Some of you have been sending me McCain’s 2008 Romney opposition file [pdf], perhaps because it’s been on Reddit or Facebook or something like that recently. It’s been out since at least January, and as far as I know, there’s nothing new related to his tax returns or Bain in the file. But you can treat me like a fool if I’m wrong.
By the way, for what it’s worth (not much), I think the reason that he hasn’t released his tax returns is that his tax rate approached or equaled zero for a couple recent years.
Handy
Not the McCain oppo – just a compilation of docs by a third person
MikeJ
New Obama ad. Has Romney paid any tax at all?
MikeJ
Grrr. FYWP. No mod words that I see, and yet there I sit.
zattarra
That’s where the Obama campaign is going in their latest ad also.
amk
Obama campaign’s new ad on mitt’s I-put-out-as-much-as-we’re-gonna-put-out tax-returns.
amk
Now youtube linkys are persona non-grata here ?
MattF
Well, y’know, “Coward, liar, plutocrat, etc…” so there’s an excellent chance that there’s stuff in the tax return that’s at variance with reality. And, I don’t think the IRS likes to be embarrassed. A tax lawyer I knew distinguished between ‘expensive’ problems and ‘go to jail’ problems– it wouldn’t surprise me if Romney is hovering over the area in there. Also a possibility that there are traces of deals that are a couple of degrees of separation from stuff that’s really ugly.
In any event, so long as Mitt’s cost/benefit analysis continues to yield the answer “Don’t release the returns”, the suspicion of bad stuff in there will only increase.
JPL
My guess is when Bain said they would pay him at least 100,000 as CEO, we could see a zero added to that number…
edit..he’ll release a few more years but not the 1999 to 2002 time frame..
PeakVT
Here’s some weak oppo on Romney mega-donor Sheldon Adelson. I don’t think there much to it (yet), but it does raise the question of what happens if a mega-donor starts to stink. They’re not donating directly to the official Romney campaign, but the association is still strong. How many groups can afford to give back $1 million or more, if they are even willing?
JPL
@PeakVT: IOKIYR
Quincy
Count me among the adherents to the zero tax rate theory. It might be survivable on its own, but as the candidate of the party that wants to cut taxes on the wealthy while Obama is campaigning on raising them, it’s deadly. He’d have to alter the Republican platform to stay viable. And that’s the one plank they won’t alter under any circumstances, they’ll get a new candidate first. Which is why he’s really going to try to get away without releasing them. Obama can’t let him get away with it. The media will get bored with the tax story so the Dems have to keep pounding it.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@Quincy:
Count me in on this. I doubt there’s anything remotely illegal in there, I’m sure it’s all on the up-and-up. But, it’ll be an excellent case study in how the rich can work the tax code so as to avoid paying any taxes. If there’s one thing Rmoney has focused his entire life on doing (aside from running for President), it’s to reduce his “tax burden”.
And after an economic collapse that had all of us screaming at guys like him to “JUMP YOU FUCKERS!”, it’s gonna look bad to all the rubes who continue to vote against their economic self interest to see a guy pulling the shit Rmoney does on his taxes. The political equation for him in this economic environment as it relates to his taxes probably is suicide.
And he’s too lousy a politician to spin it otherwise.
Win-win really. He releases them and it’ll be open season. If he doesn’t, and the Dems keep brutally hammering the issue, it’ll be the “what is he hiding” question between now and November.
Tokyokie
@PeakVT: Nobody makes billions in the casino industry in Macau by operating aboveboard. The industry and the locale have always both been awash in corruption. I just figured that was a given. Sorta like being in trash hauling in Jersey back in the day.
Nylund
Given the tax debates we’re having as a country these days, I think the only thing worse than paying near zero in taxes illegally, is doing it legally. It sort of throws a wrench in the whole “Taxed Enough Already” story the GOP is trying to tell about our job-creating Galtian overlords.
PeakVT
@JPL: That’s probably how it will turn out, though the rule isn’t working all that well for Romney at the moment.
PsiFighter37
There has to be more. If they don’t want to bite the bullet on a zero tax rate…nah, there’s DEFINITELY something else (or more than just one thing) that R-Money doesn’t want to be seen.
lol
I’ve fond of the “Romney hasn’t been tithing 10% to the Mormon Church” theory myself. Anything else could be survived.
amk
Twitter
Another Halocene Human
@amk: Wow, that was quick. From the blogosphere to OFA’s ears.
What is Rmoney’s response to that?
I hope he does something rash and stupid.
ABloomquist
When discussing this with friends, I’ve told them that I will apply the same logic used with the President’s birth certificate: assume the worst. So, until Gov. Romney proves otherwise, I am assuming that his tax returns reveal that he made his money tricking Alzheimer’s Patients into funding Puppy Mills. Prove me wrong Governor!!!1!!
Another Halocene Human
@lol: You know, I doubt that. For all we know he gave them sweetheart underpriced stock too that financed their big real estate projects. I know the profits (not a typo) love him to bits.
The thing about the Mormons is that some Mormons are more equal than others. Kind of a Catholic Church lite.
waynski
@PsiFighter37: I’m with you. I think it’s more than one thing.
amk
A report commissioned by the G20 group of the world’s biggest economies has warned oil prices could be vulnerable to a Libor-style rigging scandal.
According to the International Organization of Securities Commissions (IOSCO), the current system of oil price reporting is “susceptible to manipulation or distortion.”
jrg
I don’t think it has to be more than one thing. I don’t even think it has to be a 0% tax rate (or even money back from the government).
Single digits alone would be deadly, IMO.
Calouste
@Quincy:
That’s why Obama is shifting the narrative from “Romney won’t release his tax returns” to What is he hiding?”. And the next step will be “Is he hiding….?” And Romney can’t reply now without releasing the returns.
Lol
@Another Halocene Human:
It won’t matter that they love him now for giving $10 million a year if they find out he was supposed to be giving them $20 million. He’d be cheating them out of *their* money.
drew42
I predict that, because of insane tax loopholes created during the Bush administration, there was a year where Romney somehow had negative income taxes.
jibeaux
I agree that it’s probably most likely what it is. I don’t think any non-Mormons care about the tithing issue, and at any rate if that were it I can’t see that as being such a big deal that it’s worth all the speculation. What it boils down to is that the Democrats can talk for the better part of a year about WHY won’t he release them, everyone else has done it going back to, ahem, George Romney, who sent 12 years worth out in the world with the message that he had nothing to hide and if he’d only sent one it would look like he had something to hide. So whatever it is, it’s got to be worse than listening to that speculation and attacks for months and months, and that’s got to be worse than insufficient tithing.
eric
The thing that has me most curious….it is one thing to think you have the other guy on the run, but it is another thing to know that you can do it with impunity. Given the way the OFA folks are pushing this so hard, I would bet they know what is in those tax docs. Romney is not universally loved and I would bet that the info in those tax returns went to the OFA folks.
BTW, I am now thinking it is that the $100k “retainer” is way low, by perhaps a factor of 100. i think that there are other things, too (perhaps tithing, planned parenthood donations), but given the way the Obama people also pushed the missing Bain years, I am thinking there is a link and they know it is toxic (not just think it is toxic).
EconWatcher
So far, the Obama campaign is like a work of art, with an overarching theme and a carefully orchestrated series of attacks that are building to some kind of dramatic revelation. For those who wanted John Edwards’ “Two Americas” campaign, you’re getting a better and more sophisticted version of it. It’s as if Obama is slowly, teasingly pulling back the curtain to reveal all the dirty little secrets of the ultra-rich. And the Republicans gave him the perfect target to do it.
Neal peart
Someone needs to ask Mitt if he filed his foreign bank account disclosure form on or before June 29th. My hunch is that Mitt participated in the IRS amnesty program in 2009. Or he paid no taxes in many years.
Skerry
@eric: @eric: The $100k figure is a floor, not a ceiling for Mitt’s retainer. I think in reality, it is probably an order of magnitude larger.
eric
@Skerry: I agree. But i think it is closer to $1M and that is toxic…I have no info, but I think there is a tie-in between Bain and the taxes.
Legalize
@PsiFighter37:
Stericycle
MattF
@eric: There’s a plausible theory that the big money from Bain went into that mysterious IRA. The theory is that since Romney was Bain sole shareholder he defined the market for Bain shares, and those shares, undervalued by a huge factor, went into the IRA. Then when Romney left Bain the shares were revalued to market, and, due to being in the IRA, the huge capital gains were tax-sheltered. Rather neat, actually. See Henry Blodget and Felix Salmon for details
eric
@MattF: whatever it may be, I think Obama’s people know what it is. They are very confident that Romney cant push back in a meaningful way…hence we got the retroactive retirement. You argue with the tax returns you have, not the tax returns you wish you had.
Palli
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
American culture nurtures a deep belief in the righteousness of the “Horatia Alger” myth. American capitalism evolved through years of enslaved and under-paid labor. The consumer culture that sustains the economy condones advertising hypocrisy tinged with racism, sexism, greed and envy.
When can we use the word “immoral” to describe an individual like Romney whose sense of self-worth exceeds a sense of respect for the Family of Man?
Hoodie
@Skerry: The $100k thing is a red herring, that was just a formality to show outside investors and partners that Romney was still in the game. Romney was the sole shareholder of Bain, and that’s where the real money is. It likely a combination of everything, because Mitt is that kind of anal compulsive.
geg6
@EconWatcher:
THIS.
It’s beautiful. Never thought I’d live to see such a thing. The hilarity continues.
smintheus
The most interesting thing, for me, in the McCain oppo book is the section on Damon Corp., which was fined for Medicare fraud it committed during the Romney years. This was reported by the Boston Globe back in 2002 but somehow Romney survived and won his race for governor. It hasn’t gotten much attention since then, though over the weekend I finally managed to interest a high profile reporter in re-examining the story.
Among other things, it involves (a) Romney/Bain submitting fraudulent SEC filings when they sold Damon (filings didn’t note that Damon could face substantial fine for Medicare fraud); and (b) Romney lying about what he did in those years (he claimed falsely that he had put a stop to the fraud before he sold Damon).
So not exactly new, but potentially a huge scandal if the public hears about this on top of everything else.
Palli
@Palli: so sorry Horatio Alger
The Alger myth is enduring camouflage that prevents the population from understanding
how democratic socialism could evolve in our culture.
The Bobs
A commenter over at Brad DeLong’s place made an interesting point. What if Romney had been caught in the UBS (Swiss bank)scandal? About three years ago, UBS was caught assisting about 4,500 wealthy American’s avoid paying taxes using such methods as having bankers transfer funds out of the USA by carrying diamonds. The people who were caught had to pay their taxes and a fine, but their names were not released publicly.
If Mitt was involved, he is a tax cheat, not just an avoider. If he was involved, Obama knows it. No way he can release returns that show him to be a cheat. Also, since this happened after the 2008 primaries, it would not have been in the returns seen by McCain, and those returns seen by McCain may have been fraudulent.
maya
Next Mitt defense/offense stradjity: “Show me Chelsea Clinton’s tax return”!
waynski
@The Bobs: I remember that and I brought it up here during the primary fight over his returns, but thanks for pointing it out again. Nobody here at BJ seemed to give it much attention back then, but I still think this is very likely the smoking gun (or one of many). And it’s certainly something Obama would know about. He’s not allowed to go rummaging through opponents’ tax returns, but a settlement report on a massive IRS enforcement action would certainly have crossed his desk — with Willard’s name appearing on the list. There’s confidentiality surrounding those settlements with the govt., so Obama can’t say anything himself, but they should push the press to ask the questions. And I bet they are, or they will if the press doesn’t get there on their own.
Gypsy howell
@amk:
And THIS is how you use the bully pulpit. Advertising works. Attack those motherfuckers every day on TV. I wish the administration would saturate the airwaves attacking specific congressmen every time a crucial vote comes up. That would get people’s attention.
RareSanity
@drew42:
I’m starting to think this as well. I’m thinking that this idiot, knowing that he was going to run for President, could not resist a series of tax loopholes that ended with Uncle Sam owing Willard money. Can you imagine Romney (and the GOP at large), having to answer the question of why they rail against soshalizm, when there are “wealth transfers” coming from the middle class and lower, going directly (as opposed to indirectly through government services) to the richest Americans?
IMHO, it would completely destroy any further arguments by the GOP for lower taxes, for the foreseeable future. There would be no way to spin their way out of it.
Here we have a man, that is one of the supposed “job creators” that need tax cuts to create jobs. Not only does he raid the companies that his firm acquires, leaving the company in ruins, and thousands out of work, he outsources any of the jobs that may still exist to China and India. Furthermore, not only does he pay zero in taxes (therefore not needing any further reduction in taxes) due to the tax code and his ability to hire the finest tax lawyers and accountants, he receives a fat check, full of tax dollars from the government for doing absolutely nothing.
By asking to have Mitt Romney’s taxes lowered even further, you are asking the taxpayers, to write Mitt an even bigger check, directly from the U.S. Treasury.
I think the Obama campaign knows this, and I think that they probably have proof it, and Willard knows that they’ve got the goods on him. The only prudent thing to do, would be for Willard to make a pre-emptive strike, and try to get a jump on shaping the narrative.
But he won’t do it…he’s too fucking arrogant. He, like John Gotti, think they’re Teflon…untouchable, and he’s going to take the GOP down with him.
I could think of a more deserving couple, to be in the initial stages of a long, drawn out and public, (figurative) murder-suicide.
ETA: mistermix, I may have been the cause of the furry of the McCain oppo doc. I posted a comment about in a thread yesterday…sorry.
I just thought it was an example of how much, even people in the GOP, hate Willard Mitt Romney.
third of two
@eric: Question: does President Obama have the capacity to, legally, view Mitt Romney’s tax returns? I am not saying he can use the information contained therein, which seems doubtful…just wondering whether or not he has access to Romney’s returns on file at the IRS.
curiousleodog
@smintheus: Florida didn’t care that their current governor defrauded Medicare (prior to his election) so do you really think they’ll care about Romney owning a company that did that?
RareSanity
@curiousleodog:
It’s hard to compare what happened in a gubernatorial election, to that of a Presidential election. You don’t get constant, 24hr a day updates, in every major media outlet, national and local, with gubernatorial elections.
News about Presidential elections is everywhere all the time. In addition, the resources available to Presidential campaigns dwarf those of gubernatorial ones.
There’s more money, more access to media, more exposure, and just generally more attention paid where you’re talking about running for POTUS. That same Florida governor, would have absolutely no chance of ever obtaining the office of POTUS, with a blemish like that on his record.
WaterGirl
I think we’ll be treated to a hat trick, at least, if we get to see Romney’s tax returns.
#1
I think he hasn’t been tithing his full 10% to the Mormon church.
#2
I think he was caught as part of the UBS thing someone mentioned above, and it will be undeniable that he is a tax cheat.
#3
I think some of his effective tax rates may well have been at 0% or worse, the government has paid him money.
I don’t think he will ever release those tax returns.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
I want to know what State Mitt claimed to reside in on his federal tax forms for the two years prior to his run for Governor. And also, did he pay MA state income tax for those two years?
IMO, this is more about how he very well might have run for MA Gov fraudulently.
I find myself wishing that there had been more aggressive pushback ten years ago… where was this Bain info back then? But parts of the local media here (esp. talk radio) have been in the tank for Romney since at least 1994, so the issue wasn’t really explored back then.
redshirt
@third of two: I don’t think so legally. I’m sure Nixon did it back in the day though, and who knows who else.
curiousleodog
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: Did he have to show Mass. state tax payments to establish residency for his gubernatorial run? That’s pretty sloppy of Mass., if he didn’t.
@RareSanity: I’m sure you’re right. I’m equally sure there’s a significant chunk of the electorate would vote for Romney over Obama even if they had hard proof Romney himself (not just a company he owned) cheated Medicare. ::shrug::
Maude
When does Romney come out and say, I’m not a crook?
RareSanity
@redshirt:
I think you’re right. IANAL, but I would think something like that would require a subpoena, and I don’t think “campaigning” would be suitable justification for a judge issuing one.
However, I think we all know that there are many, very knowledgeable, “little birdies” in Washington D.C., that are in the ear of people all the time.
I personally think, the pressure from the Obama campaign to release more tax returns, is based on the fact that a “little birdie” told them that their was some non-trivial dirt contained in them.
I always go back to Pres. Obama being a lawyer by trade, then I refer to my vast knowledge of the law as shown on T.V. (don’t want to disrespect people that actually know the non-teevee version of the law), that as a lawyer, you never ask a question you don’t already know the answer to.
Obama and his team would not be pressing this issue, if there was a chance that it could turn out like Geraldo opening Al Capone’s vault.
In other words, there’s some there, there.
The Moar You Know
@amk: Biggest unreported story out there. When we find out how much and for how long the traders have been raping us at the pumps, things will get real ugly.
Oh wait, that would be in some other nation. We’ll just shrug and take another swig out of our Super Big Gulps of Apathy.
Xenos
Is this not a bit of a weird way to set up what was, essentially, a partnership in a joint venture with a consulting firm? Underneath the corporation owned by Romney must have been a complex structure of interlocking contracts… has anyone ever sorted all this out?
Palli
I hope this argument about Romney tax returns-and an eventual disclosure-is so extenuated that it serve as the workbook for the second Obama administration and a new Congress’ revision of the tax code?
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@curiousleodog:
There was a move to keep him off the ballot, but as I said there were many influential forces here in the tank for him. BTW this CNN article from a few days ago jibs with what I personally remember: The story was that Mitt had technically left Bain in 1999, but was flying back for business & family often enough to qualify for residency.
I don’t remember if he released tax forms in 2002, much less how many if he did.
Yes, it’s a blue state, but once you get outside the major urban centers (Boston-metro, Worcester, Springfield, etc) the old suburban folks and white working-class are Republican by default.
And they are very low-info Republicans indeed (thanks to local radio and tv). WBZ Radio will spend 12 minutes talking about fucking baseball… but I haven’t heard the word “Bain” during drive-time once.
The Bobs
@waynski: Yes, it happened on Obama’s watch, he certainly knows. The government was very nice to the crooks by not releasing their names to the public. I wonder who made that decision?
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
FYWP disappeared my CNN link, but I found this from the Boston Globe in 2002. Key Romney quote:
I’m starting to realize that the reason Romney honestly thinks he can weather out Bain and the tax-issue between now and November is that he managed to do that here a decade ago.
PeakVT
@third of two: I’m fairly sure its not legal for President to ask to see anyone’s records, though various executive branch agencies certainly can access them through one legal channel or another in the course of an investigation. However, it would be entirely unethical for the President to try to see an opponent’s records, and mind-bendingly stupid. Obama and his team are not even remotely close to being so stupid as to try to get access to them in that way, or any illegal way.
smintheus
@curiousleodog: FL is FL. I think most of America will care that he ran a crooked company and lied about it afterwards.