I’ve been watching BBQ Pitmasters marathon on TLC or one of those channels, and I am struck by how much focus is on beef, whether it be tri-tips, burnt ends, brisquet, etc. Am I the only one who prefers swine to beef when it comes to bbq? I love beef, whether it be tenderloins, rib-eyes, flank steak, hamburger, and what not (mmm corned beef), but is there really any question that the high holy of meat is the pig? It’s the miracle beast. It’s where all good things start in the kitchen. I know everyone is all about bacon, but, really, the pig is where everything stops and starts in the kitchen. Lardo, people. Fucking lardo. Without the cow, there would be no McDonalds. Without the pig, there would be no prosciutto. I rest my case.
If I was stuck on a desert island, all I would want is fresh water, coconuts, tropical fruits, and wild boar (I’m assuming there would be ample seafood). Well maybe an island girl. But I could definitely go without beef, turkey, chicken, lamb, etc. As long as there was swine, I would be ok.
Linnaeus
Gotta disagree. I’m more of a beef person.
Montana
Rest easy…you are not alone.
Yutsano
@Linnaeus: Barbecued beef brisket is absolutely divine. Since it’s also kosher, it’s more inclusive than pig is. Although a pork butt with a sizzling crackling is pretty awesome too.
Spaghetti Lee
Chicken is superior to both.
ruemara
a FB friend just had one of her pigs butchered. I’m considering moving in, just to help with cooking the meat. I have utensils.
David Koch
how ’bout a soccer ball?
Ailuridae
Maybe you can explain this element of “animal lover” to me:
You run cat and dog rescue blegs as a great service to the animals themselves and your commentariat. I think that’s awesome. But well, pigs are actually much, much smarter than either yet not only are there no pig save blegs you rejoice eating their flesh. Knowing that it most American factory farms the daily treatment of a pig is abominable. How do you resolve that?
Maude
That wild bore will be a bit tough. Bring some meat tenderizer.
rageahol
beef brisket is the pinnacle of bbq because it is more difficult to do right than anything pig, including pork shoulder/pulled pork.
not because it tastes better.
karen marie
I’m getting a “won’t you help save these pigs” ad — ha!
Suffern ACE
I prefer pork to beef in general, but like BBQ beef more than pulled pork. I don’t like the ribs of either animal, no matter how they are prepared.
asiangrrlMN
@Spaghetti Lee: Ditto this. I prefer fowl to four-leggeds myself.
slacker
Beef is tougher to do well.
Pork is kind of entry-level BBQ. Very hard to screw up. And even if you screw it up you can fix it with a good BBQ sauce for the most part.
With Beef, there are 2 points on the temp scale where it is good BBQ and if you don’t hit either one it is dry or tough. Unless you french-braise it which is kinda cheating.
Also, Beef is Texas and like school text books, the way that Texas goes so goes BBQ.
So as far as competition BBQ goes it has to do with the above factors: challenge and demographics.
But if you just want good BBQ, I go with pork.
The prophet Nostradumbass
You’re probably watching “Destination America”, which used to be “Planet Green”, which used to be something else before that.
I like both beef and pork when it comes to BBQ; I like turkey as well, actually.
Mnemosyne
I think we have yet another link between John and Homer Simpson.
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: This does not surprise me. But I get why you don’t eat animalia of the porcine variety. I like then as bebehs, especially sheep.
Linnaeus
@Yutsano:
Yeah, bbq brisket is good, good stuff. And it isn’t that I don’t like pork, but I happen to like beef – and some of the other meats John mentioned – better.
freelancer
Ahem. Bacon. That is all.
RadioOne
I like pork bacon, but I think pork is one of the only meats that actually requires bbq (or some other very flavoured) sauce to work for me. I can’t say the sane for beef, chicken, or seafood.
Riilism
OT, but it appears that some people know no depths to which they will sink: Four Year-Old Church Singer Performs Ain’t No Homos Gonna Make It To Heaven.
Feel bad for the kid. Wouldn’t want to share heaven (if it existed) with these “adults”….
Villago Delenda Est
Someone had to do this:
Lisa: No I can’t! I can’t eat any of them!
Homer: Wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute. Lisa honey, are you saying you’re *never* going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad! Those all come from the same animal!
Homer: [Chuckles] Yeah, right Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.
robertdsc-iPhone 4
If any of my usual places had pork with white rice, I’d be so happy. I can get beef, chicken, or Spam, but regular pork is just so good.
Yes I know Spam is made from pork, but Spam has its own flavor.
freelancer
@Villago Delenda Est:
Someone did.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Riilism: Happened to see that on Lawrence O’Donnell’s show tonight. Disgusting. In the interview afterward, Barney Frank called it “child abuse”.
Villago Delenda Est
@freelancer:
Oh. I didn’t see the link.
Doh!
Steeplejack
@Cole:
Sent you a message on the chronic pain thread.
John Cole
You are doing it wrong. Really, really wrong.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Heh. I was thinking of that exact same snippet.
Eric the Infrequent
Amen my brother!
Riilism
@The prophet Nostradumbass: I just kept thinking what if this kid turns out to be gay and has that video to contend with later on….
The prophet Nostradumbass
@John Cole: Agreed. For instance, a properly cooked pork chop, on the bone, is absolutely fantastic.
mac
You just haven’t learned how to roast chicken properly.
It’s not that I disagree that BBQ pork isn’t fantastic, but you have to mix things up.
0. Good quality bird. (Fatty yellow Tyson is right out.)
1. Medium heat pepper rub (New Mexico, Ancho, or Harrissa) laid on thick.
2. Lots of heavy-grain salt.
3. Fresh rosemary under the skin.
4. Cooked high then low
And then you have some really interesting leftovers
Frex: http://www.amazon.com/Bird-Oven-Then-Some-Delectable/dp/1906868336
The prophet Nostradumbass
Jonathan Turley is Very Concerned about Eric Holder’s treacherous meeting some Black preachers about voting rights.
Bookworm
As far as meat/fowl in general, I can go with any of the top contenders. As for BBQ, I have to say the pig rules, and here is why:
In the 1970s and 1980s in Montana, the preferred form of holiday celebration (Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, birthdays, rodeos, etc.) was a pig roast in the woods. The host would generally procure a whole pig cut into major sections… front quarters, hind quarters, ribs/loin/belly sections. These were tightly wrapped in foil and wrapped again in chicken wire. The day before the celebration, the host and various brave cohorts would head to the camping area, dig a pit, and start a huge wood fire, primarily pine or fir. When the fire had reduced to hot coals, the pig was placed on them and covered with more hot coals, followed by a thin layer of earth. The host and brave cohorts would then usually build a campfire and stay up drinking around it for half the night.
The next day, the celebrants would arrive, setting up camp with everything from RVs to family tents to pup tents to sleeping bags around the fire. Everyone brought salads, sides, and desserts, and of course, prodigious amounts of beer and wine. When all was assembled, the pig was unearthed, unwrapped to cheering for the indescribable odor, and prepared for eating. The hostess usually had a special home recipe of barbecue sauce to pour over it… not slavishly imitating the “Carolina” or “Texas” tradition, but a sauce of one’s own. The smell of the roasted meat was intoxicating. The portions were huge and crudely cut, because the thing was falling apart. The best part of the pig was the crispy, brown layer of roasted fat surrounding the tender meat that needed neither knife or fork.
And the best part was, after the eating and the drinking, during the singing around the campfire when the kids were in their beds, people would get up one by one and drift back to the pig, pulling off handfuls of the still-warm succulent meat and eating it just standing there. It was perfection.
Those who were still sober enough packaged up and refrigerated the pig and people took it home the next day. But it would never taste quite the same.
Nellcote
You and Anthony Bourdain.
goblue72
Pork is the magic meat – something professional chefs are in agreement on. Pork gives us lard, a magic cooking and baking fat with a fantastically neutral flavor and high smoke point. Pork gives us charcuterie – sausages, rillettes, pate, prosciutto, coppa, bresaola, guanciale, pancetta, soppressata. Pork gives us smoked hams and bacon – including one of the finest manipulations of a meat on the planet – Iberico ham. Pork butt for BBQ and slow roasts. Chops and loins for the searing pan. Its guts are usable as sausage casing and its head for head cheese. Even its skin is edible as cracklin’ and chiccaron.
YellowJournalism
“If I was stuck on a desert island, all I would want is fresh water, coconuts, tropical fruits, and wild boar (I’m assuming there would be ample seafood). Well maybe an island girl. ”
So what marinade would you use for island girl?
Bookworm
@Maude: I think you mean a wild “boar.” A wild “bore” would be someone perhaps like Donald Trump.
burnspbesq
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
Jonathan Turley can kiss my raggedly white ass. This is no different that senior Treasury and IRS people speaking at continuing legal education seminars for tax lawyers. There is a legitimate interest in hearing how the government lawyers responsible for enforcing the law plan to do that, and they have a legitimate interest in fostering voluntary compliance by explaining where they are going to draw the lines.
Annamal
Geeking out here but Tom Neale ( who voluntarily stranded himself on a desert island for years at a time) disagrees with you.
There’s a really creepy section in the book where he had to hunt down the last few wild pigs on his island because they were destroying his crops.
He didn’t eat them either.
http://www.amazon.com/An-Island-Oneself-Tom-Neale/dp/0918024765
Parmenides
I’m sorry that you don’t understand the BBQ is only pork. I won’t comment defiantly on the necessary sauce. I’m partial to a midlands Carolina mustard but a wet mopped north carolina is also good. Beaufort South Carolina has a Mayonnaise based sauce that I’ve only heard of and never tried.
As for who ever said that beef was harder then pork to slow cook, I’m not real sure what your talking about. Briscuit is the easiest meat in the world. Just go slow and it will turn out fine.
Comrade Scrutinizer
Pigz rule!
Montarvillois
I can live, and mostly do, without any of those meats but keep me supplied with chicken eggs.
moot23
Pork is the meat of kings.
Pew
“If I was stuck on a desert island, all I would want is fresh water, coconuts, tropical fruits, and wild boar…”
As it happens, way back in the day, that’s exactly what the Spaniards did — seeded every tiny coconut isle in the Caribbean with a herd of pigs, for any passing sailors to avail themselves. And many did — so-called “buccans”, who would live on the beach and roast their meats on open fires.
Inevitably the Spaniards came back, and kicked them off the islands. In a fit of piqued revenge they turned their hands to piracy, raidin’ an’ pillagin’ all up and down the Spanish Main, and gave us ‘buccaneers’.
Haaar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buccaneer
Schlemizel
I like pork BBQ well enough but my fav was beef ribs and that seems to be about impossible to get. Pork ribs are more tender & meaty (and cheaper) so they are more popular.
But anyway I see a world where pork BBQ rules & it is tougher to find beef.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Ailuridae: “How do you resolve that?”
With a good pit, some smoke and a good BBQ sauce. :p
kerFuFFler
About 40 years ago I used to love the tender, moist delicious pork loin roast my mom would serve. As a grownup, the handful of times I have attempted to recreate this dish I was really disappointed—–not only was the texture inferior, but the flavor was decidedly “off”. I’ve noticed it in restaurants too when I’ve had pork chops—-they are tough, dry and nasty tasting. I think pork now tastes like what they currently feed pigs. (The pork I enjoyed forty years ago was from Mexico and presumably still fed an old fashioned feed.)
The only way to make pork tasty now is to turn it into ham, bacon or whatever to cover the essential nastiness of modern pork.
eastriver
You are wrong. Pig is good, but not better. Animal Farm is WRONG.
Ron
@kerFuFFler: I don’t get that at all. I have cooked the generic pork you get at the supermarket and had it turn out wonderfully. If anything, pork today should taste better since you don’t have to cook it well done anymore. When I was growing up, pork was always cooked to well done because of worries about trichinosis, but that has basically been eliminated so you can cook pork to a medium rare/medium. If you are getting tough,dry pork, it’s most likely a case of just overcooking it.
On a separate note, for beef, the one cut that is relatively reasonably priced that I’ve found that is just wonderful is what the shop we get it from calls “Petite Filet”. It’s also sometimes called “Petite shoulder filet” or “Teres Major”. If you can get it, I highly recommend it.
AndyG
Pork – it’s the meat of kings….
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Pork+Remix/
gogol's wife
I love pork, but I don’t eat it any more, precisely because of what Ailuridae writes above. Yet every time I read this blog I have to stare at a picture of a pig being tortured. It is really getting to me. I wonder how much longer it will last.
MoZeu
I could not agree more. A big favorite around here is pork carnitas. I make it in the slow cooker and finish it in the oven. Best use for a pork shoulder or Boston butt I know of. Pair it with some fabulous, achiote-laden rice and beans . . . heaven!
Adding on to your larger point . . . why do those abominations, turkey “sausage” and chicken “sausage,” even exist?
But McDonald’s is going too far for me, because I won’t buy commercial meat; I have to know the animals were raised and slaughtered humanely. Especially pork, because pigs really are pretty amazing animals.
MoZeu
I could not agree more. A big favorite around here is pork carnitas. I make it in the slow cooker and finish it in the oven. Best use for a pork shoulder or Boston butt I know of. Pair it with some fabulous, achiote-laden rice and beans . . . heaven!
Adding on to your larger point . . . why do those abominations, turkey “sausage” and chicken “sausage,” even exist?
But McDonald’s is going too far for me, because I won’t buy commercial meat; I have to know the animals were raised and slaughtered humanely. Especially pork, because pigs really are pretty amazing animals.
Mike Nardozzi
John, as a Kansan who has eaten more than his fair share of proper BBQ, dined in the sacred original Arthur Bryants, and smoked my own meats for years, I can state unequivocally that Pork is BBQ.
What you are seeing on the TV box is America’s “Bigger is better” fetish.
St. Louis style ribs, prepared by someone that knows what they’re doing (because their daddy taught them) isnt even the same category of food as beef bbq.
Alan
@kerFuFFler:
This Mother Jones article supports avoiding factory raised pork. It’s best to find a local farm you can trust to supply your meats.
Regarding triglycerides, reducing the insulin spiking foods (breads, chips, sweets, etc.) in our diets will reduce blood triglycerides, not avoiding fat. Avoiding Omega-6 laden fats will reduce inflammation, primarily found in vegetable and seed oils–especially peanut oil–and interestingly enough, pork and chicken fat (probably due to their feed).
RedKitten
Pork is freaking amazing. In our household, we eat a lot of pork, lamb and fish. Not much beef or chicken — just once in awhile.
Kind of funny that you mention pork today, as just last night my husband and I decided to pay a visit this weekend to this place. Their spiced capicola would make you weep tears of joy.
Gin & Tonic
A-fucking-men. Pork fat makes everything better (well, except maybe for coffee.) BBQ means pig. Everything else goes in the trash.
Kent
When using a BBQ sauce to slow cook I prefer pork. Pulled pork butt cooked all day in a slow cooker is incredibly hard to mess up and comes out fabulous.
When grilling chicken which I do even more I prefer to use lemon pepper or other herb flavors (not BBQ sauce) and do it on the rotisserie unless its breasts in which case I just grill them with an herb rub.
When cooking beef I like doing roasts on the rotisserie or sometimes do steak skewers with vegetables. I cook beef a lot, just not with BBQ sauce or using BBQ methods.
I live in Texas, the land of beef brisket but I just don’t really appreciate it I guess. I’d much rather have a great pulled pork sandwich over the typical Texas BBQ brisket on white bread with pickles and onions.
Interrobang
Personally, I think pig tastes foul, unless it’s been rubbed in five-spice and honey and cooked until all the fat is out. There’s a really good Chinese BBQ place here, and I don’t even bother really eating pork anywhere else anymore, aside from some ham sometimes.
I don’t even especially like bacon, and, having had some recently, I’m wondering how anybody manages to even swallow prosciutto without covering it in something else that masks the flavour and the fact that it’s greasy, more fat than meat, and has that weird greased-plastic texture that you sometimes get from oily-fish sashimi.
If we’re going to do non-Chinese barbecue, give me my dad’s garlic-spiked roast beef done on his Kamado pot any day. The skin on that will change your mind about roast beef forever.
Hell, I was in Israel for a week back in November, didn’t eat anything grilled the whole time, and didn’t miss it.
The Red Pen
The pig is a sacred meat in a lot of native European traditions, not the least of which is Roman. Ham is a meat you have to eat in feasts celebrating Apollo, for example.
This created quite a firestorm of debate in early Christianity. Certainly Jesus never would have considered eating — much less touching — pig flesh, so what did that mean for Christians? In the end, practicality won out. Non-Jewish converts were enthusiastic about the brotherhood of Christ, OK with praying to a Jewish deity (as long as he was retooled to look sufficiently like Zeus) and there was never any shortage of Romans willing to join the latest trendy mystery religion.
Bacon, however, was non-negotiable.
gnomedad
@Ailuridae:
Indulging myself as an armchair shrink here, the bluster suggests someone trying to convince himself that this is OK. And I say this as an admittedly hypocritical mostly-vegetarian. Cole has already flipped on politics; maybe we’ll see another conversion down the road.
Scratch
@Ron:
There is another difference between the pork of today and the pork of years ago. It is much leaner with less fat, and this does affect the flavor of the pork. You correctly point out that one way to offset that is by not cooking the pork to as high of a temperature which was necessary in past years, but I still think there is a difference in the flavor and texture.
Today’s pork, even if not cooked as thoroughly, still tends to be a bit drier and it just doesn’t have quite as rich of a flavor. Especially the pork chops of today. Pork chops of today are nowhere near as good as the ones I had when a young kid.
rikryah
nothing beats the pig.
sorry…nothing better than some ribs or rib tips done well.
PopeRatzy
The only question this weekend is:
St. Louis Ribs
or
Baby Back Ribs
6-8 hour smoke at 225f, John Slaw (can’t be cole here) and fresh Brentwood white corn on the cob. With NY Style Cheese cake drenched in fresh raspberries.
deep
John, never stop being awesome.
Ian
Pork has to be cooked well done. Beef does not.
Beef wins.
Forum Transmitted Disease
@Ian: Not the case any more. I thought this for a long time too, always got the “you’ll get trichinosis!” warning from the maternal unit.
Turns out the last case of trichinosis in the United States was in 1966, 46 years ago. We can stop worrying. I now do all my pork medium to medium-rare. So awesome!
Forum Transmitted Disease
@Ailuridae: With a fork and knife.
Best meat I’ve ever had was whale. Like beefy tuna belly. Worst is probably dog. Too lean, no flavor.
Critters eat each other, it’s what we do! You think that when you die your body’s just going to sit in a crypt forever, untouched? And yet I see no protests against flies and worms for daring to eat the smartest (debatable) creature on the planet, people.
AnnaN
…and your pets, right?
Who else but Tunch could take down that wild boar? While Rosie snaps at water reflections and Lily gives you a look that reads, “oh baby, don’t be pouty, I know you coulda taken down that pig yourself.”
gnomedad
@Forum Transmitted Disease:
And what better role models?
Sometimes, just sometimes, getting away from “natural” behavior is a good thing (see: tribalism, racism, the strong beating the shit out of the weak, etc.). And factory farming sure as hell ain’t natural, although it is admittedly “what we do”.
horatius
You poor misguided soul John Cole. You think you had it made with pigs?
Did you ever taste wild boar? Pigs got nothing on them.
r€nato
John Cole, you dig on the lardo? Have you made lardo di colonnata? We’ll make an honorary Italian out of you yet…
schrodinger's cat
I prefer seafood, especially shell fish to any meat. Crabs, shrimp and lobster win the taste test any time for me.
Deb T
My brother went wild pig hunting in Oklahoma a month ago. These aren’t boars. They are pigs that got loose or were abandoned. Apparently they have thrived so well in the brush that they’ve become destructive that it’s open season on them all year long. So my bro and his band of merry hunters, went down and shot a couple of pigs. They said it was delicious.
In BBQ I love the pulled pork sandwich. I also love burnt ends even though they are beef, but like you, gotta love the pork. The other white meet.
Deb T
@Forum Transmitted Disease:
Rare pork! I just couldn’t do that. I suppose it’s psychological. Steak Tartar? No way.
I can eat sushi as long as it’s fish or eel, but they have some raw beef dishes that I can’t eat.
I suppose my momma drilled it into me as a child. Raw chicken was like radioactive. I suppose it’s a cultural thing.
I do like rare steak, but even that worries me a little.
Mnemosyne
@Deb T:
IIRC, pigs are one of the domesticated animals that can go feral (cats are another). They can get pretty nasty, too, since they have no fear of humans.
@Deb T:
Raw steak is usually safe to eat, and modern pork is safe at much lower temperatures than before they figured out how to control trichinosis. Raw chicken is ALWAYS a hazard, though, since chickens carry salmonella.
Cacti
BBQ – cuts of pork or a whole hog, slow cooked over aromatic wood.
Beef Brisket – what Texas disphits consider BBQ, due to their general lack of skill with pork
Anyone who says cooking a packer cut of brisket is harder than a whole hog needs their head examined.
If you watch pitmasters you may have noticed that Lee Ann Whippen was on the professional circuit for years before she even attempted her first whole hog.
feebog
Pork for smoking, beef for grilling, thats my rule. Love to smoke a 7 to 8 lb. pork shoulder in my slow cooker. Takes about 10 hours, but the pork comes out tender and moist. I usuall wrap it in foil for the last two hours or so.
Don’t really care for beef brisket that much, although I had some on my birthday last week that was pretty good.
Petorado
Well, it’s hard to argue against that point.
While pork may be the king of BBQ, elk is the best thing on the grill. And yes, there is a difference between real BBQ and grilled meat.
Ian
No one has mentioned chopped beef brisket yet. It makes pulled pork look like BS.
Ian
We tend to use pork for sausage here (Texas). I’ve had good and bad pulled pork, in many parts of the country, with or without many different types of sauces.
I tend to like saucy bbq, and brisket more than any other meat. Though sausage is really, really good too.
eemom
@Ailuridae:
How does Cole “resolve” it? Simple. Different day, different side of his ass.
pk
@Forum Transmitted Disease:
Let me know when flies and worms start factory farms and kill the “smartest creatures” with unimaginable cruelty.
pragmatism
what about teh mcrib? my black colleague (we have a mcdonalds super close by) says that the mcrib kills more black people than the sickle cell.
i chalk a lot of this preference to geography. people like what is readily available and commercially done well in their area or where they grew up. hence, i love tri-tip.
tommyspoon
@Ailuridae: Look, if the pigs didn’t taste so delicious I wouldn’t be eating them. ;-)
tybee
“Let me know when flies and worms start factory farms and kill the “smartest creatures” with unimaginable cruelty.”
how do you know they haven’t? :)
grandpa john
Depends on the section of the country, here in The south at least NC,SC , and GA It is pork,pork,pork, I don’t think I have ever seen a place that specializes in beef bar-b-queand I kn ow exactly what you are talking about with tri-glycerides. I look at a plate of good que and mine goes up 50 points
dnfree
People sometimes ask me if I became a vegetarian for health reasons or for moral reasons. Here’s my three-part answer.
1) We don’t eat dogs and cats in this country. They’re pets. That would be disgusting. But they do eat dogs and cats in some countries. I finally realized that there is no difference. Most of us have been conditioned since childhood to eat meat and to see a difference between food animals and pets, but really, what is that difference?
2) It’s not based on intelligence. As stated above, pigs are more intelligent than dogs for the most part. I remember a Computerworld picture from a long time ago showing pigs voluntarily playing a “pong”-like video game, for fun. And we don’t eat people who are mentally disabled.
3) It’s not based on “what tastes good”. For all I know, dogs, cats, and people taste great.
So what is it based on other than habit?
John Cole
@eemom: Yes, because enjoying pig and not wanting to eat pigs that are mistreated as they are raised are mutually exclusive thoughts.
You seriously are the most bitter person I know.
Andrew
WTF?! Lamb beats both Pork and Beef barbecued hands down.