/socialized on one of those things is asking for trouble.
And none of what i just said alters or detracts from your point.
Patricia Kayden
I have nothing against Pits, but can understand completely why people fear them. I believe Ontario (where I grew up) bans them completely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
moderateindy
I have a border collie and years, and years of breeding has instilled in her certain genetic instincts. Since she has no livestock to herd, these instincts manifest themselves in other ways, mostly a single-minded need to fetch.
Pit bulls as a breed were very gentle and sweet, but had some aggressive tendencies. In the last 30-40 years they have become the preferred breed of scum sucking dog fighters. These people seek out the most aggressive violent members of the species, and selectively breed them with other pit bulls that exhibit the same characteristics of aggression and violence. The result is the progeny of these bloodlines are, by their very genetic code, more likely to be very dangerous dogs, that, my friends, is what breeding is all about. And while a breed like border collies have had this done over hundreds of years, to the point that the entire breed shares basically the same instincts and quailties, such selective breeding is still in its infancy when it comes to Pit bulls.
The other side of that of course is that most of the pit bull bloodlines that are out there haven’t been subjected to such breeding, and thus such things as uber-aggressiveness are not part of most pit’s personalities. But not knowing the blood line of the dog makes it a crap-shoot. If he came from a background where his ancestry was made up of fighting dogs, he’s little more than a time-bomb. And there’s no way of telling without knowing his lineage. Personally, the pit bulls and Rottweilers that I have known were sweet as a pie, and except for one Rott that would occasionally run out onto the field in the middle of a lacrosse game, and steal the ball they were also extremely well behaved. (by the way that particular Rott also happened to be as good-natured as any dog I’ve ever known, and at 80+ pounds he was certain he was a lap dog)But I still don’t trust any Pittie I don’t know, and would never let my dog near them.
gaz
@Jebediah: lol. I love stats.
And I for one, have no fear of you raping me. Digitally or otherwise.
I guess I could have used the “blah people make up less than 13% of the population but almost 40% of the prison population, so they must be more inclined to be criminals” BS too.
Again, I love stats. I can “prove” just about anything =P
Jebediah
@gaz:
HA! SO YOU ADMIT I AM NOT A RAPIST!!1
Wait a minute – where am I?
Yeah, statistics are great. They have such an aura of authoritativeness, but lots of people are not able (or willing) evaluate them properly.
Anyway, 100% of people who are me have never committed a rape, so I think I have the proof that you are, indeed, safe around me.
gaz
@Jebediah: hehehe. That’s good to know.
100% of people that are me have never been raped either, so I guess I’m safe in any case =)
gaz
@Jebediah: hehehe. That’s good to know.
100% of people that are me have never been raped, so I guess I’m safe in any case =)
Violet
@gaz:
Maybe I should put the number of Animal Control in my phone, but I didn’t have it. Like I said, my neighbor and I were both in our cars talking to each other and she decided to phone the constable in our area.
I was already running late to an appointment I didn’t want to miss and trying to keep the two pit bulls off the property so I could get the gate closed made me even later. I was glad when my neighbor volunteered to take on the issue.
I’m not sure what Animal Control could have done by the time they arrived because while we were talking the dogs ran off and we couldn’t see where they went. We don’t have too much problem with loose dogs in my neighborhood, so I’m not accustomed to dealing with it.
wonkie
@elspi: Garbage.
Pitbulls are the most common type pf dog. (“Pitbull” os a description, not a breed.)
Accrding to the Humane Society the most common type of dog to bite is an unneutered chained up or penned up male dog regardless of breed.
In any given year around forty types of dogs, including a list of breeds, pitbulls, and mixed breed dogs, share the responsiblity for dog bite incidents serious enough to be reported. Of thsoe forty breeds the top ten are mixed breed, pitbull, doberman, rotties, shar peis, Great Danes, German shepards, chows,and I can’t remember the other two.
But you know what? It doesn’t matter what any of the types or breeds are because compared to the numbers of dogs of each type or breed that DON’T bite, the percentage that do is statistically meaningless.
There are about three million pitbull type dogs in the US. The percentage of them that bite someone is tiny.
While we are on the subject of statistics: somethinglike seventy percent of the dog bite icidents involve the family dog biting a child in the family. Almost all of the remaining incident involve the family dog biting a neighbor kid who comes into the yard. Just like sex abuse, dog bites are a family matter. Yet people who fear pitbulls do so based on stranger danger stories.
According to the AKC which does temeprament testing annually on prue breeds, American PIt Bull Terriers score about the same as golden retrievers for socialbility with people.
Pitbull teriers are terriers. Terriers were bred BY PEOPLE for hundreds of years to kill small animals. Not surprisingly pits are often not compatible with small dogs or cats. This doesn’t make the breed evil. It makes them terriers. BTW all dogs were bred for even longer to be subservient to people and dogs with a prey drive for other aimals do not direct that prey drive toward people. Agreesion toward people is usally either fear or a guarding instinct.
My own exzperiece? I volunteer at at a dog shelter. I have never been threatened ion any way by a pit. I have been bitten by a chow, several heelers, and a rat terrier.
It’s because of the prejudice agaist pits that good dogs get euthanized as unadoptable in shelters and good owners can’t rent apartments. IT’s shameful.
Dave Trowbridge
@handy: Yes, that’s something GSDs have been consistently selected for in the more than 100 years since they were invented by Max von Stephanitz, so it’s easy to bring out in them. More difficult is what Schutzhund at its best can do for a GSD: make them confident, aloof, and safe around any human (sort of like martial arts training for kids).
BethanyAnne
@gaz: Late to this party, but like you, I’m a very cat person. That said, when I first ran across Klee Kai’s I sqeeee’d. They’re so cute! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Klee_Kai
Jebediah
@wonkie:
Thanks for shedding some light and bringing some sense.
blehmann
@Dave Trowbridge:
I could trust my pit bull around anyone. She loved people. My German Shepherd…he’s another story. He is not aggressive but he doesn’t care about strangers and doesn’t want their attention. He is very suspicious of men. He’ll sit quietly at mt side and allow me to talk to neighbors but if men get too close or lean over him, he barks loudly and looks pleased when they jump back. He is a much more serious dog than my pit
Bull ever was. I do appreciate the GSD’s innate protectiveness but it can be difficult to convince them that they don’t make decisions.
debbie
While I agree that it’s usually the owner who’s the problem, I had a Rottweiler clamp down on my leg and refuse to let go many years ago. Even though I was wearing heavy-weight Levis and Frye boots, I still came away with a very bruised leg.
I will give dogs the benefit of my many doubts, but I still cross the street whenever I see a large dog being walked coming at me.
And all those front yard invisible fences…grrr.
elspi
Once again not a common breed
http://www.akc.org/reg/dogreg_stats.cfm
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/02/29/americas-10-most-popular-dog-breeds/#all
Maybe you all should get bumperstickers that say you can have my pit bull when you pry my cold dead fingers from him.
Yes almost all rapists are male, but males are HUMAN, intelligent (when not discussing pets) and self-aware.
Dogs on the other hand are no smarter than pigs (which we eat).
Humans are dangerous but we tolerate that since they are human.
There is no reason to tolerate a pet which is that dangerous.
Steverino
@handy: My cousin-in-law is a cop, and they had as a pet a police-trained German Shepherd. When I first visited them, the dog was in the fenced yard, and my cousin (a small woman) had to hang on to him with all her strength while I went in the house.
Then! the dog saw me through the patio door, petting the cat. That’s all it took: he stopped barking and wanted some of that. When they let him in, he was buddy-buddy forevermore.
Of course, stranger-going-in-the-house vs. we’re-all-in-the-house-together plays a part, but after the cat he was all wags and wiggles.
Steverino
I got attacked by a pit bull a couple months ago: it got out of its back yard, and the owner was calling it as it wandered down the street, examining the bushes and fences: then it saw me and my FIL across the street!
It came charging right at us, and then threw itself down on its belly, wriggling and jumping. It bopped me in the nose, jumping up to be petted. It was a young ‘un, but even so when the owner caught up with us and I handed her the leash he about took her arm off. Very dangerous!
I like to think I can spot the friendly vs. not-so dog. Clue number one is someone walking the dog in a crowd. Dogs in cars I mostly avoid unless it’s obviously overtly friendly: you run into a defend-the-turf reflex there. Dogs being walked in the neighborhood, I will ask first, like the guy with the big German Shepherd that had the dog at heel on a short leash: either being trained or not friendly. Worst is at work, in Hartford: there’s guide dog trainers somewhere nearby, and they are always being walked around. I will cross the street to pet a dog, and hate having to ignore these beautiful animals.