Somebody in the last thread asked for a serious take on NRN. So far, the panels I’ve attended have been good. For example, the elections horserace panel run by the Kos elections crew had a Q&A where it was clear that the panel members had the details of every contested race at their fingertips, and they had a reasonable, fact-based perspective on the races they were asked about. And then there was the big money v smart money deathmatch. This is the contradiction I see at NRN and maybe in Progressive activism generally: there’s the overly earnest, fairly silly stuff that’s the product of well-intentioned, passionate people who are off in the weeds, and then there are the smart wonks who are far more sober and far less entertaining. A few days ago, someone in the comments said something like progressivism is the fear that somewhere, somehow, someone might not know how much you care. There’s a lot of that here, along with the serious stuff.
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Baud
That was me. Thanks!
FWIW, I think you can (and need to) have both. The problem arises when the two sides are competing with each other for attention, rather than complementing each others’ strengths.
Maude
@Baud:
It’s hard to respond to He’s worse than Bush, He sold us out.
You can’t reason with that.
Baud
@Maude: Agreed. But I don’t consider that “silly stuff”; silly stuff is the coin thing in the prior thread.
The “he sold us out” thing is purely corrosive. The only thing you can do with that is oppose it.
dr. bloor
There should be some sort of pool going as to which of our BJ reps at NRN melts down first (Mistermix, BuddycianciJ), when it happens, the manner in which it happens (self-immolation, naked on the roof of the Dunk with a rifle, etc, etc), and the triggering event.
Maude
@Baud:
You’re right.
The silly coin thing in that thread makes me wonder if they will have chocolate milk or regular milk at snack.
Violet
When wingnuts do silly, earnest things, like dressing up in Revolutionary war gear or wearing hats made from tea bags, they get treated like Serious Citizens and get covered by major news networks. When progressives do similar things they’re laughed at. And just how many news networks are covering NN?
cat48
There’s only BIG MONEY. The Outside Pacs can drain Obama DRY of funds, per Chait. The Billionaires are determined to win. They’re driving down his leads in Kerry states. MI shows Romney one pt. ahead.
If you’re not donated a small amt., you should if you’re interested in winning. The Billionaires are buying Mitt a Landslide.
Stuck in the Funhouse
This is their original sin. They are not progressive so much as tied to a fixed notion of what they want, and those are liberal things, as defined since The New Deal, and oblivious to the political world around them, a political world of democracy, the most disorganized and least perfect system for governance.
It is barely managed chaos, always teetering on the edge of rebellion, unless everyone gets something of what they want. They want democracy to be orderly and compliant to their wont and desire, and it is rarely that. Not if it is being done right. The ideal in a democracy is a rare bird, considered to be extinct in the wild. A dictator could provide that ideal, or provide a living hell on earth. Those are the choices.
A lot of it is the impatience of youth, that many will grow out of, I think. The rest is pure self centered notions of reality. And no doubt some good stuff somewhere to be found. Hopefully.
Ask them if they want a copy of Stuck’s Guide To Pragmatic Liberalism, free of charge with 99 dollars shipping and handling.
Ben Franklin
“smart” money is good, but Big Money is better.
I would rather have a cache of shotgun shells than one damn-smart bullet.
But I also would rather win Lotto, than go to work.
NR
@Maude: There are issues on which Obama is worse than Bush. Like the extrajudicial killing of American citizens, for example. Obama: Yes, Bush: No.
Stuck in the Funhouse
@NR:
wrong, dumbass.
The only issue where Obama is exceeding Bush in the “war on terror”, was and is escalating the war on AQ, by more troops in Afghanistan , and increased drone attacks on them and the Taliban. Things he promised he would do during the 2008 campaign.
Heliopause
A movement needs both. Obama wouldn’t be President if he wasn’t smart and a skillful deliverer of passionate, idealistic speeches.
joes527
@Violet: I dunno. With the exception of faux news, I don’t think the costume drama tea partiers get much positive coverage. They are certainly mocked here. So the fact that penny pitching progrssives are mocked here isn’t asymetric. (Duck autocorrect.)
Anne Laurie
Hipsterism is the fear that somewhere, somehow, someone might not know how much you don’t care — and every decent person hates hipsters. At least Overcaring takes actual (if misguided) effort; Hipster Detachment is the last resort of the lazy perpetual adolescent.
I loathe the giant puppet parades as much as any agoraphobic Stoic, but don’t let’s give the Mean Bastards Party and its media courtiers more support for the “Ha ha lookit the silly DFHs” meme. Save some of that vast reservoir of bile for our real enemies, because every time a Balloon Juicer get sucked into a firebagger-vs-Obot call & response, Zombie Breitbart gets a semi-stiffie.
Just Some Fuckhead
You gunnin for yer Steely-Eyed Realist Badge?
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m glad I didn’t spend any money sending mistermix on his quest to find out what’s really wrong in the world: people who care too much.
Christ, what a waste.
Stuck in the Funhouse
I live for your sage wisdom, Anne Laurie. Both sides do it. Fucking brilliant, where did you come up with that nugget of incite from?
Pro tip. One of those parties you mentioned, supports the president from your party, assuming you are a registered democrat. The other opposes that same president. I know it’s trite, and thoroughly pedestrian to risk diluting ones deeply held beliefs with partisan rending. Some of us just can’t help ourselves to the joys of pig wrestling in the great stye of applied politics.
smintheus
@Maude: It’s Rhode Island, so coffee milk.
NR
@Stuck in the Funhouse: Did Bush specifically order the extrajudicial killing of a U.S. citizen? No, dumbass. Only Obama has done that.
Stuck in the Funhouse
@NR:
What, do you think the Bush strike was not ordered by the CiC. Did you not know that Bush also had a kill/capture list. Obama just publicized the fact he was doing the same thing.
You know what NR, I don’t fuck around much with shit for brains trolls like you anymore. But the level of your mendacity is so far and above all the other Obama haters, I make an exception. You are a soul less lizard, incapable of anything remotely like any ability to see and write on this blog, mendacious shit that is patently false, or with clarifying nuance.
There is not one iota of humility in your wanking, and when someone slaps down your bullshit, there is always another goal post to be moved. You are worthless in just about every way that is possible regarding your comments on this blog, and the closest thing we have to a right wing liberal, or whatever you call yourself. You were punked, all up and down, with the assertion Obama is the first to order kill/capture orders, to include American Citizens.
Though I don’t know what kind of fever swamp logic you post from, that you are only concerned with American AQ members, like the dude Bush ordered a drone strike on in Yemen, versus non citizens. If you are against drone strikes on principle, well, that is a perfectly legitimate position to take. But not this parsing of it can’t be Americansm, or else it is “extra judicial” is pathetic for someone to claim moral superiority. Are you some kind of American Exceptionalist, that blood from non Americans living and working with AQ, should be treated with greater legal hoops to jump through, than the non American variety of terrorist. Folks like Al Alwaki who has gone on teevee declaring his services to AQ, hiding himself on foreign soil in places he can’t be arrested without a military respone. The republicans should love you, if they don’t already. Hell, you might even be one, for all we know. I don’t any of them hates Obama more than our NR
Batocchio
I went to Netroots last year. Sounds similar. It’s a good mix, and it was nice to meet some folks I knew online in real life.