So I agreed to do a question and answer session on the Romney-Ryan plan for Medicare/Medicaid on Senior Citizens Get In Free Day at a local fair.
To promote this the county Party planned to put the Q and A session in the local newspaper, but the newspaper declined to print the press release because while there was a GOP booth set up at this same event, there was no corresponding healthcare misinformation event planned down on the GOP end. Balance. So vitally important.
We didn’t have a Plan B on promotion and we were out of time, so one of the volunteers, Phyllis, agreed to make and pass out flyers at the free breakfast for senior citizens held at the Veterans Building close to the event where we had our booth. That was going well until Phyllis was kicked out of the free breakfast (although she is a senior citizen) for passing out flyers. Phyllis called us back at the booth to ask if they could kick her out and I told her they could because the Veterans Building is private property. Abort flyer mission, Phyllis. Instead, Phyllis told the breakfast workers “God bless you”, left the building, and stood outside it to pass out the flyers.
The people who came by with questions were older than I had anticipated. These were not recent retirees, 65-70, but elderly people. I had somehow pictured this as me sitting in a chair and they would enter the booth one at a time, sit down next to me, and ask the question. That isn’t what happened. A small group arrived and lined up across the front of the booth and asked questions at the same time. Phyllis was supposed to help me with this part, but she was still outside the breakfast, handing out flyers and blessing people.
The surroundings were noisy and I could tell they were having trouble hearing so I spent a while yelling at them, as a group: “VOUCHERS-Romney wants to change Medicare into VOUCHERS- a VOUCHER is like a COUPON.” Eventually, they sorted themselves out and I was able to answer questions individually. My overall impression was that they have gotten the message from Romney-Ryan and media that plans to end Medicare as we know it won’t harm current recipients, but many don’t believe a word of it. Lotta skepticism about that.
I was able to tell them that if they are on both Medicare and Medicaid (or know someone who is) that Romney-Ryan would absolutely matter, because, as Bill Clinton helpfully pointed out at the Democratic Convention, Romney-Ryan guts Medicaid and about 40% of Medicaid goes to lower income seniors and disabled people (pdf):
Medicaid fills in the gaps in Medicare’s benefit package for many low-income Medicare enrollees. These “dual eligibles” are individuals who are entitled to Medicare and are also eligible for some level of assistance from their state Medicaid program. Such assistance ranges from help paying for Medicare’s premiums and cost-sharing to coverage of benefits not offered under Medicare, such as long-term care.
Over 9.1 million older Americans and younger persons with disabilities are covered under both the Medicare and Medicaid programs in Federal Fiscal Year (FFY) 2008. Although these “dual eligibles” accounted for only 15 percent of Medicaid enrollment in 2008, 39 percent of all Medicaid expenditures for medical services were made on their behalf. Dual eligibles also accounted for 31 percent of Medicare spending in 2008.
As often happens at these things, the people who came to talk politics were less interested in discussing the very top of the ticket and more interested in discussing state and local candidates. I would say there that this benefitted Sherrod Brown more than Obama. I was asked to just generally vouch for Brown’s character, which would be odd except for that fact that outside groups have spent millions and millions of dollars running completely dishonest ads claiming he’s a crook.
Next week we have a Presidential-election-year event at the community college where there will be an Obama table and a Romney table. I was at this same event in 2008 and Obama did very well versus McCain, judging by the number of people who stopped by the Obama table compared to the McCain table. I’ll see how Romney does this year.
Corner Store Operator
You are doing God’s work Kay.
Nora
Yesterday when I was phone-banking for a local democratic candidate against a Tea Party representative, we were pushing the medicare line, and a Republican told me, in all seriousness, that these aren’t vouchers. In his words, “it’s more like a 401K.”
Just to give you all a head’s up on the latest Republican line on this.
piratedan
@Nora: yeah, and I’m sure that he’ll be able to access his health care at the bank just as soon as he signs the paperwork and waits the three days for the electronic transfer to take place, less taxes mind you.
Kay
@Nora:
I don’t even know what to do with that. It’s nothing like a 401k.
MikeBoyScout
Thank-you Kay.
For the post and the most AWESOME work you do for all of us.
Ruckus
Obama did very well versus McCain, judging by the number of people who stopped by the Obama table compared to the McCain table.
I did phone banking for Obama in 08. I had forgotten to bring my reading glasses so had to go to the drugstore to pick up another pair. Walked by the grouchy old man’s place and there were 3 people inside. sitting around doing nothing. We had 2 rooms full of people on cell phones, probably 40 or more. There were 2 staffers on computers making lists and removing those called.
If the ground game is anything like I’ve heard then it will be the same this year, with the possible exception of a few pairs of losers on bikes wearing suits.
Alison
Awesome work, Kay. I sure hope there are folks doing something similar in Florida. I mean, other than my Jewish grandpa telling his handful of conservative acquaintances not to be idiots. :P
Ruckus
@Kay:
It’s exactly like a 401K. You put in money, when you want/need it, it won’t be there and it won’t be anywhere close to enough.
How is that not like a 401K? Well not mittens 401K but still.
Paul
It is good that they are skeptical. My understanding of the Ryan plan is that it supposedly wouldn’t impact any people above 55. Does anybody really think that people that are 54, 53, 50, 45 would go along with this? Somebody is 45 may have paid in to Medicare for 20 years and all of a sudden they are told that their contribution was for all practical purposes worth nothing.
If you are 45 and have a pre-existing condition, would good will a voucher do when you retire? No insurance company would touch you anyway, voucher or no voucher.
Again, why would a 55 year old be covered at 100%, while a 54 year old for all practical purposes get nothing? And does anybody really think that this would fly politically?
Good for those folks to be skeptical.
HRA
You have to consider the truth of some people not understanding what a voucher means and it’s not only the elders among us. Most do understand what a coupon means. That has to be made into a flyer all by itself.
You are a shining example for us all, Kay.
Ming
Kay,
THANK YOU for your work, and for sharing it with us.
Kay
@HRA:
We need a better word than “privatize.” I don’t think anyone understood that word. They were repeating it after me like the word was new to them.
Kay
@Paul:
Wouldn’t health insurance for everyone else go up dramatically? Right now, the biggest health care users are all on Medicare, higher cost and use just as a part of aging. What happens when you throw them back into the pool? Doesn’t the 25 year old pay a lot more?
Dennis SGMM
Thank you, Kay, for the work that you do for us. You’re a trooper, kid.
HRA
@Kay:
“We need a better word than “privatize.” I don’t think anyone understood that word. They were repeating it after me like the word was new to them.”
It means from public to private ownership. How to make it a compact meaning in which it will be readily understood is the question. Right now all I can think of is having both definitions cited on a flyer with the way it would impact one’s life monetarily.
Paul
@Kay:
Absolutely. There are so many argument against voucher care. The problem seems to be to make it so that voters can understand it. As you said above, some voters even have hard time understanding simple words such as voucher or privatize.
Dennis SGMM
@Kay:
My guess is that health care costs will go up for everyone, including the 25 year-olds. I believe that the costs are distributed across the entire pool so bringing in hard living old guys like me will raise costs for everyone. Moreover, the health insurers have higher overhead costs than Medicare and they also need to turn a profit. Those last two items multiply the effects of increased costs of patient care.
Anyone with expertise can correct me if I’m wrong.
slag
Maybe a Monopoly-esque game would be useful in explaining the voucher idea. You land on Chance and get a debilitating heart condition: go straight to the poor house; do not pass go; do not collect Romney-Ryan Careless Vouchers.
Kay
@Dennis SGMM:
I just think everything we know about health care reform for the rest of us was predicated on this huge chunk of the population being covered under Medicare. Set aside. Ending Medicare changes the whole landscape.
Dennis SGMM
@Kay:
I agree. My sense is that the VA and Medicare have been quietly absorbing many of the shocks to our weird hybrid system. If one or both is taken out of the picture (As seems to be the conservative’s goal) then the true costs of health care will become glaringly apparent and those who now consider themselves middle class will find themselves shuffling into the ER.
Rhoda
@Kay: Tell them they want to privatize medicare like they privatize roads by creating toll roads. Only, they won’t give you enough to pay the toll of your health care and the only ones who benefit are the insurance companies.
Linda Featheringill
I think it’s great that they came for info on Medicare/Medicaid but also wanted to discuss local races. Bravo!
I share the skepticism that current recipients of Medicare [like me] would suffer no ill effects from R&R.
Villago Delenda Est
I still say, despite all the thanks for Kay and her fantastic work, we don’t thank her enough.
So, I’m thanking her again.
People like Kay are amazing.
raven
Are there any concrete examples that could be used to illustrate vouchers or privatize?
Linda Featheringill
@efgoldman: #21
I would agree with that. :-)
Baud
@Kay:
Turn Medicare over to insurance companies?
CA Doc
Yes, yes, yes the combination of the Ryan plan plus repealing the ACA, is a disaster for everyone not completely made of money. Without the ACA there is no requirement for insurance companies to take on folks with preexisting conditions, so for huge numbers of seniors those vouchers would be worthless. It completely shreds the safety net and the in between generation would be torn between chipping in for medical care for grandma vs saving for their own retirement and their kids’ education. For those that could be accepted into insurance and use their vouchers, their out of pocket cost will increase over time. And yes, adding those Medicare folks back into the general insurance pool will certainly increase everyone’s cost. The ACA is trying to do the opposite, get younger healthy people into the pool. The Republican one two punch is like throwing gasoline on the smouldering fire of our healthcare system.
Maude
@Kay:
You tell them that the Republicans are going to take away Medicare and Medicaid. That is exactly what they will do if the executive and legislative branch goes Republican in November.
There are no ifs ands or buts about this.
They want Medicare and Social Security to be in the corporate profit sector. Ala insurance companies and Wall Street. They would get rid of medicaid entirely.
Villago Delenda Est
@Maude:
Precisely.
What this means for the average American is that these people will take your money, and promise to provide you health care, and then not provide you health care, and you’ll have no way to get your money back, because they’ll also enact “tort reform” to essentially legalize theft for them.
Smiling Mortician
@raven: Rhoda’s toll-road example isn’t bad for its ease of understanding. But really, a good example for something that you’ve been paying for your entire life being taken away and in its place you get a coupon worth a fraction of what you paid for — and without the thing you paid for, you risk a premature and unpleasant death?
I’m having a hard time coming up with a good, clear, simple analogy for that. Unless everyone’s already seen the original Total Recall and understands the concept of buying breathable air.
raven
@Smiling Mortician: I wasn’t asking for myself (I suppose you know that).
Maude
@Villago Delenda Est:
Ding, ding ding.
Those thieving bastids will take every last thing away form everyone but themselves.
Corporate no longer does on the job training and then whines that they can’t find suitable employees with the skills they need and so they aren’t hiring.
Look at what AIG and Wall Street did until the crash of 2008.
Another Halocene Human
GUYS, WE CAN REALLY TURN CLIFF STEARNS’ SEAT BLUE
I’ve already told you that Teabagger Ted Yoho primaried Stearns and JR Gaillot is running on the Dem side.
THERE IS NOW A 3RD CANDIDATE. Libertarian Phil Dodds is now running for the new Florida US House District 03 and his signs are everywhere.
Please consider supporting Gaillot to flip this seat blue!
Endorsed by the AFL-CIO, so please help us struggling working families in tha dutty South get some decent representation already.
Another Halocene Human
Hey, while I’m in moderation for going manic with the linkies, just want to let those who are sending money to competitive races know that the Yoho(Teabagger)/Gaillot(Dem) race for Cliff Stearns’ seat (he was primaried from the right) now has a libertarian challenger to split the Republican vote. (Note, R turnout for the primary was unusually weak, but the small group of ‘baggers in town went wild for Yoho and surprised, well, everyone.)
The new district is about 50/50, technically more Dems are registered but some of them are Dixiecrat legacy voters. Competitive district, competitive 3-way race, and the local Dem party structure are useless pimples on the face of the body politic. Pleeeeeeeease add this race to your list of $10 on payday donates.
Jager
My last insurance company was California Blue Cross, my premium was 10,800 a year. For the 5 years I was on the plan I used an average of 855.00 a year in health care. That was the cost of a physical and the associated tests and I paid 20% of that. Blue Cross paid $680. Blue Cross netted $10,120 yearly on my policy. I paid $20 a month co-pay on my blood pressure medicine (enalapril)and Blue Cross would not allow the doctor to write a scrip longer than 30 days. The actual cost of the generic is 9 a month, I was paying $20. I don’t know what Blue Cross split with the drugstore (CVS)but their net was 11 a month. I now pay $27 for a three month scrip through Medicare and Kaiser Permanente. I just had a physical, electrocardiogram and a complete blood work-up. My out of pocket, $38 bucks. I am so glad to be on Medicare and free of the for profits I could sh*t!
smintheus
Skepticism is indeed in order. Why would younger people allow themselves to be cut off from genuine Medicare, get screwed with vouchercare, but continue to pay to subsidize the full benefits Medicare for those who are older than themselves? If the older generation has the gall to cut a deal with the GOP and pull the ladder up after themselves, they’d better believe that the younger generation will find a ladder and pull them right down with the rest of us.
Thoroughly Pizzled
They’ll take away your rain checks and replace them with 27%-off coupons.
Tony J
@Kay:
Profit-based? As in, these plans put profit before patients.
“Ponzicare”?
JustAnotherBob
@Smiling Mortician:
A possible analogy:
Borrowing books from the public library has always been free.
What is being purposed is to make people start paying to check out books. They’ll be given a coupon that will help them pay for the rental.
But over time the coupon will pay for less and less of the rental cost and cost of reading will get higher and higher.
Older folks understand borrowing books, we grew up depending on libraries.
JustAnotherBob
Here’s how Romney/Ryan screws people over 55.
They role back Obamacare.
The prescription drug doughnut hole opens up once more and sucks in up to $2,930 of their money each year.
raven
@JustAnotherBob: Nice, thanks.
JustAnotherBob
@Maude:
Tell them that Republicans want to do away with all social programs.
They don’t have the political power to do it all at once so the plan is to cut away portions until there’s nothing left. This voucher plan is just the start.
If they get more power they will take away from the people over 55 and the people over 65 in a heartbeat.
That is the Republican agenda.
rikyrah
Kay,
you absolutely rock. thank you for doing this terrific service.
Glidwrith
@Tony J: I’ve heard the tem ‘profitization’ mentioned over on Crooks and Liars as a means to describe the change from public to private. Basically meant to show the corporations will make a buck off you when you can least afford it.
Glidwrith
@JustAnotherBob: Hell, that isn’t even an analogy. They’re trying to profitize the public libraries too!
Triassic Sands
The “dual-eligible” situation is ridiculous. Sixty-four-year-old Americans receiving Medicaid (for example, because of disabilities), will see their costs increase and coverage decrease when they reach 65 unless they can qualify for a number of “patches” that fill in the gaps in Medicare coverage. Only the US would create a system in which something as absurd as that would occur.
Another laughable aspect of the transition from Medicaid to Medicare (dual-eligible) status is the fact that Medicare (a federal program) and Medicaid (a joint federal/state program) don’t operate on the same schedules. So, in the month preceding the 65th birthday, Medicare will automatically deduct $99.00 from the Social Security check of a poor 64-turning-65-year-old, even though the person can’t possibly afford that loss of income. Medicaid, won’t reimburse that $99 until the following month, which does little to help a person barely making it from month-to-month. Everyone knows this problem exists, but nothing is done to remedy it.
In another example of worse coverage, when a person who has been getting medications without deductibles or copays (due to extremely low income) from Medicaid, turns 65, he or she has to switch to Medicare Part D — the state will no longer pay for medications. Then, the person has to apply for “Extra Help” in order to get help paying monthly fees, deductibles, and co-pays. Even if they receive “Extra Help” they are still going to face co-pays that could be as much as six or seven dollars a month for each brand name drug and a few dollars for each generic. For someone taking ten to fifteen medications (not uncommon) that could add up to an unaffordable financial burden that only kicked in when they turned 65. Who would design a program like that? (Answer: some thoughtless politicians who really don’t care much about the plight of the elderly poor in the US.)
Maude
@Triassic Sands:
The Medicare premium is over $100. I’m too lazy to look at the Medicare booklet. The new one is due soon and the premium will be higher.
Lucienne Golla
I am currently reading “Behind the Green Mask: UN Agenda 21 by Rosa Koire. The promise’ of high speed rails is just one small govt ploy to get rural and suburban folk to move into dense residential buildings in cities where they can be more easily controlled. (There is MUCH more being done by govts to forcibly arm-twist citizens out of their private property.) On another front, the UN and American globalists want to wreck our economy so we will be more vulnerable to succumbing to a one world govt. Middle class America currently has too much “affluence” and power. Wrecking our economy will make them dependent on govt services which will only be available in dense cities. So wasting money on the promise’ of outrageously expensive high speed rails kills two birds with one stone.