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You are here: Home / Dumbing Us Down

Dumbing Us Down

by John Cole|  June 15, 20121:05 pm| 96 Comments

This post is in: Our Failed Media Experiment

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Remember a couple years ago when there were barbie dolls marketed to girls, and they came with a pull string that when you pulled on it the doll would issue some statement. One of the statements was “Math class is tough!,” and people were rightly pissed off. That’s kind of how I feel about the entire press corps right about now, particularly after reading this:

President Obama sometimes forgets that an important speech does not have to be endless. On Thursday, appearing before supporters at a Cleveland community college, he spent 53 minutes on the stark contrast between his goals and the failed Bush-era policies that Mitt Romney is trying to resurrect. It’s hard to imagine that the speech, overgrown as it was with policy details, won the hearts of many independent voters yearning for a clear understanding of how much is at stake in November.

OMG! HE SPOKE FOR 50 MINUTES. LISTENING IS TOUGH.

Fifty minutes is about the same amount of time as your average high school or college lecture, but we’re being told by the media that it’s just too hard for Americans to sit and listen about one of the more important choices they have to make in their lives. No, it appears that our media would rather politicians stick to five minute speeches packed with lies (they make better sound bites), rather than 50 minutes of being treated like an adult.

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Reader Interactions

96Comments

  1. 1.

    El Cid

    June 15, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Yeah, but what if the Beltway press is waiting for the luncheon or snacks which follow? That’s, like, a loooong time when you’re really hungry.

  2. 2.

    trollhattan

    June 15, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    “You know who else gave long speeches…”

    (Somebody had to.)

  3. 3.

    dr. bloor

    June 15, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    rather than 50 minutes of being treated like an adult.

    If you’re not ready for it, you’re not ready for it.

  4. 4.

    dr. bloor

    June 15, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    @El Cid: Maybe Obama should stop giving speeches just before lunch period.

  5. 5.

    Martin

    June 15, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Running the country shouldn’t require more than 3 pages.

  6. 6.

    Brachiator

    June 15, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    @trollhattan:

    “You know who else gave long speeches…”

    Castro? Hugo Chavez?

    New Rule: If you can’t deliver a political stump speech as a Twitter post, it shouldn’t be given at all.

    On the other hand, newspapers and news magazines keep shrinking. Pretty soon a single speech will take up the entire print issue.

    Also, too. Journalist Hack Barbie: Reportifying is hard.

  7. 7.

    Hunter Gathers

    June 15, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    People will watch hours of American Idol every week, 6 hours of football on Sundays in the fall, pay 10 bucks for a 2 hour movie but a 50 minute speech is too long.

    Dear MSM – just call him an uppity nigger and get it over with. It might get you invited to one of Sally Quinn’s 3 hour dinner parties.

  8. 8.

    taylormattd

    June 15, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Yup. The media is the worst problem facing the country, period. We have no hope until they are fixed.

  9. 9.

    Steve

    June 15, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    The classic example of the genre was Clinton’s 1999 SOTU, which was heavy on policy and extremely well-received by the electorate, but universally panned by the media for being way too long. They used to do the same thing when Gore would hold long town halls where he would answer everyone’s questions. Fundamentally, these people are just lazy and would prefer you just give them a sound bite so they can send in their story and go have a beer.

  10. 10.

    Splitting Image

    June 15, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    They’re not kidding when they say they don’t want to be lectured to.

  11. 11.

    ornery_curmudgeon

    June 15, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    @taylormattd: The media is the worst problem facing the country, period.

    Agreed … they are corporate owned working for a corporate agenda, and folks make endless excuses for their behavior.

  12. 12.

    Monkey Business

    June 15, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    I know people that work as reporters, and they work insanely hard.

    Notably, none of them are Washington political reporters, who I’m convinced are literally the laziest people on the planet Earth.

  13. 13.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 15, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    @trollhattan: Lincoln and Douglas?

    The format for each debate was: one candidate spoke for 60 minutes, then the other candidate spoke for 90 minutes, and then the first candidate was allowed a 30-minute “rejoinder.”

  14. 14.

    pseudonymous in nc

    June 15, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Shorter political media: we have the attention span of mayflies-OMGtwitter.

  15. 15.

    MikeBoyScout

    June 15, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    So much FAIL in so few words!

    Let’s review!

    1. Mind reading! President Obama sometimes forgets
    2. Mixed metaphors! overgrown as it was with policy details
    3. Romance! won the hearts of
    4. Even MORE mind reading! many independent voters yearning

    Better opinions were written by my Junior High School newspaper.

  16. 16.

    mouse tolliver

    June 15, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    It was surreal yesterday to watch the speech live and hear the audience’s enthusiastic response, and then to see Jonathan Alter’s Debbie Downer reaction, calling it a failure. WTF? But then these are the same people who call the Bain Capital attacks a misstep even though polling suggests the Bain strategy is working.

  17. 17.

    Ruviana

    June 15, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    John, it’s creeping old age I guess but that “Math is tough” Barbie thing happened in 1992! /pedant

    ETA: Sheesh! It’s even in your link!

  18. 18.

    the Conster

    June 15, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    This country has become too stupid to live. I think all the evidence is in. Sorry youngsters – I had such high hopes for my boomer cohort, but instead we ate everything in sight, including the seed corn, and are now walking our fat asses around with our middle fingers held high yelling IGMFY, with the FAIL media getting our backs because we’re #1, because shut up that’s why. WTF.

  19. 19.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    June 15, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Policy stuffs is too hard, better to pretend Obama personally pushed a button that made everyone’s lives absolutely rotten and that Romney would never press that button as Prez.

  20. 20.

    Mark S.

    June 15, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Oddly, the second to last paragraph makes your point:

    Mr. Romney’s entire campaign rests on a foundation of short, utterly false sound bites. The stimulus failed. (Three million employed people beg to differ.) The auto bailout was a mistake. (Another million jobs.) Spending is out of control. (Spending growth is actually lower than under all modern Republican presidents.)

    But then it’s back to “The speech was too long!”

  21. 21.

    Roy G.

    June 15, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    These corporate-political fluffers are blowing their cover. They yearn to be famous entertainers, and ‘reporter’ is just a role in the Beltway passion play – replacing/augmenting the traditional Fool’s role in the King’s Court.

    It’s what the geriatric dead media audience wants, after all.

  22. 22.

    Felanius Kootea

    June 15, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    But they also said this, John:

    That doesn’t mean that the principal point Mr. Obama made on Thursday isn’t worth considerable repetition: There is no meaningful difference between the trickle-down economics of George W. Bush, rejected by the country in 2008, and the plans supported by Mr. Romney and his Republican allies in Congress. All the elements are there, from the slavish devotion to tax cuts for the rich, to a contempt for government regulation, to savage cutbacks in programs for those at the bottom.

    and this

    And it is there that Mr. Obama still has not made his case. Mr. Romney’s entire campaign rests on a foundation of short, utterly false sound bites. The stimulus failed. (Three million employed people beg to differ.) The auto bailout was a mistake. (Another million jobs.) Spending is out of control. (Spending growth is actually lower than under all modern Republican presidents.) He says these kinds of things so often that millions of Americans believe them to be the truth.

    The NYTimes pointing out that Willard Fucking Mitt Romney is a *habitual liar* is fantastic in my book, even if they beat up Obama a little.

  23. 23.

    Yutsano

    June 15, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    @Mark S.: BOTH SIDES DO IT!! OPINIONS DIFFER!! MUST HAVE BALANCE!! WHERE’S MY TIRE SWING??

  24. 24.

    Mike E

    June 15, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Now, if he had forced participants to sign loyalty oaths and/or beat dissenters, then he would’ve gotten some journo respect. Amirite?

  25. 25.

    Davis X. Machina

    June 15, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts: Audiences stood, and the speakers spoke without amplification.

    There were giants in the earth in those days.

  26. 26.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 15, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    Gitmo for Pundits!

  27. 27.

    Keith

    June 15, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    Speeches will be long when your opponent’s plan for America is “the opposite of what the other guy is doing and double what the previous guy did”

  28. 28.

    El Cid

    June 15, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    BOOOOOORING! There are too many words in this post!

  29. 29.

    gwangung

    June 15, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    It was surreal yesterday to watch the speech live and hear the audience’s enthusiastic response, and then to see Jonathan Alter’s Debbie Downer reaction, calling it a failure. WTF? But then these are the same people who call the Bain Capital attacks a misstep even though polling suggests the Bain strategy is working.

    I think this is of a piece with the reaction to the 2008 debates. The punditry has a dis-connect with the population and has absolutely no idea of what connects with them or not.

  30. 30.

    rlrr

    June 15, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    “Numbers suck. There are too many of them.”
    — the media

  31. 31.

    Davis X. Machina

    June 15, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    @Davis X. Machina: You can get recordings of the whole series of debates, with Stephen Douglas read by Richard Dreyfus, and Lincoln read by David Strathairn

  32. 32.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    June 15, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Shorter Press Corp: “OBAMA IS ELITIST BECAUSE HE SPEAKS TO US LIKE ADULTS! WE WANNA BE TREATED LIKE CHILDREN, DADDY!”

  33. 33.

    trollhattan

    June 15, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Speaking of…Gary Wills’ “Lincoln at Gettysburg” is a worthwhile consideration of Lincoln’s brief remarks (very unusual for the times) compared to Edward Everett’s two-hour oration immediately before.

    The DVRs of the day could scarcely store ten minutes of standard-definition video, so were a good match to the Lincoln speech.

  34. 34.

    Scott S.

    June 15, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    In my darker moments — which are, frankly, almost all my moments these days — I fantasize about how great it would be to round up all the pundits and national political reporters and pull a Nitocris on them.

  35. 35.

    Gretchen

    June 15, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    I waited in line for several hours to hear Obama speak in Kansas City in 2008. After my substantial time investment, if he’d breezed in and talked for 15 minutes before breezing out, I would have felt cheated. He gave a nice long speech that was worth the wait. I was pretty far away, though, because lots and lots of people got there before me. The crowd estimate was 20,000.

  36. 36.

    amk

    June 15, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    can’t tweet a 50 min speech.

    What buncha moronic twits.

    American fourth estate is their fifth columnists.

  37. 37.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    June 15, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: And you might get to pinch her on the butt.

  38. 38.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 15, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    “There are, in fact, only so many notes an ear can hear in the course of an evening.”

  39. 39.

    quannlace

    June 15, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    I think today’s press corps prefers political speeches as Jeff Goldblum’s character describes the length of a People magazine story. “No longer than a person can read during an average crap.”

    Ugh, Obama make brain hurt!

  40. 40.

    amk

    June 15, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    @Scott S.: Much easier to line them up and put the second amendment to some good use finally.

  41. 41.

    quannlace

    June 15, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    I think today’s press corps prefers political speeches as Jeff Goldblum’s character in the ‘Big Chill’ describes the length of a People magazine story. “No longer than a person can read during an average crap.”

    Ugh, Obama make brain hurt!

  42. 42.

    Soo

    June 15, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    I totally agree with you John, but the question is, are they right. Yes, a young adult should be able to/want to sit and listen to a Presidential speech that lasted not even an hour, but if they aren’t, and that’s who Obama’s target public is in the speech, he failed. If Obama wants to inspire young adults to vote he has to speak to them in a way in which they will listen as opposed to how they should listen. It’s a point worth considering.

    That said, I couldn’t bear to sit through W’s shortest of speeches, and I’m no kid.

  43. 43.

    different-church-lady

    June 15, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    They are in full-tilt Heathers mode. No meme will go unshared.

  44. 44.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    June 15, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    @Ruviana: Yes, and if you were born the year that came out, this will be your first presidential election and second national election to vote in.

  45. 45.

    CVS

    June 15, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Even 5 minutes is too long. They would rather he speak in phrases no longer than 140 characters.

  46. 46.

    Davis X. Machina

    June 15, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    @Soo: Young people are no more intrinsically unable, or intrinsically able, to listen to speeches long or short. Audience adaptation is only part of rhetoric, not the entirety of it, and the the audience in the seats in front of you isn’t always the audience you’re addressing.

  47. 47.

    Forum Transmitted Disease

    June 15, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    I fantasize about how great it would be to round up all the pundits and national political reporters and pull a Nitocris on them.

    @Scott S.: That’s pretty good. For poetic justice purposes I’d prefer a sewage lagoon, but, y’know, whatever works and is handy.

  48. 48.

    amk

    June 15, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    @Soo: You mean that he should dumb it down with ‘I am like’ ‘whatever’ ‘dude’ catch-phrases? He is raising the fucking bar. How about fucking meeting it instead of indulging in juvenile stuff ?

  49. 49.

    pseudonymous in nc

    June 15, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    @Gretchen:

    I waited in line for several hours to hear Obama speak in Kansas City in 2012. After my substantial time investment, if he’d breezed in and talked for 15 minutes before breezing out, I would have felt cheated.

    This is an important point. When I saw Obama in 2008, it was an all-day wait, under the sun, with a huge crowd. The campaign hacks arrive on the bus around the same time as the candidate, not the advance party: they’re experiencing a very different event.

  50. 50.

    Scott S.

    June 15, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    @amk: Ah, but a nice slow drowning, preferably filmed so it could be shown to other reporters as a lesson about Why Punditing Is Bad — that would be quite nice. I want to be able to watch it while dining, and shootings are just over too quickly.

    @Soo: I don’t think young people have a problem with Obama’s speeches. The ones whining about them are the middle-aged pundits.

  51. 51.

    kd bart

    June 15, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    If it’s not a poll or surface crap, the MSM is not interested.

  52. 52.

    Linda Featheringill

    June 15, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    It’s hard to imagine that the speech, overgrown as it was with policy details, won the hearts of many independent voters . . .

    I suspect that these “independent voters” are not truly the center of the universe. Sometimes, some things are directed towards others.

    I’m a member of Obama’s base and I found the speech to be very encouraging, as I noted in previous threads.

    In this speech, Obama expressed clearly that certain specific efforts really could make the US better for those who follow us. These efforts involve investment in education, communication, energy, and infrastructure. It is possible to devote the needed work and money to these projects if we can create an amenable political situation.

    So the task for this old war horse is two-fold: try to get more sane and intelligent people into elected offices and then express my support for the projects listed above.

    I can do that. There is no need for me to despair.

    Edited because I’m forgetful. :-)

  53. 53.

    Johnny Gentle (famous crooner)

    June 15, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Give the media a break. 53 minutes is way too long for Mark Halperin to convert it into a listicle.

  54. 54.

    muddy

    June 15, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    There were so many things wrong with the Bush regime, I’m surprised he was able to give an overview in that small amount of time.

  55. 55.

    Chris

    June 15, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Half of the media: “Obama doesn’t have a plan”. Other half of the media: “Obama gives too many policy details”.

  56. 56.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    June 15, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    @Scott S.:

    I don’t think young people have a problem with Obama’s speeches. The ones whining about them are the middle-aged pundits.

    Unfortunately and tragically, guess who has more clout in Washington?

  57. 57.

    amk

    June 15, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    @Scott S.:

    The ones whining about them are the middle-aged pundits.

    Good point. Most of the Obama crowds is yung’uns and many seem rapt.

  58. 58.

    muddy

    June 15, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:

    And it is there that Mr. Obama still has not made his case. Mr. Romney’s entire campaign rests on a foundation of short, utterly false sound bites. The stimulus failed. (Three million employed people beg to differ.) The auto bailout was a mistake. (Another million jobs.) Spending is out of control. (Spending growth is actually lower than under all modern Republican presidents.) He says these kinds of things so often that millions of Americans believe them to be the truth.

    The NYTimes pointing out that Willard Fucking Mitt Romney is a habitual liar is fantastic in my book, even if they beat up Obama a little.

    Too bad they don’t report that the reason millions of Americans believe this stuff is that the media continually spoons this pablum up as a genuine controverst. It’s not like Willard is telling millions of us these lies personally.

  59. 59.

    Marcellus Shale, Public Dick

    June 15, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    the length of the speech was one thing, i was looking for something more. something policy wise that helps in the meantime and ties the obama re-election to congress.

    something substantive and bold. like a second stim and a permanent end to debt ceiling debates. some krug-life.

    i want to see the dems put it all out there.

  60. 60.

    jl

    June 15, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    No, sorry Cole, the press corps is correct, if you see the world they do

    “Debt crisis! You have to make hard choices! No medicare and you work to you drop. I feel your pain. But hard choices. If the rich don’t get all the money things will be worse because Science. I promise to do what Grover says because bipartisan compromise. I am sorry.”

    That takes about a minute.

  61. 61.

    jl

    June 15, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    @Felanius Kootea: Thanks for pointing that out. After reading the Milbank dreck, I didn’t read this link, but should have. If the NYT is getting the guts to call out Romney that is good. I think my previous comment is accurate about what people will hear from 90 percent of the pundits on TV and radio, though.

  62. 62.

    Mnemosyne (iTouch)

    June 15, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    I am convinced the reason the press loved W and McCain so much was that they were comfortably certain that they were smarter than both candidates. But Obama and Hillary Clinton made them feel dumb and made it obvious to them that they were not nearly as smart and savvy as they wanted to believe.

    That’s why they hate Obama, and Gore, and both Clintons. They hate to be reminded that they’re not nearly as smart as they tell themselves they are.

  63. 63.

    muddy

    June 15, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    @Soo:

    I totally agree with you John, but the question is, are they right. Yes, a young adult should be able to/want to sit and listen to a Presidential speech that lasted not even an hour, but if they aren’t, and that’s who Obama’s target public is in the speech, he failed. If Obama wants to inspire young adults to vote he has to speak to them in a way in which they will listen as opposed to how they should listen. It’s a point worth considering.

    I don’t think that’s a valid point at all. The audience was really into it, you could hear them. And it’s something people have gone to voluntarily, they went there wanting to hear him speak. Where do you get the idea that they didn’t listen, or didn’t want to listen, except for the media slant?

    He did not fail. The media failed to report it properly.

  64. 64.

    redshirt

    June 15, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Dear Mr. President. There are too many states today. Please eliminate ten of them.

  65. 65.

    R-Jud

    June 15, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts: Curse you, you beat me to it!

  66. 66.

    artem1s

    June 15, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    It seemed a bit long and repetitive to me on the Rethug failure bit. But considering I don’t need a primer on what the GOP has been up to the last 30 years, that only makes sense. The students at Cuyahoga Community College are mostly low to middle class urban kids who barely remember anything about the Clinton administration outside of the blue dress. Their parents probably mostly voted for Bill to get rid of George I and the horrible economy in a state once considered recession proof.

    I really don’t care what the Village thought, the people who were there and those who get their video feeds via the Obama campaign (that’s where I got mine) got the message. This President isn’t afraid presenting the complexities of an issue even if the media gets all butthurt and whingy. He made it very clear that turnout is everything in this election. And that message got through to people who needed to hear it – those who will be organizing at the grass roots level.

  67. 67.

    metricpenny

    June 15, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    The acronym formed from the title of this post describes our MSM perfectly. DUD.

    dud   /dʌd/[duhd] noun
    1. a device, person, or enterprise that proves to be a failure.

  68. 68.

    Cluttered Mind

    June 15, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    @taylormattd: I am fully in favor of “fixing” the Media. The whole Village, really. The only thing worse than they are is their horrifying offspring (see: Luke Russert and contemporaries)

  69. 69.

    gogol's wife

    June 15, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    @jl:

    The Times is divided against itself. The editorial page tends to be the most pro-Obama, but they also concern-troll him from the left while the rest of the paper concern-trolls him from the right. But there have been some good investigative pieces on Romney (pretty much all of which Politico has complained about for being unfair), so it’s a mixed bag.

  70. 70.

    Culture of Truth

    June 15, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    The press almost universally declared teh Gettysburg address an epic fail.

  71. 71.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 15, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    @Scott S.: Dude. She’s badass. I’d never heard of her. Thanks!

    I find the Villagers useful for one reason – they get it exactly wrong every fucking time.

  72. 72.

    Mino

    June 15, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    FOLKS! He didn’t release the text of the speech ahead of time.

  73. 73.

    FlipYrWhig

    June 15, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    I really, really hate the way very rich, very self-contented media people project their own preferences onto those of “independent voters.” It’s like how on HGTV all the realtors will walk through ugly rooms and say, “The buyers won’t like it.” No, you mean YOU don’t like it. Stop fobbing off your wishes on everyone else. What pundits want is not what the people want.

  74. 74.

    Soo

    June 15, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    @muddy: @63. I’m sorry. I didn’t think we were talking about the people in the audience. I thought we were talking about the people watching it via other means. Of course the audience was in rapt attention. But Obama already has those votes. What I wonder is how many young adults outside of the room actually watched the entire speech, be it on TV or the net. And that information is valuable to know as if they are not watching it, and having them watch it is his goal, then, yes, from a PR perspective, it is a fail.

  75. 75.

    FlipYrWhig

    June 15, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    @artem1s: On Lawrence O’Donnell there was a great exchange between an African American Ohio state senator and Joe Klein about how well Obama was connecting with Ohioans. Klein was doing the usual “Obama message FAIL” thing where you complain that people don’t know what he’s done because he didn’t do it right (as opposed to the media not telling them). The state senator was so impatient with Klein… It was gratifying to see.

  76. 76.

    FlipYrWhig

    June 15, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    @Soo: At this point no one watches whole speeches ever, so, by your standard, every speech ever given is a massive communications failure.

  77. 77.

    slag

    June 15, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Second verse same as the first. This is what they always always always say when Obama gives an intelligent speech. I read mistermix’s summary of the Village take on the speech this AM and didn’t really care enough to go listen (it all seemed so predictable!). But then, after I read Dan Savage’s take:

    The President Gave a Speech Today In Ohio and It Was Really Good and You Should Watch It and That Goes Double If You’re Freaking Out About Polls in North Carolina and Terrible Jobs Reports and Fucking Citizens United and All Those Asshole GOP Billionaires

    wherein Dan kindly posted the video and made it easy for me to listen to the speech, I listened.

    In short, that speech must have been aimed more at people like me than at those in the Village. I liked it a lot; Dan Savage seemed to like it a lot. The Villagers didn’t like it. Second verse same as the first.

  78. 78.

    Culture of Truth

    June 15, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    If there are two things beltway journalists know, it’s complex economic theory, and what average blue collar independents from the heartland are thinking.

  79. 79.

    slag

    June 15, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    @Soo:

    Of course the audience was in rapt attention. But Obama already has those votes.

    He doesn’t just need their votes. He needs their work. And in order to get that, he needs to get them enthusiastic. He needs my work; he needs to get me enthusiastic. He needs Dan Savage’s work; he needs to get Dan Savage enthusiastic. If he keeps this level of clarity and vision in his communication up, he’s on his way to succeeding, as far as I am concerned.

  80. 80.

    FlipYrWhig

    June 15, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Oh, also, in light of John’s OP, it’s kind of funny that the media loves to kvetch about the need for higher academic standards, and then can’t be bothered to sit still for less than an hour without stroking their devices in boredom. And also tweeting.

  81. 81.

    karen marie

    June 15, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    I listened to yesterday’s speech via livestream, and I thought it was swell. He said a lot of things explicitly I’ve been hoping to hear from him. Was it really 53 minutes? It didn’t feel that long to me.

    The “professional” commentary on it, in my opinion, is all wet. As I listened, I kept thinking he can’t possibly lose in November if he sticks to this theme.

  82. 82.

    gelfling545

    June 15, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    @MikeBoyScout:

    Better opinions were written by my Junior High School newspaper.

    Mine too, but then, Tim Russert was the editor.

  83. 83.

    Sly

    June 15, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Fifty minutes is about the same amount of time as your average high school or college lecture

    Most high school teachers don’t lecture for anywhere close to 50 minutes, and for good reason: extended lecture hardly ever works for that target audience.

    A high school teacher who lectures for a full class period is not doing a very good job. The dilemma is, in a class with 25 or so students, you’re basic task is to minimize the extent to which you’re boring the students who like the subject and want to participate, and not confuse the students who don’t like it and are trying to distract themselves with something different. Lecture is a very ineffective means of threading that needle because, very often, you’ll lose both sides of the audience.

    And given the choice between lecturing for 50+ minutes and doing something different, like a seminar, most college professors and students would choose the latter. Long lecture periods with 50 or more students are an expedient, and not a very good one. Professors who like it probably just prefer to imagine themselves as a “sage on a stage,” i.e. they just want to hear themselves talk about a subject they like. College students who prefer extended lectures are likely just looking for a nap time.

    Having said all that, the people who attended that speech wanted to be there. The people who will watch it online or on TV will do so because they want to hear what he has to say. That’s something you don’t generally get with lecture audiences.

  84. 84.

    Mike E

    June 15, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: What sucked about that was how L.O’D. let Klein poop all over that segment without any moderation. I s’pose it’s a “balance” thang…

  85. 85.

    EdTheRed

    June 15, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Now let’s forget our troubles with a big bowl of strawberry ice cream!

  86. 86.

    Jay in Oregon

    June 15, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    @Hunter Gathers:
    You beat me to it.

    How much virtual ink was spilled dissecting any given episode of Lost? How many people spent hours upon hours crunching the numbers to improve their threat generation or DPS/HPS in World of Warcraft?

    But figuring out that taking a smaller percentage of a smaller amount of revenue via taxes does not mean that the government gets more money is too tough? Or that a consumption-based economy contracts when people have to spend less money (or spend more money on fewer things)?

  87. 87.

    FlipYrWhig

    June 15, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    @Mike E: Well, I’m sure Klein and O’Donnell are part of the same social circle, and an African American state-level politician certainly isn’t. But I enjoyed her reaction. Just being able to see the look on her face was a great rejoinder to all the Klein/Alter/Wolffe/Heilmann segments that clog up MSNBC, where you immediately know exactly what they’re going to say.

  88. 88.

    VincentN

    June 15, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    @Soo:

    What I wonder is how many young adults outside of the room actually watched the entire speech, be it on TV or the net. And that information is valuable to know as if they are not watching it, and having them watch it is his goal, then, yes, from a PR perspective, it is a fail.

    If that’s the standard then Obama should have spoken for 5 minutes. Of course the press would have then slammed him for giving a short speech and not going into enough details about his plans for the future.

    Soo, who is the audience that you think Obama is talking to? It’s not the apolitical or non-political because they wouldn’t listen to a speech of any length. The audience would be people who are interested in politics and are therefore interested in details and the people who support Obama and want to be reassured that he has a vision for the future.

    The independent young people with short attention spans you’re concerned about may not listen to the whole speech but they could still get the highlights off of political blogs (or the news if the mass media actually did their jobs).

  89. 89.

    NCSteve

    June 15, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts: Somewhere, Lincoln weeps over the degenerate state of our democracy.

    Douglas probably does too, but he was the 19th Century equivalent of a Sensible Centrist Very Serious Person, so, frankly his metaphorical ghostly tears mean nothing to me.

  90. 90.

    sharl

    June 15, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    You people who are unsatisfied with major media clearly aren’t paying attention to the right sources. Here’s my recent find; he is unavailable for some stretches, but when he’s in, HE’S ON! What follows is some of his typical work, from a June 7 talk in front of some students:

    In shirt sleeves, Obama tells students – some in shirt sleeves, others in Mitt tees – “know before you owe”.
    __
    Obama still in shirt sleeves, rolled up to about an inch and a half below his elbows.
    __
    On second thoughts, maybe an inch and a quarter.
    __
    Obama, still in shirt sleeves and silver-ish tie, still talking.
    __
    BREAKING: Obama still in shirt sleeves. And still talking about importance of affordable education and all that shit.
    __
    Obama, still in shirt sleeves, tells student their voice matters. Riiiiight.
    __
    Obama slaps podium at end of speech, causing left shirt sleeve to drop a quarter of inch lower than it had previously been located.
    __
    Right sleeve remained unmoved because that wasn’t the arm he used to slap the podium. Sleeves at different levels now, left slightly lower.
    __
    Republicans say they’re willing to work out a student loan deal with shirt-sleeved Obama but he won’t engage.
    __
    Obama greeting crowd now, has rolled up left sleeve so now at same level as right sleeve.
    __
    @SnarkKnoller Do you happen to have the statistics of other presidents who’ve slapped podium & how far their sleeves fell???
    __
    @TrumpDog1 I do Trump. eg President George W Bush’s sleeve dropped half an inch on 23 March, 2006 in Clarksville, IA when he podium-slapped.

  91. 91.

    amk

    June 15, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Soo sounds like a troll. Let’s not waste time.

  92. 92.

    Foregone Conclusion

    June 15, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Just about the whole ‘young people have no patience with anything longer than three-and-a-half minutes’ thing, a few facts to ponder:

    Some of the most popular TV series among the 18-35 age bracket in the past decade have been things which require extended concentration (e.g. Game of Thrones, The Wire).

    Also, compared to the 1960s, today’s songs – even pop – is looong. Consider the fact that very few Beatles’ songs were past the three minute mark before Sgt. Pepper, and compare to the length of the average pop song today. You might argue that the content is crap, but they’re undoubtedly longer.

    And, of course, young people are quite happy to sit down for perhaps two and a half hours to watch a film.

    So, perhaps it’s not the content which is the problem, it’s the message? But then again, Obama didn’t seem to have a problem attracting under-30s in 2008.

    If people want to listen, they aren’t put off by length (well, certainly not something under an hour).

  93. 93.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    June 15, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    “when there were barbie dolls marketed to girls, and they came with a pull string that when you pulled on it the doll would issue some statement. One of the statements was “Math class is tough!,” and people were rightly pissed off. ”

    My girl friend’s dad worked on them for Matel. The prototypes would say things like “Ohh, your’ hands are cold!” “Hi there big spender”

  94. 94.

    jenn

    June 15, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    @Davis X. Machina: Seriously?! I am so looking for that!

  95. 95.

    Vince

    June 15, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    @taylormattd: By fixed you mean spayed and neutered, right?

  96. 96.

    Turgidson

    June 15, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    It’s hard to imagine that the speech, overgrown as it was with policy details,

    Jesus, the idiots can’t even decide WHY they hated Obama’s speech. I’ve read in several other places that it had no new ideas and was just a rehash of other speeches.

    But the axiom seems to be “if Obama did something, it must have suxored!!!”

    Bring on the meteor.

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