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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Friday Evening Open Thread: Whiner

Friday Evening Open Thread: Whiner

by Anne Laurie|  August 3, 20125:53 pm| 180 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat, Assholes, Romney of the Uncanny Valley

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(Mike Luckovich via GoComics.com)
__
Best headline of the day: The Stranger‘s Paul Constant, “Mitt Romney Says He Has Paid Taxes, So Harry Reid Just Better Stop Picking on Him, or Romney Will Tell Mom“:

… It’s become a regular Romney campaign stunt to try to put out fires by scheduling press availabilities on Friday afternoon. But Friday afternoons are when most campaigns assume people aren’t paying attention to the news. I don’t know exactly why Romney’s people keep doing this. Maybe it’s because they don’t trust Romney to not fuck it up?

Well, Romney fucked this one up. Hugely. He looks cagey, whiney, and powerless, here. I expect him to burst into tears at the end of this statement. “Bullied” is not high on the list of qualities people like in their presidential candidates. And his demand that Reid release his sources still sounds fishy, because the one human being who could conclusively settle this matter once and for all is Mitt Romney, by releasing his taxes. If Romney keeps this up, he’ll look like the saddest sack to run for president since Ed Muskie. And at least Muskie was sobbing about his wife; Romney keeps getting all huffy over his money.

Apart from the ongoing neural net implosion of the Romneybot v.2012, what’s on the agenda for the beginning of the weekend?

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Previous Post: « FightBigotry.com: Because Black People Are the Real Racists
Next Post: And we shall know him by his advisors »

Reader Interactions

180Comments

  1. 1.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 3, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    I assume that he CANNOT release his taxes at this point. Would either make him look weak, i.e., caved into Dems’ demands or would reveal something so negative it would sink his campaign, i.e., didn’t pay taxes for an extended period of time.

    So glad to see him squirming. Cannot stand the man. Dying for the elections so that he and his Queen can go back to their umpteen houses, dancing horses and car garages.

  2. 2.

    AnotherBruce

    August 3, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    There is no doubt that Romney deeply and tenderly loves his money. His whole world view revolves around money. He judges others by how much money they have. No wonder he gets so emotional about and protects it like a jealous lover. It’s so touching to see such an unconditional love.

  3. 3.

    BGinCHI

    August 3, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    So in response to Reid’s “he said” about Romney’s taxes, Mitt’s comeback, which took days, is to say “I did too pay taxes”?

    Really?

    You can’t call someone’s methodology out by resorting to it.

    Or is that the whole GOP playbook in a wingnutshell?

  4. 4.

    geg6

    August 3, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    Heh. I’m sure Harry Reid will be happy to out his source. Just as soon as Mittens outs the last ten years of his tax returns.

    Romney is like any other high school bully. He’s a tough guy with people smaller and weaker. But the minute someone fights back, it’s all whining about someone being mean to him. Not very presidential there, Willard.

  5. 5.

    Stranded Northerner

    August 3, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    When Romney is talking about “loved ones” he means dollar bills.

  6. 6.

    EconWatcher

    August 3, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    We seem to have an illustration of an unstoppable force meeting and unmoveable object:

    I don’t see how Mitt can think he’ll be able to finish this campaign without releasing the returns. The questions will never stop. There are many different angles to this, based on what’s already known. And I can’t think of an analogy of a major-party candidate running while openly refusing to answer these kinds of questions.

    On the other hand, it’s obvious he’s already concluded that the returns are so toxic, he can’t release them.

    So what’s going to happen here? I’m all atwitter.

  7. 7.

    The Dangerman

    August 3, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    Apparently a flathead (the screw, not Romney; well, him, too).

  8. 8.

    cathyx

    August 3, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Romney’s response to Reid is that he wants Reid to put up or shut up about who told him that Romney didn’t pay taxes. Yes, put up or shut up Reid. lol

  9. 9.

    LanceThruster

    August 3, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    I had an ex-roommate who was quite the momma’s boy.

    One time I really lit his fire when I out-voted him (he wanted to go home to sleep in his own bed and I said I couldn’t drive that night because I had a suspended license and discovered I had a tail light out), “Stop being such a goddamn BABY!”

    His reaction was almost literally whining, “I am NOT being a baby! I’m NOT, I’m NOT!” [snivel]

  10. 10.

    The Dangerman

    August 3, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    @EconWatcher:

    So what’s going to happen here?

    I say he releases them after the convention.

  11. 11.

    danielx

    August 3, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    WATB.

    That is all.

  12. 12.

    PeakVT

    August 3, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Even one year of zero or negative taxes (legally calculated) would be a huge blow.

    Me, I’m getting excited about the Curiosity landing on Sunday night. Go, rover, go!

  13. 13.

    BGinCHI

    August 3, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    How can Romney’s tax records be checked once he releases them? Aren’t they still private?

    It would be just like that bunch to lie about it.

    Yes, they are that fucking stupid/desperate/arrogant.

  14. 14.

    LanceThruster

    August 3, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Semper fidelis pecuniam!

  15. 15.

    Maude

    August 3, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Poor Romney hasn’t had to face reality before. It must be quite a shock. It wasn’t supposed to go this way. No one was supposed to question him.
    After all, he was a job creator, a business man, a rich man. Now he’s a whiny little boy.

  16. 16.

    JPL

    August 3, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    @The Dangerman: Not gonna happen. I’d bet on that one and I don’t bet. If I’m wrong, I’ll give a hundred to the candidate of your choice as long as it’s a dem and you give to mine. That’s how confident I am.
    His returns are toxic and he has never released them even when running for previous offices.

  17. 17.

    Todd

    August 3, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    Apart from the ongoing neural net implosion of the Romneybot v.2012

    I prefer the awesome sounding “cascade failure in the positronic matrix” verbiage. More trekkie…

  18. 18.

    Hal

    August 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    Think about it: this is a guy willing to capsize his entire campaign over what’s in his tax returns…

    …but there’s nothing even remotely damaging to Romney in said returns. Except all that stuff that can actually be used against, unfairly according to Romney, but trust him when he says you won’t care…

    …Except if you do, which you won’t because he says you won’t, but just to make sure you don’t he’s not releasing them.

    BTW, I want to kiss Harry Reid for doing this. Romney is at put up or shut up velocity now, and he’s either going to keep boo-hooing or finally release the returns. Neither scenario seems likely to work for Romney in the end.

  19. 19.

    muddy

    August 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    In other amusing news, I just saw on the local channel about a guy who was mad about the Sheriff busting him for pot and resisting arrest, so he took his tractor to the Sheriff’s Dept. and crushed 7 cruisers with his tractor.

    The dept. did not notice him doing this, as they had the a/c on. They found out when a neighbor called 911. hee Then they couldn’t pursue him at first because they had no cruisers.
    http://www.wcax.com/story/19190486/vt-man-accused-of-crushing-cop-cars-due-in-court

  20. 20.

    ericblair

    August 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    Shorter Romney:

    Access is denied. Operation not permitted.
    Access is denied. Operation not permitted.
    Access is denied. Operation not permitted.
    Access is denied. Operation not permitted.
    Access is denied. Operation not permitted.
    Maximum attempts exceeded. Your account has been locked.

  21. 21.

    JPL

    August 3, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    This is what he will release, he’ll say I paid 1 million in taxes in 1999. I paid 1 million in 2004. He won’t release what he earned or the effective rate.

  22. 22.

    RyanayR

    August 3, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Can we just skip the middleman and have Paul Constant blog here, instead of just having someone constantly quoting him?

  23. 23.

    WereBear

    August 3, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Put me in the “taxes too toxic to release” camp. His own father started the precedent; and he’s had YEARS to prepare. But apparently the lovely lovely loola is more important.

    Fine with me.

  24. 24.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    This is repeat of comment from previous post. I should have had faith and waited a few minutes for the open thread.

    OT but nice to see:
    Headline blrub of top Yahoo news story from ABC for last several hours:

    ‘It’s a mathematical fact of life’

    Romney’s tax plan will raise middle-class taxes while reducing the burden on the rich, a study claims.

    The headline for actual story is not so hot:
    How Romney’s Tax Plan Could Raise Middle-Class Taxes
    By Amy Bingham | ABC OTUS News

    (Edit: Could? I did not know that mathematical facts of life were ‘coulds’.)

    ” Mitt Romney’s campaign is hitting back against a study released this week showing the GOP candidate’s tax plan would raise taxes on the middle class while slashing the tax burden for millionaires, calling the report “biased” and “a joke.”

    The study was developed by the centrist Tax Policy Center and authored by economists who have worked under both the Obama and Bush administrations.

    It concluded that Romney’s proposed tax cuts – which include reducing all personal income taxes rates by 20 percent, eliminating the estate tax and zeroing-out taxes on investment income for couples earning less than $200,000 per year would slash $360 billion in federal revenues in 2015. ”

    … snip …

    ’ …because Romney’s proposed tax cuts are so large, according to the study, he would have to slice 65 percent of all the loopholes and deductions that are feasible to cut, such as the mortgage interest deduction, child credit, deductions for charitable contributions and exclusions for employer-provided health insurance.

    “You’re kind of not left with very much to work with,” said Adam Looney, one of the report’s authors and a senior fellow at the Washington, D.C.-based Tax Policy Center, formed as a nonpartisan venture by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute.

    “The purpose of that paper was to scale back people’s expectations for what could actually be reduced in a tax reform,” Looney continued, “to establish what’s really feasible and what’s on the table.” ’

    http://news.yahoo.com/romneys-tax-plan-could-raise-middle-class-taxes-170554681–abc-news-politics.html
    Emphasis added.

    I eagerly await the sorrowful GOP PAC ad campaign decrying the elitist Nobama bigotry against people who can’t read, add and subtract.

    And the conspriacy nuts: did you know UN black helicopters are going to swarm the countryside with Bolshevick Kenyan shock troops, who will rapell down into Amercian homes and teach people to add and subtract?

  25. 25.

    scav

    August 3, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    “I have paid taxes every year, and a lot of taxes,” Romney said. “So Harry is simply wrong.”

    Parsing closely (this is Mr Tightly Written Contract Man), so has everyone, because we pay property tax, sales tax, gas tax, city, township, county, state and federal taxes, etc etc etc. So there: a lot of taxes. No direction mention of how much (or little) one paid in $ any year (or 10) in Federal Income Tax.

  26. 26.

    JPL

    August 3, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    @muddy: It was on nbc.com… hilarious.

  27. 27.

    the Conster

    August 3, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    It is going to slowly make him crazy that he knows that Team O knows what he knows. He’s 65 years old and it’s the first time in his life he’s in a really tough spot. Sucks to be you Willard. Surrounding yourself with Mormon yes men was probably a good idea at the time.

  28. 28.

    Richard Fox

    August 3, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    This is what bullies do. They crumple in a heap when their power is threatened by forces beyond their itty bitty digits. I hope someone brings tissues to his next moment with the press. Who wants all that slobber on their shirt?

  29. 29.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    August 3, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    If Romney keeps this up, he’ll look like the saddest sack to run for president since Ed Muskie. And at least Muskie was sobbing about his wife; Romney keeps getting all huffy over his money.

    __
    Ouch, that’s going to leave a mark. Does anybody know, do Mormons take Ibogaine?

  30. 30.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    @scav:

    ha ha. I thought the same thing when I read that. If Romney keeps this up will need a clock of elapsed time from Fighten’ Harry’s report of the rich Bain investor who was talkin’, until Mitt releases his returns, or is willing to say that he paid income taxes every year.

  31. 31.

    eric

    August 3, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    There is a poo-poo platter of toxicity in those returns, from overseas tax shelters, low effective tax rates, planned parenthood donations and maybe LGBT donations from back when he was a moderate northeastern republican, to insufficient tithing. I say all of the above and that we will never see them. “Which has led you, inexorably, here” — why would he ever give those returns to McCain and why would he ever run for the clown-car GOP nomination with those returns?

  32. 32.

    cckids

    August 3, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    @Hal:

    BTW, I want to kiss Harry Reid for doing this.

    I know, right? Never been prouder of my senator. Though it may be a tell that he isn’t going to run again. Make it memorable, Harry! Stick to your guns.

  33. 33.

    FlipYrWhig

    August 3, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Mitt Romney is a thoroughly unpleasant entity. I want to see him trampled into the mud, scorned as a laughingstock forever.

  34. 34.

    wrb

    August 3, 2012 at 6:17 pm

    The tax returns shouldn’t be considered sufficient.

    The details of the activity of his overseas money and of his IRA should be demanded.

    I don’t see how he can release them now they are going to look ugly, even if the story that he valued the fetuses in the millions in the deduction he made after the refrigeration failed isn’t true.

  35. 35.

    dmsilev

    August 3, 2012 at 6:17 pm

    The really funny thing is that unless the tax returns were utterly toxic (“Mitt Romney claimed a business-expense deduction for removal costs for three dead Vegas hookers in 2006”), he should have released them a year or so ago when basically nobody was paying attention. Then, if someone tried to make a fuss over the low rate he paid or some dodgy tax avoidance scheme, he could just say “old news, we covered this last year”. Instead, by drawing this out and basically kicking and screaming like a 3 year old, the entire country is watching and starting to wonder what he’s hiding.

  36. 36.

    Catsy

    August 3, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    At this point there is absolutely no question that what is in Mitt Romney’s tax returns is bad for his campaign. Given how much ongoing damage he’s suffering from continuing to refuse to release them, the downside in his mind to doing so has to be enormous.

    I still think Romney took advantage of IRS amnesty for offshore accounts. If it was just paying little or no taxes legally for a number of years, I think by now he might’ve caved and tried to ride out the fallout or change the subject.

    Think about it: Romney’s digging in and sticking to this principle for dear life. Are “stalwart” or “principled” words you would normally associate with Romney in any other context?

    He’s afraid of what’s in there. Mark my words.

  37. 37.

    Hal

    August 3, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Also, I’ve said this before, but this whole cluster fuck is reminding me of Obama’s Senate race against Jack Ryan when Ryan insisted there was nothing, absolutely nothing, in his divorce records that would embarrass him or the party.

    Then it turned out he wanted a 3 way with 7 of 9 at a Chicago sex club, and Obama ended up running against Alan Keyes. The man who established the 27% rule of crazification.

  38. 38.

    Hypatia's Momma

    August 3, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    @muddy:
    So… they have no cruisers to respond to any calls and those cruisers are replaced by… donations?

  39. 39.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    August 3, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    And at least Muskie was sobbing about his wife; Romney keeps getting all huffy over his money.

    Romney is technically allowed multiple wives.

  40. 40.

    Ash Can

    August 3, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    One thing I’m concerned about: If he releases bogus tax returns — ones that don’t show any of the incriminating stuff the actual ones most likely have on them — is there any way for anyone to call him on it? I assume someone from McCain’s campaign could cry foul, but would there be any other way to verify that what he released was his actual, un-doctored returns? If the “release” is simply the go-ahead to the IRS to allow anyone who asks for them to see them, thus making the IRS the actual “releaser,” I’d definitely feel better about it. (Yes, I am ignorant on this.)

  41. 41.

    Carl Nyberg

    August 3, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    What does it matter who the source is?

    Is Romney going to discredit the source? Is Romney going to make sure he never works at Bain?

    What matters is whether the information is true.

    Mr. Romney, how will revealing the identity of the source move us closer to understanding what you are hiding by not releasing your taxes?

  42. 42.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    Following the first link in post we get some more two minutes of gut-hate from Harry on poor little rich boy Mitt. Looks like Reid is chastened and contrite:

    ‘ Earlier in the day, Reid launched another round of attacks on Romney, this time for “insulting” the American public by refusing to release his tax returns.

    “It’s hard to say which is more insulting to Americans’ intelligence, Mitt Romney’s tax plan or his refusal to show the American people what’s in his tax returns,” Reid said in a statement. “Romney seems to think he’s above the basic level of transparency and openness that every presidential candidate has lived up to since his father set the standard in 1968.”

    “In short, Romney’s message to Nevadans is this: He won’t release his taxes, but he wants to raise yours.”

    Reid signaled Friday that he’s not relenting in his attacks. He accused Romney of being “the most secretive presidential candidate since Richard Nixon” and pointed out that even nominees overseen by the Senate Finance Committee have to produce more tax returns that Romney is willing to release.

    “Forget about president — Mitt Romney couldn’t get confirmed as a cabinet secretary,” Reid said. “The contents of the one year of returns he has released would probably be enough to tank his nomination anyway: secret overseas bank accounts in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, tax avoidance tricks and a lower tax rate than middle-class families pay.” ‘

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/03/mitt-romney-taxes-paid_n_1738262.html

  43. 43.

    Hypatia's Momma

    August 3, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:
    He’s on my list of “Those I want to see flogged naked through the streets to the jeering taunts of the crowd” but he’s not in the top 10.

  44. 44.

    Mike in NC

    August 3, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    Muskie was sobbing about his wife; Romney keeps getting all huffy over his money.

    Not about the dancing pony?

  45. 45.

    LanceThruster

    August 3, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    @muddy:

    BWAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

  46. 46.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    August 3, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    @dmsilev:

    he should have released them a year or so ago

    __
    Hell, he could have released them 2 days before the Olympics started and it would have all been water under the bridge so far as low info American voters are concerned. There must be something in those returns bad enough that he’s afraid of a Paultard revolt at the convention in Tampa.

  47. 47.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    August 3, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    @scav:

    Ana Marie Cox just made that exact same point on The Rev Al show (property, sales taxes etc), which he admitted he hadn’t even thought about. However that is the exact argument that the libs have been making when wingers say that “47% of the American people don’t pay taxes” we respond that of course they pay taxes (payroll, property, sales etc.) I just hope that argument doesn’t come back and bite us in the ass.

  48. 48.

    the Conster

    August 3, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    @Hal:

    It is remarkable isn’t it that Obama is so “lucky” with his opponents? 27% is going to end up taking its place with e=mc[squared] and Rule 34. The skinny guy with the big ears and funny name might actually be the most interesting man in the world.

  49. 49.

    Hypatia's Momma

    August 3, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    @Ash Can:
    I think if he releases bogus tax returns, then the IRS might take notice and subject him to an audit. He can then send out campaign press releases from the swamp to which he has fled to escape their hounds.

  50. 50.

    LanceThruster

    August 3, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    @jl:

    Even as an atheist, in my best and sincere Billy Budd voice, “God bless ‘arry Reid.”

  51. 51.

    jayboat

    August 3, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    Lots of win in this thread.

    Take all the points made above and put em in a pie and bake it. What do ya get?

    Rmoney is the absolute worst candidate in the history of candidates.

  52. 52.

    dmsilev

    August 3, 2012 at 6:26 pm

    @Hal:

    Then it turned out he wanted a 3 way with 7 of 9 at a Chicago sex club, and Obama ended up running against Alan Keyes. The man who established the 27% rule of crazification.

    Nitpick: It was a Parisian sex club. Or perhaps multiple Parisian sex clubs; I’ve forgotten the details.

    And, as the Ryan episode clearly demonstrates, Barack Obama’s true superpower is to induce his opponents to self-destruct. Appears to still be working.

  53. 53.

    JPL

    August 3, 2012 at 6:26 pm

    I think that he paid and then deducted Utah state taxes before he ran for office in MA. That would disqualify him from running in MA.
    Also, too he deducted health care for his love child with a former Olympic gold medalist that was born in another country that can’t and won’t be named.

  54. 54.

    BGinCHI

    August 3, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: We want to see his fucking income taxes.

    How’s that for clarity?

  55. 55.

    Carl Nyberg

    August 3, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    One of the things that’s extra absurd about Romney’s current whining…

    Romney’s excuse for not releasing his full returns is that he doesn’t want Democrats combing through the details and twisting pieces of his return to put him in a negative light.

    OK. This reason doesn’t rise to the level of withholding his returns, but…

    Romney could release the amount he paid without releasing his full returns.

    This would be enough to refute the allegation that Romney paid zero and it would not let Democrats pick through the details of his returns.

    Since Romney isn’t providing info to refute Reid’s allegation, it pretty much looks like Reid is either correct or close enough to correct that Romney doesn’t have much of a defense.

  56. 56.

    muddy

    August 3, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    @Hypatia’s Momma: It was half of their total fleet, neighboring counties are pitching in until they get the insurance money to buy new ones. It’s an extremely rural area.

  57. 57.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    @dmsilev: Thanks for remindingm me of how Obama got to run against the nutty Keyes.

    Obama is ‘lucky’ in getting his opponents…

    unless Nobama is really a commie Kenyan space alien who implanted dirty thoughts in poor old Ryan’s head, through magic. Wake up before it’s too late!

  58. 58.

    Rekster

    August 3, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    I haven’t read all the comments today but if anyone missed this then it certainly deserves a mention IMHO:

    http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2012/8/2/20523/87732

    Y’know, it’s a bit like saying that the current president is a secret Muslim socialist who lied about his U.S. birth and has a fake Social Security number and is secretly plotting to take away all privately owned guns if he’s reelected, either before or after he finishes the job of deliberately destroying American capitalism. It’s also a bit like saying that the previous Democratic president was a drug dealing serial murderer and rapist whose lesbian wife had her male lover killed when she wasn’t hanging sex toys on the White House Christmas tree.

    There is more but that’s the money line!

  59. 59.

    muddy

    August 3, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    @JPL: I thought it was a very Vermont-ish crime. I can’t believe thy didn’t even hear it.

  60. 60.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    August 3, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    @BGinCHI: Absolutely, but you know wingers will spin it, “but of course he paid taxes”blah blah blah ignoring the fact that he paid zero in income taxes like the rest of us peons.

  61. 61.

    Carl Nyberg

    August 3, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    Obama’s oppo team are deadly ninja assassins. They can destroy someone, e.g. Blair Hull, Jack Ryan, etc. and leave no finger prints.

    As someone commented, maybe on Balloon Juice, if this is going to be a contest of skulduggery and dark alley knife fights, the smart bet is that the team from Chicago is gonna prevail over the team from Salt Lake City.

  62. 62.

    muddy

    August 3, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    @jl: I thought they brought in Keyes later because he was black, and they imagine people would be too confused about who to vote for.

  63. 63.

    Felanius Kootea

    August 3, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    @Carl Nyberg: I keep hearing on blogs that CNN’s Dana Bash confirmed with the same source that Romney paid zero federal income taxes (legally, due to tax loopholes he was able to take advantage of). Since I can’t find anything about Dana’s confirmation on the CNN site itself, I have to assume that this is a rumor. I would love to have a reporter back up that story though. It would be game over Romney.

  64. 64.

    PeakVT

    August 3, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    On the taxes, a caller on a show I was listening to earlier pointed out that Romney could prove he paid federal income taxes by releasing the checks (or some other verifiable receipt). But we may be beyond the point where that would satisfy anyone who isn’t already a blind conservative partisan.

  65. 65.

    JustAnotherBob

    August 3, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    Should the American people be reminded that Romney hasn’t even released a single year of the two years he promised to produce?

    He gave us part of the 2010 tax return, none of the 2011.

  66. 66.

    Turgidson

    August 3, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    It’s a good line, but the problem I have with it is that Muskie seems like he was a pretty solid guy and would have made a decent president if Nixon’s ratfucking hadn’t tanked him before he could get started. Granted, I’m not a Muskie historian, but what I know of him is pretty positive.

  67. 67.

    eric

    August 3, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    One wonders if Bob Schrum changed party affiliations and is actively running the Romney campaign. CANNOT wait for the tell-all book after Romney loses because that bus is gonna running over a shitload of folk. yikes.

  68. 68.

    Lojasmo

    August 3, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    Just pointing out that Howard Dean talked about the likelihood that RMoney may not have paid taxes for several years about a month ago. <3

  69. 69.

    wrb

    August 3, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    @JPL:

    Also, too he deducted health care for his love child with a former Olympic gold medalist that was born in another country that can’t and won’t be named.

    I don’t think that deduction is that big a deal, it is the resulting focus on the questions raised by those goings on that will be: child’s medical condition and what might have caused it, and what happened to the mother- and the matter of the neoprene object.

  70. 70.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    August 3, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    @PeakVT:

    On the taxes, a caller on a show I was listening to earlier pointed out that Romney could prove he paid federal income taxes by releasing the checks

    __
    He doesn’t want the rest of the world to know that he was signing his checks as “Batman”. The IRS, they probably didn’t care as long as the check cleared and he wrote his SSN number in the margin. But the rest of America might start wondering if magic underwear is the least-weird thing locked up in his wardrobe.

  71. 71.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    Krugman is on vacation, so sorry BJ blog, my first read of the day will be a look see for ol’ Harry’s latest McCarthyite attack on poor little lord Romney of the flop sweat and whine:

    “Well, thish yer Romney had loopholes, and deductions, and write offs and all them kind of things, till you couldn’t rest, and you couldn’t fetch nothing for him to chisel on but he’d match you. He ketched a IRA one day, and took him home, and said he cal’lated to educate him; and so he never done nothing for years but set in his back yard and learn that IRA to jump. And you bet you he did learn him, too.”

  72. 72.

    Carl Nyberg

    August 3, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    Linked to a Christian Science Monitor article, southaustin wrote:

    Conservatives are always going ballistic about what they claim is 50% of the population that pays no taxes. Now it turns out that their standard bearer is one of those so called freeloaders. The irony is just too rich !

    Here’s my insight on “conservatism”:

    When you’re too poor for the federal income tax to apply, not paying taxes is a vice.

    When you’re so rich you have accountants that make your taxes go away, it’s a virtue.

    It’s not the taxes that matter in their world, it’s one’s social status. Rich=good; poor=bad, immoral, lazy.

  73. 73.

    Turgidson

    August 3, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    @muddy:

    This would be funny if it happened in a Family Guy episode. Not so much in reality. I have a healthy skepticism of the police and all, but I prefer that they retain the ability to get into cars and drive to the scene of a crime or emergency.

  74. 74.

    scav

    August 3, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Given that the statement is true, but that Rombot is using a technically truthful statement to mislead, I don’t think we’re in much real danger. Will there be flung poo and pouty faces? Inevitably. Sun Rises.

    Oh, OT, I’m reneging on my on the Olympics don’t bother with rooting for sides/individuals thing and cheering on Andy Murray. If only ’cause he inevitably seems the butt of a joke on Radio 4e and thus seems practically family.

  75. 75.

    Ben Franklin

    August 3, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    @Carl Nyberg:

    I dunno. Ever watch HBO’s Big Love?

  76. 76.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    @muddy: Did they? If so, GOP racist gimmick fail. You would think they would have learned by now. This ain’t the 1850s, or 1860s, or 1950s, or 60s or 80s. Yeesh. Talk about losers stuck out of time.

  77. 77.

    muddy

    August 3, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    @Turgidson: It was the absurdity that they didn’t even notice the utter destruction in their own parking lot until someone called 911 that really got to me.

  78. 78.

    Carl Nyberg

    August 3, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    @Felanius Kootea: Daily Kos has a diary that says the Dana Bash rumor came from her reporting on the Reid claim.

    She did not verify that the source had said it. Rather she reported that Reid had double checked with his source.

  79. 79.

    Amir Khalid

    August 3, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    Mitt Romney saw this coming years ago and didn’t do a thing about it. He knew his dad released all those years of tax returns and set the standard for presidential candidates. Mitt himself wanted to be President and should have been ready and willing to face scrutiny of his tax history. Now he’s whining about being outmaneuvered on this.

    The longer he holds out on this, the longer it remains a live and damaging issue. His failure to cut his losses and release the returns shows poor strategic thinking, not what you want in a President. That he was so easily outmaneuvered is another reason against electing him President. That he’s being a crybaby about it is a third. One swing, three misses.

    Per Slate, Mitt’s having a go at running on his record as Massachusetts governor — a post he neglected for much of his term, as I’m often reminded here, and in which he became so unpopular that he didn’t dare seek re-election.

  80. 80.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 6:44 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: No, even if it is the gimmick Romney is pulling it will not come back and hit us in the ass, because the lucky duckies who pay no income tax do not pay because they have so little income, not because they have so much that can be sheltered away in shady tax shelters and gimmicks.

  81. 81.

    Carl Nyberg

    August 3, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    The longer he holds out on this, the longer it remains a live and damaging issue. His failure to cut his losses and release the returns shows poor strategic thinking, not what you want in a President. That he was so easily outmaneuvered is another reason against electing him President. That he’s being a crybaby about it is a third. One swing, three misses.

    Add that Romney’s handling of this shows he’s poorly disciplined.

    He said he didn’t want to talk about tax returns anymore. And he couldn’t stick to that position. Harry Reid tweaked him and he got in a huff.

    More evidence that he will be easy to goad into making mistakes if he were to become POTUS (which he won’t be).

  82. 82.

    f space that

    August 3, 2012 at 6:47 pm

    He either took advantage of the 2009 amnesty, which means he was a criminal, or the returns prove he lied about residency to run in Mass. Either way criminal.

    Also, if none of the above, the Dems get to start hammering on the giant IRA, this has already begun.

    He just thinks he plays by a different set of rules, all the 1%’ers do.

  83. 83.

    Gex

    August 3, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    “DID TOO!” is exactly the kind of well thought out counterargument the leader of the free world needs to dish out all the time. I think Mitt’s ready to rule!

  84. 84.

    JPL

    August 3, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    @muddy: nbc news is going to cover it next where I live.

  85. 85.

    Hill Dweller

    August 3, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    Harry Smash

  86. 86.

    RaflW

    August 3, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    My reaction to Mitt whinging about the media being unfair on his international gaffapalooza was the same as my reaction today, and when he wanted Obama to quit it on the Bain retro-retirement: W.A.T.B.

    Which is never, ever Presidential.

  87. 87.

    Turgidson

    August 3, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    That’s the most baffling thing to me. He ran for Gov in 2002 and was obviously already planning to run for president next. He could have just told his accountants, starting in 2002, to make his tax returns look as innocuous as possible and to stop looking so hard for loopholes, deductions, etc.

    If he’d done so, by now, 10 years later, he’d have nearly a decade of harmless returns to provide and this would have been at most a 1 or 2 day story about how rich he is, rather than the issue that is killing his campaign by 1000 cuts.

  88. 88.

    Gex

    August 3, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: OMG. You just nailed it. Whatever is in there is considered to be so bad it will even register and matter to the people who think both parties are about the same.

    Given all the shit that doesn’t make those people stand up and take notice, that has to be one hell of a tax return.

  89. 89.

    JPL

    August 3, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    @RaflW: This picture needs an update http://i48.tinypic.com/kykpj.jpg

  90. 90.

    lonesomerobot

    August 3, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    @Felanius Kootea: Bash confirmed with another source that knows the source to whom Reid is referring. And Bash’s source says that Reid’s source is “credible”.

  91. 91.

    Todd

    August 3, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    @Hal:

    Then it turned out he wanted a 3 way with 7 of 9 at a Chicago sex club…

    On a non-political vein, in what kind of fucked up mind is Jeri Ryan not good enough all by her lonesome, to the point of wanting a supercharged bi-tryst? How sexually greedy does one man need to be?

  92. 92.

    Gex

    August 3, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: That shouldn’t be an issue. Okay, we all pay sales tax. Most Americans pay INCOME tax also. If Mitt does not, paying sales tax on every can of hair gel he buys isn’t going to cut it.

  93. 93.

    tybee

    August 3, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:

    Dana Bash said she had confirmed reid’s source via another contact.

    mittwit’s a dead mean. :)

  94. 94.

    MattR

    August 3, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    @Turgidson: Making money now always wins even if it may cause potentital problems down the road.

    @tybee: All Bash did was find a source in Reid’s office who confirmed that Reid accurately recounted what the Bain source told him. She did not find a second source confirming that the Bain source itself was accurate.

  95. 95.

    JPL

    August 3, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    @Turgidson: money, money, money makes the world go round, world go round.
    I truly think that it’s the money that gives him his strength and without it he’d melt on the street.

    well matt beat me to it. but it’s the money

  96. 96.

    bemused senior

    August 3, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    Excellent post about Romney campaign strategy, especially Harry Reid’s gambit, at James Fallow’s blog. Best part:

    http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/jamesfallows/assets_c/2012/08/HarryReid-thumb-300×312-95136.jpg

  97. 97.

    eric

    August 3, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    @Todd: if you could have TWO 7 of 9s (or 14 of 18) wouldn’t you at least ask?

  98. 98.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 3, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    As I pointed out the other day, if Rmoney is stupid enough to sue for defamation, discovery will solve this problem for once and for all.

    At this point, given the levels of stupid Rmoney has shown so far, I would not put it past him to take the plunge.

    He is fucked. He did it to himself.

  99. 99.

    Amir Khalid

    August 3, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    @bemused senior:
    Linky bad. Please to fix?

  100. 100.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    August 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    @Gex:

    I agree, but we should be ready for the wingers response (if he does release the returns) “but of course he paid taxes, he paid payroll taxes, and sales taxes, and property taxes” etc. etc., etc., whatever, we should be ready with the response “but that is what you were saying about 47% of the American people who do not pay federal income taxes, will you now not agree that THOSE people ARE paying taxes?”.

  101. 101.

    MattR

    August 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    @eric: Not if it meant I would soon have ZERO 7 of 9s

  102. 102.

    Turgidson

    August 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    @RaflW:

    This whole affair is not too far off from Josh Marshall/TPM’s bitch slap theory of politics. Mitt just looks like such a sniveling wuss.

    His entire pushback on this issue has been some variation on crying “NO FAIR!” and trying to convince us that this is all some sort of unprecedented dirty politics. Which, of course, is rich coming from a pathological liar who accuses the president, in not-so-subtle terms, of being an un-American “foreign” other every day in his stump speech – and whose own father set the standard he’s being judged on re releasing taxes.

    If he had the media wrapped around his finger like Bush did and McCain did until Palin outed herself, and by assocation him, as a moron, he might get away with this charade. But he hasn’t put up a tire swing or made bitchin BBQ for them, so they won’t cover for him to the same extent.

    And the Obama team (and Reid, lately, whether independently or not) is playing to win, so they won’t let this drop.

  103. 103.

    lonesomerobot

    August 3, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    @Amir Khalid: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/what-angelo-dundee-could-have-told-mitt-romney-and-harry-reid/260635/

  104. 104.

    lamh35

    August 3, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Ok, this has absolutely nothing to do with nothing, but Wait, how slow am I. Am I the only person who DID NOT know that TeaNN’s Dana Bash and John King were seperated and/or divorced??? Where the heck have I been?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/john-king-dana-bash-separate_n_1368911.html

  105. 105.

    MattR

    August 3, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    @eric: Not if it meant I would soon have ZERO 7 of 9s

  106. 106.

    lonesomerobot

    August 3, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    @Amir Khalid: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/what-angelo-dundee-could-have-told-mitt-romney-and-harry-reid/260635/

  107. 107.

    Todd

    August 3, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    @eric:

    if you could have TWO 7 of 9s (or 14 of 18) wouldn’t you at least ask?

    Only if my will was up to date and I’d had a thorough cardio checkup the day before. Admittedly, it could be the greatest minute and 18 seconds of pleasure I could ever have, but the ambulance ride (or sudden demise, with an eternal plastered smile on my face) would be a poor trade.

  108. 108.

    Turgidson

    August 3, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    @MattR:

    Yeah, that must be it. That, and considering how he’s handled the question all this time, he simply thought “I’m Mitt Romney for pete’s sake” and figured he would get away with it because of who.he.is. And he was right until now.

  109. 109.

    Gin & Tonic

    August 3, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    @eric: I don’t know about you, but I only have one dick.

  110. 110.

    Tony J

    August 3, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    @eric:

    Why would he ever give those returns to McCain and why would he ever run for the clown-car GOP nomination with those returns?

    This.

    If the Rom-Con’s income tax returns really are as clean and spotless as Chris Christie’s second dinner plate he’d have released them a long time ago. He hasn’t, so they’re not. There’s something damaging there, something so toxic even he thinks it would make him unelectable.

    Why would the GOP allow Romney to be their standard bearer if they knew – surely word of what McCain’s campaign saw in his 20+ years of returns has to have filtered back to the quiet rooms of the GOP elite – that he had this great big swinging fruit of vulnerability hanging barely inches above the ground? It’s only just August, and already the Obama campaign has Mitt staked out on the desert floor with honey on his nuts and his eyelids in their pocket. The only thing that’s inevitable is that, at some point, the bears and the bees get to fight it out.

  111. 111.

    lonesomerobot

    August 3, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    Sorry for the double post. But there’s no way Harry Reid can prove that I did it.

  112. 112.

    brettvk

    August 3, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    @Carl Nyberg:

    Romney’s excuse for not releasing his full returns is that he doesn’t want Democrats combing through the details and twisting pieces of his return to put him in a negative light.
    OK. This reason doesn’t rise to the level of withholding his returns, but…
    Romney could release the amount he paid without releasing his full returns.
    This would be enough to refute the allegation that Romney paid zero and it would not let Democrats pick through the details of his returns.

    This tactic would also work brilliantly with lo-info voters, who would be impressed with the dollar amount and wouldn’t do the math on the rate — or they wouldn’t care. It’s more than their annual income, so it’s Too Much for a Poor Job Creator to Pay.

  113. 113.

    PeakVT

    August 3, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    I can’t remember if Chait is on the blog’s shit list, but I commend him for rightly noting that mass unemployment just doesn’t matter in Official Washington, and that’s a bad thing.

  114. 114.

    JPL

    August 3, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Here’s my idea for an ad.. Average Americans with true results.. Mitt I paid an effective rate of 21 percent in 2002, what did you pay? Mitt I paid an effective rate of 19 percent in 2003, what did you pay? etc..etc..

  115. 115.

    MattR

    August 3, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Wasn’t one of the arguments made by conservatives that since those 47% pay no income tax, they have no skin in the game and shouldn’t have a say in how that tax money is spent?

  116. 116.

    lonesomerobot

    August 3, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    DAMN YOU WORDPRESS!

  117. 117.

    Ed in NJ

    August 3, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    @Carl Nyberg:

    @Felanius Kootea:

    Actually, Carl, that’s not what she reported. She said that her own source, who was close to Reid, confirmed that the original source is credible.

    From Huffington Post:

    A second source, said to be “close to Senator [Harry] Reid,” has told CNN’s Dana Bash that Reid’s original source for the claim that Mitt Romney “didn’t pay any taxes for 10 years” exists, is a “Bain investor” and a “credible person.” Dana Bash reported on this source, and the person’s willingness to corroborate the allegation to which the Senate majority leader repeated on Thursday’s airing of CNN’s AC360.

  118. 118.

    Cacti

    August 3, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    So, when will he be sending his wife out to defend his honor?

    Then again, last time he did that, Ann went all “you people” on the plebes. So, even his “secret weapon” is firing blanks now.

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    August 3, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    @dmsilev:

    And, as the Ryan episode clearly demonstrates, Barack Obama’s true superpower is to induce his opponents to self-destruct. Appears to still be working.

    Obama and his team are very, very good at figuring out what their opponent is hiding. This is why I’m convinced that there are damaging things in Romney’s taxes — the Obama team doesn’t bluff. If they don’t have you dead to rights about something, they won’t even bring it up.

    @muddy:

    I thought they brought in Keyes later because he was black, and they imagine people would be too confused about who to vote for.

    They brought Keyes in because they couldn’t find an Illinois Republican stupid enough to throw himself on that grenade. The party was already pretty decimated by the George Ryan corruption investigations.

  120. 120.

    yopd1

    August 3, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    This is cool, but sad. A graduate student at Arizona State shamed his insurance company so badly on twitter that he got them to finally pay for his colon cancer treatments that were above his lifetime cap.

    Awesome ending of the story where:

    “Since I don’t need the money to cover my bills (thanks again, @mtbert!), all the money we’ve raised will now go to charity…I hope the Wellness Community, @AZCancerCenter, and @CCAlliance won’t mind getting some big checks from all the money I’ve raised.”

    And to the anti-ACA folks: The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act — aka Obamacare — will eliminate both spending caps and denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions on Jan. 1, 2014.

  121. 121.

    eric

    August 3, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I shall not throw this thread into disrepute, nor shall I force the moderators into frenzied activity, but, allow me to say, that you have missed some of the alternatives available in this possible (though HIGHLY unlikely) universe. Permit me to suggest using teh google and the word threesome. that is all.

  122. 122.

    lamh35

    August 3, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    Damn, WP.

    Anyway, last night someone asked what it was that Bob Costas said that pissed so many people off on twitter. Here it is:

    …”You know, it’s a happy measure of how far we’ve come that it doesn’t seem all that remarkable, but still it’s noteworthy, Gabby Douglas is, as it happens, the first African-American to win the women’s all-around in gymnastics,” Costas intoned, his besuited left elbow resting comfortably on the anchor desk. “The barriers have long since been down, but sometimes there can be an imaginary barrier, based on how one might see oneself.”..

    Here is an accompaning article which essentially tells Costas to stuff it!

    The White World of Sports: What Gabby Douglas’ vault into Olympic history means

    Excerpt from article:

    …In a political and cultural environment in which the patriotism—the very Americanness—of people of color (including the current president of the United States) is often called into question, Costas’s scripted deep thought—his “little homily,” as one Twitterer called it—was at worst dishonest, at best naive. What leveled barriers, I wondered, was Mr. Costas referring to? Who, excepting the most Pollyanna-ish or cloistered of cultural observers—the type who assert the legitimacy of phrases like “post-racial”—would believe that Gabby Douglas’ challenges were primarily psychic, a statement that can be contradicted by pretty much any news story or feature profile on the 16-year old gymnast, all of which make no secret of the undeniable whiteness of being that is high-level American gymnastics? “Bob Costas just re-affirmed that the success of a black person means we’re not racist anymore. THANK GOD THAT’S OVER,” wrote the political writer Ana Marie Cox. A few moments later she offered a revision of sorts: “Ok what he said was ‘a barrier has fallen’ or somesuch but one person over the wall does not a fallen barrier make. TAKES NOTHING FROM GABS.”..

    ETA:

    Costas, of course, did have a point: Our ideas about ourselves, no matter our color, often prove as limiting and toxic as the external and institutional roadblocks put in our way. But you can’t have one without the other. In this, Douglas’ triumph seems extremely remarkable, both because of the commonality of her situation—the big dreams, the economic hardships, the one-parent household—and its unusualness: a minority in a historically “white” sport.

  123. 123.

    bemused senior

    August 3, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    @Amir Khalid: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/what-angelo-dundee-could-have-told-mitt-romney-and-harry-reid/260635/

    I guess I couldn’t provide the link to the old news clipping of Harry in the ring…look at the post to find it.

  124. 124.

    muddy

    August 3, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    @Todd: \Not just sexually greedy, just greedy greedy. He’s a Republican, res ipsa loquitur.

  125. 125.

    Gin & Tonic

    August 3, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    @eric: I am aware of the alternatives, but I might be the only guy in the known universe who doesn’t necessarily find them all that appealing. In addition to having only one dick, I have some sort of condition which allows me to fully concentrate on only one task at a time.

    Hope this doesn’t get posted three or four times.

  126. 126.

    Pat

    August 3, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    Muskie was done in by our old friend David Broder who greatly exaggerated the incident, which was Muskie standing in a snowstorm and being choked up and angry over one of Nixon’s dirty campaign tricks. Contra other reporters there, Broder led off with “tears streaming down his face…” Muskie wasn’t sobbing.
    Broder, brooks, et al. Very serious people all making their careers by making stuff up.

  127. 127.

    wrb

    August 3, 2012 at 7:26 pm

    @Turgidson:

    Which was working because our press is made up of jr high schoolers. If he seems alpha and rich he’s untouchable. But once he went to Europe and looked like he was a bumbling geek competing for the Upper Class Twit of The Year medal their vicious little fangs come out and he’s their meat.

    It isn’t clear that he’s made the complete transition from Alpha Cool Car to Geek Meat, and he could still recover, but at the moment he’s looking juicy.

  128. 128.

    karen marie

    August 3, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    I do not understand why Romney refuses to release his tax returns. He keeps saying that the wealthy pay too much in taxes. Here he has a perfect opportunity to demonstrate the truth of that.

    Gosh, you don’t suppose he can’t release them because it would prove that his entire argument in favor of lowering taxes on “job creators” is nothing but bullshit, do you?

  129. 129.

    jeffreyw

    August 3, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Thread needs moar puppeh.

  130. 130.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    August 3, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    @MattR:

    Persactly, and I am going to assume that is exactly the point they are going to use for Romney,and are going to shoot themselves in the foot with it, or try and stick us in the gut with it. It just means we have to wait to see which version of the truth they go with.

  131. 131.

    gogol's wife

    August 3, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    @Pat:

    Okay, I’m dating myself, especially since I admitted seeing the Buckley-Vidal fight live when it happened, but I saw this when it happened too, and it wasn’t a “snowstorm” but a gentle incipient snowfall, and it did look as if flakes were landing and melting on Muskie’s eyelashes, as he later claimed.

    ETA: All of which is to say that, yes, he apparently wasn’t sobbing, but that’s the legend that has been printed.

  132. 132.

    Martin

    August 3, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    @Todd:

    On a non-political vein, in what kind of fucked up mind is Jeri Ryan not good enough all by her lonesome, to the point of wanting a supercharged bi-tryst? How sexually greedy does one man need to be?

    Everyone has their own thing.

    And just because Jeri Ryan is your wife, doesn’t mean Jeri Ryan is still into you. Granted, that seems like an inopportune time to request such a thing, but having a hot wife doesn’t always translate into having the expected benefits of having a hot wife.

  133. 133.

    Martin

    August 3, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    @karen marie: Probably the opposite. His argument that 39% is an absurdly and counterproductively high tax rate falls pretty flat when he actually only paid 13%. It’s hard to argue for tax reform when nobody actually pays the rate you claim is burdening everyone.

  134. 134.

    gogol's wife

    August 3, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    @Pat:

    For some reason my addition to my comment above has been marked for moderation. I just wanted to say that you’re right about the main point — he wasn’t sobbing, even though that’s what everyone seems to think now.

  135. 135.

    gogol's wife

    August 3, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    Okay, and now my whole comment about Muskie’s press conference has disappeared, even though it was there a few seconds ago. I quit.

  136. 136.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 3, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    @karen marie:

    Can’t be that.

    Something else is going on.

    Can’t imagine what it might be, though.

    All I know is that OvenMitt seems to have perfected rectal-cranial self inversion.

  137. 137.

    Dennis SGMM

    August 3, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    @wrb:
    The media’s need for a presidential horse race, not to mention its need to not upset the apple cart, will trump any need that it might feel to do any investigative reporting on Romney’s taxes. Anything known to someone outside of Romney’s immediate coterie is known to others. Lamentably, our press corpse is unlikely to seek them out.

  138. 138.

    Jess

    August 3, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    Obviously, Mitt Romney, as a moderate Republican, shares the concerns that so many others in his party have about the extremism of the current GOP. Unlike the others, he’s decided to take effective action by seizing the nomination and then destroying his own candidacy in order to ensure that the GOP/Teaparty spends another 4 years in exile to regain their collective sanity.

    Mitt Romney is a true patriot.

  139. 139.

    lamh35

    August 3, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    Man, if this is some “dan rather” false documents type of thing, then Harry Reid has a major poker face, because he aint’ backing down!

    Harry Reid Fundraises Off Of Charge That Romney Didn’t Pay Taxes For Ten Years

    The other day, I said that I’d been told by a very credible source that Mitt Romney hadn’t paid taxes for ten years. Governor Romney got upset. But, you know what? I’m not backing down.
    I’m not backing down because, when you run for President, you should be an open book. I’m not backing down because Mitt Romney is hiding something — and the American people deserve to know what it is.
    Governor Romney told me to “put up or shut up” — but he’s the one who’s shut up when people asked legitimate questions about his finances, and it’s up to him to put up his taxes so we can see the answers.

  140. 140.

    danielx

    August 3, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    Ah yes, the Ibogaine Effect. It worked on the Man from Maine, why not the Man from Massachusetts? Of course, given the rate at which the Marquis is screwing the pooch, administration may have already taken place. It would explain a lot, certainly.

    Is it irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to…

    Peggy Noonan may be a walking, talking monument as to why one should avoid spirituous liquors before exposing oneself to the media, but we all owe her a great debt for coming up with that line.

  141. 141.

    lamh35

    August 3, 2012 at 7:43 pm

    um, why am I in moderation???

    Man, if this is some “dan rather” false documents type of thing, then Harry Reid has a major pok-er face, because he aint’ backing down!

    Harry Reid Fundraises Off Of Charge That Romney Didn’t Pay Taxes For Ten Years

  142. 142.

    danielx

    August 3, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    As to what’s on the agenda, going to Radio Radio to see the semi-legendary Bigger Than Elvis. Featuring lead guitarist who sings like Roy Orbison and is not only bigger than Elvis but may well be bigger than Graceland.

    There’s a place downtown
    Where the hippies all go
    And they dance the Charleston
    And they do the limbo…

  143. 143.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    @lamh35:

    From you link. Emphasis in the original:

    ” The other day, I said that I’d been told by a very credible source that Mitt Romney hadn’t paid taxes for ten years. Governor Romney got upset. But, you know what? I’m not backing down.

    I’m not backing down because, when you run for President, you should be an open book. I’m not backing down because Mitt Romney is hiding something — and the American people deserve to know what it is. ”

    I have been making some Mark Twain style parodies of Reid, but WTH has got into Reid? Either Reid has got some cold info that nails Mitt on income taxes, or he is so dead set to defeat Romney he is going all in 1000 percent on his bluff.

    If it is a bluff, and Reid keeps it up, and it gets called, I think it will damage Reid and his leadership in the Senate. But maybe Reid hates Romney so much he has really gone honey badger: he don’t care, he don’t give a shit. Harry Reid is angry, and a brother better get out of the way.

  144. 144.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 3, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    @Turgidson:

    The man is arrogant.

    He thinks that the rules that apply to everyone else don’t apply to him.

    He actually imagines himself an aristocrat, above these piddling legal and moral rules that others must obey.

    I am enjoying every fucking second of this asshole’s comeuppance.

  145. 145.

    wrb

    August 3, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    @jl:

    If it is a bluff, and Reid keeps it up, and it gets called, I think it will damage Reid and his leadership in the Senate.

    I really don’t.

    I think it will be considered a damn ballsy bluff that caused Twitt to yield & show his returns, which will be plenty damaging.

    Win for Harry.

    Reid does represent a poker playing state, after all.

    After Mitt folds, Harry can say, “oh well, I guess my source was mistaken, that’s too bad.”

  146. 146.

    Turgidson

    August 3, 2012 at 8:02 pm

    @jl:

    Either that, or Reid knows what’s really in Mitt’s tax returns and is using this bluff to flush Mitt out of his spider hole and force him to release them just to shut him up – but in so doing, revealing something equally horrible or worse, like L. O’Donnell’s felony theory.

    I doubt it’s that fiendish, but who knows. It seems obvious from the way they’re goading Mittens that the Obama campaign, and possibly Reid acting independently of the campaign (or not), already know there’s some crazy shit in there. It might be the “no taxes” thing, or something else.

  147. 147.

    Turgidson

    August 3, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Yeah, I think that’s the crux of it. That, and just wanting to be the richest fuck he can possibly be.

    And the fact that he won the governorship without having to give up the goods might have emboldened him to think he could do it again in the national campaign.

    The man is a festering boil on this country’s festering boil of a political system. Soulless, lying and unfathomably greedy sack of shit. Keep thrashing him, Team Obama.

  148. 148.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    @Turgidson: Suddenly, I am a big Harry Reid fan. Who would have thunk?

    Anyone on McCains 2008 team who was invested in Bain?

    There is so much dislike of Mitt out there, I wouldn’t be that surprised if there are two independent leaks. Someone(s) from gramps’ campaign leaks through staid conventional DC channels, and a pissed off member of Mormon elite out west gets on the horn and starts dishing to Reid.

  149. 149.

    Catsy

    August 3, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    @Carl Nyberg:

    More evidence that he will be easy to goad into making mistakes if he were to become POTUS (which he won’t be).

    …or in the debates.

    Guarantee it, folks. There will be debates, and at some point during them Obama is going to pull some rhetorical ninjitsu or just plain corner Romney on facts. Competent moderation will help immensely, but I’m pretty sure O can hold his own and Romney can’t. Mittens is going to get called on his bullshit and it’s going to make him blow his cool.

    We might even approach the ni-CLANG event horizon as far as McCain’s “that one” moment, or closer.

    Also, this:

    I am enjoying every fucking second of this asshole’s comeuppance.

    And this:

    The man is a festering boil on this country’s festering boil of a political system. Soulless, lying and unfathomably greedy sack of shit. Keep thrashing him, Team Obama.

    Watching the worst elements of the GOP get dragged down by the death throes of Mitt Romney’s career is going to be delicious.

  150. 150.

    Brandon

    August 3, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    During the primaries, when it was campaign against campaign, Mitt always took a beating in the polls. He was an absolute failure at making the case to voters as to why they should elect him. And this was against such luminaries as Cain, Santorum and Gingrich. His reponse was the same each time, money. He (and his SuperPAC) buried his opponents in a torrent of negative advertising that they could not match. If I recall correctly, 99% of his primary campaign commercials were negative.

    I don’t watch television, so I have no clue what ads are on the airways. But since I have not seen any news reports on Mitt’s negative ads, I have to assume that he is keeping his powder dry at the moment. After all, why waste money on advertising in the middle of summer when everyone is on vacation or watching the olympics?

    So we all know that ‘going negative’ is the only means that Mitt has at his disposal to campaign in any effective manner, because every time he is on television himself his favorability goes down. So my question is, when will his negative ads start? I see that he is auditioning his Veep candidate based on tryouts to see who is the best at bad mouthing Obama. But when do the commercials start? When is are these billions of dollars of Citizens United money supposed to hit?

    My guess is that they are going to follow the Andy Card strategy and wait until after Labor Day.

  151. 151.

    dogwood

    August 3, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    @eric:

    insufficient tithing.

    This is one area where Romney is lucky. The press and general public think Mormonism is just another Christian denomination with a few twists like magic underwear. I can guarantee you that Romney never once in his adult life failed to tithe. I can also guarantee that as a Bishop, people in his ward would have had to show him their tax information in order to prove that they tithed. If they couldn’t prove it, he would withdraw their Temple recommend. A Mormon without a Temple recommend is a pariah in the community.

  152. 152.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    @dogwood:

    ” I can also guarantee that as a Bishop, people in his ward would have had to show him their tax information in order to prove that they tithed. If they couldn’t prove it, he would withdraw their Temple recommend. A Mormon without a Temple recommend is a pariah in the community. ”

    If what you say is true, that is an excellent training ground to produce insufferable arrogant jerks, for those with the predisposition.

  153. 153.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    @Brandon: That is why important to start revealing Romney for what he is right now, before the barrage of negative misleading ads come out.

  154. 154.

    dogwood

    August 3, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    @wrb:

    After Mitt folds, Harry can say, “oh well, I guess my source was mistaken, that’s too bad.”

    I imagine if it is proved that Reid’s source lied, Harry will out the source. No one is obligated to protect the privacy of someone who lied to them. I also imagine Harry made that pretty clear to the source before he went public.

  155. 155.

    Catsy

    August 3, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    @Brandon:

    So we all know that ‘going negative’ is the only means that Mitt has at his disposal to campaign in any effective manner, because every time he is on television himself his favorability goes down.

    And this, in essence, is why I’m not worried about Citizens United turning the tide in this election. Negative advertising gets to a point of diminishing returns where it starts hurting you more than your target. Not only are people sick of it by now after the freak-show that was the GOP primary, most of what team Romney produces is horribly ineffectual stuff that is only persuasive to true believers.

  156. 156.

    Carl Nyberg

    August 3, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    @dogwood:

    I can also guarantee that as a Bishop, people in his ward would have had to show him their tax information in order to prove that they tithed.

    It’s not too hard to imagine someone in the church feeling Romney is a tool.

    So, someone who saw the return who dislikes Romney provide the info to Reid through Church of LDS channels.

    Reid kinda got the story from a Bain source too. But why would some Bain investor or executive have seen Romney’s personal tax return? (Unless they used the same accountant and the accountant boasted what he did for Romney…)

  157. 157.

    mamayaga

    August 3, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    @Carl Nyberg: @Carl Nyberg: An LDS source and a Bain source could be the same person.

    Also, too, I could see the Mittster himself being the braggart, in that insufferable 1%, “I’m better than you” way that he has.

  158. 158.

    dogwood

    August 3, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    @jl:

    If what you say is true,

    I’m assuming you aren’t implying that I’m lying, but I will qualify the statement. I am not a Mormon, but I live in Mormon country. I don’t know what sort of documentation a Bishop will accept. Maybe paystubs, W_2’s or perhaps full tax returns are necessary. But I do know that you don’t go into your yearly review and say cross my heart and hope to die, I really only make 20 grand a year.

  159. 159.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    @Carl Nyberg:

    Or Romney bragging in the quiet back rooms what he did for himself. One of the few things I have heard Romney say during the campaign was in a clip of him talking to some teabaggers: I pay every dollar of taxes I owe, and NOT A DIME MORE. It sounded to me like that last bit really came from the heart.

  160. 160.

    jl

    August 3, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    @dogwood: No, I wasn’t implying that I thought you were lying. I was just curious how you knew. Thanks for the info.

  161. 161.

    WereBear

    August 3, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    @Carl Nyberg: Reid kinda got the story from a Bain source too. But why would some Bain investor or executive have seen Romney’s personal tax return? (Unless they used the same accountant and the accountant boasted what he did for Romney…)

    I can see this being common knowledge at a certain level. I’m sure it’s a form of Galtian one-up-manship:

    So I shipped the workers to a country where slavery is legal, deducted the market value of their organs, and claimed the loss. It wiped out my immense profit from selling their factory, and I didn’t pay a penny that year. Barkeep! Another Screw-the-Peasants, and don’t skimp on that lemon rind, you hear?

  162. 162.

    Mnemosyne

    August 3, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    @Martin:

    Also, too, once you start hinting to your hot (or even your not-so-hot) wife that she’s not quite enough to keep you interested and she really needs to start letting third parties into the bedroom to keep you from being bored, it’s pretty much guaranteed that your wife is going to very quickly lose any interest she had in you. (ETA: Well, unless your wife is also into that kind of thing, in which case the question is, why didn’t you know this earlier?)

    Frankly, the whole “sex club”/sex in public thing is particularly creepy when your wife is a well-known actress. Like, “Hey, lookit me, I’m having sex with Seven of Nine! Right here! In front of you!”

  163. 163.

    dogwood

    August 3, 2012 at 9:01 pm

    @mamayaga:

    An LDS source and a Bain source could be the same person.

    Bingo! I have no doubt that Bain Capital was a vehicle for rich Mormon investors and for the LDS Church itself. I know I’m probably pissing some people off who think I’m Mormon bashing. Six to 8 month ago I had a similar conversation with Kay in a Romney thread. What people often fail to understand is that you can never understand the first thing about Mitt unless you understand Mormonism and the role of the Bishop and Stake president in the lives of ordinary Mormons. Romney’s world view, financial philosophy and sense of superiority and entitlement come from his place in the Mormon hierarchy. He really is LDS royalty. His shitty personality, however, has nothing to do with Mormonism. He’s just a class-a douche all on his own.

    In defense of Mormon bishops, the father-in-law of a close friend was a Bishop. He was notorious because no one in his Ward ever lost their Temple Recommend. According to his son, his father either gave the family money to meet their tithing requirement or he simply cooked the books. He was a great man.

  164. 164.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 3, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    @Catsy:

    most of what team Romney produces is horribly ineffectual stuff that is only persuasive to true believers

    True believers who must be constantly pandered to, because deep down they do not trust the cultist. No way, no how. They’re stuck with him, but they’re not happy. They must be constantly appeased, which means Rmoney cannot tack to the center. The true believers demand he keep going starboard, even as they approach the lee shore.

  165. 165.

    Catsy

    August 3, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Unfortunately that’s a tar pit for Romney. The more he panders to the base, the less appealing he is to everyone else. And at best that has him treading water. That’s not enough–the problem is that his favorability is underwater and he needs to change that if he doesn’t want to be crushed in a blowout even more severely than McCain in 2008.

  166. 166.

    PeakVT

    August 3, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    @mamayaga: Hmm… I never considered the possibility that someone in the LDS would dish about Romney’s taxes. That’s interesting.

  167. 167.

    WaterGirl

    August 3, 2012 at 9:50 pm

    Given the context, I am afraid to google 7 of 9. Can some kind soul enlighten me?

  168. 168.

    PeakVT

    August 3, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    @WaterGirl: ST:VOY eye candy. SFW.

  169. 169.

    mclaren

    August 3, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Romney doesn’t just look cagey, whiny and powerless, he is cagey, whiny and powerless.

    Why d’ya think he’s running for president? He wants to fix the last part.

  170. 170.

    mclaren

    August 3, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    @Catsy:

    the problem is that his favorability is underwater…

    That’s kind of an understatement, don’t you think? Polls show Romney at least 20 points behind Obama on every quality from likeability to believability.

    Reminds me of back in 2008, when Satan polled better “favorable ratings” than the drunk-driving C students in the Oval Office. (I am not making that up. A pollster included Satan in the poll, and the devil got better favorability ratings than Bush.)

  171. 171.

    Mnemosyne

    August 3, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Nothing scary — that was the name of the character that Jeri Ryan (the ex-Mrs. Jack Ryan) played on “Star Trek: Voyager.”

  172. 172.

    Catsy

    August 3, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    @mclaren: It most certainly is an understatement. But I was speaking *cough* conservatively.

    Romney is kind of screwed, and has no one to blame but himself. He’s dug himself deep enough that there really are no good options ahead of him–just varying degrees of taking his lumps or the vain hope that bluster and mendacity will carry him through the shitstorm.

  173. 173.

    WaterGirl

    August 3, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    @PeakVT: @Mnemosyne: Thanks!

  174. 174.

    CW in LA

    August 3, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    @WaterGirl: Unbelievably hot character on Star Trek: Voyager.

    In fact, you’ll have to excuse me…

  175. 175.

    karen marie

    August 3, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    @Turgidson: I vote for “something else” (although it would not surprise me in the least that he paid no taxes in at least one year). The “something else” could even be simply that Romney’s tax returns reflect how the wealthy have totally gamed the system. If the voters see that they are going to start questioning continued tax breaks for the likes of him.

  176. 176.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 3, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    @PeakVT:

    Not just eye candy.

    Jeri Ryan can ACT. She demonstrated that on several occasions on Voyager, particularly the episode where The Doctor “possessed” her.

  177. 177.

    Anne Laurie

    August 4, 2012 at 12:07 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: Agreed. She’s now playing the second female lead in Body of Proof — just behind Dana Delany. They don’t take their clothes off, much, but both acting chops and eye candy are fully evident.

  178. 178.

    Another Halocene Human

    August 4, 2012 at 12:12 am

    @Mnemosyne: Her argument in court was that she was “humiliated” and angered because being in a situation like that in public could damage her career.

  179. 179.

    Jay in Oregon

    August 4, 2012 at 1:07 am

    @Anne Laurie:
    She also had a brief stint on Leverage as Tara Cole, a grifter and associate of Sophie Devereaux (Gina Bellman).

  180. 180.

    PeakVT

    August 4, 2012 at 1:11 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: When the producers took her out of that ridiculous suit, Ryan seemed to do a competent job of acting. Otherwise… well, I was younger then..

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