Sorry to continue with the deluge of Paul Ryan posts, but– when your idiot cousin inevitably talks about how serious Paul Ryan is, thanks to being such a deficit warrior, please refer him to this handy chart. It was prepared by the indispensable MSNBC show, Up with Chris Hayes. Click the photo for the source.
MikeJ
I thought all the TARP funds were paid back. How did they increase the deficit?
Mark S.
It’s really unfair to bring up how Ryan has voted in Congress. These are private matters that distract the conversation away from the economy.
Robin G.
My most distinct association with Ryan was that health care summit thing, where he and Bohner kept repeating how they needed to chuck Obamacare and start over with a “clean sheet of paper.” Over and over and over, including, IIRC, holding up literal blank papers. Then the expressions of befuddled dismay when they realized that the patented GOP approach of repeating a catchphrase a million times wasn’t working.
I look forward to seeing that expression again.
Violet
Paul Ryan’s voting history is off limits! We should be focusing on the issues.
Brian R.
If you point out Ryan’s record, he’ll get a big sad.
Also, please don’t check his math.
Baud
@MikeJ:
I don’t understand that chart. Deficits are annual numbers; the debt is cumulative. Obviously, Ryan supported policies that increased the deficit for certain years, but it’s not clear how that all breaks down.
Brian R.
On a related note, this old piece on the Ryan budget needs to be spread far and wide.
Violet
@Robin G.: That was a lot of fun to watch. I look forward to watching them try more ridiculous catchphrases and watch them also fail.
geg6
And that’s just his votes. Wait until someone picks apart his very serious budget plan and realizes it blows up the deficit to proportions making W look like the very soul of fiscal responsibility.
schrodinger's cat
Deficits don’t matter, if they are due the actions of Presidents who represent “real” Americans.
MikeJ
@Baud: Yeah, it’s not a good chart. When you’ve got someone who is such an obvious disaster to focus on you should be able to do better than that.
Rhoda
What I love is the effect this will have on house and senate races; the fact that democrats across the board will be running the same message is going to be so powerful despite the money Rove & Co. will spend trying to muddy the waters.
Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
I feel sick whenever I hear Republicans moaning about the “immoral” deficits an the “immoral” debt we’re handing down to “our children”. If these assholes had said anything about this when Bush was running up the tab, then I might give them a little leeway, but they never said anything. They were actualy even worried, when Bush came into ffice, that we were paying off the debt too fast. Oh, yeah, but then the black guy came into office, and all of a sudden, deficits and the debt are the worst things that ever happened.
Cargo
Silly chart! The only things that affect the deficit are greedy moochers, poors and olds, arts grants, NPR and PBS, and GM bailouts.
Zifnab
Remember when Republicans ran on “Saving Medicare” in 2010? I don’t know if they are going to manage that this time around.
burnspbesq
@MikeJ:
Even if they haven’t been, voting for TARP was the right thing to do. Like it or not, we would have been well and truly fucked if the banks had cratered to.
Also too, Viva Mexico! Campeones Olimpicos!
MikeJ
@Cargo: The teabaggers also hate TARP, so it is a good idea to hang that one on him. Just not in a way trying to claim that it ever cost the taxpayers any money since it, you know, didn’t.
Misterpuff
That’s what I’m talking about.
Catfood Pusher.
sloan
Watching Fox News and is it just me or is the wingnut reaction reminiscent of the Palin nonsense in 2008? He is totally overshadowing Romney.
Oh and Paul Ryan FTW because “Reagan Reagan Reagan!” Just heard that from Fox a few seconds ago. Can’t wait to see him in a cowboy hat eating jellybeans.
And also, Reagan.
burnspbesq
@Zifnab:
They’ll be relying on the average voter’s inability to recognize semantic Calvinball when they see it.
Hal
In my mind all the yea votes sounded like Ryan Lochte going jeah.
eyelessgame
Deficits aren’t a problem when the president is white.
Violet
Romney’s the gift that just keeps on giving:
He’s so excited about Ryan as a running mate that he refuses to talk about him.
Haydnseek
@Brian R.: Thanks for this. The information in the Time Magazine piece, and others like it, will appear in many forms, and it’s devastating. It’s all on the record, for all to see. Mittens can run, but he can’t hide.
Triassic Sands
@Violet:
Somehow I think the list of what is off the table is going to be pretty damn long. Mitt’s taxes? OTT. Ryan’s voting record? OTT. Responsible pet care? Off the table. And on and on and on and…
Anyway, Paul sure was a cute kid —
Paul Ryan Child Photo
amk
gopolitico sez that mittbot cancels teevee interviews after announcing the pick.
Why do I feel that mittbot was arm-twisted into picking the vouchercare boy ? His immediate distancing himself from the ryan’s
plancurse, his faux paus in introducing him and not appearing with his own pick all add fuel to that fire.eyelessgame
Also, the chart sucks. Deficit and debt are not the same thing.
Misterpuff
When is the Media going to point out that spending is OK during a Republican admin but verboten during a Dem administration. Time for the Media to call bullshit (if their balls weren’t in the corporation’s pockets)
Misterpuff
When is the Media going to point out that spending is OK during a Republican admin but verboten during a Dem administration. Time for the Media to call bullshit (if their balls weren’t in the corporation’s pockets)
burnspbesq
@Violet:
The Rombot is temporarily offline for a system update. Please try to log in later.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mark S.:
win!
spongeworthy
This is what happens when you get your numbers from the CBPP–those that understand them find them dishonest. Take the Bush tax cuts: We get that the CBPP would take a look at national income and apply the pre-Bush tax rates and see what the revenue would have been. Subtract the actual revenue and that’s what the CBPP will tell you the Bush tax cuts cost us.
People who actually understand economics would never try to pretend the tax cuts didn’t affect GDP and present a static number. Then the CBPP tells you this number over 7 years is what counts for today’s deficit. It’s blatantly dishonest. Some of you will swallow this, but not all.
arguingwithsignposts
The last word belies your apology.
scav
@Violet: help help help help help this hurts. i’m supposed to be doing things not watching a national campaign descend into some sort of post-zeitgheist dada interpretive dance.
Villago Delenda Est
@Misterpuff:
Never
SATSQ.
They are totally owned by the corporate parasites.
Anoniminous
@Violet:
Jesus Christ!!
They release the pick on a Saturday, during the Olympics, and then refuse to grab free publicity from the talkety-talk shows?
Hal
This whole affair confuses the hell out of me. You announce your choice on Saturday with the Olympics going on, you cancel all TV appearances, you immediately distance yourself from the plan your pick is by far most famous for. Maybe Mitt’s dropping out and Ryan was the only one willing to take the job?
I did say before that Romney’s flailing campaign and tax returns dodging was giving me serious Obama/Jack Ryan vibes, and now Romney picks Paul Ryan? Coincidence? I think not. Obviously I’m psychic.
sloan
OT but WTF MSNBC? All they got is “Lockup: Raw” for the next 4 hours.
Who watches that shit?
Baud
@scav:
Haha. Me too! I had plans today. Damn you, Romney!
burnspbesq
@spongeworthy:
Just don’t even start with the bullshit about dynamic scoring. Your credibility is already shaky enough without going there.
Villago Delenda Est
@eyelessgame:
“Ronald Reagan proved that deficits do not matter” – Dick Cheney.
Violet
@amk: Family member of mine who has extensive experience and training in giving presentations, including how to stand, body language, etc. and what that communicates to the audience dissected Romney’s intro (the flub part) and subsequent “I made a mistake”. Analysis was that Romney is incredibly uncomfortable up there, doesn’t want to interact with regular people and does not want to be President. Ryan is comfortable, looks the more assured of the two, and comes across as someone comfortable with his role.
We were even stopping the DVR to discuss the relative arm positions of the two, and at one point my family member pointed out that Romney’s arm communicated “stay back” to the audience, where as Ryan was waving. It’s subtle stuff, but part of why Romney is so off-putting to a lot of people.
Mark S.
@Violet:
Wouldn’t you want to be doing interviews right now when the attention is off your tax returns for once?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@amk:
Sounds like a last minute change of plans and there are lots and lots of questions and contradictions that Fernstrom hasn’t come up with word-salad to answer with. I don’t think this is as bad as Palin, but Romney is not smooth or agile with this kind of thing. OTOH, the media is head over heels in love with Ryan, and by labor day “Ryan Budget” will replace simpsonbowles as the new totem of Seriousness on MTP and whatever the hell the Sam and Cokie Show (and George Will, as The Beaver) is called now, and they’ll know just as much about the details as they do about SB
schrodinger's cat
@Violet: Which begs the question, why is he running, when it is clear that his heart isn’t really in it.
Nick
Not particularly surprising, considering their track record, but it is amazing how quickly the Slate front page has been filled with Paul Ryan puff pieces….
A Brad DeLong sez, why can’t we have a better press corps?
Mark S.
@Violet:
Romney’s afraid of catching poor (as in worth less than $10 million) people germs.
Violet
@scav:
Ha! I’d say you owe me a new keyboard, but I just finished my tea. I think this sums up the Romney campaign very well.
Martin
Here’s the real problem with Ryan. Aside from getting elected to the House (which is a minimum prerequisite to being selected to be a VP candidate), what are his accomplishments?
The Ryan Budget never passed. He’s had no other legislation passed.
He’s a conservative Dennis Kucinich.
Mark S.
@schrodinger’s cat:
Daddy issues? That seems to be the only reason W. ran.
Violet
@Mark S.: You’d think. But maybe they’re afraid Romney will get asked about Ryan’s taxes? You know, like how many returns did he ask Ryan to submit?
amk
@Martin: Good question.
Dennis SGMM
@schrodinger’s cat:
Romney wants to prove to himself that he really can buy anything he wants.
Violet
@schrodinger’s cat: It’s definitely a question. I think it’s Daddy issues again, just like the last several GOP candidates–McCain, Bush II, Bush I. I am not sure what it is with GOP candidates and their Daddy issues, but it’s definitely a thing.
Jay in Oregon
Hopefully we can spend the next couple of months tying every single Republican and teabagger running for office to Ryan’s plan as well.
“If Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan get elected, will you vote for Ryan budget plan, even though it will slash services for the poor and elderly and drive up the federal debt?”
Hmmm, needs work… Too bad “death panels” have already been used…
Violet
I forgot to add, my family member who does the presentations also commented that the whole thing looked like a high school play–a good idea, poor execution and nobody knew their lines. Even the set looked cheaply thrown together.
Alison
@Martin: And he doesn’t even have the 7-foot-tall hot Elf Queen wife to keep him interesting.
Jewish Steel
NYT:
lol
@MikeJ:
The TARP funds aren’t all paid back yet, some will never be paid back, the majority has been paid back with interest. When all is said and done, we’ll probably break even or make a very small amount of money. But we’re not there yet.
sloan
@Martin: Well for one thing, he’s a gym rat, and does the P-90X workout (from the late night infomercials). I’ve heard that one 27 times in the last 12 hours.
Also, he has a SUNNY DISPOSITION like a certain Republican 80s President who shall remain nameless. Hint: Not Bush Sr.
And I was reliably informed by Luke Russert last night that Paul Ryan is one cool dude. He walks around the Hill with his headphones on, listening to Nirvana. Not making that up.
So yeah, he’s like a cross between Alex P. Keaton and Ferris Bueller. Good times.
Violet
Somewhere, John McCain is thanking the political gods. Sarah Palin doesn’t look quite as bad a pick as she used to.
Jewish Steel
Also plus: ORC poll!
Do you approve or disapprove of the way Sauron is handling the economy?
spongeworthy
@burnspbesq: By “credibility” you mean “lockstep truth avoidance”, right?
So fine, forget dynamic scoring–if you want to pretend tax rates don’t affect activity, you’re free to do so.
Can you defend using 7 years of deficit numbers to explain this years deficit, as the CBPP has done in the chart? Is Chris Hayes too stupid or too dishonest to catch their “error”? Has to be one of the two.
Violet
@Jewish Steel: Ha! Excellent.
Redshift
@Violet:
My guess is that they had the interviews lined up as the latest attempt to distract from the tax/Bain issues, and now they have a better distraction, so they’re not risking Romney taking actual questions because he’s likely to say something incredibly damaging again.
Martin
And nobody can accuse the GOP of not being the party of diversity. This time they’re going to have a Mormon and a Catholic sucking up to the Jews.
wrb
Ryan and Romney are so similar I think he might have the unintended effect of narrowing Romney’s appeal by making more vivid his least appealing chacteristics and with whom he is and isn’t comfortable.
White, rich, obnoxious country-club frat boys.
Everybody loves ’em.
Just the thing to pull the Hispanic and blue-collar votes.
They are clones, they are Stepford wives.
Amir Khalid
So Mitt names his running mate on a Saturday morning, disavows the running mate’s signature policy proposal, and hides from the media when he should be out there milking the announcement for every percentage point he can gain in the polls. I too find myself tending to the theory that Paul Ryan, a rising star who threatens to upstage Mitt, was forced upon him.
I think it’s dawning upon Mitt that this is how it will be throughout his candidacy and any term he serves as President: the party will be the boss of him, not the other way around as he’d been expecting. So now he’s now basically sulking.
amk
Anyone on for a 10000 dollar bet that mittbot sez ‘fuck it all, you nosey peasants. I quit’ next week ?
Just throwing in my marker there in case it happens.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Violet: Not just GOP candidates, but a disturbingly large part of the Bigfoot media: Russert, Tweety, Brokaw, Wiliams to a less obvious extent, the whole Vietnam guilt/WWII obsession is how/why those first three created The McCain Myth. Russert is the fantasy daddy to Williams. I once saw Brokaw interviewing Pumpkinhead and his father, and after Pumpkinhead got done with his goggle-eyed, awestruck recounting of how his father single-handedly saved the world from Hitler and then came home and built the US economy, Brokaw turned to the decidedly non-plussed “Big Russ”, a nickname his son invented when he wrote a book late in both their lives, which I always thought was really fucking weird, and the old man kinda shrugged and said pretty much, “yeah, I got drafted then I came home and got a job”
Keith
I missed the speech. Did Mitt call out to Obama to say it would help his campaign if Team Obama only talked about Ryan’s blue eyes and seriousness?
sloan
@wrb:
Not true. Romney parts his hair on the left, Ryan parts it on the right.
Violet
@sloan: I expect the early reports on Ryan to be fluffy and pleasant. It’s what happens next week and the week after that’s more interesting. This is just the “getting to know you” stage. The more the Obama campaign can define Ryan right now, the better it will be.
I also suspect that Palin may have some impact on what the media does with Ryan. More than just a few members of the media were embarrassed by how poorly they did their job re: Palin. I suspect a few of those are not going to let that happen again with Ryan. Only a few, of course. Most won’t care. But those few can make a difference.
Jamey
@Violet: Besides, Ryan was against those things before he was for them…
I still say it’s going to be a close race, thanks to the Luke Russerts and Chris Cilizza’s of the world. But having Ryan as the never-had-a-job-in-his-life champion of the working and middle classes is at least going to make Election ’12 more fun to follow.
wrb
@Amir Khalid:
A Gen-u-ine profile in courage, that there.
I think this prevents an open rebellion on Tampa at the expense of losing a bunch of fence-sitters.
I think it might help the downticket races as Twit/Ryan(aka twit2)/Ryan Plan come to define the GOP,
Jewish Steel
@amk: My cousin thinks the same thing.
Dennis SGMM
@Amir Khalid:
Romney likely called off those appearances because he has to figure out a way to walk back the more odious aspects of the Ryan plan without pissing off the tea baggers. Inasmuch as Romney is unable to pour piss out of a boot even if the instructions are printed on the heel we are in for some world-class floundering.
gogol's wife
@Baud:
Me too! My husband went out to the store so I could stay home and “write.”
wrb
@Jamey:
Liar! He drove a wiener mobile.
Chyron HR
@spongeworthy:
It’s really quite telling that, 4 hours after the official Ryan announcement and half a day since the news first leaked, the only thing any of our resident Republicans have had to say is this generic babbling that, “Waaah, numbers are liberal lies.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Violet:
I doubt it. Have you ever seen an glimmer of a suggestion of introspection or responsibility in these people? The Iraq War just kinda happened, and it’s no big deal, really. Like Bush, Palin couldn’t hide the stupid no matter how much help they got. Ryan is like Cheney, Rumsfeld or Rice– poised, articulate and confident, Cokie, Dave and the rest never noticed the fact that they were stunningly incompetent. As @Jamey: said, Ryan’s audience is Luke Russert and Chris Cillizza; to Little Pumpkinhead, Ryan is just like the dudes he knew in his frat house; to Cillizza, he’s just like the dudes he wished had let him into their frat house.
Martin
@sloan:
Clark Kent parted his hair on the right. Superman parted it on the left.
Movie villains typically part on the right, heroes on the left. At least Hollywood has accepted the theory.
scav
Seriously, like Rupert Murdoch chiming in as to the brilliance of the pick is going to help with his heady eau d’ Entitled Legally Dogdey Internationally Opportunistic Moneybag aroma.
This isn’t the Preaching To, this is Pleading With the Choir moment.
Violet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: We’ll see. I think some of the media will do a better job with Ryan.
Bruce S
Aside from his fealty to the sociopathic cult novelist Ayn Rand, the following is IMHO the single most salient fact attached to Paul Ryan:
There is not an ounce of “fiscal conservative” in this scheme – it’s privatization for the sake of ideology – Ayn Rand’s “moral foundation” for unbridled capitalism of the sort that makes sociopaths and parasites like Dick Cheney and Mitt Romney multi-millionaires many times over.
Omnes Omnibus
@Martin: Listen, mate, I part my hair on the right. My dad parts his hair on the right. His dad parted his hair on the right. Of course, we are all movie villains, so you may have a point.
Argive
@MikeJ:
As I understand it, the TBTF banks repaid their TARP money, but AIG didn’t and the Treasury is projecting billions of dollars worth of losses there. Not sure about the smaller banks that received TARP funds.
burnspbesq
@spongeworthy:
That’s rich: the party that invented dishonest use of numbers complaining about being hoist by its own petard.
The simple reality is that the last Republican administration presided over the largest unfunded spending binge in the history of mankind, and the presumptive Rublican nominees not only were complicit in that action, they think it’s the greatest thing since cold beer.
Your self-proclaimed economic ideas guy is profoundly unserious and massively ignorant about economics, and he lies. Deal with it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Bruce S:
exactly– and our beloved SCLM will never get that, they really don’t understand what an ideologue is, and as Josh Marshall once observed, they find it odd and vaguely embarrassing that all those noisy, foul-mouthed, vituperative leftists think politics actually has some effect on people’s lives
@Omnes Omnibus: drives me crazy how people are always prejudging me because I lurk in the shadows, my face half hidden by the hood of my cloak.
burnspbesq
@Argive:
Whatever else you may think about him, Geithner is doing an excellent job of managing the Government’s stake in AIG for maximum return. The only mistake he’s made so far is not getting the IRS logo on Manchester United’s kit.
MikeJ
@Argive: It’s not as if the government got nothing out of AIG. We still own 53% of their stock after selling $5billion last week. Another tranche will go on sale in September.
schrodinger's cat
@Martin: What about those who part their hair in middle or what if you have no hair to part?
The Ancient Randonneur
Kathy Gill has a great takedown of Mitt’s new bestest little buddy.
Amir Khalid
@schrodinger’s cat:
And what if you’re left-handed, like I am? When I had hair long enough to part, I parted it on the left
burnspbesq
@Amir Khalid:
There’s a reason why the word “sinister” comes from the same Latin root as “sinistral,” the fancy word for left-handed.
Martin
@Omnes Omnibus: And I part my hair on my left, as my father did, as my son does. Not a day goes by when we don’t pull children from burning buildings.
But I really await the day we have a deliberately bald presidential candidate with a tattoo.
Martin
@burnspbesq: Obama is left handed.
moonbat
@Jewish Steel: You win!
schrodinger's cat
@Martin: So was Clinton, not sure about Dubya.
Martin
@schrodinger’s cat: Cool. There’s a wikipedia page about it.
Obama, Clinton, HW Bush all left handed. Dubya was right handed. Reagan went both ways.
liberal
@Argive:
TARP was but one part of the overall program, and not necessarily even the biggest part.
Fanny and Freddie alone are going to cost us $150B or more.
dianne
They should add
ObamaCare No Deficit Increase: 2.6 Trillion.
Argive
@liberal:
Yeah, that’s right. Fannie and Freddie slipped my mind.