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You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Fables Of The Reconstruction / Whatever They Say, Do The Opposite

Whatever They Say, Do The Opposite

by Zandar|  September 5, 20121:49 pm| 132 Comments

This post is in: Fables Of The Reconstruction, Getting The Band Back Together, Vote Like Your Country Depends On It, #notintendedtobeafactualstatement, Blatant Liars and the Lies They Tell, Bring On The Meteor, I Read These Morons So You Don't Have To, Our Failed Political Establishment, Somewhere a Village is Missing its Idiot

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What?  You didn’t think you were going to get through the DNC without unsolicited advice for President Obama from The Centrist Concern Troll Twins in the Wall Street Journal, did you?  Oh, you silly dears.  Roll the tape, Claude!

What voters are looking for—and particularly what swing voters, independents, and disillusioned Obama voters are looking for—is a new direction for America based on fiscal discipline, a balanced budget, and economic growth and leadership.

More than anyone else in this race, Paul Ryan has spoken of the need for fiscal discipline and economic growth—two themes that have been largely absent from the Obama-Biden campaign—which explains a large part of the Ryan-inspired Romney bump.

That bump is like 0.75 points, but who cares.  Dorka Schoen and Give ‘Em Caddell need not your facts.  Centrist Daleks will Tri-ang-u-laaaaate!  And hey, Paul Ryan is a Centrist too!  You should listen to his Very Serious Centrist Positions on tesseract marathon running and the joys of children conceived through coercion and force.

For his part, President Obama needs to change direction—immediately and decisively. His campaign strategy has been to divide the country on the basis of class, demonize the wealthy, call for higher taxes and unceasingly attack Mr. Romney. Yet poll after poll has shown that while voters embrace the idea of higher taxes on the rich, it does not translate into votes.

In 2008, Mr. Obama promised to help unite America in a “post-partisan” Washington. But the 2012 campaign has been one of the most negative in memory. What he needs to do is acknowledge that he’s made mistakes and that he wants to pursue a substantive approach to governance. Put another way, he needs to bring back “hope and change” and abandon his divide-and-conquer strategy.

Should he do this before or after he announces he’s not running in November because it’s really tragically unfair of him to have broken such a historic streak of white men running the place, you know.  It’s the right thing to do.

It has been said before, but only because it’s so true: Mr. Obama should follow the lead of President Bill Clinton, who emphasized in both his terms in office the need for unity and consensus to achieve fiscal restraint. Inviting Mr. Clinton to speak at the convention Wednesday night is a sure sign that the Obama campaign understands the need to move to the center, if not in substance then in style.

Yet nothing would appeal to independents and swing voters more than if the president were to embrace the findings of the 2010 Simpson-Bowles deficit-reduction commission and make it clear that he too has a plan to revitalize the U.S. economy, reduce the deficit, reform entitlements and spur economic growth through a fairer and leaner tax system.

So President Obama has the unique opportunity to be the adult in the room by handing control of the country over to the nice folks who aren’t all that sure about evolution because the open-minded scientist must question the theory, but they believe tax cuts magically create additional tax revenues because rich people will spring forth from the nothingness like Orks from Warhammer 40K (and reach a collective critical mass of entrepreneurs, a WAAAAGH! of small business owners who will run around franchising at everything, paint their businesses red because they’ll create jobs faster, and leave nothing but career opportunities in their wake of mass construction.  Sure).

Yeah, I’ll buy that.  President Obama should totally listen to these guys.  (Also, Centrist Daleks versus Small Business Orks.  Somebody make that happen.)

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Reader Interactions

132Comments

  1. 1.

    Zifnab

    September 5, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Man, you didn’t fool around with the sub tags, did you?

  2. 2.

    Zandar

    September 5, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    I love em.

  3. 3.

    Cassidy

    September 5, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    like Orks from Warhammer 40K (and reach a collective critical mass of entrepreneurs, a WAAAAGH!

    I’m an Evil Sunz kind of guy myself. Thanks for the image.

  4. 4.

    Suffern ACE

    September 5, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    The fact that Obama’s team has never found a paying gig for these two makes it easier to support him, not less.

  5. 5.

    agorabum

    September 5, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    So he should be like clinton and raise taxes on the rich to help fix the budget ?
    but wait, they said not to do that…does not compute…
    I also remember all that unity that led to the shutdown of the federal government under clinton. And then his impeachment by the right. Ah, unity…

  6. 6.

    Urza

    September 5, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    bonus points for using a WAAAAGH to explain politics

  7. 7.

    Suffern ACE

    September 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Just wondering. Did Schoen list his party affiliation as “Americans Elect?” Or is that grift over.

  8. 8.

    jl

    September 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    OMG, Obama has been attacking that poor Mr. Romney in this campaign? How divisive of him. I mean, Bill Clinton never did that, did he?

    Are these the clowns who suggested Obama step down and not run? Why don’t they rewrite that column again? Would mean higher return on investment for them on their WSJ work.

  9. 9.

    celticdragonchick

    September 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    because rich people will spring forth from the nothingness like Orks from Warhammer 40K (and reach a collective critical mass of entrepreneurs, a WAAAAGH! of small business owners who will run around franchising at everything, paint their businesses red because they’ll create jobs faster, and leave nothing but career opportunities in their wake of mass construction. Sure).

    Painting their businesses red becaue “red onez go fasta!” is freaking awesome.

    However…

    Rich citizens who consort with xenos scum like Orks need a little visit from the Ordo Heriticus (or the FDIC in our case). Unauthorized contact with xenos is a crime to his most Holy Majesty The Emperor and the Inquisition will castigate offenders most assuredly.

    Dark Angels and Imperial Guard 40K player here :)

  10. 10.

    Yutsano

    September 5, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    @Zandar: Daleks in three rounds, no question. Davros didn’t create just any life killing machines ya know.

  11. 11.

    Warren Terra

    September 5, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Did they really suggest that Obama needs to be more serious about the deficit like Paul Ryan is, and that rather than raie taxes on rich folks he needs to emulate Bill Clinton?

    This is just ridiculous. No facts matter, nor does arithmetic. What we first saw with Reagan has spread: every political figure is not who they are, the sum of their actions and proposals: they’re who they can be asserted to be, when convenient. Thus, Reagan was a government-shrinking tough guy who’d never negotiate with terrorists, Bill Clinton was a bipartisan teddy bear who’d never raise taxes on rich folks, and Paul Ryan is Serious About The Deficit.

    I suppose that if you only ever read their approved sources of information, you’d come to believe this load of horsepucky.

  12. 12.

    Chyron HR

    September 5, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Mr. Obama should follow the lead of President Bill Clinton

    “President Bill Clinton” and “Mr. Obama”? I can’t imagine why the author refered to these two accomplished men with such varying degrees of respectfulness.

  13. 13.

    celticdragonchick

    September 5, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    @Cassidy:

    I’m an Evil Sunz kind of guy myself. Thanks for the image.

    Speed Freaks die under the treads of our tanks, and big guns never tire.

    ;)

  14. 14.

    Chris

    September 5, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Yet poll after poll has shown that while voters embrace the idea of higher taxes on the rich, it does not translate into votes.

    In fact it translated to a seven point margin in the votes in 2008, and I suspect it’ll again translate to an Obama victory in 2012. But, you know, details.

    In 2008, Mr. Obama promised to help unite America in a “post-partisan” Washington. But the 2012 campaign has been one of the most negative in memory.

    Obama extended a hand to the other party, implemented policies that the other party had been calling for for years, and they reacted by slapping the hand away, calling him a radical, bawling that he wasn’t giving them enough, entrenching themselves behind “I hope he fails” and taking a vow that even if they were offered such a ludicrously one-sided budget proposal as “80% spending cuts, 20% tax cuts,” or even more, they still wouldn’t vote to raise taxes. This against a backdrops of conspiracy-mongering about death panels, birth certificate and sinister foreign allegiances.

    After four years of putting up with that shit, Obama’s actually running a campaign that responds in kind, and the Goopers are now losing their shit because “Ma! The mean kid I keep pushing into the lockers is hitting back!” – and worse, because poll after poll shows that it’s working.

  15. 15.

    jl

    September 5, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    @agorabum:

    ” So he should be like clinton and raise taxes on the rich to help fix the budget ? ”

    Good point. Maybe these two are talking about a different Bill Clinton.

  16. 16.

    Jim C

    September 5, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    @Zifnab: He left out Clown Shoes.

  17. 17.

    Suffern ACE

    September 5, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Maybe they should call on Romney to endorse the B-S Plan. Ryan has rejected it, but so what?

  18. 18.

    Ash Can

    September 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    It’s all Obama’s fault that the Republicans’ number-one priority is to do whatever it takes to make him a one-term president. And every independent/swing voter’s life would be complete if the federal government would just stop spending so much money.

    Lucky for these guys that outfits such as the Wall Street Journal exist, or they’d have to get real jobs, or be relegated to sleeping on park benches and spend their days loudly cussing out the imaginary people surrounding them.

  19. 19.

    Brachiator

    September 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    It has been said before, but only because it’s so true: Mr. Obama should follow the lead of President Bill Clinton, who emphasized in both his terms in office the need for unity and consensus to achieve fiscal restraint.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Oh, God, my sides hurt. I remember all the whining by GOP goons that Clinton was a bad, bad man who had disgraced the office and had to be removed over his sex life.

    I don’t remember any of that “unity” shit.

    @Chyron HR:

    “President Bill Clinton” and “Mr. Obama”? I can’t imagine why the author refered to these two accomplished men with such varying degrees of respectfulness.

    Good catch.

  20. 20.

    Chris

    September 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    @Warren Terra:

    Bill Clinton was a bipartisan teddy bear who’d never raise taxes on rich folks

    One of the most hilarious things about their “Obama Most ZOMG Extreme Commuslimunnist Liberal Fascist EVAR” things is the way so many of them have retconned Clinton into this lovable icon of reasonableness and moderation. In direct contrast to what those same people were saying the 1990s when they were screaming themselves blue in the face saying the exact same things about Bill that they now are about Obama.

    One wonders if Obama will be treated with the same nostalgia in fifteen years or so.

  21. 21.

    Steve

    September 5, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    I’m reminded of Sully’s insistence that what Obama REALLY needs to do to put himself over the top is to go hog-wild embracing Bowles-Simpson. I just find it so cute how he imagines that there are millions and millions of voters out there whose preferences correspond with his own eclectic ones.

    Objectively, Obama’s plan to address the deficit is already a million times more serious than anything Romney/Ryan are advancing. The fact that the other guys propose a magic asterisk doesn’t mean you have to swear a vow of austerity in order to keep up.

  22. 22.

    Ash Can

    September 5, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    And PS: This

    Centrist Daleks will Tri-ang-u-laaaaate!

    is awesome.

  23. 23.

    jl

    September 5, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    I wonder if the Bill Clinton, whoever that is, speaking tonight will follow their advice?

    Maybe they are writing about some fantasy political league Bill Clinton, who lost elections.

    Anyone know who is the virtual Bill Clinton these clowns are talking about?

    Edit: Sorry, I forgot about the Bill Clinton bipartisan consensus tax hike that got through Congress. Sorry. My bad.

  24. 24.

    BGinCHI

    September 5, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Status quo dicks are idiots.

    No film at 11.

  25. 25.

    Face

    September 5, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    which explains a large part of the Ryan-inspired Romney bump.

    LOLWUT?

    I give this eleventeen pinocchios.

  26. 26.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    September 5, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Oh noes, Mrs. Obama and friends have revealed Emperor Romney has no clothes. Commence Operation Centrist Obfuscation!

  27. 27.

    Humanities Grad

    September 5, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    In the grim darkness of the convention center, there is only war….

    Or something like that.

  28. 28.

    scav

    September 5, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    @Brachiator: I’m still working on the Clinton as Savior thing too. Hillary for VP! was the last round. Although I can see why they might consider his sdmin the good ol’ days by now. For one thing, they weren’t running scared from their own base.

  29. 29.

    MikeJ

    September 5, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    @Chris:

    One wonders if Obama will be treated with the same nostalgia in fifteen years or so.

    On January 20, 2017, no matter who is being sworn in, Republicans will swear that if you really want to honor what our first African American president stood for you will reject soçialism and sell your children to UBS as organ donors.

  30. 30.

    FormerSwingVoter

    September 5, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    OT: Check out the Twitters! The GOP bought the hashtag #FailingAgenda – and it has been entirely taken over by Dems making fun of Republicans, except for the one lonely GOP-paid tweet-like ad at the top.

  31. 31.

    celticdragonchick

    September 5, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    @Humanities Grad:

    In the grim darkness of the convention center, there is only war….

    …and the laughter of thirsting Gods idiot media villagers.

  32. 32.

    Comrade Dread

    September 5, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Yet nothing would appeal to independents and swing voters more than if the president were to embrace the findings of the 2010 Simpson-Bowles deficit-reduction commission and make it clear that he too has a plan to revitalize the U.S. economy, reduce the deficit, reform entitlements and spur economic growth through a fairer and leaner tax system.

    Yeah… **** that. People want jobs and people want money and cutting spending isn’t going to give them either.

    Fix the economy, get it running again, then we can talk about reducing spending, raising taxes, and paying off the national debt.

    Faith-based economics will be the ruin of this country.

  33. 33.

    mamayaga

    September 5, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    @Chyron HR:

    “President Bill Clinton” and “Mr. Obama”? I can’t imagine why the author refered to these two accomplished men with such varying degrees of respectfulness.

    This sort of stuff makes me hope that Deval Patrick wins the WH in 2016. Apparently insufficient gaskets have been sprung so far.

  34. 34.

    Napoleon

    September 5, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Just a reminder, Clinton had his increase of taxes on the rich pass without a single Republican vote in the House or Senate.

  35. 35.

    Hal

    September 5, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    In 2008, Mr. Obama promised to help unite America in a “post-partisan” Washington. But the 2012 campaign has been one of the most negative in memory.

    He’s blaming the overall negativity on Obama? So Romney’s bullshit is Obama’s fault because upon election conservatives who hate Democrats, Liberal, Moderates and anyone else who doesn’t fit within their narrow world view didn’t fall in love with him?

    Reminds me of a friend who posted on facebook that Obama had failed, and I’m quoting here, “to get the other side to be more bi-partisan.” If only he had a cosmic cube, or monkey’s paw or something.

  36. 36.

    Anatoliĭ Lъudьvigovich Bzyp (formerly Horrendo Slapp, Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.)

    September 5, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    What I really liked was this:

    More than anyone else in this race, Paul Ryan has spoken of the need for fiscal discipline and economic growth…

    Yeah, he sure has spoken about this, but that’s all he’s done. His budget is worse than doing nothing if you really want the deficit to go down. If all you care about is whining about how “entitlements are out of control” or some such shit, and you want to use that as an excuse to gut the social safety net–such as it is–in this country while all the while sucking off plutocrats as they drink bottled water infused with the essence of shredded hundred dollar bills, then, yeah, damned right Ryan’s “plan” is the one you want. Somehow, I have this vague feeling that the Wall Street Journal people only care about the latter.

  37. 37.

    Ben D.

    September 5, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Funny, all I can remember about the GOP and Bill Clinton from the 90s were breathless ALL CAPS chain emails from my wingnut relatives about Vince Foster filling up my CompuServe inbox.

  38. 38.

    Culture of Truth

    September 5, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    For his part, President Obama needs to change direction—immediately and decisively.

    Yeah, he’ll get right on that.

  39. 39.

    Culture of Truth

    September 5, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    For his part, President Obama needs to change direction—immediately and decisively.

    Oh, you were finished? Allow me to retort!

  40. 40.

    Brachiator

    September 5, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    @scav:

    I’m still working on the Clinton as Savior thing too. Hillary for VP! was the last round.

    Republican goons used to hate Clinton because he was white trash. Now, they love him because he was white.

    They used to hate him because black voters loved him. Now, they want to claim that he was singlehandedly kicking the butts of all those lazy black folks who wanted to be on welfare forever and ever.

    These Republicans are sad and desperate fools.

    The Big Dog better kick their sorry GOP asses back to the curb in his speech tonight.

  41. 41.

    Violet

    September 5, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    From the article:

    More than anyone else in this race, Paul Ryan has spoken of the need for fiscal discipline and economic growth

    You don’t even have to read past this line to know what this guy is all about. He’s buy wiping his mouth from the blow job he just gave Ryan.

  42. 42.

    Warren Terra

    September 5, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    @Napoleon:

    Just a reminder, Clinton had his increase of taxes on the rich pass without a single Republican vote in the House or Senate.

    I’m pretty sure there was a little spat about whether this is true recently, in the last week or two – that some Republican spokesthing went on a national political-news show and insisted that Clinton had worked with the Republicans to slash the deficit, and repeatedly denied the host’s rebuttal that Clinton had passed his budget without any Republican votes.

    More Retconning (thanks for the term, Chris) from the Right.

  43. 43.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 5, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    @Comrade Dread: It’s so weird. There are ads whose whole premise appears to be that creating jobs entails cutting debt. And Republicans just nod along like it makes sense, and so do their media enablers.

  44. 44.

    Hal

    September 5, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Republican goons used to hate Clinton because he was white trash. Now, they love him because he was white.

    Yep. That Clinton loved also only started once Hilary lost the primaries and Republicans thought they could siphon away voters based on an assumption that they were as racist as some of their own constituents.

    It’s also impossible to deny the Clinton surplus and economic success, especially compared to Bush.

  45. 45.

    Culture of Truth

    September 5, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Yet nothing would appeal to independents and swing voters more than if the president were to embrace the findings of the 2010 Simpson-Bowles deficit-reduction commission and make it clear that he too has a plan to revitalize the U.S. economy, reduce the deficit, reform entitlements and spur economic growth through a fairer and leaner tax system.

    Meh, 50 Shades of Grey has S/M than this.

  46. 46.

    jrg

    September 5, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Yeah, the party that brought us “deficits don’t matter” and called living wills that prevent defensive medicine “death panels” is fiscally responsible.

  47. 47.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 5, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    @Violet: “Oooh, baby, I need you, your discipline is making me grow.”

  48. 48.

    SatanicPanic

    September 5, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    @Chris:

    One wonders if Obama will be treated with the same nostalgia in fifteen years or so.

    He will be. Because Obama will lose in 2012, thus paving the way for a true progressive in 2016. They’re gonna hate Alan Grayson!

  49. 49.

    scav

    September 5, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    @Brachiator: Clinton was also far closer to them on lots of policies is my guess. Their hard swing rightward has counter-intuitively also allowed room for Dems to more freely push left (following Hotelling logic here) and the economic chaos can make pushing fundamental change easier. I’m not saying race doesn’t play a part, but there are some other things going on too.

  50. 50.

    Aet

    September 5, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    I keep having this hope that Clinton speaks during the convention and just goes to town talking about how his administration was the last one to create solid growth, how it had to do it totally without R support. That he just runs into the ground the message that Rs simply cannot be trusted on economic issues, thus linking Ryan to the massive congressional unpopularity.

  51. 51.

    Ash Can

    September 5, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    I recall being gobsmacked in the 90s at how much the WSJ editorial board hated Clinton, who had presided over one of the greatest economic boom times in the nation’s history. By all rights, they should have loved the guy. It was then that I realized just how far the WSJ had fallen, and I haven’t considered it a serious publication since.

  52. 52.

    Violet

    September 5, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    This is one giant Villager pundit whine. And you know why? Because President Obama doesn’t care what they think and doesn’t pay attention to them. He’s looking at things like actual polling data, talking to real people, and giving interviews to reporters in local markets. The Villager pundit wankfest is irrelevant to him. They’re not getting him elected, no matter how disillusioned they are that their “work” matters.

    And so the Village haz a sad and a mad. And they whine.

  53. 53.

    1badbaba3

    September 5, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    So much talk about evil imaginary Obama and all the things he hasn’t done, or should do. And yet precious little mention of what Republicans have actually done over the past 40 years. Hmmmm, that liebrul media sure is workin’ hard (!?!?) for da money.

  54. 54.

    Chris

    September 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    @MikeJ:

    On January 20, 2017, no matter who is being sworn in, Republicans will swear that if you really want to honor what our first African American president stood for you will reject soçialism and sell your children to UBS as organ donors.

    The curse of being a progressive. If you’re one of those fortunate few who gets anything done and is remembered for it, within two generations tops your name will be usurped and paraded around by people you would have loathed to promote policies you would have opposed with your dying breath.

    See also MLK, Truman, Teddy Roosevelt, Abe Lincoln, many of the Founding Fathers, and Jesus H. Christ.

    @Brachiator:

    Republican goons used to hate Clinton because he was white trash. Now, they love him because he was white.

    LMAO yes!!!

  55. 55.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    @SatanicPanic: “President Castro doesn’t know what he’s doing! He should be more ruthless and use the bully pulpit, really stick it to the Republicans like Barack Obama did!”

  56. 56.

    JGabriel

    September 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    __
    __
    Zandar:

    Also, Centrist Daleks versus Small Business Orks. Somebody make that happen.

    The Daleks would win, unless the orcs outnumber them by 1000 to 1 or better. The Daleks have better armor, better weapons, and time travel — the orcs will need massively superior numbers to have any chance at all, or an intervention from the Doctor.

    .

  57. 57.

    Calouste

    September 5, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    @Chyron HR:

    I can’t be bothered to read the article to see if the below is true, but the convention is, as used by the BBC, who I trust most in this particular regard, to use the title of the position at the first mention of the person in the article and Mr/Mrs/Ms/Lord/Lady at any subsequent ones.

    Of course, the BBC would use former President BIll Clinton rather than President Bill Clinton.

  58. 58.

    Lurking Canadian

    September 5, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Shorter: It would be great for us if the President were to abandon his current, successful strategy and adopt the following, losing strategy instead.

  59. 59.

    D Paul

    September 5, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    The Big Triangulator helped destroy regulation of the banking system and got NAFTA passed.

    This is considered serious thinking inside the village bubble.

  60. 60.

    eric

    September 5, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    I will bet anyone $10,000 that William Jefferson Clinton knocks it so far out of the park tonight that they will be chasing the ball down side streets. I hated his triangulation, but he is a bad a$$ speaker. he is so relaxed and conversational, but clever (and cunning) that he is gonna end this Bill vs Obama fantasy once and for fucking all. Realistically, this is either (1) his last major political speech of his lifetime or (2) an essential allegiance building speech for Hillary’s possible 2016 campaign (and I am sure she reminds him daily that he owes her big time). This is about his presidential legacy too. Historically, i think this is the most important speech of the convention — it ties together the boomtime of the 90s to the future of Obama’s administration, while likely referencing that large 8 year detour that goes unspoken in republican circles.

  61. 61.

    scav

    September 5, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    @Calouste: But there are UK / US differences in convention. They had to resort to them to smooth out Romney’s referring to David Miliband (?) as Leader instead of using his name. Said that is was ‘mercan custom to use the job title more.

  62. 62.

    Brachiator

    September 5, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    @scav:

    Clinton was also far closer to them on lots of policies is my guess.

    Nah, they’re just bullshitting. They hated Clinton with a white hot fury. They hated him more when he co-opted some of their policies and made them workable without an ultra-regressive sting.

    I mean, shit, they tried to shut the freaking government down rather than co-operate witht the Big Dog. That wasn’t because they were close on policy issues.

    Their ball washing of Clinton now is a cynical attempt to sway moderates and independents.

    I wonder if Clinton will still want to be loved by any of the Republcians, or clearly and firmly kick them in the teeth. Ted Kennedy would have.

  63. 63.

    Jamobey

    September 5, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Can someone link to the Kickstarter for Centrist Daleks versus Small Business Orks?

  64. 64.

    Legalize

    September 5, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    So this is all good news. It means that Team O should just keep up the pressure – maybe crank it up a little more – see if we can wring out some more wingnut tears from those pointy skulls.

  65. 65.

    Warren Terra

    September 5, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    The Republicans-as-Daleks thing is cute, but they’re really anti-Cybermen.

    The Cybermen spread their culture and ideology by separating the brain from their victim, discarding the body and transplanting the brain to a new host mechanism, and then forcing their victim to eschew emotion and to be coldly rational and efficient. The Republicans also believe in removing the brains from their victims’ bodies, but everything else is precisely the opposite.

  66. 66.

    SatanicPanic

    September 5, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: “I told you we should have voted for Kim Jong-Un! Party unity my ass!”

  67. 67.

    Legalize

    September 5, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    So this is all good news. It means that Team O should just keep up the pressure – maybe crank it up a little more – see if we can wring out some more wingnut tears from those pointy skulls.

  68. 68.

    Jamobey

    September 5, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Can someone link to the Kickstarter for Centrist Daleks versus Small Business Orks?

  69. 69.

    Legalize

    September 5, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    So this is all good news. It means that Team O should just keep up the pressure – maybe crank it up a little more – see if we can wring out some more wingnut tears from those pointy skulls.

  70. 70.

    Violet

    September 5, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I mean, shit, they tried to shut the freaking government down rather than co-operate witht the Big Dog

    When Clinton was President they tried to shut the government down. In Obama’s first term they tried to shut the country down. I hope Bill makes this connection. There is nothing the Republicans won’t do.

  71. 71.

    catclub

    September 5, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    @Ash Can: “It was then that I realized just how far the WSJ had fallen.”

    And that was ten years before Murdoch bought it.

  72. 72.

    scav

    September 5, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    @Brachiator: Exactly, they hated him then but in retrospect he was far less a danger to them, that’s all I’m saying. Obama’s lot has crafted a more cohesive disciplined crew and are accomplishing more, even under shitty circumstances.

  73. 73.

    Violet

    September 5, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I mean, shit, they tried to shut the freaking government down rather than co-operate witht the Big Dog

    When Clinton was President they tried to shut the government down. In Obama’s first term they tried to shut the country down. I hope Bill makes this connection. There is nothing the Republicans won’t do.

  74. 74.

    karen marie

    September 5, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Charlie Pierce is truly a god. He gets at why I’m a Democrat in a way that I could never do.

  75. 75.

    Mnemosyne

    September 5, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    It has been said before, but only because it’s so true: Mr. Obama should follow the lead of President Bill Clinton, who emphasized in both his terms in office the need for unity and consensus to achieve fiscal restraint.

    I agree — President Obama should follow Bill Clinton’s lead and raise the top tax brackets back to where they were during the Clinton administration.

    See? Bipartisanship!

  76. 76.

    Joshua Norton

    September 5, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    open-minded scientist must question the theory,

    A very wise man once said “It pays to have an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out”.

    I tend to agree with him.

  77. 77.

    jibeaux

    September 5, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    @Face: In celebrity gossip parlance (“baby bump”), I swear it sounds like Ryan knocked the Mittster up.

  78. 78.

    karen marie

    September 5, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Charlie Pierce is truly a god. He gets at why I’m a Democrat in a way that I could never do.

  79. 79.

    Chris

    September 5, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    @Hal:

    Yep. That Clinton loved also only started once Hilary lost the primaries and Republicans thought they could siphon away voters based on an assumption that they were as racist as some of their own constituents.

    It’s ridiculous. They’ve been trying to siphon away “Racist White Democrats” for years, and incredibly they’re STILL trying to do it now… never mind that that mine went dry years ago.

    Yes, there are still racist white Democrats, but if they’ve stuck with the party through the last fifty years up to and including the black president, their racism probably isn’t what determines their votes. And if you haven’t been able to reach them in fifty years culminating in a black candidacy in 2008, you probably aren’t going to be able to peel them away now.

    The Republican Party asking for votes – a one trick pony. Like Alfred Pennyworth entertaining guests. “Tell them that joke you know!”

  80. 80.

    Another Halocene Human

    September 5, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    I saw my first Romney sticker in the wild in North Florida today!

    It was on a scooter being driven by a be-suited UF student (B-school? Young Republicans?), affixed right below what I swear to go was a Nittany lions sticker.

    FIGURE THAT OUT. I DARE YOU.

    (Also, too, it’s kind of blasphemy to put another school’s logo on your vehicle at UF… off UF is okay, as we do have FAMU and FSU fans around, not surprising given UF’s segregationist past. You even see beleaguered Jags fans. And while I’ve never seen it on a car, I’ve seen people openly wearing Steelers jerseys off campus whenever they’re playing. Who knew there were that many Pittsburghians in Fluhduh? But another freaking school’s logo on campus? Was this guy visiting? Huh? I mean both schools have class this week, right?)

  81. 81.

    mamayaga

    September 5, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    @Calouste: I think British usage may be a little different. Recall that one of the things called a gaffe when Romney visited the UK was calling Ed Miliband “Mr. Leader” instead of by his name. Now it’s probably true that Mitt didn’t remember his name, but his usage would have been fine in the US — we often call leaders “Mr. President” or “Mr. Speaker” when talking to them, and refer to them by their positions when talking about them.

    On the article in question I agree with the original interpretation, which accords exactly with the experience of most women when they get a call from a doctor, “Hello, Mary. This is Dr. Doofus.”

  82. 82.

    danimal

    September 5, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Tell me one time that Obama has demonized the wealthy. Gawd, I’m sick of that right-wing talking point.

    NOTE: You’ll find it next to the apology tour speech template, right behind the Whitey tape.

  83. 83.

    Maude

    September 5, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    Clinton was Wall Street’s bff. Obama, Dodd Frank, not so much.

  84. 84.

    Chris

    September 5, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    @Another Halocene Human:

    Also, too, it’s kind of blasphemy to put another school’s logo on your vehicle at UF…

    LOL, I’ve been at FIU in Miami for a month, still walk around in a UF cap because I’m too cheap to buy a new one. (And I didn’t even go to UF; some of my relatives did and my grandmother keeps getting me Gators stuff for free).

  85. 85.

    danielx

    September 5, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    It has been said before, but only because it’s so true: Mr. Obama should follow the lead of President Bill Clinton, who emphasized in both his terms in office the need for unity and consensus to achieve fiscal restraint.

    Of course Republicans and the editors of the Wall Street Journal in particular were huge fans of Bill Clinton during his time in office; just ask Bill. Newt Gingrich is Clinton’s BFF!

    Therefore Obama should follow the conclusions of the Simpson-Bowles commission if he won’t have the common decency to resign from office before November.

    He should also pay attention to the Very Serious Paul Ryan, whom all good Villagers just adore. His math may suck, but with that manly jaw, shock of black hair and blank blue eyes, how can they resist? Obama needs to listen to this man!

    Because bipartisanship. Or something.

  86. 86.

    catclub

    September 5, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    @karen marie: Tom Junod, but Charlie’s column. Still a great read.

  87. 87.

    The Moar You Know

    September 5, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    I wonder if Clinton will still want to be loved by any of the Republcians, or clearly and firmly kick them in the teeth.

    @Brachiator: I doubt the man has forgotten Kenneth Starr or the impeachment vote.

    I’m predicting a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners diatribe. He can do that. He can do pissed-off like few I’ve ever seen. He knows this is his speech for the ages. It’s payback time. What do you think he’s going to do?

    Republicans are going to be fucking sorry they ever entertained the idea of pissing Clinton off by the time his speech is done.

  88. 88.

    mamayaga

    September 5, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    I think the belated Clinton love from Repugs is nothing more than a desire to soak up some of his popularity. He’s still vastly more popular than his successor, and vastly more popular than the current R nominee. They really have no one on their side that could lend them even a semblance of general popular appeal.

  89. 89.

    Brachiator

    September 5, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    @scav:

    Exactly, they hated him then but in retrospect he was far less a danger to them

    Oh yeh, in retrospect and revisionist history, Bill Clinton is their best fucking friend.

    They’re still bullshitting.

    I’m seeing a cynical appeal to race and phony bipartisanship, not to policy. Especially when GOP surrogates try to bring up the supposed slams Clinton made on Obama during the 2008 primary campaign.

    It seems like only yesterday where there was all that Clinton hate. Now, the GOP love the Clintons so much, and want to help Obama, that they recently suggested that Obama dump Biden and put Hillary on the ticket as VP. And then, Mittens would say, “Oh, that’s such a wise choice, I won’t even bother opposing you.”

    None of this is serious on the GOP’s part. But it’s fun watching them dazzle themselves with their own bullshit.

  90. 90.

    celticdragonchick

    September 5, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    @JGabriel:

    The Daleks would win, unless the orcs outnumber them by 1000 to 1 or better. The Daleks have better armor, better weapons, and time travel — the orcs will need massively superior numbers to have any chance at all, or an intervention from the Doctor.

    That is the whole thing with Orks. They always outnumber you, and even if they lose…they just come back tomorrow with more boyz to “…’ave anover go at it” and hit you over the head with a ‘uge choppa (huge chopper. A really big chainsaw sword, usually backed up with noisy, wildly inaccurate belt fed machine guns and ramshackle tanks looted from previous battles).

    Dats why Orks is da best.

  91. 91.

    ? Martin

    September 5, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    @Face: No shit. Nate shows a pretty strong divergence all through the last week – Obama is pulling out his largest lead yet – up in EVs, popular vote, and likelihood of winning from a week ago. And this is ominous:

    On average, between 1968 and 2008, the challenging candidate led by 10 percentage points in polls conducted just after his convention. By comparison, the challenging candidate eventually lost the popular vote by an average of three points in these years. That means the post-convention polls overrated the challenger by an average of 13 points.

    Nate notes that the margin has been disappearing, but the bump in the past was noticeable. It’s just not there now. We’ll see how it goes for Obama. I admit that moving his speech indoors is disappointing.

  92. 92.

    rikyrah

    September 5, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    these clowns are always wrong, and always want the Democrat to go cowering in the corner. good riddance to them

  93. 93.

    Ash Can

    September 5, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    @catclub: When Murdoch bought it, it made perfect sense to me. The WSJ hacks fit perfectly with his business model.

  94. 94.

    jl

    September 5, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    @mamayaga:

    ” I think the belated Clinton love from Repugs is nothing more than a desire to soak up some of his popularity. He’s still vastly more popular than his successor, and vastly more popular than the current R nominee. They really have no one on their side that could lend them even a semblance of general popular appeal. ”

    Probably so. Bill Clinton is a (nominal) white man, and will not be President again. So, for different reasons, attractive to use for various deceptions by GOP and shlub pollsters.

    Note though, that for the GOP, Clinton was not quite so upstanding official white man while in office.

  95. 95.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    September 5, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    @? Martin:

    Kevin Drum had a chart in his post a few days ago that shows a diminishing convention bounce for one party since Bush was elected. I’ll let you guess who.

    Where’d our bounce go?

  96. 96.

    scav

    September 5, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    @Brachiator: Well, we definitely agree as to the bullshitting, it’s about the only ammo in their holster. Not that anyone with a brain would buy their look we’re all bipartisan in the rearview fun-house mirror and with former Dem politicians line, except the zombie crowd and they’ve got that demographic sewed up.

    Oh, & I posit that Romney is a Cyborg in the current spacefight, only his download for upgrade to Cyborg leader failed — he’s working with it. If we could only find the code to their emotional inhibitor chips . . . . party of the “head” wasn’t it?

  97. 97.

    Commenting at Ballon Juice since 1937

    September 5, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    What? no ponies?
    Obama won’t let us have our cake and eat it too?

    the bastard!!

  98. 98.

    Chris

    September 5, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    @scav:

    Well, we definitely agree as to the bullshitting, it’s about the only ammo in their holster.

    “Dazzle ’em with bullshit.”
    “Well, we got nothing else to dazzle ’em with, do we, Rob? And it is such dazzling bullshit.”

    (From “Air America.”)

  99. 99.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    September 5, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    which explains a large part of the Ryan-inspired Romney bump.

    The only bump Ryan inspires IS IN PUNDITS’ PANTS.

  100. 100.

    ABL

    September 5, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Even though I’m not a hardcore nerd like summayall, I love the idea of Centrist Daleks using their EXTERMINATE!! powers sparingly instead of all willy nilly like they usually do.

  101. 101.

    AA+ Bonds

    September 5, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    More than anyone else in this race, Paul Ryan has spoken of the need for

    I’m sure he has, bless his heart

  102. 102.

    shoutingattherain

    September 5, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    You figured out how to use “tesseract” in a post. That’s not easy. Well done!

  103. 103.

    AA+ Bonds

    September 5, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    More than anyone else, Paul Ryan has spoken of the need for the bus to stop and get gas

    ~Paul Ryan stands on pedal for 50 miles, bus runs out of gas~

    Let it never be said that Paul Ryan didn’t speak of this!

  104. 104.

    rikyrah

    September 5, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    In 2008, Mr. Obama promised to help unite America in a “post-partisan” Washington. But the 2012 campaign has been one of the most negative in memory.

    The muthafuckas met THE NIGHT OF HIS INAUGURATION promising to commit ECONOMIC TREASON AGAINST THIS COUNTRY.

    fuck these clowns.

  105. 105.

    Paul

    September 5, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    More than anyone else in this race, Paul Ryan has spoken of the need for fiscal discipline and economic growth

    Funny stuff considering that Paul Ryan voted to spend other people’s money like a drunken sailor when the GOP had the White House.

  106. 106.

    daverave

    September 5, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    How about a BJ poll pile on this question from the WSJ article:
    How would you grade Michelle Obama’s DNC speech?
    Amazingly, 35% of WSJ readers rate the speech a “D” or an “F”!

  107. 107.

    Tonal Crow

    September 5, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    So President Obama has the unique opportunity to be the adult in the room by handing control of the country over to the nice folks who aren’t all that sure about evolution because the open-minded scientist must question the theory, but they believe tax cuts magically create additional tax revenues because rich people will spring forth from the nothingness like Orks from Warhammer 40K….

    Well, does it count that Republican liars spring forth like Orcs from Mordor whenever the chance of regaining their Precious presents itself?

  108. 108.

    eyelessgame

    September 5, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    @Chyron HR: I think my pedant/style-nazi brain triggered. Proper Stylez sez that the first time you refer to the person, you refer to his or her title, which they did: “President Obama” in the first reference to him. After that it’s “Mr. Obama”. In the same way, “President Bill Clinton” the first time he’s mentioned; after that, “Mr. Clinton”.

    So there’s much to complain about in the article, but slighting the President isn’t one.

  109. 109.

    JustRuss

    September 5, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    @agorabum:
    I specifically remember that the Republicans impeached Clinton for being too wonderful, they loved him so much they just couldn’t stand it. But let me check my notes, just to make sure….

  110. 110.

    Bruce S

    September 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Pat Caddell and “whoever” are hardly worth bringing on a meteor. Frankly, not really worth bringing on a half-bucket of spit. These are the walking dead. I doubt that Schoen has any credibility left even with hard-core Clintonites.

    I worry about the Democrats, including the White House, forgetting Deval Patrick’s clarion call to “grow a spine” when they’re no longer in campaign mode and Crazy Old Coot Simpson and Investment Banker Bowles’ plans for raising the retirement and Medicare eligibility age and capping federal revenues get re-booted as “sensible centrism” in the face of the “fiscal cliff” hysterics. They’re not “sensible centrism” – they’re “sane conservatism” and should seen as such by the Democratic base. That’s going to get ugly and Democrats aren’t prepared for it – the Tea Party’s frame was successfully hung around that debate, while our “organizers” in OFA and elsewhere were sitting on their hands waiting for the White House to lead (which IMHO is not it’s job.)

    But when you watch this convention, which is being brilliantly crafted, it’s clear that the party’s broad base – the heart and soul of Democrats nationwide – couldn’t be bothered with the mindlessly retrograde crap clowns like Caddell and Schoen are selling.

  111. 111.

    yopd1

    September 5, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Anyone seen this:

    An anonymous individual or group is alleging that they have gained “all available 1040 tax forms” of GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney by accessing computers in the Franklin office of the professional services firm PricewaterhouseCoopers.

    Their site is getting hammered, but basic gist is they are trying to get money from campaigns or supporters to either release or destroy the files.

  112. 112.

    gene108

    September 5, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    @Warren Terra:

    Thus, Reagan was a government-shrinking tough guy who’d never negotiate with terrorists, Bill Clinton was a bipartisan teddy bear who’d never raise taxes on rich folks, and Paul Ryan is Serious About The Deficit.

    The thing with Reagan deification by Republicans is he’s all they got, as far as national leaders for the last 50 years goes.

    Nixon = crook
    Bush, Sr. = meh
    Bush, Jr. = in contention for worst President evah

    Sure Democrats can be proud of President Kennedy, Johnson’s domestic agenda, Carter (especially post-President) and the prosperity under Clinton, but all Republicans have to spread their support over is Reagan.

    All the other Republican Presidents are crooks, failures or forgettable.

  113. 113.

    Feudalism Now!

    September 5, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Small businesses need more Dakka Dakka to succeed. A larger stimulus would provide more Dakka Dakka to make the economy really go WAAGH!
    Dear FSM what have you done Zandar? Too many geekisms in one place.
    Rethugs really do live in an alternate reality.

  114. 114.

    Chris

    September 5, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    @gene108:

    Lucky for Reagan he was able to pass on all his fuckups to George H. W. Bush. Domestically he had to deal with the fallout of Reaganomics (pissing off the base in the process when he raised taxes), overseas he fought wars against two third world dictators who’d spent the previous decade gorging themselves with American money and weapons from the good President Reagan. But Bush gets the blame and Reagan gets to come out smelling like a rose. Go figure.

  115. 115.

    catclub

    September 5, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    @yopd1: Yes. I think it is a hoax.

    If it were true, they would probably include decrypted sample pages – like signatures – to show they are serious
    and have the goods.

  116. 116.

    jl

    September 5, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    @gene108:

    ” but all Republicans have to spread their support over is Reagan. ”

    You mean the mythical Reagan who never raised taxes, didn’t pursue arms control, didn’t negotiate with our most dangerous adversary (the Soviets), didn’t pursue immigration reform (even if that was forced on him to support his awful Central American policies).

    Edit: and who did not bring US troops home when the mission turned into a mess.

  117. 117.

    Bruce S

    September 5, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    The thing with Reagan deification by Republicans is he’s all they got, as far as national leaders for the last 50 years goes.
    Nixon = crook
    Bush, Sr. = meh
    Bush, Jr. = in contention for worst President evah

    As jl notes above, Reagan couldn’t be elected in today’s GOP because he was too much of a moderate in comparison, but the weirdest thing about the Reagan deification is that, based on Iran-Contra, he deserved even more than Nixon to be impeached. His transgressions and cover-ups were far worse in scope than Tricky Dick’s. And his apologia was pathetic.

  118. 118.

    Bruce S

    September 5, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Edit: and who did not bring US troops home when the mission turned into a mess.

    I think that one actually DID qualify as “cutting and running.”

    The Reagan Myth is admittedly powerful among the populace and the media – but utterly bizarre when examined even an inch beneath the surface.

  119. 119.

    Bruce S

    September 5, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    How would you grade Michelle Obama’s DNC speech?
    Amazingly, 35% of WSJ readers rate the speech a “D” or an “F”!

    That’s actually not surprising at all, given the nature of the WSJ’s editorial page and it’s avid readers. They’re no better than FOX on the op-ed end. Rabid…

  120. 120.

    David Hunt

    September 5, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    You know, I’m beginning to believe that people like the guys who wrote that WSJ article are almost solely motivated by a desire to find out what Soylent Green actually tastes like…

  121. 121.

    toine

    September 5, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Silly centrist monkeaghs

  122. 122.

    Bill in Section 147

    September 5, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    @celticdragonchick: I think there are a couple of more “A”s in WAAAAGH!

    Also too…currently working on Bad Moons. Need some Xenos to join my World Eaters on against shelves already over run by Blood Angels and Sisters.

  123. 123.

    gvg

    September 5, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    @Another Halocene Human: @ school logos is actually common. Undergrad school then grad school, simple. I’ve worked here 15 years, it’s very common.

    there aren’t alot of any particular state other than Florida here, but there are some from all states. UF recruits widely because it’s considered broadening to the other students.

    In addition as a financial aid counselor I was really amazed at what some other states charge for in state tuition. Even though I think our out of state charges are outrageous, they are comperable to some other states IN STATE charges. Michigan and New York come to mind.

  124. 124.

    trollhattan

    September 5, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    @eric:
    If I know the Big Dog, he’s going to feed Willard’s lies about Obama’s supposed dismantling of the welfare-to-work requirement back to him so far down his gullet it will emerge from Willard’s pasty ass before the speech ends.

  125. 125.

    LanceThruster

    September 5, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    @trollhattan:

    And no amount of magic undies am gonna change that.

  126. 126.

    Patricia Kayden

    September 5, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    Why would Dems take advice from the WSJ?

  127. 127.

    celticdragonchick

    September 5, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    @Bill in Section 147:

    Need some Xenos to join my World Eaters on against shelves already over run by Blood Angels and Sisters.

    I’m wondering when GW is finally get around to supporting the Sisters again and release plastic and resin models. The delay is annoying me.

  128. 128.

    LanceThruster

    September 5, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    @gene108:

    Yet they want to run on “the brand you can trust” though in all fairness I have it on good authority (Ann Rmoney) that you can trust Mitt (however…that could just be to trust Mitt to enrich himself and his cronies at the expense of everyone else).

  129. 129.

    Bill in Section 147

    September 5, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    @celticdragonchick: There are rumors. For now I just have to see what Chaos will look like with the new book in 6th. Shooting seems to be the new black and my ‘zerkers all just have pistols.

  130. 130.

    Original Lee

    September 5, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Interesting FB discussion amongst some of the wingnuts on my friend list this morning, about Obamacare. The initial post was about how Friend A was honked off about Obamacare because the premium for Spouse’s “gold” employer-provided health insurance increased to where they can’t afford it any more, so they have to use the “bronze” policy, which means changing doctors, but it’s hard to find a doctor because they’re all retiring in disgust with Obamacare. Others chimed in about evil Obamacare, even though one of the participants in the discussion (not me) actually worked as a claims processor for a health insurance company and vainly tried to point out most of the problems they were experiencing were not related to Obamacare.

    I did try to inject a modicum of sense, but didn’t get far. One point Friend A made that I thought was valid was that Obamacare assumes that the current health insurance system will continue operating as it always has until the rules go into effect, but they can already see that is not the case. (This was in response to me pointing out that Obamacare doesn’t really kick until 2014.)

    I also tried to point out that the doctor thing isn’t new. Where they live (near each other in a red state), the doctors have been retiring and not being replaced by new young ones for about the last 10 years. Some of the doctors who are retiring NOW were already thinking about retirement; they are just getting out sooner because they don’t want to convert to electronic health records or because they don’t want to accept the lower payments. The area really never recovered from the Reagan recession, many of the younger people moved away and have never come back, and so it’s not a very attractive area for new doctors to establish themselves in solo or small group practice. Never mind that the AMA and the medical schools jointly decided 20-odd years ago to CLOSE some schools and SHRINK the class sizes because there were TOO MANY doctors coming out of the pipeline.

    I can’t argue with their outcomes, though – shitty care and long distances to doctors aren’t fun for anyone.

    (small edit to fix lack of verb)

  131. 131.

    4jkb4ia

    September 5, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Nothing would appeal to independents and swing voters David Brooks more than if the president were to embrace the findings of the Simpson-Bowles deficit reduction commission…

    Fixed. Since I sounded as if I agreed with Brooks at least a little in my comment on the Ryan speech I have to say that Brooks laid out two real alternatives in his column besides that one.

  132. 132.

    yopd1

    September 5, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    @catclub: see here

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