I thought this was probably the best celebrity endorsement I’ve seen in a hell of a long time, mainly because it’s related to a real personal experience and uses humor to get the point across. No surprise that it’s about Planned Parenthood. Here’s a policy issue where the Obama Administration hasn’t flinched, backtracked or sidestepped, no matter how much heat they’ve gotten.
In other Planned Parenthood news, there’s been a big shakeup at the Komen foundation (via). Nancy Brinker is still around but has a lesser role, and the president and two board members are out.
Punchy
I think the brand’s been tarnished irreparably. Bringing in three or four new sets of breasts wont fix the company cancer.
Steve
President Obama telling John Boehner “not a penny” on Planned Parenthood cuts was one of the finest moments of his presidency. Those are the times when we really see what priorities you value.
Nina
I hate to beg, but my work blocks this video. Who is the celebrity and what does she say?
Balconesfault
I’m betting that the Komen ladies were realizing that a series of “Races for the Cure” organized and run at the local level by churchladies (because every woman who wasn’t a fundamentalist suddenly found something else they could spend a few hundred volunteer hours on) … was not exactly going to be the revenue bonanza they’ve gotten used to.
Roger Moore
Sadly, she’s wrong when she says that 95% of what they do is non-controversial. Yes, less than 5% of what they do involves abortion, which is what she’s talking around. But there are enough assholes out there who hate contraception that it’s controversial, too. We all know that the crazies won’t stop with abortion if they manage to ban it; they’re going to go after the rest of Planned Parenthood’s services, even the cancer screenings.
Alexandra
@Nina:
Elizabeth Banks, close-up, straight to camera for the most part with some soft background music. Some excerpts:
“Yes I got birth control, but it was for my massive migraine headaches and my heavy flow,” Banks says.
“Yeah, I’m on record saying I had a heavy flow. And unfortunately these are the types of things that I don’t want to discuss with employers; I don’t want to talk about that with my employer. That’s between me and my doctor; and at the time my doctor happened to be with Planned Parenthood,” she said.
“The services that they provide — what is it, 95 percent of them don’t involve anything controversial. So, for that little 5 percent that Mitt Romney decides he doesn’t agree with, he’s going to take away cancer screenings? What is he doing? He’s going to take away people’s access to health care close by? We’re talking about working class ladies that need access to health care,” Banks says in the video.
Elizabelle
Dancing horses on MSNBC now.
Rafalca free.
But first a commercial break …
NancyDarling
@Nina: Elizabeth Banks saying Planned Parenthood was her source of health care after college. She needed BC for migraines and ‘heavy flow’ and doesn’t want to discuss those things with her boss. Talks about how many women they serve for non-controversial health needs—screenings, etc.
In other news, Rmoney has come out with a new ad saying Obama is attacking religion. He genuflects to a dead Pope. Trying to sew up the Catholic vote, I suppose. It will play well in places like MO where they just passed a bill which will shore up Missourians first amendment rights. They claim Christians are under siege in MO. Muslims in Joplin might have a better definition of ‘under siege’.
I am sick of everybody’s religion, including my own.
patrick II
@Nina:
The celebrity is Elizabeth Banks and she relates her own experience with and need for Planned Parenthood when she was just out of college.
bootsy
I wouldn’t trust that Komen shakeup to actually be real and meaningful (that news report, to its credit, disclosed that the station was a partner of Komen). You should see if Nancy’s son Eric is still involved. As far as I know, the Komen Foundation have been big right-wingers for years, and it’s easier for a right-winger to lie than change its stripes.
Onihanzo
“Yes I got birth control, but it was for my massive migraine headaches and my heavy flow,” Banks says.
Aaaaaand just like that, ground is completely given up to the Paleolithic, anti-contraception, pro-birth zealots.
This is nothing illegal or immoral about using birth control. Stop fucking apologizing for it.
gelfling545
The local paper highlights the newly appointed RC bishop as a “skilled manager and politician” – certainly desired traits in someone responsible for the spiritual welfare of a large-ish metropolitan area – who (I paraphrase here) fought off the gay menace in Maine. I’m sure all the RC faithful feel comforted.
NancyDarling
@Onihanzo: I heard it more like “It’s no one’s damn business what I use BC for—especially my boss.”
MikeJ
@Onihanzo: Oddly enough I was actually typing, “I’m just glad we haven’t had the purity brigades here yet to tell they don’t approve of Banks.”
Good thing I refreshed. Go fuck yourself. She’s telling her story. Who are you to tell her what her experiences are? Seriously, go fuck yourself.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@Onihanzo:
I was just going to say that.
For a spot that otherwise is dead-on, that framing is completely from the Anti-Sex League POV.
zombie rotten mcdonald
@NancyDarling:
Your point is valid, however the “yes, but” construction kind of implies that BC for other medical reasons has more justification than using it because someone wants to fuck without getting pregnant.
Might have been better to say “In my case, it was for …..”
MattF
From the WaPo: Apparently Brinker is moving to a more behind-the-scenes position, but will still have a major role. Thompson is leaving because Brinker is not leaving. I’m guessing that the board members are leaving with Thompson.
ExurbanMom
While I agree that no one should have to apologize for wanting to use birth control, I think it’s important that people realize how many other conditions are successfully treated with BC.
I have cystic ovaries, that would literally double me over in pain some times during the month. I couldn’t function at my job or in my life if I lost access to birth control pills.
There are thousands of women like me out there. The value of BC beyond contraception is a vital element to women’s health, and it shouldn’t be ignored.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore:
I’m afraid that’s true.
This has never really been about aborting babies.
It’s always been about unauthorized sexytime, and avoiding the natural consequences that were put there by asshole deity to deter unauthorized sexytime, therefore we’re telling the asshole deity that it’s an asshole and that hurts the feefees of the worshipers of the asshole deity who are themselves assholes.
Onihanzo
@MikeJ: MikeJ, it’s adorable you’re riding in on your white horse to save Elizabeth Banks, you condescending dick. But you’re missing the point entirely.
Yes, it’s an admirable thing that Elizabeth Banks has stood up and made this ad, telling her story with bravery and honesty. Yes, more celebrity women should be doing the same and making their voices heard about how important Planned Parenthood is at a national level.
But the ‘I’m only using birth control for my medical needs’ argument pushes the goalposts right where the pro-birthers want them to be. That birth control access should be monitored and restricted ONLY for those needs. Is that a tack you agree with?
Emma
@Onihanzo: She’s not apologizing you idiot, she’s speaking her truth. I also used birth control and so did my sister. We started way before we had sex — it was for exactly the same reason!
If you’re saying is that the only reason to speak for Planned Parenthood is because you think abortions should be freely available, you are closing the door to a lot of women who don’t agree but who understand the need for it as general healthcare and are willing to compromise.
Villago Delenda Est
@MikeJ:
Ohihanzo has a point, and it’s a valid one.
It’s no one else’s business if you’re using birth control of any kind, for any reason. It’s no one elses’ business if I’m using any drug at all with the consultation of my doctor.
The ultimate goal of the crazies is to ban contraception. They’ve more or less admitted that. We know it’s the goal of the vermin who wear red beanies. They do not care if it’s used for any other reason…the fact that it is contraception is enough for them, because frankly, these people are obsessed with everyone elses’ sex life.
Fuck them. It’s none of their fucking business if Elizabeth Banks uses those drugs to control her migraines or to pull a train with the Vienna Boy’s Choir. Absolutely none.
shortstop
Nothing wrong with Banks’ story. But we do need a lot more people standing up and saying, “You know what I use the pill for? Not getting pregnant.”
As for the changes at Komen, there must be some mistake in this reporting. When all this started going down, I was earnestly assured by popping-out-of-the-woodwork people (whose Facebook photos were all St. Philomena medals) that their supergigantico financial support would lead Komen to a new era of fundraising prowess. How can it be that this hasn’t happened?
mistermix
Have those of you who are picking on the messaging here stopped to think that perhaps you’re not the goddam audience for this piece? Perhaps she’s trying to reach the people who might be conditioned to think that PP is just for birth control, and who might have their eyes opened by her experience. Is it so fucking wrong to try to say, “hey, I get that you’re a bit uncomfortable with some of what goes on at PP but you need to understand those in context of all the things they do.”
At the end of the day, we’re all in the same place: supporting PP.
That’s why I thought it was a good celebrity endorsement. It’s not a bunch of preaching about what you proles ought to do, but it’s a likeable down-to-earth person talking about her real personal issues and how PP addressed them.
Mark S.
I didn’t know birth control helped with migraines. I guess it can help or make it worse.
shortstop
@Emma:
How could she be saying that? Has she even mentioned abortion?
Unless I missed something, she’s only said that we don’t have to apologize for using OCs to prevent pregnancy.
Onihanzo
Pretty much what Villago Delenda Est just said.
I’m not castigating Banks for being honest about her medical needs. I’m castigating the fact that the ground is being given in favor of THAT discussion over a larger discourse about why women should be denied birth control for ANY reason.
me
@Elizabelle: Rafalca is out.
TS
@Roger Moore:
Nothing was controversial about birth control until the ACA included it as part of women’s health care and the paragon of virtue Rush Limbaugh who has NO children – for reasons which may/may not include birth control – decided to call women sluts if they used birth control.
Women’s freedom took a giant step forward in the 1960s (a time I shall never forget) – that it suddenly becomes a negative in 2012 – is yet another result of a President who is “different”
ExurbanMom
@Mark S.: Exactly. There are dozens of conditions that can be alleviated or cured with birth control pills. People like Rush Limbaugh (who apparently thinks the pill works by gobbling them down each time you have sex) and his troglodite listeners would do well to learn just what they might be doing to women by restricting access to this vital element of our health care.
artem1s
@Onihanzo:
This is nothing illegal or immoral about using birth control. Stop fucking apologizing for it.
Yes! And we can’t do that until we also acknowledge there is nothing illegal or immoral about abortion. It’s just another form of birth control and a simple medical procedure that could be handled on an office visit basis if it hadn’t been so ridiculously corralled by legislation designed to define conception (or even the possibility of conception) as the beginning of personhood.
I’m tired of listening to apologies for being pro-choice as well.
Elizabelle
@me:
Oh yeah.
We have a horse dancing to “The Lion King” score at present. Hakuna metata.
Davis X. Machina
@gelfling545: Based on my conversations with them, the Sisters of Mercy here in Maine are happy to let you have him full-time, so’s they can get on with the business of feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, etc. etc.
Misterpuff
@NancyDarling: And the Mormons didn’t fair too well in Missouri, as I recall…
mistermix
@Onihanzo: The point of the piece is to garner support for Obama’s position on PP. When Obama is re-elected, PP will be in better shape than it would if Romney were elected.
So, ground is not being given if the piece is effective.
Ground is given if the piece is ineffective at its aim, which is to convince women who might otherwise vote for Romney to vote for Obama.
The reason the old saw “politics is the art of persuasion” is repeated so often, not “politics is about stating my case in uncompromising language that makes my base happy” is because the former is true and the latter is not.
Raven
@Davis X. Machina: Well, The Sisters of Mercy they are not departed or gone. . .
giltay
Banks was talking to the slut-shamers, there. Her message was that if you ban contraceptives (or make them hard to get), then you hurt even women you consider virtuous. And that shutting down Planned Parenthood is harmful regardless of what you think of abortion or birth control.
Davis X. Machina
@NancyDarling:
There is no ‘Catholic vote’. There are Catholics, and there’s a conservative vote.
Villago Delenda Est
@TS:
No, the ACA just brought it to the forefront. The crazies have been gunning for contraception of all types for years. They object to handing out free condoms. They object to putting women on the pill for any reason at all, and call them sluts if they do, whether they have sex or not. Hell, they call them sluts (see the case of Sandra Fluke) if they talk about others using contraception for reasons other than specifically to avoid getting pregnant.
It’s all about the sex with them. They’re obsessed with it.
Fuck them.
Hypatia's Momma
@mistermix:
Yes, and it works.
A couple of days ago, #2 Brother ‘liked’ some malicious lie from the Catholic Association that was all about shutting down ObamaCare because: ABORTION! GIRLS HAVING SEX!
We Had Words. Some of those words involved me explaining how hormonal birth control can help women at all stages of adulthood, from menhorragia through post-menopause, without having anything to do with the woman in question having sex.
On the other hand, #2 Brother is someone with whom one can reason.
Villago Delenda Est
@Hypatia’s Momma:
Aye, there’s the rub.
Onihanzo
@mistermix: The point of the piece is to garner support for Obama’s position on PP. When Obama is re-elected, PP is in better shape than it was if Romney was elected.
In no way is that a guarantee. Yes, Obama has certain influence and power to see stronger legislation passed in PP’s favor. But it is limited influence. Just because Obama secures a second term does NOT mean Congress will roll over like an army of Basset Hounds and accede to policies they have spent the past five decades undermining.
Ultimately I get what you’re saying… that it’s a temporary apologism and a softening of the message ‘to get votes’. But these sorts of concessions in the public forums are what allows Texas, AZ and other states to pass some of the most virulently anti women’s health bills and anti-PP legislation… with little to no countervailing measures.
No one ever hears the saner argument at a national level anymore.
shortstop
@mistermix: All of that is true. I think this piece is pretty effective. But consider how much of the discussion over the past year has centered on all the non-pregnancy prevention uses for oral contraceptives. (Maybe you didn’t notice it; I assure you most women watching did.) When the goal of a certain segment of the right is to eliminate access to contraceptives–and it is–then any “But I’m not using it for that! I’m using it for this!” arguments take on an aspect of personal dissociation from the original and far most frequent reason for using the pill. If you doubt that this moral-vs.-immoral-pill-use thinking is going on, consider the Arizona legislation that seeks to allow employers to decide whether or not to cover OCs for their employees based on whether employees present them with the “right” medical evidence.
I think there’s a lot of value in stories like Banks’ — but only if there’s even more public discussion and personal stories about how using OCs prevented pregnancies, and what that meant to people’s lives and happiness.
NancyDarling
@Misterpuff: Neither did the Fancher wagon train from here in Carroll County, Arkansas, when they got to Mountain Meadows in Utah. People here still remember.
NancyDarling
@Davis X. Machina:
In Rmoney’s mind there is. He is that clueless.
Hypatia's Momma
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yeah, I know. He can be an ass but he is an intelligent ass.
Davis X. Machina
@NancyDarling: Generals — and captains of ‘industry’ — always fighting the last war….
shortstop
@Davis X. Machina: Do you think we’ll ever get over the ’60s? How many elderly wingers must pass from this earth for that to happen?
NancyDarling
@shortstop: It’s going to be a long slog here in Arkansas. We are bedeviled with more than a few young ones.
Roger Moore
@TS:
No. Contraceptives have been controversial for a long time. They became legal with Griswold, but there has been a segment of the population that’s wanted to reverse that decision ever since. The Catholic Church has been fighting condom distribution wherever it happens. ACA gave the religious assholes an excuse to bitch about contraception, but it didn’t create their hatred for it.
FlipYrWhig
Is it also a terrible yielding of ground when a Democratic ad says that the Republican opposes abortion even in cases of rape and inçest? Because that’s also differentiating between more and less legitimate uses of a medical treatment.
Steve
Sheesh people. If you think you could give more effective testimony, then go fucking testify already.
feebog
Is it just me, or are their others around who think Banks’ reason for obtaining birth control is not all that important? Yeah, yeah, I know, framing, misplaced argument, whatever. Look, this is a powerful, well made ad that will touch a lot of voters, but particulary young single women. That’s the target audience, and it is speaking to them in language they understand. There is no such thing as a perfect ad, but this is damn good, and I for one think the argument about framing completly misses the mark.
Culture of Truth
I know a lot of political catholics, and while not all are liberal, none of them think the way pundits and the GOP seem to think they do (ZOMG teh pill!1 aborsuns!1! popey!!)
Punchy
OT: Didn’t this guy just get narc’d on, SWAT’d, and ultimately arrested for doing exactly what the wingtards and NRA just told us we must start doing?
Cassidy
I don’t know what they’re bitching about. Women and BC is the best things to happen to single guys since tequila.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NancyDarling: I am not yet solidly optimistic, much less cocky, about November, but I am fascinated by the way Romney keeps appealing to the base of the base. The people Romney is trying to appeal to with this “war on religion” crap probably thought JP-2 was the Romish Whore of Babylon twenty years ago, now the Scary Black Man has them eating pancakes in the basement of Our Lady Of Perpetual Guilt. I’m no Eric Ferhnstrom, but shouldn’t these votes be locked up by now? Aren’t they? I think the smuggest of upper crust totebaggers will still tell themselves Our Willard isn’t really one of those, but some of them must be getting shaky.
On a more serious note, I wish the EJ Dionnes of this country would get it through their puerile heads that while they prattle about how Fat Timmy Dolan doesn’t really represent “the Church”, Fat Timmy’s analogs in places like Manilla are causing death and starvation through their obsession with other people’s sex lives.
Bulworth
I sure do loves me some Elizabeth Banks.
Dennis SGMM
We know that BC is sometimes used for medical reasons. I’d be willing to bet that there are plenty of people in the ad’s target audience to whom that thought never occurred. We are not going to move those people to our POV with high-minded arguments about women’s rights because many of them don’t believe in women’s rights to fucking begin with. If we can open their eyes a bit about the other purposes for contraception then that’s as good as it gets.
Davis X. Machina
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Whatever the hierarchy’s doing in the Phillipines, it’s not working.
Mnemosyne
@shortstop:
But isn’t that exactly what Banks is addressing? She’s saying, yeah, I was using the Pill to treat some other medical issues, but I don’t want to have to discuss my medical history with my employer just so I can be allowed to get the right treatment.
I think people are really confused about the point of this ad — it’s specifically meant to counter the people who say that employers should be allowed to decide what medical treatment their employees are permitted to receive. She’s saying that even though she was taking the Pill for her heavy flow and migraines and not for dirty dirty sex, her employer still shouldn’t be allowed to decide that for her because it’s not their goddamned business.
FlipYrWhig
@feebog: People in the blogosphere LOVE to talk about “framing.”. The carping about this piece and the carping about taxes on Olympic prizes are identical: we’re rhetorically giving away too much, it seems. But I’m not sure the countervailing vision of political rhetoric, where you never concede anything and yet are always persuasive at the same time, comports with reality.
the Conster
@mistermix:
Yes. When the purity police’s pet candidates (which are whom, by the way?) are as successful politically as Obama, I’ll start caring about what the purity police say about anything. Right now, it’s just about winning. Just win, baby. When we get more and better Democrats elected to Congress to hold accountable, then we can start talking about teh DRONES! Until that day comes, it’s politics over policy every day all day, and I’ll support whatever that funny named half black guy who is better at politics than anybody, because I want him to win again, and win big. This ad is exactly how to appeal to women who have probably in their life heard a lot of the shaming attitudes expressed so eloquently by Rush, and those women don’t hang out at FDL.
Xantar
@shortstop:
I think what you say is all true, but I don’t know if a TV commercial is the place to make the argument you want. That’s inherently a top-down, didactic form of messaging. It doesn’t work when you’re trying to change societal attitudes (and sadly, that’s what we’re dealing with here).
I think a pretty good model is the LGBT movement. Ten years ago it was a fringe movement, and now it’s basically mainstream among younger generations. I don’t know exactly how they did it, but it wasn’t through lots of commercials featuring gay people arguing that they should be allowed to marry (as righteous as that message would have been).
Villago Delenda Est
@feebog:
Exactly. It’s none of my business if Elizabeth Banks uses the pill for any reason at all. It only becomes my business if I’m having sex with Elizabeth Banks, and then only if it’s for birth control and the two of us are not doing it to make a Villgo-Banks bundle of joy. Her migraines and her heavy flow are not my business, period, and she need not apologize or explain to me anything to me about it that she feels in the slightest way uncomfortable in doing so. It’s her body, not mine. If she wants to share, I will listen eagerly. But I will not press her to explain herself. I respect her too much to do that.
Unlike the damn bluenosed god-bothered busybodies out there who should SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Cassidy
@Bulworth: Slither, with Nathan Fillion. Amazing.
shortstop
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Chapter 2163 in why I love to read J, FL’s comments.
@Dennis SGMM:
And not one of them is a woman under 75. Really, Dennis, people, at least female people, know this. I have no objection at all to reminding them, however, especially as so many of them seem willing and eager to deny it.
bemused
This is a very good ad. No one wants to be forced to talk to their employer about health issues. It really resonates how intrusive ultra rightwingers want to be in American’s lives.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: And, on top of that, it capitalizes on the idea that talking about gynecology–with your boss!–is an embarrassing prospect, especially by using Elizabeth Banks, an icon of raunchy womanhood, and having her express that concern, for a laugh.
NancyDarling
@FlipYrWhig: I use the reverse of that argument when talking to xtianists around here who support exceptions. Most often, the response has been to throw up their hands and walk away. They don’t want to deal with the dichotomy in their reasoning.
shortstop
@Xantar: Yeah, I don’t disagree; I wasn’t arguing for only using commercials. The message(s) bear repeating in a variety of formats and venues.
Mnemosyne
@Villago Delenda Est:
Here’s the point of the ad, though: Republicans want to make it her employer’s business. They want women to have to go to their bosses and lay out their whole medical history just so they can get their boss to sign off on the treatment that the woman and her doctor agree is the best one.
This ad is not about abortion or even contraception. It’s about medical privacy. It’s asking women to think about their worst boss and ask themselves if they really wanted to have to go to that asshole and describe how many tampons they were using each month to control their heavy flow in the hope that he’ll permit them to get a prescription for birth control.
yopd1
Considering the multiple number of friends that we had that walked the three day or ran the 5K here in San Diego, who are not participating anymore, the Komen news is far from surprising. My only question is when they’ll have to fold, because they cannot maintain the exorbitant salaries of their officers.
Mark S.
I think another really important point in the ad is that, for a lot of young and poorer women, PP is their medical provider. Defunding PP would really fuck over a lot of people.
shortstop
@NancyDarling: Because life always, always begins at conception, except when it doesn’t.
Cassidy
You know, if every woman in the workplace did that very graphically, every single day, bring every one to him after you replaced it, I’m willing to bet that would be stopped real quick.
jrg
@Onihanzo: I don’t think there’s going to be a large movement against BC as contraception anytime soon. A few Catholic whackos, yes, but not a large movement.
By citing medical reasons, she’s essentially saying that those reasons exist, and in order for your employer to distinguish between holy, pope-approved BC usage and “bad” usage, your employer would have to get deep into your medical business.
Assuming, of course, that pope-approved BC usage exists for any reason. Considering the RCC’s stance that women (even mothers of young kids) should die instead of having procedures to end an ectopic pregnancy, I’m not so sure… Sick, sick people.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Davis X. Machina: That article does my heart good.
Good on Aquino. NPR did a story comparing poverty rates and hunger statistics in the Phillipines and Thailand, and the difference was pretty much birth control. It was at the height of the BC nonsense here, and you could pretty much feel the reporter wanting to reach through the airwaves and shake this country by the lapels, ‘do you fucking get it now? !” and on my TeeVee, liberal MSNBC featured Tweety, EJ and Melinda Hennenberger, with the biggest, blackest Ash Wednesday smear I’ve ever seen, telling me I must respect the teaching and moral authority of the Church, while they (at least the first two) smirkingly told us that they rejected those teachings and denied that moral authority. Hennenberger comes off like Rick Santorum in a blonde wig.
Culture of Truth
Mitt still hasn’t got the base. Looser.
Dennis SGMM
@shortstop:
Of course women know this. It’s the menfolk who don’t want to hear about “female troubles” that this ad might reach.
patrick II
@shortstop:
I agree, but I am going to hedge a bit too. I would like to see a married woman say she is using the pills to prevent pregnancy. Conservatives get to pretend that all of those young birth control users are singles having illicit sex. I don’t know what the breakout is of married to single women at planned parenthood, but I would guess many married women seek help there too.
And yeah, I know this dances around the legitimacy of adults having sex outside of marriage, but I think it should be pointed out that working class married women want control of their own bodies too.
Mnemosyne
@Cassidy:
Sure, that specific employer might stop the policy, but the law would still be on the books, and women who might be a little more reticent about doing that would end up getting screwed because the law would still allow their boss to refuse to cover the Pill.
As flipyrwhig said, that’s what’s so brilliant about having Elizabeth Banks, star of Zack and Miri Make A Porno, talk about how she didn’t want to have to discuss her heavy flow with her employer. Even someone who makes raunchy comedies for a living doesn’t want to have that conversation with her boss.
Felanius Kootea
@Cassidy: Ewwww!!! (But probably true – I bet the boss would sue the employee for trauma or something though).
Villago Delenda Est
@jrg:
There is one now, jrg. It’s the so-called “pro life” movement.
Abortion is a cover for their true goal, reversal of Griswold v. Connecticut.
These people want to monitor your sex life.
Cassidy
@Mnemosyne: Sure. I think the commercial is great. My point is give these fuckers what they think they want. And guys should get into it to; walk into the boss’s office, whip it out and ask him if he thinks you should see a doctor.
jrg
@Villago Delenda Est: No, I don’t think that’s true. About 50% of people are “pro life”. If their stated goal was to eliminate contraception, that number would be nowhere near 50%.
…and frankly, if they ever achieved their stated goal of outlawing abortion, and women dying in back alleys actually became a widespread reality, that number would be nowhere near 50%, either.
feebog
@ Villago Delenda Est
Thanks for making that point. And yes, she is smoking hot. I doubt very much if she was a virgin after graduating from college. But it’s nobodys business but hers.
Culture of Truth
@Cassidy:
Has it been more than four hours?
SatanicPanic
Damn it, everyone covered everything I wanted to say- it’s a good ad, let it go.
TS
@Villago Delenda Est:
@Roger Moore:
I guess I just took the pill and ignored the crazies – they sure seem more to the forefront now than ever before. When I see the horific way some people treat their babes I can’t decide between compulsory birth control or forced sterilization.
Mark S.
Some Hillsdale professor predicts LANDSLIDE VICTORY FOR ROMNEY! It’s pretty stupid, but DougJ might appreciate some of the faffing about:
I guess Mitt’s been hiding all this charisma for the last eight years and will spring it in the debates.
ericblair
@Dennis SGMM:
No, I think it’s also reminding the women that just use BC for heavy flow and the like, and not family planning, that This Means You Too. YOU’re going to have problems getting the medication you need, YOU’re going to have to have embarassing and personal begging sessions with some knob in Benefits. You. It’s amazing how many right-wingers and fence-sitters can turn on a dime once they realize (usually quite belatedly) that they’re on the chopping block too, not only Those People.
And yes, it’s possible to have more than one argument in your quiver, so I don’t think this is giving up the bigger argument. You can lead people along one step at a time.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@mistermix: I thought the line “That’s between me and my doctor; and at the time my doctor happened to be with Planned Parenthood” was the most important line in the whole thing.
Marc
@Onihanzo: “MikeJ, it’s adorable you’re riding in on your white horse to save Elizabeth Banks, you condescending dick.”
Yeah, he should totally wait for Banks to comment here and defend herself. I understand she posts under the name “myiq2xu.”
FlipYrWhig
@feebog: OK, but I doubt very much that we’re ever going to see a sex-positive political advertisement.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Culture of Truth: LOL
shortstop
@ericblair:
This, absolutely. And it’s especially effective in that regard.
Culture of Truth
So was Mr. Ed.
gwangung
A lot of people want a head-on attack on the anti-sex sentiment behind Planned Parenthood attack.
This ad is a sideways, indirect attack. I happen to think that you need both. Attacking on multiple fronts is a winning strategy in my view. I mean, you have multiple winning arguments–why not use them all?
FlipYrWhig
@Mark S.: Even apart from any of the other many problematic statements there… “a man of vigor”? Have you ever seen Mitt Romney seem pleased to be anywhere, doing anything? Can a person be bland, monotonous, and vigorous all at the same time?
Culture of Truth
I haven’t played the ad, but it sounds like at a fundamental level it puts a real, likeable, human face on a quasi-political issue. And that sounds pretty effective.
Villago Delenda Est
@FlipYrWhig:
He’s vigorous at making money, by whatever means he has at his disposal. If it involves plunder, so much the better.
For schools of Mammon-worship like Hillsdale, this is pure win.
Villago Delenda Est
@Culture of Truth:
This.
The crew will rise in mutiny if Rmoney dares to steer to the center. He must keep them placated, or they’ll make trouble in Tampa.
Even AFTER Tampa, he’ll have to keep pandering to them, which means the etch-a-sketch remains in its original shipping container.
He can’t tack center. The base will revolt. We saw that yesterday when that spokeswoman dared to mention Romneycare, which is utterly fucking evil as far as the wingtards are concerned.
Culture of Truth
The world don’t move to the beat of just one drum!
What might be right for you may not be right for some!
A man is born! He’s a man of means!
Then along come two — they got nothing but their jeans!!
But they got diff’rent strokes!
It takes diff’rent strokes!
It takes diff’rent strokes to move the world!!
Carolinus
Romney pledges to shrink the federal workforce by (at least) another 10% (~450K jobs):
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-09/exclusive-romney-interview-on-humility-and-tax-returns#p2
Mark S.
@FlipYrWhig:
Well, he did trip his daughter-in-law to win a race. That sounds like something Teddy Roosevelt might have done.
(Just kidding, Teddy)
Cassidy
@Mark S.: But no starbursts? Weak sauce.
@Culture of Truth: And Ted Bundy.
weaselone
I must have missed the part where Banks indicated that birth control was only acceptable to use for purposes other than birth control. Oh wait, she didn’t. Of course, unless she was willing to reveal an addiction to having sex with men who live in their mothers’ basements and praise Planned Parenthood for providing the birth control and abortions necessary to preserve her body and movie career from the ravages of an unplanned pregnancy, she should have kept her mouth shut.
This is reason number 2 for why we can’t have nice things. Even when we get support, we have to criticize it because it lacks the proper idealogical purity and do our best to make enemies out of allies.
Culture of Truth
It’s funny how Romney can be so ruthless in business and so fucking whiny campaigning. It undercuts his whole no apology in-over-his-head argument.
var
Sorry I’m a bit late here, but has Rush called her a Hollywood whore yet? Has he asked why real murkins have to pay because she doesn’t want to use heavy duty pads for her flow?
Planned parenthood needs to change its name to Americans United and incorporate in the caymans and it’s all good.
Villago Delenda Est
@Culture of Truth:
Why Rmoney doesn’t say to the wingtards, “I’m all you’ve got now, bitches!” indicates that his image of being a ruthless businessman is nothing but image. His career at Bain is one of using tricks and subterfuge to steal millions. Oh, you gloat about it afterwards, but while you’re working the mark, you keep things cool.
brent
Every now and then I actually have to stop and marvel at the fact that we are actually having a national political debate about FUCKING BIRTH CONTROL! How the hell is it even possible in the 21st Century that a women controlling her reproductive cycle, for any reason at all, is even minimally controversial? I mean, I am used to seeing some pretty reactionary shit. I know plenty of people who say, don’t believe in Evolution. But not one of them would even consider telling a woman how to handle her business. Its mind blowing really.
More than that, this idea that employers should have some sort of veto power with respect to how my healthcare funds, part of MY compensation – for labor that I am providing to them for less than its value – gets spent, is seriously beyond creepy. What the hell is wrong with these people that they find such a notion even minimally acceptable?
ruemara
@feebog: Not that important. When you literally have to stay home for up to a week because you bleed out super size pads, your health is compromised because you lose way too much blood, then this shit becomes important. When you cannot see or function due to migraine pains, this shit becomes important. Does your job allow you to be off 12 weeks of every year?
Villago Delenda Est
@ruemara:
The important thing is if you have sex, you might get pregenant, and then you’ll be punished with childbirth and raising a kid because you had sex.
That’s what is truly important here. Everything else is trivial.
Dennis SGMM
@brent:
Speaking from the POV of my sixty four years, I’m completely fucking gobsmacked by the number of things that have again become the subject of national political debate. I’m wondering just what kind of nation we’ve become to enable this to happen.
Emma
@ericblair: This is what I was trying to say. You did it so much better.
Emma
@Villago Delenda Est: AAAARGH. No. It.. ISN’T.
What is important here, and what this ad does, is remind a lot of women who are not comfortable with the idea of abortion that PP is important for a whole number of other reasons. I have a dear friend, a whole-cloth Catholic, who still contributes to PP because she feels getting birth control to working class women works towards diminishing the number of abortions. Those are the people we need to get an unstoppable movement going.
Martin
@feebog:
I agree completely. As a mid-40s male, I’ve never once had to resort to birth control to mitigate a migraine – and neither has any of my male friends.
Bullshit is what I call it.
chopper
@ruemara:
apparently anemia from blood loss is no big deal.
ruemara
@Emma: He’s snarking. Feebog said that the reasons for getting BC by E. Banks was trivial. Which made me furious. VDE was enjoining in the reaction via snark.
@chopper: Yep, when I was down to an 8 in my hemoglobin count, those freaked out doctor faces were due to my lack of good hair care.
chopper
@Culture of Truth:
yes, but it doesn’t say what someone on the internet thinks it should, therefore it’s a complete failure.
Raven
@Dennis SGMM: The same kind of nation it was when you and I were on the Bassac.
Cassidy
Think you guys are getting ahead of yourself. Banks, or any women’s, reason for getting BC isn’t that important. If you and your doctor decide that’s what’s best, that’s it. The reaosning is not that important. It doesn’t have to be explained.
That’s how I read it anyway.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@chopper: “apparently anemia from blood loss is no big deal.”,
until a wealthy white guy suffers from it.
Rob in CT
Yep, while it would be nice to have a full-throated defense of birth control useage for… well… birth control, this strikes me as helpful.
I agree that it would be nice to see ads in which married women point out that BC coverage helps them avoid having more kids than they want (subtext for the indy/somewhat conservatives: hey, I’m trying to be responsible here and not have kids I can’t support. What the eff are you doing supporting proposals that will make it harder for me to do that?!). Again, it’s not that it’s wrong to have sex if you’re unmarried. It’s that the Right cannot effectively attack a family with, say, 2 kids already for using BC to avoid a 3rd. And if they decide to try, so much the better. Bring that on.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Dennis SGMM: This goes to the heart of the overton window concept that the cool kids around here love to mock.
In 20 years, today’s crazy rightwing motherfuckers are going to look reasonable in hindsight.
Emma
@ruemara: You know, I am losing my ability to tell!Current events have destroyed my snarkmeter. Apologies all around.
Martin
@Cassidy:
No. See, Democrats dared to do something that didn’t consult the BJ commentariat. Why didn’t they consult us first!?
Dennis SGMM
@Raven:
Aw, shit. My aspirations for this country seem to have passed their expiration date and now they’re just laying there oozing hope and lies.
OTOH, I’ve nearly completed renewing my camping gear so I’ll be back out in the desert within a matter of days. This year I added a Kindle Touch loaded with good books. Woo-hoo!
Cassidy
@Martin: I was only referring to Feebog’s cooment and responses. You’re damn straight I expect to be consulted!
gex
I love Elizabeth Banks. You should check out her Twitter feed. She’s pretty funny.
gex
The point, dear trolls, of making clear that BC covers non-sex related conditions is because many uninformed Americans DON’T know that.
Now if you think we are going to just easily change their positions on sexual mores, you should ask the gays how that goes. Meanwhile, please make sure that your purity tactics deny poor women of services they need, because that is obviously the best tactic.
Onihanzo
@Villago Delenda Est:
The important thing is if you have sex, you might get pregenant, and then you’ll be punished with childbirth and raising a kid because you had sex. That’s what is truly important here. Everything else is trivial.
So, having read the comments and talked it over with a friend, I think this might be a misstep on my part (and possibly yours).
As my friend commented: “The thing is, we all already know what Planned Parenthood is best known for. Contraception, family planning services, abortion services. It’s far and away less known for all the other things it does. It’s about explaining what else Planned Parenthood is good for and how else it can help women.”
I agree with you. The American Taliban still needs to be confronted. Here is to hoping more ads like the one linked in this post are forthcoming.
bemused
@Just Some Fuckhead:
That sounds like the nightmare from hell.
The rightwingers are so out of control now that I can’t help believing that as they continue to push their insane agendas hard, it is going to seriously backfire on them.
asiangrrlMN
I don’t think this video is that great, but if reaches mainstream people, then fine. It’s done what it’s supposed to do. I just wish we could *also* have ads saying that there is nothing wrong with taking BC for the intended purpose of deciding when or if to have babies.
To me, the fact that we can’t have those ads is one reason I’m not enthused about this one. I feel we have done too much apologizing on the issue,which has allowed for the other side to shape and frame the issue.
Again, I’m not saying let’s not have ads like the one featured here – just, in my utopian word, we would also be allowed to say, “I use birth control because I love to fuck and don’t want to have children.” Or even, “I use birth control because it’s a better life for me and my family when I get to plan when I have children.”
I do, understand, however, that this is not possible in our puritanical society, so I accept that I am a purity troll on this issue.
ETA: In reading some of the comments, I understand more that this video is not meant for me, but for women who think PP is all about abortions all the time and who need to know it’s not true. In that case, it’s a success.
Onihanzo
@gex:
Meanwhile, please make sure that your purity tactics deny poor women of services they need, because that is obviously the best tactic.
Oh put away the fucking hyperbolic straw already, would ya? Christ.
Mnemosyne
@asiangrrlMN:
It’s not just straddling-the-fence women. It’s women who don’t realize that Republicans are trying to pass laws that would require them to discuss their heavy periods with their boss before they can be treated for them.
Like I said, it’s a medical privacy ad that also supports Planned Parenthood. Win-win!
Hypatia's Momma
@asiangrrlMN:
It’s also good for men who are clueless but teachable.
Which reminds me that a friend who did medical work in India managed to help get married women birth control by telling their husbands it would “help regulate their cycles”.
Catsy
I think the point of the messaging argument is not that this is a bad ad, or that we shouldn’t be trying to enlighten people who are unfamiliar with how common the non-contraceptive uses of birth control are.
The point is that an otherwise excellent ad was slightly tarnished by an unforced messaging error that didn’t accomplish any useful purpose. With only slightly different phrasing the ad would’ve had every bit as much impact in all the intended ways, and would’ve avoided indirectly validating the notion that women have to justify using BC by protesting that it’s for non-contraceptive medical purposes. Consider the phrase in question:
This is a very defensive statement. Yeah I did that, BUT it was for THIS reason, not the reason you’re thinking. The message this delivers is that she’s fending off the impression that she was just getting BC in order to have sex–it’s okay, it was for a legitimate medical reason! See, not a dirty slut.
Now consider the following alternative phrasing, or something like it:
It communicates the same things in much the same way–but instead of being needlessly defensive about her reasons for getting BC, simply lays out those reasons in a matter-of-fact way and makes the case that these are subjects she shouldn’t have to talk about with her boss. I think most women can relate to not wanting to have a conversation like that, and that’s really the core message of this part of the ad.
Cassidy
I don’t buy the thing about people not knowing what BC is for and can be used for. This isn’t the Dark Ages, despite the Republican’s best attempt. If someone doesn’t know they’re lying or willfully stupid.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Cassidy: ” This isn’t the Dark Ages,”
When I consider how many people have trouble locating Canada on a map, I’m inclined to wonder about that.
gwangung
@Cassidy: Um, remember the number of people who still believe in creationism. LOTS of willfully stupid people out there.
Cassidy
@danah gaz (fka gaz): Well hell. You’re saying it wrong. If you were to say *Canad-Ia, I guarantee they know what you mean.
*True story
Garbo
@gwangung: I agree, and would like to see that direct ad as well. Perhaps a woman sitting across a desk from her male employer, explaining how she and her husband can’t afford any more kids, and how difficult her last pregnancy was, and her employer just saying, no, no, no…I get to decide and I say no.
Cassidy
@Garbo: The Jeebus freaks would completely lose their shit.
Hypatia's Momma
@Cassidy:
How many of the Dugger girls know? Are they lying or willfully stupid? And they were raised in the U.S., not Erytria or Peru or Slovakia.
A lot of people, men and women, are abysmally ignorant of the basics of how the respective reproductive systems work and, when it comes to anything to do with bleeding, that ignorance is magnified by “ew! gross!”. It’s not like this is taught in schools, after all. I’ve encountered grown women who didn’t know that that the vagina and the urethra are separate openings. So saying that they must be either lying or stupid because they never learned any thing beyond woman+sex=babies when it comes to the uterus is grossly unfair.
#2 Brother didn’t really take on board the other beneficial aspects of hormonal pills until he received A Stern Talking-To from both his sisters; he’s not stupid, he just didn’t know. (Of course, he has Asperberger’s Syndrome and so is capable of “learning against his will” once you managed to turn the information in such that he can fit it into his mental array.)
Catsy
@Cassidy: Feature, not bug.
The more they lose their shit about something that the overwhelming majority of Americans think is completely normal, the less credibility and influence they have.
Joel
@Punchy: He forgot the read the dogwhistles. The wingnuts were specifically calling for white people to carry.
Mnemosyne
@Catsy:
I’m pretty sure that two words in a single sentence of a 90-second commercial is not going to turn the tide.
Which is kinda exactly what mistermix is saying here — people are getting so obsessed with saying things exactly right that they miss the entire point of the spot, which is to make people aware that their employers are going to have veto power over their medical care, especially icky medical care for their ladyparts.
Cassidy
@Hypatia’s Momma: Picking out a backwards clan of jeebus freaks doesn’t exactly provide a counterpoint. Sure, they probably don’t know, but they’re kept in a world of isolation by people who do know. So while they are the exception, they are surrounded by those who are not.
The internet exists. We’re using it right now! Most people have access to some way to get the knowledge and choose not to use it.
Brachiator
Some Planned Parenthood people were handing out material recently at one of the popular malls recently. I was glad to see that people treated them with respect, and did not indulge any stupid wingnut outrage.
@Cassidy:
This is the United States of America, where people believe that you have a constitutional right to be stupid.
And the rest of the world often does its best to live up to this standard.
ETA: Always liked Elizabeth Banks.
asiangrrlMN
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, I changed that bit because it’s more about getting out the info. That said, I agree with @Catsy:’s comment. It’s changing the ad from defensive – which is how I saw it to neutral. It gets the same message across without making it sound like an apology – which is what many on this thread are commenting on. It’s reframing the message from a reactive one to one that stands on its own.
@gwangung: And also, THIS!
trollhattan
@gex:
Precisely. And the vid is aimed at Rush square between the squinty eyes and those who whould take his Sandra Fluke attacks as factually accurate. Let’s roll the tape:
This is the leader of the Republican Party speaking.
Hypatia's Momma
@Cassidy:
No, they don’t know and they aren’t living in isolation. You can tell “backwards jeebus freaks” that hormonal birth control is often used for purposes other than prevention and they flatly won’t believe you because they’ve been brainwashed to believe otherwise. They don’t think you’re lying about it, they know you are. Birth control pills are abortion pills and they know it. After all, it’s what they’ve all been taught for decades and everyone in any position of authority to whom they will listen says so. You know, unlike satanist socialist hippie leftist who burn bras and don’t shave their legs or armpits. This is a sizable chunk of the American population and they are NOT living in tiny isolated enclaves in the Appalachians up in Maine.
You have to have an interest in order to research anything. A shocking number of young men (i.e., raised with the internet) are nearly completely ignorant of female anatomy, much less have any knowledge of the vagaries of each woman’s menstrual cycle. They aren’t lying and they aren’t willfully stupid; they’ve been taught that “vaginas” are gross except for sex and sex=babies. Nearly everywhere they go on the internet (and on television), this idea is firmly reinforced: Girl stuff is gross and probably contagious; real men don’t even want to hear that “pussy faggy shit”. “Don’t trust anything that bleeds for seven days and doesn’t die” is still a popular “joke”.
I grew up in the S.F. Bay Area when California public schools were still fantastic and we didn’t learn anything at all useful in “sex ed” course. Most of the young women with whom I shared foster homes knew less than I and that’s only because I had a fantastic mom AND I’d made an effort to go to Planned Parenthood and ask questions.
Cassidy
@asiangrrlMN: The reality, though, is we are reacting. We weren’t prepared for the ugliness that came up. The debate has already been framed. We lost that part.
Catsy
@Mnemosyne:
Didn’t say they would. But they do matter.
Nobody is missing the point of the spot. I get it. I just think a good ad would be more effective if it didn’t unintentionally and unnecessary reinforce part of the wingnut framing of birth control as something you have to justify.
These things matter. They may not necessarily be game-changers, but words and messaging matter. The intended audience for this ad is going to hear the message about their employers having veto power over the medical care of their lady parts. That’s good. But they’re also going to hear the messenger justifying her use of BC in a way that implies that she had a good reason for doing so as opposed to just wanting to abort babies or have dirty sex. That’s not so good, and we could and should do better.
I really do not get the pushback here. Why is there so much resistance to identifying where we can improve our messaging? Especially when the defensive phrasing that’s in contention is completely unnecessary to delivering the intended message of the ad?
Liberty60
@Mark S.: Yeah I saw that one too- My favorites were the comments about how Obama was afraid of debating Romney.
Gawd, I am looking forward to those.
Ruckus
@Villago Delenda Est:
I notice a theme here
FlipYrWhig
@Catsy: “Improve our messaging” to whom, though? The change you’re suggesting is a way to improve the ad’s messaging to sex-positive feminists who are exhausted by slut-shaming. But that’s not the audience. Banks’s story is more a case of saying, “I used a Planned Parenthood-affiliated doctor for my medical care, and when Republicans bash Planned Parenthood, they’re messing with things that have to do with women’s bodily experiences beyond their sexual freedom, so keep that in mind when you consider voting for a Republican.”. Plus, on top of that, Mnemosyne’s point about employer interference in medical decisions.
I mean, I’ve known a lot of people who would say it’s even politically mistaken to say that talking about “heavy flow” is embarrassing, because that reinforces the idea that the feminine body is a thing to be ashamed of. If we’re going to find ways that this ad is imperfect, we can. But, you know, imperfect to whom, for what purpose?
Brachiator
@Catsy:
This is only the beginning. The wingnut framing is wrong, unnecessary, and easily refuted.
It’s not just an argument about birth control or women’s reproductive rights (although it is clear that the wingnuts want to use women as their battleground here).
It’s not just that the wingnuts want employers to have veto power over the medical care of women’s lady parts. It’s that the wingnuts want religious authorities to be able to define and control the most significant medical decisions of all citizens. This is why they oppose the Health Care Act, and why they raise the false specter of religious rights of institutions.
Videos like the one highlighted here is just one of the first salvos in the counter attack against ignorance. It’s not the whole war.
Original Lee
@Carolinus: Linking civil servant compensation to the private sector? Whoo-hoo! Hubby will get a raise!
Rmoney definitely is pandering to the “overpaid government worker” meme here, and I seriously doubt if he knows or cares that many, many federal employees make two-thirds or half of what their private sector peers do. Those doctors at NIH aren’t earning what they could at Kaiser. Those pharmacists at the CDC and the FDA are earning less than they could at Walgreens! Those attorneys at the DOJ are earning less than they could at Akin Gump.
Yes, I think of the delicious budget shortfalls that would occur under this plan and bang my head on my desk because the Goopers will never get it, or want to.
Ruckus
@Onihanzo:
WTF?
Do you parse everyone’s speech to be exactly what you want them to say? Or only people with a point of view which is about 1 degree off of yours?
This video is one point. It is not the only point and what you are saying is there is only one point of view on this subject and it is mine. MINE and MINE alone. Get over yourself, join the parade called the human race. Realize there are more points, not only of view but of perspective than yours.
Speech can be additive. This adds to the war that has to be waged against conservatives. Some times you have to out flank an opponent instead of attacking head on. Some times you have to do both.
Cassidy
Horseshit. That is so not how this conversation started. It wasn’t an innocent “that’s pretty good, let’s see what we can do better” and then everyone shit a unicorn.
The crux of the argument is that we’re framing it wrong. I’ll say again, we lost that argument already. The framing has been decided. They won. We’re not getting a mulligan. Unfortunately, stating complete reasons in simple terms so that toddlers can understand it is where we are at with this debate.
Mnemosyne
@Catsy:
No? The majority of the people who first commented on it missed the entire part about Banks not wanting to discuss her heavy flow with her employer. Seems to me that a whole lot of people missed the point of the spot in their obsession with making sure the words were precisely right.
Sorry, I totally disagree. I think you’re concentrating on one or two words that no one else is going to notice.
We’re not losing abortion rights because women talk publicly about using birth control for reasons other than contraception. In fact, I would argue that the singular focus on abortion and sex by the left is actually part of the problem. It has allowed the right wing to separate contraception out from women’s health and claim that contraception is something different and separate from womens’ overall healthcare that women don’t really need.
To me, this ad puts contraception back into its proper place as just one of the many aspects of women’s health, which also includes things like prenatal care, menstrual care, cancer screenings, menopause care, and, yes, abortion. It points out that you can’t just excise contraception from women’s healthcare and expect to have healthy women as a result. Contraception is a necessary pillar of women’s healthcare, not a luxury item that should only be granted at the whim of one’s employer.
That’s what I think this ad is all about, and that’s why I think you completely missed the point of it with your obsession over “yes” and “but” being used in one sentence.
shortstop
@Catsy:
I don’t get it, either. With a couple of exceptions, everyone has said we like the ad’s power and recognize what it can/will achieve, even as we think it could be less defensive without changing its core message. Given that, as far as I can remember, most of us saying this have zero history as purity freaks, some of the reactionary response is…well, ironic.
shortstop
@Cassidy:
No, one, maybe two or three, people said that. Everyone else has been presenting much more nuanced opinions.
Onihanzo
@Ruckus: Die in a fire, you bed-wetting, late-to-the-game dogpiler. If you’d actually taken the effort to read these comments before weighing in, you’d have read that I conceded that the ad has merit and value and that I was off the mark by thinking that this was the only salvo against PP-haters.
But y’know… wouldn’t want to miss the chance at waving your turgid outrage erection at me first, amirite?
Dumb ass.
Onihanzo
@shortstop: Because some folks here can’t miss the opportunity to insult those who agree with them on the issues, maybe because it’s as close to a bowel movement as they might see all month. FuckifIknow.
Onihanzo
@Mnemosyne: Sorry, I totally disagree. I think you’re concentrating on one or two words that no one else is going to notice.
Catsy isn’t the only one who noticed.
Ruckus
@Onihanzo:
Hey asshole if you had a reasonable thought process in the first place you would have saved the trouble of having to recant. You come in and do a strafing pass on the blog and want no discussion? My post still stands. And I’m sorry that I can’t be here 24/7 to revel in the wonderfulness that is you, I hopefully live in a different fucking time zone and sometimes, have better things to do. Like pay anymore attention to you.