Perhaps the least shocking verdict in the history of jurisprudence, but Sandusky was convicted of 45 of 48 counts and will spend the rest of his miserable life in jail. Aside from the horror those kids (many now adults) went through, the most upsetting portion of this case to me is that Paterno is dead and will never have to answer for his complicity and the fact that this is not happening every day to Catholic priests, many of whom did the same or worse than Sandusky.
Reader Interactions
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Mayken
I was actually a little afraid that he would be acquitted frankly. But I’m feeling kinda cynical lately. Glad to have some of my faith in American justice revived.
Maude
Did he go to jail tonight until he’s sentenced?
Another Halocene Human
Well, hopefully the investigation of The Second Mile trudges on and more of the scummy enablers will get their just desserts.
Tired of people blaming the wrong things. Authoritarianism created the environment in which child rape blossomed.
lamh35
yup if this officials at Penn State or the people around the first kid had just damn well listened to that kid, then these other occurrences may never have happened!! Something needs to be done to the enablers at Penn State and beyond.
The victims who testified are the bravest people in this!
Baud
@Mayken:
I feel exactly the same way.
lamh35
@Maude: I believe so. He was taken immediately into custody
amk
What next ? Impeach tom corbett for dereliction of duty as AG in all those years ?
magurakurin
@lamh35: that reckoning is coming. On the heels of a criminal conviction the floodgate will open up with civil suits. Penn State is about to be sued into oblivion. And Second Mile will be bankrupt faster than you can say “tickle monster.”
Hey Jerry, go die in prison asshole. You low life sack of shit.
Violet
@Maude:
Just heard the sentencing isn’t for three months. Maybe he goes to jail until then.
amk
Today seems to be not a good day for pedophiles.
Three-nineteen
I don’t know what to say. If I believed in God, I would say that he’s getting his just reward in Heaven. (Or not.) But I don’t, so I can only say this means we need to strive for a more just world here, on Earth.
Three-nineteen +5 (sorry Nanny)
maven
Shocking that many families in Penn brought their ‘families’; children to the steps of the Court house for the results. Is this verdict for family viewing? Should I bring pizza? Will there be Clowns?
Make sure they wear shorts and can text it to their friends.
It’s all just so sick.
Punchy
Ruh roh. You just mentioned Catholics. I suspect Burnsie will be here in 2-n-2 to excoriate your stupid ass…..
El Cid
Adult women who are serving military members get punished for reporting being raped by their own fellow military personnel; why would we expect so much better behavior from far less regulated institutions with far more powerless victims?
Southern Beale
…and the fact that this is not happening every day to Catholic priests….
True and not arguing that though I did read today that a Catholic priest in PA was sentenced today as well.
Violet
@Another Halocene Human:
Authoritarianism and a hierarchical structure with an infallible leader (the Pope, Paterno, etc.). Without sunlight a lot of terrible things can stay hidden.
magurakurin
@Violet:
I reckon ole Jerry is going to prison until his heart stops or he gets shived in the shower. Short eyes is a bad thing to be in prison.
The Dangerman
I’m rather glad Paterno didn’t live to see this day; really, at this point, for him, RIP.
Sandusky will die in prison and we won’t ever have to listen to him try to justify his monstrous actions (I’m kinda surprised he didn’t testify).
ETA: For those that express shock that it all happened, all I can say is Big College and Small Town creates some truly fucked dynamics. All very, very sad.
Maude
@lamh35:
Thank you and thank the FSM.
Into custody and jail until sentencing and prison.
amk
Twitter
magurakurin
@The Dangerman: Fuck Joe Paterno. They should dig up his stinking corpse and put it on fucking trial as well. And then sentence the skeleton to the same jail term as Sandusky in Jerry’s cell.
Maude
@maven:
There used to be huge public crowds at hangings.
Angela
@amk: Finally, A pedophile convicted and a priest who participated in the cover up of pedophiles convicted. I never really believed I would see the day.
Mnemosyne
@The Dangerman:
Apparently he wanted to testify and had to be talked out of it, because one of his adopted sons came forward during the trial and said that he, too, had been abused. From what the various BJ lawyers have been saying, the son could have been called as a rebuttal witness if Sandusky had testified.
Valdivia
Relieved to see the bad guy go to jail. As all of you already said, now let’s get the enablers.
Maude
@maven:
There used to be huge public crowds at hangings.
Angela
@amk: Finally, A pedophile convicted and a priest who participated in the cover up of pedophiles convicted. I never really believed I would see the day.
General Stuck
Justice served. And swiftly. The victims also have a life sentence, of sort. I hope they can at least find some peace from stolen innocence by this sick monster, and those who let this go on far too long.
Maude
@maven:
There used to be huge crowds at hangings.
Mnemosyne
@The Dangerman:
Sorry, double post. FYWP.
General Stuck
Justice served. And swiftly. The victims also have a life sentence, of sort. I hope they can at least find some peace from stolen innocence by this sick monster, and those who let this go on far too long.
Zagloba
Glad the jury decided to do their jobs, not root for the home team.
wiscomom
@The Dangerman: Really disagree. Paterno should have lived to see this and the consequences of his own actions enabling this monster. A just God would make sure Paterno is hearing the victims 24/7 for all eternity.
Maude
@Maude:
So, there wasn’t a problem loading page, after all.
amk
@magurakurin: +1. Fuck him and his “football record”.
Lyrebird
Am not shocked but am hugely relieved; wasn’t counting on any convictions, myself.
The Harrisburg paper has been on top of this story — here’s the current latest.
http://www.pennlive.com/jerry-sandusky/#incart_hbx
May today be the first day of a new level of relief and comfort to those who were abused.
The Moar You Know
One down. The hundreds of local cops, prosecutors and judges who helped Paterno and his henchmen subvert the legal system (there was a lot more than pedophilia going on there) skate with no consequences.
Justice? I guess, for a few kids.
Mnemosyne
@magurakurin:
So Cadaver Synod Part II?
The Dangerman
@magurakurin:
I don’t recall the details (feel free to correct me), but I don’t recall Paterno having any criminal culpability; civilly, perhaps, but, criminally, not at all. If anything, Paterno is unlucky as he didn’t have the chance to defend himself in any (presumably civil) trial.
the Conster
Those enabling bastards in the administration must be shitting their pants right now. What a bunch of sick sycophants with their heads planted firmly up their asses, and it now looks like they chose poorly.
scav
In some ways, the two verdicts are bookends. In the Catholic case, the verdict went against (at least one of) the enablers. This verdict went against the perpetrator. There’s still work to be done in both situations as if often the case, but all the same, good.
Three-nineteen
@wiscomom: I am on board with this. Paterno should have had to live with the consequences of what he did to hide this shame. Penn State and even The Biig 10 should have to deal with this. Otherwise, this means nothing.
JPL
My concern was a hung jury. I followed the trial the first few days and several jury members were in tears so an acquittal seemed out of the question.
MSNBC.com has a live feed of the defense atty. statements. Many boos and cheers when he said Jerry will get a life sentence.
Kevin
Hey now guys, be nice, Joe Paterno didn’t even know that rape was possible, nope, cause, you see, in his day, they tied an onion on their belt they did…
Gotta love the “i’m old and feeble, how was i to know what to do?” If he lived a little longer, i’m sure he’d tell everyone that he didn’t know how to use a phone, since it had changed so much since his days as a child. Such a pathetic person, just like the rest of the Penn State enablers.
Kevin
Hey now guys, be nice, Joe Paterno didn’t even know that rape was possible, nope, cause, you see, in his day, they tied an onion on their belt they did…
Gotta love the “i’m old and feeble, how was i to know what to do?” If he lived a little longer, i’m sure he’d tell everyone that he didn’t know how to use a phone, since it had changed so much since his days as a child. Such a pathetic person, just like the rest of the Penn State enablers.
Violet
Sandusky’s defense lawyer seems like a slimy bastard.
lamh35
@The Dangerman: dude please. Paterno is dead, so nothing can be done, but damn sure while he was alive, if the great big Penn State God Paterno had gone to the police or told the higher ups at Penn State about the incident his asst Coach witnessed at the time, the other incidents of abuse may have been avoided…period. All it would have taken was one person of some clout saying “get this monster” to jail, for this almost what 20 years of abuse of children could have been avoided.
Paterno being dead doesn’t make his past actions any less retched.
Dude can def “rest…” but I sincerely hope his “rest” aint’ peaceful.
magurakurin
@Mnemosyne: I did not know that /walter sobchack voice
Sounds like a plan. Maybe we can roll out a version for the Catholic Priests in the Northeast as well. I’m sure there are some dead motherfuckers who knew all about that nastiness as well.
Kevin
@Three-nineteen: Well, it does mean that an unrepentant pedophile is going to jail where he can’t hurt kids any more, so there is that.
Violet
@Kevin: From what I’ve heard, inmates aren’t particularly kind to convicted pedophiles in prison.
magurakurin
@The Dangerman:
Nah, fuck that.
Where’s my goddamn shovel when I need it?
JPL
@Violet: He is a slimy bastard. Google his name.
lacp
@Another Halocene Human: I think Second Mile already dissolved as an organization; I know it was going to and was supposed to hand its assets over to some other organization (saw this a day or two ago). There’s also ongoing investigation into some of the top Penn State officials involved, and it looks like at least one of them is in very serious trouble.
The Dangerman
@lamh35:
But he did report to his higher ups (which is why they got fired, too)…
ETA: And, IIRC, the police were involved early in the process as well.
Obviously, the system broke, but as posted above, Big College, Small Town leads to some really fucked up things. Singling out Paterno, especially after death when he can’t defend himself, is rather pointless.
JPL
@lacp: Second Mile turned over 2 million in cash to another org. Is that legal?
Kevin
If only the Catholic church could be hit this hard. I’ll take the bankruptcies, but more people need to go to jail.
Ken Pidcock
Paterno rightly lost his job. Given his stature, his decision to remain silent conveyed the message that everybody at the university should do the same. But…Anyone who claims to know that they would have done different needs to examine whether they really understand the human experience.
tam
Deadspin is reporting that the jury ruled “not guilty” on the count McQueary witnessed. How can that be?
rikyrah
May he burn in hell
Kevin
@Ken Pidcock: Yes, i understand the human experience quite well. He should have told someone. And when he did tell someone and nothing happened, he should have told someone else.
Why the hell are people trying to defend some of these people? They were all big boys and they all failed spectacularly.
Three-nineteen
@Kevin: @Kevin: IMHO, everyone who enabled that unrepentant pedophile should also be done for in proper society ( as well as any other society). Duo you disagrees?
Three-nineteen + 5
JPL
@tam: Each victim had several counts. They found not guilty on penetration because of confusion. McQueary’s testimony validated the pattern of behavior that other’s testified to. It was pretty key imo..
here is a link to the charges.. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/06/jerry_sandusky_verdict_complet.html
El Cid
Cop Grudgingly Admits Suspect Is The Best Goddamn Pedophile He’s Seen In 30 Years On The Force
pluege
worse than paterno escaping justice with his timely death are the 5000 Penn State students that came out in support of him because football is more important to them than justice for someone aiding and abetting a pedophile. Great that paterno is gone, but those 5000 scum students are still among us being part of the shiny bright future of this thoroughly screwed society.
Indecency reigns supreme in America, horrific indecency warrants nary a yawn.
lamh35
@tam: hearsay. I think that victim did not testify.
ChrisNYC
@tam: That was the testimony that the jury asked to rehear. It apparently had some inconsistencies — McQueary did not say that he saw a rape and the person he spoke to the next day said that McQ used less extreme language immediately after the fact. I don’t think that victim testified. The charge was straight up rape.
El Cid
@Kevin: I don’t think it’s a defense of powerful figures like Paterno if people suspect that the lure of power and other things such as the hero-worship Paterno received would warp many regular peoples’ view of things and therefore you would possibly act less admirably than you might think.
True or not, it’s a “power corrupts” argument rather than a “hey, you just got to see things their way for a second” argument.
Mnemosyne
@tam:
They ruled “not guilty” on 1 of the 5 counts with Victim #2 (who was never actually found, so that entire case rested solely with McQueary).
Basically, without the victim present to testify, the prosecution couldn’t prove actual penetration, so that was the one “not guilty” count of the 5 charges with that victim.
lamh35
So I wonder will anyone have the balls to former AG now current governor of PA Corbett if his AG office at the time knew of Sandusky’s incident in ’98 and if so why wasn’t something done.
The Moar You Know
Paterno went to the cops, prosecutors and judges all the time. Players arrested for everything from burglary to drug dealing to assault with a deadly weapon were repeatedly released from arrest and jail and all charges dropped on nothing more than a word from Paterno.
He could have stopped this with a word anytime he wanted to. He didn’t. Fuck him, he was an amoral monster who cared for nothing but his power and reputation and if I believed in a hell I would pray every day he was burning in it.
clayton
Wingnut reporter here in Houston to ‘man on the street’: What do you think of the verdict?
Man: He deserves life in prison.
Wingnut reporter: He didn’t murder anybody. Some murderers don’t get life.
Wingnut reporter guy probably makes more than me.
Mnemosyne
@Three-nineteen:
Depends on what you mean by “enabled.” There were apparently quite a few people (especially former players) who had no idea what was going on, or who saw one or two weird things that they shrugged off, but in retrospect realize that they shouldn’t have.
It’s the people who actively assisted Sandusky or actively participated in the multiple cover-ups who need to be punished.
dlnelson
I am proud of the men for stepping forward. Cannot be easy in this day and age. There is strength in numbers.
Freemark
@lamh35: He told the higher ups at Penn State. That and there is no evidence he ever tried to protect Sandusky are the reasons he was never considered for criminal prosecution. Unlike the higher ups who are being prosecuted.
JoyfulA
@The Dangerman: One reason Sandusky didn’t testify is that an adopted son who was abused (and was not part of the trial) stood ready as a rebuttal witness if he did.
Donut
@Ken Pidcock:
What the FUCK is there to UNDERSTAND about stopping a rapist from attacking children!????
The fuck is wrong with you?
The Dangerman
@The Moar You Know:
I heard he also stole candy from trick or treaters (hey, I can pull accusations out my ass, too).
lacp
@JPL: I’m pretty sure it is. Although I haven’t been following the case closely, it looks like the Second Mile people weren’t as clued in to what was going on as the Penn State ones.
The Dangerman
@Donut:
I hear you; he should have went Chuck Norris on Sandusky’s ass. Please. He went to his superiors. The cops were involved.
kamalokitty
And what say all of the human beings who had to close their eyes, live in such deep denial over this rampant bullshit unfolding before them over YEARS? How does one live with oneself, look in the mirror. The people who stood up for him under penalty of perjury and claim he was a stand-up guy. His wife, for fuck’s sake. His wife?
I don’t pray, I don’t believe in God, and I wish I did tonight, because I think of all the kids who were violated. And it never ends with just the kids. This kind of violation spans generations. It hurts their families, their spouse, their children. Life in prison doesn’t fix this shit.
I’m going to light some incense and work it extra hard in yoga practice tomorrow. And I’m going to pray for these kids who are now men and send good thoughts, for whatever it’s worth. Please let it be worth something.
But thanks to the jurors. Thanks to all of you who have ever been called to serve. I know it’s horribly inconvenient. I know many of you are cynical, jaded whatever, don’t want to be a part of the judicial system. I know. I thank you anyway. Thank you for showing up and for taking it seriously regardless. None of this would work without you. Thank you.
gelfling545
@JPL: I believe this is usual when a nonprofit org dissolves, its assets being transferred to another nonprofit since there are no shareholders, owners or the like.
Dave
@The Dangerman:
Fuck you. He had moral culpability.
burnspbesq
@Punchy:
If you’re so sure you know what I’m planning to write, write it for me, asshole.
catpal
@magurakurin: thank you. It is well known that Paterno did many criminal, immoral, and unethical things to protect his very profitable PSU football program.
Paterno deserved to be in prison for many reasons in addition to the coverup for Sandusky.
Violet
@kamalokitty:
I think his wife not seeing it is no surprise at all. Think of the number of stories of kids who were abused by a male family member who went to their mother or grandmother or aunt or whoever and that adult woman told them to shut their mouth and never speak of it again. Or that it was their fault. or they were lying. That Sandusky’s wife couldn’t see it, even if she did see it, is of no surprise to me. She could easily have shut that part of her brain off to protect the rest of her life. And for her, it was true that he was innocent, even though he wasn’t.
lamh35
Penn State statement on Sandusky verdict.
http://progress.psu.edu/resource-library/story/penn-state-releases-statement-on-sandusky-trial-june-22-2012
Mnemosyne
@efgoldman:
This. I have a feeling that the non-Catholics here don’t quite get the significance of this conviction.
A monsignor is a guy who’s in charge of supervising several parishes and is one step below a bishop. If you want to go for a military metaphor, he’s a lieutenant or whatever the lowest level of commissioned officer was in your branch of the service.
So, yes, it’s a pretty fucking big deal that an actual senior Church official was found guilty of conspiracy.
The Moar You Know
@The Dangerman: Oh, and a link. Not from my ass, as you will note.
Plenty more out there. Why are you running cover for an enabler of pedophila and a subverter of the legal system?
The Dangerman
@Dave:
Fuck you, too. Thanks for agreeing with me that he had no criminal culpability.
hitchhiker
@ChrisNYC:
They don’t know who the kid was. They also don’t know who the kid was that the janitor saw.
DH
Look, Paterno claimed that the whole point of his program was that is was this great Noble Experiment to see if college football could coexist with good values; for example, education.
So besides enabling child molesting, we have a definitive answer to this experiment: College football intrinsically cannot coexit with good values. Make the NFL do what baseball has done for years and years: pay for a minor league system, which would stop the ridiculous hypocrisy of the idea of the “student athelete”. Colleges could then get back to what is their primary mission: EDUCATION.
And if you seriously think Paterno didn’t know about any of this, and has no complicity here, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you
The Dangerman
@The Moar You Know:
Because I find accusations like “enabling pedophilia” and “subverting the legal system” should have some evidence to support them. Having charges decreased (which happens, ya know, all the damn time) is not exactly proof of Paterno’s culpability of your accusations.
Donut
@The Dangerman:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7212054/key-dates-penn-state-nittany-lions-sex-abuse-case
Read the god damned timeline. The first allegations surfaced in 1998. Repeatedly covered up. No one stepping up
Pedophiles and other victimizers depend on assholes like you to make excuses for those around them, throw up your hands and say, “mistakes were made, gee ain’t human nature hard to figure out”
Jesus Fuck. He fucked little kids and the people around him covered it up.. No excuses are acceptable
The Dangerman
@Donut:
I read the damned timeline; if there was a cover up, it was done by others beyond Paterno.
What do people expect a person to do besides go to your superior and go to the cops? Seriously, folks, pull your heads out your ass. If the Administrators/cops/courts didn’t stop it, what was Paterno supposed to do beyond what he did? At some point, it’s the cops and courts that fucked up, not Paterno.
chopper
@Violet:
yeah, he better hope he gets put up in the cucumbers.
burnspbesq
Cole, when there is evidence, priests get convicted. We saw that today.
If that’s not good enough for you, tell us what would be good enough for you.
stinger
So Paterno told his higher-ups and nothing happened. Was that really all he could do? Can’t a head coach fire an assistant coach?
catpal
@The Dangerman: just stop. and please read.
Ex-Penn State official saw Paterno’s ‘dark side’
“The coach was literally telling his players that they couldn’t cooperate with judicial affairs or they would get kicked off the team.”
Nutella
Detailed rundown of Sandusky’s career from PennLive.com says this about Second Mile:
I am very impressed with the jury. From the results we’ve heard it sounds like they were able to carefully consider the charges and the evidence in a very emotional and high pressure case.
The Dangerman
@catpal:
Well, that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he enabled the pedophilia. Please.
The Dangerman
@stinger:
Actually, the coach was removed.
Tim I
You’re really on a roll, John. Maybe we should take up a collection to get you a fainting couch. Why are you so worried about Sandusky? I’m glad he got to hear his neighbors calling for blood. Of course this trial was the biggest event in Bellefonte in decades, so naturally people went to see what was happening. That’s just human nature. It’s always been that way and I suspect it won’t be changing any time soon.
I am equally appalled by your disturbing need to bring Catholic Priests into this. Sandusky was a monster of the most vile and prolific sort. If he gets 500 years, it will be less than he deserves. Why bring in the Priests, John. Do you have any evidence to show that every priest is a pedophile? Why would you think they were worse than Sandusky, the hometown football hero?
I have no use for pedophile priests, but I don’t assume that all clergy people are guilty of sex crimes. Do your have a particular issue with Catholics? I’m glad the crowds cheered Sandusky’s conviction. He is deserving of nothing better, just like anyone who abuses their position of trust to harm the innocents placed in their charge.
The Moar You Know
@The Dangerman: Do you know how this all started?
“According to the grand jury report, Paterno and three other university officials failed to notify police after a graduate assistant coach witnessed Sandusky sexually assaulting a 10-year-old boy in the school’s football facility in 2002.”
That is enabling pedophilia. Full stop. Not that you care, I rather suspect you’re the kind who gets off on the idea.
kamalokitty
At Tim I, with respect to the Catholic church, the problem is not just rogue priests. The problem is that it’s an institutional problem. That problem got a little sunlight today with the conviction of the monsignor; not a hands on predator, but a higher up that makes the actions of a rogue priest metastisize across the nation as a priest is shuffled over to other parishes to harm others. Hiding the misconduct of one, kicking the can down the road as a supervisor becomes an institutional problem. Abusing a position of trust to harm innocents, by simply using your position to pass the problem along.
It makes the institution culpable for their own misdeeds in hiding the problem in the first place. In layspeak, it is simply aiding and abetting. It is harboring. That is equally a crime. Aiding and abetting came to the door of the Catholic church today. About fucking time.
Lyrebird
@dlnelson: hear, hear! These young men have incredible courage. Also some of their moms — iirc complaints filed (against advice by HS staff, etc) by at least one of the moms helped lead to the grand jury whatsit ~ 1 yr ago. I am so grateful that some of the charges STUCK demmit. For these men and for the untold other kids out there who have been and maybe still are afraid to speak up about abuse.
shortstop
@The Dangerman: Stop moving the goalposts. In fact, just stop, period. You’re really creeping us out.
catpal
@kamalokitty: well said.
The Dangerman
@The Moar You Know:
You’re so right; I’m jacking off to it right now. Asshole.
As for McCreary, he reported to the Coach (I don’t recall the details shared) and the Coach in turn reported to his superior.
The Dangerman
@shortstop:
I’m not moving the goalposts; as I recall the thread, the accusation was that Paterno acted to get charges dismissed and what was provided was some wild claim from a former Penn State employee. Now, for the learning impaired (this would mean you), one has nothing to do with the other…
…and neither has anything to do with pedophilia.
Why do I mention you being learning repaired? You lit me up the other night for saying “as of now, Bristol Palin” has limited career choices. I’m fairly sure that the words in quotes are direct quotes. Key words there are AS OF NOW. AS OF NOW, she does not have any collegiate training. AS OF NOW. This isn’t really hard stuff.
As for creeping people out, all I’m doing is defending someone that wasn’t ever going to be charged in a court of law…
…and have received responses like “that is how I get off”. And I’m the one creeping you out? Really?
magurakurin
how much longer before Dangerman tells us to remember that the kids who were raped might have been enjoying it. It was sex afterall.
Hey Dangerman, fuck you too,asshole.
stinger
@The Dangerman: When you say “the coach was removed”, do you mean that when Paterno learned of one incident from McCreary in 2002, that Paterno fired Sandusky soon thereafter? He apparently didn’t take away Sandusky’s keys to the coaches’ locker room.
Or do you mean that Penn State fired Paterno a few months ago? I already know that.
The Dangerman
@magurakurin:
Yeah, I’m the one moving the goalposts. What type of vile shit posts an accusation like that? How about it, shortstop? That creeping you out at all?
The Dangerman
@stinger:
True, that is a problem, but, since the Dude is dead, we really don’t know why that was.
As for firing him, I think you have the timeline correct.
shortstop
@The Dangerman:
Too fucking funny.
That was you? Is that what you call someone casually disagreeing with your opinion on a blog? Do you burst into tears at real confrontations?
Well, actually she does. My suggestion was that she finish it, rather than settle for what you insisted were the only things she could possibly be doing RIGHT NOW(!), working at Taco Bell (was it?) or grifting on reality TV.
I get that you’re worked up and doubling down right now, but you’re throwing wild punches in every direction. You might want to calm down a little and take a look in the morning to figure out what all these comments look like to people who don’t share your investment in minimizing Paterno’s moral culpability.
shortstop
Double post.
stinger
Sorry, I’m still not understanding. Didn’t Head Coach Paterno have the ability to fire Assistant Coach Sandusky after Paterno learned Sandusky was abusing children under his (Paterno’s) watch, when reporting Sandusky to the authorities had no effect?
The Moar You Know
@The Dangerman:
I’m enjoying dissecting your enabling bullshit. You’re good at this. Have you had practice in covering for abusers?
Paterno, as a coach, was a state-mandated child abuse reporter. What that means is that he had a legal duty to inform law enforcement of suspected – not proven, not witnessed, but merely suspected – child abuse. Just like any other teacher, coach, or social worker. HE DID NOT DO THAT. He went to the university president instead. That doesn’t cut it. You must report directly to law enforcement as soon as possible by phone, followed by a written report to the state within 48 hours.
By the way, you mentioned earlier that he had no criminal culpability. Mandated reporters who fail to report suspected abuse are guilty of a crime.
Move those goalposts again, if you can spare a moment to free up a hand from the fapping.
shortstop
@magurakurin: No, I don’t think he’s Tim/Kola.
kamalokitty
Wow. A “wild claim” from a former Penn State employee. Except it wasn’t a “wild” claim. A Penn State Vice President kept a file on Sandusky’s inappropriate adventures and failed to turn it over to law enforcement. It might be “wild” to the unassuming public, but it certainly wasn’t “wild” to the institution. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/12/penn-state-officials-had-secret-file-of-information-on-sandusky-documents-show/. Gary Schultz should hang as long and as far as Sandusky.
At the end of the day, Paterno had the institution by the balls. Did he not? Did he not have command of an entire institution? For a very long time? Maybe he was not criminally liable. But why split hairs? Why? You have the power and control of an institution, you know what went down, and you think you’ve discharged your duty by telling your “superiors.”
Sorry, that just broke my bullshit meter.
The Dangerman
@shortstop:
Fucking spellcheck (not that I always use it).
I do. I’m a p*ssy as well as someone that jacks off to pedophilia (apparently). I’ve been on the receiving end of this wild shit … and I’m the one swinging wildly?
As for minimizing Paterno’s moral culpability, we see things differently; I don’t see Paterno as the ultimate “bad guy” here. Of course, beyond Sandusky (duh), that would be the AD and the cops. Paterno did what he should have done (at least at a minimum). He reported and nothing came of it.
Now, I suppose he could have gone outside the chain of command in reporting; now, that isn’t always the best idea (and is a good way for the average Joe to get fired), but I suppose he could have reported to someone else. Did that enable the rapes? I don’t see it that way.
Kevin
I think Dangerman went to Penn…seems way to invested in upholding the great honour of the great great Joe Paterno.
Face it, he failed as a human here. Utterly failed, to save his own reputation. He heard allegations in 1998, they fired him….but let him continue to use the school with children…unsupervised.
Then an assistant tells him he saw Sandusky having sex with a child in the showers, and Paterno goes to the higher ups…but not the cops. Why? Because, like him, the higher ups in Penn had no interest in sullying the good name of the school and the program. Nothing got done, again, and Paterno continued to turn a blind eye to the twice accused pedophile brining kids to the school to play.
He was culpable. He could have done so much more, but he didn’t. He didn’t for his reputation. Cowardly piece of shit.
Bill
@stinger:
Paterno couldn’t really have fired Sandusky in 2002, since he had already “retired” in 1999.
The Dangerman
@The Moar You Know:
Actually, I’m a double fister, so I’ll type with my toes.
As for reporting to the Police, I think (and I could be wrong), that’s on McCreary, not on Paterno. In fact, as I recall (and I’m not going to go read the GJ transcipts tonight), McCreary didn’t exactly tell Paterno all that he saw. Again, on him, not Paterno.
Kevin
And what’s this chain of command shit? This isn’t the military. This wasn’t even about another employee at his company. The correct course of action is to go to the police. The only reason he did otherwise is he knew that they wouldn’t do anything (as they hadn’t in the past), but he could then say “dur…i’m old and confused, i told them but they did nothing”
The Dangerman
@Kevin:
Didn’t go to PSU; I do know a little about Paterno because I worked with one of his players from his first National Championship team (Dude was huge and had a ring to match from that team).
As stated above, did Paterno do ALL he possibly could have done? Of course not. Did he do what he should have done? Seems to me that he did. All this stuff about him enabling the rapes is rather bizarre.
Kevin
@The Dangerman: I don’t think it’s that bizarre at all. He knew about the allegations as far back as 1998, and definitely 2002, yet he allowed the man to continue using the facilities to be with young boys.
If you know, or have reason to believe that a person is a pedophile, and you allow them to use your private facilities to be around children in intimate ways (showers, sleepovers), you are enabling them. I really can’t see how that isn’t enabling.
cckids
@kamalokitty:
This. A thousand, thousand times. I’ve heard damn near all my life what an honorable man/coach Paterno was. How he wasn’t just about winning, he was about building men; how much character he had.
And in this, he was handed a clear-cut, right-vs-wrong (tho personally difficult) situation that involved really horrifying abuse of children, and what did he do? The absolute minimum required of him by his job. Not by his religion, not by any possible code of character, not even by the f*cking law in most states, just kicked it down the road & hid his head.
That is truly the measure of the man, as far as I’m concerned. No honor whatsoever.
As J.K.Rowling had Dumbledore say,”many times in our lives we will have to choose between doing what is right, or what is easy.” Paterno, to his everlasting discredit, chose wrong. And many, many kids paid for his cowardice.
kamalokitty
@cckids. That made me cry.
“Many kids paid for his cowardice.” Indeed. Indeed.
The Dangerman
@Kevin:
I think the key word there is allegations; allegations that were investigated and, for whatever reason, dropped.
At the risk of taking even more shit (getting off, etc), I once had a subordinate accuse me of some sort of harassment. I never really got the full story on what I was supposed to have done to her (if it isn’t obvious, I didn’t do anything), but I was investigated and “cleared” (and, from first hand experience, let me be the first to tell you you are never really “cleared”).
Should allegations have been enough to kick Sandusky off campus? For someone in the Administration, maybe, but Paterno himself? I don’t see it that way.
karen marie
@The Dangerman: But he was a mandated reporter and he failed to make a report to the police. His duty was not to report to his superiors but to report to the police. Something about that you have trouble understanding?
Mnemosyne
@The Dangerman:
IIRC, at least one of the victims who testified in this trial was involved in the previous allegations that got dropped. So it’s pretty hard to claim that there was nothing to be investigated.
I understand that your first instinct prior to the trial would be to believe Sandusky, but a jury just convicted him of 45 of the 48 charges. Do you still think there was nothing to those previous allegations?
ETA: I mean, I can kinda see defending Paterno’s lack of action before Sandusky was convicted, but you sure sound like you’re still convinced that maybe Sandusky didn’t really do anything and all of those kids (and McQueary) lied on the stand.
freemark
@karen marie: Actually not true, at the time of the incident he did exactly what he was supposed to do. He had no legal obligation to go to the police. And it was something he hears second-hand. Should he have done more, yes.
What bothers me is everyone is making shit up about Paterno. I have never a big fan of his but there is no evidence he knew anything beyond what McQueary told him, which wasn’t that much. McQueary told him he saw something that wasn’t right but didn’t give him any details. Paterno then told the Penn State higher ups whos responsibility it was to investigate.
Assuming Paterno knew anything beyond this is pure speculation and there no evidence of any sort that he knew anything before this incident or of anything after before the grand jury was created.
So lets go over what we know Paterno knew. He knew second-hand that McQueary had seen an ex-employee of Paterno’s possibly doing something to a teenager in the shower. That is it. There is nothing else. If anyone has any other evidence; grand jury or trial transcript, a credible news report, or anything else that shows Paterno participated in a cover up please let me know. I would like to see evidence so I can jump on the band wagon with you.
Paterno may very well have known something, maybe he did help cover it up, but I don’t know and neither does anyone else here. Damn it I want at least a little proof before I dig up his corpse so I can shit on it.
stinger
@Bill: Ah, thanks, I probably should have known this, but the whole thing is so awful I couldn’t bear to pay attention to details.
Bill G
@Mnemosyne: I don’t think Dangerman is saying he thinks Sandusky was innocent and wrongly convicted. What I believe he’s saying (and please correct me if I’m wrong!) is that Paterno only heard some general allegations from McQueary, not the whole story. The general information Paterno got was enough to make him want to have it looked in to but not enough to be reasonable cause to believe that abuse actually occurred (which is usually the standard in mandatory reporting laws). Because he didn’t have that reasonable cause, he brought it to his superiors for them to investigate to see if there was actually any substance behind what McQueary said he saw. The higher-ups either simply failed everyone miserably or actively covered up the abuse. Because of that, Paterno believed that the investigation was done and that the administration found no actual substance, meaning that even after an investigation was thoroughly conducted, there was no evidence that gave the administration a reasonable belief that abuse occurred. Because this believed-to-be-thorough investigation didn’t turn up anything, Paterno didn’t see any reason to fire Sandusky.
Is that right, Dangerman?
The Dangerman
@Bill G:
Seems a fairly good synopsis on my limited caffeine intake so far this nmorning, though I thought Sandusky was removed along the way (not sure he was fired)…
…and where did I ever say Sandusky was innocent (maybe not your thought, but it came up in the thread)? I said no such thing and would never any such thing post-verdict. Now, since I actually recall my civics classes, pre-verdict I would have striven to at least give Sandusky a kernel, if not the whole damn cob, of innocent until proven guilty, but once he’s convicted, I’d personally cut the fuckers balls off with a sharp knife (a dull one would take longer and I don’t need to be “in that area” longer than absolutely necessary).
Sandusky finally went through the judicial process; Paterno, for obvious reasons, will never do so, and I give any allegations against Paterno the same weight I would give the allegations against the McMartin Family. Anyone recall that case from long ago where hysteria overrode common sense? From my viewpoint, Paterno = McMartin until the process proves otherwise (and, of course, that now can’t happen). Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Again, I think your synopsis is close enough with the noted potential anomaly to be quite fair…
…but, really, the hysteria really DID take hold late in this thread (“Dangerman believes Sandusky innocent”, yeah, right, bite me whoever said that nonsense).
TTT
Paterno was renowned for pulling strings to make sure his players who committed real crimes like assault and battery never saw harsher punishment than having go clean out the locker room.
I wouldn’t give a squirt of piss for his frivolous career or the frivolous childrens game it revolved around or any of the other violent privileged thugs who played that stupid game with him.
AirBetty
It sickens me what rapists do to children. They deserve penalty for their actions. What also greatly sickens me is the treatment of inmates while in prison. I don’t take kindly to jungle justice while in a US prison.
newtons.third
The only non-victim that I feel sorry for here is Mrs. Paterno. She has to deal with the fallout of the actions of her deceased husband, and most likely will not have any way to answer what is said.