Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / More Details on Libya

More Details on Libya

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Well, it seems like the attack in Benghazi wasn’t just a protest turned violent, but likely something more premeditated:

U.S. officials and Middle East analysts said Wednesday that an attack that killed four Americans at a U.S. Consulate in eastern Libya may have been planned by extremists and inspired by al-Qaeda.

…

On Wednesday, administration officials described a fast-moving assault on the Benghazi compound, which quickly overwhelmed Libyan guards and U.S. security forces, and separated the Americans from the ambassador they were supposed to protect.

A lot of new information is coming to light hourly, so it seems wise to avoid making too many judgments at this point — advice Romney would have been wise to heed. But it does turn this into a more serious foreign policy crisis than if this had just been a demonstration.

I’m pretty certain the Romney camp will ultimately claim that Obama’s “weakness” emboldened terrorists to attack us, or some such thing. The world is obviously messier than that, but it is unfortunately true that this sort of argument seems to resonate with some people.

I should note that at least some analysts see the attack as retaliation for the U.S. killing of Libyan Abu Yahya al-Libi in June. AQ leader Ayman al-Zawahiri released a video Monday acknowledging the death of Libi and urged Libyans to seek revenge.

Again, not clear how this will end up getting spun. But it looks like this will be an even bigger issue than it originally seemed.

Reader Interactions

121Comments

  1. 1.

    AA+ Bonds

    I will wait until a less ghoulish time to comment on my statements over the last few months about Libya here and the responses I’ve gotten but I will at least point out that Cole was right because he is too decent of a guy to think about it that way

  2. 2.

    dmsilev

    I’m pretty certain the Romney camp will ultimately claim that Obama’s “weakness” emboldened terrorists to attack us, or some such thing.

    I’m pretty sure that at some point today the Romney camp made that argument. I could be mistake; they went through so many gyrations and flip flops in the last 16 or so hours that it’s hard to keep track.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    We don’t know anything yet. It’s way too soon to speculate about what we can legitimately speculate about.

  4. 4.

    Cacti

    I will wait until a less ghoulish time to comment on my statements over the last few months about Libya here and the responses I’ve gotten but I will at least point out that Cole was right because he is too decent of a guy to think about it that way

    Might as well just spit it out.

    I said at the time that it wasn’t really in our national interest to intervene in Libya. Nothing to date has changed my mind.

  5. 5.

    JC

    THIS IS HOW THEY MADE THE IRAQ/AL QAEDA CONNECTION

    IF THEY ACTUALLY ALREADY KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PREVENT IT.

    If not, there is no reason for us to be trusting government sources about an Al Qaeda connection this early in the game.

    ANYONE WHO WILLINGLY REPEATS, “Planned by extremists and INSPIRED BY AL QAEDA”

    Learned nothing from the IRAQ Debacle.

  6. 6.

    Ann Rynd

    And, inevitably, RnR will compare O’s handling of this with Carters’ handling of the hostage crisis. The R’s will not be ale to resist a bigfoot response.
    After all, David Koch paid for this terrorist attack. Romney just gave it away by jumping the gun.

  8. 8.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @JC: And this is why we don’t use ALL CAPS. Because we look like ZOMG 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB nutters.

  9. 9.

    Culture of Truth

    I’m pretty certain the Romney camp will ultimately claim that Obama’s “weakness” emboldened terrorists to attack us, or some such thing.

    9/11

  13. 13.

    AA+ Bonds

    @Cacti:

    Might as well just spit it out.

    I have been really trying to be semi-Popular-Front-ish here since Ryan was put up as the VP candidate so I will refrain, for now, and let the Romney campaign continue to fumble, something I still almost cannot believe they have done (but I suppose that shit at the convention has got their hackles up about the Ron Paul cult and they will avoid any statements that might point back at those freaks)

    My previous acidic comments are as always available through the terrible search function

  14. 14.

    Tractarian

    But it does turn this into a more serious foreign policy crisis than if this had just been a demonstration.

    Why? Frankly, I’d consider it way more troubling if it was just a few random rag-tag irregulars. One would figure that it would take more than a bunch of overzealous protesters to breach the layers of Libyan and U.S. security.

    Again, not clear how this will end up getting spun. But it looks like this will be an even bigger issue than it originally seemed.

    Huh? Was this post written 24 hours ago?

    You’re not clear on how this will end up getting spun? Try reading the day’s other 86 Balloon Juice threads.

  16. 16.

    Anonymous

    I’m pretty certain the Romney camp will ultimately claim that Obama’s “weakness” emboldened terrorists to attack us, or some such thing. The world is obviously messier than that, but it is unfortunately true that this sort of argument seems to resonate with some people.

    If Romney pushes this line for an extended period of time, 400+ EVs.

  21. 21.

    catclub

    “But it does turn this into a more serious foreign policy crisis than if this had just been a demonstration.”

    Actually, no. A more serious foreign policy crisis is the one where ordinary, unorganized citizens of Libya kill the Ambassador.

    Or where organized citizens of Libya, egged on by the government, kill the Ambassador. viz: Iran, 1979.

    But this case (it appears), where an organized militia kills the Ambassador, is less of a Foreign policy crisis. We and the Libyan government will be on the same side, stomping on the militia.

    ETA: Mindmeld with Tractarian, above, faster typist.

  22. 22.

    Yutsano

    @dmsilev: One can assume that Willard takes all positions until he opens his mouth, then that position will change upon later observation. He’s the Heisenberg/Schroedinger candidate.

  23. 23.

    AA+ Bonds

    @PeakVT:

    What are the French and the Italians doing wrt. Libya right now? It’s in their backyard, not ours.

    If by ‘backyard’ you mean ‘historical target for oppression and misery’

  24. 24.

    Bernard Finel

    @Tractarian: I may have been unclear, but what I meant was how the likelihood that this attack was premeditated would be spun. The other threads, thus far, were all written focusing on these as demonstrations that went out of control. This is now a different issue.

  26. 26.

    Bernard Finel

    @catclub: I disagree. A riot is a riot. What can you really do about it? But a deliberate terrorist attack is going to open up a whole other can of worms.

  27. 27.

    Todd

    Foreign policy is statistical in nature, not about the individual. The intervention was necessary to preserve 10s of thousands of lives, and already has resulted in a peace demonstration today. Further, it stabilized energy markets worldwide.

    Before we start wetting the bed, we need to review that perspective.

  28. 28.

    Hill Dweller

    I welcome Willard or any of the halfwits in the Republican party trying to argue Obama has been weak on AQ and their allies.

  30. 30.

    priscianusjr

    @JC:

    THIS IS HOW THEY MADE THE IRAQ/AL QAEDA CONNECTION

    Look, I don’t know the details, but the two situations are very different. Al Qaeda connection to Saddam Hussein was highly implausible, because Saddam was a secularist totalitarian dictator and the radical Islamists were a threat to him — thus they could not operate in Iraq. In Libya you have a weak, inexperienced, central government that is pro-American and has every reason to be. It is highly likely that Al Qaeda is interessted in, and capable of, carrying out destabilizing operations in that country.

  32. 32.

    Cacti

    @Todd:

    Foreign policy is statistical in nature, not about the individual. The intervention was necessary to preserve 10s of thousands of lives, and already has resulted in a peace demonstration today. Further, it stabilized energy markets worldwide.

    Of course.

    Military interventionism is noble and good, until it goes badly, then it becomes arrogant and imperialistic.

  34. 34.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @arguingwithsignposts: There was also a good cover of Michael Lewis from Vanity Fair. He talks about how, when France and England as him to support a no fly zone over Libya to, get this, stop a ground operation, he had his generals come up with a working plan, and then called France and England to get them to lead it and called Russia to keep it from blocking a Security Council vote.

  37. 37.

    Suffern ACE

    @Ann Rynd: A steadier hand in foreign policy as we’ve ever had. Wait-tomorrow someone will look askance at us somewhere in central Asia and he’ll be calling on us to respond with a military intervention there too.

  39. 39.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    If the Dems hadn’t bragged so much about Osama’s death during the convention this never would have happened. Or so says the nutters.

  40. 40.

    Humanities Grad

    @Bernard Finel:

    Not seeing this argument at all. From the perspective of doves, having it be a terrorist organization rather than a riot is _much_ better for U.S. interests.

    If it was a true, spontaneous riot, then that’s evidence of massive resentment of the U.S. among the Libyan people, and whether that resentment is justified or not, that’s a major problem.

    If it’s a terrorist attack, then, well, that’s just terrorists doing what terrorists do. And there’s a playbook that we already have that outlines what the proper response is (hint for any ex-Bush administration officials who may be reading here–the proper playbook does NOT include invading Iraq).

  41. 41.

    Spatula

    U.S. officials and Middle East analysts said Wednesday that an attack that killed four Americans at a U.S. Consulate in eastern Libya may have been planned by extremists and inspired by al-Qaeda

    But this would indicate a conspiracy of some kind. Those don’t happen, as BJ Bots have long ago made clear.

  42. 42.

    Mnemosyne

    @catclub:

    But this case (it appears), where an organized militia kills the Ambassador, is less of a Foreign policy crisis. We and the Libyan government will be on the same side, stomping on the militia.

    This. This is why the FBI is being brought in to help the Libyan government examine the scene and collect evidence rather than the US threatening to bomb, well, anyone. So far, at least, the US and Libyan governments seem united in thinking that the people who did this are criminals who need to be brought to justice, not that it was an act of war.

  43. 43.

    Suffern ACE

    @catclub: Agreed. Whatever is forming as the government in Libya can distance themselves from the attack and the attackers and we can remain on friendly terms. Or something like that.

  44. 44.

    Chris

    @priscianusjr:

    And that goal might already be accomplished if Romney was in charge. A decision to invade Libya, to cut off all foreign aid, or Zeus knows what idiotic shot from the hip he’d have already taken to make his base happy with no regard for the consequences. At least with this president, sanity still has a voice in the White House.

  45. 45.

    Spatula

    @Baud:

    We don’t know anything yet. It’s way too soon to speculate about what we can legitimately speculate about.

    Waiting for the full story to emerge is not a favored strategy among the BJ commentariat.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    @Humanities Grad:

    hint for any ex-Bush administration officials who may be reading here—the proper playbook does NOT include invading Iraq

    That’s so last decade. The proper response now involves giving big tax breaks to the rich.

  48. 48.

    MikeBoyScout

    Obviously what happened with the deadly and gruesome attack on our embassy in Libya is complicated. That the Republican nominee for president demonstrates that he has not a clue to that and thought it best to talk before thinking speaks volumes.

    Romney is not only more mendacious than Richard M. Nixon he is stupider than George W. Bush.

  50. 50.

    Anya

    You know what’s not mentioned in the Libya issue? 10 Libyans died last night, trying to defend US Consulate in Benghazi. Libyans rushed to protect the consulate but media is invested in the “Muslims attacked America” narrative.

    I asked my dad to translate some of the Arabic signs and he said that most of them say: “we’re against terrorism,” “no, no to Al-Qaeda,” “we mourn the unjust killing of a true friend.”

  51. 51.

    Emma

    People, you’re forgetting something. Obama is COMPETENT. He’s not going to get distracted by the idiots. I think we’ll find that steps are already being taken to deal with the situation promptly.

  52. 52.

    Chris

    @MikeBoyScout:

    Doesn’t have a clue, and doesn’t want one either. That’s what you can take from this if it wasn’t known already. Romney cares about how things like this can get him to the White House. Anything else is irrelevant.

  53. 53.

    Chris

    @MikeBoyScout:

    Doesn’t have a clue, and doesn’t want one either. That’s what you can take from this if it wasn’t known already. Romney cares about how things like this can get him to the White House. Anything else is irrelevant.

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    @Paula:

    I’ll be curious to see what Dr. Cole has to say tomorrow after he’s had a chance to look at some of the breaking news. (I’m assuming that, unlike us internet commenters, he actually has a life and can’t be posting and re-posting constantly.) Obviously I’m not nearly as knowledgable as he is, but I thought his analogy comparing the Islamic militants in Libya to the KKK in the US was really apt.

  57. 57.

    Some Loser

    @Cacti:
    We can take a nuanced well thought out of our foreign policy, or we can throw our hands up in the air and say we’re isolationist. One leads to a better future for all involved, and one leaves the United States ignorant to the outside world eventually leading to our demise.

  59. 59.

    Villago Delenda Est

    OK, apparently the demonstration was inspired by the faux trailer for the faux movie.

    The demonstration was used, it seems, as a diversion for the attack.

    Does this mean the faux trailer was created specifically to foment a demonstration that could be used as an attack to take out the US Ambassador who had been so instrumental in helping the current Libyan government get established?

    Who has motive for undermining that government? How would they go about setting up the circumstances that gave the attack team the cover they needed to strike?

    There was some sort of conspiracy here. The question is, who is behind it?

  60. 60.

    Yutsano

    @Anya: Doesn’t fit The Narrative. The Narrative sez all Muslins are brown terrorist types and don’t you DARE question The Narrative!!

  61. 61.

    Suffern ACE

    http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=17222943

    I find timelines useful. So I’m posting one. I haven’t found one yet for the Egyptian issue that isn’t concerned about who tweeted when. If I hadn’t read Sullivan today, I wouldn’t have realized that the offending video preview was broadcast on a TV station in Egypt.

  62. 62.

    Bernard Finel

    @Humanities Grad: I agree that a terrorist attack is a “simpler” policy problem, but it may be a more difficult political problem. Or at least it has the potential to be one.

    Initially I thought this would be a tragic, but transient development. I am less sure now.

  64. 64.

    El Cid

    @Anya:

    10 Libyans died last night, trying to defend US Consulate in Benghazi. Libyans rushed to protect the consulate

    Clearly Mitt Romney had called them and told them the right thing to do.

  65. 65.

    Bernard Finel

    @Villago Delenda Est: The timing of the Zawahiri video Monday makes this all very confusing. We could be looking at a lot of weird coincidences… but, I gotta say, I think a lot of more information is going to come out in the next few days.

  67. 67.

    Jay C

    @Humanities Grad:

    What HG said. Tragic as this affair is, if it’s the “spontaneous” act of a bunch of random rioters off the street, there’s not an awful lot we – or the Libyan government, who can’t be too pleased with this debacle – can do about it. If it was indeed a plot by an organized gang/militia/terrorist cell: well, the Obama Administration has a fairly well-tried solution to this (hint: the letters UAV are involved): and a record of getting bloody revenge exacting justice on the perps.

    And if the Republicans try to flog the inane “weakness” line (Grandpa McCrankypants’ talk-show blather aside), I have a feeling it will blow up in their faces this time: probably right after President Obama announces that we’ve blown Amb. Stevens’ assassins to Hell by a drone strike….

  68. 68.

    Ann Rynd

    Ok, babies, this is what happened: It was planned in Boston. It was set up by stories that O had blown off security briefings last week, and by rumors that he blew off a meeting with Bibi. It was 9/11 so no other pretext was needed but this phony “movie’ came along and so they used it to get some people out in the streets. The ambassador was not supposed to get killed, just Libyans. The ambassador died of smoke inhalation. OOps, didn’t think of that.
    It was all intended as a September surprise to give R on opportunity to remind everyone about Carter in ’79. It went wrong Because Romeny’s guys went out too fast.
    Neo con New York money. It was all an attempt to turn a jerk into a foreign policy genius. Didn’t work.

  70. 70.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Bernard Finel:

    As my Jedi master once told me, true coincidences are rare.

    Something is up. Who wanted Chris Stevens dead? It seems he was the target of the assault team, specifically.

    I suspect this has something to do with internal Libyan politics far more than we know right now, but of course no way to pursue such a line of thought without more information that we simply do not have.

  71. 71.

    Some Loser

    Some of the Libyans signs are translated here if anyone wanted to see them. People at the Something Awful forums lost a good friend yesterday.

  72. 72.

    jimmiraybob

    …it seems wise to avoid making too many judgments at this point…

    Is it too soon to assess that it’s not too late to bring back the more competent team of McCain and Moose Slayer?

  73. 73.

    smintheus

    What Romney will say is outlined in these talking points distributed today to GOP surrogates and leaked to CNN. Just for fun, compare how Paul Ryan changed his comments during the course of the day to adopt verbatim the new talking points. This canned line is very obviously the Romney campaign’s talking point of last resort to explain that, no, Mitt wasn’t precipitous in barging into the middle of an ongoing crisis:

    I want to be clear. It is never too early for the United States to condemn attacks on Americans, on our properties, and to defend our values. That’s what leadership is all about.

    From the Romney talking point sheet (via CNN):

    Did Governor Romney “jump the gun” last night in releasing his statement?
    – No. It is never too soon to stand up for American values and interests.

  75. 75.

    Todd

    @Jay C:

    What HG said. Tragic as this affair is, if it’s the “spontaneous” act of a bunch of random rioters off the street, there’s not an awful lot we – or the Libyan government, who can’t be too pleased with this debacle – can do about it. If it was indeed a plot by an organized gang/militia/terrorist cell: well, the Obama Administration has a fairly well-tried solution to this (hint: the letters UAV are involved): and a record of getting bloody revenge exacting justice on the perps.

    Oh noze. DRONES! Cue the firebagger/Greenwaldian outrage.

  76. 76.

    Mnemosyne

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The Juan Cole post that Paula linked to at #30 above has some interesting background information about the conflict between Islamists and nationalists in Libya. Stupidly short capsule version: politically, the Islamists are losing to the Libyan nationalists, and they’re pissed.

    ETA: Dr. Cole also says that the Islamists are totally opposed to any secular governance (ie voting) and given the fact that Stevens was instrumental in helping the provisional government get set up, that makes him even more of a target for the Libyan Islamists.

  77. 77.

    salacious crumb

    @Mnemosyne: oh please, you are just pissed with the rebels who attacked the consulate because they make Obama`s judgement on Libya look bad in hindsight….lemme guess, to you, the rebels are racist because they make Obama`look bad.

  79. 79.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @jimmiraybob:

    Is it too soon to assess that it’s not too late to bring back the more HYPERcompetent, FABULOUS team of the felled down a stairway in the White House corpse of McCain and Moose Slayer and newly installed VP Todd?

    Some friendly addenda.

  80. 80.

    ChrisNYC

    @Anya: Well, both Hillary and the President mentioned them. So at least two Americans have. President also pointed out that it was Libyans that brought Stevens to the hospital. It was Hillary, I think, that talked about the Libyan who tried to revive Stevens with CPR.

  81. 81.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Mnemosyne:

    Hmmm, just got home from dinner, didn’t look carefully at the full thread, but that sounds like some pretty solid background info that helps shed some light on all this.

    If the hard core Islamists are indeed on the ropes, this might very well be a desperation move on their part to reverse their fortunes.

  82. 82.

    Bruce S

    “this will be an even bigger issue than it originally seemed”

    At the risk of engaging in GOPeresque horrible taste at a moment when the country should simply be mourning and contemplating with some degree of seriousness this terrible act with such tragic consequences, I can’t refrain from observing – nay, exulting – it is clear that Mitt Romney has positioned himself as the only deserving casualty of this attack – shooting himself not in the foot but in the groin with his empty-suit, anything-goes desperation. The man is pathetic.

    When a Republican presidential nominee with descends with transparent calculation into a netherworld where he’s being considered craven, irresponsibly opportunistic and mind-bogglingly and desperately disingenuous by the likes of Marc Halperin, Chuck Todd, Andrea Mitchell, The Kaplan Daily and a host of establishment GOP foreign policy operatives, the game is over.

    Willard’s secured the Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh base today, and is losing most of the rest of the country that isn’t so low-information they know more about Snooky than the state of the country. Even people who vote for Romney in November will do so in an atmosphere of (deserved) self-loathing. And I’m betting that he’s suppressed his own turnout among the voters who actually matter.

    Mitt Romney is worse than Sarah Palin – he doesn’t have the excuse that he both needs the money and was plucked from obscurity in a 24 hour news cycle to the national stage. He’s been at this new “job” of running for President for something like 7 years. Not only is he bad at his chosen profession, he’s a disgrace to his father’s legacy as a very good governor, a very good man, a quite decent Mormon who was willing to buck his church when they were retrograde on social issues and a responsible Republican politician who put his core values before petty personal ambitions. The son is a disgusting, despicable little shit. He can choke on his filthy fucking money. I hate to say this, but Mark Halperin hit the nail squarely on the head with “most craven.” (Stopped clocks and all that!)

  83. 83.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @Bernard Finel: Know what, though, I’m betting on the man in the White House to handle it. He may have to get the Secret Service to tape Romney’s mouth shut to completely get it right, though.

  84. 84.

    psycholinguist

    I really wish someone in the media would ask Romney or any of his (few remaining) surrogates if they are suggesting that this movie should not be condemned, and if not, why not? What should it then be – celebrated? Because apparently to condemn a thing is equivalent to apologizing for the effects that thing has.
    And if it turns out that the movie was actually part of some elaborate hoax designed to foment violence, will he still refrain from condemning it?

  85. 85.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @smintheus:

    It is never too early for the United States to condemn attacks on Americans, on our properties, and to defend our values.

    I call bullshit on Romney. That’s not what he did. He attacked the President.

    Also, doesn’t this sound an awful lot like “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice”?

  86. 86.

    Mnemosyne

    @Some Loser:

    If you scroll up, there’s a really poignant photo tribute to Chris Stevens that was posted by one of the Benghazi locals, which is basically Stevens interacting with various people around Benghazi.

    He was not a stranger to those people. From what I’ve been seeing, people in Benghazi and around Libya are outraged that he was murdered.

    ETA: Sorry, I meant “scroll up in the Something Awful thread you linked to.” Just wanted to make sure people saw some of the other posts in the same thread.

  87. 87.

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ (IrishGirl)

    “some analysts see the attack as retaliation for the U.S. killing of Libyan Abu Yahya al-Libi in June”

    That doesn’t make any sense here. Terrorists WANT to take responsibility. They don’t try to hide a well coordinated military style attack in a protest crowd.

    And the info on the Israeli who made the film and has been promoting for the last two weeks–strikes me as an agent provocateur.

    Beyond that, there’s so many suspects who could be behind it. I’m normally not paranoid but there are too many things about this attack that just don’t add up.

  88. 88.

    Bruce S

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    The Secret Service taping Romney’s mouth shut would be a violation of federal employees contributing their paid hours to political campaigns – which at this point would probably worth something to the GOP like about a quarter of a billion in Macau bucks from Sheldon Adelson. Let Mitt be Willard!

  90. 90.

    max

    @Bernard Finel: I disagree. A riot is a riot. What can you really do about it? But a deliberate terrorist attack is going to open up a whole other can of worms.

    That’s sorta what I was trying to say in whatever the hell thread that was. The thing in Egypt was a rowdy protest, and some kids got up to the wacky hijinx. No big deal, nobody got hurt, forget it. (Unless you’re a Republican, of course, and anybody anywhere do anything disrespectful must be bombed immediately.)

    The attack in Libya is something else, and even calling it a terrorist attack just confuses things. Al Qaeda’s style is the suicide bomber with a giant truck bomb. That’s their thing, because they are intentionally a terrorist group and they like to watch things go boom on the TV, so they can say ‘YAY! Another good Muslim gone to Heaven, and a bunch of infidels sent to hell’. They’re kinda like neocons in their own weird way. Theater Arts Students Gone Manson.

    This thing is different: it’s a deliberate attack that somebody spent some time planning out, with the intention not so much of protesting but of killing people and blowing shit up. (In the pictures from Libya up on TPM, e there is a very little graffiti (unlike Egypt), but in Libya, there’s just a little bit. Libya is all pictures of burned and sacked rooms.

    That reminds me of this from April:

    5.47pm: . We’re going to continue reporting on this for a while at least but for now, a quick evening roundup of events: Taliban fighters have attacked embassies, Nato’s HQ, the parliament building and the Presidential compound in Kabul in their largest and most audacious on the city in 11 years. Multiple blasts and gunfire have been heard across the city and the attack continues.

    Same idea, but less manpower. Same basic attack plans, same type of target, same weapons. Practically a midget carbon copy.

    The people of Benghazi don’t seem to have anything to do with this, so that implies that the town was infiltrated by the fighters (locals? out-of-towners? foreigners?) who set up for an attack and then went at it full tilt.

    I think it’s different, all right, but anytime an ambassador gets killed, it’s a problem. Egypt… is not a big problem. So I half agree with you.

    That said, the Libyan government says it’s ex-Qaddafi guys, the USG is thinking Al-Qaeda, somebody else in FP says it’s Salafists, but regardless of anything else, Mitt Romney is still a jackass.

    ;)

    max
    [‘BTW, I referred to it as a false flag in the other thread, somewhere – by that I mean that we shouldn’t blame the Benghazis for this, since it looks like some other group just picked their town to take a big dump. After all, the Benghazis asked for American help, so obviously, they’re infidels or something.’]

  91. 91.

    Mnemosyne

    @salacious crumb:

    oh please, you are just pissed with the rebels who attacked the consulate because they make Obama`s judgement on Libya look bad in hindsight….lemme guess, to you, the rebels are racist because they make Obama`look bad.

    Yes, the only possible reason I could be upset that four Americans were murdered yesterday is because it makes Obama look bad.

    Sorry, but if I have to choose between your personal assessment of the situation and the assessment of Dr. Juan Cole, PhD in Middle Eastern studies, I’m gonna have to go with Dr. Cole over the random internet troll. I’m funny that way.

  93. 93.

    TG Chicago

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Does this mean the faux trailer was created specifically to foment a demonstration that could be used as an attack to take out the US Ambassador who had been so instrumental in helping the current Libyan government get established?

    That’s basically the question I was asking as well. I imagine there are plenty of folks working on finding out exactly who was behind this movie. If it can be proven that Islamist extremists made this ‘blasphemous’ movie, that would do quite a bit to hurt their reputation, I’d think. Let’s hope.

  95. 95.

    Jay C

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Really: this is a classic example of (pathetically lame and probably useless) desperation spin: NO ONE is going after Mitt Romney for “jumping the gun” or “condemning attacks on Americans”: they’re raking his smug Republican ass for immediately shooting his mouth off to suggest that President Obama had/has some level of “sympathy” for the Cairo attackers.

    I’m not sure even the GOP Wurlitzer will be able to turn this debacle around: my guess is that Barack announces the blowaway of the guilty Libyans right before the first Presidential debate…

  96. 96.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker

    Just watching MSNBC, they cut to live coverage of a crowd gathering outside the US embassy, by the time their coverage caught up with the news, the crowd of hundreds (I think L O’D said) had been broken up by police.I’m no expert, obviously, but if the Libya attacks were premeditated by AQ, I wonder if Egypt may not be a more dangerous situation over the next few weeks.

  97. 97.

    Mnemosyne

    @Ms. D. Ranged in AZ (IrishGirl):

    And the info on the Israeli who made the film and has been promoting for the last two weeks—strikes me as an agent provocateur.

    That part of the story has gotten weird, too — the evidence seems to point to him being an Egyptian Christian with ties to US fundamentalist groups, not an Israeli.

  99. 99.

    Quaker in a Basement

    I would expect that the FBI would really like to get some answers from the fellow who calls himself “Sam Bacile.”

  100. 100.

    jimmiraybob

    One thing to note is that when Obama says there will be justice, by doggy…..or more accurately, by Osama, there will be justice. Romney would have to have the accountants run the spreadsheets first. And then nothing.

  101. 101.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yutsano:

    I know, what was Obama thinking when he sent a guy with 20 years of experience in the Middle East to be the ambassador of Libya instead of sending one of his Chicago buddies? Doesn’t he know how these things are supposed to work?
    /snark (just in case)

  103. 103.

    Some Loser

    @salacious crumb:
    You have to be some kind of Fuckedupinthehead to make this about Obama. Jesus Christ, man! At least 14 people died during this protest and all you can think about is making Obama and his supporters look bad. Do you have no soul? No empathy? Are you just so emotionally hooked on this anti-Obama bullshit that you cannot at least for one day shut about how much you hate Obama?

    Sorry for the bad grammar, but seriously. You frame everything about hating Obama. That is pathetic enough on its own, but in this state, it is so unbelievably dismissive of the people who died yesterday. As if their deaths means so little to you.

  105. 105.

    Mnemosyne

    Also, too, I just want to state again that I will need a whole lot of evidence to believe that Romney had any foreknowledge of this whole mess when right now all the evidence points to Romney once again stepping on his own dick and screwing himself over all by himself.

    They were panting for a way to make Obama look bad on foreign policy because Obama has been beating Romney like a rented mule on foreign policy, so they jumped at a CNN alert and now they have no way of backing down. Schmucks.

  106. 106.

    nwithers

    I don’t know what happened here, but it stinks to high heaven.

    A mysterious director, who puts forward an el-cheapo movie, funded by unknown parties, that somehow causes riots on the same day as 9/11. On top of that it seems that the “rioters” seem to have been suspiciously well organized. Throw that in with Bibi’s visit, 9/11 in general, Mitt’s general jumping of the gun, and the history of republicans for playing dirty tricks (anyone remember Ronald vs Carter and the back-channel Iranian “understanding”? (and other dirty tricks ad infinitum)). The entire thing just absolutely stinks. Probably rampant internet insanity, almost certainly internet insanity, but I had to say it somewhere.

    I’d suggest more, but all of the tin-foil on my head is making my neck ache. And I HATE that this is even remotely plausible in this world.

    You all may mock at leisure now…

  107. 107.

    The Fat Kate Middleton

    Not mocking. Not at all. The smell is even reaching us here out in the so-called Heartland – and it’s not from the hog farm down the road. Too many strange connections, too many coincidences. Most of all, as you point out, withers, too long history of Repubs playing dirty tricks.

  108. 108.

    Tractarian

    @Bernard Finel:

    The timing of the Zawahiri video Monday makes this all very confusing. We could be looking at a lot of weird coincidences… but, I gotta say, I think a lot of more information is going to come out in the next few days.

    OK; you’re intimating that this was an official act of al-Qaeda. (What lot of more information do you think is going to come out, exactly?) Let’s assume that it was. Why does that make it more politically difficult than if it were just protesters? If it was al-Qaeda, that would show that they haven’t been completely defeated, but everyone knew that already. If it were just protesters, that would signify that Obama’s efforts to improve the country’s global image, especially in the Arab and Muslim worlds, amounted to nothing.

  109. 109.

    Keith G

    @Mnemosyne: My thoughts too.
    @Bernard Finel: Whether or not this blooms into a larger political problem is up to Obama and his ability to communicate (hopefully via an Oval Office address in a day or two).

    I think enough Americans will listen to (and want to understand) what the President thinks about this. More crassly, the voters Obama needs to win do not want war or even lesser interventions (as things stand now). This can be a toofer: Do what is seen as sane/logical and also differentiate Obama’s calm leadership from the fail that is Romney.

  110. 110.

    Or something like that.Suffern Ace

    @Mnemosyne: The odd part is that due to the moratorium on presidential politicking on 9-11, the Romney camp had hours to craft this.

  111. 111.

    catclub

    @Honus: yes, point taken. My point was that it was mob of ‘citizens’ that was backed and organized by the Iranian government. It made solving the resulting crisis harder.

  112. 112.

    Or something like that.Suffern Ace

    @nwithers: Ok. We need to keep the two events separate. I think they happened at almost the same time and involved embassies but I don’t think they are related. What happened in Egypt seems to have been organized by some religious broadcaster in Egypt who thought it would be a great idea to play the damn trailer on TV and invite everyone down to the embassy for a protest. we shall call him a shameless ratings whore who wants to cause violence against the Egyptian Copts.

    I wonder if the reason we think the militia who attacked the consulate Because of the video is that we found about at the same time. The attacks in Libya happened at night. We found out about them at the same time. It doesn’t sound like the Libyans were coming to protest the video. I don’t even know if they were using the protests as cover – they might not have been aware of what was happening in egypt.

  113. 113.

    Soonergrunt

    Don’t leave out the possiblity that AQ or some other group did this as a contract job, like the red brigades/Baader-Meinhoff used to do in the 70s and 80s.
    Even jihadis have to put food on the table, after all.

  114. 114.

    Judas Escargot

    Don’t have a clue who did this, but I wouldn’t rush to assume it’s AQ.

    AQ doesnt do riots. They bomb shit, then crow about it afterwards.

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    @Or something like that.Suffern Ace:

    One of the articles someone linked to in this comment thread (from CNN?) said that in Libya there was a peaceful protest of about 50 people going on when about 20 cars covered in Islamic slogans pulled up and guys with guns got out.

    The eyewitness they spoke to (who was also the protest leader) said he didn’t think they were al-Qaeda, but local Islamist thugs.

    ETA: The article also said that people found out about the protest through social media (I think in both Egypt and Libya).

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    @Judas Escargot:

    Though the Juan Cole article linked to at #30 didn’t yet have the information that the attack was planned and not a riot that got out of hand, it sounds like the local Islamists had plenty of reasons to want Stevens dead. They probably have some al-Qaeda links but, as others have said, al-Qaeda is a bit of a franchise at this point, so it’s only speculation to say that this happened in retaliation for AQ’s #2 being killed and not in reaction to some local event.

  119. 119.

    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason

    @Mnemosyne: Yep. That’s the Occam’s Razor simplest answer. No need of (very interesting, I must say) conspiracy theories when the simpler explanation of seizing the moment and then stepping on one’s dick works just as well.

  120. 120.

    Biff Longbotham

    I agree with Bernard’s contention that an organized attack (versus a riot) is a game changer. You can bet that the JSOC boys at Bragg are burning the midnight oil looking for those who did this and planning some ‘extreme prejudice’ type of retribution. Beck and Limbaugh don’t know how the game is played when they criticized Obama for not blustering about what he’s going to do. The fact is that the US will not allow the murder of one of its ambassadors to go unpunished.

  121. 121.

    Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God

    @Biff Longbotham:

    The fact is that the US will not allow the murder of one of its ambassadors to go unpunished.

    This.

    You can also bet that any links between this odd movie and any domestic groups (civilian or otherwise) trying to foment trouble are being traced as we speak.

    Romney spoke as though he knew what would happen before it happened. And then, later, that smirk…

    Somebody leaked to his campaign.

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