Paul Ryan, meet Paul Ryan.
Long before he became one of the right’s most vocal critics of the idea that government spending could help boost the flagging economy, Rep. Paul Ryan offered a forceful, full-throated defense of stimulus spending — when then-President George W. Bush wanted it in 2002.
Ryan has denounced the 2009 Recovery Act signed by President Obama as “a wasteful spending spree” and “failed neo-Keynesian experiment,” and – as The Huffington Post pointed out this morning — dismissed as “sugar-high economics” the idea that government spending, through measures like payroll tax cuts and unemployment benefits, can help shore up a faltering economy.
But in 2002, when then-President Bush was seeking a roughly $120 billion package of tax cuts, tax incentives for business and unemployment benefits to jump-start the economy, Ryan offered a vigorous defense of the plan. “What we’re trying to accomplish today with the passage of this third stimulus package is to create jobs and help the unemployed,” Ryan said in video that aired today on Up w/ Chris Hayes. The remarks came during a House debate on the measure on Feb. 14, 2002.
Perhaps the two of you need to have a discussion. I’m sure Salt Lake City Olympics Chairman Mitt, Governor Mitt, Senate Candidate Mitt, GOP Presidential Hopeful Mitt, and current Mitt will all be of help in finding your way, Paul.
Baud
Chris Hayes show Qaeda jaw dropping. Hayes was shocked to learn there were anti poverty components in the Recovery Act.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
If they were to win, Romneyian would push for a massive stimulus – which would obviously include large tax breaks for the wealthy – and sign every spending bill that passed in front of their desk. And every one of my Republican FBF’s would go right along with them.
Emma
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): They have no no moral principles, no political theory, and no sense of community. ALL they want is power, any way they can get it. Those two are terrifying.
Ron
This is just one of many republican ideas that when supported by Obama, became EVUL SOSHALISM in the eyes of the GOP
MattF
It’s tempting to file this under “Multiple Personality Disorder”– but it’s really just a big potful of lies. With a dash of insuring that by election day, unemployment is still at a level that could damage Obama’s reelection chances.
General Stuck
If it’s Sunday, it’s time to get your skull fucked hard by Peggy Noonan.
There now. Aren’t you a little more informed reading that?
Cargo
Liberals always do this shit, showing clips of politicians saying things that the same guy would now call socialism or whatever. It DOESN”T MATTER what Paul Ryan said in 2002 or Mitt Romney said in 2007. THE PRESIDENT IS BLACK NOW. That’s all that matters, all anyone cares about.
Baud
@Baud:
Stupid auto correct. “Qaeda” should be “was.” Don’t ask me how.
Andrew
Which one of these guys is the Ayn Rand fan? The guy from a few years ago who believed in government intervention, or the guy from this week who doesn’t?
john personna
It comes back to this, every time:
Romney advisers confirm it: We’re running a `just trust me’ campaign
What could possibly go wrong?
Valdivia
I hope we get that video on an ad soon. Ryan defending the stimulus forcefully, a screen shot of his letters asking for Govt money to save a plant, and then railing against it all now. Total hypocrite.
Doggie D
Representative Ryan has a very trim physique, and he is nice to his mom.
Baud
@Cargo:
I agree with you. People just don’t seem to care that Republicans are hypocrites. Just look at who’s on the top of their ticket.
dr. bloor
This advice would be useful if we actually knew which states any of these Mitts were legally living in at any given time.
dr. bloor
@Doggie D: Parenthetically, has anyone in the MSM pointed out yet that when you have to trot out your mother to sell a policy initiative, the policy is by definition a MASSIVE FAIL?
Mike Lamb
To quote Homer…Simpson: Sure, everything looks bad when you remember it.
And to quote “Friday”: Why you gotta bring up old shit?
Valdivia
@dr. bloor:
Apparently they are following the script of a candidate out of Nevada who won his congressional seat by putting his mom on an as to say the Ryan plan was A-OK.
Doggie D
His mom likes his policies dr. bloor. And Paul hunts. He also has a blonde wife.
mai naem
How did Bob McDonnell win Virginia’s governorship? The guy comes across as an empty suit. Cannot wait for Martin O’Malley to run in 2016. He’s definitely one of the better elected official Obama talkers. Ted Cruz looks like an ugly queen. He could have played a character in La Cage Aux Folles.
TR
Any mention of the Guardian theory that Mitt is hiding the tax returns because they’d prove he commuted voter fraud on Hayes?
Steeplejack
@Baud:
Wow, that is some invasive autocorrect.
Uncle Cosmo
@General Stuck:
Absolutely. I’m now absolutely certain I want Nooner cast as the granny that gets dumped over the cliff. No stunt doubles allowed.
The Dangerman
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
FTFY.
A lot of businesses are sitting on a shitload of cash, just waiting for “certainty” to occur. A nice, big tax cut should do the trick.
There will be a nice boom after the election once businesses start spending that cash they’ve accumulated under Obama. Romney will want the credit, of course.
Baud
@Steeplejack:
Yeah, it absolutely Hitler.
TR
Stephanie Cutter on ABC.
arguingwithsignposts
Do not want! I didn’t even read your excerpts. Life is too short.
maya
Hypocrisy is what makes them special and unique. It’s that XXX chromosome.
HelpThe99ers
It’s not that Ryan is arguing for Keynesian policies, and it’s not that he’s arguing for the benefits of economic stimulus.
It’s that he’s arguing for a third stimulus package.
OzarkHillbilly
@General Stuck: Thanx a bunch. I just puked all over my monitor.
SFAW
OT, I guess, but if I ever read or hear “full-throated” again, it will be too soon. (With certain exceptions, of course – none of which is related to punditry.)
But @General Stuck:
What the hell is it with Nooners? Is Ryan her latest stand-in for her Reagan-obsession? Would it be irresponsible to speculate that she’s had Paulie over to her place for “nightcaps-plus”?
gbear
@mai naem:
By lying about what he’d do once he became governonr. Has a familiar ring, no?
eric
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
is this good or bad for Mccain?
SFAW
@Baud:
So, a philosophical/technical question: is it truly Godwinizing a thread if it’s done by auto-correct?
dmsilev
@eric: Everything is excellent news for John McCain.
WereBear
Heck, I’ve concluded Right Wingers joined up so they wouldn’t have to think at all! So don’t go throwing around those stinkin’ facts they hate so much.
Because shut up, that’s why!
raven
@arguingwithsignposts: She just said Ryan was in the “Belly of the Beast”.
General Stuck
Republicans are external people, meaning that presentation is more important than having internal dialogue with one’s self, to figure out what is the best achieved. And for them, the best achievement is taking and giving little in return. That is why they turn on a dime with ease, not breaking stride or even cracking a smile at the hypocrisy that oozes out of everything they present to the world, and voters.
I still remember the first day of the new congress, in the House of Reps, after democrats won back that body in 2007. Where for the past 6 years they had spent like drunken sailors and paid for none of it, doubling the national debt, from tax cuts for the wealthy, to unnecessary war in Iraq, to passing corporate welfare bills, such as a medicare drug bill for seniors.
And what did the very first floor speeches focus on in Jan 2007? From the wingnuts now in the minority. No foreplay, no self reflection, or even a shit eating grin from what they had done just yestereday in the majority under GWB.
They went straight to the dusted off playback for their many years in the House minority. Bashing Tax and Spend liberals that had just taken over, after their years of gluttony on wingnut welfare to their bidness buds, and themselves. This is who they are. No conscience, no regret, and most of all, no accountability.
harlana
@arguingwithsignposts: Yikes, is she swooning over Ryan?
honus
@mai naem: Virginia has an off year election for governor, always held the year after the presidential election. For something like the last 60 years the candidate from the opposite party of the president has won the gubernatorial election. Despite being a red state, we had two democratic governors during the Bush administration, and three in a row during Reagan-Bush.
Obama was the first democrat to carry Virginia since LBJ in 1964, by seven points, and the next year McDonnell was elected in a landslide.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
How did you get to be so witty so early?
Baud
@SFAW:
You knew it was going to be automated someday.
@SiubhanDuinne:
Reading Peggy Noonan in the morning makes me trippy. Thanks, Stuck @6.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Cargo:
This buys into their framing.
When a dog shit on the floor, your dad or grandpa would grab the dog and shove its face into the pile. “See what you’ve done!”
While this is now known to not be a good teaching technique for dogs, I recommend it highly for Republicans.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@dr. bloor:
Has any other politician drug his mother around to rallies? I’ve never heard of it before. It seems like it would make the guy look like a wuss.
amk
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Didn’t that old yeller, eternally angry guy trot out his mom in 2008 ? Fat lot of good that did for him.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@eric: Et tu Rassmun, et tu?
NonyNony
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
As I’ve gotten older I have found I don’t understand this at all – I’ve seen what dogs eat. In retrospect the dog probably just thought that dad was pointing out a tasty treat for the puppy.
See above. I’ve seen what Republicans believe. It’s very similar to the stuff that dogs like to eat.
Violet
@Doggie D:
That shirt he was wearing looked weird. Looked all European, what with the narrow sleeves and slim fit.
bemused
If Ryan had his fantasies realized to repeal ACA reversing the closing of the doughnut hole for seniors and cutting off Medicare for under 55ers, Ryan’s mother could hear some awkward comments from other seniors citizens. Maybe not from the more wealthy seniors in her senior citizen compound but at least some of them may not have enough money to help out their children if they can’t afford coupon care.
Rosita
@It was a big part of Rick Scott’s campaign for GovernorEnhanced Voting Techniques:
Violet
@bemused: I’d be willing to bet that some of those 80-ish seniors have kids who are in their 50s. I can only imagine the conversations going on there.
JGabriel
__
__
Atlas Shrugged, Paul Ryan Logrolling Edition
.
Valdivia
Not a fan of Dowd, but if there was a day to read her, today was it. Finally a source on which she can pour all her sneer on to that I can agree with.
Violet
Santorum is whining about tone:
The tone is divisive. Awww…poor widdle Ricky. Everyone is so m33n.
General Stuck
@Violet:
Hilarious
amk
@Violet: O team is like the proverbial deaf adder. The thugs and their msm shills can bitch and moan all they want.
arguingwithsignposts
That is quite possibly the quickest pivot I’ve ever read.
wrb
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Yep, they’ll just spend on military hardware, roads not rail, maybe nuclear power.
I’ve wondered about the effectiveness, if they went hard cynical in the campaign: ” if Obama is elected government will remain deadlocked and the economy will stay mired, elect us and we’ll get the economy roaring through cutting taxes, lifting regulation and massive spending on the right things.”
I think it would be very effective with many people who are in dire straights.
They appear to have trapped themselves with all the fussing over deficits, but Republicans do have a amazing tolerance for cognitive dissonance.
Villago Delenda Est
Authoritarian fuckwits will remain authoritarian fuckwits.
Whatever their leader says, right now, is the revealed truth. Never mind that five minutes ago the leader said the exact opposite.
These wretches deserve to be serfs.
jeffreyw
@arguingwithsignposts: That’s just IOKIYAR, longer. (Apologies to the Sadlys.)
wrb
@arguingwithsignposts:
I think it is in code. “Divisive” means stirring minority resentment, which will lead to them coming for your women in their bets.
Showing empathy for the justified resentments of the white race, on the other hand, couldn’t be divisive- it is almost the opposite. For only through empathy can we come together.
Violet
@wrb: Code is part of it. But it’s also Republican whining about how the Democrats are fighting back. They aren’t used to it and I get the impression they think if they whine loudly enough, the Democrats will cower.
Violet
As for Biden and the chains comment, I don’t understand why they don’t double down on it. Biden: “I said they want to put y’all in chains. Hell, yes, that’s what they want to do. They want to put African-Americans in chains. They want to chain working people so they can’t get to the polls. They want to chain Middle Class Americans to outrageous credit card interest rates. They want to chain everyone who isn’t rich and in the 1% so y’all can’t fight back. Well, America isn’t just for the rich. America is for all of us. Tell them, “Hell, no!” You will not be chained. You are free and want to remain free.”
Or something like that. Double down. Build the metaphor. Include everyone but the very rich in the “chains” concept.
wrb
@Violet:
I think you are right
ChrisB
@Baud: And now you’re on the terrorism watch list.
SFAW
Apropos of nothing in particular, except for the recent comments re: Ryan, divisivenessitudeness, and so forth:
How do you think his base will react when they discover that Ryan is a secret/closet Atheist? I expect there will be some number (probably 27%, natch) that will continue to adhere to IOKIYAR, and there will be some number (I daren’t hazard a guess) that will be unconcerned with his Atheism, but that would leave some percentage that could/would be significantly upset, perhaps enough to stay home on Election Day.
He may have been raised a “Catholic” – although I’d ask to see the long-form Baptism and Confirmation certificates – but it’s clear from his own recounting of his conversion to Randianism, plus his worshiping at the feet of St. Ayn the Godless, as well as his proselytizing to his staff (gotta read Atlas Shrugged!), plus his un-Christian Weltanschauung, that he no longer is a practicing Christian.
I think Dr. Jerome Corsi’s time might be better spent looking into this, instead of trying to prove Osamabama is a secret Mooooslim.
wrb
@Violet:
If you don’t double down you give the appearance of validity to their complaint.
SFAW
@Violet:
Excellent idea. However, I would modify the third sentence to read “They MAY NOT want to put African-Americans literally in chains. But they want to … etc. etc.”
I think that leaving your third sentence as is would end up backfiring, because that would be the only thing the media and low-information voters would focus on. Mitigate that hot-button, and they’ll focus on the meat of the statement. (Yeah, I realize there’s a reasonable likelihood they’ll still pervert what he said, but I think my suggestion will either reduce it, or at least call the majority to tell the complainers to STFU.
Roger Moore
@SFAW:
Speaking as an atheist, I’d really rather we not turn atheism into an attack against somebody’s character. If you’re going to try something like that, you’d better be very careful to make it clear that it’s his dishonesty about his beliefs that’s the question, not atheism per se. It’s kind of like the “they’re Sikhs, not Muslims” business; you don’t want to make it sound as if it’s fine to bash some religious beliefs but not others.
Ben Franklin
@Violet:
Heh. I think it was a mistake to stop calling it Kentucky Fried Chicken. As if they’ve taken the fat out of KFC.
They should emphasize the paragon of salt, sugar and fat. It would only help sales.
TS
@Valdivia:
Nice comment on Cheney – also, too
“…Cheney, hunter of small birds and old friends”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/dowd-beware-a-beautiful-calm.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share
WereBear
@Violet: Me likey!
mamayaga
@wrb: Speaking of giving the appearance of validity, I just listened to a replay of this week’s “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me” on NPR, and was quite irritated to hear them treating Biden’s “chain” metaphor as a genuine gaffe. The people who run that show are generally fairly politically astute (they have Charlie Pierce as a frequent panelist, for Pete’s sake), but they apparently are just as willing to swallow Republican-slanted C.W. as any of the corporate media. I gave up on NPR’s news shows in 2004 and stopped contributing for exactly this reason. I sent them a critical email, but doubt it will do much good…
Violet
@SFAW: I agree with your edits. I just wrote it right in the comment box and didn’t really re-read it before posting. I think your edit would clarify it.
The whole thing is a stupid non-troversy and trying to ignore it isn’t working. Stephanie Cutter claimed it was a “distraction” today. It’s not a “distraction”; it’s the truth. Own it. Clarify it. Build on it. Include everyone but rich Republicans. Find other examples of where chains or shackles have been used to describe something other than actual people as in slavery, but instead were used as a metaphor. Demand the Republicans show how they aren’t doing what you say they are. Turn it into a campaign point where people look around and say, “Hey, I am shackled to those horrible interest rates/underwater mortgages/college loan terms” whatever.
SFAW
@Roger Moore:
Roger –
Good point. As a devout atheist, I long ago came to grips with the realization that my atheism would prevent from ever becoming Preznit. (Well, my being a complete asshole might have something to do with it, also. Too.) But with Rethugs, a big part of their self-identification is their (alleged) religion, so I guess I’m suggesting pulling a Rove. (Not that Ryan is as outwardly religious as W pretended to be, etc.)
But considering that Rand occupies such a central part of his life and philosophy, and considering that she was a major-league atheist, and considering that his proposed budget and policies are about as un-Christ-ian as you can get, I have no problem with making him state where his devotion lies, and making him prove it (if he says Christ).
SFAW
@Violet:
I think you and I are in Viole(n)t agreement.
Violet
@mamayaga: And this is the perfect example of why Democrats shouldn’t run from the comment. It’s too easy to turn it into a “gaffe”. So own it. Refuse to back away from the concept. Include more people in the group of those who are chained. Ask college students if they’re “chained to their student loans”. Ask Middle Class folks about their banks’ unreasonable terms.
Get people talking about the concept, not the word “chains”. Fight back.
mamayaga
@SFAW:
I don’t see how this helps at all. Ryan is exactly like every other movement conservative — they ALL claim to be double-pure Christians, to the extent they don’t even hesitate to speak for god himself, and yet advocate policies that are in direct contradiction to almost all of Jesus’ teachings. If we haven’t been able to call them on it so far, how can we expect it to work with Ryan?
Linda Featheringill
@Violet: #62
Want chains?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXJ15rQOX6c
Violet
@Ben Franklin: Not really the same example. But emphasizing the deliciousness and pointing out that “quality ingredients make it taste good” or some such would be a similar tactic.
bemused
@Violet:
There is those conversations if they have decided not to just take the “just trust me” duo’s assurances and think for themselves.
Violet
@bemused: Most 54-or-younger folks can see the writing on the wall. They know they’ll get screwed. It’s just a question of whether or not they can get that across to mom.
arguingwithsignposts
@mamayaga: Exactly. The people in their pews will nod and say Amen, and the other folks already know better.
mamayaga
@Violet: I agree entirely, but even with the new improved Fightin’ Democrats, I’m not holding my breath.
Bruce S
Michael Grunwald also made the point in a related UP segment that Ryan actually voted for an alternative GOP stimulus that was something like $715 billion, put forward not to pass but so that some GOPers in hard-hit areas could say they voted for stimulus. The hypocrisy reeks, but it doesn’t matter nearly as much as we think it does because these guys are targeting low-information voters who want a, shall we say, “familiar” face in the White…ahem…House. I think Obama will clean these guys’ clock, at least in the electoral college. But in a less…uh…complicated country, Romney and Ryan wouldn’t get more than 25-30% of the vote. They are fraudsters, stirring a pot that contains a lot of very toxic shit.
Bruce S
Any oldster dependent on Medicare and Social Security who votes for these creeps is telling their children and grandchildren to go fuck themselves. “We’ve got ours!” The only forgiveable excuse a middle or low-income senior might have to vote for these characters is dementia.
bemused
@Violet:
It depends on if those 54 or younger folk are Paul Ryan type folks or other folks….the screwers or the screwed who are fully aware they will be screwed. The problem is the screwed crowd who are too stupid or too gullible or wannabe screwers to understand they themselves will most definitely, absolutely be screwed.
WereBear
@Bruce S: Slightly moderated: they have been lied to and thus convinced “there’s not enough to go around.” They might then respond in the panicked senior way that leads to them hoarding and stashing cash in mattresses and falling for gold coin scams.
Still not a good thing; but a more understandable one.
wrb
@Violet:
Tying it to feudalism- when white people were in economic chains- works well.
Americans fled Feudal Europe where the 1% owned everything and the common person could not get ahead no matter how hard they worked, to found the US, where everyone who worked hard had a bright future. R&R represent the dousing of that light, the end of the American Dream…”
Mark S.
@General Stuck:
That’s just sad. It’s obvious Peggy has no one who loves her enough to tell her to stop making a fool of herself.
There’s a real creepy Sunset Blvd. vibe going on here.
Redshift
@Violet: Yes, and people chained to their underwater mortgages.
Redshift
Unpossible. In every recent profile, Ryan has talked about how unhappy he was during the Bush Administration being a good little party hack and voting for all that deficit spending.
Why, oh why didn’t Ryan turn his irresistible sad-puppy face on GWB, and save himself all that heartache?
mamayaga
@wrb:
Some years ago I read a history of the Middle Ages that focused on the changes that brought about a merchant/tradesman class between the serfs and the nobles (the beginnings of the middle class), and a point was made that illuminated a lot for me: The major reason wealthy merchants wanted to climb into the nobility, no matter how rich they were, was that nobles were not taxed. The underlying theory of taxation was that the nobility owned everything, and the rest of the populace was just renting little chunks of the country from them by paying taxes. This is so different from what has been the modern consensus — that we all pay into a common pool for the good of the commonwealth — that it stuck with me. Now we seem to be coming full circle.
amk
For those whining about dems not fighting back, eat this.
Redshift
@Violet:
People in their fifties, sure, but I wouldn’t be so sure about the younger ones (at least not “most.”) Remember, there’s the other half of this con — they’ve spent decades convincing younger people that Social Security and Medicare are going “bankrupt,” and they’re not going to be there for future generations no matter what.
I think the prospects are better for most retirement-age people not being IGMFY to their younger family members and voting to defend Medicare than for expecting younger people to convince retired people.
Kane
BLITZER: President-elect Barack Obama is talking about a $750 billion economic stimulus package. He wants it to be passed as soon as possible. It’s unclear if whether it can be passed before he’s inaugurated on January 20th. What do you think about this proposal?
ROMNEY: Well, I frankly wish that the last Congress would have dealt with the stimulus issue and that the president (Bush) could sign that before leaving office. I think there is need for economic stimulus. Americans have lost about $11 trillion in net worth. That translates into about $400 billion a year less spending that they’ll be doing, and that’s net of additional government programs like Medicaid and unemployment insurance. And government can help make that up in a very difficult time. And that’s one of the reasons why I think a stimulus program is needed.
I’d move quickly. These are unusual times. But it has to be something which relieves pressure on middle-income families. I think a tax cut is necessary for them as well as for businesses that are growing. We’ll be investing in infrastructure and in energy technologies.
CNN, Jan 4, 2009
Linda Featheringill
@Violet: #81
If you can convince the white males, it won’t matter whether you can influence Mom or not. These guys have the big numbers [more of them than all old people] and they vote at least 55-45 for republicans.
GregB
@Kane:
The positive effects of stimulus are voided if implemented by someone with excess melanin.
SFAW
@mamayaga:
1) My memory may be faulty, but I don’t recall any recent candidate who so worshiped Rand. Rand is/was, in an almost literal sense, the anti-Christ – at least as far as application of theory to policy goes. (Not “antiChrist” in a religious context.) She chose to think of it as anti-Robin-Hood, but I’m guessing she was a-skeered of taking on Jeebus as an icon.
2) Keep making them play defense. The more breathing space we give them, the more opportunity they have to come back with yet-another lie which the low-info “independent” voters won’t be able to figure out is a lie.
3) Christ’s teachings were not particularly divisive, but Rand’s were. Make Ryan own their divisiveness, to distract them from their fake claims about Obama.
I’m not advocating lying about Ryan. But speculation, on the other hand … And given his voting record, flip-flopping, and lying (which is starting to seem like he’s trying to outdo Mittens) – well, is it really that much of a stretch to speculate that he doesn’t actually PRACTICE his Catholicism? The way I see it, the worst that could happen (from an electoral standpoint) is that he has a Colonel Nicholson moment, and realizes that his last 15-20 years have been misguided, to put it nicely.
karen marie
@Violet: That was my reaction at the time Biden’s “gaffe” was first reported. I’m not black but I sure as hell am enslaved by the current economic scheme.
karen marie
@SFAW:
The third sentence specifically refers to African Americans. I agree but I would drop it entirely, not modify it as you suggest. I was reading something yesterday about use of language and one of the suggestions I thought spot on was “don’t use their meme/framing.” Using “African Americans” concedes their claim — that Biden was saying that the GOP want to bring back black slavery, when anyone with an IQ above freezing knows he’s talking about the working class. I would drop that third line altogether and go with the strength — they want to complete the enslavement of the working class.
wrb
@SFAW:
He’s been protecting himself from the sort of charge you would like to make for some years now. It seems he was a full-blown Randian atheist but he’s been going to church and claiming he only follows Rand’s economic ideas.
Christians love the returned stray, he’s probably pretty safe.
gogol's wife
@Baud:
I was SO confused by that. I gave up puzzling it out after a while.
Haydnseek
@Roger Moore: Thanks, you beat me to it. The Romry voters will never know who Ayn Rand is. They will never know that Ryan once was in thrall to an atheist. Why? Because wingnut media obviously will never mention those things. Even if some accurate information leaks into their spittle-flecked hate bubble, it will be written off as librul-media propaganda. They know one thing. Blackie McMuslim is a-comin’ for their guns, their freedoms, and whatever else they can think of while trying to comment on wingnut blogs. As an atheist, I find using that liberals using that word as a weapon is really offensive. I expect that shit from wingnuts, but I like to think we’re better than that.
Haydnseek
@Roger Moore: Thanks, you beat me to it. The Romry voters will never know who Ayn Rand is. They will never know that Ryan once was in thrall to an atheist. Why? Because wingnut media obviously will never mention those things. Even if some accurate information leaks into their spittle-flecked hate bubble, it will be written off as librul-media propaganda. They know one thing. Blackie McMuslim is a-comin’ for their guns, their freedoms, and whatever else they can think of while trying to comment on wingnut blogs. As an atheist, I think that liberals using that word as a weapon is really offensive. I expect that shit from wingnuts, but I like to think we’re better than that.
Tonal Crow
@john personna:
There is only one specific on which Romney does not waver: I want my PRECIOUS and I want It NOW!
SFAW
@Haydnseek:
Which word? Catholic? Or Randian? Or atheist?
Seriously, I’m confused – I haven’t been saying that being a Catholic (or any type of Christian) is a bad thing. I’m saying that it’s hypocritical for an allegedly Christian person to worship Ayn Rand as Ryan obviously does (although he’s trying to distance himself from that, now, too). That she was (purportedly) an atheist is just a sweetener for the hypocrisy tea that Ryan drinks. But the key idea here is that her ideas were exceedingly un-Christ-ian.
So that raises the thought: is Ryan the same type of “Christian” that George W. Bush was? That is, names himself such, but is loath to follow the teachings. (Although I STILL don’t know which Christian sect W claimed to be an adherent of; at least I know Ryan says he’s Catholic.)
Yeah, OK, maybe my original comment might have been borderline-ratfucking, and some of this is inside baseball, but at some level, it’s not that different from going after Romney for being a fake Jaahhb Creator. If Randianism were not so intimately entwined in how Ryan has made his name, and is viewed as a “serious thinker,” then it would just be a sideshow. And, frankly, I don’t expect the idea to get a ton of traction. But every little bit helps.
mainmati
@Baud: Yeah, I was wondering about that. I thought you meant to write “kind of”.
Bruce S
@WereBear:
Then why no “shared sacrifice” of reduction in currrent benefits, say, for oldsters who aren’t totally impoverished. This is one of the most cynical pitches by the GOP ever.
The Big Lie, of course, is that “Medicare” is unaffordable. If anyone can point to a more cost-effective health insurance program in this country, other than the socialized VA hospitals, I would like to see it. Medicare isn’t the problem. It’s points to the solution. The problem is a bloated, out-of-control health care delivery system, pharmaceutical monopolies and private insurance companies that skim profits off the top for no added value. The notion that private insurers would provide full necessary coverage with those vouchers alone is ludicrous.
The CBO has scored Ryan’s plan as not just adding to out-of-pocket costs for seniors but as actually increasing overall costs of health care to seniors as % of GDP. If that’s fiscal conservatism, I’ll give sexy sexy Ryan the blow job Sean Hannity is too chickenshit to offer up. We need cost controls built into our health care system overall, we need to move in the direction of the Europeans who have much more control over costs and have some excellent delivery systems (mostly not “socialized medicine” incidentally). Ending Medicare is NOT a strategy for cost-cutting, it’s a strategy for making the entire system more expensive. That’s as close to a “fact” as we can get in this world. Yammering about “competition” in the field of health insurance as a strategy for getting our medical costs under control is a faith-based ideological approach for either zealots, lying punks or total idiots. There is no empirical evidence on the planet that points in that direction as solution to the very real problem of inflated medical costs.
SFAW
@Bruce S:
You mean “The left-leaning CBO, taking its direction from the
BlackWhite House …”, of course.xian
@mai naem: Ted Cruz made me throw up in my mouth with his nonstop Tea-lying.
xian
@mai naem: Ted Cruz made me throw up in my mouth with his nonstop Tea-lying.
xian
@mai naem: Ted Cruz made me throw up in my mouth a little with his nonstop Tea-lying.
Haydnseek
@SFAW: No, I find it offensive in the “Hey, they’re Sikhs, not Muslims” sense. Clear? Good.
SFAW
@Haydnseek:
Then I would say you’re misreading what I’ve written.
I could give a rat’s ass if Ryan is Catholic, Jewish, Calvinist, Mormon, Muslim, Sikh, Thug, Zoroastrian, Scientologist, or Sub-Genius – as long as he practices what his religion preaches. But when he starts practicing, extolling, and proselytizing what noted-atheist-and-generally-sociopathic-icon-for-libertarians Ayn Rand preached, and her preaching is COUNTER TO WHAT A “GOOD” CATHOLIC IS SUPPOSED TO DO (ministering to the poor/weak, etc.) then I consider him fair game for scorn.
I’m an atheist, but I don’t begrudge (or whatever) religious persons their faith. But I also do not want them attempting to convert me, nor attempting to turn the US into Gilead.
Or, in the case of Ryan, using his power to do un-Christ-like things, all in the name of someone far more anti-religious than I will ever be. (And it would not surprise me one iota if we someday learned that she had a deathbed conversion to Christianity, or maybe back to Judaism.) If he weren’t such a dickhead toward those less-well-off than he is, I wouldn’t be bringing it up. (Well, I probably would still trash him – he IS a Rethug, after all – but I wouldn’t go after his religious hypocrisy as much.)
OK, we clear now? Good.