Is Romney going to criticize the Israeli Foreign Ministry now?
The trailer was uploaded to YouTube by an individual whose identity was in question. Some news organizations carried interviews with someone who said he was the filmmaker and identified himself as Sam Bacile, an Israeli-American real estate developer in California, but there was no immediate confirmation in official records of such a person. In one report, he identified himself as 52 and in another 56.
Yigal Palmor, the spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry, said in a telephoned statement: âNobody knows who he is. He is totally unknown in filmmaking circles in Israel. And anything he did â he is not doing it for Israel, or with Israel, or through Israel in any way.â Mr. Palmor also called the filmmaker âa complete loose cannon and an unspeakable idiot.â
(h/t reader D)
Look, no one seriously questions the right of Sam Bacile, whoever he is, to make and distribute this film. No one seriously questions the fact that the people who attacked the American embassy are even bigger whack jobs than Bacile is.
But it’s just plain stupid to pretend that elected officials should be standing behind the message of the film in any way. People who actually have to govern understand this, both here and in Israel.
Elizabelle
How hard was that?
eric
@Elizabelle: can we have just one palin-free thread….sheesh
Violet
Don’t question his right to do it, but I certainly question his judgment.
Napoleon
Sorry, donât have links but people like Jeff Goldberg and some others have been digging into who this guy is and it appears that he is not even Jewish, but perhaps tied to Coptic Christians and evangelicals, which is suggested more obliquely in the NY Times piece.
lamh35
James Fallows of The Atlantic on Romney:
Mitt Romney Drops His 3 a.m. Phone Call
Elizabelle
@eric:
Yeah, I hear you.
Gonna be fascinating to watch the fundraising in the next week or two.
And even more sad to see the diplomats’ bodies return to the U.S.
aimai
I question the right of a man pretending to be a Jewish-American film maker and making an incendiary film which will cost lives–Jewish, American, basically lots of lives, for purposes which are completely obscure but necessarily far from innocent:
I don’t even get why this is an issue of Free Speech. The US government didn’t sponsor this shit and doesn’t even have to condemn it. But its wrong that Bacile did it because it has ended up fomenting hatred and violence–which was its goal. Triumph of the Will wasn’t ok with me because FREE SPEECH Y’ALL. And neither was Birth of a Nation. Free Speech is a non sequiteur here.
aimai
Omnes Omnibus
Harrumph!
amk
Oops, some crazy mofos did and you got yourself four dead americans. See? World, doesn’t revolve around murka.
Violet
Hey, Jim DeMint agrees with Romney.
So he’s got that.
hueyplong
It seems like Romney is joining the rest of the GOP in understanding the First Amendment to mean that right wing nutjobs are entitled not only to free speech, but also to criticism-free speech.
Sometimes the stupid just starts to wear me down.
Amir Khalid
What does that name, “Sam Bacile”, sound like when you say it quickly? I suspect we should use quote marks around the name.
curiousleo
@Napoleon: here’s a link to Goldberg’s blog there are several posts about trying to find out who the unspeakable idiot is.
SatanicPanic
@lamh35: This is up there with McCain suspending his campaign so he could go to DC and look like a dumbass.
Tractarian
Tweets from the Cairo embassy:
Elizabelle
How strange.
One sentence Wiki entry about the IT embassy staffer who died with Ambassador Stevens.
The intertubez.
hueyplong
For what it’s worth, Vin Weber (sp?) went on NPR and said he’s astounded that the story seems to be about Romney and not Obama’s foreign policy failures.
I’m sorry to say I didn’t stick it out because it was getting kind of irksome.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@aimai: Because people don’t understand the first amendment, and are so far removed from its creation that they do not understand why a government has to be restrained. When I say “shut up” to someone other than my children, I don’t have any means of enforcing it. When the government says “shut up” on the other hand, it can do all sorts of things to make you shut up, which is why it has to be restrained.
“Good guys don’t have rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many.”
dedc79
I think a lot of these attacks are based on (among other things) a fundamental misunderstanding of how governance works in America. You’ve got people in Libya and/or Egypt who have been living under dictatorship for decades. In libya, if a program appeared on tv there was a good chance the govt either put it there or ok’d its being broadcast. So when a nutjob fundamentalist hears about some american movie, he may well think that things work similarly in America, and the movie was made with the approval of the american government. None of this is meant to explain away or excuse what happened, which was absolutely heinous.
Elizabelle
Now appears two of the dead are U.S. Marines?
KatinPhilly
That doesn’t for one second prove that Netanyahu and his supporters both in Israel in the US are not happy with the heinous attacks. I remember certain Israeli leaders all smug and almost gleeful when 9/11 happened.
LGRooney
So, he may be some Evangelical nut bag hoping to a) bring down Obama and b) start the Apocalypse?
He’s like the International Relations version of Charles Manson.
curiousleo
@Tractarian:
dang. that’s going to smart.
(also, it could be a new ‘that’s a clown question bro’ response.)
Carl Nyberg
Isn’t fomenting anti-Muslim and anti-Arab bigotry pretty standard in Israeli propaganda?
I wouldn’t particularly take the word of Israeli pols or the Israeli government.
But it is amusing that the Israeli Right is undercutting Romney on this issue.
“Welcome to the Big League, Mr. Romney. We trust your stay will be enjoyable but short.”
dmsilev
@Elizabelle: Looks like some WIkipedia editor fixed that bit of assholery.
Applejinx
@Elizabelle: He was a Goon- that’s probably affectionate and something of which he’d have approved/laughed at.
beltane
@Amir Khalid:I.P. Daily would have been too obvious?
aimai
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Yes, but even condemning particular speech acts isn’t the same as repressing free speech. Saying, for instance, that the film made by a person who is not even clearly of American citizenship (btw) is not, in fact, representative of the US government or other American citizens is NOT REPRESSING SPEECH. Its just not.
aimai
dedc79
@KatinPhilly: what the hell are you talking about?
Elizabelle
@Applejinx:
I was wondering if it was tribute, of a sort, from gamers.
And has been edited out, as dmsilev informs.
Linda Featheringill
@Amir Khalid:
Hi, Amir. I agree. Sam Bacile is the new nym for “too stupid to be alive.”
Raven
Wouldn’t seem to matter if they were or not, they were Americans in service to their country.
Redshift
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): And they remain sadly incapable of logic. If you think freedom of speech means I’m not allowed to tell you to shut up, why are you telling me to shut up about it?
Punchy
Heh. This is akin to me running to the MSM with a breathless story of how I was molested by Mitt, then being surprised that the story is about my credibility and not about some 0% chance that I was molested.
Repubs really are living in a closed off world. Impervious to facts and reality.
Villago Delenda Est
Look to Fresno.
Home of Free Republic.
This person is “an expert at uncovering al Qaeda cells”?
Riiiiight. Probably at the Governor’s Mansion, the Warner Brothers back lot, and in Disneyland.
Raven
Demonstration in Tripoli “We Are Sorry”.
Princess
Sam Bacile doesn’t even seem to exist. Here’s a link:
Raven
@Villago Delenda Est: Yea shit, we had all kinds of training about Al Qaeda at Ft Campbell in 66.
Omnes Omnibus
@aimai: Previous threads on the topic led to some commenters suggesting that Cole, for one, opposed free speech based on objecting to this guy’s “work”. I am guessing that the free speech rights remark by DougJ was to forstall similar comments and the subsequent derailment of the thread.
Amir Khalid
@Linda Featheringill:
He’s a “property developer” whose name can’t be found in public records. A writer/director who made a $5 million film, but is unheard of in American and Israeli filmmaking circles and unknown to IMDB. I tells ya, he’s an international man of mystery!
::Gasp!:: OMG! He’s Austin Powers!
Linda Featheringill
It looks to me like somebody tried to start a war or something. I have no evidence as to where this idea started but right now it looks like some RW Americans were involved and they cooperated with violent forces in other countries. If this is the case, I think they should spend the rest of their lives in federal prisons, explaining just what the hell they were trying to do.
smintheus
Romney’s decision to politicize a horrific disaster and attack the administration in the middle of a crisis, suggesting that America is divided in how to respond to this violence, is unprincipled, self-serving, conniving, and reckless regarding other people’s welfare.
And yet there were many people who refused to believe the accounts of his business decisions at Bain because they implied that Romney would promote his own interests without regard for the damage he was doing to people and institutions he controlled.
jayjaybear
Wasn’t the IT guy who was killed connected to Anonymous somehow? If so, “Sam Bacile” isn’t going to be an unbroken alias for long…
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Napoleon:
I’ve been digging, too. No luck. But there’s no record of any real estate agent (or film director) named “Sam Bacile” anywhere.
There’s a Sam Klein of California (with, oddly enough, ties to the Coptics) who appears the likely suspect (h/t Max Blumenthal on twitter, can’t link here).
smintheus
Romney’s decision to politicize a horrific disaster and attack the administration in the middle of a crisis, suggesting that America is divided in how to respond to this violence, is unprincipled, self-serving, conniving, and reckless regarding other people’s welfare.
And yet there were many people who refused to believe the accounts of his business decisions at Bain because they implied that Romney would promote his own interests without regard for the damage he was doing to people and institutions he controlled.
HRA
@Amir Khalid:
It sounds like “some imbecile”.
HRA
@Amir Khalid:
It sounds like “some imbecile”.
smintheus
Romney’s decision to politicize a horrific disaster and attack the administration in the middle of a crisis, suggesting that America is divided in how to respond to this violence, is unprincipled, self-serving, conniving, and reckless regarding other people’s welfare.
And yet there were many people who refused to believe the accounts of his business decisions at Bain because they implied that Romney would promote his own interests without regard for the damage he was doing to people and institutions he controlled.
Amir Khalid
@Linda Featheringill:
He’s a “property developer” whose name can’t be found in public records. A writer/director who made a $5 million film, but is unheard of in American and Israeli filmmaking circles and unknown to IMDB. I tells ya, he’s an international man of mystery!
::Gasp!:: OMG! He’s Austin Powers!
Calouste
@Villago Delenda Est:
He also said he was 52, which would make him 15 when the last American soldiers left Vietnam.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
FYWP eated my comment, but I see others have brought up Sam Klein so no loss.
“Sam Bacile” spells out “Basic Male”, BTW.
Mudge
Apparently Pam Geller held an anti-Islam conference in NYC yesterday. John Bolton and Lars Vilks, a Swedish artist who painted Mohammed as a dog, were there. I wonder if Mitt’s advisors came from that conference foaming from the mouth and gave their advice last night..
http://thecritical-post.com/blog/2012/09/first-annual-sion-conference-taking-place-in-new-york-city-on-911-anniversary-pamela-geller-blazes-trail-against-cair-blasphemy-initiatives-tcpchicago/
Roger Moore
@Linda Featheringill:
FTFY.
scav
@HRA: Some Debacle too. Running it through an anagram program, too many to go through at this exact moment. Amen Gibes, Mean Gibes, Big Enemas, Begin As Me, Same Begin, I Be Gas Men, nothing too obvious but I’m not good at these games.
FormerSwingVoter
OT, but in Libya right now there’s apparently a peace protest thing denouncing the attacks:
https://twitter.com/2011feb17/status/245918324184199169/photo/1
psycholinguist
So, I watched the Romney press thing, and I read the two statements issued by the embassy. I don’t see the word apology, I see the word condemnation. Why in the world is he allowed to call that an apology, over and over and over again, without any of these press idiots asking him where, precisely, the apology occurred? I would really love to hear him explain, exactly, how condemning the film as intolerant equals an apology.
Roger Moore
@psycholinguist:
IOKIYAR. SATSQ.
MikeJ
@Redshift: BElafon didn’t say you couldn’t tell the idiot “film maker” to shut up, he said the government shouldn’t go around telling people to shut up. Which is absolutely right.
That doesn’t mean the government shouldn’t forcefully state that he’s an idiot, and they’ve already done so.
Hungry Joe
@KatinPhilly: [Block quote, which I can’t get to work] That doesnât for one second prove that Netanyahu and his supporters both in Israel in the US are not happy with the heinous attacks. I remember certain Israeli leaders all smug and almost gleeful when 9/11 happened. [End block quote]
Excuse me? What? Is there any evidence at all that Netanyahu and his supporters both in Israel and the US are happy with the heinous attacks? And which “certain” Israeli leaders were “all smug and almost gleeful” about 9/11? I somehow missed that.
In short, what the sam hill are you talking about? Got anything to back it up?
I’m no Netanyahu fan, but sheesh.
Applejinx
@jayjaybear: Yeah, you could almost say he’d have to be an ImBecile to think he could evade detectio…
woopsy.
(hat tip to HRA!)
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@psycholinguist:
__
Two reasons:
1. In the lexicon of the Right, any communication from America to the rest of the world that doesn’t boil down to some variant of “Kneel before Zod” is an apology. Unless of course it involves a sainted Republican President pulling the Marines out of Lebannon right after having their barracks bombed, or sending a cake to Iran, etc., etc., in which case whatevers [waves hand dismissively].
2. The press idiots are useful idiots.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Amir Khalid:
I realize you’re joking, but not even that: An “Austin Powers” alias would at least have a well-planted backstory going back more than five days. It’s the first thing people check, especially now that anybody can.
This guy? Nothing.
Jewish Steel
He is still, still playing to his base, is Romney. 60 days out. Bad sign.
Dennis SGMM
@Raven:
Me neither and I was a couple of years after you. AQ is the new Commies for the MIC and the Republicans – both of which need an external enemy to survive.
Violet
Someone linked to Jeffrey Goldberg’s blog and I just clicked over there. He’s got a screenshot from this movie. I didn’t know there were actors portraying the Prophet Mohammad and other historical figures. Those actors, especially the one playing Mohammad, have to be worried about their lives and safety.
Linda Featheringill
@Raven:
The we’re-sorry demonstration:
That is sweet. I never for one moment thought that the people of Libya were guilty of this attack. But the gesture is touching, anyway.
Reklam
Did OFA hire someone to plant the idea in Mitt Romney’s head that his father really wants him to NOT be president on the long-haul flight to the London Olympics?
Seriously
Roy G.
“Sam Bacile” is a stalking horse for some larger interests. Cui bono?
Roy G.
“Sam Bacile” is a stalking horse for some larger interests. Cui bono?
Violet
@Reklam: The un-Manchurian candidate?
dedc79
@Hungry Joe: I posed the same question earlier in the thread, but no response.
LD50
@Jewish Steel:
Precisely. It’s like he’s stuck in last winter, when his #1 imperative was proving he could pander to the 27%-er crazies harder than Bachmann or Santorum. He can’t turn it off. There are millions of Americans who dug his comments, but they’re people who were never going to vote Obama in a million years anyway.
He still thinks “stroke the base harder and harder til Election Day” is the way to win.
Amir Khalid
@Reklam:
Let’s see. Did Leonardo DiCaprio sit next to him on that flight?
jimmiraybob
I just think that at times like this we need to take a moment to remember and reflect upon M. Romney’s courageous defensive tactics during the battle of Nom Paris during the big one, Vietnam, back in seven and aught. If not for his selfless and disciplined bicycle actions at the battle of Frog Legs and Caviar Hill*, our whole far-western war strategy would have been in shambles.
* I believe that Clint Eastward did the movie.
[as an aside, what a dick]
max
@dedc79: I think a lot of these attacks are based on (among other things) a fundamental misunderstanding of how governance works in America. Youâve got people in Libya and/or Egypt who have been living under dictatorship for decades. In libya, if a program appeared on tv there was a good chance the govt either put it there or okâd its being broadcast. So when a nutjob fundamentalist hears about some american movie
They freak out. Yes. This wouldn’t be any different than evangelical Christians freaking out if some foreigner made a really noxious movie about how evil Christ was. And what appears to have happened is the local fundie guy got a peaceful demo together and some locals boys decided to get noxious. No one appears to have been hurt. BFD. The usual suspects will demand we yell ‘Kneel before Zod’ (thanks, ThatLeftTurnInABQ!) and that’s that.
This thing in Libya is completely a different thing entirely. It seems fairly clear they expected something to happen in Egypt, so they decided to hop on the bandwagon, but it appears to me that they had actually planned out some kind of major assault on the local consulate in advance.
That’s something else entirely from some of the local kids acting stupid. Given that they were toting AK’s and RPG’s and it sounds like they had a separate ambush planned for the ambassador, well. I want to say it smells like Al-Qaeda but it doesn’t. It smells like *Taliban* tactics, since this is the sort of fun and hijinks they get up to in Aghanistan.
The fact that the attackers were flashing V-for-victory signs is very very very curious. Particularly since we have no one claiming credit.
It also appears that no one expected any of this in Benghazi, and Libyan security on hand acted to protect the consulate (and died doing do). So this is not good. Someone is playing games and it’s got not a damn thing to do with the Libyan revolution per se, except that there’s no Qaddafi around to violently suppress everyone.
It might be some local militia carrying it out, but I want to know who the moving hand is behind them.
max
[‘Wait for more smoke to clear.’]
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@LD50:
__
Most likely because it isn’t really pandering, it is more like paying blackmail. And the old wisdom regarding that is not to start because once you start paying the blackmailer, how do you stop?
Reklam
@Violet: This is how conspiracy theories begin. For some it is hard to believe people, especially ‘jayb creayators’, can be this incompetent.
Edit: I don’t mean you. I mean me. I spent a couple minutes thinking of JEB’16 and Barbara Bush Sr. in the mother role of Manchurian Candidate before realizing I shouldn’t waste my pretty mind on it.
dmsilev
#RomneyFlail continues:
Never back down! Never retreat! Wolverines!
I don’t know why conservatives don’t like Romney; his campaign acts like it’s being run by a set of conservative bloggers.
Davis X. Machina
@Linda Featheringill:I can’t read Arabic, but it should say something like “Sorry. We’ve got dicks over here, and you’ve got dicks over there. It’s what ties us together, it’s the very source of our common humanity — we’re all plagued with assholes.”
Schlemizel
@Villago Delenda Est:
No I’m sure he is a Viet Nam Vet,
He was with the Green Berets,
Special Unit Battalions…
Commando Airborne Tactics…
Specialist Tactics Unit Battalion.
Yeah, it was real hush hush
he was Agent Orange,
Special Agent Orange, that was him.
Linda Featheringill
@Roy G.: #68
Who benefits?
Dunno. Was the attempt successful? We might have a hard time determining who would benefit from such actions unless we know what the desired outcome was.
All logic aside, I feel that someone tried to do something evil and wasn’t really successful. Fortunately.
mechwarrior online
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/kyl-compares-cairo-embassy-tweet-blaming-rape-victim/56794/
Enjoy!
Applejinx
@Roy G.: Specifically, since ‘ImBecile’ is a complete troll and fake name…
Who exactly paid for the making of a movie intended specifically to troll Muslims in the middle east into attacking and KILLING American diplomats, for political gain?
This casts a really ugly light on Romney’s determination to stick by his planned/hastily-arrived-at angle, and the extreme look of smugness he’s been photographed wearing.
I’d really like to know who did this and why. It looks as though in some ways it succeeded beyond their wildest hopes in that American diplomats were killed. It looks like Romney was very quick to make the attack on an expected ‘Obama predictably apologizes and tries to make peace’, like Romney’s reaction was planned and no sort of panic at all.
That’s a really ugly accusation, but it looks like Romney and his backers are really ugly people.
Culture of Truth
Could someone post a link of Romney standing up for the Dixie Chicks?
Oh wait, he didn’t? Never mind.
Linda Featheringill
@Applejinx:
Oh, my. I think Romney is an idiot but I never suspected that he was in on the game.
Oh, that would be bad.
But that doesn’t mean I think you’re wrong.
Dennis SGMM
@Roy G.:
Who is a desperate person acting as the front man of a desperate organization with rich backers?
Mountain Meadows, baby.
WarMunchkin
@mechwarrior online: Oh god, kill me now. I cannot believe he said that.
LD50
I wonder how many Republicans are quietly thinking to themselves this afternoon, “we COULD have picked Huntsman, we COULD have picked Huntsman…”
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
The Atlantic has a good article on “Sam Bacile”.
Davis X. Machina
@LD50: Thirteen, fourteen tops.
Though he speak with the mouths of Reagans etc,, etc., Huntsman has been irretrievably tainted by working for the Dark Side in Beijing
Schlemizel
@Linda Featheringill:
No, if they had known in advance they could have done a marginally competent job of setting themselves up before hand and of responding in the aftermath. They didn’t set themselves up to be right ahead of time and they sure as hell botched the response (please read the Fallows piece linked above).
Even an incompetent like Willard could not have done this badly if he had a plan. What he has shown is he is totally unprepared to be POTUS.
JPL
My local CBS station just covered Mitt Romney. They gave the timeline and then mentioned that the President spoke with CBS today for an upcoming 60 minutes. The President in response to Romney’s comment said “He has a tendency to shoot first and aim later and as President you can’t do that.” He was then asked whether or it was irresponsible and the President said he would let the American people decide.
I’ll try to find a link
Schlemizel
@LD50:
Almost none. But there are probably plenty thinking “We could have picked Santorum”
These people are delusional but their delusions all add up in the wrong direction – away from sanity not towards it
Schlemizel
@LD50:
Almost none. But there are probably plenty thinking “We could have picked Santorum”
These people are delusional but their delusions all add up in the wrong direction – away from sanity not towards it
The Moar You Know
@mechwarrior online: Leave it to John Kyl to distill every possible hateful Republican response to this into two sentences. I really gotta give him props for slagging a bunch of Americans for desperately trying to calm down a situation in which they had every reason to expect that they were about to be murdered.
Culture of Truth
Sam Bacile 2016 !!!
“Gentlement, we may have found our perfect candidate…”
Villago Delenda Est
@mechwarrior online:
The scary thing is, we’re not even close yet to 11 on the crazy dial with Kyl. He’s like a 6 or a 7, tops.
Litlebritdifrnt
It looks like the movie is not even a real movie.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/inflammatory-anti-muslim-movie-may-not-be-a-real
eric
@Culture of Truth: he can run with Captain Tuttle as his VP.
lamh35
Obama On Romneyâs Libya Response: âShoot First And Aim Laterâ
MikeJ
If we wait a week Romney will say that Obama is handling the situation in exactly the manner Romney said he should have.
? Martin
Man, the Villagers are just destroying Romney. “Does the Romney campaign have no respect for the dead?” “We thought the campaign couldn’t sink any lower after the birther nonsense” And everyone is noting the parallels to McCain suspending his campaign.
I think the fun of ‘Both Sides Do It’ may have run its course. We might be onto Mocking Romney for Ratings now.
This feels like an irreversible turn, at least for the punditry. I think it’s going to be a lot harder for Romney to be extended the benefit of the doubt on things.
tamied
@lamh35: Thank FSM that he’s our president. I just hope we can keep him.
mechwarrior online
@Villago Delenda Est:
Oh I know, I’m just baffled that they’d bother to tie rape into this mess.
Applejinx
@Linda Featheringill: If there was coordination with the Romney campaign, the answer to your question is this:
The desired outcome was an attack on American diplomatic outposts in hopes of provoking a conciliatory response from Obama, which would then be spun as ‘making apologies for America’, an already existing Republican talking point.
Two possibilities:
1: Romney campaign had only tangential awareness of this massive trolling of Muslims, a tip-off that it was going to be done, and thus prepared their own political attack. Romney’s smugness in this interpretation is down to his basic personality and belief that doubling down would carry the day.
2: read the comment from @max. “The fact that the attackers were flashing V-for-victory signs is very very very curious. Particularly since we have no one claiming credit.” If this was a false flag attack, it is both feasible for a political operator with a LOT of money to get together, and casts a really alarming light on Romney’s smugness and determination to stick to his political angle. In this scenario, Romney has to stick with the all-out attack and his talking points at all costs, no matter who in the traditional Republican party objects, because he’s wildly off the reservation (or some of his backers are and he’s complicit). If this is the one, you’ll see more establishment Republicans breaking ranks, and the Romney people will get really shrill about it. If Romney backs down it’s some indication that he’s not complicit- there’s almost no legitimate reason for him not to back down in some way.
An operation of this nature would involve on one hand a bullshit antiMuslim movie made by total ciphers and faceless money sources, but with a budget big enough to appear legit on first glance, and on the other hand more money to hire off a bunch of gunmen in the Middle East under cover of the angry mob that can be trusted fairly well to go along with the provocation.
You can be complicit in a thing like this without being the ringleader or in control of all aspects of it- my question is to what extent is Mitt Romney playing along with something he expected to happen or was led to believe would happen, using a tactic that he believes is sure to work.
This is the October Surprise, a month early.
KG
@LD50: I’ve been saying that since the first debates when I realized Huntsman had no chance. But I’m clearly a RINO at this point, so it means next to nothing.
Culture of Truth
@eric: He was the best damn OD they ever had!
Seth Owen
If it turns out this “Sam Bacile” character isn’t even Jewish, won’t this qualify as a “twofer” — anti-Muslim AND anti Semitic (Blaming the Jews)?
Kind of reminds me of those occasional fake crimes that are always blamed on some “black guy.”
There should be some real digging into this for possible criminal conduct.
MikeJ
@Applejinx: Please stop with the dumb ass conspiracy theories. Leave that shit to the Freepers.
trollhattan
Chill, homies, Willard’s “got this.”
http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/607/large/mittchillout1.jpg?1342200689
dmsilev
@lamh35:Obama:
The President then paused to pull his stiletto out of Romney’s heart.
Dennis SGMM
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Because the trailer for that thing resulted in deaths, I would hope that the FBI is working to find out who actually made it and that information will become public knowledge.
Davis X. Machina
@tamied: Rape, but not taxes…. that is odd.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@jayjaybear:
Part of the Goonswarm from EVE Online, which is just as bad for Sammy’s chances of staying hidden.
Applejinx
Also, that movie is fairly expensive but poorly produced greenscreen. There’s no way any of it was location shooting. I don’t think there’s any actual movie at all- the whole thing is a dirty trick from the word go. There is no ‘anti muslim filmmaker in secrecy’. There is no movie.
Emma
@mechwarrior online: Jesus Christ on a Harley. They really, really can’t think beyond the next second. Way to go, Senator. Considering your party’s problems with women that’s one metaphor that should have stayed behind your teeth.
lamh35
Obama to CBS News, when asked if Romney’s remarks were irresponsible: “I’ll let the American people judge that.
dmsilev
@? Martin:
Remember, the Villagers fetishize ‘civility’. By getting ugly partisan politics all over the still-warm bodies of American diplomats, Mitt committed a grave sin against civility.
? Martin
And Larison piles on.
Keep digging Willard.
jl
@dmsilev: Also embarrassed them by forcing them to call BS on lies that the public would care about and remember. They do not like incivility and they do not like being put on the spot in public.
Now looks like Mitt’s incoherent flip flopping will continue (Edit: just read that Mitt condemned the Bacile film! He cannot even take his own advice for three or four hours?), on something the public will want to follow and make sense of. So the corporate hack media celebs will have sort through that in public.
Three strikes right there. Bad blood arisin’.
Elizabelle
Getting past the distaste for Romney and Preibus antics and settling into real grief for the loss of Ambassador Stevens, Sean Smith (father of “2 young children”), and two other Americans dead to this madness.
All too young, too talented, and too gone before their times.
KG
@lamh35: I’m going to go with an analogy for a game that has recently been ruled a game of skill rather than a game of chance by a judge…
Obama strikes me as a cerebral player, the type who thinks out his moves and considers the type of hands that his opponents might have before making a move. Very calculated and what most players would call the right way to play.
Romney strikes me as the maniac, the type who thinks he can just bet big and make everyone go away, who looks at a hand and sees a winner no matter what the odds actually are. Seven-duece offsuit? Raise! Gut shot straight draw? Raise! Bottom pair with no kicker? Raise! Somebody raised behind me? Re-raise! It’s a strategy that can work, but only if you’re very smart about it and have a big bankroll – usually though, you end up being a donkey.
Maniac-donkeys do well in the short term, they get lucky, flop two pair against an overpair, chase an idiot flush draw and make two pair instead. But eventually the donkey gets stuck in the mud, they run out of luck and piss away all their chips.
Romney is in the middle of an epic melt-down. He’s not quite on tilt, but his plays aren’t working, and it’s only a matter of time until he is tilting.
kindness
I have to say this morning, most sites where rightwingnutz go that I do too (NPR, Selected WaPo writers) the righties were quiet and seemed to understand the enormity of Mitt’s fail. But as the day has progressed, I see the frantic mail-lists must have had their effect as now I’m seeing hoards of morons all saying the same thing which is essentially Mitt is right! Obama is fail (Kenyan, Muslim, evil, etc).
I find this so disheartening. It pains me that so many Americans (or so few Americans and their sock puppets) exist here.
When Obama wins come 11/7, we all better be careful where we are. There are bound to be wackos out there looking for vengence and headlines.
wrb
@Amir Khalid:
‘sa M. Bacil
Waldo
@Jewish Steel: That’s what I’ve been thinking — he can’t pivot to the center (or shake the Etch-a-Sketch) because he’s still shoring up support from the rabid right. He’s toast.
Litlebritdifrnt
From Twitter just now
Shawn in ShowMe
When you have the kind of money that Adelson or the Koch brothers do, financing small-scale international murder is child’s play. They also have the money to cover up their tracks so even if they are responsible, we’ll never know. But one thing’s for sure, this episode doesn’t pass the smell test. It reeks of conspiracy.
Elizabelle
Reuters item, in its entirety:
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@KG:
FTFY
Applejinx
@MikeJ: I stand by some form of my dumb-ass conspiracy theory. Remember the sort of people we’re dealing with, the fact that their primary resource is money and the ability to spend it on advertisements and video productions, and the reality that in places like these Middle Eastern countries you can buy whatever you want for the other end of the operation.
Show me the real movie, if this wasn’t an elaborate hoax. Show me why you’d spend this kind of money on a hoax (and not a movie) if not to execute on a plan.
Tell me why Mitt Romney is so smug about all this and full of smiles.
bmwash374
@Schlemizel: Trading Places! ROTFLMAO!!!
? Martin
@Dennis SGMM: I’m skeptical. I think the video was just an excuse for a fringe group to do something on 9/11. I don’t think they generally give a shit, except to try and sucker some rubes into making their protests a bit larger.
Applejinx
@jl: Did he now? To what extent does it read that he’s trying to distance himself from the film itself? On what grounds? This whole business stinks on ice.
The whole thing is SOMEBODY’S idea of an October Surprise. There’s no fucking film. Terry Jones probably has no idea what he’s ‘endorsed’ and just reacted predictably when asked to endorse an ‘anti-muslim’ film.
@KG: I think somebody told Romney, “We’re going to cheat. It’s going to work. Ask no questions, and when the time comes, say this.”
KG
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): well, that’s what the analogy was going for
Amir Khalid
The Washington Post has posted an editorial basically saying “Shame on you, Mitt Romney.”
Jennifer Rubin dissents:
Eric S
@LD50:
“He still thinks âstroke the base harder and harder til Election Dayâ is the way to win.”
I believe this is a conscious strategy on RMoney’s part. I think he’s going for the win by creating an enthusiasm gap. Most self described independents aren’t. Recent presidential elections indicate the electorate is pretty closely split 50/50. If he can get more of his half to show up than Obama can he can with the election.
It may not be a winning strategy in the end but that’s what I see going on.
wrb
@Applejinx:
If it was planned for the benefit of Mitt and/or Israel someone’s got to be really pissed at Mitt for fumbling the handoff.
PreservedKillick
@KG:
No, Romney has been living in a world of yes-people. He’s never had anyone truly oppose him or call him on his bullshit. What we are seeing amounts to his political glass jaw; what he’s doing makes perfect sense to him – and I’m sure he fully expects the little people to just play along. They always have, right?
Hubris.
Couple this with the winger echo-chamber, a world in which Obama is truly stupid, in which Obama has exploded government size and power, in which the deficit is Obama’s fault, in short a world that is basically a wild fantasy and you have a really interesting dynamic.
He won’t just melt down, he’ll explode.
If I were the republican leadership, I’d be seriously working to rein him in – and I’d think long and hard about ditching him and shoring up my down-ticket races.
The smirk pic alone should convince them that it’s time.
Forget winning. It’s time to contain the collateral damage.
jl
@Applejinx: Daily Kos has the statement. Go look at statement there in its running coverage today.
I didn’t type anything that implied it was a sincere condemnation.
Litlebritdifrnt
In other words he did exactly as POTUS said, he shot first and aimed later. Game, set, match.
FormerSwingVoter
@Dennis SGMM:
The worst part is that the Arabic-subtitled version was posted by the original guy. Yeah. He wasn’t getting enough attention for it, so he directly targeted the people that would be most offended by it.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/201291214042970150.html
4tehlulz
Why is this whole film business reminding me of “The Producers”?
Culture of Truth
@dmsilev: Remember when Obama swatted that fly?
Villago Delenda Est
@Applejinx:
Right now, the political effect is to cause entire swaths of the establishment, both media and political, to distance themselves from Rmoney.
This cannot be the effect that Rmoney backers were expecting.
It may be that this was an attempt to create a foreign policy crisis, but Rmoney is not competent enough to take the ball he’s been handed. He’s fumbled it, badly, and furthermore, he’s fucked up the tackle of the guy who recovered the fumble, who is now doing a cha cha into the endzone.
Culture of Truth
Remember, the Villagers fetishize âcivilityâ.
That’s very true. They live there, work, hang out together, while Presidents come and go.
Maude
@MikeJ:
Thanks.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@KG: It just sounded funny to me having him say it during the game. I also imagine David Koch saying “Damn it, who forgot to change his software?”
rlrr
@Waldo:
I hear a fat lady singing…
Villago Delenda Est
@4tehlulz:
That is a pretty good assessment of what the hell is going on here.
Suffern ACE
@hueyplong: Romney – fucked by trying to win the news cycle through making a statement before anyone else. So Weber – its about Romney because he wanted it be about him. Next…
Ann Rynd
@Culture of Truth: Didn’t swat. Caught.
BTW: Jennifer Rubin, my girl, the lunatic said:
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@? Martin:
__
It isn’t just even the liberal Daniel Larison, either. At TAC (theamericanconservative) it is Beat-Romney-like-rented-mule day today.
Scott Gallupo:
The First Unmistakable Sign of Panic from the Romney Campaign
And then there’s Buzzfeed’s Ben Smith:
“Bungle..utter disaster..not ready for prime time..not presidential…Lehman moment.” And that’s just the Republicans
Wow. Just wow.
Litlebritdifrnt
Again from Twitter (no link yet)
Dr. Loveless
Thing is, if this really is some conspiracy to help Romney, it’s backfired hideously. I expect better from those People in Quiet Rooms, you know?
trollhattan
@Ann Rynd:
Holy crap, that’s phenomenal, even coming from her. Does Willard pay her in Krugerrands or Bain stock? What grit sandpaper is needed to remove the brown discoloration from her
noseentire head? I’m guessing 40.Donut
@Culture of Truth:
It was like a soft, quick tap across Mitt’s nose, as one might do with an errant puppy, more to get its attention than to hurt it. No searing pain, no sting, nuh uh, just a reminder that one of them is actually the President, and the other is not, and one should remember that, before one opens their stupid fucking piehole.
That’s how I see it, anyway.
Suffern ACE
@FormerSwingVoter: Yep.
I also wonder if the attackers want us out or in? One way to get us in is to start shooting at us.
dmsilev
When you’ve fucking lost fucking Fred Hiatt, you know the overweight soprano is drawing her first deep breath and getting ready to sing:
Mnemosyne
It’s starting to look like this was an al-Qaeda operation to assassinate the US ambassador in Libya that used the protests as a cover, at least according to some of CNN’s sources:
Pentagon to review video of Libya attack
This whole thing smelled fishy last night, and the odor is just getting worse and worse. At best, Mitt got suckered by someone else’s false flag operation.
Villago Delenda Est
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Yup.
He’s proven Obama’s point, with his own actions.
The stupid. It BURNS!
1badbaba3
@Amir Khalid: Mitt and Jenny, sittin’ in a treeâŠ
@Culture of Truth: Didn’t he catch it? Much tougher.
Applejinx
@Litlebritdifrnt: THIS was its only purpose- whoever the shadowy checkbook is behind it.
Right now I interpret Mitt’s smirking and prepared statements about how Obama was apologizing for America etc. as evidence someone told him something was going to happen, and what to say when it did.
It would honestly surprise me if he was planning the seamier side of it (whether or NOT the actual attackers were false-flag paid mercs). I think somebody with access to a bunch of money, a television studio, and greenscreen, put together the trailer, and I am shall we say real skeptical that there’s any real movie at all. Hell, the lipsynch looked atrocious- is there Arabic dialogue that’s dubbed over what the visible ‘actors’ were really saying?
Mitt cannot coordinate even such a lame project, he delegates. Either he delegated somebody to work on unspecified october-surprise projects, or his backers tipped HIM off that something was going to happen and that he’d better be quick to capitalize on it before he lost the news cycle.
Todd
@Villago Delenda Est:
I’ve got about a half dozen names in mind from my days of mingling with real life FReaks who could pull off something this fucking stupid.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@MikeJ:
There is no question there is a conspiracy here; false names, non existent movie, “spontaneous” attacks when one is everything but. The real question is who are the conspirators? It is some group of religious extremists looking for a religious war or is it something more?
Villago Delenda Est
@dmsilev:
HOLY FLURKING SCHNIT!
Fred Hiatt, of all people, is criticizing Rmoney?
Turn out the lights. The party’s over.
Culture of Truth
It’s starting to look like this was an al-Qaeda operation to assassinate the US ambassador in Libya that used the protests as a cover
Yes indeed. I mean, it was 9/11, correct.
Shawn in ShowMe
@Mnemosyne:
Doesn’t smell like al-Quaeda. They would be enthusiastically taking credit for this.
SatanicPanic
@Ann Rynd: Well, you kinda had to see that coming.
Poopyman
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Well, that was the Al Qaeda #2’s job, but he got blowed up.
Culture of Truth
@1badbaba3: No, that was the Karate Kid.
Suffern ACE
@Shawn in ShowMe: They would take credit for both…that whole – we can still operate in multiple countries – would be a PR coup.
Violet
@PreservedKillick:
I keep wondering if they’ll do this. Mitt is SUCH an awful candidate. Everyone hates him, from the media to other Republicans. They’d have a better chance if they just put Santorum or Ryan up there on the top of the ticket.
Suffern ACE
@Shawn in ShowMe: They would take credit for both…that whole – we can still operate in multiple countries – would be a PR coup.
Violet
@PreservedKillick:
I keep wondering if they’ll do this. Mitt is SUCH an awful candidate. Everyone hates him, from the media to other Republicans. They’d have a better chance if they just put Santorum or Ryan up there on the top of the ticket.
Mnemosyne
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Not necessarily. If this was supposed to be a false flag operation that would goad the US into doing something stupid in addition to the assassination itself, the last thing they would want to do would be to pop out and say, “Surprise! It was us all along!”
Whatever it was, it sure as hell was not a spontaneous demonstration that got out of hand.
Poopyman
@Poopyman: I couldn’t resist the crack, but it’s somewhat germane to my real point, which is that Al Qaeda has been franchised to several places across North Africa and the Middle East, and some of these new locales like Libya don’t really have their own infrastructure in place, or perhaps are prone to making a newby mistake like not having the taking-credit video ready.
Mnemosyne
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Not necessarily. If this was supposed to be a false flag operation that would goad the US into doing something stupid in addition to the assassination itself, the last thing they would want to do would be to pop out and say, “Surprise! It was us all along!”
Whatever it was, it sure as hell was not a spontaneous demonstration that got out of hand.
jl
TPM has a time line
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/a-timeline-of-the-attacks-in-libya-and-egypt—-and-the-responses.php
schrodinger's cat
I am not a conspiracy theorist, but something about this whole Syrian Consulate attack does not add up. The fake movie, Romney’s smirking press conference. I hope that FBI gets to the bottom of this and soon.
raven
Caught a few minutes of Hannity and Ollie. They are flipping out about an open mic that “caught” reporters colluding to actually ASK Mitt questions in the presser!
raven
Halperin back on “BOTH SIDES”.
Josh G.
Regarding Sean Smith’s Wikipedia article: The offending edit is recorded here in the article history. It was made by an anonymous user from the IP address 200.72.24.13, apparently from a Chilean mobile phone (according to the WHOIS records). This edit was removed by a different user 3 minutes after it was made. This kind of vandalism, on any article, is not particularly unusual.
MikeJ
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: When people starting talking about how Romney financed the movie as a cover for terrorists attacks they should really just shut the fuck up. It’s moronic to imply that Romney was involved in killing US diplomats. It makes the speaker look unhinged, and it makes the people who hang around with that speaker look equally stupid.
The guy who made the movie used a pseudonym. So what? Right wingers always talk big they’re all a bunch of fucking kittycats[1]. You wouldn’t expect any of them to have the balls to publicly stand by their words would you? It’s a long, long, long jump from cowardly shit stirrers to Romney assassinating FSOs.
[1]FYWP.
LD50
@Eric S: “Recent presidential elections indicate the electorate is pretty closely split 50/50. If he can get more of his half to show up than Obama can he can with the election.”
If Romney still thinks that, he hasn’t been looking at the electoral vote maps.
Violet
@dmsilev:
That soprano has both feet on the stage and only a few people can’t quite yet see her step out from behind the curtain. Everyone else in the audience is already applauding her appearance.
Applejinx
@Shawn in ShowMe: Yes. It’s a military-style operation according to the Pentagon/’U.S. officials’, coordinated with the protests over the ‘film’ used as a smokescreen.
The purpose of killing the American diplomats amidst a protest about an anti-Muslim film is to pin the killing on the Muslims angrily protesting.
The purpose of THAT is to provide an example of Muslims running amok and murdering American diplomats.
One expected response from the Obama White House- a conciliatory, non-belligerent reaction designed to help settle down the violence. This is easy to predict and in fact sort of happened, but without ‘apologizing for America’ per se.
The purpose of coordinating the killing of American diplomats while expecting a conciliatory reaction from the President- is to feed Mitt Romney an opportunity to accuse him of making apologies for America, and set up the MSM to predictably get into another grand round of ‘Is the President making apologies for America on the occasion of the brutal killings of our citizens? Some say…’
The ‘cui bono’ question is not subtle or difficult. All this is completely in line with known behaviors and attitudes- and reasonable expectations of all parties concerned, from Obama to the MSM.
Mitt fucked it up (possibly because he’s not really in on too many of the details). He thought he’d been handed a surefire October Surprise, and either knew about it or didn’t give a shit where it came from at this point. He smirked and smugged and doubled down in his arrogant way, believing he could brazen his way through and that the media would have his back.
Unfortunately, murdering American diplomats is not something you should smile about even if- or especially if- you stand to gain politically from it, or THINK you surely will stand to gain politically from it.
Brachiator
The strange thing about Romney is that he seems to be incapable of admitting an error or even a misstatement. Even when he walks back a position, he feverishly denies any contradiction or reversal, and continues to plow ahead.
Yeah, this is common to many politicians. But Romney is so blatant about it, and has to do it so often, that he is just looking like a fool.
Compounding this is his “how dare you question me” aristocratic bluster, the airy pretense that he has total command of the facts, understands the situation perfectly, when he is actually and totally clueless.
And still the 27 percenters cling desperately to Mittens’ candidacy. It’s one thing for these people to vote against their own interests.
Are they really so blind and afraid of Obama that they would vote for a dolt like Romney despite the increasing evidence that the man is a total buffoon likely to lead the country into disastrous foreign policy blunders?
Schlemizel
@Dennis SGMM:
Why would the FBI get involved? What law was broken?
This “trailer’ BS is getting to be a pretty common tactic. This Paultard I work with has gone on and on about a couple of ‘movies’ about the black helicopters and on and on. He gives very elaborate descriptions of scenes that have never been filmed. They are a couple of ‘trailers’ with lots of ominous music and some silly theories. The fevered brains of the wingnutati fill in the blanks.
Schlemizel
@bmwash374: Thanks I was afraid there for a while that nobody caught that!
ericblair
@Violet:
Well, that ship has sailed. With a normal candidate, I suppose the Powers That Be could buy off the candidate to sit in the corner and lose gracefully and not fuck up the downticket races. Trouble is, Romney doesn’t need anything from the Powers That Be, and furthermore I don’t think there are any sane, rational Powers That Be any longer. You’ve got the Kochs and Adelson. Romney is here for the duration.
I’m quite willing to believe there was a false flag attack, considering the nonexistent filmmaker, possibly nonexistent film, and standby goons to exploit the crowd reaction. I can’t see Romney having any hand in this or being tipped off. His “apologizing for America” blather is part of his stock speech and would be the first go-to line he’d come up with, and The Smirk meant that he thought he got off a good one against Obama. He’s a sociopathic asshole businessman, not a sociopathic asshole international terrorist.
NonyNony
@Brachiator:
Yes. Fear and resentment is a helluva drug cocktail.
Applejinx
@MikeJ: No no, Mike.
Romney being given the opportunity to CAPITALIZE on the killing of American diplomats, and being clearly delighted at the opportunity ‘fate’ provided him- AND clearly operating with some kind of foreknowledge that led him to jump way ahead of the news cycle in an attempt to establish the spin that would be used.
Never said Romney paid for it. I doubt the hell out of that. I’d want to look closely at some of the Tea Party billionaires, and I’d want to look closely at some of the Israeli factions (which are very, very capable of playing such dirty tricks) who would stand to benefit hugely from Romney being elected, and who aren’t as dumb as the Tea Party folks but are way more desperate for they face existential threats (the Tea Party guys only think they do).
Since you didn’t ask me, but are just telling people I think Romney is Ernst Blofeld and planned all this, I will say ‘nope’ and call it thusly:
The movie: Tea Party billionaires with access to television production equipment and professional greenscreen (but no great skill at using it).
The murders: military-style assault under cover of the Muslim protests, coordinated with whoever was running the movie end of things, and either hired mercenaries or the actions of rogue foreign intelligence operatives. Some of the hard right wing in Israel stand to gain by this and have all the resources.
The Mitt: an arrogant stooge who thinks he’s running the show, who was tipped off that something was going to happen in time enough to prepare his talking points and get smug about them, who lacks the humanity to identify that he was making a horrendous gaffe and the humility to react quickly when challenged by pretty much the whole American government and media to roll back his stupid political remarks.
Want to know how much Mitt knows about this movie? Watch to see how hard he tries to distance himself from specifically it. If he clings to defending it in any way, he probably doesn’t even know it was a total hoax from the start. If he frantically disassociates himself from the movie itself, that would be real interesting.
dedc79
@mechwarrior online: But we didn’t get pregnant from it, so clearly it wasn’t rape….
Chris
@Emma:
Actually, I think he probably thought that’s why it would be a good analogy. Because it would show that Republicans care and think that rape-victim-blaming is a bad thing.
Todd
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Looks like one of those half-assed performance pieces that wingnut megachurches like to put on at Easter and Christmas.
Thing is, I think I recognize that old lady at the end of the trailer, probably from some FReak event way back when.
Shawn in ShowMe
@ericblair:
But isn’t holding a press conference where he actually takes questions from the MSM a drastic departure for a guy who needs his wife alongside to take on Dancing Dave? Those are the actions of a guy who was expecting a media opportunity to look “strong”.
Villago Delenda Est
@Brachiator:
You need to ask this?
The man is a ni*CLANG*. He MUST be removed from the WHITE House by any means necessary. Replacing him with a total buffoon, as long as the buffoon is white, is preferable. After all, we’ve experienced the President being a total buffoon from 2001-2009, did we not?
Ash
@MikeJ: Saying Romney is behind it is f’n stupid and whoever said that should be slapped, but there is definitely some bigger ploy at play here.
Chris
@Shawn in ShowMe:
If they’re intelligent, they’re trying to set the Libyan people and the West against each other; the way to do that is to make this look like a spontaneous act by the Libyan people. Of course, they may very well not be that smart. I don’t think we know all that much about the Libyan branch of al-Qaeda.
But the “divide and conquer” thing was a hallmark of the Iraq war (with Sunni vs Shi’a) in that case. Keep hitting an enemy until you provoke him into indiscriminate retaliation against “your” side, which at that point will become much easier to recruit from. (And lead into the war you always wanted).
It’s why I’m sort of wincing at the 200 Marines being sent over. Better than what Romney would have done, but still… Ideally, we let the Libyans clean this up. (That assumes they’re up to it, of course).
Chris
@Violet:
Assuming they don’t just want him to lose, period. Whoever the candidate is is going to have a bitch of a time running AND governing, if he ever makes it to that second stage. It’s been a theory of mine for ages that Romney’s simply being used as a fall guy while the party waits for a better day.
LanceThruster
All I know (really) is that whenever there is some outrage by violent radical Muslims, Bill Donohue talks about how that means people have to stop demonizing Catholics because they’re not as bad (quite a bar to aspire to).
Problem is, Catholics/Xristians have their own history with murdering heretics or anyone else who hurt their fee-fees. Plus, they did not relinquish this power voluntarily (and Donohue often speaks as if he wishes the church still had the power).
As an atheist, I reject everyone’s god equally, but part of the problem of not being able to openly reject gods worldwide, is because of people like Donohue who would want to first make sure the wrong god/right god was specified.
Sure, no one was murdered because of Serrano’s “Piss Christ,” but the hyperventilating over it plays into the mindset of anyone following so weak a deity that their master of the universe couldn’t handle it her/him/it/themselves.
Davis X. Machina
How does it look if you have them in Spain and don’t send them over?
The Republicans haven’t delivered a balanced budget since Eisenhower, and they’re still the party of fiscal probity.
That’s approximately how long the Democrats are going to continue to be ‘soft on defense’…
Chris
@Poopyman:
True. Al-Qaeda started out as a group. Now it’s more of a franchise, a bunch of different chapters spread out around the world who mostly just do their own thing locally and are connected by ideology more than by formal structure.
(Based on my understanding, that’s basically how the Ku Klux Klan worked too. Think the West Wing hit a jackpot with “Islamic fundamentalist = KKK” back in their 9/11 special).
Chris
@Brachiator:
I waffle between whether that’s because Romney is just such a fucktastically bad candidate, or whether the tone-deafness is just a byproduct of having lived in the Conservative Alternate Universe for so long you can’t even process what’s outside of it anymore – not just Romney but an increasing number of conservatives. Palin was exactly the same way.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
This part I get.
Yea, Dubya was a dumbass, but he had the Dark Lord of the Sith Cheney to at least pretend to some competence (and I think that Cheney was a charlatan behind his steely resolve).
But increasingly, both Romney and his little buddy Ryan, demonstrate that they are totally clueless. This, despite all the attempts by conservative pundits to portray them to be manly man-spawning mighty mountain men.
So Mittens lies and tries to give off Real White American Anglo Saxon Better Than Any Nonwhite ™ vibes. And he even gives worrisome signs of believing his own BS.
But you have got to be a truly sad sack to look at MittRyan and actually believe that they are anything other than two sad sack pretenders.
Chris
@Davis X. Machina:
Yeah, I know. I’m just thinking of the effects on the ground. I doubt if they have orders to do more than secure and guard the embassy, so it shouldn’t be that bad, but still.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Shawn in ShowMe:
AQ doesn’t do small targets. They do spectacle.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
Jake Tapper also reports that the Chairman of the JSOC has called Pastor Jones and suggested that perhaps he should pull back his support for this film (which apparently doesn’t even exist).
WTF?
bjacques
@Litlebritdifrnt: I’d like to hear more details from that quarter. If it was strung together from various Christian church video productions, the actors ought to step up and say what those productions were and what they thought they were doing. Especially if none of them intended to portray the Prophet Muhammad (upon whom be peace).
Identify at least two independent productions and you’ve got upport for the theory that this was deliberately faked.
Brachiator
@Chris:
No. I think that Romney is decidely different.
One of the oddest things about Romney is that he watched his father take bold decisive positions, blaze trails, act honorably, and yet decided that for himself this was precisely the path to avoid. Romney saw more of the world and has had numerous opportunities to grow, and he has even governed much more moderately and successfully than Palin ever has.
Romney has clearly had education and experiences and opportunities that Palin can only dream about. And yet he has seemed to be afraid to learn from these opportunities or make the most of them, apart from his bland ambition to be president.
Romney hides from his own accomplishments, lies about easily refutable facts, events and decisions, and does everything he can to try to suck up to people he clearly views as as inferiors.
It’s the craziest thing I have seen in politics in quite a while.
nominus
Rmoney experiences the uncomfortable feeling of getting a boot up his ass:
“There’s a broader lesson to be learned here: Gov. Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later and as president one of the things I’ve learned is you can’t do that,” Obama told CBS News Wednesday.”It’s important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you’ve thought through the ramifications before you make them.”
bjacques
Here we are: movie update.
xian
@? Martin: I agree. It’s like high school and when they have the scent of loser they pile on so everyone will know they’re with the winner and should still be the popular kids.
xian
@KG: Romney prefers the rigged game, the sure thing.
xian
@Villago Delenda Est: one thread I was reading elsewhere compared it to a poker concept of being “on tilt” – I particularly like the pinball machine subtext.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@MikeJ:
I will clarify: personally, I doubt Romney had anything to do with the movie or the assassination plot. I think his campaign was on the lookout for a foreign affairs “gaffe” by Obama and jumped onto this with both feet when it happened. It’s Romney’s bad luck that the “gaffe” turned out to be an assassination plot, not a spontaneous riot.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Brachiator:
__
Family biography is destiny if you have Daddy issues.
__
George Romney was the frontrunner for the GOP nomination in 1968 until he sunk himself by being too candid about how his views re: Vietnam had been influenced by BS. That was no accident, he had a reputation for unfathomable, painful levels of candor, a crippling defect in a politician trying to beat out Richard Nixon in a close contest. After his “brainwashing” comment, GR dropped
something like 40 points in the polls in a matter of weeks. Nixon said that it was the damndest thing he’d ever seen in politics, that he (Nixon) had never seen anything like it.
__
Clearly George Romney’s son has taken this lesson to heart: in politics a honest man is a loser.
__
The parallels are uncanny with George W Bush and the way he avoided doing things his father had done (like raising taxes, being cautious in Iraq), especially things which contributed to his father losing the 1992 election.
__
Dear America: when you encounter Republicans with Daddy issues, run away. Run far and run fast.
xian
@Poopyman: Mossad?
If Romney keeps going down this rathole I’m going to give Obama 40 states in November.
Applejinx
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
What evidence do we have that the Romney campaign is staffed by crack operatives, given autonomy, on top of their games and capable of spotting such an opportunity with no forewarning and springing decisively into action?
Maybe if Mitt PERSONALLY happened to be awake and PERSONALLY spotted the info (from where?) and decided to charge ahead with it all on his own- in that case, surely nobody in the Romney campaign would dream of arguing.
I contest this idea that Romney’s people are able to seize upon new information and act that decisively with it. Mitt wouldn’t like that. They might get christened the new savior of his campaign or something, and look what happened to the last guy to show real initiative- axed.
Still thinking if a major backer came bearing gifts of unspecified PR opportunities in the very near future, that it would be a whole other story. You’re postulating a quick-acting, cunning team of political tacticians with initiative. I think not.
Mnemosyne
@Applejinx:
Dude, haven’t you ever heard of a CNN e-mail alert? Half the people I know get them, and I’m not in journalism. Someone at the campaign (or, more likely, multiple someones) got pinged by CNN, thought, “This is our chance to hit back at Obama about foreign policy!” and ran with it without thinking. The “apologizing for America” attack is at least four years old, so they plugged it in and took off. And the result went something like this.
PurpleGirl
@Violet: You know that at one time you couldn’t have an actor portray Christ in a movie. It just wasn’t done, it was blasphemous. Two of the first actors to play Christ were Jeffrey Hunter in 1961 (Kings of Kings) and Max von Sydow in 1965 (Greatest Story Ever Told).
Applejinx
@Mnemosyne: Oh yeah? Okay, I’ll buy that, if there was such an alert. There’s always the possibility that the Romney people simply bungled somebody else’s dirty trick without being aware in advance that any trick was underway.
grandpa john
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): It is also becoming clearer that these were not simple spontaneous demonstrations but evidence is beginning to show that these were clearly pre-planned terrorist style attacks
JR in WV
FSM knows I’m a cynic paranoid about political plots, ever since I read “7 Days in May” and then saw the movie, which was well done.
And ever since I was a little boy there have been assasinations of Presidents and successful candidates, and other leaders stirring up the underclass.
So.
A fake “film” that horrifies roughly a billion people, who don’t much like the USA.
A “spontaneous” attack on a protected American diplomatic outpost in a newly liberated Arabic nation, supposedly prompted by the fake “film”.
A would be “politician”, Willard, makes a play to attack a polished and successful politician, Barack, based upon the “spontaneous” attack; an attempt to turn a vital election on a dime, an election that looks settled until this event.
Willard drops the ball in several ways, not knowing of the time line, not knowing of the deaths and of the high regard everyone (on both sides of the election) has for the deceased, murdered Amabasador. Then he doubles down, and grins walking away from his podium?
I don’t buy the apparent sequence of events at all.
Willard may not have known much about this going it, but no way he didn’t know something was going down. No way he was ready to accuse President Obama last night in the middle of this playing out.
He knew something was going on, and had a good idea what it was, hours if not days before the stuff hit the ventilator.
And he was too dumb/inept to keep a serious gambler’s face on as he walked away from his podium; he couldn’t help but smirk his little boss’s grin at how well he had carried off that “news conference”. And he had no idea there were still photographers that were going to capture his little smirking grin for eternity.
How inappropriate was it for him to grin about such seriously bad news? Would any real human or competent politician ever have such an expression on his face dealing with the death of an American Ambassador, not to mention the other Americans killed in the “spontaneous” attack?
No.
I call bogus on the whole series, all organized ahead by right wing wingnuts, all of it! Including the spontaneous attack.
And it’s Willard’s fault everyone is figuring it out!! Dumbass!!
Total!!
priscianusjr
@aimai: