I’m having a really hard time writing about Mitt Romney, because this really is a new paradigm for me. How do you write about someone when every word that falls out of their mouth is a lie? With Bush and Palin, they were often wrong about things just because they were morons. With McCain, he was just angry and insane. But with Romney, every single thing he says is just a damned lie.
How do you approach near constant deceit like this?
Comrade Javamanphil
Usually with a straitjacket.
Spaghetti Lee
How Do You Approach Him?
Ten foot pole?
Calling him a liar works for me. If you want more variation, you can get Edroso or the Rude Pundit to teach you how to cuss like a champion.
Violet
I think writing “Mitt Romney” and “lies” and “is a liar” in as many ways you can is the proper way to talk about him.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It took Bush six years to create a disaster. I think it won’t even take Mittens two.
xian
you box him into a corner, as Obama just did, so that no matter which lie he spouts, it costs him.
feebog
John;
You have to sneak up on him. Be very, very quiet, those silly wabbits have big ears.
liberal
It’s hard, since all politicians lie.
It’s completely true that Romney appears to lie (and flip-flop) far more than any other politician in recent memory. But it’s hard to do electioneering with it, since “they all lie, but Romney is in a class by himself” is a pretty good reason not to vote for him, but isn’t marketable.
Violet
You could ride up on your $77,000-tax-deduction horse.
liberal
@xian:
That’s probably the best strategy for Obama to pursue. Problem is that it’s possible that Romney still gains on net.
valdemar
Ask yourself how he’ll perform in a debate with Obama? Very badly, I assume…
Hill Dweller
I’ve known Willard is a craven, shameless man for a long time, but I’m also starting to believe his wife is every bit as bad as her husband.
RyanayR
OK, my personal belief is that much of what came out of Bush’s mouth, and all out of Palin’s mouth was bullshit. Bullshit as in the philosophical concept. They didn’t care about the truth, or knowing the truth; they just cared about saying something, anything that benefited them. That is different than Romney in the sense that he may actually know what the truth is, but chooses to lie or conceal it to suit his given necessity. I actually find pure bullshitters scarier/worse, because they don’t even know the difference between the truth or lies they are choosing to disseminate because it is irrelevant to them. So my reaction to Romney is a little different than yours. Maybe you are reacting to the cognitive dissonance that most of us would experience being Romney, and that makes one’s head hurt.
quannlace
How do you write about a shifting blob of jelly?
******
The other day, on Thom Hartmann’s radio show, they were debating whether Romney’s a sociopath. I think that’s bit much. For me, he’s just the ultimate empty suit.
Cromagnon
But at least he isn’t an evil war-criminal – who murders innocent men, women, and children by remote control – like the current occupant of the White House does. At least according to the Greenwaldites.
Once RMoney is elected, we will have peace on earth and prosperity for all.
So whats a little lying compared to crimes against humanity?
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
I’m curious to see what the impact of Schieffer’s softball questions yesterday will have (if any). Will other journalists start actually asking questions? Or will they circle the proverbial wagons around their boy, Mitt?
That “LIAR” label seriously needs to stick in the minds of ordinary people.
Given the Rove way of doing things, I expect tons of memes impinging upon Obama’s “honesty” to be unleashed throughout the week.
Roger Moore
I think the “every word that falls out of their mouth is a lie” is a pretty good start. It’s important just to get the words “lie”, “liar”, “lying”, and the like into the discussion, especially if we can convince the media to start using them. Once they get over the hurdle of calling a lie a lie, I think they’ll do OK; we just have to help them get there.
David
He thinks he’s projecting confidence but it comes across as arrogance.
blondie
How can he possibly be polling so closely with Obama? I really don’t understand.
flukebucket
Rmoney drew up the blueprint for Obamacare and later signed on to Voucher Care.
Obviously he just does not give a shit one way or the other.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@valdemar:
Exactly why I don’t expect to see nearly as many debates as we did in 2004 or 2008.
The Romney camp will do the bare minimum number of debates needed to avoid looking like a wuss… but no more.
Current debate schedule is here.
mikefromArlington
Start tracking and counting his lies and hope it becomes the msm narrative
Hill Dweller
@quannlace: Obviously no one in the Obama campaign will call him a sociopath publicly, but I don’t think it is that far-fetched. At the very least Willard is a pathological liar.
Jager
Mitt’s entire career as a “businessman” was spent as a venture capitalist. If you need financing from a VC you agree with whatever they say. Your only option is to walk away from the discussion. No one Romney ever did “business” with disagreed with him (or anybody at Bain) or called him on his bullshit.
boss bitch
Its probably best to hit him on his evasiveness. Several times now he has said he won’t give details or answer until he’s elected. Who the fuck says that? and why is he getting away with it? What average person could get away with those kinds of answers in real life?
kindness
Mitt is so outrageously plastic and not real I can’t believe we even need to have this discussion. Honestly, I think this very thing every day during my commute listening to NPR fluff Mitt like there will be no tomorrow.
NPR sux.
boss bitch
@mikefromArlington:
Steve Benen at Maddow Blog does that. Its taken off within a certain circle but the MSM isn’t pushing it. I think Steve is up to volume 2,300. I exaggerate but only a little bit.
Shinobi
This is hard because “every single thing he says is just a damned lie.” is pretty much verbatim something I”ve heard republicans say about Clinton and Obama.
Romney certainly has enough horse manure to be completely full of it.
But pointing out that Romney is a Liar and a Corporate Shill isn’t very persuasive. Just like it isn’t persuasive when someone tells me that Obama is a socialist.
And you can say that there is a difference there, that Obama demonstrably isn’t a socialist. But Obama isn’t a socialist to ME, in my reality.
The problem is that the current republican party have created their own reality in which everything Obama has ever done is the worst thing ever for America. Right now anyone with lighter skin could win against him. (So at least John Boehner’s out.)
Shinobi
@boss bitch: This would be a great one for Democrats to harp on. One of the republican talking points I’ve heard quite a few times is that quote of Nancy Pelosi’s “We have to pass it to see whats in it.” They find this outrageous. Maybe “We have to elect him to see what he’ll do” might be similarly outrageous?
Hill Dweller
@mikefromArlington: Steve Benen has been chronicling Mitt’s mendacity for months at Maddow’s blog. Some other high profile bloggers like Greg Sargent have also been hammering both Willard’s lies and the media unwillingness to point it out, but it has taken hold.
The media at large wants no part of it. They’re bought and paid for.
Snarki, child of Loki
He’s a ringer: a crypto-democrat planted in the GOP. Romnycare is the proof.
jonas
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
Gosh, and, as we all know, without a teleprompter, Obama apparently just starts drooling and spouting jibberish. You’ve got to be a pretty big wuss to run away from that…
Violet
@Roger Moore:
If comedians to start using them in relation to Romney, especially someone like Jay Leno, the ultimate pandering insider, then the connection will be sealed.
giltay
It’s easy. You start with, “Gee, a politician that lies? Really?” Then it’s on to the both-sides-do-it shuffle and you know the rest. Then you know you’re a cool kid who’s above the fray.
MattF
Well, also ‘coward’, ‘sanctimonious prick,’ ‘plutocrat,’ ‘soulless quasi-human.’ It all works and provides some variety, compared to ‘liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, etc.’, true as that may be.
Xantar
I’m starting to think that the Romney camp is actually using this to their advantage to manipulate the media. They spew so much bullshit that it’s impossible to fact check it all or place it all in its proper context. So the court stenographers throw up their hands and simply repeat what they’re told. Plus both sides do it.
Roger Moore
@Jager:
Actually not. A small part of his career was in venture capital, but more of it was in private equity. That’s an important difference. Venture capital is about funding startups to help get them on their feet and profitable. Private equity is about buying established companies and trying to figure out how to squeeze more out of them. In Romney’s case, that usually involved sucking them dry and trying to convince some sucker that their dessicated husk was still a viable company.
Sentient Puddle
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
If that schedule holds (and there’s no reason to think it won’t), then there would be exactly as many debates as there were in 2004 and 2008. I mean shit, when was the last time the schedule wasn’t three debates with the VP picks going at it between the first and second debate?
Chris
@blondie:
Anyone with an R after his name starts out with a solid lock on 40% of the popular vote (more like 45% these days). Toss in the fact that the middle ground is chock-full of people who often don’t follow politics closely, really don’t know shit and are tremendously susceptible to bullshit.
cathyx
The way to write about Romney is to point out the lies. Every single one of them.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@jonas:
Heh.
I intend to watch every debate, if only for the pleasure of watching Obama cooly, methodically wipe the floor with Romney (who has never been a very skilled debater— I’ve been watching him since the 1994 run for Kennedy’s Senate seat). The only real risk to Obama is an MSM chorus of he was so MEAN to Romney! All those facts! Mean Angry Black Man! Scary!. the next morning.
Sadly, the debates aren’t as important as I wish they were. I remember enjoying Kerry rhetorically slapping GWB around in 2004, but it didn’t seem to do much real good in terms of election results.
Omnes Omnibus
He would prefer that you approach him, if you must, on bended knee.
Chris
@boss bitch:
Yes, and keep hitting him on the flip-flops. On abortion, on gay rights, on Romneycare, on just about everything. It works a lot better than “liar,” IMO. Politicians are expected to lie, but the “flip-flopper” label makes them look like they’re weak and can’t make up their minds.
SBJules
@Hill Dweller:
Yes, I think Mrs. Dressage is as bad. I’m a former Mormon & I need to know if he is going to be asked the JFK/Pope question…will he follow church doctrine rather than what is best for the country? I believe I know what he would do and that’s plane scary.
Waldo
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: Careful what you wish for. I thought debates would seal the deal for Gore in 2000. If anything, they hurt him more than they helped — probably because Bush surpassed some very low expectations.
Same could happen again if Romney appears half as human as, say, the robot from Lost in Space.
MoZeu
He’s a lot like Reagan in that regard, also the phony, 1950’s folksiness and the tendency to start every sentence with a gratingly boyish and “sincere,” “Well . . . ”
I’d say something trite like that he doesn’t have any of Reagan’s appeal, except that I never actually understood Reagan’s appeal. But the two of the are very similar in their lying styles.
As I recall, no one was ever able to make any headway in exposing Reagan. Go figure.
giltay
@Omnes Omnibus: I believe he only permits that if you’re worth morth than $1,000,000. Otherwise, you can’t really exist.
Roger Moore
@Shinobi:
Let them. They need more than just the true believers to win the election. This is about convincing the squishy middle. I honestly think they’re going to be susceptible to the change that Mitt is completely unbelievable about anything. An add with video of him taking two incompatible stances on an issue, especially when one of them includes him denying that he ever took one of those stances, is the right place to start.
wvng
I agree John. I find him impossible to listen to for more than a minute or two – and I can listen to Gingrich for much longer. The lies are so very obvious, and so very endless, and yet the media largely just lets them flow without push back. And when they do occasionally push back, he simply continues with the lie.
Chris
@SBJules:
Do you think he honestly cares about his church’s doctrine? I mean, I’ve never given much thought to Romney’s religion except in terms of his political implications, because he really doesn’t strike me as the kind of person who stays awake at night wondering what God wants him to do one way or another. I worried about Huckabee’s religion, Santorum’s too, but never Romney’s. (Or Gingrich’s for that matter).
Violet
@MoZeu:
Reagan was an actor and he looked sincere when he talked. He’d learned how to be believable.
Romney’s eyes don’t match what the rest of his face is doing. He looks like he’s lying, which he probably is. But he can’t hide it. It’s really noticeable during debates or interviews — anything that’s not a prepared speech. It’s kind of subtle stuff, sort of body language stuff, but people pick up on that sort of thing a lot more than they’re aware they do. I think it’s going to tank him in the debates. He’ll come across as untrustworthy.
Roger Moore
@Chris:
Caving on his decision to have Richard Grenell as his foreign policy and national security spokesman might be a good one to use. It’s a case of him very publicly giving in to the worst, nastiest voices of religious intolerance. So he’s both weak and in the pockets of the Talibangelicals.
MattF
Semi-OT: An NYT Op-Ed entitled “I’m a Mormon, not a Christian,” that steps right into it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/opinion/im-a-mormon-not-a-christian.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
John
Romney is a coward.
Liars lie because they are afraid. They are afraid of your reaction to hearing the bald truth. So, you avoid the problem by misleading and spreading disinformation.
Look at Romney and beyond immense privilege, you will find a coward. A liar might be tolerated as “he’s a SOB, but he’s our SOB,” but a coward is anathema to everybody.
Spread the meme.
Chris
@Roger Moore:
And better yet, it’s on gay rights, an issue where the public is definitely on our side. Yeah, I like it.
On a related note, I wonder who Romney will pick to be his foreign policy team. Hopefully he won’t be mad enough to bring back Cheney or Rumsfeld, but it’ll probably be a bunch of ex-Bushies, just not quite as visible ones.
NotMax
Hoping for a Joseph Welch (“Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”) moment.
Preferably after Labor Day, when (a) much more of the electorate is actually paying attention and (b) the weaving of such a ponderous and weighty fabric of falsity, culminating in his convention coronation speech, is inextricably, irrefutably, undismissably official candidate Romney’s property.
JGabriel
__
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quannlace:
Romney has made a quarter billion dollars not caring whether the people who work for the companies he raids go hungry or die. At every turn he tells people whatever he thinks will benefit himself, truth be damned.
I think sociopath fits.
.
redshirt
The truth no longer matters. We’re well through the looking glass here sheeple!
El Cid
It didn’t seem to hurt Paul Ryan too much.
Tripod
I understand Reagan’s appeal – he’s no Reagan. I don’t think he has a hope in hell. They’ll bounce along within a couple of polling points either way until Labor Day and then it’s clobberin’ time.
NotMax
@Chris
Mitt Romney’s Neocon War Cabinet
Why Colin Powell Bashed Mitt Romney’s Foreign-Policy Advisers
Brachiator
@SBJules:
No one is going to ask the question because it would be impolite.
Also, few know anything about Mormon doctrine, and even fewer care. As long as Mitt says stuff about abortion that satisfies fundamentalist, he will be OK with most conservatives.
Roger Moore
@giltay:
FTFY.
Valdivia
@NotMax:
well Romney just came out saying he would go to war with Iran without asking Congress for permission, a la Cheney. So he is definitely a totally neo-con. Larison has a good post on that
The Other Bob
@Brachiator:
Every other Presidential contender since Clinton has been asked the Boxer or Briefs question. I do not see why he cannot be asked the Boxer/Briefs/Magic underwear question.
To answers John’s topic: It’s hard to rip on Mitt’s policies without stating which version of his position you are refering, which requires the extra effort to state each of his positions on a given issue and then specify the version we hate the most.
catclub
Somebody mentioned Newt. Romney and Newt have the interesting trait of being anti-campaigners. The more people see them, the less they like them. Just ask his opponents from either 2008 or 2012 GOP primaries. They hate him. I think this will wear on the populace of the three states where the two guys will be campaigning this year. Ohio, Virginia, PA, and maybe Michigan. Anywhere else? Nevada? Wisconsin? NC?
Ok, I got up to 7. Oops, Florida.
Everybody else can watch.
Nutella
If you talk about lying you’ll get ‘both sides do it.’ I’d say hammering on one particular kind of lie is the thing to do: His claim that he doesn’t have specific plans for immigration and tax policies but will develop them in office.
He does have plans, secret plans, that he keeps secret because they are so shameful and disgusting. Just like his secret tax returns are shameful and disgusting.
This can be contrasted with Obama’s plans and tax returns which have been disclosed.
I think this is the kind of thing that will get some attention from the undecideds.
waynski
@John: I agree. Coward is the way to go. It would be nice if the MSM actually did their jobs and pointed out Romney’s lies on a daily basis, every night at the top of the newscast, but if they haven’t done it by now, they’re simply not going to en masse. Trying to make the argument that Willard’s the most remarkable liar of possibly anyone who has ever run for the presidency won’t work unless the MSM backs you up on it with the ferocity that they went after Clinton with. So I vote for coward.
Valdivia
I will add something related to Greg Sargent’s point in the piece John linked: hard to pin Romney down since he refuses to say anything concrete about what he intends to do. The fact the media simply repeats his anti Obama screeds without ever questioning what he is offering (nothing!) is the big issue.
catclub
@NotMax: This is the really crazy thing about crazy people. They want Cheney to be his VEEP. No understanding that when GWBush had a 23% approval, Cheney had 11%. Gob-smacked, I am.
burnspbesq
@Cromagnon:
Only because he hasn’t had his turn yet.
Roger Moore
@Valdivia:
I wonder when Gonzalez and Yoo will question the Constitutionality of that stance the same way they’re so eager to challenge Obama’s decision on immigration enforcement. I’m guessing about a week of Sundays after the Twelfth of Never.
catclub
@Nutella: Yes. Tax returns and Swiss/Cayman Islands Bank accounts. Dwell on those.
The number of people who understand why one would need a Swiss bank account just about fill in a phone booth.
Valdivia
@Roger Moore:
heh. that sounds about right. because going to war by yourself is totally constitutional, Unitary Executive is for wars.
jl
I say, BJ blog to the rescue!
Whenever a Romney lie hits the corporate media, or the intertubes on the ‘puter, put up a front page post that prints the lie, calling it a lie, with some brief commentary that gives the truth with a reference.
There will be several of these a week, so might be too much for front posters (even kay, probably), but I am sure commenters will supply lots of material.
That will mean Cole will have to read the comments, so he won’t be able to sit back reveling in the vast piles of cash this blog that pays for itself brings in, at least until after November (sad day for Cole).
I suggest a pic of Tunch at his most severe and judgmental over each post.
As a tag I suggest ‘Just a Mittle White Lie’
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@catclub:
That $77,000 deduction for “losses” on the dressage horse is right up there with McCain’s umpteen houses in terms of tone-deafness.
It doesn’t seem to be getting much coverage at the moment, however.
...now I try to be amused
@John:
Bingo. People might vote for Romney, but they’d actually elect whoever Romney is afraid of at the moment.
I’d like to hear more of this line of attack: If Romney didn’t lay you off, you probably know someone he laid off.
Roger Moore
@Nutella:
This approach would go well with a “Mitt the Coward” campaign strategy. Mitt is such a coward, he’s afraid to tell you what he’s planning to do once he’s in office. He’ll cave to any special interest that threatens him, just like he did with Richard Grenell. If he can’t back his own foreign policy adviser against the American Family Association, how will he be able to stand up to Russia, China, and Iran?
wrb
I thought Romney Spokesperson George Tierney Jr. of Greenville SC defined his candidate perfectly adequately.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
Not at all. Lots of people understand why you want a Swiss bank account: to cheat on your taxes. They may be wrong- I don’t know, maybe there are other good reasons for Romney to have one- but that common understanding puts him on the defensive. You just have to talk about him having millions of dollars in a Swiss account and refusing to release his tax returns, and it’s up to him to explain how this is all perfectly reasonable and above board.
PurpleGirl
@boss bitch: Remember: Nixon had his secret plan to get us out of Vietnam and it got him elected.
negative 1
As a liar until he wants to clarify something. Every time he opens his mouth just point out where he lied in a different way the time before it. It’s not spin, it’s true – the man has never had a position he hasn’t contradicted. Call him what he is — a bold-faced liar.
japa21
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
I think they key moment was during (I think) the second debate. Kerry had hit Bush hard on the quote about not caring much about OBL and Bush had responded that Kerry’s charge was an exagerration. Later, in respone to a question about whether or not sexual orientation was an innate trait, Kerry pointed out that the important thing is that gays and lesbians be loved by there families and mentioned that the father of a lesbian was there and he was sure Dick Cheney (he didn’t use the name) loved his daughter. (Also, note this same thing ahd come up during the Cheney-Edwards debate and nobody raised an eyebrow and Cheney thanked Edwards for his comment.)
Immediately after the debate, Bush’s response denying the OBL quote was the big news, and his actual quote was being replayed. It looked pretty bad for Bush at that time.
However, by the next morning all the media was talking about how horible it was that Kerry brought up that Cheney’s daughter was gay, as if he had outed her. This went on for several days. Polls immediately after the debate showed the public thinking Kerry had won. 3 days later polls showed Bush had won.
It is all about what is reported and how.
wrb
Romney has a secret plan that will rescue the economy but he can’t talk about it because of the crazy Tea Partiers. (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more)
Lots of people believe this.
It sucks but it is true.
rikyrah
you should join the club in pointing out his lies. I believe folks should join in this public service to the country.
Steve Benen should be up for a medal of honor.
Jager
@Roger Moore: My error, but it works the same. Local management does what they want or gets kicked to the curb…no discussion, no opposition and by the way the fees get paid first.
ChrisNYC
I think the anti campaign should be that he’s deceitful and highhanded, not a coward. I think he is hugely risk averse but the driving force is a real fuck off attitude toward voters.
Watching him on the Sunday show yesterday, pissed me off that he takes this stance of “you’ll know when I decide to tell you.” Combine that with the nasty air wars that he was not willing to do in person in the primaries, the petulant refusal to talk about anything he deems unimportant (like immigration!), and the ridiculous overreliance on surrogates so that he can disclaim when things get hot.
He’s a rich flim flam artist who gets real testy real quick when he’s challenged.
Steve in DC
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
Well horses = cowboys = Texas and the south west. Granted dancing horses for rich people have nothing in common with ranches and the west, but tarring people for liking animals rarely works out well. Maybe if he turned the horse into glue or kibble?
Next getting tax breaks wherever you can is damn near a conservative religion. Instead of “Romney is skimping out on his taxes like a cheap skate” it might morph into “Romney is preventing that damn federal government from taking his money”.
Finally I wonder how many people in the media with their expensive habits ride horses, or bought their daughter a pony or riding lessons. It’s kinda a thing you do. I’m fairly sure Romney could shoot the shit on horse riding with a large part of the media that’s tasked to keep track of the truth.
As for his lies, sure they are blatant and often nonsensical, but it makes sense. Romney’s running this campaign like a business consultant. I’m not sure how much experience people have with consultants but they basically come in and tell you “everything is fucked up and if you don’t unfuck it all now armageddon will happen, so put me in charge right fast”. He’s basically making a consultants pitch with a corporate add campaign, which is why he seems so crazy.
GxB
@JGabriel:
This, and taking in the fact that >40% of the voting population WILL vote for him regardless leads me to think there is a huge sociopath population in this country. Yeah, a good portion will vote R just cuz all things D are “Just wrong” in their mind (oldskool GOPers, unthinking, rigid minded oafs) but a lot of the hard core cons I’ve had to deal with seem to be Social Darwinists – ironic seeing as evolution is impossible to many of these same people.
It’s very hard to do, but when you meet a new winger try asking neutral or borderline sympathetic questions to what they really believe. The stuff that comes out of their mouth will shock you. I got a few more grey hairs out of the deal, but maybe just maybe, hearing their rot put into their own words can raise that cognitive dissonance level a little closer to the conscious stage.
Ben Cisco
Every progressive posting about RMoney should include a picture of him with his pants engulfed in flames like that Progressive Insurance ad. Just drive the point home, with a 12lb. sledgehammer and a fucking railroad spike if need be.
It’s an extremely simplistic point, but apparently we’re dealing with lifeforms who are, well, somewhat lacking in cognitive functions. Them, and the damned FerengiMedia™.
Jebediah
@boss bitch:
Maybe that could be worked into an ad of some kind – maybe Average Joe telling his or her boss “I won’t tell you what I would do as a supervisor until AFTER you give me the promotion” and then maybe a montage of some of the times Mitt has said that. That, I think, is really the only way to get it “out there” since the media seems so allergic to simply saying “Lying Liar Lied Again Today; Film at Eleven.”
rikyrah
@quannlace:
I disagree. I totally believe he’s a sociopath.
NCSteve
Here’s what I do:
a) Point out that Romney is the inevitable product of a corrupt, degenerate news media that is no longer capable of even perceiving the possibility that calling politicians out for lying is the reason we gave their business, unique among private business enterprises, special Constitutional sanction and protection.
b) Lots of Tommy Flanagan references.
catclub
@Roger Moore: Agreed.
The word I was looking for was sympathize. Those people who have enough money and such a deep emotional attachment to it that it must be protected, in Swiss Bank accounts, from the depredations of the IRS. They would sympathize with having swiss bank accounts.
Everybody else would understand.
rikyrah
Monday, June 18, 2012
Short And Sweet: Romney’s Two Faces Shine
Posted by Bon Tindle
Romney refuses to actually go on record to say he’d overturn Obama’s immigration order, but sits in the corner sniping and taking swipes at it. What bravado!
This man is a coward, a two-faced chickenshit who will say what it takes to satisfy his short-term need. He doesn’t give a damn about anything but his legacy, and he’s too blind and stupid to see his legacy will be that of a lame duck who was blindsided by his own ignorance.
I’m starting to think he has no convictions. No principles allow you to sell them out for your own happiness, that’s why they are principles. If you don’t honor them when it matters, you’re just… well, you’re Mitt Romney. Even Mitt doesn’t want to be Mitt. He wants to be Obama, but without the pesky responsibility of making the hard choices and taking responsibility for them.
http://zandarvts.blogspot.com/2012/06/short-and-sweet-romneys-two-faces-shine.html
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Steve in DC:
I don’t think much of the “Rich Westerners With Horses Who Deduct Twice the Median Worker’s Salary for a Year” demographic was really going to vote for Obama anyway.
As for the rest of us? Pretty damning.
With the business consultant framing, I can buy that. It would explain his refusal to answer direct policy questions with any clarity– since when does any Consultant give away his ideas for free?
Allan
Follow the money.
The Dangerman
Tie Bush, like an anchor, around his neck. He will twist himself into pretzels to not use that name…
gene108
With compassion and pity John Cole. That’s how you approach Mitt Romney.
He’s not lying all the damn time because he wants to, it’s because he has to, in order to satisfy the purity trolls that control the Republican Party.
He can’t run on his record as governor, because his biggest accomplishment – a first in the nation public/private partnership to extend medical insurance coverage to all the people in MA – now must be repealed at the Federal level and the ante-HCR status quo of no hope for the uninsured and those with preexisting conditions returned to immediately.
He can’t run as a captain of industry, because what he did is really symptomatic of what’s wiped out the middle class over the last 30 years, though he will try to run on this because he can’t at all – even with a 1,000 foot pole – touch his record as governor as being a positive for him among the Republicans.
He can’t tell the truth about his stance on gay marriage, abortion and other social issues, which he was fairly liberal on, while governor, because there’s no way in hell he’d have gotten out to of the primaries, if he stood his ground.
He’s not lying because he’s a bad person. He’s lying because the insane purity trolls of the Republican Party demand a candidate be what they imagine Ronald Reagan was and reality be damned.
It’s not his fault. In a reality based Republican Party, he’d be a great candidate.
He solved a pressing problem, without having government take over the private sector and he’s a successful businessman, committed husband and therefore can bridge the fears of government take over of industry, Obama caused, while solving the everyday problems facing most Americans.
When your voters abandon reality based decision making, there’s not much a candidate can do but to also abandon reality based campaigning and project whatever he feels needs to be said, in order to win.
Elie
@Brachiator:
I disagree. The question will be asked and the answer will be very interesting and important. You are right that most people don’t know enough about Mormonism to question. That will not stay the case.
patrick II
There was a scene in the 1967 movie “A Guide for the Married Man” in which Joey Bishop in which Joey’s wife walks in on Joey in bed with another woman. Joey denies the woman is there, “what woman?”, and keeps denying as the woman gets out of bed puts on her clothes and leaves with the wife watching the whole time saying “that woman”, “that woman right there”. Joey continues denying her existence, and in the next minute the woman is gone and the wife is left in confusion and doubting what she had seen with her own eyes in the face of Joey’s continued calm assurance that there is now and never was another woman.
The chapter name of that lesson of “Advice for the Married Man was “deny, deny, deny”, which should be the named theme of the Romney campaign.
shortstop
One of my favorite Harry S Truman quotes: “Richard Nixon is a no good, lying bastard. He can lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, and if he ever caught himself telling the truth, he’d lie just to keep his hand in.”
Works to describe Mitt. It’s pithy, funny and reminds everyone that Mitt and Dick are of the same tribe.
gene108
Also, too it’s not a lie if you believe it’s true.
The Republican Party, Mr. Romney has to appeal to believes Evolution to be a suspect scientific theory, has serious doubts about President Obama being born in the USA, and host of other reality bending attitudes that Mr. Romney must placate, in order to stand a chance of winning.
In short, I feel sorry for Republican Presidential candidates, because all of them have to lie all the time, because their voters have replaced reality based decision making, with the view that as long as something has a certain truthiness to it, it must be true.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us? (formerly MarkJ)
Just play the clip from the Wolf Blitzer hosted GOP primary debate where he lied about his own first name. I know politicians lie, but he’s the first to lie about his own first name.
That would be my first campaign commercial – just play a clip of him saying his first name is Mitt. Then tell everyone it’s Willard. If a guy won’t even tell you the truth about his own first name how do you trust him on anything else?
FlipYrWhig
@gene108: I don’t see what evidence there is that Romney wasn’t lying about his moderate views when he wanted to get elected in Massachusetts. I doubt that he’s _really_, underneath it all, a moderate. I don’t think there’s anything underneath it all, anything real that’s there inside.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@japa21:
That’s pretty much how I remember things transpiring against Kerry, too. And someone else has already pointed out the post-debate tarring that Gore got for his trouble (OMG! He SIGHED!).
I can only guess, but IMO the Angry/Mean card will be their tack against BHO. Driven (surprise, surprise!) by race.
Back in 2010, when Gov. Deval Patrick was running for re-election against former HMO CEO Charlie Baker, Baker did everything he could in their debates (short of slapping him in the face with a white glove while chanting the N-word) in an apparent attempt to make Patrick lose his cool. He came close once or twice (no man likes to be falsely accused of lying), but to his infinite credit, he didn’t. I know that I certainly wouldn’t have kept such a calm tone, the way Baker was essentially screaming.
I remember the parallels between Patrick in 2006 and Obama in 2008: The GOP seems to like using Gov Patrick as a test case for potential strategies against Obama.
I expect that Romney’s debate coaches are studying those debates as we speak.
Another Bob
Oh John, you’re just stuck in your obsolete reality-based paradigms. If you were an omnipotent, accountability-free Republican, it’s not a lie, it’s simply how you create your own reality.
pragmatism
make a big deal if he ever tells the truth.
Steve in DC
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
Yeah that’s the point with it. His entire approach to everything is the slick consultant “here are your problems, now you need to hire me to fix them” type of nonsense. Now it’s been my personal experience that consultants are very good at identifying “problems” and “inefficiencies”, but often accomplish little more than wreaking havoc. They’ll fix things long enough to get their check and get out the door and if the thing burns down oh fucking well, guess you need another consultant.
As for his “lies” it’s an advertising campaign, just like business! Ad campaigns are pure bullshit, you just say whatever you think people want to hear to get them to buy the product, in this case Romney.
I’m sure at some point he’ll start putting out powerpoint presentations and ranting about TPS reports.
Kane
All of Romney’s constant lies and repeated misinformation. All of the Republican obstruction. All of the Republican attempts to sabotage the economy.
And what price have they paid? Like the Republican obstruction, much of the MSM has accepted Romney’s lies so much so that it has become the new normal and not a story worth reporting.
fuzed
Batman villain, Two Face? pre and post run Mitt? A transfer in from the Evil Universe?
or what gene108 said, a holographic construct of the right wing reality.
Kane
@gene108:
Even if this were true, then how does one explain his constant lying when he ran for the senate or when he ran for governor or his 2008 run for the presidency? He was lying long before the purity trolls were in control of the Republican party.
Steve in DC
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us? (formerly MarkJ):
The name thing wasn’t that bad. People get used to their nick names so much, that seemed more like a flub. Hell my brother still says his first name isn’t what it is because he’s being using the same nickname for the past 40+ years of his life.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
Heh. Speaking of debates… Sen. Kerry to serve as surrogate practice Rombot for Obama’s debate prep.
boss bitch
@Jebediah:
Great minds think alike, eh? I had the same type of ad in mind. You wouldn’t hire/marry someone who says they will reveal their true selves AFTER you’ve made such a huge committment. Why do the same when voting for the POTUS?
Valdivia
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
I think it’s a good choice. BTW in the Bush-Kerry debates the media decided what mattered. In the Obama-McCain ones the insta-reaction thingies always told us Obama won so no matter how the Village spun the debates there was real world reaction that totally contradicted them on the air for all to see. It made a difference.
Roger Moore
@Steve in DC:
My experience is that there are three categories of consultants:
1) Ones who have genuine expertise that their clients lack. They’re confident enough to be helpful, because they know they’ll be able to keep finding work. Rare.
2) Flim-flam artists. Their recommendations are pretty much like a Mad Lib. They’re going to give essentially the same advice to everyone, but with just enough client-specific details to make it look as if they’ve studied the issue. Very common.
3) Idea launderers. Plans that nobody would trust coming from the idiot CEO will sound better coming from the mouth of an expensive consultant. Pretends to study the issue, may make some minor tweaks to the plan, but pretty much regurgitates what management wanted to do in the first place. Very common.
shortstop
@Steve in DC: Mitt is not his nickname. It’s his middle name. It went down like this:
“I’m Wolf Blitzer and yes, that’s my real name.”
“I’m Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that’s also my first name.”
You’re not very good at all this concern, Steve, and you never seem to get any better.
Heliopause
Good, there are already enough lib bloggers writing “Mitt Romney is a liar” 20 times a day and I’m frankly weary of it. He’s not going to propose anything interesting between now and November and any gaffes he might make will be in the out-of-touch-rich-guy vein we’re already familiar with. His strategy is to be deliberately boring and slippery, so write about House or Senate races or something else.
gvg
I just want to say that in 2008 when McCain was winning, I heard a LOT of conservatives make a big deal about Romney changing his views all the time and I thought they made too big a deal out of it and that it was normal for people confronted with years more experience and updated facts to change their opinion. I really didn’t pay enough attention to Romney then. At that time my experience led me to believe that on line conservatives tended to think almost everyone was wishy washy. Did Romney get worse or was he this……obvious all along?
I used to think he was just a business guy, kind of moderate, not ideal, better than some.
Violet
@Steve in DC:
Remember the 2004 primaries where someone did an ad based on the movie “Election” with Hillary as Tracy Flick? Someone needs to do that with Romney and “Office Space” or another film that would fit his personality. What film is out there with a lying consultant that destroys company after company?
Steve in DC
@shortstop:
Something being your middle name doesn’t preclude it from being your nickname. People use an abbreviation of my last name all the time in person. I’m more likely to respond to that in public than I am to my first name. My brothers nickname is a play off his first and middle name, yet I’ve never heard anybody use anything but and he signs all his papers with it even though it’s not his legal name.
You’re slicing hairs here. It’s an easy thing to flub and mix up, especially off the cuff. It just seems petty to make a huge deal about it.
@Roger Moore:
That’s been mine as well. The second type is the most common. And usually went to the same school as management or ran into one of them at some seminar and gave them a card. Next thing you know there is a huge meeting about time management and department moral, followed by a cluster fuck of epic proportions.
Steve in DC
@Violet:
Not what you want but I’m sure you could slap this on Mittens and it would sting…
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181984/
Tokyokie
@catclub: The Democrats need to be hitting Romney hard on his tax return. Mitt and Ann knowingly and deliberately mischaracterized a hobby as an ongoing business in order to avoid taxes. Tax fraud, pure and simple, a felony. Democrats (surrogates, not Obama) need to call him on it. Ask what else he has to hide, whether in undisclosed tax returns or Swiss bank accounts. Call for a special prosecutor. Ask what else a guy who commits tax fraud might lie about. This is like McCain’s admission of not knowing how many houses he owned in placing Romney in an economic stratum far removed from most Americans, but it’s different in that it involves criminal conduct. This is a way to paint Romney as the lifelong crooked lowlife that he is. And I fear Democrats are going to let it slip past, a mistake the GOP would never make.
rikyrah
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
Good luck with that. Barack Obama is one of the best BLack people I’ve ever known at dealing with White folks’ shyt that I’ve ever seen. There is a skill to it, and on some level, all Black folks have it, but some have it better than others. The Obama skill level is but one reason why Black folks respect the President and First Lady so much.
Michael Eric Dyson was substituting for Ed Schultz on Friday and cracked me up when he made the point that a whole lotta Black folk routinely make: if White folk can’t deal with Barack Obama, then there isn’t a Black man alive that they can deal with, because most Black folk woulda told the GOP where to go and what to kiss by now.
Redshift
@Tokyokie: I suspect the Obama campaign is saving the tax return issue for the fall, when undecided voters are paying attention. If they push it during the silly season, there’s a much greater chance that Romney could release something, cause a week or so of uproar in the media, and have it be “old news” that no one will report on by September.
seanindc
well you could set up mittromneyislying.com
Redshift
@FlipYrWhig:
Especially since there was correspondence unearthed a few months ago about how he did polling to decide whether to be pro-choice when he ran there.
I think there’s a real danger from people who want to convince themselves that Romney is “really” what he was in MA, and once he gets past the crazies, that’s who he’ll be. I suspect most of them just don’t want to vote for Obama (either because of prejudice or the usual “vote against the incumbent if the economy is bad”) and are looking for a reason to rationalize it.
Against that, tagging him as “lying” is not necessarily sufficient — they’re counting on him being a liar. They more important idea is that he’s untrustworthy. He won’t be the “real” Romney if he’s elected; he has no principles and will just do whatever is best for him politically. If he’s elected, he’ll almost certainly have a Republican Congress, and what will be best for him is to give them whatever they want, not to stand up to them.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@rikyrah:
I agree that it’s a stupid strategy, given Obama’s level head and personality. But that won’t stop them from trying.
My not-so-secret hope is that it’s Romney who loses his cool at debate time: He pretty clearly isn’t used to being questioned, or forced to back up anything he says.
Valdivia
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
my question is will the moderators even let Obama call him out in any way. Given the way they act they will be assholes to Obama and all deference to President Elect Romney.
I hope the O team has someone subbing also for the media jerks in the debate.
MCA1
Agree with others upthread that the “liar” label is too easily dismissed with “Both sides do it.” You simply can’t take the time to explain that in the major leagues of lying that is American politics, Mitt Romney is Ted Williams and Babe Ruth rolled into one. No one’s listening when you call someone running for President out for dissembling. I think there should be a basic, binary response system laid out for anything he says: flip-flop, or failed Bush policy. Lay the groundwork for this in a speech somewhere, or have Axelrod and co. repeat it every time they have a media audience. It has to be the framing for everything from here to November: “Listen to Romney when he talks. Literally everything he says is either a reversal from his prior position or a failed Bush policy. And disturbingly often, both.”
Unrelated to the above, but germane to some discussion upthread: the debates will do nothing for the President, no matter how badly he clobbers Romney on substance and ability to debate. So stop thinking of them as the silver bullet to this zombie candidacy. When the post-debate analysts are Bobo and Gergen and whoever else, none of them will say anything other than “somewhat disappointing for the President,” or that reinforces that Romney climbed over the 2 millimeter hurdle they set for him, unless he wets himself on stage or shows up in a puff of smoke with a pitchfork and a goatee.
Villago Delenda Est
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
One of the more thankless jobs on the Rmoney campaign staff. Given how their candidate seems to be highly resistant to any attempt at coaching, and keeps opening his mouth and allowing gaffes to pour out, revealing his contempt for anyone with a annual income less than his own. His wife displays the same trend.
shortstop
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
I suspect we’ll see several more temper tantrums directed at the media. I think he’ll manage not to get angry during debates, but when he gets flustered and starts that magnificently fake hearty laugh, it’s just about as off-putting to people.
LanceThruster
Mendacious Mitt, the 1%’s twit.
Steve in DC
@shortstop:
Rick Fucking Perry managed to get under his skin and twist him up. So much so that Romney was complaining about his turn and trying to make 10k bets on the debate stage. And it’s not like Perry is a remotely skilled debater.
I don’t think Romney has the balls for a proper flare up. McCain I could see telling someone to fuck themselves mid debate. Santorum I could see saying something really nasty with that “who smells shit” look on his face. But Romney, dude lacks the balls for it.
Romney’s angry would be more protesting about who’s turn it is, tossing out bets, and other stuff. And that hurts him, he doesn’t look confident, he looks like a sissy.
wrb
But now he’s on a roll and has discovered that he seems to be teflon.
Affects how one responds, makes the skin hard to get under.
Jebediah
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
I think it’s a pretty safe bet – as you say, we can already see how prickly he gets being questioned once. By the end of a full debate, I expect him to be yelling at the President “Clear out your desk right now you’re fired!” or somesuch.
Jebediah
@boss bitch:
Yeah, it seems like the kind of thing that could have a lot of variations, and maybe if they are funny too they will resonate and stick with people.
Tokyokie
@Redshift: I hope that’s the case. That Romney, who’s been running for president for the better part of a decade, would sign off on something so transparently fraudulent I find staggeringly politically incompetent (as well as arrogant).
Lojasmo
@Steve in DC:
He said “mitt…yes it’s my first name.” God, you’re as bad as rmoney.
mclaren
So you weren’t around when Ronald Reagan was in office?
Because Reagan was the prototypical “every word out of his mouth, including `and’ and `the,’ was a lie” politician.
Elie
@shortstop:
Alls someone has to do is ask him from the audience, “Bishop Romney, what are you upset about?”
After that, the “cat is out of the bag”. That is the 600 ton gorilla that no one asks about and is CENTRAL to Romney’s quest to be President: “Tell us Bishop Romney what saparation of church and state means for you should you become President of the United States?”
He is BISHOP Romney — and should be called that just as he is called GOVERNOR Romney or MISTER Romney or MITT Romney. He is a Bishop in the Mormon church and shoot, we need to know what ThaT is going to mean before he gets his ass in there.