Even though it’s astonishing that any union member would vote for Scott Walker, union voters not voting for a Democrat is not news, as Kevin Drum points out:
Take a look at past elections. In 2004, 38% of union members and 40% of voters in union households voted for George Bush. In 2008, 39% of union members and 38% of voters in union households voted for John McCain. In 2010, 37% of voters in union households nationwide voted for Republicans, and that’s also the share of the union vote that Walker got in Wisconsin that year.
An AFL-CIO rep at the NRN Wisconsin post-mortem thought part of this was blindness of union members to a divide-and-conquer strategy, with private union members thinking that they’d be safe from Walker, since he was only going after public union members. But there’s got to be more to it than that. Maybe 37% of union members don’t want to be in a union, because they won’t be if the Republicans they vote for keep winning elections.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
That’s probably close to the number of union members who don’t appreciate what a union does. They just take some of their money from each pay check. The bastards.
PeakVT
Or the 37% are more worried about abortion, guns, “those people”, etc., than their own jobs, pay, and benefits. It’s not like being a union member confers immunity to the poisonous parts of the Republican message.
ETA: Possibly related: PM2.5 at 589 in Wuhan. No Democrats and their job-killing regulations there. Republicans promise to bring that world back.
beltane
It’s not that they don’t love themselves, it’s just that they hate the blacksgaysmexicansfeministsetc more than they love themselves.
Also, there is a significant number of straight, white, Christian males who feel that because they are straight, white and Christian, they are sitting at the pinnacle of society and are in a position to look down their nose at others. It’s the same phenomenon that compels lots of poor white people to identify with the plutocrats just because they live in a double-wide and drive a new truck.
WereBear
@Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937: This.
I know a number of small business people who lost their business in this economy; if they wind up with a place who has a union, they don’t appreciate it.
I keep hearing, “It’s not good business to treat employees badly, we don’t need a union.”
PeakVT
@PeakVT: Gah, wrong link. Try this.
Rob in CT
You have to figure that even if a union is doing a great job for its members, some portion of the membership is gonna be disgruntled. 37-40% is high, though.
Possible reasons that come to mind:
1) As unions are less and less powerful, they are less and less effective, and thus the bang-for-the-buck is less. More resentment of paying dues.
2) The more historical distance there is between the abuses unions originally fought (terrible, unhealthy working conditions, ridiculously long hours, no time off, etc) and now, the less necessary they seem. Even to members.
3) Some union leaders might, in fact, suck.
Just off the top of my head.
Davis X. Machina
Two words — team spirit.
They’re playing for Team Red. The union membership is beside the point.
Mino
In America, the Corporations unionize.
Sly
@Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937:
And who do appreciate it but don’t want to pay for it. Right to Work Laws are designed to undermine unionization by creating a free rider problem, and a person can be a free rider whether they acknowledge they’re getting something for free or not.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@PeakVT:
This. Most blue collar union people I know who vote Repup here in Central Misery do so because they live in their particular single-issue ghetto be it guns, gays, abortion or that black fella in the *white* house.
OTOH, I work here in Club Fed with a woman who would die before she’d vote for a Democrat and is married to a union electrician who understands what the union has done for him and their family. He votes Dem and you should hear him rail at her every election season about how she votes.
Ken B.
Hasn’t the idea that people’s political views are based on logic been discredited?
I know a few Fox News types who have union jobs, they talk, act and vote just the same typical Fox News viewers. They don’t see any reason to quit a higher paying job with better benefits just to maintain a consistence world view.
No different then most people.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Have You Forgotten by Red House Painters
kay
I personally think union members who are Republicans never get mentioned because it goes against the pervasive and entrenched media/conservative myth that LABOR is this Democratic juggernaut.
Big Labor has to be even-steven with rich people pouring money into elections, so we made that parity situation up to make it “fair”. It’s not true, but that doesn’t matter.
That said, Republicans are vulnerable on union voters because the GOP union vote is key to the GOP in certain swing states, making a national analysis less relevant, as far as presidential elections. Peeling off a point or two of GOP labor voters from Romney in Ohio is damaging to him, so there’s an opening there.
My own personal opinion is that union voters who vote for the GOP are voting on taxes, so I’m not sure that Democrats should put a huge effort into winning that 25% who vote on taxes back, or we’re just going to end up with more sort of ill-informed, knee-jerk anti-tax people. They won’t HEAR that it’s “raise taxes on over 250k”. They’ll just hear “raise taxes”. That’s my anecdotal observation, anyway.
“Social issues” are a great cover to vote against “taxes” :)
Waldo
@Rob in CT: Like you said. I would add that part of it might stem from resentment over being “forced” to join a union to get a job in a closed shop. It’s shortsighted, but understandable.
Barry
“Maybe 37% of union members don’t want to be in a union, because they won’t be if the Republicans they vote for keep winning elections.”
Remember, if you belong to a union, you generally have substantial protections against the full GOP program, at least in your workplace. Many of them won’t appreciate how protected they are until somebody actually removes the helmet of their space suit.
At which point it’ll be too late.
Jessica
I’m a unionized public sector employee in NYC who wears earplugs at work to drown out the smarmy utterances of Hannity-worshipping co-workers. I’m not sure whether it’s a self-hating bureaucrat thing or just middle-aged white men disgusted by those who aren’t, although I do wonder if the I-got-mine-so-everyone-else-can-go-eat-shit mentality explains some of the hostility towards health reform in particular.
Derelict
I have to think that a big part of it is pushback against union dues. Lots of union members see their unions doing nothing to advance their personal issues–whether that’s true or not. All they see is a deduction from their paycheck each week–a deduction that only seems to finance a much better lifestyle for their union boss then they themselves enjoy.
That circumstance meshes nicely with 1) the idea that if someone else in my socio-economic bracket is doing better, they need to be taken down instead of me being lifted up, and 2) Americans are prepared to pay any price, bear any burden in the pursuit of lower taxes for the wealthy.
Rob in CT
@Waldo:
That was my #4, but I pulled it b/c don’t know how prevalent that is.
Truth be told, I’d probably be whiney about that myself. That’s an aspect of unionization I’ve never been fully comfortable with.
negative 1
I work at a union, there are a lot of our members who are republicans. That amount sounds right. For a lot of them, the belief is that we are good for collective bargaining and representing them in job actions, but that we should stay out of politics entirely. They don’t believe republicans are trying to make their assembly illegal, and they think some percentage of us in the union management are corrupt tools of the Democratic Party, or that we only play in local politics to get the contracts we want, we don’t actually weigh in on issues.
Know this though, I’ve not really met a lot of rank and file progressive union members, either in our union or others. By nature the whole thing is sort of conservative (I mean that in the true, non-political sense of the word). They are people who are fighting to stay employed in a middle-class job. They value stability. They want to work, then retire, all drama-free. And they are overwhelmingly white. All of this fits the demographic profile of a conservative. The only reason we can convince our members to enter political affiliations IMHO is because their side is so adamently calling our members leaches. Ironically, if they just ignored us we’d have a tougher time on our hands.
SpotWeld
I’ve got assuem that since unions bargan collectively there are going to be members are the upper end of the pay scale who could probably do fine without the union. (Or at least they have convinced themselves of this.)
And despite likeing what they union does for them, in a general sense, they dislike what the union does for “those people” (which could be any group that is easily considered an “other”)
So, they got thiers, screw everyone else…
flukebucket
This is really not all of that surprising. Consider how many elderly people enjoy the benefits of the New Deal but will vote for the Republican every time. Sucking the teat while cursing the mother is really not all of that uncommon.
negative 1
@SpotWeld: That’s not entirely wrong, but it’s more that they’ve convinced themselves that we don’t do all that much and that their employer would continue to pay them the same amount if we weren’t there.
As to your other paragraph, it’s not so much that as it is that they hate paying dues, and think that we don’t do anything and that their contracts, pay scale, benefits etc. would be exactly the same as if we weren’t there. From there, it’s not a tough logical leap to “the union doesn’t do anything, they’re corrupt, stealing my dues money” etc.
negative 1
@Rob in CT: Then how would we make sure that management could pay you minimum wage with no benefits while our members get an actual living wage?
Plus, when management fires you because your hair is starting to grey, we still have to defend you, by law. NO ONE HAS TO JOIN A UNION. They have to pay for the services we provide, however.
Console
As far as my job goes, it’s really just the same thing that goes with being conservative in general. A complete lack of empathy. Unions suck, except for the union they’re in. Plus, as republicans they are more likely to see their own side as reasonable. As though they can explain to the pols they like why they shouldn’t be on the chopping block while everyone else should be.
WereBear
THIS sums it right up:
rikyrah
See, this is what I mean when I say that White folks better talk to their fellow White folks. Because, I’m willing to be serious money that those union folks are White.
NOn-White folks just don’t have a history of voting against their own economic interests.
RalfW
Maybe 37% of WI union members believe this utter bullshit:
My sister-out-law and mother-out-law (no gay marriage in WI so they’re my out-laws) are both teachers in WI, and father-out-law is a retired teacher. They know what utter bullshit Walker is spewing on the Sunday shows.
Does anybody challenge him on these lies?! I think the worst thing about loosing the recall is that Walker is much more of a go-to guy for the lazy, lapdog media.
ruemara
I keep saying this and people keep discounting it. People despise unions. Even a sizable proportion of the people who are in unions. It’s not hating on gays, blacks, mexicans or what have you. It’s believing that they could do much better than the union if they could negotiate for themselves. Don’t underestimate the amount of giant huge ass ego from idiots. And yeah, I said idiots. Dumber than a brick about law, regulations, politics (besides what Rush and Fox said), only knowing about tools and the job, completely convinced that the union is holding them back from totally negotiating their $50k up to $100k, free back massages and a Porsche. Whenever possible, they vote against the union because Republicans promise lower taxes, more guns and that’s all that’s been holding them back these decades. Morons.
Linnaeus
Quick note: “voters in union households” does not equal “union members”. As illustrated in this comment upthread:
Still, there is a percentage of union members who vote Republican, and I’d say that they do so mostly because their union membership isn’t particularly salient to them. Their union is just something that’s there – which they may like or dislike – working in the background.
FlipYrWhig
@Derelict:
This is also many people’s experience of “government.”. A shadowy entity that takes hard-earned money from their paycheck and probably gives it to some lazy bastard sitting on his ass all day.
kindness
Union members (and their direct families) who vote Republican:
Willful ignorance or irrational stupidity? I vote for both.
Steve in DC
This is anecdotal of course but yes, many union members do not like the union they are in. We have unionized building, electrical, what-have-you workers around here that I have to deal with regularly and a lot of them spend a good portion of their time bitching about the union. Unions are made up of people, some people are assholes and this tints your perception of the organization as a whole.
In fact, one of the biggest reasons IT workers stubbornly refuse to unionize when it comes up is our experience dealing with unionized electrical and telco workers. Quality of work, response time, time to completion, all suffers when dealing with unionized workers. The electrical and telco goes squabble about each other as well.
Let’s also not forget that some public unions have done themselves a lot of damage, in the DC area we have a couple nasty ones. The PG County police are hilariously corrupt and notoriously violent. Any attempt to go after the bad apples sparks up the “thin blue line” of police unions and goes nowhere. To make it worse the correctional officers union is in bed with the prison industry to make sure more people get locked up because having more people in prisons is beneficial to them. Mayor Barry and other DC screw heads filled the school administration with political supporters that are often incompetent and block any reform that isn’t “here is your blank check”, and you can’t do anything about it because you run into union problems.
Of course, the Arlington Police department is just fine and nobody gripes, same with the DC PD. But when you say “Police Union” around here everybody thinks of the clown show that is PG county and get’s pissed.
People tend to focus on the negative, and there are certainly instances where unions, or certain groups associated with a union, drive people up the wall. It’s not uncommon for cops to point out that the police departments need reforming and that their are bad cops but the union prevents them from doing anything.
How you feel about the police union is going to be highly affected by your interactions with the cops.
negative 1
@Steve in DC:
Ordovician Bighorn Dolomite (formerly rarely seen poster Fe E)
@ruemara:
That’s certainly not a negligible component to this–but there are more than a few who truly just really hate gays and minorities. I work for the state and my most right wing co-workers are also VERY effective shop stewards. They love the union becase they know how to get co-workers they dislike fired, and have plenty of ways to annoy their supervisors by citing the contract, but are right wing Christians, and that just trumps everything.
(I mention the “gay thing” because one the workers in questions has been repeatedly disciplined for vandalizing/throwing out gay themed literature and displays.)
beergoggles
I got a co-worker who’s a staunch Dem but hates the union because they wouldn’t go to bat for him when he was being moved from field duty to a desk job. Totally understandable after paying dues for 20 years, at least a modicum of union backing would have probably been appropriate. There are just too many really bad union reps who are there due to seniority and not charisma or ability and it’ll eventually just drive us into the ground.
HRA
You could not work in my state job without joining the union.
Some years ago the union decided to have a PAC. The rep came around asking for opinions on it. Almost all were against it. It made no difference. For a while you could get the personal money allotted to the PAC back and then it stopped. My money going to someone who is not my choice ticked me off. I was not the only one.
We had eyesight and dental benefits for years. More recently we have it through our health insurance. No one offered any explanation.
Recently we had to vote on whether we would give the governor 9 days of our pay to “save the jobs of others”. Everyone I know voted no and we lost. The others in our dept. who belong to another union did not have to contribute.
The icing on the cake is our rep. was removed from his position for wrongdoings.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
No, that’s it right there. Generally speaking, white people in America hate to see anyone else get anything, and straight white men are the most certain of their innate superiority.
Bruce S
Don’t want to downplay the problem – it’s major. But I think we make a mistake if we assume most union members’ identity is closely aligned with their union membership per se. People tend to be shortsighted. This is one data point. Today it’s a rare union member who has fought for their union – it’s handed to them, likely perceived in terms of not being a choice, experienced as another bureaucracy – which may or may not be seen as serving them well and rubs against random individualism – and it’s not a major part of their lives. I’m not so surprised at this in terms of union membership itself – it fits into the larger “What’s the matter with Kansas” question, where cultural, religious and resentment issues tend to trump class.
Bruce S
“free rider problem”
Ironic, isn’t it, that the party of “personal responsibility” seems always to encourage free riders, most notably in our health care system – which St. Ronald mandated has to take care of anyone who shows up at an emergency room. St. Ronald, of course, was a free market guy – while Obama’s mandate that folks buy in to help pay for mandated care is “socialism.”
negative 1
@HRA:
Bruce S
@rikyrah:
You’re willing to “bet serious money” that these union-member GOP voters are white?
I wouldn’t call that a bet – given the % of black folks who vote GOP. I’d call it open-and-shut, rock-solid, a lock, etc. etc. But if anyone takes you up on this “bet”, I’d like their email address because I’ve got a proverbial bridge I’d like to sell them.
Anytime you “bet” on a large cohort of white folks having their heads up their collective ass, you win. Just saying.
LanceThruster
Since switching jobs long ago I am no longer in a union, but could somebody please explain why the GOP gets so much mileage out of the “Right to Work” movement/policy/whatever.
What’s the move to keep unions from putting membership dues towards political activism?
Thanks in advance.
LT
El Cid
Unions used to see it as a core focus of their organizations to try to politically educate members.
Organizing internally is often seen as “preaching to the choir”, but it’s a way of doing what you can to increase organizational coherence and strength.
bemused
What makes people who complain about union workers not doing their jobs competently, too slowly, lying down on the job, standing around wasting time (usually without much evidence and anecdotal) and so on think that non-union workers are so vastly superior?
I often want to ask union employees who vehemently despise unions why they don’t get a non-union job and stick to their principles but I think they would start frothing at the mouth.
HRA
@negative 1:
“That’s illegal so I’m betting that you’re misinformed. However, I will say this about the PAC (since our union has one also)—you’re complaining because you didn’t like a furlow and the governor told you to shove it up your a$$, but you have no one representing you politically. Hmm, I wonder if those two things are related?”
You assume too much and I do not personally know the governor for him to say what you think he said to me. IOW, I do understand you are a union advocate. At the same time it’s much better to stay classy.
The PAC began about 20 years ago and the furlough is this year. It was also illegal to put political material in our mailboxes at work and it did happen until someone had it halted.
I have worked in the private sector under a union and in the public sector under a union.
Bemused#44 I would fathom to guess they have had a bad personal experience regarding the union. It’s a very common
occurrence.
The reason most people chose to work under a union was the job safety in employment.
Comrade Dread
Well, on the one hand, you wouldn’t have to pay union dues, and on the other hand, you’d be making minimum wage, have to pay more for health care, work uncompensated overtime, lose sick leave, and get to work until you die because you can’t afford retirement.
The choice is clear. Down with the tyranny of unions and their benefits! Freedom! Wolverines!
bemused
One of the complaints I have heard most often from union bashers is that they know someone whether they are union or not or if it is a fellow employee or not that was able to retire early or get “special” treatment on the job due to a job-related injury that they “know” was really not that bad. They “know” those people are faking the severity of that back or whatever injury even if the employee had one or more surgeries. No doubt there are some that do milk the system but the complainers are convinced it is rampant just like voter fraud.
Yes, they hate the union but love the job safety and benefits just as entitlement hating SS/Medicare recipients depend on theirs.
ellennelle
those numbers are no doubt inflated just a bit by the likes of hannity, o’reilly, and – yes -rush, union members all (aftra)!
not to mention sarah palin, coulter, beck…. the whole gang.
burritoboy
My mom is in a union, and, while she hasn’t voted in decades, dislikes her union pretty strongly. They’ve bungled almost every action she needed them to do, including stuff that was totally internal to the union, so there was no possible excuse for the union to mess them up or claim management did it. They couldn’t find their own internal forms for elections of shop stewards for months at a clip, for instance.
negative 1
@HRA: Telling someone to stop with the fliers is a whole stretch different then illegally keeping someone’s money – you can’t force them to contribute to a PAC, and anyone who works for a union knows it. I think you’re lying, or pitifully misinformed.
And if you’re concerned that I stay classy, I’ll try again. The governor did something you didn’t like, but you want to do away with the one form of political pressure the union has. You’re as classy a fool as you would like to be.