Wingnuts, who spent the last decade cheering us forcibly bringing “freedom and democracy” to the Middle East are suddenly very upset with the outcome of that democracy:
Who did they think they would elect? Palin?
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kindness
Of course the reichtwingnutz would have preferred the Army candidate won.
Freedom! or somethin’ like that.
Villago Delenda Est
“Democracy” to the wingnuts means something that no one in Athens or 19th century America would recognize.
me
They did or at least the muslim, male, probably more intelligent equivalent thereof.
Brachiator
Some Egyptians are not totally thrilled at the outcome either, and there is some fear that the military will intervene.
Also, too, would people here be happy if a Rick Samtorum was elected president of a majority Christian America?
Cap'n Magic
The Religious Right gets into anaphylatic shock mode when Islamists get the top bid in countries, yet they also demand that we Americans follow them into an American version of Sharia, following the laws spelled out in Deuterotomy.
Lets not forget that Dinesh D’Souza’s claim that when it comes to “core beliefs” he has more in common with the Grand Mufti of Egypt than with Michael Moore.
jon
Elections matter! Unless the wrong side wins.
Martin
There’s a lipstick on a camel joke in there somewhere, but the beer has to wait a bit longer.
Martin
But few things go to show better that the wingnuts care fuckall about principles, policy, and process if they all lead to outcomes they dislike. Mussolini knew these Americans well.
Hypatia's Momma
@jon:
As the people of Nicaragua can attest.
MattF
What they really like is places like Singapore, where there’s discipline. No dirty or icky. Anywhere, ever. And people who disagree get the treatment they deserve:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore
Martin
@Brachiator: Well, Santorum and Morsi did run on largely the same platform…
Revanch
John, isn’t it simply the case that the true wingnuts just wanted the violent bloodletting (of Arabs) that the “forcibly” part entails, and the “freedom and democracy” charade was strictly the province of the villager asshats and see-no-evil clowns like Tom Friedman, Andrew Sullivan, et alia?
In effect, it was the single excuse they could muster to sway reasonable people to support the needless, dramatic war and that their inner sadists demanded.
Like all disingenuous good intentions, George W. Bush borrowed this one to pave our road to hell.
dr. bloor
Who did Bibi want?
Amir Khalid
They’re going by the traditional US definition of democracy abroad: when the US puppet wins the elections.
Zifnab
American conservatives are regularly shocked at the unwillingness of foreigners to bow down to the American Empire and their local military/corporate overlords. Honesty, I can’t blame them. We really spoil conservatives in the states by doing just that all too often.
scav
Anyone else get this instant theme song
Brachiator
@Martin:
Which should lead rational people to be somewhat concerned. But as I said earlier, if the Egyptian military intervenes, the results could be very bad for everyone.
By the way, I look forward to hearing Miit’s take on the elections and what our foreign policy should be going forward.
Betty Cracker
Off topic, but I’ve been hearing y’all call Nick Gillespie the “Fonzie of Freedom” for ages, but until his big brouhaha with Rachel Maddow hit the news, I’d never actually seen him. NOW I get it.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@scav: The great Tom Lehrer.
David Koch
This is only the preliminary result.
We won’t know the final result of the Egyptian election until the Roberts Court rules on the restraining orders.
Mike in NC
Bill Kristol demanding a simultaneous American invasion of Syria and Iran in 3, 2, 1…
MattF
@Mike in NC: Aw, tsk, old news.
Brachiator
@dr. bloor:
Bibi and his surrogates are on record as shouting to anyone who will listen that Obama shows how weak and naive he is for not supporting pro-Western authoritarian regimes.
Why do think that Sheldon Adelson has been shoveling so much money to Republicans?
David Koch
@Betty Cracker: what do you mean by “hit the news”?
Jay C
@Brachiator:
Probably something along the lines of: “This is just another incompetent failure of the failed and incompetent Obama Administration, and if I were President it would all have been completely different and better”
Or words to that lame effect….
jl
Well, jeez, I mean, if the US is too weak to invade, and then stay 100 years and make sure the freedom is used responsibly, then this kind of disaster happens.
President in domestic exile McCain has it right. If only he could take his rightful place we would have
peacethe perfect happy land of flowers rainbows gum drops and unicorns through strength./snark tag, though probably only necessary if a wingnut reads it.
MattF
@Brachiator: Are people noticing what a complete disaster Romney’s foreign policy statements have been? Not just wrong (although that too), but deeply ignorant and ridiculous. In his last pronouncement that I recall he was having fits about the Russkis! It’s telling that none of his various ‘advisors’ has made a difference here, although I suppose they’ve tried.
different-church-lady
Fuck… now President McCain is going to have to invade Egypt.
bjacques
Leila take a bow…
gbear
John Bolton.
Brachiator
@MattF:
I don’t know. Neither reporters nor pundits have been paying attention to Romney’s foreign policy nonsense, and prefer to focus on the economy or the horse race aspect of the election. And dressage. Everyone has become stupidly obsessed with dressage.
But apart from Romney’s gaffes, people should pay attention to a recent NY Times story about Mitt’s long friendship with Netanyahu.
Apart from this, conservatives give Romney a pass because they are obsessed with America being “strong” and with Israel.
gogol's wife
@Brachiator:
I mentioned this before, but Vanity Fair has an article about Netanyahu by David Margolick in which it emerges just how deeply involved Sheldon Adelson (big Romney contributor) is with Israeli politics. He started a whole newspaper just for Bibi.
Chris
@MattF:
I get the sense that there aren’t that many reporters who know shit about foreign policy. Among those who do, their ability to talk honestly is to some extent curtailed by the need to not get fired by corporate bosses or piss off the public with a heretical statement (e.g. “Israel isn’t always right.”)
General Stuck
Could be wrong, but wasn’t this general election of a leader of that country the first in the very very very long history of Egypt. You can’t really expect them to sigh, and then get on with democracy. As long as both sides are still mostly talking to each other, rather than shooting, then it has to be a success, imo. However, tomorrow is another day.
The republicans always want Herbert Hoover to win. That is their kind of democracy.
gogol's wife
@Brachiator:
And in the same article Netanyahu denies that he really knows Romney very well. Hard to say what’s true.
Jay C
@Brachiator:
True: but this is the perfect example of
havingabusing the luxury of being able to “shout” from the sidelines, without having to actually play the game. Yeah, it’s all tough-talk and righteous bluster from the usual-suspect neocon crowd, but all their huffy carpings at the “weak and naive Obama Administration” tend to melt away into their component bullshit when asked for an alternative policy/actions. What’s the alternative “strong” US response to the Arab Spring? Sending a brigade or two of Marines in to buck up the Mubarak regime, and clear Tahrir Square with a squad of Bradleys?Sadly, the latter scenario probably would be the preferred response of a non-trivial segment of today’s Republican foreign-policy “establishment”…
Forum Transmitted Disease
Yes, they did think that. I do not understand how the war-cheering right can willfully maintain their current level of stupidity in the face of such overwhelming evidence of their failure.
Betty Cracker
@David Koch: Maddow and Gillespie had a dust-up on Bill Maher’s show. I haven’t even watched the clip, but I saw stories accompanied by stills in several places, including here. Somehow I’d been spared ever seeing a photo of Gillespie until today.
Brachiator
@Jay C:
Conservatives have no problem denying reality when it comes to indulging their fantasy that might makes right. There are people who accept McCain’s ridiculous assertion that the US could have succeeded in Iraq if given more time.
gbear
@MattF:
Chris Matthews seems to be making an effort. From what I’ve seen, Matthews really seems to hate everything about Romney.
WereBear
It is my impression that Matthews has finally “thrown the bit.” He is such an old-school pol, and the stuff the Republicans are asking him to pretend to take seriously are so around-the-bend, that he’s just saying what he thinks, at last.
salacious crumb
Mohammed Morsi is a racist for not confirming to Dear Leader Obama’s choice of a back bending American puppet. Please tell ABL Morsi is a racist and that she should demand a US invasion of Egypt.
Brachiator
@Amir Khalid:
And yet, two of the most signicant foreign news democracy-related stories of the week have nothing much to do with the US or what either American liberals or American conservatives think about anything.
This would be the swift impeachment and removal from office of the president of Paraguay. Some nations have pulled their ambassadors and strongly condemned what has happened. The weakest, most cautious statements have come from the US and Spain.
The other is the removal from office of the prime minister of Pakistan, which appears to be another move in the three way struggle between the Supreme Court there, the civilian government, and the military for control. And if the military get strongly involved, it will mean that a civilian government has never completed its term in the history of the country.
fuzz
I agree with the post up top re: Iraq, from what I remember there was very little talk about re-making the ME in our own image until the invasion had already happened and the occupation was beginning to get bloodier. I think the original plan was to go in, find WMDs, find Saddam, install Challabi and his gang and get out within 12-18 months.
The same thing happened in A’stan too, as the mission grew worse and bloodier the more ambitious our goals.
Yutsano
@salacious crumb: Clap louder. One day you’ll vanquish that vile woman I just know it!!
Mike in NC
@fuzz:
If I’m not mistake, Rumsfeld was actually looking at a draw-down of US forces from Iraq in roughly 90 days. How did that work out again?
Frankensteinbeck
@Mike in NC: and @fuzz:
I must argue that what happened was not moving of the goalposts. What happened was predictions based on neocon dogma rather than reality. The Bush administration actually believed that they could sweep in militarily, install a puppet, and leave. We would not just be ‘greeted as liberators’, but the people would be so grateful they’d immediately create a Western style Democratic government and elect exactly who we wanted of their own free will, doing anything we said from then on out of sheer love of America. Meanwhile, the rest of the Middle East would take one look at the sudden utopia of Iraq and beg to have the same done to them. Since this was going to happen, they didn’t need and told the Pentagon to scrap all post-invasion rebuilding plans.
Yes, this is fucking psychotic. It’s also the fundamental belief system of the neocons.
Zagloba
Apparently the wingnutsack is spreading around a faked quote purporting to be by Mursi, something about Jerusalem. If you run across it, it’s either a Breitbart Original or something they sourced from a rabid right-wing Israeli org.
Three shills try to talk it up here before the commentariat disassembles it.
Villago Delenda Est
@salacious crumb:
Wow. The stupid is strong with this one.
El Cid
The President Who Never Was supported the Muslim Brotherhood in outreach programs to the Muslim world.
But because there was no Republican President who preceded Barack Obama, this was an Obama administration policy somehow enacted before his inauguration, probably by the same ACORN / Kenyonesian / Bill Ayers conspiracy which managed to do all the other stuff which Obama made happen before he gained power.
Bubblegum Tate
@MattF:
Funny you should mention Singapore and caning. Here’s what one of my favorite wingnuts had to say about the verbally abused bus monitor:
Commenting at Ballon Juice since 1937
Let’s establish Rubio’s DREAM scheme in Egypt. Any Egyptian who joins the U.S. in an invasion of Egypt, gets to become a U.S. citizen. Egypt could become the 51st state.
bemused
Whatever will Michelle Bachman say? She already believes the Muslim Brotherhood has infiltrated our own government.
fuckwit
@MattF: Singapore is actually the future of global government, if we don’t fight like hell.
Singapore is a corporate-owned dictatorship. Its markets are very, very free, and its people are very, very not.
Capitalism and dictatorship go together much better than capitalism and democracy, unfortunately.
Southern Beale
Funny. Jim “Dim” Hoft has a picture of a Muslim woman waving her purple finger as part of his homepage.
Maybe we need to dig up some of those purple finger photos and ask these idiots who the fuck they thought was running for office in these countries.
karen marie
@gogol’s wife: He would, wouldn’t he? I don’t see the upside for Bibi or Romney in telling the truth about their relationship.
rikyrah
their country
their votes
don’t know if he’s Muslim Brotherhood, but, from what I’ve read, they put the boots on the ground there for years, garnering the respect of the ‘ little people’. so, if their candidate won, oh well.
not our business.
Paula
@rikyrah:
Can’t second that enough.
Nick
The results of this election just shows that the Egyptian voting system is rubbish. Morsi got less than a quarter of the vote in the first-round election, and the top four candidates were separated by only 7.5%. The two-round election only works when there are two or *maybe* three favourite candidates in the race.
That’s why instant-runoff voting is the best. You still end up with a consensus candidate, but they’re the consensus out of *all* the candidates rather than just the top two. So people are more likely to end up with someone who wasn’t their first choice but they still respect, rather than the one guy they didn’t want who is slightly less repulsive than the other guy they didn’t want.
pattonbt
Wheres Loko M_C Granger Chan Atredis?
If there ever was a post screaming out for her, it’s this one.
Cudlips!
Caz
Your hero Obama was cheering change and democracy in Egypt too, and now we have a muslim extremist in office there. He did the same thing in Libya, and likely will soon in Syria, unless his time runs out before it can be seen through.
Obama stuck his nose where it didn’t belong in those nations, and now they are replacing dictators that were good for us and bad for them with dictators that are bad for us and them. We ought to stay out of these foreign situations, and definitely should not be using military force against nations that have not provoked us. Aside from bombing countries that have not provoked us, it helps get rid of dictators that benefit the West for ones that become our enemies. Horrible foreign policy.
And Romney would do the same exact thing. The R’s and D’s are both war mongers these days, it’s sad. I’m thinking we should start thinking about removing the R/D dictatorship in this country first!! Perhaps a Gary Johnson is a good idea – he’d mind our own business at least.
Tony Alva
Wingnuts? I clearly remember the left getting wet that the new Obama diplomatic era giving rise to these Arab Spring events as much as the wingers and MSM. I’m neirther and was slightly optimistic about the Arab Spring as were you John. It was not just wingers…
Tony Alva
Wingnuts? I clearly remember the left getting wet that the new Obama diplomatic era giving rise to these Arab Spring events as much as the wingers and MSM. I’m neirther and was slightly optimistic about the Arab Spring as were you John. It was not just wingers…