The Freeh Report [pdf] on child abuse at Penn State is out and it appears that no punches were pulled:
The most saddening findings by the Special Investigative Counsel is the total and consistent disregard by the most senior leaders at Penn State for the safety and welfare of Sandusky’s child victims. As the Grand Jury similary noted in its presentment, there was “no attempt to investigate, to identify Victim 2, or to protect that child or any others from similar conduct except as related to preventing its re-occurrence on University property.”
Four of the most powerful people at The Pennsylvania State University – President Graham B. Spanier, Senior Vice President-Finance and Business Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno – failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade. These men concealed Sandusky’s activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky’s victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well-being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assulted in the Lasch Building in 2001. Further, they exposed this child to additional harm by alerting Sandusky, who was the only one who knew the child’s identity, of what McQueary saw in the shower on the night of February 9, 2001.
I typed that in from a protected PDF just for all of you who were crying over the unjust treatment of precious, sacred, humble, God-like JoePa every time someone posted about that fucking old sociopath. Fuck him and the rest of that bunch, and I hope the other three go to jail.
Crusty Dem
In before the “rush to judgement” and “lynch mob mentality” defenses. Fuck you and fuck Penn State football.
Nemesis
Jail for the three? Sure, lets do it.
And while we are at it, lets jail a few dozen of those child molesting priests who have been paid by the church to kinda fade away.
redshirt
Not defending anything or anyone, but want to say this is more transparency then we’ll ever see from the Catholic Church, sadly enough.
The Fat Kate Middleton
What you said … and Nemesis, too.
General Stuck
Penn State football was the perfect place for a clever pedophile to thrive. Attached to a program with bigger than life hero figures, connected to a money machine for the university that required a squeaky clean image to maintain. Sandusky just plugged his monster behavior into that for the protection he knew he’d receive from so much to protect by the powers that be.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
That sums things up nicely.
I have a friend, ten years younger than me. Known him since he was a Junior in HS. He’s now a public school teacher, 41 years old. PSU alum.
He and so many of them *still* don’t get it.
The fucking old sociopath got out before he lived to see his name so deservedly besmirched. Small solace that his family now gets to live with that old bastard’s legacy…and it sure won’t be related to his football “success”.
Once again, this proves that big-time college athuletics with no oversite and accountability will do the wrong thing, no matter what it is, each and every time.
PSU will be paying thru the nose over the lawsuits. And it still won’t be close what punishment the university, and those involved, deserve.
the Conster
The NCAA will be under pressure to give them the death penalty, from what I hear listening to sports radio. This is way worse than what SMU ever did.
Joey Maloney
This verson of the report is not protected. Cut’n’paste to your heart’s content.
Xecky Gilchrist
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage: Once again, this proves that big-time college athuletics with no oversite and accountability will do the wrong thing, no matter what it is, each and every time.
Agreed. I think we should nuke college football from orbit – it’s the only way to be sure.
Roger Moore
@redshirt:
Which mostly shows the relative power of Penn State Football and the Catholic Church. Penn State Football is an insular, authoritarian institution with a few million followers mostly concentrated in Pennsylvania but with a few spread around the rest of the USA. The Catholic Church is an insular, authoritarian institution with nearly a billion followers spread throughout the world, including tens of millions throughout the United States. Is it any wonder that one of them has been brought down to earth a lot faster?
steve jobs ghost
if on a mac, open pdf in preview, save as a new pdf from there, or a .ps file and re pdf with distiller. and wah-lah, the new pdf will not be protected.
srv
Having a guy known for a career of covering up debacles do the investigation just tells me he was put there to protect the institution and/or the Board. Don’t believe for a second the crap stops with those four.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@the Conster:
Showing my total ignorance here but does the NCAA a) have any jurisdiction over something like this in the first place?, and b) do they have any rules and regs covering something like this?
If not, there’s zilch they can do. I mean the SMU case was classic under-the-table-payments scandal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal
If nothing the NCAA currently oversees applies in this situation, it’ll beg the question will the organization and it’s members want to include something like this.
Again, I have no idea.
Zagloba
Jail for the three of them, and JoePa’s portrait gets thrown out of the Hall of Fame. Out the back door.
Spatula
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
I pretty much agree with this statement.
I also believe the same to be true of pretty much every organization/corporation/business ever known to man.
Is there some specific reason you think it’s worse in college football?
JPL
Defensive coach of the year retires honorably and applies for head coaching positions. He seems like the perfect candidate for UVA but all of a sudden they stop pursuing him. If I can speculate someone called them. Call football and AD coaches but not the fu.king police. Good job Penn State.
Scott S.
@the Conster: It’s definitely deserving. Smew just did recruiting violations. Nowhere near the level of shit that went on at Penn State.
If Penn State doesn’t get the death penalty, people need to ask the NCAA why they went so easy on them.
Spatula
@srv:
EXCELLENT point.
Cassidy
Seems the dead guy is taking the most blame. That’s convenient.
Not defending him by anuy stretch of the imagination. Just seems that the living had their stories straight for this investigation.
muddy
I don’t see that telling Sandusky that McQueary had seen him is such a big deal, Sandusky already knew that, they made eye contact at the time. I guess the putting him on notice part?
I have been thinking about this kid ever since I first read it. Who’s to say if that kid ever even made it home that night?
kd bart
Penn St needs to hire Bill Donohue so he can blame everything on the Jews in the NCAA.
reflectionephemeral
@Spatula:
I was going to make that same point. So Lord Acton said.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Spatula:
Not really. It’s no different than let’s say generations of one-party rule in a city. Theoretically in that situation, voters can “throw the bums out”. Universities, not so much which makes it harder to affect change or at least demand effective oversight of these programs because the theoretical “accountability chain” doesn’t lead back to some group that doesn’t have a vested (in this case money and reputation) interest in preserving the status quo.
Cassidy
@kd bart: Hell, these idiots could hire Tony Dungy and even he wouldn’t be able to polish their program.
So…how long before the firebaggers show up to tell us this is Obama’s fault?
Linda Featheringill
Power corrupts. Period.
MikeF
That fucking statue’s not still up is it?
Spatula
What I don’t get is, once these higher ups and Paterno knew what was going on, how could they possibly think it a good idea to allow Sandusky to carry on as before even with a reduced connection with the university?
They had to have worried that at some point it would all come out and there would be hell to pay with lawsuits and reputation, even if they didn’t have the humanity to address the welfare of the victims.
Why wouldn’t it have made business sense to force Sandusky completely out and force him to relocate, severing all connections with PSU at the very least? Perhaps as part of this require him to get regular counseling and treatment as well, under pain of which failure he would be turned over to legal authorities?
Just really short term, limited thinking it seems.
Captain Goto
I feel for geg6 right now. Everything gets harder for anyone trying to make an honest living at PSU. Reputations get soiled, and budgets get slashed as the bigwigs start looking for the cash to pay the inevitable (and justly-deserved) lawsuit settlements.
JPL
@MikeF: yup
They need to quietly remove it at night, in order to prevent rioting.
Cheap Jim
@Cassidy: Sure. It’s the William Casey maneuver.
robertdsc-iPhone 4
A nice Tomahawk missile strike on the PSU stadium would be nice. Any attempt to rebuild will bring another strike. Forever.
Violet
Appalling but not surprising. I hope they get what they deserve.
MosesZD
@General Stuck:
Sadly, this is so in most big football programs. Oh, it might not be child molestation, but you can be sure most of them have skeletons. If only their rank exploitation of college kids.
MosesZD
@kd bart:
Two thumbs up!
That was perfect…
red dog
Paterno was a catholic and I bet his priest knew of this shit and told Joe “don’t worry, we’ll cover for you”
JPL
@Captain Goto: Both of my former in-laws retired from PSU. It’s important to realize what the president did to improve the standards of the school. I’m not saying that his ass should not be put in jail for covering up but it’s important to separate football from the rest of the school.
Brachiator
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
Bullshit. There is, sadly, nothing special about big-time college athletics that makes them more likely than other institutions to circle the wagons and try to protect offenders.
This is shameful, but to try to pin some special blame because it’s college sports is just dumb and lazy ass axe-grinding.
@Spatula:
This is a very good point. The cover-up was clumsy in some ways, but depended, I think, on the idea that they felt that so many people loved Joe Pa and the football program that everything could be kept quiet.
Still, there is an odd blindness to Sandusky’s crimes and the possibility that he would offend again. So, here, the craziness is that these guys could not comprehend the magnitude of the offenses.
Cassidy
@JPL: “…but you fuck one goat…”
Anonymous At Work
Jailtime for the three is almost certainly not in the cards. They really broke no criminal law. However, conspiracy civil charges from the victims is almost certain, this report and all the other investigative work will bury the executives both personally and as agents of Penn State. While not likely, I’d be willing settle for modest amounts, attorney fees and preventing Paterno’s name from ever gracing a building, stadium or even toilet there.
Mr Stagger Lee
Truth is there is no University President at the big time schools with the cojenes to pull the plug on football, scandal or no.(Maybe Stanford, Duke or some high brow school) Hell schools are in a building the athletic department infrastructure arms race while making it harder for non athletic kids to complete their degrees or slashing programs.
The gods are in now destroying America while we are going mad with foam finger #1 signs.
artem1s
@Spatula:
no, no, no. their one and primary obligation was to turn over the information to the police immediately. outside of that they are all guilty of obstruction of justice and accessory to rape and corruption of a minor. The minute they decided to deal with Sandusky instead of the police they were conspirators. they had no legal authority to make a deal with Sandusky or decide whether a crime has been committed. That’s the DA’s job.
butler
@Mr Stagger Lee:
HA! Would that be the same Stanford which lowered their admission standards for football so that Harbaugh could get the players he needed to take them to 2 BCS games?
gvg
It’s none of the NCAA’s business. It is the LAW’s business, societies business but NOT the NCAA. By even bringing them into the discussion you are confusing and derailing the pursuit of the real penelties needed. This is a felony issue, a jail issue and has nothing to do with college athletics-well the NCAA might want to warn all the do nothing coaches off for life but they have no legal authority to put a predator in jail.
The NCAA is a volunteer athletic association whose purpose is to maintain fair play in sports. They have lots of rules to prevent “cheating”, they decide by committee what the game rules are, they decide who won championships etc. What they don’t do is substitute for the law.
It is our duty as citizens of society to look after kids, report crimes etc. some people don’t do that. They are bad. The LAW needs to punish them. Sports associations are not courts. People have multiple responsibilities, but some are higher than others. It sort of sounds like these fools didn’t even remember the decent citizen duty. They’ll have their chance to explain in court but I sure hope some reporters or prosecuters spell this out clearly enough to unconfuse people. It bothers e that so many people don’t differentiate between the NCAA and the police.
It’s not the crime it’s the coverup applies here…sort of. Sandusky did the first crime. If Penn State had just reported this to the police (not the NCAA for pete’s sake) there would have been a 7 days wonder scandal…sandusky would have gone to jail, Penn State would have gone on and in a couple of years it wouldn’t have been relevant. But they covered it up. that is the 2nd crime. I expect the investigation to take awhile longer but I think some of these big shots will go to jail. I also think some cardinal’s will end up in jail or fleeing the country but it will take longer….They made it a real PSU problem instead of a temporary news cycle.
butler
@Scott S.: It’s definitely deserving. Smew just did recruiting violations. Nowhere near the level of shit that went on at Penn State.
If Penn State doesn’t get the death penalty, people need to ask the NCAA why they went so easy on them.
Poison apples vs moldy oranges.
The NCAA has almost no interest in this and even less jurisdiction. They only care about things which threaten the mythical status as a “amateur” organization of “student athletes”. This is a criminal case which threatens neither.
If Sandusky was laundering money through his charity to give to recruits they would be all over it.
burnspbesq
@robertdsc-iPhone 4:
So now we’ve gone beyond advocating denial of due process to advocating mass murder.
Faaaaabulous.
Can I throw this back in your face the next time you bitch about drones?
The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.
Justin Morton
@butler: The NCAA is investigating this matter. And they can’t come back and say, “Hey, giving your player a free coupon to McDonalds violates collegiate rules, but raping children does not”.
Even if they don’t have jurisdiction over this matter, they’ll find it.
fasteddie9318
@Cassidy:
I’m sure a moral, upstanding Christian man like Coach Dungy would lead off with, “this only happened because of all those gay homo fags out there flouting YHWH’s Eternal Law against buttsecks” and go from there. He could staff the program with officials from the IFI.
Roger Moore
@Spatula:
They were thinking short term. If they admitted what had been happening, they knew there would be hell to pay, and they didn’t want to face it. Instead, they covered the whole thing up and hoped it would stay buried until it was somebody else’s problem. That kind of thing happens a lot.
Martin
I told you when this thing broke – these are policy officers of the university. There was no fucking way they didn’t know what was going on and no fucking way they were powerless to stop it.
Yeah, the whole lot should go to prison over this. Maybe other officials at other universities would get the message.
Hypatia's Momma
@Spatula:
Because sports are more important than healthy human lives.
Because the reputation of a university is more important than protecting children from a rapist.
Because society in general would prefer to expend energy on telling rape victims not to get raped, rather than demanding that rapists quit raping.
joes527
@Spatula:
Maybe because big-time college athletics is better at achieving the nirvana of no over-site or accountability than most. That explains why religions do it too. They are good at the no over-site thing themselves.
CarolDuhart2
@Brachiator:
Blackmail? Even with the implications of being an accessory, you would think that at the very least they would tell him to stay away. I mean, what if someone else had discovered Sandusky in a parking lot, say, and told the police? The scandal would have come anyway.
So I wonder if he was the only one molesting boys in that area. And I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more. Sports on all levels attract young boys and young men, and having an adult male around a pre-teen or junior high school boy isn’t uncommon and is rarely noticed. How many predators have become coaches just for that access?
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Brachiator:
And nowhere, repeat nowhere, did I say this was solely restricted to big-time college athuletics.
joes527
@burnspbesq:
Because some random asshole on the internet going hyperbolic about tomohawk missle strikes is exactly like actual drone strikes that kill civilians all the time.
Gex
Fuck anyone who is more concerned with respecting and honoring a “great man” who was made “great” for playing a fucking game while others WORK and being rewarded like a prince while others STARVE and deciding all of that is more important, has more value, than protecting kids from rapists.
Take that football and shove it up your ass. If you have trouble, we can get Sandusky to assist with that.
butler
@Justin Morton:
Its swell that you think that. I just think you’re setting yourself up for dissapointment.
This would be like expecting the SEC to investigate a company because their CEO is suspected of triple homicide and fine the company as a punishment. Of course murder is a million times worse than lying on an SEC form, but don’t expect the people who (barely) monitor financial crimes to do anything about it since its not their sandbox.
TooManyJens
@gvg: The NCAA is the infrastructure of Big Money College Sports, and BMCS is what provided the incentive to cover up Sandusky’s crimes. If they penalize the Penn State football program, they provide a counter-incentive to the next school that finds a pedophile on its coaching staff. I don’t see why that isn’t a reasonable counterbalancing action for them to take.
shortstop
@joes527:
Right. And in a thread about an institutional culture that supported and enabled and covered up child rape for years, zeroing in on some guy’s hyperbolic revenge statement is pretty telling in terms of where the commenter’s priorities lie.
Pleepa!
I’ll bet his priest also asked for pics.
Justin Morton
@butler:
Look, I agree with your argument. I just think there will be too much pressure on the NCAA to come out and say, “It’s not our thing.”
But, we’ll find out, I guess.
butler
@Justin Morton: Oh I’m sure they’ll “investigate”. I just don’t see what they can do conceivably do that would be consistent with their powers and past actions.
Crusty Dem
@burnspbesq:
Fuck you with a rusty pitchfork.
Cue the “And now people are advocating violent rape of critics” bullshit.
Catsy
@gvg:
It bothers me that you devoted nearly the entirety of your comment to refuting an argument nobody is making: that there is any confusion between the NCAA and the police, or that anyone thinks the NCAA should have any part of the legal proceedings.
From the NCAA’s perspective, a nontrivial chunk of the people running one of their members’ football programs were involved in covering up years of child abuse and knowingly building up a sexual predator as a hero for their organization. These are deeply unethical actions on an institutional level, and they are the actions of an institution that cares more about its sports success than its integrity or the law. If the NCAA doesn’t level some kind of sanction, it’s sending the message that it condones that.
gene108
@the Conster:
The NCAA is a trade organization.
They can only administer punishments to the rules the members of the trade organization have agreed to abide by.
I don’t think molesting children is one of the trade provisions college athletics agreed to use the NCAA to regulate, therefore I don’t know what basis they have to give them the death penalty.
For example, the NCAA has no subpoena power. If records aren’t given or are private, like a personal phone, the NCAA cannot compel the person to give up private records.
In the recent UNC-CH football investigation, it turned out former head coach Butch Davis never used his UNC-CH provided office or cell phone to make any calls while coach. He used his personal cell phone. A criminal investigation could probably subpoena those personal phone records. The NCAA cannot do anything.
I know there’s a lot of anger out there, rightly so, but I don’t want the NCAA to butt into things they don’t have any jurisdiction over.
jrg
Thank God. I was afraid BJ might make it through an entire thread about child rape without burnsie howling “JACKALOPE”!!!
Crusty Dem
@gvg:
Really, the NCAA has no say over whether coaches are raping children and covering up said rapes? I don’t know the entirety of their bylaws, but I don’t think I’m out on a limb to say they can act to punish those committing and covering up various forms of criminal activity by coaches at NCAA institutions.
dSmith
@burnspbesq: He didn’t say anything about firing a missile at the stadium when there were people in it.
JoyfulA
@Spatula: Re getting Sandusky out of town, at one point it was proposed that he start and run a football program at a PSU campus far away (Altoona, IIRC), but he turned it down; he would also be prevented from dealing with Second Mile.
So somebody actually did come up with a plan like that.
Spatula
@artem1s:
Maybe I should have been more clear: IF they were NOT going to do the right thing and turn the investigation over to the ocps immediately and instead chose to try to cover it up, why not at least, to cover their asses and avoid further damage, get rid of Sandusky and make sure there is no further contact with the university?
What possible benefit could there be in allowing him to continue to expose them to liability?
Just seems like stupidity as well as moral failure.
JoyfulA
@artem1s: The DA disappeared under odd circumstances 7 years ago and has just been declared dead.
The Other Bob
When does someone drive a truck into Joe P’s statue on campus?
Catsy
@gene108:
They don’t need it in this case. All of the damning evidence is a matter of public record, up to and including the criminal conviction of said child molester.
Really, it’s not like this is a case where there’s any barrier to having all the evidence.
As to your claims that this is out of their jurisdiction, see this:
Brachiator
@CarolDuhart2:
Very unlikely.
Sexual predators hide among normal people in any activities that involve their prey. There has been a big scandal in the Boy Scouts organization.
Again, there is, sadly, nothing exceptional about coaching.
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
Point noted. However, your statement,
is overly broad, ridiculous, and says nothing meaningful about this sexual abuse scandal. And since, as you note, this kind of thing is not restricted to big-time college athletics, what point were you trying to make about big time college athletics?
@gvg:
They also let Sandusky continue to have access to the campus and provided him with a cover of respectibility to commit further crimes and a place to do it.
This is more than a cover-up.
TooManyJens
Just saw this article on Twitter this morning. It’s 7 months old, but I don’t remember seeing it discussed here before.
The Other Penn State Cover-Up: Death Threats Against Black Students
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Cassidy:
Exactly. I have a feeling old’ Joe PA is going to be getting the lion’s share of the blame, up to and including knowing where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. Makes it so much easier and more convenient for the university that way. Especially once the lawsuits from the kids start rolling in — can’t sue a dead man for this kind of stuff.
Spatula
@JoyfulA:
Except that it sure seems ridonkulous that he would even be given the option to turn anything down…seems they would say “you go now or we turn you over to the cops.”
and my god, why would they event think of giving him another program. These people are more dumb than evil I think.
Gemina13
Amen for what you said about Paterno and the other shitheels.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
There’s a lot of stuff going around on sports talk radio that Joe Pa was so old and noodleheaded that he didn’t know what was going on, didn’t really understand the concept of sexual abuse, and generally should not be held responsible at all.
On the other hand, I don’t see the report as shielding the school from a boatload of lawsuits. I see some settlements coming, if not necessarily any jail sentences.
Catsy
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Uh, yeah. That’s because he’s, y’know, the guy who’s actually a convicted child molester.
Not saying these other guys deserve any breaks, but it’s not exactly inappropriate to heap the majority of the responsibility for this whole thing on the guy who actually did the child-raping.
TooManyJens
@Catsy: You’re mixing up Paterno and Sandusky.
sparrow
@MikeF: “It’s my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of a son of a bitch or another.”
gene108
@Catsy:
I don’t know what the NCAA can or cannot do, but from seeing other coaches violate the law, such as DUI’s, I’m guessing they don’t have much authority over coaches actions, if those actions don’t violate whatever by-laws they have about the things they govern.
I think the bunch at Penn State should follow the fate Msgr. Lynn.
Rommie
Short reason for the NCAA to give PSU Football a time-out: The school declined to report a suspected criminal (at the time, now proven) who committed one of the worst crimes imaginable to PROTECT THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM. More than once.
That’s far worse than anything a university has been punished for in the past, including SMU. The NCAA has some major explaining to do if PSU Football doesn’t get shut down for at least a season.
Having said all that, I do not expect it to happen right up to the moment they actually do it. Too much C.R.E.A.M. involved to think otherwise until and unless the NCAA finds a spine.
Catsy
@TooManyJens: So I am. I blame the lack of caffeine.
Marcellus Shale, Public Dick
i’m still amazed at how many sites on the web pissed themselves, cried for their mommies, and did everything they could to appease the angry penn st online mob that demanded suppression of reality.
Lyrebird
@Anonymous At Work:
Um, IANAL but perjury is a crime last I checked.
According to the emails attached to the Freeh report, all four men lied to a grand jury about what they’d known in ’98 and ’01.
Whether they’ll get convicted, I dunno, but they certainly broke the law, after of course abandoning whatever consciences they used to possess
TooManyJens
@Catsy: I did the same thing when the Sandusky verdict came down. I was confused for about half a day.
Nutella
@Roger Moore:
They were thinking that Sandusky was a nice, middle-class white man with a lovely family, just like themselves. “People like us” make mistakes and should be handled with kid gloves. Actual penalties are for those other, nasty, criminal types, that is, people not like us.
We see this all the time in white collar crimes and DUIs — these are crimes often committed by nice, middle-class white men with good jobs and lovely families so they get every excuse in the book for their ‘mistakes’.
The victims are unknown and unimportant to these people. Good ol’ Jerry got their compassion. The unknown poor boys he raped remained unknown and unconsidered because they just don’t exist to people like Stanier, Paterno, et al.
rb
@Hypatia’s Momma: Bingo. Harsh and depressing, but interactions between power and threats to power tend to be that way.
Keith G
Does all the chest thumping make the typers of such feel better? It since I’m reading so much of it here.
What I do know is that there is a bunch of boys who have had everything they know about sexualy and trust between humans warped in the most corrosive way. Chest thumbing will not make it go away.
Death Panel Truck
@Spatula:
For the same reason anyone does anything wrong: they don’t believe they’re going to get caught. They must have believed none of this would ever come to light.
El Cid
What’s a few children suffering sexual molestation versus a school’s win-loss ratio?
What has this nation come to when our priorities are so confused we act like the innocence of children and their protection from brute and sadistic harm is valued more than success in a big money sports endeavor?
LAC
@Cassidy: Don’t really give a shit about him taking blame. He went to his grave being lionized. The other asses have the rest of their lives to live with this shame. It’s about time some eyes were opened at PSU.
Schlemizel
BUT SPORTS BUILDS CHARACTER!!
As with all these fucking jock sniffing piles of shit – just win BAY-BEE! As long as the team was winning they could have been caught pecker deep in a 3 year old and there would have been a long line of people who would have gladly pretended nothing bad happened.
Now if we can only get a little sunshine on the child sex ring that is the Catholic church.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@butler:
The only school- with a big-time athletic department- that I could picture even entertaining the thought of killing off part of their program is the one that raised its g.p.a. requirements for its athletes about 20 years ago, effectively removing itself from the ranks of perennial contenders: Notre Dame.
And while N.D. might entertain the thought, I don’t think they’d do it, even if they didn’t have the NBC deal.
The Dangerman
Well, it’s nice to actually have some evidence for that conclusion now as opposed to some of the shit that was flying previously (Paterno just HAD to be guilty as he was the most powerful person at PSU, which is/was a total load of crap).
I still think Paterno’s superiors were the ones principally responsible here. If Paterno really was only interested in covering up, he did a piss poor job of it by telling his superions…
…but, mostly, it’s funny that of the hundreds (thousands?) of posts on this PSU matter, there were a precious few that were “fuck Spanier, fuck Curley, or fuck Schultz”. No, just as in the body of this post, only Paterno is singled out for blame. I’m sorry, but fact that shit. The buck stopped at the PSU President’s office, so fuck him especially.
OpalSky 42
@Nemesis: It
s more than time for pedophile priests to be booted from the safety of the sacristy to face jail for their actions. WAY past time. Everytime I read about the bishops’ council whining about loss of their precious freedoms because insurance companies need to pay for contraception for women, I’d like to slap them all with charges for aiding and abetting pedophiles. I guess the children in their parishes don’t need freedom from abuse, eh?
gene108
@Lyrebird:
PA made some changes to their sex abuse laws, so people covering up can get nailed:
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=8720375
Even if there’s no perjury found, given the case of Msgr. Lynn, I think the state has a good chance to successfully prosecute the bunch in Happy Valley.
@Schlemizel:
And money and power corrupt. When money and power intersect with character building activities, money and power tend to win out.
Crusty Dem
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
That’s fucking hilarious, as they actively cover up rape by their players. Can’t remember names right now, but google is your friend.
robertdsc-iPhone 4
@burnspbesq:
Read what I wrote again. The stadium itself should be destroyed. Not the players or the people. Penn State should never be allowed to play football ever again.
West Texan
@burnspbesq: How’s this?
Like the Hierarchy of the Catholic church and the world’s bankers and their political pals, these folks have shown their contempt for the rest of humanity. Jail’s too good for ’em. I’d fire everyone who hasn’t been fired already, shut down the footmaball team, plow over the stadium and salt the earth where it stood.
But that’s just me … I’m the most law and order librul you’ll ever find.
gene108
@El Cid:
What message would the NCAA handing the death penalty to PSU send to other organizations, i.e. religious institutions or schools, for example, that have had to deal with sex abuse issues with employees?
The NCAA has no authority over anything else but college sports.
I just don’t see the point in punishing people not involved.
Wouldn’t Spanier, et. al. going to jail send a message to other college Presidents that they need to make sure child abuse gets reported?
Wouldn’t this be a good time to push state legislatures to (a) remove the statute of limitations on child sex abuse claims, (b) make it easier to prosecute people involved in the cover up, and (c) make it easier for civil awards to be handed to the victims?
There’s a lot of energy that could be put to better uses than giving PSU football the death penalty.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@The Dangerman:
Continue deluding yourself that Paterno was anything but the de facto King of PSU at the risk of your own credibility.
Mike G
Gee, and I thought Division 1 college football was run with such high integrity and concern for all individuals, just like any other large business involving huge amounts of money.
geg6
@srv:
Please provide your evidence for this. I’d be very interested in seeing it.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Crusty Dem:
Do you mean this case?
(Please don’t skim past the section of the story titled Similar Cases in Notre Dame’s Recent History.)
BTW, I’m no N.D. fan. I’m partial to Meesheegun, where I could picture something quite like the PSU case going down quite similarly when Bo was still the head coach. I could see it happening in Ann Arbor in the future if some coach achieved iconic status. I’m definitely a cynic when it comes to college athletic departments and the power they have been allowed to wield.
Robin G.
So, correct me if I’m wrong, but Penn State is toast, right? There’s no amount they can settle with the victims that will be equivalent to what a jury would hand out. With this report, they’d have to auction off every last brick.
Cassidy
@Keith G: Feel better? Step on down of the imaginary high horse.
Cassidy
@LAC: I don’t give a shit about him either. I do care that others might get to squeak out of this and not pay for their complicity by heaping the blame on the dead guy.
BethanyAnne
So, I just saw this photo of JoePa’s statue being removed from the front of Beaver Stadium. https://twitter.com/PSU9371/status/223499992994811904/photo/1 Someone on twitter said that it shouldn’t be taken down completely, it just needs to be turned to be looking away.
Brachiator
@El Cid:
It ain’t just sports. It’s appalling at how easily people will sell children out when any beloved institution is involved.
@Robin G.:
I’m sure that there is a agreeable chunk of money that can be paid and still keep Penn State going. And alumni and boosters will happily cough up some bucks.
Lyrebird
@gene108:
Thanks for the info. Most of these liars and looker-awayers have families of their own, I think; so so so hard to imagine the levels of denial and betrayal here.
Agreed on this part as well:
I don’t think corrupt people get interested in stuff w/no power…
plug for someone else’s effort:
Some GOS diarists have started a scholarship fund for the survivors, search for tree climbers scholarship & you should get there.
Jay S
To all you folks claiming the NCAA doesn’t have jurisdiction, you might want to visit their web page. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2012/June/NCAA+statement+on+Penn+State
As I expected, there are broad rules that boil down to “conduct unbecoming” that may be brought to bear.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Lyrebird:
Really?!?! That’s a tactless name for the program, as in prison parlance a “tree jumper” is a child molester.
Crusty Dem
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Yep, thanks (I didn’t have time to look up), the poor girl was hounded by other students for daring to make an accusation (great for reducing the likelihood of other, future accusations), commits suicide, and then the player is “cleared” because the accuser is dead. Cleared is not the word I’d use.
In any case, I have about a billion strong family connections from near the top to the bottom at that cesspool of a University, and, to speculate, I’d be shocked if their response was better than Penn State’s (though they’d probably be better at the coverup).
gvg
@Catsy: Incorrect, several people in the thread before I replied D?ID make this argument and so are you right now. You are blaming the NCAA and college athletics in what you wrote and it’s not on target.
I also don’t think the the college athletics was really THE major motivator for this, but that is my judgment. I don’t even think other programs are going to be in the future more likely to cover up this no matter what the NCAA does. the reason is Sandusky is in JAIL, people are screaming at PSU and I still think the other powerful people who covered it up are also going to jail. The NCAA does not even have supena(sp?) power. The law is going to discourage any other program from doing this as long as it does its job/purpose. The NCAA is just not the right subject.
NCAA is supposed to punish dangerous plays, blow the whistle when a player fouls, prevent bribes and keep the sport clean in an athletic sense. It’s redundant for them also to pass “rules” that say no one should rape a child-that’s what the law is for.
I have been seeing JoPa as one of those generation who is so uncomfortable with the idea that sometimes adults like raping children, that other times a friend of yours, your “class/tribe” is actually a disguised monster that he was unable to process the info. Like the family member who doesn’t believe what the children tell her ….an enabler yes. I think we have to raise people to know that someday they may find out something like this and they have to face it. That rule has to be internalized before the need. It’s not an excuse for them, I’m just making a list of the things I have to teach my kids…
The bulk of my post was defending the NCAA because I don’t disagree with the harsh things said about the punishments that should happen to the cover up powers. Since I agree, I had nothing to say on that.
Crusty Dem
“Really, the NCAA has no say over whether coaches are raping children and covering up said rapes? I don’t know the entirety of their bylaws, but I don’t think I’m out on a limb to say they can act to punish those committing and covering up various forms of criminal activity by coaches at NCAA institutions.”
No as a matter of fact the NCAA doesn’t have ANY say over weather coaches are raping children…that is the GOVERNMENTS business. The NCAA is just an organization with no authority on these kinds of things. It is sufficient that the LAW exists. The courts and the police must deal with this. You wouldn’t expect a plumbers association or the American Rose Society to deal with a member who turned out to be a criminal? The NCAA is NOT a government agency.
Lyrebird
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Whoops, that’s unfortunate.
iiuc, the people putting it together are also child-abuse survivors, and I don’t think any of their perps did any prison time.
I really do hope that the small amount of justice handed down w/those 45 convictions is just the beginning of the good dividends that come to Sandusky’s victims. Those young men who took the stand showed A LOT OF GUTS. Pardon cliched phrasing. And the smoke getting in my eyes…
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Crusty Dem:
So what about all of the other recent cases laid out in that article? The ones in which N.D. booted athletes- even those who were found not guilty?
I’m close enough to South Bend to have heard the stories. My favorite is the one about the NFL HoF qb who burned down his dorm room/suite during his time at N.D.. Whether it happened or not, I think the administration started moving in the right direction in the ’90s, shoring up their policies in order to keep the athletic department on the straight and narrow, to the point that they’ll never have a consistently competitive football team again until the rest of the large, athletically dominant universities adopt the same sorts of policies. I’m not saying that N.D. is perfect, either- it mortals are involved.
Jay S
@gvg: I think the NCAA disagrees with you. Follow the link in my comment at 3:52. They are asking PSU to show how it did not violate specific parts of the bylaws.
Mayken
@Hypatia’s Momma: This! A thousand times.
Keith G
@Cassidy: Thanks for the rather shallow estimation of my concern.
Outrage is easy. Long after some commenters here have moved on to other topics, there will those boys (and many others of both genders) struggling to make sense of how their lives are different than they should have been.
My hope that if this sad episode really and truly sparks genuine emotion in each of you, that you find a way to reach out to the providers of community counseling resources. They never have enough money or volunteers.
As a four year old, I spent some time as the plaything of a caregiver’s teenage son. It leaves a mark. Professional help is essential.
I hope that horse was not too high.
shortstop
@Keith G: With or without the personal addendum, I wish you’d just said it like this the first time — it was more likely to get the results you’re looking for.
Kathy in St. Louis
I read the first 50 statements here and no one seems to think what I think. I think they went to Sandusky and confronted him about this and threatened to turn him over to authorities. He, in turn, because he knew where all the violations of NCAA rules were hidden, steroids, kickbacks, under the table payments, etc., and since it was his life, reputation and career on the line, he threatened them right back with disclosure of everything he knew about the underside of their precious program. If a guy would rape kids, he certainly wouldn’t be above blackmailing them into the keeping the lid on this. The sad part is that if this did happen, there wasn’t a person there with real backbone.
Another face in the crowd
Please send all your lipstick to Jay Paterno. The pig is getting bigger by the minute and the lipstick isn’t covering very well.