Sucks to be you, lady:
The rusty stains on Shirley Carter’s home are a permanent reminder of her fight with the local steel mill, just down U.S. Highway 17 near the boat docks. No matter how many cans of industrial-strength acid she went through, the red tint on her property never seemed to go away.
In 1998, Carter and her neighbors sued Georgetown Steel, then owned by the company Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney co-founded, Bain Capital. They sought millions in cleanup costs and accused the mill’s owners of leaving their historic Southern neighborhood looking like it had been hit by a “chemical bomb.”
State officials determined the mill was largely to blame for the pollution. As the lawsuit dragged on for years, the steel mill filed for bankruptcy and the plant ultimately settled with the residents.
In the end, Bain walked away with more than $30 million in profits. Carter got $800.
“That wasn’t even enough to paint the house,” said Carter, who is a Romney supporter this election.
As a presidential candidate, Romney has pledged to roll back environmental regulations as a way to spur growth. Under President Barack Obama, he recently quipped, “a regulator would have shut down the Wright Brothers for their ‘dust pollution.'”
But the story of Georgetown Steel shows how Romney’s company thrived under conditions that largely allowed the emissions to continue for years, leaving locals to clean up the mess after Bain left town.
You’ll get no sympathy from me, lady. First, you aren’t a billionaire, so it’s your fault for being lazy and not being able to buy elections for candidates that would do your bidding. Second, if you didn’t want chemical stains on your house (not to mention your lungs), you shouldn’t have built it where Mitt Romney could make a profit decades later. What were you thinking?
In all seriousness, I love the symmetry between this story and the Romney/Ryan plan- millions for the ultra-rich and a warm bucket of spit for everyone else, just like the Ryan plan. I wonder if America is stupid enough to elect these two.
(via)
SamR
“That wasn’t even enough to paint the house,” said Carter, who is a Romney supporter this election.
IS A ROMNEY SUPPORTER. Unreal.
West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)
Well, we were stupid enough to elect (sort of) and then re-elect Shrub.
BGinCHI
Wait. What?
Oh, it must be South Carolina.
Yep.
Let’s just pretend they fired on Fort Sumter and give them a receipt and a nice parting gift for their succession.
WaterGirl
@West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.): And Reagan. Twice.
schrodinger's cat
Here is hoping that the creepy duo R2 will lose all states except the deep South
maya
Shirley Carter must be suffering from Splattered House Syndrome.
mechwarrior online
Seen the youtube video of Ryan mocking an elderly man being hauled off crying about his medicare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBhdXfCdaA8&feature=player_embedded
JPL
Since I live in GA, there are many times that I have expressed the same thing as John.
WaterGirl
@BGinCHI: Didn’t Oprah and South Carolina give Obama one of the early primaries in 2008? That’s kind of a big deal, so maybe we can forgive them, just this once?
But this lady must be incredibly stupid if she can’t connect those dots. They’re made of rust, and they’re on her driveway, after all.
Corner Stone
I don’t think this can be said enough in this thread:
BGinCHI
r2d2
Romney/Ryan
Deceptive/Dipshits
Hunter Gathers
White people, yes. Those of non-European stock? Not so much.
gbear
The only consolation I can take from this story is that someone less stupid than her will cancel out her vote.
BGinCHI
@WaterGirl: I think Oprah gave him a Chevy Cavalier, but SC just gave him the finger.
Punchy
Cuz gheyz can marry and the gov’t helps with health care and Plan B is sold at Walgreens. Ya know, the important stuff.
Haydnseek
@West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.): Beat me to it. Americans will elect fucking ANYBODY. B-movie actors, peanut farmers, you name it. You don’t need to be intelligent, or experienced, or qualified, or any fucking thing. You just have to learn how to blow enough smoke up enough ignorant asses and you have a chance. We do get it right once in awhile, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. I wouldn’t pull a hammie doing victory laps yet, people. Let history teach you humility, and go from there.
Davis X. Machina
Tribe. Is. Strong.
There are more definitions of ‘self-interest’, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Omnes Omnibus
@maya: ::golf clap::
cathyx
If she’s stupid enough to vote for Romney after what she went through, she deserves to have her medicare and social security taken away from her too.
Davis X. Machina
@WaterGirl: Put another way, South Carolina kept us from getting Hillary in 2008….
Not that it matters to me, particularly — just sayin’….
Napoleon
the answer to your question is yes.
Mark S.
Ms. Carter must really hate black people.
Hypatia's Momma
@cathyx:
But the rest of us don’t and the Romney/Ryan plan isn’t that selective.
WaterGirl
@Davis X. Machina: It mattered to me! :-)
Waynski
@cathyx: She does, but that means we lose ours too. We have to fight for everyone, even if they’re too fucking stupid to live.
Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
These fucking people. Rmoney pisses all over her house, then flings a few nickels at her, and now she’s going to vote for him. What a fucking moran. These people remind me of that guy Kevin Bacon played in Animal House, the pledge at the evil frat, bent over while Niedermeyer pounds his ass with an oar, bleating, “Thank you sir, may I have another?” If we could rope these pinheads off from all the rest of us and let Rmoney and Ryan fuck them sideways, it would be justice, I guess, and kind of fun to watch in a mildly sadistic way, but the only way to give these people what they so dearly want and so deserve is to let Rmoney fuck all of us over, too. So, satisfying as it would be to watch this woman, and others like her, take it up the ass and then thank Rmoney for violating them, I think I’ll pass.
Mr Stagger Lee
@cathyx: She doesn’t mind, if she gets lung cancer, JEEEEZUSSSS will cure her, and if not JEEEZUSS will break bread with her in heaven, she’s covered in her mind.
cmorenc
@John Cole (quoting AP story on lady with Bain-profit toxified house):
This lady perfectly illustrates how many American voters are unfortunately in the thrall of a “battered spouse” syndrome with their abusers, the GOP 1 per center politicos. They’ll get fucked, beaten to a pulp, and yet go crawling back to their abuser in the voting booth.
Todd
I’m inclined to lobby hard for Medicare to be wiped out for everybody if Romney wins. The oldsters need to taste what they’re doing to us.
Violet
I’m hoping this is the first of a trend of stories. Romney/Bain Capital destroy someone’s life or ruin their home or something. Person is shown to support Romney. Enough stories like this and people will start to connect the dots. Idiots vote against their own interests, even when they have been directly hurt by Romney or the Republicans. Shine a light on it. Point and laugh. People have to see it to believe it.
Valdivia
@BGinCHI:
you win the internets today sir. :)
cathyx
She hates gays and people of color more than she hates that she got screwed by Bain.
mechwarrior online
@Haydnseek:
To be completely fair that peanut farmer was also a nuclear submarine commander, which is not a job you get by being an idiot.
Furthermore I’d much rather we had a broader background in leadership than our current “had to have gone to Harvard or Yale” nonsense that dominates all our “elite” institutions and explains why they never bother to fix what their fellow “elites” do to the rest of us. We may have elected an African American president but he came from the same academic pedigree that all the other assholes screwing us over and who caused this mess did and he right away sided with them and sold us all down the river.
The brightest and best educated have a horrible addiction to fucking the rest of us over at every possible chance. Let’s get some state school grads in things like computer science, medicine, history, elected in office rather than the endless parade of ivy league blow hard lawyers.
Mike in NC
@Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):
Churchill said it best about 70 years ago: “Americans will always do the right thing after they’ve exhausted all the alternatives”.
mechwarrior online
@Davis X. Machina:
I’m not a fan of Hillary Clinton, well the Clintons’ in general, so I’m happy we didn’t end up with her. I’m not much of a fan of Obama either. However I’m slightly glad we have a new “crazy” to deal with rather than rehashing all the lesbian love triangle murders, Vince Foster watermelon shoots, and all that insanity from the 90’s.
seaboogie
@mechwarrior online: Would love to see Obama or a liberal superPAC use that in an ad – the handcuffs are a particularly nice touch that would make a lovely metaphor for what he wants to do to the working poor and middle class while handing over our cash to the wealthy for whom there is just never enough.
Kristine
@cmorenc:
The GOP would tell them that it’s all the Democrats’ fault, and they would believe them. One thing I’ve learned at the day job is that it doesn’t matter how many graphs and charts you show some folks. Data don’t matter. Facts don’t matter. It’s coded into their DNA that godless Dems tax and spend and the GOP is the party of Jesus and fiscal responsibility. Add a healthy dollop of racism, stir in terror of change. It’s what they live on.
David Koch
SC voted for Gingrich in a landslide. They went wild during the debates when Newt said black children should be forced to clean toilets.
so you can rape and loot their community, but it’s okay, as long as you leave some race baiting on the dresser.
Maude
@Mark S.:
This.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Violet
@Kristine: That’s why I suggest pointing and laughing is one of the better tactics. Point out her idiocy. You’re not going to change her mind, but you might change someone else’s who is a bit more on the fence.
Randiego
Sam Stein just tweeted that Ryan will be heading to Florida next weekend to “highlight” Obama cutting Medicare for current senior citizens.
Prepare for flim-flam and distortions. Their only chance is to twist reality. Cuts to Medicare payments to providers will become drastic cuts to current recipients.
Davis X. Machina
@Randiego:
It worked in 2010…..there’s no reason to think it wouldn’t work now.
Violet
@Randiego: I’m hoping the Obama campaign has some Medicare ads readied.
Cap'n Magic
Wow-Ryan almost looks like Mr. Morden. (At the 0:55 mark)
Violet
@Davis X. Machina: Obama wasn’t on the ticket in 2010. It’s a different election. Plus, teabaggers are somewhat discredited. Floridians aren’t very happy with their teabagger Governor.
Robert Sneddon
@mechwarrior online: Ummm, nope. Carter applied for nuclear sub school in the Navy but resigned his commission in 1953 when his father died to take over the family business. He never commanded a Navy vessel as far as I can tell although he did qualify as a diesel sub commander.
4tehlulz
Rich asshole wannabe detected.
fourlegsgood
And why, exactly, is she still a Romney supporter? I swear to god, republican voters are simply too stupid to live.
West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)
More stupefying to me than this woman was the Latina woman on NPR (a nurse) who was going to vote for Robmey because he more closely reflected her values. Gack!
fourlegsgood
@Randiego: I had coffee with a friend yesterday – I pointed out to him (he’s a dem anyway) that everyone OUR age (born 1958) would get screwed on medicare by virtue of being born a matter of months too late. He completely blanched. “Hadn’t thought of it that way.”
I have. Romney will make sure I can’t buy health insurance now, and make sure that I can’t get it later either.
Joe Bauers
“I wonder if America is stupid enough to elect these two.”
Nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
“I wonder if America is stupid enough to elect these two.”
If Romney were half the politician that Obama is, I’d say maybe.
This isn’t about the stupidity of the American electorate. There’s no debate about the depths of foolishness when it comes to American voters. That’s a settled matter. As a mob, we’re fucking morons.
The thing is, is that Romney sucks. He lies a lot, but he does so needlessly and obviously. He’s universally disliked. The more people see of him, the more they can’t stand him.
Ryan too, on that last bit. Check his polling. Check out what happened last time he faced the public. The only reason he’s not as universally despised as Romney (outside the 27%ers) is that he’s relatively unknown. He’s better at lying for sure, but do any of you HONESTLY believe that his desire to “reshape” (heh) Medicare is going to play, regardless of how much the MSM fluffs him? Seriously? Seriously? Do you not remember what happened LAST TIME his plan was front and center? The public spat in his zombie face. And that was even with the entire MSM fapping all over his “bold” plan.
Get fucking real.
Brian R.
@fourlegsgood:
If they keep voting Republican, they’ll be dead soon enough.
So will the rest of us, though.
Todd
@Randiego:
If this works for them, burn it all out. Starving, untreated grannies can live under overpasses in Florida, and I won’t give a shit – they’ll have “their” country back, run by the same fucking glib dumbassed white boys in nice suits that they’ve always trusted (and been fucked by) before.
Davis X. Machina
@Violet: The 65+ vote in 2010 went +20% GOP. Halve that, and there’s still a problem. Obama not being on the ballot probably kept that number down.
Have you tried to explain to someone the difference between rolling down the shutters on Medicare Advantage and shifting the (indefensible) expenditures on its subsidies to private insurance back to the general Medicare population on the one hand, and ‘cutting Medicare’ on the other? To someone old, who watches cable tv news all day?
There’s a task there, and no small one, for Obama’s campaign.
MikeJ
@Robert Sneddon: Carter has been inside a reactor that was melting down, and studied nuclear engineering at Union college. So while he was never in command of a nuclear sub at sea, he was very well qualified to talk about nukes.
Davis X. Machina
Other recent non-Ivy-or-Ivoid presidents include Reagan (Drake) and Nixon (Whittier, Duke Law)….
Linda Featheringill
@Todd: #29
About 12% of the total population in the US is aged 65 or older. All adults in the US minus the oldsters make up about 65% of the population.
There just aren’t enough old folks to carry an election by themselves.
mamayaga
@Randiego:
Despite the fact that Ryan’s but relies on the EXACT SAME cuts to achieve Medicare savings!
Seems to me that Dems have some pithy responses to this nonsense if they’d only use them:
“Do want us to just write a blank check to insurance companies?” That was what was happening with Medicare Advantage before the insurance companies were forced to accept the same level of reimbursement that other Medicare providers get.
“The money saved gets plowed back into Medicare.” This is true — money saved this way is money that can (and will) be applied fund govt programs (unless the Romney/Ryan budget is enacted, of course, in which case the savings will go into the pockets of the 1%). The money saved will extend the life of Medicare as currently funded by 8 years.
“Have you noticed any decrease in your benefits?” The new Medicare savings from this source have been in effect for a couple of years. Where’s the disaster?
I was really disappointed to hear that Rachel wasn’t prepared for this nonsense when she joined the bobbleheads this week. She, and anybody with a clueless senior relative or friend should bone up on this and be ready.
TexasMango
@cathyx: I’m guessing she’s willing to sacrifice her home if it will save the unborn.
Blacks/browns, gays, guns and unborn fetuses is what it’s all about for fools like this woman.
Linda Featheringill
@Todd: #54
I think you are suffering from a bad case of agism. I think you imagine that older people have this great power and then you get angry because they don’t use this wonderful power the way you want them to.
4tehlulz
R^2 embraces generational warfare and goes all in on coupon care.
More choices, like win the lottery or die.
amk
@mechwarrior online:
umm, they all support the rethugs. your obama hatred is showing
Davis X. Machina
@Linda Featheringill: They’re predisposed to vote, and that makes an enormous difference. And it takes a lifetime for the successful among them who didn’t inherit, to finally amass the kind of money it takes to buy candidates and campaigns.
The median influencer is very different from the median voter, and he or she in turn is different from the median eligible voter.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@mamayaga: “Seems to me that Dems have some pithy responses to this nonsense if they’d only use them”
You can expect that Obama and the various pro-Obama SuperPACs are prepared to go full-metal Truman on this arseclown.
“Civility” is dead. The fainting couches have been burned to keep the huddled masses of our waning middle class warm.
And thank god for that.
Southern Beale
BECAUSE WHY….?! Because she’s a fucking idiot? Why would you support Romney when you see how he ran his business is EXACTLY how he wants to run the country.
I guess I should hit the link to see if the story tells us. SIGH.
Steeplejack
Just turned to 60 Minutes for a couple of minutes of the joint Romney-Ryan interview (with the drooling Bob Schieffer). Horrible, just horrible. Ryan gassing about Obama’s “failed policies” and how the GOP is going to focus like a laser on jobs. So Schieffer turns to Romney and asks him about his mini-gaffe of introducing Ryan as the next president of the United States. Haw-haw-haw. WTF?!
NotMax
@mamayaga
Plus, Obama didn’t make any cuts – the funding savings were made by Congressional Dems to try to appease Republicans clamoring for offsets to spending.
Anya
Sounds like chemicals didn’t damage only her house or lungs but possibly her brain as well. Only way to explain her support for Mittenz.
Davis X. Machina
@Steeplejack: Schieffer is doing his job, keeping the focus where it belongs. He’s an entertainer, and gaffes are entertaining.
Policy is hard. Entertaining is easy.
Baud
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
Exactly. I don’t know why people think that any message the Republicans put forward will automatically succeed. Isn’t Medicare cuts something like the fifth message Romney has tried against Obama? In a couple of weeks, he’ll be forced to move onto something else.
OzoneR
If only Obama had used the bully pulpit…
Violet
@Davis X. Machina:
Not exactly. But pointing out that Ryan wants to give old people a coupon to buy health insurance on the open market, while President Obama wants to make sure they keep their Medicare is a very good way to counter it.
Roger Moore
@mamayaga:
I’m inclined to think that this is the way to go. The cuts have already taken place, so if you’re not suffering from them now there’s nothing to worry about.
Kristine
@fourlegsgood:
I have. Born in 1958. Working for a company that is splitting in two by year’s end. Those of us with 20+ years in who are going with the “new” half of the company are concerned about what will happen to retiree benefits, especially subsidized health insurance. If I had to, I might be able to get through 8-10 years without decent coverage. But the rest of my life?
Funny. One of the O-haters at the day job is another 50-something who has said more than once that one of his fears is that he may have to look for health insurance on the open market for himself and his wife. But can he connect the dots between that and the benefits the ACA could provide?
I think everyone here knows what the answer is.
Southern Beale
@Steeplejack:
It’s the honeymoon phase. It will wear off, trust me.
Davis X. Machina
@4tehlulz:
Tomorrow’s top story, under the headline “Opinions On Shape Of Planet Differ“.
salacious crumb
It’s all about hatred of brown people..as Steve Coll from New Yorker put it. These folks dont care about how much is robbed from them or how the right (or left) plays them for a patsy. Its all about ensuring that some minority doesnt have the opportunity to be successful and marry their white daughter (and thereby, diluting their “culture”)
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Violet: This. A good argument is simple. It’s not as important to be detailed. In fact, details obfuscate, and allow openings for gifted weasels to twist things into something they are not. The GOP is a master of that.
Luckily, Obama and his team are on it. They know how to win messaging wars. The best thing Romney’s campaign can do is stay the hell away from mics and cameras. For all the damage those devices do to his campaign, they may as well be AKs and RPGs
NotMax
@
Ah, now the R2$2 ticket is pro-choice?
:)
MikeJ
@Baud:
And does anybody on the face of the earth think that the “tax and spend, give everything away to everybody” Democrats want to kill Medicare while the Republicans want to keep it?
We’ve lived with 40 years of Republican framing of Democratic programs. It will be a hard sell for them to convince people that the party they’ve defined one way is actually the exact opposite.
Linda Featheringill
@Davis X. Machina: #64
Yes, older people tend to vote. I don’t deny that.
My point is that if every person aged 65 or older voted the same way, and if every voter under the age of 65 voted another way, the oldsters would still be on the losing side because they are a minority.
[Yeah, not everyone the same age votes the same way. This is just an illustration.]
John O
I think things are going to get worse before they get better, and this means a big part of me is hoping for a GOP sweep. Give the nutters what they want. At least a few will change their minds over 4 years.
I’m 53, and looking at the end of my life. I want it to be…all right. For everyone. I think a Romney win will make it so.
Though one has to wonder what kind of freak the GOP will nominate if they get creamed this time.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@John O: No fucking way.
I won’t watch my country burn. You’ll be dead soon enough. The rest of us still have to live here.
Suffern Ace
@4tehlulz: Good. Cause I choose when I get old to forego the kidney failure and Parkinson’s and go for the prostate cancer and congestive heart failure. Why should I pay for coverage of conditions I don’t want to have?
Violet
So I’m having dinner next week with a friend who is extremely uninformed politically. She generally votes Republican out of habit and has also married into a well-off family and gets lots of Obama/Democrat hatred from them. She is persuadable, however, and she voted for Obama in 2008, mostly because of healthcare.
She’s got a parent who has a health issue and who is about to run out of money. The parent is currently in assisted living, but will run out of money soon and they will probably have to resort to Medicaid or pay for it themselves. They have money, but not that much money.
She’s complained before about how crappy the Medicaid system is and how it needs changing. I think I’ve got a golden opportunity to point out how Romney/Ryan would change Medicaid in such a way that it wouldn’t be an option and her parent would probably have to move in with them or live on the street.
Any tips on how I should frame this issue so she can understand it. In a nice and helpful way, of course. I could beat her over the head with her idiocy for even considering voting Republican, but that’s not going to work.
mamayaga
@John O: I remember being tempted to think that way about Reagan and voodoo economics. It was so crazy, and would obviously seriously screw our economy. It was and it did, and how’d that work out?
Davis X. Machina
@Linda Featheringill: They don’t just have a greater propensity to vote. They have more time and more resources to do all the other stuff as well, especially the money. The median age of a large campaign donor is 70.
Baud
@Violet:
You might want to bone up on how Obama has expanded Medicaid also, if it’s relevant to her situation.
Anya
@Steeplejack: That drooling old fool needs to retire. He’s shameless. Why didn’t they have 60 Minutes regulars interview the Rs? I bet the Romney campaign demanded it.
4tehlulz
@Violet: “Can you get assisted living for $8K a year? Romney/Ryan thinks you can.”
Violet
@Baud: My friend and her father live in Texas. Didn’t Perry refuse Medicaid money or something there? I know I heard something about it.
Southern Beale
Ladies, vote with your vaginas!
Haydnseek
@mechwarrior online: Our African-American president sold us down the river? OBJECTION! Assertion made without evidence. You don’t get to make that statement without supporting it with facts. Please be specific.
Baud
@Violet:
They said they would. We’ll see if that sticks. I think they’ll cave after the election. Too much money to pass up.
kc
Saw that story in the paper this a.m., and the “Romney supporter” jumped right out at me, too. I’m fairness, maybe Ms. Carter didn’t know that Bain was the parent company of the mill owner. I live here and didn’t know about the Bain/Romney connection before this race.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Davis X. Machina:
THIS. I am fascinated by the adverts for some such investment company whereby people are carrying around “their number” and that number is always 1million plus, it is never below that. How many normal people in the US can even dream of having 1million plus stacked up for retirement? My guess would be less than the 1% we always talk about.
OzoneR
@Violet:
But that’s not what it does. Ryan gives younger generations a coupon to buy health insurance, and older people couldn’t give a fuck about the rest of us.
Remember, no one’s had it harder than them.
Haydnseek
@amk: Okay! Let’s talk about someone with a background in medicine. I know! Let’s go with Howard Dean! He’s a doctor, after all. Oh, wait. He’s a liberal that supports single payer. If you don’t like Hillary, you’ll absolutely despise Dean. Oh, well. I tried.
Jay in Oregon
@Cap’n Magic:
I volunteer for the role of Vir Cotto in that scene.
Davis X. Machina
@Litlebritdifrnt: The majority of us die flat broke, or close to it. 46% of American decedents have assets of less than $10,000
Davis X. Machina
@Haydnseek: Howard Dean did not support single payer, at least when he was running in ’04.
Linda Featheringill
@Davis X. Machina: #88
Older people also are well acquainted with poverty.
http://www.aarp.org/about-aarp/press-center/info-11-2010/AARPReportOlderAdultsHaveHighestPovertyRate.html
But does the presence or absence of money mean that if elections don’t go the way you want them to you can blame us oldsters?
mamayaga
@Violet:
Perry said that’s what he’d do, but apparently his proposed budget for the next fiscal year includes the expanded Medicaid funds, so the fix is clearly in. I expect all the blowhard Republican guvs will do something similar, not because they care about poor people dying in the street but because hospitals in their states will suffer without the additional funds. Sorta like all the posturing over the Stimulus followed a few months later with the same guvs and some Congresscreeps posing with big fake checks at the start of new projects in their states that were paid for by the Stimulus.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@John O: I’ll try again, a bit more civilly this time.
You’d best think twice about selling our nation down the river for something so cheap as proving a point.
Also, a near history lesson:
Under 8 years of our 43rd president we saw:
Tons of people, and one of our best national treasures swept away in a preventable disaster (NOLA)
Thousands of American soldiers dead for utterly no reason, or for worse, a vendetta aided by a lie.
The mass destruction of the housing market, and economic hardship that has impacted EVERY SINGLE PERSON that actually works for a living.
State sanctioned torture (TORTURE!), war crimes, and the growth of an Orwellian police state.
As for the people you wish to make this point to… Go ahead and ask them about it. The response is universally “Bush who?”
Think about it.
Linda Featheringill
@OzoneR: #98
Not true, in general.
Maybe they don’t care about you because you are singularly unlovable?
OzoneR
@Violet:
Chances are, based on my experiences, if she thinks Medicare sucks, she thinks its cause the government is involved.
JWL
“I wonder if America is stupid enough to elect these two”.
Take it from me, you’re better off wondering. Because there’s not a doubt in my mind that of course they fuckin’ well are, are you kidding me?.
OzoneR
@Linda Featheringill:
Try them, go to a senior Romney supporter, tell them Romney will take away your Medicare, and don’t tell me I didn’t warn you.
I’ve sat in enough Senior Centers and listened to the complaints of “These kids have everything, they should stop whining” from these people living off their dead husbands’ pensions and government-run healthcare to know, they do not care about me.
Davis X. Machina
@Linda Featheringill: Just indicating that you’ve got a system where prosperous, old, white (because of differentials in life expectancy) people — both have disproportionate influence, and a disproportionate tendency to belong to the GOP.
Not that there aren’t sterling counter-examples, but the shape of the actually-existing political landscape, is shaped to no small extent by those prosperous, old, white people. Their agenda becomes our agenda.
The median influencer isn’t the median voter, certainly isn’t the average citizen.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
If Obama could successful be tag as a medicare cutter do you think the GOP wouldn’t have done that by now? Honestly how do you accuse the “biggest socials nightmare since Carter” of wanting to destroy medicare? The Right is up against their own hyperbole.
Todd
@OzoneR:
I’ve been calling it The Greediest Generation for years.
The worst segment, though, is the group that got all the goodies without the hardship – too young for Korea, too old for Vietnam, they got all the goodies – education, union pensions, union benefits, and if they served, had nice quiet peacetime duty.
Waynski
@Todd: Tempting, but no.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@OzoneR:
nonsense, every grandparent I know is obsessed over their grand kids.
Citizen_X
@Steeplejack:
Gag…gtkk^%nv…sputter…argh! WHO THE FUCK WAS IN CONGRESS these last few years?
Fucking Eddie Munster motherfucker.
Josie
Some of the hateful comments towards older people in these comments would make one believe that no younger person ever voted Republican and no older person ever voted Democratic. They also would lead one to believe that the Romney/Ryan strategy of pitting age groups against each other is already a great success. Please stop with the stupid generalizations.
opie jeanne
@Linda Featheringill: Thanks. We are in our 60s, my husband is on Medicare this year, and WE VOTE.
But not for Republicans.
Honestly, when we voted last week we spent hours mulling over the many choices, looking at statements from every candidate and digging up their records when available. Out of them all we found one nearly-sane Republican candidate. Just one.
(Washington puts everyone on the primary ballot so we could see every candidate. )
Mike G
Some people would be happy living under a freeway overpass, roasting a pigeon on a metal coathanger, as long as the black/gay/Messican/librul under the next pylon had no pigeon to eat.
Imani Gandy (ABL)
@SamR: that made my head explode. jesus.
Linda Featheringill
@OzoneR: #109
Personally, I don’t bother with Romney supporters. Life is short and I don’t have time to waste any on them.
And in the senior centers, the same principle applies. I am of the opinion that my peers who are bitter and filled with self pity go to senior centers. The rest of us are living life and loving and laughing and planting seeds for the future and . . . .
Life is short. Don’t have time to waste.
mamayaga
If we oldsters are so invariably wingnutty, how come there are so many of us on this thread?
Violet
@OzoneR:
Make it personal. “Do you think young people will support your Medicare when they aren’t getting any of it themselves? They won’t continue to pay for it.” Scare ’em good. Make them worry about keeping their Medicare if Romney gets elected. Those young ones they say have it too good, play on the selfishness they say the young have. “Those selfish youngsters will never vote for you to have Medicare when they’ll never get any themselves.”
Todd
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
As a prop, perhaps. When it comes to their vision of America being run by serious sounding white men in nice suits, they’ll exert all kinds of contortions to display their loyalty to those white guys, even at the expense of those grand kids.
Shoulda heard my mom in denial on Medicare. She’s absolutely convinced that it will be there for me, and that the entire problem in health care is young bucks buying tbone steaks, and their baby mamas leeching off the medical system.
Linda Featheringill
@OzoneR: #109
Actually, if you spend a good deal of time in senior centers, you might understandably get a skewed impression of us old fogeys. I can see how that might stimulate resentment in you.
OzoneR
@Josie:
Romney/Ryan has existed for a weekend. That strategy has existed for decades, and yes it works. It works because it just takes advantage of already-existing hatred.
We’re not a country, because we hate each other. I’m a white, non-religious liberal from New York (though originally from the Midwest). Old people hate me, southerners hate me, cowboys hate me, religious people hate me.
I can either try to like them, try to make peace with them, or realize that they couldn’t give a flying fuck about me or my wanting to make their lives better and realize, we don’t belong in the same country.
I’m glad for the 40 percent who decide to vote for sanity, but they have far more pull over the other 60 than I do, and I don’t see them helping. And anyway many of those 40 percent aren’t much better, they just vote the right way. My girlfriend’s grandparents are Democrats who think all black people are criminals and on welfare.
Sparrowgal
@Southern Beale: Ouch! While I get the point, I much rather think I’d like to vote with mine in mind.
Suffern Ace
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Like most radicals, he hates old people.
Linda Featheringill
@mamayaga: #122
Good point.
OzoneR
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
their grand kids and no one else.
OzoneR
@Linda Featheringill:
and yet they make up the VAST MAJORITY of your generation. That’s why I don’t think much of you guys.
2/3 of you are jerks, the other 1/3 just stays the hell out of it.
Your brethren are ruining our country and I’m supposed to forgive them because some of you are ok?
John O
@mamayaga:
Yeah, 50% top tax rate was considered a huge win for the GOP at the time.
The rich always win for a while, forever and throughout history. And we’re here. America is “here.”
OzoneR
@Violet:
whose going to make us stop? What are we going to do, NOT pay taxes?
they know they’re taken care of, and they will be for the rest of their short lives. Everyone else can go to hell.
Any wonder why Ron Paul has such support from young people?
Imani Gandy (ABL)
@John O:
Do you have any women in your life of child-bearing age? Find one and say that to her.
NotMax
@OzoneR
What must they think of Colin Powell?
OzoneR
@NotMax:
affirmative action.
John O
@Imani Gandy (ABL):
Barely. Long story. And I get what you’re saying.
FlipYrWhig
@Todd: It’s not older people, but older Republicans — and, frankly, basically all Republicans who see things that way: “there’d be more than enough money to go around if they would just cut off the moochers and the people who just don’t want to work.”. That’s why there’s never any risk, as they see it, of people close to them getting screwed by Republican policy; and likewise why if anyone close to them gets screwed by Republican policy, it’s still the fault of “the government,” which is by definition Democrats.
Weaselone
@OzoneR:
Ryan’s plan may preserve classic Medicare for those over 55, but it certainly would not remain that way. Once Medicare is converted to voucher care for those under 55, it would be a relatively simple matter to get the votes to take it away from those over 55. It is a classic divide and conquer strategy. First use the support 55+ group to end Medicare for the rest of us, and then turn around and use the rest of us to take it from the 55+ group.
NotMax
@OzoneR
While I fully realize that trying to apply anything approaching logic or consistency to idiots (and avowed bigots) is futile, sounds as if they must then admit supporting affirmative action, as it produces non-criminal, non-welfare people.
NotMax
@OzoneR
While I fully realize that trying to apply anything approaching logic or consistency to idiots (and avowed bigots) is futile, sounds as if they must then admit supporting affirmative action, as it produces non-criminal, non-welfare people.
OzoneR
@Weaselone:
idk, I don’t think the rest of us would ever do such a thing out of spite.
dead existentialist
@mechwarrior online:
See House of Representatives.
OzoneR
@NotMax:
yeah, they don’t see it that way. If I had the guess, its because they don’t black people to NOT be non-criminal, non-welfare people.
Haydnseek
@Davis X. Machina: He didn’t support single payer in ’04, but on the May 4 ’09 Ed Show he was fine with it, describing it as a choice over private insurance plans in a possible Obamacare scenario. This happened before the eventual ACA was finalized, of course.
Maude
@NotMax:
We are talking about people who don’t connect dots.
For example: someone gets medical care because he has Medicare. That same guy will turn around and say, keep government out of my Medicare.
Todd
@Linda Featheringill:
Hey, I’m told that this is a good deal and I’ll be more free. I’m just trying to share the liberty and freedom of all my choices.
kay
@Violet:
Tell her that Romney will cut Medicaid. Tell her that Medicaid covers out of pocket costs for elderly poor people.
The Ryan Plan is slightly more complicated than that, it uses “block grants” and states’ rights language but the end result is they are going to cut the hell out of Medicaid and if she needs long term care she won’t be able to get it.
What’s interesting about the Ryan Plan is how blatantly political and partisan and vicious it is. It’s not AT ALL serious. It’s campaign-speak. Marketing.
Which tells me that all of those highly paid political professionals who lauded it like lemmings didn’t READ IT.
Violet
@OzoneR: It would happen. It would be framed in some other way, but as you point out, Ron Paul voters are against Medicare. Add in resentful almost-seniors, who most certainly will vote, and it would be gone.
Suffern Ace
@OzoneR: No. We’d means test it first, thinking that would keep the program solvent.
Suffern Ace
@kay: The truth is, after a long hospital stay and a stay in a convalescent home for a few weeks, most elderly Are Poor People.
Todd
@Violet:
Fuckin’ A. Gone, gone, gone.
mainmati
@Hunter Gathers: Pleeeeaze. Some white people notably of the right-wing, racist persuasion. A lot of other white people don’t fit that mold, which is why Obama got elected in the first lace. And, BTW, he’s half-white himself. So your comment is basically meaningless.
dww44
@4tehlulz: Is this true? Did one of the r2d2 candidates actually say this:
I’d love to have a link or video of one of them saying this. I’ve got lots of relatives who need to know this. My 92 year old Mother-in-law is in her 16th year of living in a retirement home, the last 3 years in one of their assisted living buildings. She has dementia. Not Alzheimer’s, but she’s now totally incontinent and is therefore at the top paying tier level which is about $4K a month (and we’re in the deep South).
My husband calculates she’s going to be out of money within the next 2 years. If there’s no Medicaid option at that time, we have a real problem. He’s the only one of the 3 sons with anything inreserve and then what will we do to take care of ourselves? We’re not Spring chickens either.
Violet
@kay: Thank you, Kay. Do you have any pithy sayings I could toss out that don’t sound partisan or attacking. I’m aiming for “concern troll” tone, probably. Something like “You know, [friend], you might want to check into Romney’s VP, Paul Ryan’s budget plan if you want Medicare to be available for your parent. He’s planning to cut Medicare so that it would disappear.” Or something.
I need something pithy and catchy and TRUE.
Mike in NC
@Southern Beale: South Carolina, baby!
kay
@Violet:
And because this has already come up in a conversation I had, the Romney-Ryan Plan cuts Medicaid now, as the program currently exists, NOT under the Medicaid expansion of the PPACA, because the Romney plan repeals the PPACA.
They’re going backward. Far fewer people will have health care security than do NOW under Romney-Ryan. She’ll be one of them.
Even if she loathes the health care law, and wants it repealed, she’ll get that, but she’ll also lose what she has NOW.
dww44
@Davis X. Machina: That’s why a sane and overhauled election system would put paid to that scenario. Heck, maybe we could even make it a misdemeanor NOT to vote and levy appropriate fines. You know, much like the democratic nation-state down in the Southern hemisphere. Then you’d get sane policies for the benefit of all.
Violet
@kay: When you say, “She’ll lose what she has now”, do you mean her health care or her parent’s health care? She’s covered under insurance via work.
I think she’s happy about the health care law because that was her main issue last election.
Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
@John O:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No.
People thought that when Bush came in. It didn’t work. It never does. Bush and his wrecking crew came in, fucked everything up sixty seven ways, and when people began to get unhappy about it, he and the Republicans blamed the Democrats. And a lot of people believed him. Nothing that Republicans can do will ever be enough that they can’t get a lot of people to blame the Democrats for it.
The only way to win this is to fight to make things better. Roosevelt did that and he ushered in 50 years of Democratic Congresses. People like Social Security. People like Medicare. Rmoney and Ryan will find a way to take it away, and 40% of Americans will believe them when they tell them the Democrats did it. But if Obama holds on, and we keep at least one house in Congress, then when the benefits of the health care law begin to kick in, Democrats can point to them and say, “We’re the ones who fought to bring this to you. We never got one Republican vote. Not one. Keep this in mind when you next go to vote.” A lot of people will forget this, or won’t believe it, but enough will that in 10 years or so, we might have a coalition that will be like the one Roosevelt put together. But it won’t happen if Rmoney gets in to fuck things up.
kay
@Violet:
I would just be plain. Ask what the plan is here. I’m assuming they know they’re spending down assets and headed for Medicaid.
Tell her it won’t be there.
Kids are cheap to cover under Medicaid. They’ve never been the big spenders. If states get unregulated block grants for Medicaid with hard caps they aren’t going to cut kids. They’re going to cut where the money goes.
I’m looking forward to reading the 2005 Ryan Plan on Social Security privatization.
I say “they want to put Social Security in the stock market” because people hated that idea BEFORE we found out the people who run the financial sector are completely reckless and insane with greed, so I feel it will be more relevant now :)
dead existentialist
@mamayaga: Because you are so invariably wingnutty that’s why so shaddup and go back to your nap.
Fuck. I can’t believe how seemingly intelligent (ha-ha, I misspelled that!) people are comfortable with making wild generalizations like that.
(I’ve been known to do so on occasion, but I’m not intelligent.)
kc
Interesting. Since this morning, The (Columbia, SC) State newspaper has bumped this story off the front page of its website, deleted all the comments, and disabled further comments.
Can’t help but wonder if it has anything to do with all the rabid wingnuts in the comments this a.m. accusing the paper of trying to get Nobama re-elected.
kay
@Violet:
I mean she’ll lose the ability to rely on a spend-down and then Medicaid for her parents.
The Medicaid won’t be there.
I don’t know what they plan. Sort of a triage system for long term care? I am often appointed as a guardian for “incompetents” , danger to themselves or others. They’re all in long term care, and they all get Medicaid. I guess they’re a priority under Ryan Plan? One would hope we’re not just sending them home.
OzoneR
@Suffern Ace:
and you know what I’ve heard people say? That’s because of the big government.
“Before Medicare, you just had insurance and that’s that.”
Except none of that is true, but don’t try telling them that.
Violet
@kay: Yes, they are spending down assets and heading for Medicaid. They are on the Medicaid list, or were. Not sure what the current situation is. You can’t just go get it, seniors are on a list and become eligible when a space opens up in Texas. They are on the list.
She’s complained about the whole Medicaid situation and how it “isn’t right that you have to turn over all assets to the government”. I think her parent has a very small pension or something. That would be turned over to the government if they go on Medicaid.
How can I dumb this down? “Unregulated block grants for Medicaid” is wordy and hard to understand. What pithy statement would get the point across that states won’t spend Medicaid money on seniors?
mainmati
@mechwarrior online: This is actually a fairly recent phenomenon. Until JFK, only the two Roosevelts and fat Taft of all 20th century Presidents went to Ivy League schools (both Harvard; though Woodrow Wilson was President of Princeton, he didn’t graduate from there).
Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Truman, Eisenhower, LBJ, Carter and Clinton didn’t go to Ivy League schools so you’re really talking about a GOP phenomenon until Obama.
There is a tendency to see Ivy Leagueism tendencies about Cabinet members and advisers but that’s true mainly only for economic and foreign affairs (very critical, I agree). But I would argue that it’s not the education but rather the ideological orientation that matters. (BTW, I am not an Ivy League grad.)
mainmati
@mechwarrior online: This is actually a fairly recent phenomenon. Until JFK, only the two Roosevelts and fat Taft of all 20th century Presidents went to Ivy League schools (both Harvard; though Woodrow Wilson was President of Princeton, he didn’t graduate from there).
Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Truman, Eisenhower, LBJ, Carter and Clinton didn’t go to Ivy League schools so you’re really talking about a GOP phenomenon until Obama.
There is a tendency to see Ivy Leagueism tendencies about Cabinet members and advisers but that’s true mainly only for economic and foreign affairs (very critical, I agree). But I would argue that it’s not the education but rather the ideological orientation that matters. (BTW, I am not an Ivy League grad.)
NotMax
@ Violet
[insert state name here] to seniors: What, us pay? Hurry up and die already.
Gus
Jesus, really? A country that elected George W. Bush twice? Okay once, but that was a reelection. A country in which 46% of people don’t believe humans evolved? Damn fucking skippy Americans are stupid enough to elect them. The idiot Romney supporter described in the article is pretty typical. “I’d like to vote for the guy who fucked me over.”
wrb
@mainmati:
Gonna piss off some Yale alums there
wrb
@mainmati:
Gonna piss off some Yale alums there
sydney
@OzoneR: Civil War NOW! Wait, lets try another 15 years and the oldsters will die off.
Or how about taking away your vote after age 60? 50?
“Logans Run” style…”America F-Yeah!”
Dr. Loveless
At which point I lost all sympathy for her.
dww44
@kay: I’ve been wondering the same thing about what happens to all these old people if RR2 are elected. After all, Mitt says he’s gonna repeal Obamacare first thing and then do the other stuff. And, if he’s elected that will happen, because there ain’t no way that there will be any moderation coming out of this man when and if he’s President. It’s as Grover said, we just need a President who will sign our bills;all the leadership for us is coming out of the Congress for the next 20 years.
Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)
@wrb:
I think the point was about undergrad schools. Clinton went to Georgetown for his B.A.
Cap'n Magic
@Jay in Oregon: The Shadows have indeed returned to Za’ha’dum-but its 220 years too early.
Cap'n Magic
@Imani Gandy (ABL): The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Weaselone
@OzoneR:
Oh, there would be spite, but it would not be necessary, just apathy. If the under 55 group is stuck with voucher care, then I can’t see most of them becoming too outraged when politicians spread the benefits of choice to 55+ cohort.
kimp
Short answer… YES
LanceThruster
@Kristine:
True dat as well as in this post 9/11 world (or post Cold War), GOP hawks and their chickenhawk chorus are the only thing keeping defense contractors safe from having their profits suffer budget cut battle wounds.
ruemara
@Violet: Right now, the state gets money that must be used for all who meet the criteria and need it. The state gets a big ole check, called a block grant, but under new R/R rules, it can spend it on things to bring down debts due to tax cuts. Your new Republican governor and State leg, are not going to spend it on continuing coverage of olds in homes. You’ll be screwed. Young people and healthy people will get off ok. Seniors, special needs and disability populations will wish for a quick death and their families will have to choose between supporting themselves and supporting afore mentioned relatives. You’re not turning over assets to the government. It’s giving assistance to you. For now.
Hope that’s correct and simple. I spent years broadcasting block grant allocation of HUD/CDBG (?) funds. It’s painful to see the needs but uplifting that we can help.
Ohio Mom
@Violet: I hope I’m not too late here.
You must start by agreeing with your friend, because you do agree with her. It *is* terrible that Medicaid is so stingy.
It *should* be more generous and there *should* be less red tape. It *is* awful that we make people go broke before we will help them.
It *is* a pity that the system as it is set up doesn’t allow people who have worked hard for their families all their lives to not be able to share the fruits of their labors with their children and grandchildren through providing them with an inheritiance.
Then you need to explain why it is so stingy — because we as a nation decided to make it that way! We only wanted to help the most desparate; if we helped everyone, that would be that word that starts with “soc” and ends with “lism” and gets your comment sent into moderation limbo.
At this point, your friend should be dizzy with cognitive dissonance so give her a moment to drink some water and center herself again.
After that, you can explain that electing people who are going to make Medicaid even more stingy isn’t the answer. This is one of the many areas where a lot of us aren’t all that happy with the Democratic approach but know the alternative is completely unthinkable. It’s all right to be an ambivalent Democrat.
Ohio Mom
@Violet: I hope I’m not too late here.
You must start by agreeing with your friend, because you do agree with her. It *is* terrible that Medicaid is so stingy.
It *should* be more generous and there *should* be less red tape. It *is* awful that we make people go broke before we will help them.
It *is* a pity that the system as it is set up doesn’t allow people who have worked hard for their families all their lives to not be able to share the fruits of their labors with their children and grandchildren through providing them with an inheritiance.
Then you need to explain why it is so stingy — because we as a nation decided to make it that way! We only wanted to help the most desparate; if we helped everyone, that would be that word that starts with “soc” and ends with “lism” and gets your comment sent into moderation limbo.
At this point, your friend should be dizzy with cognitive dissonance so give her a moment to drink some water and center herself again.
After that, you can explain that electing people who are going to make Medicaid even more stingy isn’t the answer. This is one of the many areas where a lot of us aren’t all that happy with the Democratic approach but know the alternative is completely unthinkable. It’s all right to be an ambivalent Democrat.
Ohio Mom
@Violet: I hope I’m not too late here.
You must start by agreeing with your friend, because you do agree with her. It *is* terrible that Medicaid is so stingy.
It *should* be more generous and there *should* be less red tape. It *is* awful that we make people go broke before we will help them.
It *is* a pity that the system as it is set up doesn’t allow people who have worked hard for their families all their lives to not be able to share the fruits of their labors with their children and grandchildren through providing them with an inheritiance.
Then you need to explain why it is so stingy — because we as a nation decided to make it that way! We only wanted to help the most desparate; if we helped everyone, that would be that word that starts with “soc” and ends with “lism” and gets your comment sent into moderation limbo.
At this point, your friend should be dizzy with cognitive dissonance so give her a moment to drink some water and center herself again.
After that, you can explain that electing people who are going to make Medicaid even more stingy isn’t the answer. This is one of the many areas where a lot of us aren’t all that happy with the Democratic approach but know the alternative is completely unthinkable. It’s all right to be an ambivalent Democrat.
Ohio Mom
@Violet: I hope I’m not too late here.
You must start by agreeing with your friend, because you do agree with her. It *is* terrible that Medicaid is so stingy.
It *should* be more generous and there *should* be less red tape. It *is* awful that we make people go broke before we will help them.
It *is* a pity that the system as it is set up doesn’t allow people who have worked hard for their families all their lives to not be able to share the fruits of their labors with their children and grandchildren through providing them with an inheritiance.
Then you need to explain why it is so stingy — because we as a nation decided to make it that way! We only wanted to help the most desparate; if we helped everyone, that would be that word that starts with “soc” and ends with “lism” and gets your comment sent into moderation limbo.
At this point, your friend should be dizzy with cognitive dissonance so give her a moment to drink some water and center herself again.
After that, you can explain that electing people who are going to make Medicaid even more stingy isn’t the answer. This is one of the many areas where a lot of us aren’t all that happy with the Democratic approach but know the alternative is completely unthinkable. It’s all right to be an ambivalent Democrat.
Ohio Mom
@Violet: I hope I’m not too late here.
You must start by agreeing with your friend, because you do agree with her. It *is* terrible that Medicaid is so stingy.
It *should* be more generous and there *should* be less red tape. It *is* awful that we make people go broke before we will help them.
It *is* a pity that the system as it is set up doesn’t allow people who have worked hard for their families all their lives to not be able to share the fruits of their labors with their children and grandchildren through providing them with an inheritiance.
Then you need to explain why it is so stingy — because we as a nation decided to make it that way! We only wanted to help the most desparate; if we helped everyone, that would be that word that starts with “soc” and ends with “lism” and gets your comment sent into moderation limbo.
At this point, your friend should be dizzy with cognitive dissonance so give her a moment to drink some water and center herself again.
After that, you can explain that electing people who are going to make Medicaid even more stingy isn’t the answer. This is one of the many areas where a lot of us aren’t all that happy with the Democratic approach but know the alternative is completely unthinkable. It’s all right to be an ambivalent Democrat.
Ohio Mom
@Violet: I hope I’m not too late here.
You must start by agreeing with your friend, because you do agree with her. It *is* terrible that Medicaid is so stingy.
It *should* be more generous and there *should* be less red tape. It *is* awful that we make people go broke before we will help them.
It *is* a pity that the system as it is set up doesn’t allow people who have worked hard for their families all their lives to not be able to share the fruits of their labors with their children and grandchildren through providing them with an inheritiance.
Then you need to explain why it is so stingy — because we as a nation decided to make it that way! We only wanted to help the most desparate; if we helped everyone, that would be that word that starts with “soc” and ends with “lism” and gets your comment sent into moderation limbo.
At this point, your friend should be dizzy with cognitive dissonance so give her a moment to drink some water and center herself again.
After that, you can explain that electing people who are going to make Medicaid even more stingy isn’t the answer. This is one of the many areas where a lot of us aren’t all that happy with the Democratic approach but know the alternative is completely unthinkable. It’s all right to be an ambivalent Democrat.
Julia Grey
She is a self-respecting white woman living in small-city South Carolina where Everyone Knows the Democrats are the BLACK Party! White people simply don’t vote for the party that’s all about Getting Stuff for shiftless brown people.
Sheesh. Simple answers, man.
Death Panel Truck
@Linda Featheringill:
Wow. Talk about your sweeping generalizations. “Of the opinion that.” Did you go to more than one senior center before making that determination?