It’s not just about chicken.
I called up my mom once and said, “I think I have a crush on a girl.” My mom’s response? “Oh, that’s nice.” Like I had just told her I’d had a nice piece of fish for dinner. That was it. I wasn’t coming out to her (I’m straight — it turns out I just really liked this girl’s brain and I’d been watching too much The L Word), I was just, sort of, floating a lesbian trial balloon, I guess. I felt like telling someone and I tell my mom everything.
So when I see this sort of thing, it makes me sad: A Reddit user shared this heartbreaking letter in which his father disowned him for being gay. I want to cry for him. I’ve been lucky to have two amazing parents who have supported me in everything that I’ve done and become (and then unbecome, as the case may be) and I cannot imagine what being disowned because of who you are must feel like.
From Gawker:
The letter in question arrived a week after RegBarc gave his dad the news over the phone.
“I hope your telephone call was not to receive my blessing for the degrading of your lifestyle,” his father’s “difficult but necessary letter” begins. “I have fond memories of our times together, but that is all in the past. Don’t expect any further conversations With me. No communications at all.”
It gets worse:
God did not intend for this unnatural lifestyle. If you choose not to attend my funeral, my friends and family will understand. Have a good birthday and good life. No present exchanges will be accepted. Goodbye, Dad.
RegBarc and his dad remain estranged from one another and haven’t talked since, but he says he’s mostly moved on. “5 years on and I am still doing fine, though this letter saunters into my mind every once in a while,” RegBarc writes. “When it does, I say without hesitation: Fuck you, Dad.”
The Chick-fil-A nonsense has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with the fact that Dan Cathy’s company donates money to organizations that cause real harm to LGBT folk.
[full post at ABLC]
tulip
I’m not a parent, but I don’t understand how one could do that. But I’m glad RegBarc seems to have moved on.
Fuck you dad, indeed.
Emma
Lord God. One thing to say for my to-the-right-of-Genghis-Khan father. Family’s family. My cousin and his partner are as welcome as anyone else. In fact, better. My dad loves them both. And when I asked what would happen if they decided to get married, he just said, “you and your sister deal with the gift and just point me to the Church.”
BGinCHI
We hope our kid is gay.
Good fashion sense, fit, liberal-minded, etc.
What’s the down side?
/this is not snark
Soonergrunt
I wonder if RegBarc’s father is still alive. And if he has died without trying to reconcile with his son, I hope that there is justice in this universe, and that he died alone and afraid. For he will have certainly passed unlamented.
BethanyAnne
I was lucky; I only lost my brother. I’ve known others who lost their entire families. It feels like it is slowly getting better, but it’s still a risk, especially if you are coming out as trans.
Comrade Dread
That’s tragic.
There isn’t anything that would drive me away from my son. He’s my boy. Period.
And I never saw Jesus shunning anyone. He always had time to talk to people, even those who wanted to kill Him..
Miki
Couldn’t finish it. I struggle enough with the passive/aggressive artifacts of my German/Swedish/Norwegian heritage but a direct psychic slice through my ego would kill me – still.
And provoke an unspeakably violent response.
Fuck you, dad.
Linda Featheringill
It’s dangerous to come out. I think most people lose somebody. But to lose your parents has got to be very painful.
I was pretty isolated from my family because of political and philosophical stances anyway, so I just never talked about my sex life.
They didn’t accept me anyway so why bother.
[Do you think they might have liked me better if I had told them?]
ETA:
Fuck you, Dad.
ericblair
@tulip:
Well, I’m a parent and I could no more disown my children then cut my own arm off with a knife. I don’t know how fucking twisted you have to be inside to cast out your children forever for what they are.
Josie
I just cannot fathom raising a child to young adulthood, with all the history that entails, and then turning your back on him or her. I might as well cut off my arm as abandon one of my sons.
Steve
I will have a hard time explaining to my grandkids that this stuff used to happen. If we’re lucky, maybe it will even be hard to explain to my kids.
On some level it’s the dad I really feel sorry for here. What a shame to not be able to love your own son.
Cole Moore Odell
An utter failure as a father and a human being…but not for the reason he imagines.
Josie
@ericblair: Honest, I didn’t copy you. You just type faster than I do.
Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
What an asshole. It must be hard for the son, even if he’s handling it well, but in all truth, he’s better off without a “father” like that. We just had our second little girl this morning, and I can’t even dream of ever telling her or her sister, “Get out of my life. I don’t want to ever see you again.” I feel kind of sorry fir the father, too, in a weird way; it’s his loss, and it must suck to live like that. Still, he’s an asshole.
SiubhanDuinne
@Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):
Oh, congratulations on the new baby! Maybe you posted about it in an earlier thread, but this morning you were just waiting for
Mrs. Horrendo Slapp ((formerly Jimpescrew it, YOUR WIFE to tell you it was time. So I’m glad things moved swiftly, and hope everyone is happy and healthy.Might we see a picture? If we ask politely?
ItAintEazy
Hate the sin, not the sinner, eh?
I’ll just add another “Fuck you dad.”
Gex
Come on, let’s give the guy a break. In his belief system, God can ask you to kill your own child, and you are supposed to do it. If God simply asks you to disown your child, that’s a piece of cake. His son lives and his God is pleased. What more do you people want?
ETA: /snark
EriktheRed
I’ll be the first to admit it’s mean, but I kinda wish the guy’s father could get daily reminders of his son doing well and saying, “Fuck you Dad”.
bin Lurkin'
I’ve seen people disowned very similarly for “coming out” as an atheist, as a commenter above in a mixed race marriage pointed out it’s not just gays that get this kind of treatment.
Google “deconversion stories”, certainly not every one is a tale of woe but there are more than a few that have this level of hatred and bile at some point.
ETA: The common thread with all the stories seems unsurprisingly to be fundamentalist religion.
Pen
I have entire wings of my family who’ve disowned me for not being a “True Amurkin” Fox news acolyte. I have another who doesn’t want my two-year old son around their children because he might infect them with the atheist cooties. Still, none of that compares to having your own parents kick you out of their life for something you literally have no control over. If my son turns out to be gay I couldn’t imagine doing anything but doing the annoying father bit and embarassing him in front of his date. The idea that I could shun him? Never. If he’s happy that’s all I care about.
Anyone that does wholeheartedly deserves a “Fuck you, Dad”. RegBarc’s better off without that asshole in his life.
Elizabelle
Congratulations Mumphrey and Mrs. Mumphrey and Big Sister Mumphrey.
HEY YOU
I’m glad that there are so many that think they are qualified to pass any slight judgment on a relationship in which they aren’t involved. As for me, I’m Perfect.
The Other Bob
@Gex:
Nothing like disowning the child your raised standing in front of you for the supernatural that has no evidence.
The Other Bob
@HEY YOU:
Yes, normal people ARE qualified to pass judgement on a father who disowns his son, for…well anything. Even the parents of mass murderers stick by their kids.
Brian R.
As a father of two, I am baffled by this. There is nothing my kids could do to make me disown them. Literally nothing.
The guy who wrote that letter may have been his biological father, but he sure as shit was never a Dad. A Dad would take a bullet for his kid without thinking, would do anything he could to protect him, would fight off the whole fucking world if it came down to it.
The guy who wrote that letter was a sperm donor. Nothing more.
Silver
Read that letter and listen to Bad Religion by Motörhead. Pretty appropriate soundtrack for it, I think.
Miki
@HEY YOU: Seriously? “Don’t attend my funeral?” I dunno – this kind of shit doesn’t seem all that, um, ambiguous to me. The guy has decided to tell his kid that he hates him because the kid is gay.
Jesus fucking christ – sometimes you gotta judge.
Repressive tolerance and all that ….
raven
I have a friend who has honorable discharges from the Army, Marines, and Air Force and his family disowned him because he didn’t go into the Navy. I swear to god.
jrg
@HEY YOU: Why wouldn’t someone be justified in passing judgement? The father cites his reasons explicitly in the letter.
Count me in with the others here. I can’t imagine disowning my daughter for something like this. “Values” like that are so alien (and evil, IMO), I can’t even begin to wrap my head around them.
greennotGreen
I was disowned once upon a time because my boyfriend was black and I’m white. When we broke up, suddenly I was family again. I was bitter for awhile, but I just accept that some people cannot love as deeply as others, and each of us can only do the best that we can.
Unfortunately, this man’s father is not capable of loving his son even though his son challenges the father’s belief system. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, but he did say, “Love one another.” I guess that’s beyond this father’s ability. We should pity him. And we should celebrate the son and hope that his life is filled with love.
Djur
Someone like that doesn’t deserve to have anyone attend their funeral.
Pen
@HEY YOU: You’re fucking right I”m going to pass judgement on a homophobic biggot who shuns his own child for being gay.
This isn’t some abstract “we need more facts before we decide” situation” and there’s literally no reason that letter should have ever been written.
As for slight judgement? No, I’ll stick with my first answer, “Fuck you”. And in this case, fuck you too HEY YOU. People with your attitude towards this problem are as bad as the homophobes.
Yoki
That poor man–and I mean the father. As mother to two lesbian daughters who have brought into our family two wonderful partners, I know that he has cut himself off from a world of riches. It never ceases to amaze me how people will embrace hate, bitterness, resentment, and make these the focus of their lives.
Pen
@Brian R.: This, 100%.
RedKitten
Some people are just so fucking hateful. I adore my child with every fibre of my being, and will adore his on-the-way sibling just as much. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine ever turning my back on my own sweet child and saying, “Never speak to me again.”
What is WRONG with people? It’s not all religion — there are plenty of religious people with gay family members who still manage to somehow reconcile the two, even if it’s the odious “hate the sin, love the sinner” bullshit. But to just walk away from your baby boy?
That’s no father. That’s a hateful, ugly waste of a man, and I join heartily in the “fuck you” sent his way.
raven
The film La Mission is about a similar situation in a Latino family in, well, La Mission.
Elmo
Oh my fucking god. Thank you, Dad.
My Dad is a right wing McCarthyite Fox Newser, 80 years old, who freely leaves off the CLANG when he talks about the President. But he has accepted my partner freely, and often tells me he’s proud of me.
Do I suspect he would rather I’d been “normal?”. Sure, I suspect it. But he has never, ever, EVER given me any evidence to support that suspicion.
I love you, Dad.
jrg
@RedKitten: That’s kind of how I feel about it. Reading this letter makes me more confused than angry. There’s something about these people I will never, ever understand.
WaterGirl
I think this is the worst part. Translation: We’re never going to get past this. I am going to die and you are never going to see me again before that happens. “My friends and family will understand.” Not “our family”, but “my family”, meaning my family is no longer your family.
What a hateful, cold-hearted bastard. That letter would have broken my heart, Not sure I would have gotten over it. Thank god for anger to get you through.
Edit: Oh, and “have a good birthday and a good life”. Could he be more passive aggressive? Not possible, I think.
raven
This is a film about my good friends and their trans-gender child (well, it is about Kade). Just Call Me Kade. The film is over 10 years old and Kade is doing great now. Supportive parents and community were everything.
Miki
@Elmo: Thanks for this – I know it’s not every dad/mom/family that’s so hateful. There are probably many, many more that love, love, love their son/daughter/brother/sister, etc., than actively hate them like the dad in this letter does.
But the haters deserve our smackdowns.
And the lovers deserve our hearts ….
WaterGirl
Somebody needs to find and post the awesome video of the gay wedding of someone who lurks here on BJ. I tried to see if I had bookmarked it, but couldn’t find it.
It would be a great antidote to this hateful letter.
raven
@WaterGirl: The father in the movie I mentioned is from Urbana.
Uncle Ebeneezer
Ah what great things religion bestowes upon us!!
I raise my middle finger to Dad, Jesus, and his dad too (after all, they’re kinda at the heart of the problem)
WaterGirl
@raven: Would it depress me?
Brian R.
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
Jesus never said anything about gays, and by his example, spent plenty of time with people who were social outcasts in his time.
Many of the people who elected themselves his spokesmen, though, they suck.
greennotGreen
@Brian R.: Back before I decided I really wasn’t a Christian, I used to say, Christ was crucified, he died, he rose from the dead, he ascended into heaven, and Christians have been crucifying him ever since.
Bailey
I wonder if his mom, de facto, cut herself off as well.
Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
@SiubhanDuinne:
Thank you all for the good wishes. I’ll try to put up a snapshot when we get some onto the compooter. I think she looks a little like Wallace Shawn; I keep waiting for her to say, “Inconceivable!”
@HEY, YOU:
Hey, HEY YOU, Fuck you. I don’t need to read a court transcript to know this “father” sucks ass. People who do shit like that are, well, I don’t know what they are, since, luckily for me, I’ve never run across anybody that repellent. This guy had to choose between trying to understand and keep loving his son, whose “lifestyle” he didn’t like, and telling him to fuck off for the rest of their lives. He chose to tell his son to fuck off. I don’t care how much money he gives to charity or how much he loves his wife or his other children or any shit like that. Disowning somebody for being gay speaks for itself.
raven
@WaterGirl: Hell no. He and his ex were great with Kade. After all the stuff Kade went through he was even dad’s best man at his second wedding. We were all on Lincoln Ave for the parade last year on the 4th. It’s a great story about great people. My buddy’s mom was a columnist for the Courier and her office was where the eatery is now.
Recall
@EriktheRed: I’d like to do something to the father, but nothing comes close to what he’s done to himself.
beergoggles
For a lot of gay people of my generation this was pretty run of the mill. This is why we moved to big cities, where we could create our own families because we didn’t have biological ones to go back to.
It’s gutwrenching that it still happens. More often that a solitary letter would indicate. 40% of homeless youth are LGBT and I have no idea if this one thing has actually gotten better.
Elmo
@Miki:
Yeah – that’s why I wanted to say it. My Dad has lots of faults, but he loves me and accepts my partner. We never had a big talk about it – I never even explicitly told him I was gay – but he’s always just accepted both of us as a couple without question.
He’s an 80 year old high school dropout, career Navy veteran, with a second career at the phone company for 20 years. He gave me my love of reading and science fiction. He taught me that I can do anything. Everything I’ve done has made him proud, and he says so. I love him. Thank FSM for my Dad.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@BGinCHI:
Gay does not imply Liberal-minded. More gay men voted for McCain than Obama (no, I don’t remember where I saw it).
Patricia Kayden
Unfortunately, parents disowning their own children when the children come out as gay seems to happen all too often. Recall reading a letter to Dan Savage where a Christian fundamentalist family dumped their newly out son on the doorstop of a lesbian aunt. “He’s yours”, or words to that effect when they dropped him off. Sad that some people feel so strongly about homosexuality that they’d abandon their own flesh and blood because of it.
WaterGirl
@raven: Oh, I thought you meant the other movie you mentioned – the one about the Latino family who went through the same sort of thing this guy did.
I will check out the movie sometime – the link is taking forever to come up. Will I recognize Kade in any of your photos?
raven
@Patricia Kayden: My charismatic surfer christian sister has done a pretty good job of accepting her oldest daughter’s lesbianism but she told me she drew the line at “marchin in some parade”!
raven
@WaterGirl: La Mission is very well done IMHO. It was directed and stars Benjamin Bratt who grew up in the hood. Great music, funny in parts, great cars and a wrenching story. Worth a look.
lowrider scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd89ng0W9Sg&feature=fvwrel
Ruckus
Two points.
My sister was gay and when she came out there was a lot of tension in the parental units. A lot. And yet they never kicked her out of their lives and accepted her black partner. And that’s pretty good coming from people who taught me a number of racial slurs as a youngster.
I was involved with a single mom, young daughter. I have no kids of my own but I would have given my life for that little girl. Turn her away? There was no reason on earth possible for that.
Fuck this dad.
Sometimes kids really are better off without their parents.
W. Kiernan
Well sure I could see myself writing a harsh-ass letter like that to one of my kids. But flip it over, and on the back side it would read “Just kidding! Love you always, Pops”
pluege
a parent that can’t accept their child for who they are, independent of them isn’t a parent worth having.
It is indisputable that many, many people who have children shouldn’t – they are not suited to the task. A child not born is better than a child subject to the twisted psyches of what passes for adults in this society.
Soonergrunt
@raven: I can’t think that there’s ever a good reason to disown one’s child, but that’s just fucked up, no two ways about it.
If he had not joined the Army, OTOH…
Interrobang
My heart broke reading that letter.
When I was in my early 20s, a friend of a friend’s hyper-Christian family kicked him out of the house when he came out. At the time, he was a scared, naive 17-year-old, and our group of friends took him into our group house, and gave him a place to live and a lot of comfort (this was a guy who, before he got kicked out of the house, had never so much as spent a night away from home before). That was a long time ago, and he’s happy, confident, and in a long-term relationship now.
Sure, as the slogan goes, “it gets better,” but holy fucking squid there’s a damn lot of bad it can be before it does…
cthulhu
One of my more memorable experiences was going over to my Mom’s at some point when I was in college. After a nice dinner, the conversation took a strange turn where she started talking about how she accepted me no matter what. I was quite confused until I realized what she was getting at. I told her, um no, you have the wrong idea, I’m pretty solidly heterosexual.
At the time, I found the whole situation mortifying even though I got why she went there based on the data she had. But though her gaydar was way off, her heart was totally in the right place and way ahead of the curve as this was the mid-80’s. It will always be something that I very much respect her for (and though my Dad didn’t go there, it never seemed likely to be a problem; he had already, mostly, reconciled his brother being gay).
Though it is more likely my kids will fall on the heterosexual side, my wife and I are straight advocates for gay rights for them, their friends, and everyone else. We have made it clear from the time they could start talking about such things, even in play, that they can love and marry whoever they want (except, er, each other). But I do feel this tolerance and acceptance started with my parents in many ways.
chuck butcher
This father still has the options of behaving like a human toward his son and telling him, “I love you.” I lost mine to suicide and I’ll never have that again. I can hope he’ll not find himself losing that entirely. Some people don’t seem to know what they’ve got to lose.
Brian R.
@Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):
More than that, he did it in a fucking letter, like he was cancelling a subscription to a magazine.
There is no context that makes “I disown my son” OK. Nothing.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@chuck butcher: My heart hurts for you, but I have no words that can help.
Brian R.
@W. Kiernan:
Someone on the Reddit thread said if it were him, he’d look his son in the eye and yell “GET OUT OF MY HOUSE … AND GO FIND A NICE YOUNG MAN!”
God
And, true to form, here’s someone who doesn’t speak for me, saying that children from same sex home should be kidnapped and carried through a new Underground Railorad.
Hypatia's Momma
@BGinCHI:
Do you… know any actual homosexual men or women? The scent of fetishizing in your non-snark comment is strong.
suzanne
Fuck that “dad”.
My own dad walked out when I was a year old in order to avoid paying child support. Never paid my mother a dime. No birthday cards or gifts. And now that I’m in my thirties and he’s probably about to kick it, he wants to reconcile. In short, he’s an epic FAIL as a person.
And yet I think he might be better than this waste case.
Congrats Mumphrey and Mrs. :)
Hypatia's Momma
@Brian R.:
I’d have been happy to hear it from the parents of Ted Bundy.
shortstop
@pluege:
This is the heart of the matter. In some ways, the religious fundamentalism is just the symptom. Massive ego, self-absorption and a need to control are the disease.
shortstop
@suzanne: My husband’s father pulled much the same shit. They have a relationship of sorts now, but my husband says he thinks of his dad as a vaguely pleasant uncle he sees now and then. He will never, ever view him as a parent and he holds him at arm’s length.
suzanne
@shortstop: Considering that my father is a multi-millionaire living in a country club in Florida while my mother is about to move in with me because she got laid off and is trying to avoid losing her house, I won’t really even think about listening to him blather on about his regrets and how he wants forgiveness until he makes some shit right. Seventeen years of child support is a good place to start.
Hypatia's Momma
@suzanne:
My mom had to give my dad money to buy us birthday presents, otherwise he wouldn’t have bothered. He died some years back and none of his children cared.
The prophet Nostradumbass
That “dad”s printing reminds me of the Zodiac Killer letters.
shortstop
@suzanne: Sounds reasonable to me.
Joel
@HEY YOU: Hi, you’re a prick.
[/judgement]
cthulhu
@The prophet Nostradumbass: That’s random and brilliant at the same time.
karen marie
@Soonergrunt:
As someone who has also been disowned by their parents, I have to say, Soonergrunt, you are so, so sadly wrong. Regardless of how much time goes by or how unrighteous the parent’s reasons for the disowning, and regardless of what a brave front this young man puts up, the pain and grief that the rejection causes is enormously deep and never ends.
I say “fuck you mom and fuck you dad” every day, and have done so for almost eight years, but what looks like anger is really tremendous sadness and hurt at being rejected by the people who above all others should have loved me no matter what.
Instead of wishing that they die alone and miserable, I hope that before it’s too late they recognize the tremendous wrong they have done and apologize. I hope the same for RegBarc and his father.
Donut
@HEY YOU:
So much failure in so few words.
The letter is clear – the man clearly says to his son that the son is shunned because God supposedly frowns upon gayness.
There is no excuse for this, no aspect of their relationship that could possibly make writing this letter acceptable.
As a parent, I tell you, there is no goddamned excuse for treating your child like this. None.
karen
It’s horrible that sexual preference is enough to make a father disown his son. I have no pity for the father at all, in fact, I hope all that hate and poison in his body gives him an early death. I am glad that the son has moved on and has not let his father’s hatred ruin his life.
karen
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Reading Queerty, those same Gay GOPpers are voting for Romney. Or are using Queerty to try to talk people out of voting for Obama by saying that both parties suck and the third party is the only option…probably paid for by the Romney people…
BGinCHI
@Hypatia’s Momma: Probably more than you and they are almost all fabulous. Why, are all the ones you know horrible?
What the fuck are you talking about?
I’m pre-accepting my child’s sexuality, and saying that young gay men are often more interesting than straight young men who don’t have to worry about choices they make.
Is that clear or do I need to explain it to you more?
Gemina13
One of my brother’s best friends was bisexual, and caught AIDS in the mid ’80s. His parents were conservative Irish Catholics, and only came to see him when it was clear he was dying. They spent the short time he had telling him he was going to hell, and it was all he deserved.
My mother was ready to buy a ticket from Phoenix to Chicago just to find that pair and beat them bloody. She loved that young man just as if he’d been her own son, and cried to find out how he’d died.
Reading this letter makes me wonder if Brian’s parents have ever regretted their cruelty, or if they went to their graves feeling secure in their own self-righteousness and hate. It depresses me to think that it could easily be the latter, and that the old bastard who wrote the above letter will die believing the same thing.
Mnemosyne
@beergoggles:
The real advance that we’ve had in society is that it’s no longer socially expected for you to disown your child because they’re [gay/in an interracial relationship/etc]. People are still assholes and do it, but generally speaking there is no longer that social pressure from the neighbors and the rest of the family. In fact, I think it’s turned around enough that in much of suburbia, kicking your kid out of the house for being gay makes you look bad to the neighbors.
So I guess what I’m saying is that this jerk doesn’t even have the fig leaf of “what will the neighbors think?” that your parents’ generation could try to pass off as an excuse. In today’s society, he’s just an asshole.
Evinfuilt
Lost my parents and sister by coming out, so I can’t even make it through that letter. I don’t know ht is better, knowing your parents have a make believe person to blame it on, or as in my case, they’re agnostics, so the hate is all them.
YellowJournalism
Fucking gut-wrenching is what this is. I don’t know how I could ever be without my children in my life. To quote Lily Tomlin in my fav Ben Stiller movie: “We love you very much. If you were Jeffrey Dahmer, we would still love you.”
Hypatia's Momma
@BGinCHI:
No, you’re saying that you hope your child is gay. One would hope that you would love and accept your child for being your child, instead of having some magical qualities that apparently are only obtained by being a homosexual male.
WaterGirl
@karen marie: @Evinfuilt: I am so sorry. I can only hope your families come to realize what they have done is a terrible mistake and try to reconnect with you guys.
In my one serious relationship with someone of the same gender, my sister told me I was ruining my life and that no men would ever want to be with me again, and then promptly proceeded to welcome my partner as if she was another sister.
Sometimes people are bigger/better people than they realize. May your parents grow up and realize their terrible mistake. BIg hugs to both of you.
greennotGreen
@BGinCHI: I don’t think that gay men as a whole are any more or less interesting than straight men, or that lesbians are more or less interesting than straight women. I know gay men who couldn’t decorate their way out of a paper bag and lesbians who are way less butch than me, and I’m straight. The point is that homosexual people are different from heterosexual people in exactly one way: their sexual preference. Any other differences are due to societal pressures associated with the current lack of equality.
There is way more to a person than their sexuality; to get hung up on that is like saying, “I really want my child to like impressionism,” or “I really want my child to be a gourmet cook.” Just hope for your child to be happy and healthy, and leave it at that.
WaterGirl
I have been sitting here listening to you guys lecture BGinCHI, trying not to jump in to defend a man who is perfectly capable of handling this himself, but I am apparently unable to restrain myself.
Not sure if you guys are new here, but I am fairly certain that if BGinCHI’s baby had come out green and speaking sanskrit that BGinCHI would have loved and accepted him immediately and completely.
From where I sit, any little one would be truly lucky to have BGinCHI as a parent. He’s one of the good guys.
Hypatia's Momma
@WaterGirl:
Except for the bit where he’s secretly regretting the child wasn’t a gay male so it would have all these traits that only gay males have (and those are the only ones they have because gay men are sparkly and special) and which he, as a parent, is apparently incapable of teaching.
WaterGirl
@Hypatia’s Momma: I think you’re taking BGinCHI’s comments far too literally.
Perhaps you are more sensitive to this than I am, and maybe you have reason to be, but if your description is actually an accurate reflection of how BGinCHI thinks and feels, I will eat my hat.
Just my two cents.
Mnemosyne
@Hypatia’s Momma:
BGinChi’s son Xavi is less than a year old, so it may be a bit early to decide that he definitely is or isn’t gay or that BGinChi has failed to raise him right.
Hypatia's Momma
@Mnemosyne:
I haven’t made that decision. He has.
Donut
@Hypatia’s Momma:
Gawd, You’re acting like an insufferable turd. Quit it.
Hypatia's Momma
@WaterGirl:
Ascribing to a group of people a set of characteristics that are not true for the entire group of people is demeaning. Maybe he didn’t intend to write his post as if gay men are actually people with all that implies (racist, bi-phobic, trans-phobic, misogynist) but it sure as fuck comes across that way.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Yea don’t think he needs the help but WTF.
Can I help with the hat thing?
Except for the bit where he’s secretly regretting
See that word in there… secretly? Talk about stuffing words and meaning into someone’s mouth.
Ruckus
@Donut:
Acting? History tells us this is no act.
Hypatia's Momma
@Ruckus:
When your hopes fail you, then you hit the regret phase. Hoping your son will be gay because all gays are [x] is setting yourself up for resentment and disappointment.
Mnemosyne
@Hypatia’s Momma:
Really? So you think that every morning he berates his nine-month-old son for not being gay enough?
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Mnems, give it up, a lost cause.
PanurgeATL
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I can see that. It’s kind of why I’m of two minds about the whole marriage/Army thing. It seems like a way for square, butch gays who can pass to acquire first-class citizenship while throwing all the femmes, freaks, and DFHs under the bus just like all the other square, butch guya. (Maybe it’s a kind of bonding gesture or token of good faith…) I keep hearing all this “I’m not one of THEM” talk from gay men when making their appeals, and all I can think is “Why does it have to come to that?” I guess being gay isn’t “the last barrier”, after all.
My parents still don’t know, though I suppose they suspect. My sister (once a church choir director) knows, and though she doesn’t like it, we had a Very Serious Talk about it–because she wanted to know. I’m sorry for anybody who ever got a letter like this; I guess I’m not big enough to be sad instead of angry about it, though.
Hypatia's Momma
@Mnemosyne:
No, I think he’s a judgmental idiot.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Ruckus: When people are looking for something to be offended by, they will usually find it.
Ruckus
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
True words.
Even if they have to make it up.
Hypatia's Momma
@PanurgeATL:
I’ve been following some of the posts from trans-men and women concerning the same issues.
Pen
@Hypatia’s Momma: Then you’re a fucking tool. I’d go more into depth on that point but having read your contribution to this particular thread it’s obvious that would be a waste of time. So just do what you do, tell me what my motive is and what I’ll say since you’re obviously a mind reader.
Joel
@Hypatia’s Momma: And you know, I thought “hunting the snark” was a Lewis Carroll story…
Pat
Dad needs to go back to school and take a biology class.
JR in WV
@Bailey:
You really think his Mom is allowed to have a choice?
A whole bunch of us should attend his funeral, and at the end, piss on the grave. Fuck that guy, he’s a monster wearing a human costume.
ETA: I had an uncle who was into Ni-CLANG jokes. We usually left when he started, if it seemed like there was gonna be a bunch of them. Then a niece of his, my beloved cousin, appeared with a partner who was a black lady, school teacher, sang in the choir, wonderful person.
Uncle, manfully, never told another Ni-Clang joke. A stand-up man who made me proud, finally.
JR in WV
@The prophet Nostradumbass:
I thought the same thing, disorganized, irregular letters, poorly organized sentences, obviously brain-damaged by evil thought.
JR in WV
@Hypatia’s Momma:
You are wilfully still misunderstanding his comments, and should be ashamed of yourself for not letting it go, since you obviously don’t understand what’s going on.
ETA: Now I see even more people trying to inform you, and you still are blissfully unaware that your are almost as F’ed up and the “Dad” this whole thread should be about.
Fuck You for talking about someone you don’t know like this. Bitch!
Sorry for your kids, their Mom is crazy… arg.
SLily
@BGinCHI: I know you mean well, but I would gently ask that you not stereotype gay men like this.
WereBear
@Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.): So congrats are in order!
Much love to everyone.
maurinsky
My Irish Catholic mother decided she was in favor of gay rights way back when Anita Bryant was agitating against them. We were watching the Tony awards, and my mother said “I think God must love the gays, otherwise he wouldn’t have made them so talented” and stopped buying Tropicana OJ until Anita Bryant was no longer their spokesperson.
I think people who will do this kind of stuff, disowning their own children – these are people with a very immature sense of what is truly moral.
Wally Ballou
I, too, hope my future son turns out to be gay so he will be liberal and interesting and not a fatty.
And, even though I’m a white dude, I also wish my future son could be black, so he’d be a great dancer and good at sports and very well hung!
ET
Obviously that father is going to miss out – but that fucker deserves it. Too bad he didn’t and likely never loved his son much less loved him unconditionally. This is a many whose “love” always comes with a list of things that the other person has to do to live to the “honor.” He is better off without this looser, that kind of destructive hate is better left to its own devices so it doesn’t spread.
What is galling beyond the letter itself of of course is the civility it is done with. Sort of chilling. End with the “have a good birthday” and “goodbye Dad” gives new meaning to the phrase “Banality of evil.”
graves007
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. – Steven Weinberg
AnnaN
Seems to me as if this was a man who never much cared for his son anyway and saw this as a great opportunity to divest himself of the burden of having a child.
What a fuck.
celticdragonchick
@BethanyAnne:
I can confirm that from personal experience. I have no contact with my sister at all, and relations with my parents are highly strained. They refused to attend my college graduation because I had legally changed my name. Their stance was: “We don’t know who Annemarie is.” I have no idea how long they will continue to have any relation with me and my family. If they choose to stop talking to me, then it will be on their conscience and not mine. I have done my family duty as eldest child to the best of my ability. (My brother and his sons talk to me all the time and have not tried to shut me out)
celticdragonchick
@Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):
Congrats!!! :D
Egilsson
Heck, I’m hoping my daughter is gay because high school boys are all hormonal pieces of crap. Some try to pretend they aren’t hormonal pieces of crap, but it’s a ruse.
In fact, I think men have to reach their 30s before they aren’t pieces of garbage any more.
D. Mason
This used to happen commonly to children who dated outside their race as well. Still does from time to time I suppose. Some parents would rather lose their children than accept their children being something less than ideal(ideal from the parents view). It’s a disgusting fact of life and I guess some things never change.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Brian R.: Hey Brian, Agreed. I’ll expand on my thoughts here a bit. Note: when I talk about relgious apologetics etc., I don’t mean you. Your response just reminded me of some other things I wanted to write down on the issue.
In most cases the homophobia that is practiced in the name of religions are based on poor or selective interpretation of the texts. But that doesn’t change the fact that religion/God/Jesus etc. are still the poisoned seed from which such horrible “morality” can be justified by the believers. It’s not the only thing that can drive this sort of thing: tribalism, racism and classism being other examples I can think of offhand, but religion is still the reason that I see most often nowadays. And unlike class or race (which generally are kept on the dl), discrimination based on sexual preference is still fairly out in the open and pushed by major organizations with big political $ and tremendous influence on the policies that effect us all. I would argue that the big reason that the reason that anti-gay sentiments don’t get the same kind of shaming that racism does in 2012 is because it’s supporters can hide behind their mighty Bibles to deflect criticism (even as we agree that they misrepresent/distort the views held within it.) Any conversation about intolerance towards LGBT minorities can’t ignore the elephant in the room that the main source for it both historically and currently, is the crazy urge to please an imaginary being in the sky. With all the endless thanks we give to God for touchdowns and strength and art and love and pretty much everything positive etc., I think it’s high time to lay some of the negative fruits he inspires (this, war on science education, gender-discrimination etc.) at his feet as well. I think it’s a crucial tactic for any possibility of accelerating the rate of progress on these issues. So long as the faithful get a pass from much of society because their bigotry is religiously-inspired, I favor the approach of attacking the root of the problem.
We have, as humans, deeply rooted senses of morality and familial loyalty. We are now starting to see the evidence for them in our closest relatives (apes) and other animals. See the writings of Frans De Waal on primate studies. Empathy, fairness, and loyalty to our family, come from our biology and these things are so powerful, that in higher animals only stray from them under the most severe threats of survival. To disown our own flesh and blood (especially once we have a relationship with them and have built a bond with them over years) actually takes quite a bit of effort to bypass our natural tendencies. One of the few forces that is strong enough to give human’s the ability to perform the mental-gymnastic-rationalization to disown their children (and to do it in such a heartlessly cruel way as in the above letter) is in the irrational desire to please God.
I’m not a parent by choice. But I could never imagine the type of cruelty needed to be able to treat someone the way this asshole treats his son. It would take something deep and strong playing on the worst elements of human nature. And whether intentional or not, religion seems to trigger those elements in humans pretty regularly. Which is why I include God and Jesus in the culpability for such sad displays of human cruelty as this asshole has displayed.
Of course, ironically we are still at a state where the people who point out the connection or demand that religion’s role in such affairs be acknowledged, are the one’s that society calls “millitant” and intolerant (Harris, Dawkins Myers et. al) Any attempt to shine a light on (and condemn) the relationship between God and intolerance is apparently the ultimate display of intolerance. Oh well, baby steps.
Ed Drone
My thoughts, in lyric form:
What Would Jesus Do?
Words written in red that our Savior said in the Bible,
The ones that I find, to change my poor mind, they’re not liable.
I couldn’t discover any words about lovers, it was all about the rich and the poor;
So your message of fear falls onto deaf ears – what is it that you’re fighting for?
Chorus
What would Jesus do if he met you?
Would he look at the hateful things you have said?
What would Jesus do? Again, I ask you.
It’s too late for “live and let live” when you’re dead.
The greatest command, as I understand, said Jesus,
Is to give God your love, no other above – it pleases.
And the next on the list that you seem to have missed: love your neighbor as much as yourself,
And there’s nothing in there about being unfair, so put that stuff back on the shelf.
Chorus
Now, I don’t mean to nag, but this stuff is a drag, and you know it.
And when we are called to account for it all, don’t blow it.
People are people, ‘neath minaret or steeple, who they love is between them and their God,
So put down that stone, leave your neighbor alone, and hope Jesus spares you the rod.
Chorus
(c) 2007 Bob Clayton & Ed Drone
The tune still needs work.
Ed
Darkrose
@celticdragonchick: That truly sucks, and is enraging. A good friend of mine is trans, and I have to suppress the constant urge to find his mother and smack her. He’s her only child, and she refuses to accept him as male because “it’s unnatural”. I will never understand how your child and suddenly not be your child–and I don’t have and never will have children.
BethanyAnne
@celticdragonchick: Yeah, one of the many ironies about my brother is that he split at “bisexual” and wasn’t around when “trans” got added a few years later. He’s fled to a Southern Baptist church, and I’m not the only family member he doesn’t speak to now. Anyone need a brother?
Joe B.
I can certainly relate, unfortunately. I am 42 years old and had come out to mom about 3 years a go, and things had been okay until May 27, 2012. She gave me an ultimatum, gave me the month of June to decide whether I wanted to continue living my “life style” or have them back “church”. Church is a powerful thing.
I have ten other siblings and only my youngest brother and two of my sisters speak to me. It has been extremely hard to say the least. I am still in shock of their actions towards me. We’ve always been very close and to go from having a great relationship with all of them to not having anything at all, is quite sad. I’m confused BUT am hopeful and hope that by keeping a positive mind and attitude, will some day win their love and respect again. I have to move forward with my life, although it feels a bit weird, I must stand for myself. Being gay isn’t a switch you can turn ON and OFF, we didn’t choose to be gay, just like you had no choice in being straight. Nothing is different about us AT ALL, if anything stronger and wiser for having the constant struggle of dealing with this issue since a young age. I’m gonna stop here, I can go on for days. God bless you all, hugs
jb