I’m not here to wank about my ideas of how campaigns should be run, but it seems obvious that a lot of winning an election is about making the election revolve around issues where your side has the upper hand. Republicans were smart, if shameful, about this for many years. They made the 1988 race about Willie Horton, for example.
Whatever one thinks of Paul Ryan, there’s no denying that his selection made the future of Medicare a reasonably big issue in this race. Medicare is a popular government program that was created by Democrats. Voters are more inclined to trust Democrats on the issue. Never mind that, yes, Paul Ryan’s plan would replace it with vouchers in reality, or that Republicans have run a lot of ads lying about that and accusing Obama of cutting it. That may or may not matter. Medicare is a good issue for Democrats and a bad one for Republicans. Full stop.
If you look at the charts, you’ll see that Obama has led on the issue the entire race, that it did tighten a bit after the selection of Ryan, but that Obama now has a comfortable lead on the issue again.
My guess, though, is that in June and July, even if voters favored Obama on Medicare, they weren’t thinking about it much.
Mark S.
It’s okay, because Mitt will explain in the debates that even under VoucherCare seniors can still get ambulances to take them to the ER.
Culture of Truth
shameless, also
EconWatcher
I’ve been fond of Mencken’s quip that no one ever lost money underestimating the American people. But I think we have to give our fellow citizens a little credit: They do apparently have a memory span of at least four years, at least for something really big like the financial meltdown.
It was not at all obvious to me that people would still be (correctly) blaming Bush for the meltdown and its aftermath, four years later. But they are. And they deserve some credit for that, especially given the amount of b.s. they are fed by the media.
Culture of Truth
For decades, the issue of “taxes” always favor the GOP. Year in, year out. Until the fall 2012.
The GOP reminds me of the old guy at the end of “Dirty Dancing”
“Medicare and jobs, that’s what the people want… not wars and tax cuts for the rich.. it feels like it’s all just slipping away…”
Linda Featheringill
During this election, the Republicans have shown very poor discipline about message.
One reason may be Romney. Nobody can tell him anything. Period.
The second and related reason is that Romney can’t stand being told that something is his fault. He absolutely MUST defend himself, often in nonconstructive ways. In a frenzy of defense, he goes off in all directions.
To use boxing terms, he cannot absorb peripheral blows while concentrating on jabbing, jabbing, jabbing on the previously chosen target on his opponent.
Obama on the other hand . . .
Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker
I confess I don’t know the ins and outs of Medicare, and I didn’t realize how much seniors were dependent on Medicaid. While they’ve essentially tried to weasel out this issue politically by grandfathering current beneficiaries out of voucherization, they want to cut Medicaid right out of the gate. I’m betting a lot of retired non-rich people, and their adult kids, know that they might very well need Medicaid sooner than later.
Mark S.
Serious question: Is Jennifer Rubin the most ridiculous pundit working today? It’s seriously like reading a column by Baghdad Bob. Shit, even Bill Kristol can see the writing on the wall.
The Red Pen
Yes, but what do the unskewed polls say?
(This is a reference to the new wingnut obsession of adjusting polls to reflect Rasmussen’s party ID demographics. Rasmussen uses robo-polls to landlines, thus polling people who have landlines and don’t screen their calls. For some reason, this includes a larger percent of aging Republicans than does the regular population. Who knew?)
quannlace
In the latest re-tooling of the Romney campaign, I keep hearing ‘Let Ryan be Ryan!”
Do they figure he hasn’t been booed enough at his stump stops?
jl
” During this election, the Republicans have shown very poor discipline about message. ”
Give them a break. Their magic wedgie machine is broke. None of the buttons or levers are working this time.
waratah
I think that when he chose Paul Ryan as vice president that is when
I knew Obama and Biden would win.
Napoleon
@Mark S.:
yes
Cargo
I’m kind of amazed that the Mighty Wurlitzer seems to have thrown a rod this time around. Stuff is actually getting questioned and blatant lies are being noticed as such. This is new. God, remember swift boating and Rathergate? Seems like another universe.
Violet
Why’s Romney’s line ticking back up there at the end of September? Has something happened with Medicare recently that favors Romney? I see Obama’s also still trending up, but not as sharply.
EconWatcher
@Cargo:
You’re right, but how much of this is just because Romney is personally a jerk, especially to the press? If they line up a smooth talker for the next one, I bet we’ll be back where we were.
Culture of Truth
@jl: To quote another movie, “this is our country! It belongs to us!”
“your brother is having a heart attack”
“Fuck him!”
“Turn those machines back on! “Turn those machines back on!!!””
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@EconWatcher:
__
I can’t think of many of my fellow citizens who pay attention to the fine details of national events and related policy issues. But big events and broad narratives, those have sticking power. The GOP ran against the dirty fucking hippies and the pale shade of Jimmy Carter for decades after 1968 and 1980 respectively. Now George W Bush, the Iraq War and the 2008 meltdown are albatrosses around the GOP’s neck and the stink from those is going to be around for a long time.
Culture of Truth
Indeed, if I could sum this election in one sentence, it would “the public does not blame Obama for the recession of 2008”
Having said that, with all due credit to the American voter, assuming all goes well, I do think this race was winnable, though never inevitable, with a GOP nominee who was not a wealthy tone-deaf tax-cheating half wit with a dancing horse.
Chyron HR
Just you wait, in mid-December there will be an unstoppable ad blitz painting Obama as the Medicare destroyer, and then he’ll be UNLIMITED CORPORATE DOOMED.
Violet
@EconWatcher: I think the press favors the incumbent to a certain level because they want access. And Romney is such a bad candidate, they hate him and don’t want him to win. Those kinds of feelings color how they report, even if they shouldn’t.
Also, things like Twitter have made it easier to jump right on idiot pundits when they say stupid things and have made it very simple to make fun of them. Like #DavidGregorysStupidQuestions and so forth. Ridicule is one of the best tools people have to get rid of reporters who won’t do their job and I think Twitter may help people have some power in that regard.
Anoniminous
Think it is telling when people are told what Conservative’s policies actually are the first reaction is they don’t believe it. Democrats have been pretty good, this election, at hammering away at the economic and social policies the GOP actually want to institute and drawing a sharp contrast to what Democrats are trying to do. That the Dems have been successful at this is illustrated by amk’s post of a Reuters polling indicating Romney’s lead among the 65+ crowd has collapsed to two points.
Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker
@Culture of Truth: From Laura Ingram’s “this shoulda benna gimme!” to Romney falling back on dumbed down talk radio catch phrases, they’ve been running against, and believing in, Imaginary Obama. If they had started by recognizing that in fact, Osama bin Laden is dead, and General Motors is, in fact, alive, they might’ve done better.
amk
What fucking vouchers ? ER is good enough for you peons.
Violet
@Anoniminous: The booing of Ryan at the AARP gathering was kind of amazing too. When has that ever happened? Ryan was in full “Disappointed Dad” mode and it didn’t work with those out of control
kidsseniors.Punchy
@Culture of Truth: Did you just quote “Dirty Dancing”?
Oh my. Balloon Juice — come for Cole’s Excoriations, stay for the Swayze!
Nobody puts CoT in the corner!
Turgidson
@Mark S.:
This actually worries me. If Kristol is declaring Romney dead, that probably means he about to stage a dramatic comeback.
jl
@Culture of Truth:
A more disciplined and self-aware and ‘connected to reality’ ticket might have been able to muddle through and fix it without swearing in front of the kids and throwing a tantrum.
Let’s see… now where might one find a grown up ticket like that?
Obama/Biden 2012, baby!
Edit: on second thought, my joke don’t fit, since the Dem candidates have some scruples, honesty and shame. They use them judiciously, they are politicians after all, but far more than their opponents.
Poopyman
@EconWatcher: Absolutely. All the “journalists” are having butthurt at not getting invited to one of Mitt’s compounds for a barbeque and tire swinging.
Xecky Gilchrist
Is there a graph for what percentage of people realize Medicare *is* a government program?
BenA
@Culture of Truth:
But who would that mythical GOP be? Santorum? Gingrich? Perry? The problem is they really don’t have ANYONE who appeals nationally… Romney was their best bet.
And 2016 looks just as bad.
KevinNYC
I think the narrowing of the polls reflects Romney and Ryan lying about the Obama’s cuts to medicare, not the Ryan selection.
This is the effect of negative advertising followed by Obama getting the facts out, so the gap begins to widen again.
People are learning the facts about Romney and Ryan’s proposals and Obama’s
The Republic of Stupidity
There… isn’t that what you really meant to say?
Ben Franklin
@Linda Featheringill:
To use boxing terms, he cannot absorb peripheral blows while concentrating on jabbing, jabbing, jabbing on the previously chosen target on his opponent.
Shadow boxing, comes to mind. Your opponent is yourself.
Zifnab
@jl:
Wasn’t that just what the entire GOP convention was, though? Lots of foul-mouthed politicians and their equally vulgar audience got up on stage and explained in no uncertain details why they hated America, while wrapping themselves in the flag.
The GOP signed its own death warrant this time last year when it was seriously considering Hailey Barber, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Perry as Presidential material, only to discard them for being too liberal. :-p The GOP voter does not want to be connected to reality. They don’t want you to fix anything, they want you to leave them the hell alone. And they want you to do it while swearing up a storm at the nasty negro usurper that is sitting in the seat reserved for the Bush clan and their fellow travelers.
Anoniminous
@Violet:
Never. No previous politician has been stupid enough to stand in front of a bunch of seniors and tell them he was going to destroy the government programs keeping them alive.
ETA:
@BenA:
I am eagerly awaiting a Christie run in 2016. Be the first time in US political history a presidential candidate carried his very own personal forklift on the campaign trail.
Culture of Truth
I don’t believe any of the other GOP candidates this time around would have fared much better than Romney.
Bill Clinton remarked on TDS that when he ran in 1992 he’d been a Governor for 12 years, young though he was. Sure, he’s seen ‘the natural’ now but by then he was a seasoned politician and officeholder.
The GOP could use someone like that, like Reagan was in 80, or Nixon in 68, or Clinton in 92. (or FDR) The young and gifted like JFK and Obama are unusual. Too bad Jeb is poisoned. I guess it’s Christie all the way.
EconWatcher
@BenA:
I didn’t think Rubio was stellar, but I did think he was serviceable, and he might not be a bad national candidate for them. I can’t seriously think they would ever spring for the likes of Gingrich or Perry or Santorum. They’re crazy, but they’re not that crazy.
As hard as it is to believe, they really did go with their best bet this year from those who ran, and they did in 2008, too.
gelfling545
@quannlace: I’m sure it would all have gone much better if he had felt free to tell those lazy folks at the AARP to get out there and get a job & take responsibility for their lives.
KG
There’s a post at the Corner with a quote from Gillespie saying that Team Romney is relying on the debates now…
I tried watching a bunch of the GOP debates, I never saw Romney come off as good in the debates. He always looked like the least bad in the debates, which apparently constitutes a “win” in the chattering classes. To take a football metaphor, he was a mid-level D-I program playing a D-IAA program in the primaries. It’s really easy to look amazing in that situation (and he only look decent), he’s now going to be playing a ranked team from a big conference. It’s not going to end well.
Mark S.
Paul Ryan on Ayn Rand:
I just read Rand for her three dimensional characters and erotic sex scenes.
WereBear
It certainly helps that Romney is such a jerk. And this will impact the next smooth talker. Because this is a branding issue, and their brand has been taking hits since W.
Think of W as the “poisoned Tylenol” of Presidents. (Shouldn’t be too hard.) The reason Tylenol didn’t sink beneath the waves long ago is that the company jumped in and reassured all the potential customers. We’re taking steps. Look at what we are doing. We know, we care, we won’t kill you.
But is that what the Republicans did? NO!
So imagine: Tylenol refusing to believe the poisonings happened. When that didn’t work they blamed the police for letting people buy poisoned medicine. They defiantly declare they are not going to change their packaging and give in to terrorists, and when people complain they are called sissies.
And that’s where the Republicans are now; in finance, in foreign policy, in keeping people safe. All their strongholds, destroyed.
Thanks, W!
Poopyman
@EconWatcher:
FTFY
gelfling545
@EconWatcher: The description of the temper tantrum he had before the Univision interview was just amazing.
BenA
@EconWatcher:
I might be underestimating the broad mindedness of the modern GOP party… but I don’t think a guy named Rubio could win their nomination.
Zifnab
@BenA:
I can’t stress enough how much I disagree. As of right now, the GOP controls 29 governor’s mansions and one house or the other in more than that number of state legislatures. The idea that the generic GOP can’t win states is easily disprovable. The party just needs a blank slate – someone like George Bush that looks totally boring on paper and plays well to an audience – and run on the general conservative ticket. Romney, aside from having a tin ear and all the charisma of a paper bag, is carrying way too much ironic personal baggage. Come 2016, I’m confident the GOP will be able to produce Generic Conservative and shoe-horn him through the primary.
There are still lots of conservative voters in the US, and lots of default-GOP states. There are still plenty of opportunities for rat-fuckery on the right. And Obama is just one Clinton-esque scandal away from giving independent voters an excuse to turn up their noses at him and his party, so they can go with the sparkly-eyed rich white boy that looks like the 50s.
Please don’t go chanting “Permanent Democratic Majority”, like the GOP did in ’02. That way lies pain and disappointment.
catclub
@quannlace: IN fact, Ryan has been just as inaccessible to the press pool as has Romney.
He only goes for local press interviews.
The Ryan image with the press, as a genius marathoner, was built on extremely friendly profiles. He does not actually do the math in any honest way, and real press interactions will show that.
It was only desperation that has sent Romney to the back of the plane to give snippets to the traveling press.
EconWatcher
@gelfling545:
I missed that. Do tell.
jl
@Anoniminous:
” Never. No previous politician has been stupid enough to stand in front of a bunch of seniors and tell them he was going to destroy the government programs keeping them alive. ”
RE ‘disappointed dad’expression that Violet mentioned, not sure how much of that was an act on Lyin’ Ryan’s part, or genuine.
But, when Ryan talks about how limiting purchasing power of consumers will magically bring down coss of care through ‘consumer driven care’ and competition, it is an abstraction to a lot of people who have good insurance. People who do not have good insurance, or have experienced the difference between insurance insecurity and real insurance have an accurate understanding of how that process will work.
Surviving without health care is not like patching up an old car to keep it going. The oldsters know that.
flukebucket
@Mark S.:
Every time I see Jennifer Rubin’s name I think of the most recent “Hitler Finds Out” video. Anybody who does not have Jennifer Rubin’s name on speed dial make like a tree. LOL!
jl
@BenA:
“Perry?”
As the SNL Ann Romney said, maybe Perry can back into HS, if he’s lucky.
bemused
The more Romney and Ryan talk up their plans with little detail or truth and consequences on the campaign trail, the more attention is paid to the issues like Medicare, taxes, etc. The more they talk, the less people like them or their policy plans and Obama’s approval ratings go up. Tweedledum and Tweedledee need to do more talking.
1badbaba3
Just got back from TPM. I thought the right wing media said our boring convention would not produce a meaningful bump. Jeez, if Kaine, of all people, is surging ahead does this mean that it’s good news for John McCain?
Forum Transmitted Disease
@Anoniminous: The poor fucker needs to be driven in a limousine as he can’t walk a hundred yards. I’m giving him less than 50/50 odds of being alive by 2016. Especially with those rage issues…he’s a heart attack waiting for a public place to happen.
ding dong
@EconWatcher: I am amazed too but some of it has to do with Mitt being such a sucky candidate.
EconWatcher
@1badbaba3:
I bet that polling in favor of Kaine was before he made his comment that he would consider a universal tax, to make sure the 47% does have to pay some income tax. As a Virginian, I would like to slap that boy but good.
jibeaux
@Anoniminous: Ah, Chris Christie. Campaigning in Florida. In the summer. He should probably go ahead and get his sweat glands removed now.
catclub
@BenA: Jon Thune. Blank slate comes to mind. Inoffensive (apparently, but who knows), also.
If the GOP could actually run their generic Republican, they would win.
Hill Dweller
@BenA:
The Republican party is anything but broadminded.
Nevertheless, Rubio has plenty of skeletons in his closet. He hasn’t had to face a Presidential candidate’s level of scrutiny yet, but when he does it will get ugly.
danimal
DougJ @ top:
Revisionist history. They also won on the crucial issues of the day: flag-burning and the Pledge of Allegiance.
Thank God Bush Senior saved the Republic from the perils of marauding flag burners, using the Pledge as kindling.
catclub
@EconWatcher: The Democrats have not come out vocally and said: “That is the whole fucking point of a progressive income tax! Almost all other taxes are extremely regressive and that is BAD. A progressive income tax is good and fair.”
I hope they do before this becomes like the fetal huddle of death panels and the eloquent defense of Obamacare in 2010.
Mark S.
Chris Christie is never, ever going to be president. Nobody wants a fat guy telling them how lazy and stupid they are. He’s about the only person I can think of who would’ve been a worse choice than Ryan.
FlipYrWhig
@Zifnab: I still say that Perry was their best candidate if they wanted to win. Genial dumbass saying threatening things… covers all the bases, really. Plus, linked into the big money. I kept waiting for him to bounce back and it never happened.
@Zifnab: Watch for Scott Walker in 2016. He’s an absolute idiot, but he’s beaten back the liberal hordes multiple times, and he’s like Koch Brothers Patient Zero. That’s the kind of guy who there was room for this year but never stepped up: a ballsy young governor. I think he can take Christie because of Christie’s relative heterodoxy on culture-war nonsense. The other guy who could catch a wave in 2016 is Ted Cruz. Those are my GOP
darkdancing horses for the future.Mark S.
@Hill Dweller:
Do tell.
FlipYrWhig
@danimal: Also, Boston Harbor not being clean enough. A classic Republican wedge issue!
Violet
@jl:
Genuine or not, it’s how he operates. Ryan’s sad clown face is really a “disappointed dad” face. He is sorry you let him down. He hopes you’ll strive to do better next time. Meanwhile, now is going to suck for you. Most of us have been the guilty party while disappointed parent deals with us. We know it’s not going to end well for us when that face shows up. And Ryan puts on that face with adults. It just doesn’t work for him. It’s condescending.
The Red Pen
@Turgidson:
Don’t despair. Dick Morris says Romney is going to win in a landslide.
EconWatcher
@danimal:
I thought Dukakis lost when he was asked at the debate whether he would want the death penalty for someone who raped and murdered his wife. It was a grotesque question, to be sure. But his flat and unemotional answer sealed his fate.
I’m a lifelong DP opponent, but the answer to that one was so easy: If someone did that to my wife, I wouldn’t want the state to execute him. I’d want to do it myself, with my bare hands. But the understable feelings of victims and their families don’t answer the question we have to address as a society…. (yadda, yadda)
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Zifnab:
Co-signed without reservations.
Most of the damage the GOP has been able to do from 2009 to present has been done at the state level via those legislatures and governorships. Until we clean their clocks at the state level they are still very much alive and dangerous.
shortstop
I was very concerned a few weeks back when polls were showing that Florida (and Ohio? Am I remembering right?) seniors thought Romney and Ryan had more cred on Medicare. Since I’m related to two The Villages-residing senior lunkheads, I could see firsthand how their concern about dusky presidents was outweighing their sense of self-preservation…so glad to see people are wising up.
Todd
Look for it to be a Western state Latino/a.
Violet
@Forum Transmitted Disease:
Absolutely. He had an interview with Matt Lauer on the Today Show during the RNC and he couldn’t even sit in the tall chair (you know, like the Eastwood chair). He had to lean against it. He looked very awkward.
I can just see him berating someone in, oh, Iowa, and passing out on stage in the summer heat. Or needing oxygen on the plane because the pressure changes were too much for him. Or stroking out in Florida when a senior asks about Medicare cuts. It’s just not going to go well for him when he has to deal with the daily grind of a campaign.
Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker
@BenA:
I never thought a Mormon could win. Four years from now, a lot more Archie Bunkers will have gone to their reward, and some of the most racist parts of the GOP would love to be able to say “See! We’ve got one too!” I think Rubio would be Paul Ryan 2.0, a nice looking young man who doesn’t stand up well to scrutiny, and from what I’ve seen of him, he doesn’t have Ryan’s absolute (and absolutely unfounded) self-confidence. I confess I haven’t paid too close attention to him, but I definitely get a Bush-Palin “Oh god, please don’t ask me about that chapter I didn’t read” vibe off him.
Speaking of Ryan, I just saw a clip of him telling a FL audience that “China may soon be looking down at us from the moon”. The words, his demeanor, he really looked like a second-rate Glen Beck to me. I wonder how it played outside the room.
eyelessgame
I think a lot of people in June/July were just thinking what they’d been told – “Medicare is a problem, they say Ryan has a solution to it, so yay”. People only know what they hear. It was a while before a lot of people heard how f-ed up his “solution” is.
catclub
@Violet: “He is sorry you let him down.”
That expression can be surprisingly disturbing. Makes me think of Children of the Corn. Or torturers.
1badbaba3
@Culture of Truth: Man, Ran-day and Mor-tay look all warm and fuzzy compared to the clowns trying to turn us into Somalia these days.
@EconWatcher: Considering is not the same as advocating for. Is this now part of his platform, taxing the 47%? Does he have a plan?
Ben Franklin
Apostasy…heh
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/21/mormons-want-to-excommunicate-romney-critic.html
SatanicPanic
The GOP era of domination at the presidential level is over. We have way better people for 2016 than any of the kooks they’re going to dredge up. I’m not saying we should get complacent, but let’s be real, their WH chances are pretty much zero for the next 10-20 years. Let’s focus on Congress.
Suffern ACE
@Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact : And what pray tell is he going to do? Shoot down their Chinese space missions in the name of lunar supremacy? Establish that big space base while balancing the budget?
It’s like those people who complain that the Chinese and Arabs have taller buildings than we do now. So what if they do? Are we short on office space that we would need a bunch of tall empty buildings?
Violet
@catclub: It’s also the attitude of abusers. They have to hurt you because you did something and if you hadn’t done it, they wouldn’t be in this terrible position. They’re sorry you made them do it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker
@catclub:
Danny, I’ve sentenced boys younger than you to the electric chair… didn’t want to do it.. felt I… owed it to them
@Suffern ACE: Obviously the answer is to cut taxes on small aerospace companies, so that they can liberate their capital and build a moon colony!
Nina
I can see Christie secretly getting a stomach staple, then ostentatiously claiming that he lost the weight because he Found Jeebus, while running a few showy footraces.
Like another Republican governor and current Fox commentator, whose name contains elements similar to Huckster.
EconWatcher
@1badbaba3:
All Kaine said was that he would “consider” it, and he later walked it back by saying “I only said I’d consider it, I didn’t say I’d actually do it.” But in my opinion, it was a damn near unforgivable thing for a Dem to say, and illustrates the beef I’ve long had with Kaine.
I think he doesn’t have a core. From my observation, his first instinct when confronting an issue is not, what is the best and most humane approach I can sell politically? It’s rather, what position can I take that will burnish my reputation as a sensible moderate, who’s always ready to hear the other side? It should have been obvious to him that the whole “47%” flap was a huge winnner for our side, but his orientation blinded him to it. What on earth is a Dem doing, carefully “considering” whether we need to hit the poorest of the poor with more taxes, to make it more fair for the rich? That’s what the man said.
Of course I want him to win over Macaca. But if he does, I bet he’ll give us some Ben Nelson-style heartache.
shortstop
@catclub: @Violet: I TOTALLY get that vibe off him. Gotta be cruel to be kind, you know?
Napoleon
@Anoniminous:
I was going to mention Taft, but I guess he was before the invention of the forklift.
Legalize
@quannlace:
No, no. They’re booing Obama. Just ask any wingnut with an internet connection.
raven
@EconWatcher: He’s in fucking nutcase land Virginia, what do you think you’ll get out of there. Fuckin Webb is a pig as well.
Ed Drone
@Ben Franklin:
Mitt Rmoney is the only major politician I know of who needs a “cut man” when shadow-boxing.
Ed
yopd1
I find it hilarious when Republican Politicians question our science policy. These are the same guys who want to teach evolution in our science classrooms and think most scientists are making up stuff about global warming.
Hell, this weekend Romney was questioning why airplane windows couldn’t roll down to allow oxygen in when there is a fire on board and people are having trouble breathing. Seriously, this is the level of reasoning and scientific thought that is our modern Republican party.
Chris
@Anoniminous:
I’ve said it many times: Americans’ problem is that they want to vote for Republicans and get Democratic policies out of it. Far too many even today are in love with the Republican myth (patriotic! Godly! Proudly self-sufficient!) while remaining addicted to the system liberals painstakingly built over many decades (which actually works and delivers the prosperity Republicans promise) but that people today simply take for granted and often don’t even realize is there.
The back-and-forth of the last twenty years comes from that. When the system’s completely broken (1992, 2008), people vote for Democrats, but quickly fall back in love with the Republican myth, and stay in love until the next economic disaster slaps them back to reality.
(I suppose I should say “moderates” rather than Americans overall. Ahhh, the mushy middle of American politics…)
Hill Dweller
@Mark S.: Rep. David Rivera is/was being investigated by the FBI, IRS, Miami-Dade police, to name a few, for his shady behavior.
Rubio is Rivera’s BFF. Rivera gave Rubio his first job in politics(Dole campaign). They owned a house together that went into foreclosure. Both have a history of ripping of the state of Florida while being state legislators. Rubio billed the state of Florida over $100,000(including repairs to his minivan) during his 2-year stint as House Speaker.
Reportedly, Rubio’s connection to Rivera, among other things, was the reason Willard passed him over for VP.
EconWatcher
@raven:
I live in Virginia. I like Webb more. He actually tried to start a national discussion about how screwed up our criminal justice system is, and how odd it is that the land of the free has the highest rate of incarceration. Webb actually speaks his mind, even if I don’t always agree. Kaine is a weasel.
If you think Kaine’s behavior is excusable because Virginia is nutcase land, riddle me this: Why has Kaine been consistently underperforming Obama?
shortstop
@yopd1: I am speechless. SPEECHLESS! This is the quality of our opposition, which will snag 45% without even blinking a spray-tanned eye.
catclub
@Chris: “I’ve said it many times: Americans’ problem is that they want to vote for Republicans and get Democratic policies out of it.”
This is also why David Brooks has a column in the NYT.
Also Tom Friedman.
They are representin’
aimai
@Violet:
I love this description of ryan. It just hits him off to a tee. Its part of his general Eddie Haskell shtick because he always looks like a jumped up teenager who has learned to mimic the more powerful people in his own life because he knows it works for them. He must have seemed, to teh AARP’ers, like an incredibly insulting version of their own kids (if they are on bad terms with them) imitating them or their own young doctors lecturing them on obvious shit like “Have you thought about giving up your evening glass of scotch?”
aimai
cckids
@EconWatcher: It’s kind of amazing, isn’t it, how easily the political spin-talk just springs from our lips? I could give you boilerplate patter from either side of most any issue on a minutes notice.
Makes it absolutely unbelievable that Romney sucks at it so badly. Should be unpossible!
General Stuck
eeeeOUch!!
Dennis
@Culture of Truth:
I want to know how much more charitable giving Mitt Romney is hiding.
How do we know it’s not 50% of his total income instead of 30%.
Mitt Romney, please come clean.
Mark S.
@yopd1:
WTF?
Um, maybe because you’d be sucked out of the fucking plane, along with all the fucking oxygen. Jesus, this man is too dumb to be president.
MattR
@flukebucket:
Not sure if you are aware, but the entire purpose of that Hitler video is to work in the Jennifer Rubin quote. It was created by the owner of the JRubinBlogger twitter account.
Political Observer
BREAKING:
Obama speech: Obama says welfare recipients part of “majority coalition”. Watch here.
Damning!
shortstop
@aimai: Well, me mum, Recovering Republican, is firmly enconced in the AARP demographic, and she constantly refers to Ryan as “that smarmy punk.” Occasionally she also opines that a good smack across the face wouldn’t hurt him one little bit. Anecdotal, I know, but amusing.
Brachiator
@DougJ:
Very cool chart. Didn’t realize at first that you could scan across to get details on the data points. Thanks very much for this.
No one naturally has the upper hand. Circumstances and the details of specific campaigns matter.
The conventional wisdom keeps insisting that Romney was ahead, especially when he kept focusing on jobs. Maybe. He has been blunted for now by his own words disparaging voters and by his inability to expand the standard GOP boileplate with any outline of his own ideas.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker:
I did not fully understand how Medicaid tied into this, and how disastrous the GOP plans would be.
Bill Clinton laid out the case with respect to Medicare and Medicaid in a clear and down-to-earth manner at the DNC. I don’t know that any info from the Democrats did it as well before this.
It’s not just that “Medicare is a good issue for Democrats and a bad one for Republicans. Full stop.”
It’s not just that people care about Medicare and the GOP’s position is weak and the Democrats want to “help” people or preserve these programs. Clinton clearly, concisely and plainly showed the voucher plan to be a sham and made people understand, and feel, what they might lose in voting for the Republicans.
Clinton took it beyond “here’s how the Democrats love you and how the Democrats hate you” or even “here’s the Democrats’ plan to preserve the status quo and the Republican plan to use vouchers. Policy. Policy. You decide.”
No, it was, “here, with a brief, stark example, is why the GOP plan is bad. Vote Democrat.”
I think of the line from the movie Philadelphia. The viewiing audience realizes that the protagonists have won when a juror repeats a line offered by Denzel Washington:
Joe Miller: Now, explain it to me like I’m a four-year-old.
The Democrats message was and should continue to be: The GOP not only does not have an answer, their plans will hurt you. We have better answers. Full Stop.
Chris
@Zifnab:
No, that’s not quite right. They still fully expect their Social Security, their Medicare, their money for road construction and other public works, and their FEMA to come save their asses after they’ve cut their own emergency services. They just expect you to provide that while balancing the budget by taking abolishing the Undeserving Minority Funding Administration that they just KNOW exists and is causing all our economic woes and deficits and whatnot.
MattR
@General Stuck: I had read the whole “I have friends who own NASCAR teams” quote, but IMO this bit from the NY Times (which Yahoo excerpted at the link you posted) is more damaging.
Chyron HR
@Political Observer:
I know that Jesus said stuff about helping the poor. Do your Mormon Messiah’s holy scriptures instead say the poor should be ground up into dog food for Seamus?
1badbaba3
@EconWatcher: Meh. Politicians. What’re ya gonna do? In your case familiarity has bread contempt. Perfectly understandable, and I hear you. But I know you would rather have Ben Nelson-style heartache than Rand Paul-type butt pain. At least we could work with Nelson, after the pay-off, that is. The ‘silent purges’ of 2010 and the 2012 primaries should keep the ‘blue dogs’ in line.
Openly oppose Obama at your own peril.
El Cid
@aimai: What’s all the more impressively egregious about Ryan’s AARP boo-fest is that not only was he the person he was, with the policies he’s pushed, about to address the AARP presumably to try and convince them and at least many of its members to support his candidate.
He was about to address an organization which had formally endorsed the PPACA (i.e. Obamanazi-Maoist-Mau-Mauist-Leninist-Booga-Booga-Care).
And his strategy to win over the organization which had backed Obamacare was to stand in front of them and start off “Well fuuuuuuu-uuuuuuu-uuuuuuu-uuuuuck YOU!”
Political Observer
@Chyron HR:
I’m an atheist, so fuck off.
Ed Drone
@Zifnab:
I still think “Innocents of Islam” (or whatever the title of that piece of dreck is) is just that — a rat-fuck — meant to emphasize the instability of the Islamic world and the “Carteresque” nature of President Obama’s foreign policy.
If it truly is, it means that the radical right is absolutely without morals and deserves every bit of condemnation they cna get. It smacks of treason to me, or at the very least, sedition, and should be actionable under the law.
Ed
Jay C
@Anoniminous:
By the time the next Presidential election rolls around, there’s a good likelihood Chris Christie will be just another unemployed pol. New Jersey elects its Governors in off-years: Big Chris will be running (assuming he does) for reelection next year (2013), and if the Garden State lives up to its typical political traditions, there’s at least a 50-50 chance Christie will be turfed out for a Democrat (who, if NJ lives up to its typical political traditions, will either do nothing, or make the state’s problems worse, but that’s another story). As a sitting Governor, he may have a chance at the GOP nod in ’16 (assuming the Party’s wingnuts don’t sandbag him); but out of office? Meh…
And yes, I know: Mitt Romney has been out of office for quite a while, and he’s still the GOP Presidential candidate: working out real swell for him, too…..
Political Observer
So, how is it wrong to attack Obambi on welfare when he himself said welfare bums are a part of his “majority coalition”?
Democracy only lasts until the public figures out they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury, and it collapses from loose fiscal policy. Obambi seems to want to bring that day closer and closer.
Ed in NJ
OT, but when you’ve lost Deadspin, it’s just about over:
Romney’s Olympic Shakedown
El Cid
@MattR: I keep trying to decide which was the moment where as an observer I noted some Romneyism which made me say “This guy is a freak, and a terrible candidate, he’s going to fuck up and he’s going to lose”.
It’s either the poncho sneer, the “$10,000? Wanna bet $10,000?”, ‘the trees are the right height,’ or, my personal favorite Romneyite goofy sociopathy, “I’m not sure about these cookies. They don’t — they don’t look like you made them,” etc.
But whichever one of those was first, I saw that and went, ‘man, I think we just dodged several bullets, ’cause this guy’s terrible.’
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker:
And of course, in true Lyin’ Ryan fashion: He tends to vote against NASA authorization bills.
LD50
@Political Observer: So you’ve given up pretending that Romney is winning and are now content to just whine about ‘Obambi’? You should really give us a heads up when you plan to shift your trolling like that.
RedKitten
@General Stuck: From the article:
My god that man is a shithead. He reminds me VERY much of a former boss that I had. If he thought you were his equal or better, his lips would be firmly planted to your arse. If he thought you could do something for him, he was imperious and demanding and an inveterate name-dropper. If you fell into neither category, you were invisible. If he didn’t like a decision that the board had made, he’d just go behind their backs and do what HE wanted to do.
We had a summer student who had made a minor clerical error in something, and the boss came in during the kid’s lunch break and tore him a new arsehole, and then proceeded to catch a glimpse of what the kid was reading (a Harry Potter book) and went into a 40-minute lecture about he’d be better applying himself and not spending time in fantasy-land, etc. etc. The poor kid was in tears.
Romney reminds me of him, forcibly. An arrogant, materialistic jackass with absolutely no empathy or social awareness.
Political Observer
@LD50:
The race is all tied up, too close to call.
Chyron HR
@Political Observer:
That’s an interesting question. Since Mitt “White Horse” Romney is demonstratably not a divine being, are the people who worship him as such technically athiests?
Never mind, you just go back to your “Crush the
Tutsi47% cockraches” campaign. I’m sure it will pay off in November!Ben Franklin
@Ed Drone:
That whole mess is a cluster of confusion. Why has there been no Press coverage of the funerals of the 4 dead. When, and how was the Ambassador killed, and numerous other silent mysteries.
kindness
I stopped going to NPR’s web site in the morning. They’ve just been over-run with TeaHaddist trolls. Doesn’t matter what the article might say they repeat the same talking points on every single thread and every one of them says Obama is losing big time and Romney & Ryan have won America’s hearts.
Doesn’t matter if it isn’t true, it’s just disgusting to read through. A waste of my time.
LD50
@Political Observer: Funny, you didn’t answer the question.
Chris
@El Cid:
I think it was “wanna bet 10,000?” for me.
I had him pegged as an asshole much sooner, but that was when I knew the country was going to agree with me.
General Stuck
@Political Observer:
You morons keep flogging the same dead chickens, with the ‘redistribution’ claptrap. Lemme clue you in what most Americans think of that. THE RICH NEEDS TO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. It’s called progressive taxation and you can’t run a capitalist democracy without it. And the reason is if you taxe everyone the same, you come up short of cash to build roads, lectric grids, and all the other kinds of infrastructure needed to run a modern economy. Because the poor and middle class just don’t have that kind of cash on hand, and still eat.
Not to mention a military bigger than all the others in the world combined. That you wingnuts insist on. People on welfare make up a tiny tiny tiny pinch of that American Pie. Unless you want to lump seniors and vets into that category. I wish you would, publicly, every day, all day. I know you’re a spoof. But thanks for the tip.
MattR
@El Cid: Yep. It would be a good initial challenge for “Who Wants to be a Millionaire” to have to put the various Romney gaffe quotes in the proper chronological order.
LD50
@Political Observer: Sure it is. Suuure.
[pats wingnut on head]
MattR
@Political Observer:
Only if you think the national popular vote means something.
cckids
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: Yep. That line was preceded by hand-wringing about how if America wants to get to the International Space Station, we have to hitch a ride with RUSSIA. Pearl-clutching ensued.
Thanks for looking up the link re his anti-NASA votes. Of course, he & Romney believe that if evil gubmint regulations are removed, there will be LOTS of private enterprise making moon shots & heading for space.
Morons.
El Cid
@Political Observer: Why would people receiving government assistance for food when their income doesn’t allow them to buy all the food they need without it not be part of a healthy majority political coalition?
Should they be disinvited from elections?
Should “welfare” recipients only vote for candidates promising not to help them?
I’m not sure about the implication here.
If I were in the position of having to receive welfare, I’d think that my vote would still be worth pursuing by a candidate.
Are the recipients of welfare somehow genetically altered, such that they are now and always will be “welfare recipients”?
Is it an ethnic group, i.e., Moocher-Americans, and thus a politician suggesting that he would like the votes of Moocher-Americans is stirring up ethno-welfarist hatred?
Are they presumed dirty and stinky? We don’t want them in our voting booths?
Maybe we should have different polling places, voting sites for Real Americans and then separate but equal facilities for Moocher Americans? Where we could perhaps literally demand not just a photo ID but that they pass an actual smell test?
Of course, we also could make a deal in which anyone receiving any sort of direct (food stamp / EBT) or indirect (Gerald Ford / Ronald Reagan / Heritage Foundation / George W. Bush Jr. federal income tax credit & rebates) government subsidy lose the right to vote.
And maybe come up with a level of income necessary to gain the right to vote, and perhaps ensure the stability of that voting population by also requiring at least some certain level of land ownership.
It could work.
Political Observer
@General Stuck:
By far the vast majority of income taxes are already paid by “the rich”.
RedKitten
@shortstop: I like your mum. And I agree with her — Ryan likely WOULD benefit from a good slap and a dressing-down.
Political Observer
BTW, never saw a poor man offer a job to somebody. It takes your much-hated “rich” (usually small businessmen since most small businesses are sub-chapter S corps and therefore taxed at the top marginal rate) to offer you a job.
rlrr
@MattR:
Even then Obama has had consistent lead in most poles…
Political Observer
@El Cid:
I don’t think anyone at the receiving end of taxpayer largess should be allowed to vote, no. Because they will continue to vote themselves benefits on the taxpayer dime, until we’re bankrupt. Look at California.
Political Observer
Or look at Europe. Decades and decades of generous public benefits on their taxpayer’s dime, or borrowed money, and now it’s time for them to pay the piper, and it ain’t pretty. We shouldn’t let that happen here.
scav
@Mark S.: Speaking of no oxygen, I can’t breathe from laughing — it’s Dangerous!
cckids
@RedKitten:
Almost certainly too late. He needed it back in the early teen years; someone to sit him down & make him see the world in a realistic manner, also to give respect to everyone, not just to those richer than you.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Political Observer:
There is no such thing as an ‘atheist’.
There are only those who have not yet discovered the Starchy Path to Wisdom.
MattR
@Political Observer: Of course that does not include any corportations that receive taxpayer largesse, right? The executives of those companies who lobbied for and received those subsidies should be allowed to vote even though they have already voted themselves benefits on the taxpayer dime, right?
@Political Observer: I never saw a small business create a job without customers who could afford to purchase the goods or services that small business provides.
Chris
@General Stuck:
Well, there’s that. But also, let’s be honest; the Market-God doesn’t pay people what they’re worth. No fucking way are those overpaid freaks with their massive bonuses-regardless-of-performance (or, if they really fuck up royal, “golden parachutes”) working hard enough or contributing enough to the company compared to the average working stiff at the bottom of the ladder, to justify being paid that much more than him. (And it’s no mystery why they’re paid so obscenely much more anyway – they run the company so they make the rules. There’s no objective, impartial, omnipotent “invisible hand” setting the salaries).
So, okay, the government can’t step in and set the individual salary of every last person in America. But it can fucking well tax the overpaid classes and funnel some of that money back to those who’re barely scraping by because their bosses refuse to pay them what they’re worth.
Hill Dweller
@Political Observer: You’ve got nothin’.
Willard called the troops fighting overseas, the elderly, students, the working poor, and the disabled irresponsible, lazy “victims”. The Obama campaign will use that every single day from now until the election to help bolster the case they’ve already successfully made against Willard.
‘Obambi’ defined your candidate weeks ago. Willard’s been running for president for 6 years, but it took Obambi less than a month to successfully paint him into a corner. You guys can keep digging through old speeches, and pulling sentences out of context, but it won’t change that fact nor help your candidate.
Chyron HR
@Political Observer:
You heard the Disciple of the Holy Church of Mitt, guys: Wealthy Republicans are no longer allowed to vote themselves giant tax cuts. Amen.
cckids
@Political Observer:
Wow. The people living on Social Security/Medicare? Soldiers? Disabled people? Red-staters? You sure about that pronouncement? You’re eliminating a significant part of your voting block, you know.
Don’t you want to let their votes count as 3/5 of a “real” vote, at least?
niknik
That@: Dipshit:
That’s because they have the vast majority of the money. Out of curiosity, just whch tax bracket are you in?
LD50
@Political Observer: Dude. 328 to 208 with Rasmussen included. Same as all year. Kiss our asses.
LD50
@cckids: PO is with Ann Coulter on this, who has gone on record as saying that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote until they prove they can vote the right way.
BenA
@Zifnab:
I definitely don’t believe in the permanent Dem majority or anything like that. I was talking more about 2012 in that particular case that 2016. I agree just about anyone could pop up in between 2012 and 2016.
What does give me hope though is that it seems that even being elected a GOP Gov. seems to produce a lot of GOP baggage that would make running in a general election harder. Look at Scott Walker and Jan Brewer… just implementing the crazy makes you pretty much damaged goods for a national campaign. I guess maybe if Washington or California produced a seemingly mild candidate… but would the base elect them after the last two “electable” options went down in flames?
I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but I think it’s at least somewhat unlikely.
Let me put it this way.. It takes a lot of work for someone to shrug off their own bad habits. I’m not sure the GOP could cut out the junk food and loose the excess weight. Especially when the Koch’s and Co. keep on buying them McDonald’s.
General Stuck
@Political Observer:
WOLVERINES!!!
Assholes need to pay more. 3 times more for it to come out in the wash. And then pony up for FICA without a ceiling for that tax, they get to scoff on now.
PDF
LD50
Just think of how few Southerners would still be allowed to vote.
1badbaba3
A republican atheist. Good for you, son. Bless your heart.
Chris
@General Stuck:
Yeah, because everyone else is too poor to pay jack shit.
RedKitten
Stop being an obtuse douchenozzle. Small businesspeople aren’t rich, and I don’t think there is even ONE lefty who would argue with lower taxes for small businesses. What we ARE arguing with are the uber-filthy-rich like Romney who buy the system and then game it so that they are paying much lower tax rates than your aforementioned small businessman. Romney, through Bain Capital, has likely eliminated more jobs than he’s created. So let’s stop holding him up as some sort of wonderful, benevolent job creator who deserves a 2% federal income tax rate, m’kay?
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@cckids:
He also voted against increased funding for Commercial Crew last year (they got only $450 million, as opposed to the $600+ million NASA pays the Russians for rides into orbit– both NASA and the Obama admin asked for about $850 mil).
Once, just once I’d like there to be someone cognizant in the audience, to politely say “Mr Ryan, if you’re so worried about Russian dominance in the space industry, why do you vote for exactly that outcome?”
(And I mean ‘in general’, whenever any BS claim is made, not just space-related).
El Cid
@General Stuck: I don’t think there’s any government in history which didn’t believe in “redistributionist” taxation schemes.
Rome was pretty well aware that besides the whole imperial conquer and steal the natives’ stuff schemes, you still had to get more tax money from rich people than from poor people because the notion of being rich necessarily means you have more money and thus it’s a bit easier to get tax money from you if you have money than if you don’t have it.
The Founding Fathers didn’t scream against taxes, either — it was “no taxation without representation,” not “NO TAXATION GET OFF MAH PROPPTY!”
The Appian Way and the aqueducts weren’t built by small business entrepreneurs, but BIG gubmit redistribution from wealth taken from all sorts of rich people and then given to unemployed poors on unnecessary stimulus projects for infrastructure.
If only Rome had stayed away from taxin’ and spendin’, maybe they would have been around for a while instead of being such a short-lived political entity. (None of which is to suggest a moral approval of the Roman development model.)
Those Old Testament societies didn’t pay for themselves via voluntary contributions, either.
Besides, what happened to the good old days when Ronald Reagan declared his massive expansion of Gerald Ford’s tax credits for lower income workers to be the most successful anti-poverty program from the federal government in history?
What happened to the conservative view that Fedrul Gubmit Income Takes-sation was an evil burden and even more evil when falling upon the shoulders of those who deserved the chance to work their way out of it?
What? Ronald Reagan was actually a secret Luo Communist too? The Heritage Foundation in 1986 was secretly controlled by Bill Ayers?
The Red Pen
@Political Observer:
God forbid we have the strong economies of Germany or Sweden. In Germany, Walmart employees get 6 weeks of vacation by law. As a result, Walmart is teetering on bankruptcy.
sparrow
@Culture of Truth: LOL, thank you, I want to steal this description of Romney…
The Red Pen
I’ll take “Internet for $200, Alex”
@Political Observer:
What is simultaneously the most common and yet, the most pointless retort in Internet forums?
Napoleon
@BenA:
A decent chunk of those Republican governors are really really unpopular. I was convinced that my Gov. Kasich was being groomed to run in 2016 and Ohio’s governorship was how they were going to do it, but he is such damaged goods right now that the Dems have been using the guy he beat to counter him in the media. Let that sink in for a minute.
LD50
@Political Observer:
(http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/)
The Red Pen
@Political Observer:
I’m sitting in a room full of government contractors and military personnel. Which rich person should we thank?
scav
If POed really thinks (as he asserts) that the race is too close to call and we all know POed is impervious to any reality outside his own head, maybe that means he’s actually on the 50-50 point of jumping ship. poor sad little shit has lost all his BOLD and bounce, like a deflated squeekie toy.
MattR
@General Stuck:, @El Cid: Even Mitt Romne’s economic advisor understands the needs for a progressive tax code. From Up with Chris Hayes yesterday:
Real American
@Political Observer: Way to gloss over the fact that the remarks you’re citing are from 14 years ago.
Also, what’s the problem with welfare recipients voting? This is America–welfare recipients are citizens and citizens have the right to vote.
Are you so opposed to basic American values that you think using a government program should disqualify someone from voting? Should Medicare recipients not be able to vote, either?
Chris
@The Red Pen:
And which rich person does the rich person thank for his job? Is there some sort of Richest Of All Rich Guys in the universe who just lets the money trickle down from the top of Mount Olympus? Or is it – wait for it – millions and millions of those “poor” “leeches” buying the products produced by the rich man’s company (which isn’t the same thing as “produced by the rich man,” no matter how many times PJMedia might tell you otherwise?)
Chris
@Real American:
Ah, but that’s your problem; you still believe in “inalienable human rights.” The other side of the aisle doesn’t. All those “rights” are just privileges and the unwashed masses have gotten way too uppity in thinking that they were also entitled to them.
RedKitten
You know, considering how anti-government a lot of righties SAY they are…they’re awfully keen on the idea of the government taking away or preventing other peoples’ rights.
Calouste
@Political Observer:
The bookies have Obama at 1/5, Romney at 10/3. That’s 80% Obama, 20% Romney.
El Cid
@Political Observer:
I think this is a noble and bold policy proposal and should be placed at the forefront of political campaigns.
Of course, we probably should come up with some sort of detailed list of government programs or tax credits or breaks which would bar people from voting.
Lurking Canadian
@Political Observer:
Gosh, you sound so sure of that. There must be like…dozens of examples throughout history you could point to of democracies spending themselves to collapse for you to sound so sure of that, right?
MattR
@El Cid: What percent of the electorate would we remove if we start with the mortgage interest deduction? I actually paid a lower effective tax rate than Mitt Romney in 2011 because of that sucker.
catclub
i keep asking for silent banning ( the banned poster sees their own posts, but no one else does.)
but still, no joy. FP’s and coders, where are you?
El Cid
@MattR: We haven’t yet worked out what degree of largesse is permissible in order to be allowed to vote.
Personally I’m suspicious of any scheme which would allow anyone gaining less than $100 million per year to vote.
Who wants elections determined by some gym-chain-owning peasant who earns a few hundred thousand or maybe a couple million a year and deludedly thinks he’s rich because he’s got some crappy million dollar copycat insta-mansion and some poor-man’s luxury car like a Jaguar?
Can we really trust such people to decide the future of the richest, most powerful nation ever to have existed?
El Cid
@catclub: In space, no one can hear you comment.
Pinkamena Panic
Why is anyone wasting time talking to Gormless Bullshitter anyhow?
Yutsano
@RedKitten: Funny, that.
JoyfulA
@Hill Dweller: Also, Rubio claimed his parents were refugees from Castro, but they emigrated a couple of years before Castro took over. This came out in the newspapers just last year.
The family lived in Nevada and Rubio was raised Mormon. When the family moved to Florida when Rubio was a teen, the family became Catholic, but for the last decade or two, Rubio’s been attending a megachurch instead of a Catholic church.
And lots of other stuff. I think he’s practically broke.
JoyfulA
@EconWatcher: I agree about Webb. I didn’t always agree with him or his votes, but he’s always seemed honest and decent.
chopper
@Punchy:
watching obama consistently cleaning mitt’s clock i’d say it’s more like Road House.
PurpleGirl
@Mark S.: Jesus, this man is too dumb to be president.
No, this man is too dumb to live.