Because Nate Cohn at TNR seems to be discussing a problem I wouldn’t imagine existed:
This week’s poll of unlikely voters made a splash, but its main finding—that Obama leads among people who say they probably won’t vote in November—is hardly surprising. After all, Republicans have demonstrated a consistent advantage among likely voters; it follows, then, that Democrats should do well among the unlikely ones. But while leading among nonvoters is never the greatest news, the poll also indicated something more troubling for Democrats: Many of these unlikely voters actually voted for Obama in 2008, but plan to stay at home in 2012….
Perhaps tellingly, 23 percent of the unlikely voters who turned out in 2008 are African Americans—more than twice as many as their share of the 2008 electorate. From a certain perspective, this isn’t surprising, since African American turnout was historically high in 2008. But Obama’s chances depend in no small measure on his ability to again generate massive African American turnout. If African American voting patterns remained at 2004 levels, half of Obama’s 7-point victory would have vanished.
Does Obama have any chance to rekindle the enthusiasm of these voters? While they seem less likely to turn out for Obama than they did four years ago, their support for Obama appears undiminished—particularly among African Americans. Eighty-three percent of unlikely African American voters approve of Obama’s performance, and they preferred Obama over Romney by a 77-6 margin.
And even though many of these voters do not currently intend to vote, there’s reason to think that the right arguments or circumstances could convince many to turn out on Election Day. Compared to other demographic groups, unlikely black voters were far more persuaded by arguments for voting. By a 50 point margin, unlikely African American voters said they were more bothered by letting others vote than the belief that their vote doesn’t matter. Whites selected discomfort with others voting over the view that their votes don’t matter by just a 6 point margin. Perhaps most significantly, 97 percent of unlikely, black Obama supporters said they would “definitely turn out” if they thought their vote “could swing a close national election to Obama.” But perhaps that’s the heart of Obama’s problem: Unlikely black voters expect Obama to win reelection by a 72-15 margin.
Obama’s 2008 coalition was bolstered by strong turnout from demographic groups that don’t traditionally participate at high rates in national politics. The recent poll of “unlikely voters” suggests that many of these voters have returned to the sidelines. But it also suggests that many are receptive to arguments for voting, perhaps especially in a close race. It’s not hard to imagine how the combination of a strong ground operation and a tight race in battleground states could help Obama compensate some of these losses, at least where it counts most.
Seriously, what am I missing here? Cohn seems to be arguing that a whole lot of African-American voters have come down with Pauline Kael Syndrome — “Nobody * I * know intends to vote for Nixon Romney.” This is either a misinterpretation of the polling statistics or the most depressing thing I’ve read in a week of depressing political news…
gnomedad
Who did they know in 2008 who intended to vote for McCain?
Hunter Gathers
Nobody who works for The New Republic could be full of shit, right?
Southern Beale
This afternoon we saw “Queen of Versailles,” a documentary about the billionaire David Siegel and his wife. At the beginning of the documentary he brags about getting George W. Bush elected (“single-handedly” no less), and the second time as well (though it was probably illegal, he said).
So, fuck you David Siegel. Wish I could feel sorry for your financial troubles but I don’t. Hope you’re enjoying the Bush Recession you helped saddle us with.
And let me say, if this is an example of the Titans of Capitalism, the plutocrats running America? We’re totally fucked.
Litlebritdifrnt
How many of those voters know that they do not have the documentation to get a voter ID and therefore realize that they will be denied the right to vote were they to show up? THAT is the question that needs to be asked.
merrinc
Good lord, there is no shortage of stupid fucking people in this country.
ASIDE TO JOHN COLE: I sent you an email with an interesting Obama’s War on Coal pic from southern WV. It contains no whining about this site, its commenters, or anything you’ve done.
jl
Hate to risk incivility, but both this TNR article, and linked one on the poll, are wastes of time. The writers either just typed them up to fill some space for an assignment on deadline, or they don’t know enough about how to compare polls taken at different times to say anything useful.
It is common knowledge that GOP voters turn out more reliably than Democratic. So no surprise that more of Obama’s voters are stating, now, that they may not vote.
Was there any comparison to a similar poll of unlikely voters taken at the same time in the 2008 election? Not that I can see. Did some of these unlikely voters say that they would vote if they saw the election were close? Yes. Should that not be a tip off to any competent reporter that appropriate comparisons need to be made between similar times points in different election cycles? I would think so, but maybe not.
Culture of Truth
I’d like to see that study done after the GOP Convention has been on tv for a week.
? Martin
Nope, it’s always been like that. You’re reading it right.
Call it the ‘last vote’ effect – the only vote that matters is the one vote that decides the election. As soon as the election looks to voters like a clear result one way or another, they feel free to do other things – not vote, vote for the Green Party, and so on.
Yet another reason why IRV and an elimination of the primary cycle would be vastly better. Because it’d be nearly impossible to properly poll the results, the act of voting carries a lot more importance. Also why parliamentary systems get better turnouts. If the president was dependent on how the house races turned out, a lot more people would vote.
jl
@Litlebritdifrnt: Good point. That would make a good article, but might take some work and thought, and might be perceived as hackishly partisan, because who are those voters who need extra checking?
So unlikely to see an informative article like that. Look for more bellywash like these two wastes of paper, electrons and time.
Ben Franklin
@jl:
Sounds like BJ
longtime lurk
I’m one of these people. Voted for Obama last time, won’t vote at all this time. I live in Texas, so my vote wouldn’t make a difference anyway, but I wouldn’t vote even if I lived in a swing state.
I know the response of practically everyone here: “Oh, so I guess you want a Republican president then??!”
No, I don’t. But I have made a personal decision not to support any candidate for any office unless they are anti War On Drugs and anti War on Terror.
Ben Franklin
@Culture of Truth:
I’d like to see that study done after the GOP Convention has been on tv for a week.
I still think the Paul Consortium being elbowed out with axe-like aplomb, are planning mischief.
My broker says popcorn futures are looking bright.
arguingwithsignposts
@longtime lurk: thanks for playing, then. hope you get to vote in your lifetime.
Yutsano
@longtime lurk: Then feel free to vote for Gary Johnson. At this point I’m tired of the righteous attitude.
lamh35
Antecdotally (and this comes from my fam in NOLA, which other than Baton Rouge is the few blue parishes in LA, so grain of salt) I had a conversation with my fam last week about my mom and her health and stuff and the cost of her meds and we got to talking about Medicaid, Medicare, Charter schools and the like and being the most political aware of my fam, I enlightened them on the perils of Ryan-Romney. One of my younger cousins did say that he thought that Obama was “gonna win anyway, so…”. Being the civic minded chick I am, I told them in no uncertain terms that he betta get his “fat ass to the polls or so help me if Obama loses, he’s gonna be feeling my size 11 feet up his ass forever”.
But this is a southern red state and I don’t expect LA to go Blue anytime soon. The big question is the one in the states where there are large enough AA populations to swing a purple state to blue, that I don’t know the answer to.
? Martin
@longtime lurk:
You do realize they have no idea why you aren’t voting? For all they know, you’re demanding more drug laws and more drone strikes.
The only way for politicians to hear you is to vote. Vote for the most anti War On Drugs and anti War on Terror candidates – both in the primary and the general.
Seth Owen
@longtime lurk: Guess you’ll never get either then, because politicians only care about what VOTERS think and you’re not one.
Seth Owen
@? Martin: Excellent point Martin. If you don’t mind I’m
Going to borrow it in all my future debates with anti-voters.
Pavonis
Back in 2008, there was a lot of talk about the “Bradley Effect” so many people thought that maybe the polls were off by quite a bit, 7% or so (conservatives were counting on it to bring them victory). Therefore, it was easy to convince oneself that McCain might actually be ahead despite the polls. But now I think many people have become complacent because, after all, America did actually elect a black man. It’s up to OFA and Obama supporters to convince people that this really is a close election and every vote matters.
BillinGlendaleCA
@arguingwithsignposts:
Well put. Magic 8-ball says doubtful.
@Yutsano: Re your comment on the the tread about Iceland. I used the term “lesbyterian” in a conversation with my step-daughter a few weeks ago. She loved the word and added it to her lexicon.
? Martin
@longtime lurk: Oh, and I should add:
Had Texas latinos voted at the same rate as whites, and those additional votes broken down Obama/McCain as the rest of the latino community, then Obama would have won Texas. The problem is that your attitude is pervasive and cancerous. Democrats in Texas have assumed that they can’t win the state, when it turns out they actually can – simply through turning out at the same rate as Republicans.
So assuming you’ll lose, you stay home and prove the point. And so does everyone else in your state. Put bluntly, you lose because you act like losers.
Brian
@longtime lurk: Riiigghhttt so don’t vote then complain about what politicians are doing…
Publius39
@longtime lurk:
So you’re basically saying that you could give a fuck less about the economic, social, and foreign implications of a Republican majority? Wow, they are planning on attacking Iran, and in your search for purity, you would allow a party to govern that would actually EXPAND what you are against. I’m quite confident in saying that you didn’t think that shit through at all.
Linda Featheringill
@lamh35:
Family in NOLA:
You might tell your family that while electoral votes actually win the election, popular vote helps the winner govern, to sell ideas as the Will of the People. And everyone can add a digit to the popular vote.
lacp
@longtime lurk: Non-voting makes a statement in a lot of countries about the lack of government legitimacy. It doesn’t in America, though – all it is seen as is apathy. Vote third party, if you can’t stomach either Rs or Ds.
the Conster
@longtime lurk:
You’re a white guy, right?
Xboxershorts
He’s laying down the talking point cover story for the coming massive disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of minority voters. Dontcha see? They weren’t likely to vote anyways….
and the fuckers get away with voter caging on a national scale…
Violet
@Pavonis: A good tactic this time, is “Republicans are doing everything they can to make sure you can’t vote. Republicans want to take away your right to vote. Are you going to let them? Or are you going to show them you have a vote and you use it?”
Frankensteinbeck
This article is ridiculous. To find a way to describe Obama as being in trouble they’ve actually had to count ONLY PEOPLE WHO WON’T VOTE. For pity’s sake.
Spatula
@longtime lurk:
How dare you exercise your right to vote or not vote as you see fit! Or something!
mamayaga
I think a better solution for those who’d like better Dem candidates is to make Dems as scared of their base as the Repubs are scared of theirs. Their base doesn’t do it by staying home — they do it by primarying the people they hate.
Violet
@Pavonis: A good tactic this time, is “Republicans are doing everything they can to make sure you can’t vote. Republicans want to take away your right to vote. Are you going to let them? Or are you going to show them you have a vote and you use it?”
Spatula
@longtime lurk:
How dare you exercise your right to vote or not vote as you see fit!
Or something!
Fuck you with rusty pitchforks! DIAF! You are a shitstain! Go away and don’t ever post here! We don’t like your type!
Asshole! Racist! Pedophile!
rikyrah
I’ve been Black all my life, and I know some of the most disappointed Black folk in Obama..
and, all of them have told me, in no uncertain terms, that they will be voting for Obama.
I don’t know who the fuck these Black folk are in this article that they say they talked to.
TheMightyTrowel
An Enlightened reminder to the politically naive from the master of cynicism Voltaire:
le mieux est l’ennemi du bien.
(The Perfect is the enemy of the good)
Hal
@longtime lurk:
So I’m guessing you’re a Ron Paul supporter then?
Spatula
@the Conster:
Racist.
Violet
@rikyrah: Out of curiosity, what is it they’re most disappointed about?
Jewish Steel
Im withholding my comment until longtime lurk suspends his/her war on reason.
pk
Yes I’m sure African Americans hear the racism directed at Obama every day since he got elected and think “Oh he has this thing sewn up”.
I’d be surprised to find an African American in this country who is politically sure of anything other than that the whites always going to fuck with them.
The Thin Black Duke
@rikyrah: These “black people” are imaginary. Bottom line, this is bullshit written by white people to other white people looking for a reason not to vote for Obama. They’re cowards who refuse to own their quiet racism and want to use African-Americans as an alibi. It’s disgraceful.
? Martin
@Frankensteinbeck: Well, no. We’re in the ‘registered voter’ vs ‘likely voter’ polling transition. In order to make that transition, one of your questions needs to be ‘do you intend to vote’ and the you measure the trends that come off of the registered pool when you take the unlikely voters out.
Basically, this article is saying that in ‘registered voter’ polling, Obama is crushing it. But when the trim it down to ‘likely voter’, things tighten up a lot. And that’s true. That’s always true for Democrats, mind you, but it’s still important to understand.
The first rule of thumb for Democrat is ‘turnout is everything’. If Democrats turn out, we win. Pretty much always. What I said above about Texas is true and pretty well documented. A Democratic turnout that matched GOP turnout would have been an Obama win. Even Texas isn’t hopeless. It’s very, very winnable. So is South Carolina. Democrats need to stop acting like these things are hopeless, because it leads to actions where it becomes hopeless. Just see longtime lurk. If we could change longtime lurks attitude and carry that across to other Dems in the state, then it becomes a blue state – just like that. We don’t need to convince a single Republican to switch votes. Think about that.
cmorenc
@longtime lurk:
You have absolutely ZERO chance of ever having the opportunity to vote for any viable candidate with these qualities if you boycott voting until one comes along. That’s because you will have abdicated your effective input to the people who don’t object to these things and vote, enough of whom will always turn out in United States Presidential elections to give legitimacy to whomever wins, most especially the sort of folks who think electing Rick Perry or Michelle Bachman or Paul Ryan is a good idea.
Boycotting voting in elections is only ever even of very modest potential effect if it’s a total sham show election, such as totalitarian countries conduct, where the incumbent regime-sponsored candidate has a 100% chance of winning.
Jewish Steel
Yes, I’m withholding my vote twice. It’s a Chicago thing.
Ben Franklin
Nothing like a gang-rape with plenty of alcohol flowing. Move the fuck on.
Mnemosyne
@mamayaga:
Republicans understand perfectly well that every conservative who stays home or casts a vote for a third party is actually adding to Obama’s vote count. Why liberals can’t get this through their heads is beyond me.
If you don’t vote, you have no say in how you are governed. I guess longtime lurk is perfectly okay with the War on Drugs and War on Terror escalating since he’s not taking any steps to try and halt them.
Mnemosyne
Also, since I’m already feeling a little ranty today:
I think a lot of white liberals took the wrong message from the Civil Rights Movement. They decided that the best way to get things done was to pressure the system from the outside. They seem to have missed all of the politicians (both Republicans and Democrats) who were applying that same pressure from the inside to influence their colleagues to get the necessary legislation passed.
Unfortunately for the rest of us, conservatives took the right message, which was that they needed to make the government impervious to outside pressure. If you have politicians who can’t be shamed into doing the right thing, it doesn’t matter how many marches or protests or sit-ins people have, because the politicians won’t budge.
Baud
@Mnemosyne:
I couldn’t agree more.
Darkrose
@rikyrah: They probably heard the cleaning lady talking about someone who goes to church with the third cousin of her sister’s hairdresser. And after all, we all know each other, so what one black person says can easily be extrapolated to us all, right?
Emerald
First time I’ve seen anything positive about the media’s desire for a close horserace.
joel hanes
@? Martin:
Texas isn’t hopeless. It’s very, very winnable. So is South Carolina. Democrats need to stop acting like these things are hopeless, because it leads to actions where it becomes hopeless
Would that you were leading the DCCC, instead of that worthless Blue Dog Steve Israel.
priscianusjr
@Publius39:
Donut
@longtime lurk:
I don’t care that you won’t vote for Obama again, but I do think you’re a WATB for staying home. Checking out of the process completely is a cop-out, not to mention chicken-shit…and childish. You should at least give a shit about local elections, which probably, at least likely, have more of a direct impact on the quakity of your day to day life.
lamh35
Uh oh for Akin!?
Growing Number Of Conservatives Call On Akin To Withdraw After ‘Legitimate Rape’ Comments
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Lots of state employees here are doing the “both sides do nothing for us so I’m not going to bother to vote” dance right now. My husband is waging a one-man campaign against it at his office, but it only goes so far….
@rikyrah:
Their taxi drivers?
Patricia Kayden
Obama needs to get some ads on Black radio/tv stations emphasizing that every vote counts and that he needs the Black vote in 2012 just like he needed it in 2008. The Republicans are doing a good job of restricting the number of Black votes through voter ID laws and other means of suppression. We don’t need to voluntarily give up our rights to vote on top of that.
Increase Mather
Unlikely black voters expect Obama to win reelection by a 72-15 margin.
So they expect Obama to win by 57 percentage points? That’s insane. Surely Romney will do better than 15% of the vote.
PeakVT
@Martin: The only way for politicians to hear you is to vote. Vote for the most anti War On Drugs and anti War on Terror candidates – both in the primary and the general.
No. The only way politicians hear voters is when voters contact their politicians, repeatedly. The only way for voters to get politicians who will listen is to vote them into office.
rikyrah
@Violet:
They’re more liberal than Obama, economically.
but, they understand what he’s been up against.
rikyrah
@The Thin Black Duke:
I feel ya on that.
in fact, one of my ‘ disappointed’ friends always points this out to me, which is why she tells me that I’m her sounding board about Obama. in her mind, don’t nobody White have any reason NOT to vote for him, if they were already a Democrat.
TexasMango
@lamh35: I don’t know why they are even worried about him losing. MO is fast becoming deep red wingnut country. This guy just said out loud what most Republicans believe: anti-choice and ignorant about science. He’s a mainstream Republican as far I’m concerned.
mclaren
It’s a misinterpretation of the polling statistics. Sure, people like me and Ta-Nehisi Coats have lost our enthusiasm for Obama…but we’re the sane knowledgeable people, a microscopic fraction of the voters.
The obots are out to lunch, completely unhinged, but there’s unhinged and then there’s batshit insane. Romnye/Ryan scare even the unhinged voters — which is to say, the vast majority of the voting public. So even though sane knowledgeable people represent a mere rounding error in the American population, Obama will still win this election by a mile.
After he wins, of course, we’ll get more militarization of everyday life, more kidnapping and assassination of U.S. citizens who’ve never even been accused of a crime, more prosecution of whistleblowers who dare to uncover government corruption, more endless unwinnable foreign wars, more military spending, more tax cuts for billionaires — all justified with the whimpering whine from Obots “What else could he do?”
Don’t worry, obots, you’re going to get four more years of Barack Cheney. And at the end of that time, this country will be a surveillance garrison state under martial law that you won’t believe. But no biggie: we’re already most of the way there, after all.
xian
@mclaren:
sure ya are, sure ya are…
/me backs away slowly
(p.s.: nice job everyone ignoring pedo-troll)
mclaren
@Mnemosyne:
Ah, the blackshirts show their true colors.
Shorter Mnemosyne: YOU ARE NOTHING, LITTLE CITIZEN! THE STATE IS ALL! CRINGE AND COWER BEFORE YOUR ETERNAL MASTERS!
In Mussolini 1920s Italy, where Mnemosyne lives, this kind of advice makes good sense. But out here on planet earth, we citizens of the United States of America have this funny idea that this country was founded on the belief that government is the servant of the people, not the master.
And out here on planet earth, when a million goddamn people turn out to shut down traffic and clog up all the roads in Washington DC you%ll see change like you won%t believe.
You think the system is impervious to change…wait till get the first nationwide general strike.
FlipYrWhig
@lamh35: A lot of avowed conservatives wanted Sarah Steelman instead of Akin. It would be like claiming the moral high ground on something Blanche Lincoln said in hopes of getting another shot for Bill Halter.
? Martin
I somewhat dispute the ‘disappointed in Obama’ thing as the explanation for not voting. I think it’s a bit broader than that from what I hear from people. They feel their vote doesn’t matter, not because they are disappointed with Obama, but because they feel government broadly is completely dysfunctional. Even with a president they support, Congress will fuck the outcomes. Or the Supreme Court will. When the chain appears to be full of weak links, why bother to strengthen only one?
Granted, this sense of hopelessness in government is precisely the outcome the GOP wants, so all I can do is point that fact out and try and get them to vote anyway.
mclaren
@? Martin:
When the government is broken, you bypass it. Mass civil disobedience on an epic scale. Shut down every airport with mass civil disobedience at the TSA checkpoints, shut down congress with sit-downs in every office hallways, sit-downs on every street leading to the capitol, sit-downs on every sidewalk, every congressman and senator’s office. Shut down the Pentagon with mass sit-downs so no one can get in or out.
And when they call out the national guard and the army to beat and tase and shoot and douse with gasoline and set on fire all the non-violent protesters?
That’s when the crunch comes. That’s when Pvt. No-name has to decide whether to shoot his mom. That’s when Sgt. John Q. Public has to tase and beat his sister. That’s when Col. Thug has to order his troops to open fire on their mothers and fathers.
If you think the American people are powerless, think again. We hold the ultimate power in the United States of America.
mclaren
@Publius39:
No, you’re the one who didn’t think that shit through at all.
Today Democrats are Republicans with a phase shift of 12 years. Every single policy over the last 30 years that crazy radical Republicans have advocated, Democrats wound up enacting 12 years later.
In 1984 Ronald Reagan tried to end welfare and the Democrats erupted in outrage. 12 years later, in 1996, Bill Clinton “ended welfare as we know it,” ensuring that hundreds of thousands of children would live cars with their homeless parents — and Democrats applauded.
In 2002 Dick Cheney set up an illegal global assassination squad to kill people without accusing ’em of a crime, and the country erupted in outrage when they heard about it. In 2012, Barack Obama routinely orders American citizens murdered without accusing ’em of a crime, and Democrats cheer.
If you want to see what policies Democrats will enact 12 years from now, look at what Republicans are advocating today. That’s what you will get if you vote for Obama in this election.
The Republicans are psychotic abusers and the Democrats are their enablers. The only way to break this destructive cycle is to stop supporting the abusers and stop supporting the enablers.
Starlit
@Mnemosyne: What you said.
The worst of it is, the people outside need the people inside, but the insider doesn’t get credit. They’re either the turncoats who sold out under pressure, or part of the problem.
karen
@longtime lurk:
Obama – war on drugs and war on terror
+women’s rights to choose, gay rights, middle class. ACA
Romney – war on drugs and terror, anti-women, anti-gay, Dominionism theocracy, Ryan Medicare plan, eventual death of poor people, no health care, killing what’s left of the middle class.
A Dem who is a pacifist and anti-war will never, EVER be elected by the rest of the country. As much as you might prefer otherwise, you can still be a Democrat if you are a hawk. You can still be a Democrat if you’re anti-drugs. You can even still be a Democrat if you’re religious. As much as you hate Conservadems or Blue Dogs, they’re often the only kind of Dem that will win in the Red States.
I’ve never understood people like you who want to send a MESSAGE to the left by not voting for someone who at least does part of what you want which ends up electing someone who does everything you hate.
It’s people like you that created the GOP class of 2010. And it is people like you that will create the GOP administration, only crazier than the Bush Administration with a stacked Supreme Court. Voting Act and Civil Rights Act? Well if you’re a white christian male, you’ll still have that right. But those two acts are on the kill list. Along with schools teaching critical thinking.
We already have things rigged out of our favor with voter suppression and broken machines and making it as hard as possible for Dems to vote. You’re just the cherry on the sundae, aren’t you.
I don’t love the wars. I don’t love the drones. But they’ll be there no matter who the President is and at least with Obama, my own country won’t become a theocracy.
I’ve reached a point where what happens in my own country means enough to me that I have to be pragmatic. When I read GG throwing out the words “Obama murders brown people in other countries” I get the feeling that GG and those like him don’t care about the “brown people” or other minorities or poor people or disabled people in THIS COUNTRY.
Sorry, it’s reached that point to me. Because of people like you, we’ll be getting more Todd Akins and Michelle Bachmans. We’ll have Romney as King with Sheldon Adler pulling the strings and if you think we murder people now, it will be tenfold with Romney.
Enjoy it.
karen
@mclaren:
You prefer R Money instead?
Yutsano
@karen: Of course she does. Then after he ruins the country progressive nirvana will flower across the barren landscape. Which of course has happened in history no time ever. Except this time they’re gonna CLAP LOUDER DAMMIT!!
Bruce S
“Perhaps tellingly, 23 percent of the unlikely voters who turned out in 2008 are African Americans—more than twice as many as their share of the 2008 electorate.”
I don’t think that’s a valid use of statistics. Seems like sleight of hand, aligning two different categories that don’t have any necessary connection numerically.
While I have lots of criticisms of the Obama administration – mostly around handling of the foreclosure crisis and some of the deficit rhetoric – I’m more disappointed in his supporters than I am in him. We didn’t create political space – but expected him to magically deal with a level of crisis that he couldn’t have anticipated when he began campaigning, and while he was facing a steamroller of bullshit, obstruction and mendacity from his right (including many Blue Dog Dems.) I can Monday morning quarterback a lot of the White House strategy from my armchair, but the reality is that the wingnuts reacted to his presidency with more energy and, frankly, strategic cunning than Obama’s own grassroots movement that had helped him gain office. I think we failed him at least as much as he has failed to deliver on some of the hoped for change.
I had – perhaps naively – anticipated a new wave of social activism and grassroots political energy in the wake of Obama’s election, but I didn’t expect almost all of it to come from crazy old white people driven by “cultural resentment” and directed by Koch Inc, et. al.
karen
@Yutsano:
Women are already dying in this country because they’re running down to Mexico to get contraception and abortions that may not be safe. Women who have cancer and are pregnant will die because her life means nothing so she won’t get any chemo.
How interesting. War is horrible for her, along with the other GG and FDL acolytes. But she cares nothing about the women who are losing their rights rapidly.
I’d rather have Barack Cheney than Mitt Sheldon Santorum.
mclaren
@karen:
A perfect example of learned helplessness.
Obama + 12 more years of Democrats enacting Republican policy = R Money.
Stop supporting the Democratic wife who makes excuses when the abusive Republican husband beats you with a baseball bat. Leave the abusive home.
N*O*W.
karen
@mclaren:
It’s not gonna happen PUMA (and I don’t mean it as an insult, I know you’re proud to be one). It’s not gonna happen. Maybe you should create a Dem Tea Party to have a Dem who is pure enough for you. Kucinich never won in Dem Primaries. And you need the rest of the country. When I’m homeless because the funding for my tax subsidized (I get 1/3 of rent off) apartment won’t be there anymore and the disabled housing that I’ve been on the waiting list for four years for won’t be funded anymore, I’ll be sure to wave at you from the street ok?
scav
mclaren, slit your wrists NOW.
mclaren
@karen:
Shorter Karen: Whine whine whine whimper whimper whimper, change is impossible, we’re serfs, we’re slaves, nothing can get better, we’re all helpless forever.
Seriously, Karen. WTF is wrong with you?
karen
@scav:
I never said that to her so I resent that.
karen
@mclaren:
I’m a realist. Pity you’re not.
karen
@mclaren:
It accidentally double posted.
But tell me Mclaren. What makes a Democrat for you? Give me your list for the purist Democrat.
mclaren
@scav:
Spoken like a true obot — your only solution to the problems you face is suicide.
The rest of us prefer to face our problems and solve ’em, if necessary, by changing the world.
We now return you to the regularly scheduled infantile whimpering and groveling of the nothing-can-be-done obots.
scav
@karen: I’m bored with it’s pretending to be anything resembling a human or a woman. I fail to see how that involves anyone but it.
scav
@mclaren: No, you’re insisting on taking down the entire county because you can’t get your fucking magical prince charming.
mclaren
@scav:
Yes! Sounds like a plan.
If our erstwhile “rulers” refuse to permit the rule of law…take down the entire country. Shut it down, shut it all down with mass nonviolent general strikes.
If our erstwhile “masters” in Washington refuse to end the constant unwinnable foreign wars…take down the entire country. Shut it down, shut it all down with mass nonviolent general strikes.
If our so-called “leaders” refuse to return usury laws and refuse to put the financial crime lords in prison and refuse to end the War on Brown People (AKA War On Drugs/War On Terror)…take down the entire country. Shut it down, shut it all down with mass nonviolent general strikes.
Shut it down.
Shut it all down.
In the immortal words of e. e. cummings: “There is some shit I will not eat.” And voting for a guy who orders the murder of 17-year-old girls without even accusing ’em of a crime while he signs off a commission that recommends slashing social security and medicare in order to fund more illegal wars and more tax cuts for billionaires is exactly the kind of shit I will not eat.
scav
@mclaren: On a day where they’re talking about legitimate rape, when they are cutting as much medical care to women as they can manage, are attempting to cut programs for the poor, you are willing to sacrifice how many lives on your alter of purer than thou whatever it is. Your inability to see the difference between the options only spells out that you are as willfully and maliciously blind than the teatards and as indifferent to actual people’s concrete lives as they are.
karen
@scav:
She prefers to hold the rest of the country hostage. I’m not whining. I’m not looking for my Prince Charming and I sure as hell am not an Obot. She still hasn’t told me what makes a perfect Democrat.
NR
@karen: At this point, I don’t think I even buy the “Obama is the lesser of two evils” argument anymore. I doubt that Romney would be able to do as much damage. He’s nowhere near as slick a liar as Obama, for one thing. And he doesn’t have the same ability to divide the left and co-opt a big chunk of them into supporting conservative, Republican policies. If Romney gets in and pushes cuts in Social Security and Medicare as part of a “Grand Bargain,” the left will fight him. If Obama does the same–and he will, if he wins re-election–lots of people here will support him every step of the way.
So no, you’re not going to be able to use the specter of Evil Bad Romney to get me to vote for the slightly nicer of the two right-wingers running for President.