So the right-center establishment consensus on Ryan is that “hey, you might not like the details, but at LEAST HE HAS A PLAN”. Remember the last time we were told that there was a big threat and that we should support an ill-planned audacious role of the dice to deal with it?
With Iraq, we were told that there was a great national debate about taking the country to war or some bullshit like that. We’re being told that now about vouchercare. Greg Sargent absolutely nails it:
Ever since Mitt Romney picked Paul Ryan, it’s been widely claimed that this ensures a “great debate” pitting two starkly different ideological visions over the future against one another. But it’s now clear that the GOP ticket doesn’t want a great debate at all. Their entire strategy is designed to obscure the true ideological differences between both sides.
[….]How on earth is this a great debate? It’s actually an effort to avoid one. Anyone who continues to grant Romney and Ryan the presumption of being serious about engaging in a great clash of visions is only helping them avoid accountability for the true nature of their actual vision.
I still think Ryan was a bad pick because any discussion of vouchercare — no matter how inane and propagandist — is likely to help Democrats, especially when the other option is talking about the economy. An “honest debate” would make Ryan’s policies even more politically toxic. But there will be none, of course, and Republicans counted on that with this the same as they counted on that with Iraq and all the others.
Steve
I almost crack up laughing when they say “What’s Obama’s plan to save Medicare?” Uh, guys, Obama does in fact have a plan. It’s called the Affordable Care Act, and it’s already the law of the land. The fact that you go around demagoguing it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist!
Scott
And the media, as usual, is complicit in the whole thing, by refusing to point out the obvious flaws in the Republican plan.
MattF
Who actually says, these days, that Ryan has a plan? The Villagers all agree that the underclasses need to suffer, and sooner rather than later– but there’s a grudging awareness that Ryan’s ‘plan’ is simply nonsense. And, worse, Ryan actively worked to torpedo Simpson-Bowles.
dmsilev
Speaking of great debates, wow:
And let’s emphasize that this is from GOP house pollster Rasmussen.
jwb
@dmsilev: Well, yes, of course it’s Rasmussen, who, if you believe his polls are driven by political bias, in this case presumably wants to show things are as bad as possible for Akin in order to force him out.
dmsilev
@jwb: Fair point. Of course, if Akin stays the course, polls like this could end up being a self-fufilling prophecy.
So sad.
JCT
Whoa, Dougj — GREAT song from that album. Holy crap.
Ryan’s “plan” is to bat those baby blues and say Obama is a big blah meanie. All the way to Nov.
Some Loser
Ryan is just as fake as Romney. I wonder who can flip and flop faster: Romney or Ryan? Doesn’t matter I hope they burn in hell for their treachery. America, for all of fault, don’t deserve this. Couldn’t the GOP have wrangled some better liars and cheats? That last one, Dubya, was decent enough.
Steve
@dmsilev: That’s nice to see. I have friends from Missouri who are among the wingnuttiest of the wingnutty. I’m confident they never considered changing their vote for even a moment. It’s nice to think that they may not be representative!
Cacti
There will be 3 POTUS debates and 1 VPOTUS. I look forward to the second one especially. Biden won’t have to pull his punches to avoid “beating up on a girl” this time.
This will be the time for O’Biden to make R/R defend or disavow their lunacy.
jwb
@dmsilev: I think the polls are headed in this direction (Rasmussen may even have simply gone honest on it if there was no need for the thumb), but it will still require McCaskill to run an effective campaign, and so far I’ve seen little evidence that she has that capability. I’m not even talking about the blue dog thing, which is irritating but not fatal; it might even be necessary. I’m talking about the basic ability to make political points and come across as an effective politician.
Omnes Omnibus
Two Brilliant Mistake reference in as many days? Or did the Bobo discussion put it in your mind?
@MattF: I really have never understood the obsession with making some people suffer. Why not work to ameliorate suffering?
amk
@dmsilev:
Why ? It’s good news for
mccaindems.cscheer
Um, the entire liberal establishment rolled over on Iraq like a labrador wanting its belly scratched, THAT’s why there was no great debate.
WereBear
I love the fact that it seems the bubbling pot of Teabagger resentment is actually scorching Mitt’s mitts, so to speak.
They don’t want to do dog whistles and code words any more. They want to let America know exactly what they stand for, and exactly what their dreams are, and exactly what this country is going to look like when they get put in charge!
And I say, let them.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus:
But then how do you feel above your moral inferiors? We are talking about rather delicate feelings of the upper crust here after all.
jwb
@Some Loser: Ryan is, however, a much better politician, and that extends beyond his bright blue eyes that make pundits like Brooks see starbursts. Romney is a horrible politician; Ryan is not. And we’d all be wise not to ignore the difference.
Alex S.
Why did they pick Ryan if they don’t want this debate? They could have taken some broad-shoulders-plains-guy like John Thune. The simplest answer is that they didn’t realize how unpopular Ryan’s views were when they chose him…
hep kitty
Plan? What plan? He says he hasn’t “run the numbers”
This guy has done nothing but dance around his record.
So, just say you have a plan and it’s all good, it’s IOKIYAR.
Steeplejack
__
But there’s not even a plan there! It’s more like a skeletal outline for a PowerPoint presentation with place-markers to drop in the substance later–which will never come.
Krugman, “What’s in the Ryan Plan?”:
Yutsano
@hep kitty: But it’s on paper, according to BoBo. ON. PAPER! What the hell have you got silly libs?
ExurbanMom
Next line of the song is so appropriate:
Now I try hard not to become hysterical/
But I’m not sure if I’m laughing or crying.
Because when I read this crazy shit, that’s certainly how I feel…
Brachiator
Does it really matter? Is there such a thing as a good Republican VP pick?
McCain had a secret plan for dealing with Iraq. Romney has a secret plan, in the same vault with his tax returns, for dealing with the economy, including Social Security and Medicare. And to the extent that Romney has ever talked about Medicare, he has backed Ryan’s proposals.
So while Ryan’s selection may put the issue into sharper focus, it’s not as though people don’t know where the Republicans stand on this, unless they want to be willfully ignorant.
jwb
@Alex S.: No, I think they knew perfectly well that his views were unpopular. I think they just think that they can lie about it through the election, the media won’t call them on it, and then after the election they can turn around, enact Ryan’s plan and say “everybody knew what we were going to do.” At this point, the media seems unsure whether they will call them on it, and I’m unsure whether Obama has enough money in the bank to do it for them.
Xecky Gilchrist
“hey, you might not like the details, but at LEAST HE HAS A PLAN”.
“Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.”
— Walter Sobchak
amk
Muhlenberg Poll in Pennsylvania
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@dmsilev:
The GOP wants Akins to drop.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Alex S.:
Wasn’t Ryan one of the GOP leading lights that was supposed to school Obama in Baltimore for being uppity in 2009 and ended up making a fool of himself?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/29/AR2010012902401.html
Linda Featheringill
@dmsilev:
Rassmussen in Misery:
Ahhhh. How soothing. Just keep it up!
joel hanes
I remember
I have a plan for Peace With Honor[TM}: a peace plan which must remain secret until after I am elected President — R.M. Nixon (paraphrased)
The secret ingredient was bombs. Lots of bombs.
roc
I think the most disingenuous part of all this talk about Ryan is conceding to call his hand-waving *a plan*. It is, at best, vague goals and ambitions. “Seriousness” is an evaluation of how well specifics have been considered in context of reality. But without specifics *you simply do not have a plan* and seriousness is right out.
Ryan’s nonsense is akin to my saying “By 2025 my earnings will have gone from $50k to $150k and my spending from $30k to $15k. So if I cut spending on the kids by $200/mo I can start giving $250/mo to my rich cousin and we’ll still have a surplus of well over $100k” Who in their right mind would call that “a plan”?
The offered specifics are *laughably* insignificant compared to the goals and ambitions. And taken on their own, they’re not even a net step in the indicated direction!
That is not a plan, let alone a serious one.
Maude
When I hear pundits or reporters talk about horse race, their voices change. They get all tingly.
Repub want to lay down the law, not debate with the less thans.
Sad_Dem
The Republicans may refer to Reagan all the time, but why no love for Richard Nixon, who got elected on “I have a plan to get us out of Vietnam. I can’t tell you what it is, but if you elect me I’ll carry it out.” Let me repeat the “he got elected” part.
Rafer Janders
You know who else had a plan…?
Rafer Janders
Compared to Ryan, the underpants gnomes had a plan.
Valdivia
I am very glad you frontpaged this Doug I still think if more pundits saw this as the true frame of what is going on Romney would get called out for lying more often. But I am dreaming I guess.
Haydnseek
At least there’s a plan
But what horrors does it bring?
Don’t ask, just trust us
dance around in your bones
But but but……….Ryan has a Plan!
And it’s written on paper !
dance around in your bones
But but but……….Ryan has a Plan!
And it’s written on paper !
dance around in your bones
But but but……….Ryan has a Plan!
And it’s written on paper !
dance around in your bones
But but but……….Ryan has a Plan!
And it’s written on paper !
dance around in your bones
But but but……….Ryan has a Plan!
And it’s written on paper !
dance around in your bones
But but but……….Ryan has a Plan!
And it’s written on paper !
dance around in your bones
WTF, tried to submit a comment 3 times (not all at the same time) and I just get ‘server timed out’
Fuck it, the comment wasn’t that great anyway. Y’all are spared my pithy yet so incredibly insightful remarks.
Ha.
El Cid
How would people look at it if NASA’s “plan” for getting Curiosity to Mars and landing it was as shitty, vacuous, contradictory, and dishonest as Ryan’s so-called “plan”?
If NASA budgeted fuel in terms of “somehow collect more fuel from somewhere as it gets close to Mars”, or projected landing deceleration by “have new computer programs which somehow make it slow down the descent”, or entire chapters containing nothing but declarations on how we have to be bold.
And then whatever numbers NASA did include meant the opposite of what they were supposed to describe, like, its total cost when added up separately even as written added up to 10 times the amount that the document’s introduction said was the total, what?
“It’s a serious plan?”
“At least NASA is bold and daring and addressing the topic of getting a rover to Mars seriously?”
dance around in your bones
Oh My Fucking Spaghetti Monster.
I swear I did NOT touch the Submit button more than once with my noodley appendage…..I just kept getting a ‘time-out’ from the server.
Not that my comment was very interesting or anything.
Bug! Bug! Bug!
dance around in your bones
DougJ, could you please delete my extraneous remarks so I don’t look like such an idiota ?
Gracias, Danke velle, Tasha kor and all that thank you stuff.
dance around in your bones
Ya know what? Thanks fer nuttin.
I know, MY fault? I swear to gawd this multiple posting thing has become MUCH more prevalent since the last ‘site upgrade’.
This is NOT snark.
ETA: P.S. – I love you.
mclaren
Fixed that for you.
We really ought to be clear about what Republicans want in 2012. They don’t want “smaller government” or “deficit reduction” or any of those euphemisms or weasel words.
In 2012, the Republican platform is to kill American children and starve old people to death in order to get money to fund the murder of women and children in third world countries.
The Republican platform in 2012 is essentially the same as that of Reinhard Heydrich in occupied France in 1942, except that the Republicans want to torture and starve and enslave and murder Americans rather than Jews.