Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

This chaos was totally avoidable.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Republicans in disarray!

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Petty moves from a petty man.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Everybody saw this coming.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Future is Wide Open

Reader Interactions

106Comments

  5. 5.

    gbear

    I just want to say that nothing sucks more than the first four weeks of a new depression medication. Let’s just throw everything out of whack and see if it settles in a better place in two months…

  6. 6.

    Linda Featheringill

    I’m still happy about the underground water found in Namibia.

    The future of the human species hasn’t looked good for a while and I was concerned about extinction or even near extinction, with accompanying destruction of culture. [Yes, I’m just full of happy thoughts.] But with this cache of clean water, a bunch of humans will likely survive in spite of what the rest of the world does.

    People who write scary predictions about the effects of climate change nearly always talk about damage done by migratory pressures by ecology refugees. This source of water won’t solve everything everywhere but it certainly will ease the migratory pressures in Africa.

    We humans are pretty crappy but this is what we are and I’d like to think that we’ll continue for a while.

  9. 9.

    gnomedad

    A question for the gun-knowledgeable: one of the standard responses to a mass shooting is that if only more citizens had been carrying, someone could have taken the shooter out. To which the response is that more people could die in the crossfire from people with no training in “stress situations”. My question is: do we know of any actual instances of civilian “friendly fire”? My guess is that untrained people would be most likely to freeze or flee in such a situation.

  10. 10.

    redshirt

    The future is… now. No… now! No…. now!

    Funny thing – from a certain point of view, there’s no such thing as the present. How would you define it? It’s already gone. Only the future and the past exist in any definable way.

  11. 11.

    jeffreyw

    Out in the garage, roasting coffee before the temp gets into the hundreds, the bastard. Cranking Pandora on the laptop with some cheap Logitech speakers. Currently: Kenny Wayne Shepherd, …now the Doors Roadhouse Blues. This one never gets old!

  12. 12.

    PeakVT

    @Linda Featheringill: This source of water won’t solve everything everywhere but it certainly will ease the migratory pressures in Africa.

    Probably not. The water isn’t where most people are. Namibia’s population is only 2.1 M.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    @redshirt:

    Only the future and the past exist in any definable way.

    If so, why couldn’t you define the present as any time that is not the future or the past?

    @jwb:

    I found that article too vague to be helpful to my understanding of the extent of the problem.

  14. 14.

    Rommie

    Penn State is supposed to get hammered by the NCAA tomorrow. They *should* shut down the football program for X amount of time, but I’ll have to concede that if they strip enough scholarships and ban PSU from TV and the postseason long enough, it’s almost the same thing. But it damn well better be a boot in the ass or they can just throw the rulebook out the window.

    If they also let players transfer without having to sit out a year, the exodus will begin. It would put the Big Ten in a position that was impossible to consider just 9 months ago.

  16. 16.

    muddy

    @gnomedad: The back of magazines such as Guns and Ammo have millions of stories, all self-reported, and very likely made up. I think if they want to make those claims they should have to file a police report, so it’s not just some wanker writing in. “Dear Penthouse, oops I mean Guns and Ammo, I was sleeping in my bed, and when the rapist got in next to me I quickly went to my gun safe, got out my gun and loaded it, then I went back to the bedroom where the rapist waited, and I told him he was gonna die tonight if he didn’t leave immediately. He was terrified and jumped out the window. Thank god I had my gun. You never hear about *these* stories in the lamestream media!”

  17. 17.

    Professor

    As a matter of interest: Has Wayne La Pierre of NRA made any comment on the Aurora shooting or offered any condolences to the victims?

  19. 19.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @jeffreyw:

    Out in the garage, roasting coffee before the temp gets into the hundreds, the bastard. Cranking Pandora on the laptop with some cheap Logitech speakers. Currently: Kenny Wayne Shepherd, …now the Doors Roadhouse Blues. This one never gets old!

    Sounds like you’re into DIY. Some of the most mind blowing coffee I’ve ever had we roasted in an old popcorn popper. Made me want to go spit on a Starbucks.
    Concerning music and DIY, pretty soon I’ll have a new Project up at Make Magazine on how to build a great powered ‘computer’ speaker from a wooden cigar box and Radio Shack parts. It sounds so good I didn’t want to ship it off to the magazine. Now I need to build another one of those for myself.

  23. 23.

    Linda Featheringill

    @redshirt: #10

    The future is… now. No… now! No…. now!

    Bless you! The scary thing is that I understand what you’re saying. Ooooh.

  24. 24.

    Linda Featheringill

    @PeakVT: #12

    The water isn’t where most people are.

    But the water is where people will choose to locate themselves.

  26. 26.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @gnomedad: The problem is with the poorly trained folks who don’t believe they are. In Tucson, I believe two armed bystanders nearly shot one another in belief they had drawn on the bad guy gunman.

    I think there have been a couple of instances where LEOs shot an armed person who wasn’t the bad guy, but have no quick citations. One, IIRC, was an off duty LEO who had drawn on the actual bad guy, but responders couldn’t ID who was which, and he was shot.

    I could bang on at length about why it’s a bad idea for folks without extensive training to wander around armed, but I’ll spare all of us.

  27. 27.

    muddy

    Here’s a true story of how helpful a gun would be in a scary situation. Years ago I had a roommate who was the biggest gun nut I’ve ever met, and I know plenty. He went to school in Colorado to become a gunsmith. He was a Bircher, and full of very silly conspiracy theories. He kept saying I needed a gun in the nightstand, just in case. This is in a really safe rural area, and on an island, so people can’t readily run away. I said I wasn’t having it, nor should he have any lying about as my son was 7, and that was not on.

    One night I am sleeping (light sleeper), and I hear some fumbling about in the hallway. At first I thought it was him, drunk and bouncing about. Then I hear a whisper, “Where’s the light switch?” This was gun nut’s house, he knows where the light switches are. I sat up in bed, grabbed the lamp as a weapon, and thought, “Maybe I should have put a gun in here, oh noes!” I did not turn on the lamp as I wanted to surprise the intruder. The door bursts open, and it was these 2 other friends of ours (also gun nuts), who came over all wasted late at night because it was the birthday of one of them. “Hurhurhur We sure scared you, Muddy!”

    I told them how roommate wanted me to have a gun at the bedside, and it was good I did not have it, as I may well have shot the silhouette of the intruder, and it would have gone through and hit them both. The birthday was on April Fools. Would not have been a funny prank if I killed my best friend’s husband!

    Instead of being shot, they were flayed to the bone by the sharp edge of my tongue (I’m told this is quite terrifying when I get on a roll). They were lucky. And so was I, assholes though they were, I would not want to kill someone for such a stupid reason.

  28. 28.

    Amir Khalid

    @Hypatia’s Momma:
    And still, even after being exposed as a party to the cover-up of Jerry Sandusky’s crime against children, and to the continuation of those crimes, Paterno had supporters who protested the removal of the statue.

  35. 35.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @jeffreyw:

    Need a speaker tester? I would gladly detach these Logitechs and give yours a good trial.

    Thanks, but the speaker and a load or spare parts went off to California for teardown and duplication in a video.

    We have developed a sophisticated speaker testing methodology for all DIY audio builds. We play Rockpile’s Seconds of Pleasure and if Play That Fast Thing… makes us dance the speaker passes. Otherwise back to the drawing board. If it doesn’t Rock it’s not worth having.

    How do you roast your coffee?

  37. 37.

    Haydnseek

    @Professor: Not that I know of, and it doesn’t matter anyway. They just lay low, knowing that the media attention span is short, follow up will be non-existent, and in a few days it will be business as usual.

  40. 40.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @Haydnseek:

    Not that I know of, and it doesn’t matter anyway. They just lay low, knowing that the media attention span is short, follow up will be non-existent, and in a few days it will be business as usual.

    The MSM knows the NRA is a hard target and is too much trouble to go after. They’ll look elsewhere for their stories.

    Gun supporters will dismiss the Colorado killer as one bad apple. Sure he is, but any apple in the huge barrel is capable of rotting and you can’t tell which one.

  41. 41.

    Ben Franklin

    “If corporations are people, why isn’t Romney in prison for murder?”
    — unknown origin

    H/T Joe Cannon

  43. 43.

    Linda Featheringill

    @PeakVT:

    So how does it ease migratory pressures in Africa?

    It gives people another place to go, splitting migratory pressures in the first place.

    Also, it is located under the driest country in Sub-Saharan Africa. It lends support to what is probably the most vulnerable area and could stem the beginning of the stampede of ecology refugees.

    If the aquifer would supply water to 800,000 people for 400 years, then [in theory anyway] it would serve 3.2 million people for 100 years. That would have to have an effect.

    Also, if the world in general goes straight to hell and only 3+ million people survive, we could rebuild.

  44. 44.

    John M. Burt

    Even the sky should not be considered the limit. In fact, just as there is no present, there is no sky: just a bluish haze of air that thins out a short distance from the surface.

    Outer space begins at the soles of our feet, and one day we will notice it, and go spilling out in all directions. One little planet is not room enough for a species like ours, especially if we want to share it with any other species.

  45. 45.

    Ben Franklin

    @RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:


    Gun supporters will dismiss the Colorado killer as one bad apple.

    SOP. But I saw one rational winger who suggested body armor could be monitored.

    Then some nutters tore loose from their hinges and said the Amendment had nothing to do with sporting, but rather defending against out of control gubmint and protecting your own.

    Therrefore, BECAUSE, BA had nothing to do with sporting, it should still fall under Constitutional protection.

  46. 46.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Ben Franklin:

    Facebook needs to buy a higher quality of algorithm. The link took me to a page for Yeom Pyo Lee, then had a box

    Wrong Yeom Pyo Lee? Others with a similar name: Abby Lee Clearwater

  47. 47.

    Linda Featheringill

    @NotMax:

    Ahh. Maybe the Chinese will develop the water source. Very nice of them.

    I realize they would probably be working for themselves but still, it might be beneficial for the whole area.

  48. 48.

    Schlemizel

    @gnomedad:
    Look how poorly trained police officers perform at hitting targets in live fire situations. Add to that what if there were 6 gun packers in the theater, how would they know which other shooter to targe?

    and on top of all that the CO shooter was in body armor so you would have needed some extra firepower to bring him down.

    But we are not thinking about reality, this is all about make believe. Has any wingnut blogger shamed the victims for not attacking the shooter yet? It will happen and the blogger is just sure they would have gone all Clod Van Damn on his ass cuz they are sooooo super macho.

  51. 51.

    Schlemizel

    @Rommie: No, they should be forced to play their normal schedule! They should then be forced to donate every penny of revenue – EVERY PENNY, ticket sales, merchandise, food sales from the stadium, broadcast revenue, signage at the stadium, the whole thing – to organizations that shelter, support and help rebuild the victims of sexual abuse.

    The penalty should be in place at least as long as the abuse was known about.

  53. 53.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    So cute! You are lucky to have does and fawns on your lawn. (Yes, I know a lot of suburbanites think they’re pests. I disagree.)

    White tail deer climb my dad’s porch and eat the ‘Indian’ corn off of his Thanksgiving door decoration every fall. He thought it was kids until I pointed out the pointy hoof prints in the garden. Some hunter he is.

  56. 56.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @SiubhanDuinne: It’s kind of a feature of this little neighborhood. People who find them pesty need not to move here, because most of us enjoy them. We’re luck that our street has a direct entrance to 25 acres of village owned woods, so deer are a daily occurrence in our yard. They did not get the “travel at dusk” memo, so we see them at all hours.

  57. 57.

    ding dong

    Nothing about the Lenovo ceo giving his 3 mill bonus to low level underlings? He is chinese because if an american ceo did that he would be kicked out of all the prestigious ceo clubs.

  58. 58.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @ding dong:

    Nothing about the Lenovo ceo giving his 3 mill bonus to low level underlings? He is chinese because if an american ceo did that he would be kicked out of all the prestigious ceo clubs.

    There’s a pic circulating on FB about Alice Walton of Wal-Mart. It says she’s worth $21B and nearly half of her employees qualify for food stamps (Soshal1st government support program!). Unverified, but that’s an American captain of industry for you.

  59. 59.

    Jebediah

    @gnomedad:

    one of the standard responses to a mass shooting is that if only more citizens had been carrying, someone could have taken the shooter out. To which the response is that more people could die in the crossfire from people with no training in “stress situations”.

    I have never shot at a person or critter – only paper targets. There is very little stress there, but it still takes a few seconds to get the sights lined up and steady your hand – and you only have to be off by a very small amount for your shot to go pretty wild, even at indoor range distances. So, leaving aside the (very big) issue of correctly identifying the bad guy, I would think that some one with no combat training or experience would have a really really hard time hitting what they are shooting at, considering the enormous stress of an unexpected, shockingly violent situation. Look at how many police-fired rounds hit something other than their target. Half a dozen armed jamokes in a crowded place? As far as I can tell, that is a recipe for lots more innocents killed and injured. No way it turns out like the NRA/winger wankers insist it would.

  61. 61.

    Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God

    @Linda Featheringill:

    But the water is where people will choose to locate themselves.

    Don’t mean to be grim, but Namibia’s quite poor, and weak.

    Like every other natural resource in Africa, that water will be pumped out of the ground and shipped off to richer countries… just like the oil, the gold, the silver, the iron and the diamonds.

    With the full cooperation of whatever corrupt “government” is in place that week.

  64. 64.

    redshirt

    @Baud: That would be the only way to define the present. But rather vague, right? It’s defined by what it is not. And that’s all we can ever say about it.

  67. 67.

    piratedan

    @Boudica: get back to me when the old bastard is dead and his empire is dissasembled… then I’ll join ya for a beer, otherwise I gotta believe its business as usual with a new generation of assholery in charge

  68. 68.

    RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist

    @jeffreyw:

    With this thing.

    That’s pretty interesting. We used an old West Bend air popcorn popper fitted with a hurricane lamp glass chimney, then de-chaffed with a strainer and a small fan. That looks much easier. In either case the result is fresh roasted coffee that tastes marvelous. Green coffee beans are relatively cheap and store much longer than roasted ones. Roasting your own is actually more economical than buying fresh roasted gourmet beans from a local roaster. And if you don’t have a local roast shop it’s pretty much the only way to go.

  69. 69.

    Schlemizel

    @jeffreyw: I have a Malieta Aroma Roast, its a small electric roaster thats about 20 years old now.

    I love playing with different beans & roast levels but the big problem is it only roasts one pots worth at a time. I don’t feel like roasting every day so I don’t use it much any more.

  71. 71.

    Linda Featheringill

    @Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: #61

    Like every other natural resource in Africa, that water will be pumped out of the ground and shipped off to richer countries… just like the oil, the gold, the silver, the iron and the diamonds.

    For a while. Then, the situation will change. I don’t know what the new situation will be but it will be different.

    And then eventually, there will be another change.

    If we live long enough, we’ll get to watch some of it.

  72. 72.

    Brachiator

    @ding dong:

    Nothing about the Lenovo ceo giving his 3 mill bonus to low level underlings? He is chinese because if an american ceo did that he would be kicked out of all the prestigious ceo clubs.

    There are Chinese oligarchs who look at American CEOs and go, “pah. Amateurs.”

    Looking ahead, Apple’s earnings report happens this week. They will probably be swimming in money, but some Wall St morans will be disappointed. Mountain Lion will probably be announced the day after the earnings.

    BTW, both the google 7 inch tablet and the rumored Samsung 10 inch tablet (look for an August 15 announcement) may give Apple a serious run for its money.

    Nothing to add on the gun madness. It’s all too depressing.

  74. 74.

    TheOtherWA

    @gnomedad: The only instance I can think of was the Gabby Giffords shooting, an armed man nearly shot the guy who picked up the gun when the the actual shooter dropped it/was wrestled away from him. (been awhile, don’t rememeber) The armed bystander hesitated specifically because he wasn’t sure what was going on. IIRC he was 50-60 years old. If he’d been 20-30 year old conservative hot head, the would have been more death that day.

    More importantly, in 2009 there were 4 police officers in a Lakewood, WA coffee shop in uniform, armed, and they were all killed by a gunman. They were trained law enforcement, and THEY couldn’t kill the guy who started shooting. How the hell are civilians supposed to do it?

  77. 77.

    jwb

    @Baud: Here is a fuller report. I haven’t looked through it yet to see whether it is less vague than the news reports based on it.

  79. 79.

    maya

    @Ben Franklin:

    Uh,oh. Politics: “Middle of the road”. Will be interpreted by wingnuts as leftist. Totally obvious in the “right center nation” that we are.

    Religious belief: “Agnostic”. Well there you go. Really leftist. Right-thinking Real Mercans are always 100% Xtian 100% of the time.

    Wingnut outrage in 5-4-3-2-

  80. 80.

    quannlace

    he problem is with the poorly trained folks who don’t believe they are. In Tucson, I believe two armed bystanders nearly shot one another in belief they

    It’s like the guy who splashes around in his community pool who thinks he knows how to swim. One day at the beach, he decides to go in despite there being no lifeguards, gets caught in a rip current and drowns.

  81. 81.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Nutella:
    Ugh. It’s infuriating that his supporters keep referring to him as “the innocent”.

    Paterno covered-up Sandusky’s criminal activity for the sake of football. He at least wasn’t this asshole, who doesn’t think child rape needs to be covered-up at all.
    Danger: That blog post is about Tom Martin. Read at the risk of tooth-chattering rage.

  83. 83.

    ruemara

    headed to NYC in less than a week. I got no idea what to pack. Besides tofu and my hand mixer.

  84. 84.

    MikeBoyScout

    Re PSU, Penn State alum and 30 year sports columnist, Gene Collier, over at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has this to say

    There’s only one course for Penn State to take


    The often breathless analysis of the Freeh Report continues to magnetize to the damning emails, but that fails the big-picture focus. See Page 17, which emphasizes “a culture of reverence for the football program that is ingrained at all levels of the campus community. … It is up to the entire [u]niversity community to undertake a thorough and honest review of its culture.”
    It is that culture that Penn State must tear out by its roots. This column first suggested in November that Penn State suspend the football program indefinitely, an opinion that was essentially laughed off the stage at the time but has lately produced some serious echoes, including that of the editorial board of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
    For what happened to Sandusky’s victims, at the hands of Sandusky’s enablers, nothing short of dropping football will matter. Nothing short of dropping football would represent “an honest review of its culture.” Nothing short of dropping football, by Penn State’s own volition, can pass as serious contrition.

    It remains to be seen if the good people with PSU and the people of Pennsylvania can come to grips with the implications of the tragedy their fielty to sport and the cult of personality they created.
    In days when so much is so wrong, it is worthwhile to note Collier’s public call for PSU to “tear out by its roots” something that has put bread on his table for so many years.

  85. 85.

    Baud

    @jwb:

    I searched for “21” to figure out how they came up with the 21 trillion figure, and didn’t see anything helpful.

    @jwb:

    According to Empty Wheel, $21 trillion represents “18% of the total liquid net worth of the world.”

    Exactly why I would like the explanation to be clear – it’s a big claim that they’re making.

  86. 86.

    Wildcat12

    22 y/o Male here. Does anyone have a good recommendation for a specialty beer that’s available in the Midwest? I usually prefer ales but I’m not against some hops for the Summer

  89. 89.

    Ruckus

    @RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:
    It’s OK that a whole shit load of their employees don’t earn enough to get off food stamps. In 2010 Walmart’s profit was around 14 billion. Let’s see that again. Fourteen Billion. Profit. In one year. And Alice is just one of the heirs.

    Some one said the link about offshore money is vague and therefore not real clear. Let’s look at that. They have more money than most of the countries. All of whom can/could print all the money they want. The richest .001% have more than that. And people who work 2 jobs and families in the military are on food stamps and I had to give up my dog. FUCK the filthy rich. Screw rusty pitchforks and chainsaws, beat them around the head and shoulders with their fucking gold bars.
    Sorry I’m not in a very charitable nor forgiving mood today.

  90. 90.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Ruckus:
    I’m very sorry about your dog. I was lucky and my mother was willing to put me up in a pet-friendly motel so I didn’t have to give up my beloved cats.

    Screw rusty pitchforks and chainsaws, beat them around the head and shoulders with their fucking gold bars.

    Dante relates a a better idea: “Crassus, you supped on gold, tell us, did it taste good?”

  95. 95.

    burnspbesq

    @RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:

    pretty soon I’ll have a new Project up at Make Magazine on how to build a great powered ‘computer’ speaker from a wooden cigar box and Radio Shack parts.

    There are those of us whose only skill with a soldering iron consists of sustaining second-degree burns.

    Have to pull something together for the kid’s dorm room. Already got him one of these, which is arguably the best bargain in the history of high-end audio. Now need to decide on a set of powered speakers. Leaning toward Audioengine A5 or Akti-mate Micro, but open to suggestion.

  97. 97.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Ruckus:
    Heh. That’s the legend to which Dante refers: That Crassus was so avaricious the Parthians poured molten gold into his mouth after his death.

    Me, I’d prefer to do so while the likes of Murdoch et. al., are still alive.

  100. 100.

    Ruckus

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
    I am only ever in a forgiving mood to my fellow travelers who are NOT out to fuck over the entire world in a dick measuring contest. Insecure little children. All the maturity of a well below average 8 yr old. No, I’m not sorry that I am in a mood where if all the super rich fuckers in the world simultaneously, spontaneously burst into flames, I wouldn’t waste the time or energy to unzip and piss on any of them. I may point and laugh though.

  101. 101.

    Ruckus

    @Hypatia’s Momma:
    I still like this little incident:

    From Al Franken’s Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right:

    Anytime a liberal points out that the wealthy are disproportionately benefiting from Bush’s tax policies, Republicans shout, “class warfare!”

    In her book, A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous Fourteenth Century, Barbara Tuchman writes about a peasant revolt in 1358 that began in the village of St. Leu and spread throughout the Oise Valley. At one estate, the serfs sacked the manor house, killed the knight, and roasted him on a spit in front of his wife and kids. Then, after ten or twelve peasants violated the lady, with his children watching, they forced her to eat the roasted flesh of her husband and then killed her.

    That is class warfare.
    Arguing over the optimum marginal tax rate for the top one percent is not.

    I like it. Life was probably pretty hard in 1358 for most people but when it got even harder, and just for the enjoyment of the wealthy, remedies could be found.

  102. 102.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Ruckus:
    Well… the lady likely didn’t have any choice at all in her marriage or status, so killing her husband, gang-raping her, and forcing her into cannibalism before killing her is… pretty fucking vile and absolutely inexcusable. Her husband is the one with the power, so why is she the one so viciously “punished”?

  103. 103.

    Ruckus

    @Hypatia’s Momma:
    She’s an enabler? She took advantage of her position?
    Beats the hell out of me but then I wasn’t there. I imagine that she was from a family with money and power otherwise she would never have married into money and power. She may even have been related by blood to the knight. Also I think that the story is told by Al Franklin as a comparison to how raising marginal tax rates is not close to class warfare. A fine comparison to what really pissed off people can do if pushed far enough. We are all just animals with iPods and cars. No real difference than lions, tigers, etc. We only think we are different.

  104. 104.

    Ruckus

    @Hypatia’s Momma:
    I didn’t actually think about it this way but did you know how the pheasants were treated before they did this? Maybe this knight and his wife deserved a lot worse and got off lightly. How much could you take before you went off wild thing? I don’t have a clue to my limits and I’ll bet most don’t. But if and when you reach yours what will your reaction be? Walk a mile in their shoes is my answer.

  105. 105.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Ruckus:
    Yes. I also know how women in general were treated, no matter their social status. Her husband was far and away more likely to have been the worse perpetrator (and would have been socially and religiously sanctioned to abuse her and her children, as well, by the way) but she’s the one who is tortured and gang-raped.

    But if and when you reach yours what will your reaction be?

    Believe me, I won’t be raping anyone, regardless of the provocation. I don’t wish that on any person, much less one who was likely just as much a victim of her society as the peasants. “Options” weren’t things women of 14th century Europe had. I am curious about how rape apologists think, though: Why do you think she deserves the worse torment? It’s 14th-century Europe. This woman wasn’t an Anne Romney or a Leona Helmsley. There’s nothing to indicate that she was an Elsabeth Bathory, either. So why are you in favour of her being subjected to torture and gang-rape?

  106. 106.

    Ruckus

    @Hypatia’s Momma:
    So why are you in favour of her being subjected to torture and gang-rape?

    Hold on there.
    I’m not. I’m saying that the world was a different place then if only by degree. IOW it is better for women today but not good enough, we have a long way to go.
    I wasn’t there. I didn’t do it. You weren’t there and don’t know any more about this incident than I do. We both seem to have a reasonable understanding of the history of treatment of women but I will certainly concede that your perspective is a whole lot different than mine. I didn’t and don’t endorse it. The pheasants in France over 600 years ago were there and did, so Barbara Tuchman wrote about it, Al Franklin put it in his book, I posted it here not as a manifesto on treating woman but as a historical happening, a counterpoint to the republican whining that raising the marginal tax rate on those making over $250,000.00 by a few percent is class warfare. I believe I can understand your perspective and desire to put this on me but you are wrong in doing that. The world is certainly an unfair place and there are a number of groups of humans who absolutely get the shitty end of the stick. Sometimes one of those groups gets upset enough to retaliate and do things that, looked at from a distance are horrible. They most likely were horrible then as well but we were not there to know the actual history, we don’t even know how much truth there is in this particular instance.
    Back to your original point, did this woman get by far the shitty end of the stick? Sure looks like it to me. But if women were indeed considered chattel(and I believe they were) then the men doing what they did would probably see this as just, as just killing the man did not wipe out his entire being and fortune. For that you’d have to destroy everything he owned.

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