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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2012 / Sunday Evening Open Thread: Buying Voter Eyeballs

Sunday Evening Open Thread: Buying Voter Eyeballs

by Anne Laurie|  September 23, 20129:25 pm| 120 Comments

This post is in: Election 2012, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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So, Matt Miller at the Washington Post decides to float “A Modest Proposal for Obama“:

After Mitt Romney’s week from hell, Democrats now risk being overconfident. This election is in the bag, many think — and who knows what other unexpected gifts Romney may still send President Obama’s way? But it’s far too early for Democrats to pop open the champagne. With national polls still showing the race close, the impact of the debates hard to predict and more bad news entirely possible on the foreign policy and employment fronts, the White House would be wise to take out some insurance.

Fortunately, I have a plan. Think of it as a modest proposal to clinch the deal. It’s this: The Obama campaign should pay (yes, pay) undecided voters to watch two videos in full — the Romney 47 percent debacle in Boca Raton; and Bill Clinton’s speech at the Democratic National Convention….

…[T]he question is how to take this idea to scale. Former Clinton strategist Paul Begala wrote in Newsweek recently that “the whole shootin’ match comes down to around 4 percent of the voters in six states” (he meant toss-up states, because swing voters in states that are firmly red or blue can’t affect the electoral college tally).

“I did the math so you won’t have to,” Begala went on. “Four percent of the presidential vote in Virginia, Florida, Ohio, Iowa, New Mexico, and Colorado is 916,643 people. That’s it.”

Begala added that the parties, the campaigns and the super PACs would spend more than $2 billion to sway them. That’s $2,187 per undecided voter.

What if they could be had for $75?

That’s the high end of what political researchers pay focus group participants to join a two-hour discussion. Let’s round it up to a million undecided voters the Democrats need to reach, and be generous and make the payment a hundred bucks for the 90-minute video session. $100 million for this targeted effort will be the most efficient, effective investment in Democratic campaign history….

If you’re getting frantic emails from your Fox-News-dependent acquaintances about “Breakng news — the Democrat Party plan to buy votes exposed! ! !“, I guess this op-ed may be the latest source. (Tell them they should never trust self-proclaimed Democrat supporters from the EventheLiberal Washington Post.)

Apart from the eternal quest for the rare and delicate specimen known as the Undecided Voter, what’s on the agenda for the end of the weekend?

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Reader Interactions

120Comments

  1. 1.

    Hypatia's Momma

    September 23, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    Going through the Order of the Stick archives and listening to various versions of Hava Nagila. I think I like the techno mixes by Alex M. vs. Marc Van Damme best.

  2. 2.

    Hal

    September 23, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    Obama Draws 18,000 in Wisconsin While 650 Show Up for Romney in California

    Just saw this at Kos and followed it back to the source.

    Obama spent his day talking to tens of thousands of supporters, while Romney was complaining about not being able to visit his second home at a fundraiser. The right is outraged and claiming that there is no way that 18,000 people came out to hear Obama. They are accusing the media of pushing Obama propaganda. They believe that the real attendance at the event was 5,000. They offer no proof to back up their claims, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume Obama’s attendance was 5,000-10,000. Does it really make a difference?

    http://www.politicususa.com/obama-draws-18000-wisconsin-650-show-romney-california.html

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/23/1135587/-Obama-18-000-Willard-650

  3. 3.

    Villago Delenda Est

    September 23, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    Fox-News-dependent acquaintances

    AKA people to which one points and laughs.

  4. 4.

    dmsilev

    September 23, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    Today’s moment of polling hilarity:

    The president also leads with NASCAR fans, 48%-41%.

    You’d think Romney would be doing better with the “likes to watch flaming car wrecks” demographic…

  5. 5.

    Baud

    September 23, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    @dmsilev:

    I’m sure Romney does much better with NASCAR owners.

  6. 6.

    vestigial

    September 23, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    New PSA from the Undecided Voter.

    Anne Romney also is nicely parodied / sympathized with on SNL’s Weekend Update.

  7. 7.

    JPL

    September 23, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    The President is asked why he will be able to work with the assholes in the second term when he couldn’t the last two years. I so wish he would point out what would have happened if he agreed to their ideas. No health care, government family planning, higher taxes on the poor and tax cuts for Mitt. Just his being in office protects us from the loonies.

  8. 8.

    Violet

    September 23, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    It’s boot on the neck, then take a step time. Crush the Republicans. Grind them into dust. No mercy.

  9. 9.

    Schlemizel

    September 23, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    This is actually an interesting approach. Given how demographic information can be developed and data mining can tell you things about people that they won’t tell you I wonder how hard it would be to pull this off.

    You probably don’t want to announce that it is a political thing. Claim to be doing market research, offer participants an tablet with some stupid apps on it that you claim you want them to evaluate. They come in on a Saturday or some night. You feed them a bit, give them a glossy pitch about how import they are to the development of the next big thing.

    Then ask them to view several videos on their new tablet with different video apps. SOme are nothing others are what you want them to see to drive home the message. They you have a Q&A session ostensibly about the product but driving home the point you really want to make.

    They walk out with a spiffy new tablet & the seed planted in their brain.

  10. 10.

    Hill Dweller

    September 23, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    @JPL: Another complaint I consistently see on the twitter machine is Kroft implying Republican obstructionism was somehow Obama’s fault.

  11. 11.

    Patricia Kayden

    September 23, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    @Hal: How can the Righties dispute something although they don’t have any FACTS to contradict it? You don’t get to make up your own facts, folks.

  12. 12.

    JPL

    September 23, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    @Hill Dweller: Kroft is an asshole but it’s up to the President to turn that question around.

    also, the government wants to be involved in your family planning decisions might concern some folks.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    September 23, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    @Hill Dweller:

    C’mon. So now you’re blaming the Republicans for Obama being black and a Democrat…

  14. 14.

    Gravenstone

    September 23, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    @Hal: Obama spoke at the Maier Fesitval grounds. If the venue was the Marcus amphitheater there, then 18k is roughly capacity. Based on a couple clips I caught on the news, that sounds about right.

  15. 15.

    jibeaux

    September 23, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    Hell, pay me $75 to watch Bill again and the asshole again? I’m feeling undecided already. Both sides do it. I think they both have some good ideas. I’m not thrilled about where we are now, but I’m not sure yet what Romney wants to do, etc. Piece of cake.

  16. 16.

    cosima

    September 23, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Did anyone watch the 60 Minutes with Mitt & the President? I had to turn it off when Mitt started talking, went off to do other things. My husband watched it and said that Mitt clearly had the questions beforehand since he began answering before the interviewer even finished asking the questions.

    So, how did they do? I’m of the opinion, even though I didn’t watch it, that if Mitt couldn’t come up with decent & specific answers that it doesn’t matter if he got them ahead of time. Husband says “but what about people who expect 60 Minutes to be fair?” Does anyone expect 60 Minutes to be fair anymore? I thought they went to hell in a handbasket during the 2008 election.

    By the way, anyone have any good ideas for anti-Romney “vote romney” signs? My neighbor planted two (because he’s a double-douche) Romney/Ryan signs in his yard, and I’d like to make my own. Along the lines of “Vote for Romney, he has a plan that he’ll tell you all about after he wins!” Smart-arse things like that. I know that most of you are far more clever than me, so bring on the ideas!

  17. 17.

    Or something like that.Suffern Ace

    September 23, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    For 2,100, I am willing to be undecided.

  18. 18.

    ChrisNYC

    September 23, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    This is right, from the American Conservative (!).

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/a-democratic-swing/

    They’ll blame Romney, like they blamed Palin. But the problem is the party. The candidates come from somewhere and these crap candidates, from Romney to McDonnell to Palin, come from a party with nothing to offer, except mad opportunities to scam their own supporters. Just nice to see it written somewhere other than a lib blog.

  19. 19.

    Anoniminous

    September 23, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    Matt Miller shouldn’t lose his day job.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    September 23, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    Let’s round it up to a million undecided voters the Democrats need to reach, and be generous and make the payment a hundred bucks for the 90-minute video session.

    Yes, let’s give more money to people who are undecided rather than the people who are loyal to us. That’s a winning formula.

  21. 21.

    gbear

    September 23, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    ‘Eyeballs‘ seems to be the word of the day:

    Stephanopoulos pointed out that many Republicans thought that the Romney needed to campaign on vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan’s budget and release “more bold and specific ideas.”
    “I mean, for crying out loud, we’ve got Paul Ryan on the ticket,” Priebus replied. “There can’t be anything more specific than a budget that we passed to get a hold of the 10-year debt window, the deficits that are out of control that the president promised that he would fix. As far as specifics go, we are the only one talking about how to save Medicare.”
    “I mean, we’ve got specifics coming out our eyeballs,” he added.

    I want to see Priebus on TV the day after republicans get crushed in the elections.

  22. 22.

    Rommie

    September 23, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    There’s been a few rat sightings this weekend, rats that seem to be attempting carnal relations. If that’s not a good sign I don’t know what is.

  23. 23.

    dmsilev

    September 23, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    @gbear: That’s a fascinating mental image. And probably not the one Preibus really had in mind.

  24. 24.

    1badbaba3

    September 23, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    Ah, now the meme shifts to us being overconfident. Not just confident based on empirical observation and actual facts. But we have to be overconfident which is a negative association. We must be cocky, uppity, like it’s a mirage, or we’re selling pyrite.

    Jeez, I just look at the other side flailing and failing daily and think how cool it is to have the Metrosexual Black Abe Lincoln on our side.

    Suck it, tightly righties.

  25. 25.

    Lihtox

    September 23, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    @Schlemizel: A bait-and-switch campaign like that would turn me off a candidate. I’d rather they be open about what they’re doing. Just say that instead of paying the cable companies to show you ads, they are cutting out the middleman and giving the money to you instead. :)

    Would it be legal?

  26. 26.

    Violet

    September 23, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    @cosima:

    By the way, anyone have any good ideas for anti-Romney “vote romney” signs?

    Why bother? Go get a “Vote Obama 2012” sign. Much more effective. Say what you want people to do, not what you don’t want them to do. There’s a reason lifeguards say “Walk” instead of “Don’t run.” People hear the “run” not the “don’t” part. Put up a sign saying what you want people to do.

  27. 27.

    PeakVT

    September 23, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    I didn’t see it, but it sounds like McCaskill had a good debate against Mr. Legitimate Rape.

  28. 28.

    Elmo

    September 23, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    I want to see an ad that says, essentially: Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan want to ban all abortion even for rape and incest. Teenage rape victims and child brides would be forced to bear children under Romney’s plan. Those are Romney’s values, but they’re not American values. Don’t let Mitt Romney impose his values on America.

    Turn the fucking dog whistle back on them for a change.

  29. 29.

    Hill Dweller

    September 23, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    @cosima:

    My husband watched it and said that Mitt clearly had the questions beforehand since he began answering before the interviewer even finished asking the questions.

    A lot of people on twitter are saying it looked like Willard had the questions beforehand.

  30. 30.

    GG

    September 23, 2012 at 10:00 pm

    I’ve been doing the RL thing this pm. My son shares a b’day with Frodo and Bilbo, but today worked better for getting together.

    Beer find of the day was Cismonte Negro Detrigo. It’s a hefeweisen with prickly pear. I wasn’t utterly thrilled with it on its own, but with food, really nice. And my DIL loved it. I used to be a hophead, but I mostly drink dry ciders these days. They’re kind of hard to find though. I gotta get back to Seattle, if that’s the locale of the Cider Bar I read about.

  31. 31.

    gbear

    September 23, 2012 at 10:00 pm

    @dmsilev: The best word to describe Preibus is ‘putz’. He’s a fucking putz.

  32. 32.

    piratedan

    September 23, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    @gbear: it’d be different if their math added up, but when you start realizing who gets to remain at the public teat (oil companies, defense contractors, financial institutions) and who has to sacrifice (your Mom and Dad, you, Mrs Wilson with the Down syndrome kid, kids, the poor, the elderly) you pause a moment and ask why and they tell you that you’re not patriotic enough and must not believe in Jeebus and the holy fetus.

  33. 33.

    Maude

    September 23, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    Matt Miller is dumb and thinks everyone is as dumb as he is.
    The Dem convention is over. The secret video of Romney is over.
    Those things worked once. They won’t work again. Pounding people over the head with repetition only irritates them.
    The subjects in this campaign keep changing and Romney keeps adding more.
    Tax returns have become the boomerang topic.
    The Obama campaign knows what it is doing and a whatever he is, Matt Miller has no idea how to organize and run a national campaign.

  34. 34.

    dmsilev

    September 23, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    @Hill Dweller: And even given that, he apparently *still* managed to step on his dick by saying that yes of course it’s right and proper that he pay a lower tax rate than someone making $50K a year.

    That truly takes skill.

  35. 35.

    gbear

    September 23, 2012 at 10:05 pm

    @Violet: I drove past a mega-church in Forest Lake MN this evening and they had a HUGE sign telling voters to vote ‘yes’ to an anti-gay marriage amendment on the MN ballot this fall. I want to sneak back and put a small ‘God Hates Fags’ sign underneath.

  36. 36.

    Schlemizel

    September 23, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    @Lihtox:
    You would never know it was bait & switch, it would always be about the apps. There would be several videos & not all of them political. It would be presented that these were selected at random for technical reasons.

    It would not be legal if a campaign did it since they can’t give away anything of value. But if you are already going to spend $500 a head you might just as well go ahead and create a front company

  37. 37.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker

    September 23, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    @Hill Dweller: I didn’t see it, but it’s not like Villager questions are hard to see coming. OTOH, given what happened at Univision, it’s perfectly logical to think Willard demanded, and got, the questions in advance.

  38. 38.

    Elmo

    September 23, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    @dmsilev:

    Holy crap, did he really? Yikes.
    And why is my earlier comment in moderation, FYWP?

  39. 39.

    Geoduck

    September 23, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    @Hypatia’s Momma:

    Going through the Order of the Stick archives

    Great comic, unfortunately, the artist just sliced up his drawing hand in an accident, and there will be no updates for several weeks. Boo!

  40. 40.

    TaMara (BHF)

    September 23, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    @dmsilev: I love that. I’m surprised anyone could get past his orange skin. He made Boehner look like an Albino.

  41. 41.

    xian

    September 23, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    @cosima: sounds fun but reinforces the wrong frame. passersby will see the headline, not the joke.

  42. 42.

    dmsilev

    September 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    @Elmo: Yep. Via dKos:

    Pelley: Now, you made on your investments, personally, about $20 million last year. And you paid 14 percent in federal taxes. That’s the capital gains rate. Is that fair to the guy who makes $50,000 and paid a higher rate than you did?
    __
    Romney: It is a low rate. And one of the reasons why the capital gains tax rate is lower is because capital has already been taxed once at the corporate level, as high as 35 percent.
    __
    Pelley: So you think it is fair?
    __
    Romney: Yeah, I think it’s the right way to encourage economic growth, to get people to invest, to start businesses, to put people to work.

    Shorter Mitt: “Suck it, $50K guy!”. At least on this subject, he’s consistent.

  43. 43.

    max

    September 23, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    Tell them they should never trust self-proclaimed Democrat supporters from the EventheLiberal Washington Post.

    Well, you know. EventheLiberal Pundits prefer a horse race and purty speeches so they can relive their JFK crushes and then hop on the Pete Peterson gravy train. (Strange, isn’t it, about how JFK was all about spending the money and our JFK fanboys want deficit reduction as a ‘big goal’? Then they complain how no one wants to Do Big Things. And just you mind if they tried to Big Things, these guys would come out and cry about how we’re in debt.)

    Democrats now risk being overconfident.

    Curious. I don’t remember anybody going on about how the R’s risked being overconfident. I remember them mostly saying we should do what it takes to make them happy. But I suppose if you want drama you can’t let your side like, you know, win. That’s bad! (Perhaps there’s a reason the R’s regard your upper-crusty D types as gullible pussies.)

    what’s on the agenda for the end of the weekend?

    Six hours of trying to run down the issue of this bricked LG phone and it seems my problem is they don’t release the original ROM for it. Jerks. Never buyin’ an LG phone again.

    max
    [‘Digby and friends have gone and got themselves a SuperPAC. Now someone is talking my language. Perhaps Matt Miller could chip in some change.’]

  44. 44.

    GG

    September 23, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    @PeakVT: Headline on yr link: “… tars Akin as extreme.”

    Just remotely perhaps because he’s extreme? He’s a reactionary in the classical sense, but our currently media vocabulary lost the nuances of political description a long time ago. I’d say 1980, but it was probably even before then.

  45. 45.

    1badbaba3

    September 23, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    How can we not be confident when there are incompetent boobs like Aiken, Priebus, j-rube, and Queen Anne on their side? Do they ever talk about their accomplishments, their results, their big ideas? I guess we’ll just have to wait for those to ‘trickle down’ from their eyeballs.

  46. 46.

    Hypatia's Momma

    September 23, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    @Geoduck:
    Well, we’ve gone weeks before without updates, so I’m content to wait.

  47. 47.

    xian

    September 23, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    @Hill Dweller: along with brownfacegate, Romney is approaching one gaffe/scandal/laughingstock moment per appearance.

  48. 48.

    Warren Terra

    September 23, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    In other campaign and campaign finance news, Mr. Romney’s tears are sweet and delicious:

    Mitt Romney, who has been criticized by members of his party in recent weeks for not campaigning aggressively enough and who trails President Obama in polls in most swing states, placed the blame for his campaign’s struggles squarely on the president himself Sunday afternoon.

    See also this, also in The New York Times:

    Low on Cash, Romney Tries to Rally Donors for Final Phase
    __
    Mitt Romney entered the final months of the presidential campaign with a cash balance of just $35 million, racing to find new large donors and rally low-dollar contributors in August even while he raised tens of millions of dollars for the Republican Party.

    Long story short: Romney has never had much success raising money for his campaign, of the $2000-cap-per-person variety, and this turns out to make a real difference. This defect has been masked in the reporting by a lot of $30,000 checks to the RNC that allowed Romney to report a (moderate) fundraising advantage over Obama, but his campaign fundraising defect is now hurting him.

    The two stories I linked to are connected: Romney is claiming that Obama’s Big Campaign means Romney has to spend all his time fundraising – but Obama, whose Big Campaign is fueled by a firehose of small-dollar donations, is achieving his findraising while still doing the President thing. Turns out, knowing all the wealthiest people in the country isn’t enough, if you only know the wealthiest people in the country.

  49. 49.

    catclub

    September 23, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    @dmsilev: I cna think of two followup questions.
    1. But were any of the companies you profited from taxed at 35%?
    and
    2. So why is not not working right now to get companies to put people to work, while it did in the 1990’s when the cap gains tax rate was higher?

  50. 50.

    Linda Featheringill

    September 23, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    FYWP.

    Ate my entire comment.

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/09/obama-leads-by-4-in-florida.html

    New poll from Florida. Obama up by 4 points.

    ETA:
    From the report:
    “Obama’s up 55-41 with women, 67-29 with non-white voters, and 52-42 with folks under 65 in Florida. Romney has a 51-44 advantage with men, a 53-42 one with whites, and a 53-45 one with seniors.”

    I think I read somewhere that Florida seniors usually break 60-40 for Republicans, but I could be wrong about that.

  51. 51.

    Glidwrith

    September 23, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    @cosima: “Peasants for Romney”

  52. 52.

    LD50

    September 23, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    @ChrisNYC: This quote was especially cogent:

    (The Republicans) are running on the presumption that the country has already rejected the Democrats, and that therefore it is their turn. They are behaving as if choosing Democratic governance was some kind of “experiment” that didn’t work out, and now the American people will, of course, come back to their natural home.

    Exactly so. I can’t tell you how many rabid wingnuts I see all over the internet who genuinely seem to assume that the vast majority of the country — everyone but a few faggots, Muslims and commies — hates Obama just as much as they do. If Obama wins by the margin I think he will, these people are going to be totally stunned.

  53. 53.

    dmsilev

    September 23, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    @Warren Terra: That’s hilarious. Mitt Romney is upset …because Barack Obama is campaigning against him. Did he really think he’d be declared President by acclamation or something?

  54. 54.

    Rome Again

    September 23, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    If you see people registering voters, have video ready. This kind of thing is happening. Like I keep saying, they can’t win if they don’t cheat.

  55. 55.

    Linda Featheringill

    September 23, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    @Warren Terra:
    Romney’s complaint:

    . . . and criticized Mr. Obama for, he said, “trying to fool people into thinking that I think things I don’t.”

    It might not be a problem with what Romney thinks but whether Romney thinks.

  56. 56.

    catclub

    September 23, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    @Warren Terra: Sweet and delicious indeed.

    Romney: “Obama broke a non-existent promise in 2008, and I am still upset about it.”

    The Obama team response is suitably tart, and emphasizes that a CEO should take responsibility for actions of his team.

    I smell particular desperation in that up till now, Romney would not give the press the time of day. Now he is in the back of plane trying to be civil to the peasants.

    Schadenfreudelicious

  57. 57.

    PeakVT

    September 23, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    @GG: The point of the article was that McCaskill successfully tarred Akin as extreme – a matter of opinion, of course, but that’s the author’s position.

  58. 58.

    1badbaba3

    September 23, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    @Warren Terra: This must be that bootstrrapping American Exceptionalism of the job creators we hear so much about. Attaboy, Mitt!

    Let him have his day in the sun. In a few weeks he’ll be naught but a footnote, disdained by the 99%, and openly loathed by wingnuts as the cult guy who helped kill their party.

    And it will be so satisfying.

  59. 59.

    Anya

    September 23, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    @dmsilev: What’s up with Democrats fighting back?

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker

    September 23, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    @dmsilev: ‘Twas so prophesied by the Cougar Club!

  61. 61.

    Dennis SGMM

    September 23, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    SNL lampoons the undecided voter.

    I can understand how voters might have trouble deciding – before Nixon. In the years following the differences between the two parties have become so stark that being an undecided voter is incomprehensible to me.

  62. 62.

    PeakVT

    September 23, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    @Linda Featheringill: Obama’s up 55-41 with women … Romney has a 51-44 advantage with men

    Since more women vote than men these days, that’s an even bigger problem for Romney than it first appears.

  63. 63.

    Mike G

    September 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    @Hal: How can the Righties dispute something although they don’t have any FACTS to contradict it? You don’t get to make up your own facts, folks.

    They REALLY WANT it to be true, so that makes it true. Most of us grow past this pre-Piagetian stage by the age of 7. A background in child psychology is useful for understanding the Fox News demographic.

  64. 64.

    Yutsano

    September 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    @Rome Again: That lady was PISSED. And sweet little thing in the video is lying her ass off. It doesn’t take a pause and an umm to say who you’re working for.

  65. 65.

    KRK

    September 23, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    So, have folks seen the OFA video clip of a teacher in Colorado who was invited to a roundtable with Romney back in May, and when she tried to respond to his lecture on what’s wrong with education he says to her “I didn’t ask you a question.”

    He just can’t not be an ass, can he?

    video at Booman’s

  66. 66.

    Dennis SGMM

    September 23, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    @dmsilev:

    That’s hilarious. Mitt Romney is upset …because Barack Obama is campaigning against him. Did he really think he’d be declared President by acclamation or something?

    I truly believe that Mitt thought that he’d be greeted as a savior. He envisioned hordes of grateful peasants throwing flowers in their gratitude to him for running. Like his wife, Mitt feels that we’re lucky to have him. Our ingratitude must enrage him.

  67. 67.

    Kyle

    September 23, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    @Warren Terra:

    Romney is claiming that Obama’s Big Campaign means Romney has to spend all his time fundraising – but Obama, whose Big Campaign is fueled by a firehose of small-dollar donations, is achieving his findraising while still doing the President thing. Turns out, knowing all the wealthiest people in the country isn’t enough, if you only know the wealthiest people in the country.

    Shorter Rmoney: Poor people’s donations shouldn’t count.

  68. 68.

    Joel

    September 23, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    @Violet: Exactly fucking right. This was the problem with Kerry 2004. Too many of us looking at it like not-Bush 2004. Wrong approach all the way. Obama 2012 and let the wingnuts try their nobama shit.

  69. 69.

    Smiling Mortician

    September 23, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    @ChrisNYC: OK, so I’ll admit I haven’t looked at the American Conservative in a long time . . . did they go Little Green Footballs or something? Last time I was there, it was a fever swamp. But the article you linked — as well as every single comment — was insightful. My gob has been smacked.

    ETA: That site may be the home of the mythical “reasonable conservative” you’ve heard stories about.

  70. 70.

    Random User Name

    September 23, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    @dmsilev:

    Romney: It is a low rate. And one of the reasons why the capital gains tax rate is lower is because capital has already been taxed once at the corporate level, as high as 35 percent.

    Nothing pisses me off more to hear someone say that money has “already been taxed” – “MONEY” doesn’t pay taxes, people do.

    See how long you stay out of prison if you used the argument that you don’t have to pay income taxes because the money your employer used to pay you with had already been taxed at the corporate rate.

    UGH.

  71. 71.

    Rome Again

    September 23, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    @KRK:

    It’s his greatest asset.

  72. 72.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 23, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    @gbear: Seems to me that’s in clear violation of their tax-exempt status. Can you take a photo of the sign and send it to the Ebil Gummint Agency that employs our Yutsano?

  73. 73.

    Dennis SGMM

    September 23, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    @Kyle:
    Look for the Republicans to push a bill through banning political contributions by anyone receiving SS, Medicare, Medicaid, disability, UI, etc. with severe fines for anyone who gets caught.

  74. 74.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker

    September 23, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    You have to read through a whole bunch of contradictory Republican talking points, from “we’ve been totally specific” to Aaron Shock’s “The people ain’t ready for specifics!” to get to the best part of this article, via Josh Marshall

    If the Republican ticket loses in November, the rush by Mr. Ryan and other 2016 hopefuls to position themselves for the Iowa caucuses “is going to look like Best Buy the night after Thanksgiving,” said Craig Robinson, a former political director of the Republican Party of Iowa. “I hate to say this, but if Ryan wants to run for national office again, he’ll probably have to wash the stench of Romney off of him.”

    I think Ryan is done in national politics. I’m so old I remember when Vin Weber was gonna be the Great White Wonky Hope of the GOP.

  75. 75.

    Joel

    September 23, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    @Smiling Mortician: TAC has seemed to move LGF. They’re at least in the tank for Gary Johnson.

  76. 76.

    LD50

    September 23, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    @Dennis SGMM: @Dennis SGMM: Or perhaps just a ban on political contributions from anyone making less than $1 million a year.

  77. 77.

    Yutsano

    September 23, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: They may not do anything with it unfortunately. The division that governs churches is really small and (like the rest of the IRS) way understaffed. Not to mention it can be a gray area that the church could fight and win.

  78. 78.

    Dennis SGMM

    September 23, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    @LD50:

    Or perhaps just a ban on political contributions from anyone making less than $1 million a year.

    Of course; it’s for their own good.

  79. 79.

    1badbaba3

    September 23, 2012 at 10:59 pm

    @Dennis SGMM: Plus they have a 9 to 1 advantage in the media AND Unlimited Corporate Cash to make sure the talking points get out there, they all thought it would be a slam dunk.

    Slam dunk. Hmmm, that sounds familiar. Where have I heard that before?

  80. 80.

    jwb

    September 23, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    @Smiling Mortician: American Conservative has been going strongly anti-Romney since at least the convention. I don’t think they are all particularly sane, however, and even Larison, who is smart and really does live in the real world, has this weird neo-Confederacy thing going with the League of the South, an affiliation that will probably keep him out of mainstream publications.

  81. 81.

    cmorenc

    September 23, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    @Violet: One anti-Romney sign that might effectively avoid the negative “don’t” problem several people have referred to would be:

    “$OMNEY”

    or a bit wordier:

    “billionaires for
    $OMNEY”

  82. 82.

    gex

    September 23, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    HONDURAS: American Libertarians To Build New City Free Of Taxes

    Of course, they overlook the fact that they didn’t start from scratch, but rather have all the wealth they accumulated in the current system that has taxes. But still, it will be fun to watch this. Civilization requires many things that citizens need but don’t want to pay for. Have fun trying to have those things when there’s no tax base to support it. I need to buy some popcorn.

  83. 83.

    Smiling Mortician

    September 23, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    @jwb: Yeah. While there’s plenty of GOP vermin deserting the the SS Romney out there, I was surprised by the fact that the American Conservative argument wasn’t blaming Romney himself but was instead railing against a party that has lost its mind.

  84. 84.

    cmorenc

    September 23, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Look for the Republicans to push a bill through banning political contributions by anyone receiving SS, Medicare, Medicaid, disability, UI, etc. with severe fines for anyone who gets caught.

    How delicious and ironic will it be for the Republicans attempts to do this to be quickly, preemptively hooked on the barbs of Citizens United because after all, “money is speech”.

  85. 85.

    Yutsano

    September 23, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    @gex:

    “Once we provide a sound legal system within which to do business, the whole job creation machine – the miracle of capitalism – will get going,”

    I see the flaw in the plan already…

  86. 86.

    SatanicPanic

    September 23, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    Football sucks! Oh wait, wrong thread

  87. 87.

    gex

    September 23, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    @Yutsano: It’s interesting, all the things that they have to have in order for the BEST.SYSTEM.EVER. to be able to even start up. Seems like this thing can’t live on it’s own.

    It’s almost as if…

    Well, it’s almost as if government is responsible for the existence of a market.

  88. 88.

    Smiling Mortician

    September 23, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Hey — did y’all get the OFA newsletter this evening? It’s kind of awesome. Instead of asking for money this time (there’s not even a Donate link) it provides a whole bunch of good information about what my (our) donations have been accomplishing — and also a link to a video of people watching the 47% video for the first time and reacting to it. It’s like the Colorado teacher video. Really good stuff.

  89. 89.

    Yutsano

    September 23, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    @gex: Yup. The government of Honduras has to come in and build up all the infrastructure then the Galtian geniuses come in and kick out all the brown riffraff (what? you think they’d get to LIVE there??) and live in Saint Ayn blessed paradise. Never mind how they plan to get an educated work force for their factories or how the legal system will be supported or how contracts are enforced. This could get entertaining. My money’s on the jaguars.

  90. 90.

    jwb

    September 23, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    @Smiling Mortician: I’ve been reading Larison’s Twitterfeed more than his articles. He despises establishment Republicans more than the RWNJs. I suspect he’s kind of purity troll, however much he recognizes such purity makes for horrible politics. He dislikes both candidates, I think, but he believes Romney is a lying scoundrel on top of it all, whereas I’ve never seen him accuse Obama of being politically out of bounds, however misguided he might think Obama’s position. In any case, he’s quite good at handicapping the race.

  91. 91.

    1badbaba3

    September 23, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    @gex: Jeebus, it’ll be Lord of the Flies there in no time. How long before their Blackwater mercenary army – er, I mean, private contractors start some shit with some country in the region?

  92. 92.

    gex

    September 23, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    @Yutsano: I’m sure the brown riff-raff will be allowed to come in during working hours and do all the shit work that needs to be done. I doubt they are going to want to pay the white men who flock there what they would charge to have to do waste removal or mop floors.

    Brown people who probably are recipients of benefits from the Honduran government which provides them out of their tax base. These “makers” are “moochers” if you look at the entire picture of their paradise. Their city will continually be subsidized in ways that they are completely ignorant of.

  93. 93.

    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason

    September 23, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    @dmsilev:

    because capital has already been taxed

    I love the way he says “capital”. He referred to it the same way in the 47% speech. It just reeks of the Gilded Age.

  94. 94.

    gex

    September 23, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    Debated an Objectivist who called voting an act of violence. I thought of Tea Partiers with “Second Amendment remedy” signs while toting guns. I thought of the “We didn’t shoot, yet” signs. I thought of Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph. Orwell is impressed with your work, Ayn Rand.

    After that I stopped debating because you can’t debate insane people.

    I do not understand how people can get so abstract in their thinking and never come back to earth that they think that voting is violent. There is something deeply wrong with that way of thinking.

  95. 95.

    GG

    September 23, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    @PeakVT: I so hope he’s right! I moved from St. Louis when I was 12. It’s been a weirdly chopped time series of frames watching the Wingnuts take over the state.

    But back of my mind is the mountain-scale moving the Overton Window back into some semblance of alignment with t least where it started. Probably impossible, but Reactionary used to mean something, and it wasn’t flavorful.

  96. 96.

    gex

    September 23, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    @1badbaba3: It won’t be. They will continue to mooch. As I mentioned a bit ago, the unskilled labor that cleans up after them will come from outside the city and be in various ways tax subsidized. I imagine security and police will work similarly. And ultimately that “city” will benefit from the legal framework and the services of the state and the country.

  97. 97.

    GxB

    September 23, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    @gex: FSM on a rubber crutch – this will be entertaining. I’m sure the skyline will be designed with bold, innovative, shapes and forms of a remarkable maverick-ey architect, Darawoh Kraor. And serviced by a state of the art high speed rail only made possible by Yangad Traggat. And at some point they must have angry intercourse…

    Popcorn futures – get some beeoyches!

  98. 98.

    cosima

    September 23, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    @Violet

    I have several Obama signs already, I’m the only one in our very blue neighborhood openly displaying one. But I’d really like to drive my neighbor crazy. Or maybe he’s crazy already, hence the two R/R signs.

    I’ve been volunteering between 10-40 hours most weeks since May, registering voters here in CO, canvassing, hosting fundraisers, you name it. I think I’ve got the Obama 2012 thing covered on this end.

  99. 99.

    gex

    September 23, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    @gex: Already I notice the title says free of taxes, but the article says minimal taxes. Goddamn, this is going to be hilarious.

    These people need to learn everything from first principles. It would be good if they discover some of the reasons we don’t just decide that the law of the jungle is the way we want to run a society.

  100. 100.

    Starlit

    September 23, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    @Schlemizel: There are forms of “clever” that don’t pay off. I for one would remember for years that for a short-term gain, someone was willing to piss me off for a lifetime. Leave that kind of chicanery to people who have nothing else.

  101. 101.

    jwb

    September 23, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    @gex: So how does the argument go? The state has a monopoly on legal violence; in voting you legitimize the state’s monopoly on violence. Therefore, your vote means that the state performs its violence in your name. Something like that? I’ve seen bits of this argument floated, but never the full form. I’ve also never read Rand.

  102. 102.

    Joeyess

    September 23, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    (Tell them they should never trust self-proclaimed Democrat supporters from the EventheLiberal Washington Post.)

    Yeah, that’ll sway those fact immune foxholes.

  103. 103.

    gex

    September 23, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    @jwb: I didn’t bother to find out. If one cannot tell the difference between voting and actual, you know, violence, I didn’t think the reasoning would matter to me. I know the difference.

  104. 104.

    GxB

    September 23, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    @Yutsano: God knows those idiots don’t. Get the brass section ready.

  105. 105.

    Viva BrisVegas

    September 23, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    What if they could be had for $75?

    Sorry to butt in on somebody else’s election, but this is a great idea, but it needs some modification.

    How about hiring out a Multiplex, say 6-8 screens, and offering ten free movie tickets to watch the Mitt/Bill show.

    Promote the shit out of it. Get the movie rated NC-17 (with Mitt and Bill that shouldn’t be too hard) and you have virtually limited your audience to potential voters.

    Put it on all the screens at once so as to eliminate repeat business. Hand out the free tickets at the end of the show, along with lots of voting info.

    Pack up and move to the next city.

    It gets publicity, it targets the crucial young demographic, it even takes money away from bloated TV stations and puts it in the local economy.

  106. 106.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 23, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    @Smiling Mortician:

    plenty of GOP vermin deserting the the SS Romney out there

    ShitSandwich Romney?

  107. 107.

    Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason

    September 23, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    @Dennis SGMM: I was slow. It took me until Reagan to figure out the Republicans.

  108. 108.

    LD50

    September 23, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    @gex:

    Proponents say the tiny, as-yet unnamed town

    They’ll probably name it after Ayn Rand or Ronald Reagan, tho I personally would vote for “Neuvo Mogadishu”.

  109. 109.

    gex

    September 23, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    @LD50: Do not overlook some variation of Galt.

    The voting machine company ES&S built their HQ on John Galt Blvd. Why even bother trying to pretend not to take sides?

  110. 110.

    xian

    September 24, 2012 at 12:00 am

    @dmsilev: I hear that canard a lot. Who cares if the capital was already taxed up the value chain. We’re talking about the gain over the initial capital. Why should that be tax-free?

  111. 111.

    Yutsano

    September 24, 2012 at 12:05 am

    @gex: Just call it Galt’s Gulch and stop pretending.

  112. 112.

    jwb

    September 24, 2012 at 12:06 am

    @gex: The voting machines are the one great unknown, but if the Democrats are not out in front expressing their worry about it—the way they are on voter suppression—I don’t see what anyone else can do about it. I just have to presume that the Democrats have evaluated the risk and decided that it’s not a major concern. If Rasmussen and Gallup start moving into alignment with the other polls soon, I’ll stop being concerned, but so long as those polls continue to show a very different race than everyone else, I’ll remain worried that they are lowballing to provide cover for some rather massive vote stealing.

  113. 113.

    Yutsano

    September 24, 2012 at 12:18 am

    Just to digress:

    Amir is that you? :)

  114. 114.

    freelancer

    September 24, 2012 at 12:35 am

    @LD50:

    tho I personally would vote for “Neuvo Mogadishu”.

    :D

    I approve this message.

  115. 115.

    Anne Laurie

    September 24, 2012 at 1:31 am

    @Yutsano:

    The government of Honduras has to come in and build up all the infrastructure then the Galtian geniuses come in and kick out all the brown riffraff (what? you think they’d get to LIVE there??) and live in Saint Ayn blessed paradise. Never mind how they plan to get an educated work force for their factories or how the legal system will be supported or how contracts are enforced. This could get entertaining. My money’s on the jaguars drug cartels.

    An “no regulation” city full of pot smokers who commute to the United States on a regular basis? What could possibly go wrong, when all those retired car salesmen and hedge fund managers whip out their Second Amendment solutions?

  116. 116.

    Gex

    September 24, 2012 at 1:41 am

    @Yutsano: They should have to start out naked, lacking tools, and stuck in the forest. Self made in the very truest sense.

  117. 117.

    Yutsano

    September 24, 2012 at 1:42 am

    @Anne Laurie: These are Galtians we’re talking about. Nothing but fine high-grade blow but they’d better sell it cheap or there will be blood.

  118. 118.

    Mnemosyne

    September 24, 2012 at 2:17 am

    @gex:

    As I’ve said many times, I’ll respect libertarians once they manage to actually build their dream city from scratch somewhere in the desert instead of cannibalizing existing infrastructure and screaming, “We built this!”

  119. 119.

    Gex

    September 24, 2012 at 2:35 am

    @Mnemosyne: The more I think about it, the more I like it.

    This is two libertarian paradises under construction counting the city on the ocean. They’re going Galt! And I say good luck and good riddance.

  120. 120.

    Amir Khalid

    September 24, 2012 at 11:06 am

    @Yutsano:
    No, that’s not me, it’s Ian Lau. (Says so right there in the end credits.) I do remember Ian from my days at The Star, though.

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