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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

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the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2012 / Early Morning Open Thread: The Opinionators Are Starting to Snap

Early Morning Open Thread: The Opinionators Are Starting to Snap

by Anne Laurie|  October 5, 20124:57 am| 138 Comments

This post is in: Election 2012, Open Threads

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(Jeff Danziger’s website)
__
Not quite ‘tire rims and anthrax’ quality, IMO, but I was moderately amused by Timothy Egan’s NYTimes Opinionator, “Idiots’ Delight“:

You’re an undecided voter. Your time is up. The rest of us are sick of pretending to care about you, saying nice things to you, doing your damn laundry.

Decide, O.K.? When the choice was between Scrooge McDuck and the Kenyan Socialist, you couldn’t make up your mind. Now that you know it’s between two Harvard know-it-alls, with clear, divergent views of government, you’re waiting for — what? The long-lost Mormon tablets to reappear? Donald Trump to reveal what his phantom investigators found among the birth records in Hawaii?…

And here’s what we know: there aren’t that many of you, not compared with past years. In 2008, 1 in 7 voters was persuadable at one time. This year it is closer to 1 in 20 — about 5 percent. And in your hands, the savants of politics say, rests the future of the republic…

The headline of an Associated Press story on you was typical: “Many Watch Debate; Some Are Pleased, Few Are Moved.” After the debate, a CNN focus group of your type found that eight of you were now leaning toward Romney, and eight of you were coming over to the Obama side. No real movement, in other words.

I’m going to let you in on a little secret, after many years of sitting with you during past presidential debates: we don’t like you. Not because you can’t make up your mind, but because you won’t.

Apart from people who couldn’t choose between water and sand if their crotches were set afire, what’s on the agenda for today?

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138Comments

  1. 1.

    Soonergrunt

    October 5, 2012 at 5:09 am

    I can’t remember the commedian who said it in 2008, but what he said was “to be undecided at this point is like being on an airplane and the flight attendant offers you dinner, and you ask ‘what are my choices?’ And she replies with ‘the first meal is grilled salmon, salad with vinaigrette dressing, honey glazed carrots, and a dinner roll and the second meal is a bowl of fecal matter with sprinkled bits of broken glass in it.’ and to be undecided at this point is to be the person who thinks for a moment and asks ‘what temperature is the bowl of fecal matter and broken glass?'”

  2. 2.

    CaliCat

    October 5, 2012 at 5:26 am

    I’m convinced “undecideds” are just attention whore/passive-aggressives. As long as they’re still “pondering” what to do this late in the game people pay attention to them. I use to pay a lot of attention to them. I would try to convince them to vote this way or that. What a freaking sucker I was. I’m glad there’s a backlash against their dumb-fuck asses right now. Been a long time coming.

    OT – Mitt looked high as a kite during the debate. He was talking really, really fast like he’d just snorted a fat one. Bet he’s got a Dr. Feelgood.

  3. 3.

    Joey Maloney

    October 5, 2012 at 5:42 am

    Apart from people who couldn’t choose between water and sand if their crotches were set afire, what’s on the agenda for today?

    Mind you, it would depend on the source of the fire. If it were a grease or electrical fire, you’d definitely want sand and not water.

  4. 4.

    c u n d gulag

    October 5, 2012 at 5:52 am

    @CaliCat:
    Mitt looked like the rich Wall Street exec in the after hours bar, amped-up on coke, swilling down his 13th shot of tequila to bring himself down, stridently lecturing the bartender about not holding down a responsible job like he does.

  5. 5.

    CaliCat

    October 5, 2012 at 6:00 am

    @c u n d gulag:

    Mitt looked like the rich Wall Street exec in the after hours bar, amped-up on coke, swilling down his 13th shot of tequila to bring himself down

    LOL yep! And PBO reminded me of the guy sitting at the bar trying to ignore the repetitive, belligerent drunk next to him.

  6. 6.

    raven

    October 5, 2012 at 6:06 am

    Donnie Douche is making a “serious” bet with Joe that the debate results will mean ZERO.

  7. 7.

    Shaun Appleby

    October 5, 2012 at 6:07 am

    Washington Post editorial slams Mitt’s $5 trillion tax plan.

  8. 8.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 5, 2012 at 6:21 am

    News flash: Joe Scarborough is still an asshole with his teleprompter shit, Mika is being the protoypical pearl-clutcher, and I’m heading out to Indiana for a wedding in a state park tomorrow.

    Twenty years ago this week I quit drinking. I’m starting to re-evaluate my choice on that.

    [After re-evaluating my choice.]

    Nah; they’re not worth it. Let’s get out there and kick the shit out of them.

  9. 9.

    Ejoiner

    October 5, 2012 at 6:21 am

    Mitt looked high as a kite during the debate. He was talking really, really fast like he’d just snorted a fat one. Bet he’s got a Dr. Feelgood.

    This. How many times in the past decade of electioneering have we noticed the Republican candidate looked really messed up on some drug/drink of choice? After a few times you start to think, hey, maybe I’m not crazy….

  10. 10.

    raven

    October 5, 2012 at 6:24 am

    @Mustang Bobby: Shades? Turkey Run? Brown County?

    I have 6 months to make 20 years. You don’t need that shit despite the giddiness here a BJ about booze.

  11. 11.

    kay

    October 5, 2012 at 6:32 am

    Not using the 47% in the debate was a good decision.
    Romney would have been delighted with a bigger forum to say he was “completely wrong”, so at least they denied him that.
    He had the fake apology ready to go. Had to rush over to Fox and get it in, post-debate.

  12. 12.

    amk

    October 5, 2012 at 6:32 am

    Bringing over from the dumps of last night threads.

    Vote Counting Company Tied to Romney.

    Are the dems on top of this ? This is some scary shit.

    I even mailed cole asking if he will look into this and make some noise.

  13. 13.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 5, 2012 at 6:33 am

    @raven: Spencer; McCormack’s Creek State Park. I’m gonna be right smack dab in the middle of the reddest state in the Midwest (besides Kansas) with a bunch of white heterosexual alcoholic Republicans, plus my family.

    Can you get high on club soda? Let’s find out.

  14. 14.

    TheMightyTrowel

    October 5, 2012 at 6:38 am

    Tazmania! woo! and without my laptop too! first holiday in 3 years!

  15. 15.

    amk

    October 5, 2012 at 6:39 am

    team coco’s ‘mitt’s war on the big bird’.

  16. 16.

    wasabi gasp

    October 5, 2012 at 6:39 am

    Romney doesn’t yet realize that the debate crown is his consolation prize, because it didn’t come with any rice-a-roni.

  17. 17.

    jeffreyw

    October 5, 2012 at 6:39 am

    Moar kitteh!

  18. 18.

    danielx

    October 5, 2012 at 6:42 am

    @Mustang Bobby:

    One consolation is that McCormick’s Creek really is a gorgeous park, and the weather should be sunny. The downside is that it’s going to be pretty damn chilly.

  19. 19.

    TheMightyTrowel

    October 5, 2012 at 6:46 am

    @Mustang Bobby: @raven: also congratulations to you both. that shit is hardcore.

  20. 20.

    dr. bloor

    October 5, 2012 at 6:50 am

    @CaliCat:

    I’m convinced “undecideds” are just attention whore/passive-aggressives. As long as they’re still “pondering” what to do this late in the game people pay attention to them.

    They’re incapable of that sort of guile. Think Patrick Star.

  21. 21.

    LanceThruster

    October 5, 2012 at 6:50 am

    The grass roots people here help remind me time and again, “Don’t Panic!” (Thank you, Douglas Agams). The other side will continue their ratfvcking, with their media enablers cheering them on, but it will be won in the trenches. I still hold out the hope that this can be demonstrated in the down ticket races, as there’s hardly been a better time to refudiate (thank you Snowjob Squareglasses) “double down on trickle down” wingnuttery.

    The link about Shrubya’s debate radio transmitter and the reminder of the media’s complicity lets me know to apply a double-tap philosophy across the board with this recurring Rethuglicur zombie nightmare.

    Let Joe Scarborough continue to fellate the memory of St. Ronnie in his dreams of a greater America as the rest of us rally as the band of brothers and sisters who care and look out for each other. I do not begrudge anyone their prosperity, as long as it does not come from trampling their neighbor into the dirt.

  22. 22.

    tjmn

    October 5, 2012 at 6:52 am

    Progressive Alaska has pictures of Mitt whipping out his…hankerchief at the debate podium. It looks strangely square. Sorry that I can’t get the link.

  23. 23.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 5, 2012 at 6:52 am

    @danielx: Coming from South Florida, I’m bringing my ski parka. Actually, I’m taking a sweater and my Toledo Mud Hens jacket.

  24. 24.

    Enhanced Voting techniques

    October 5, 2012 at 6:55 am

    So Romney then brings up 47%, excellent political instincts Mittens.

  25. 25.

    wrb

    October 5, 2012 at 6:57 am

    @amk:

    It does sound like noise could be needed.

    That is scary.

  26. 26.

    LanceThruster

    October 5, 2012 at 6:58 am

    @amk:

    This is some serious shit. It’s bad enough the brazenly open voter suppression drives by state entities, complete with promises of delivering results, but this feels like deja vu all over again. Where are the federal jack-booted thugs to stomp this kind of thing out when you need them?

  27. 27.

    Princess

    October 5, 2012 at 6:58 am

    @CaliCat: Mormons have strict prohibitions against alcohol and caffeine, as we know, but not, apparently, against amusing pharmaceuticals. It would irresponsible not to speculate.

  28. 28.

    CaliCat

    October 5, 2012 at 7:00 am

    @dr. bloor:

    They’re incapable of that sort of guile. Think Patrick Star.

    Indeed! I had to google him and then I LOL’d.

  29. 29.

    Valdivia

    October 5, 2012 at 7:00 am

    I also see Mitt is going to give yet another ground breaking foreign policy address on Monday, can’t wait! He really knows how to step over himself every time.

    Also–according to TPM Romney spent hours practicing his smile. Please shoot me now.

    BTW–Shanghai is the strangest combination of 21st century and 19th, coexisting on the same street. Yesterday I saw a guy driving a moped in his pijamas.

  30. 30.

    LanceThruster

    October 5, 2012 at 7:02 am

    @Princess:

    Even Prozac (Utah’s favorite candy) can give you a manic lift, particulalry in its early administration.

  31. 31.

    Joey Maloney

    October 5, 2012 at 7:06 am

    How the moped got in his pajamas we’ll never know! /groucho

  32. 32.

    CaliCat

    October 5, 2012 at 7:07 am

    @Princess:

    It would irresponsible not to speculate.

    Normally, I refrain from making these types of insinuations but Mitt had the signs. Let’s just say he was more than a little perky.

  33. 33.

    CaliCat

    October 5, 2012 at 7:11 am

    @Valdivia:

    Also—according to TPM Romney spent hours practicing his smile

    OMG! For real? HAHAHAHAHAHA!

  34. 34.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 7:14 am

    Anyone considered the possibility of an October surprise b/w now and next debate? I had to wonder.

    Not that Mitt hasn’t been hit relentlessly already. But yet another disaster can’t hurt.

  35. 35.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 7:15 am

    @Enhanced Voting techniques: That is just fucking hilarious.

  36. 36.

    Valdivia

    October 5, 2012 at 7:16 am

    @CaliCat:

    I refused to link the Politico piece but yes, it seems it was hours and hours of practicing demeanor and likable smile and the result was him at the debate.

    Just incredible.

  37. 37.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 7:16 am

    @jeffreyw: Lil black thing with white whiskers and a very surprised, adorable expression! “WTF are you people doing?”

    Moar kitteh? Can there ever be enough?

  38. 38.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 7:18 am

    @Valdivia: I kept saying, he’s gonna lose his cool. The anger and resentment, sense of entitlement, runs just beneath the surface. Every time Obama started speaking, Mitt started doing the lizard-eye blinking constantly.

  39. 39.

    dr. bloor

    October 5, 2012 at 7:19 am

    @Joey Maloney:

    How the moped got in his pajamas we’ll never know! /groucho

    This post is not getting nearly enough love.

  40. 40.

    max

    October 5, 2012 at 7:19 am

    I’m going to let you in on a little secret, after many years of sitting with you during past presidential debates: we don’t like you. Not because you can’t make up your mind, but because you won’t.

    Well, putting aside the fact 50% of people are below average, and 100% of people are below average at something, and the undecided folks are probably not paying attention or have made up their minds and just aren’t happy about it… well, those people don’t like you either, I imagine.

    This might have something to do with not being the sort of people who manage to get paid for swanning ridiculously after every micro-trend and shift in the wind, like a six-year-old jacked up on coke.

    max
    [‘Consider relaxing.’]

  41. 41.

    amk

    October 5, 2012 at 7:20 am

    @wrb:

    @LanceThruster:

    Yup. I wouldn’t put it past this bain fucker to steal the votes with these fucking machines.

  42. 42.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 7:21 am

    @CaliCat:

    I’m convinced “undecideds” are just attention whore/passive-aggressives.

    I think you’re right. And I know I’m one of those who is sick of hearing about them and their little handkerchief waving shit

  43. 43.

    amk

    October 5, 2012 at 7:27 am

    @max: You make them sound as if they are an enlightened species when in reality they are either clueless or simply lazy.

  44. 44.

    JPL

    October 5, 2012 at 7:28 am

    @jeffreyw: One of my sons and his cat stayed with me in between jobs for awhile. Although I pleased that my son is doing okay and living on his own, I miss the darn cat.

  45. 45.

    Valdivia

    October 5, 2012 at 7:31 am

    @hep kitty:

    I am hoping it happens on the last debate. Also–the next one is a town hall, not the best format for mr practice humanity on a mirror!

  46. 46.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    October 5, 2012 at 7:32 am

    @hep kitty:

    Anyone considered the possibility of an October surprise b/w now and next debate? I had to wonder.

    Absolutely. But it won’t be a surprise because the Romney campaign IS the disaster. Watch closely and you will see they never miss an opportunity to screw the pooch. And I also like to keep in mind that Obama and his team are great counterpunchers.

  47. 47.

    amk

    October 5, 2012 at 7:36 am

    grey lady – Fucking teabagger congress critters in big trouble, especially in swing votes.

  48. 48.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 7:38 am

    @Valdivia: I agree, I feel the townhall format would benefit Obama greatly and cripple Mitt, watch for lots of shifty lizard eye stuff

  49. 49.

    Evinfuilt

    October 5, 2012 at 7:44 am

    @dr. bloor:
    I’m sleepy beyond belief, trying to eat breakfast and then I read that. Had trouble keeping myself composed due to laughing. Thank you for that humor, and yes, I think you’re right. They’re not attention seekers, they’re just plain ol dumb,

  50. 50.

    aimai

    October 5, 2012 at 7:48 am

    @LanceThruster:
    Yeah and the first two years are a bitch, before the midterms.

    aimai

  51. 51.

    jeffreyw

    October 5, 2012 at 7:48 am

    @JPL: The little black kitty is available, as far as I know!

  52. 52.

    danielx

    October 5, 2012 at 7:49 am

    It’s Friday morning, and that means it’s time for yet another David Brooks masterpiece. This one, entitled “Moderate Mitt Returns!”, is almost embarrassing. Must have been a lot of discarded kleenex in the Brooks household Wednesday night. This column is a display of self-deception and wankery rare even in a David Brooks column, and that’s setting a pretty high bar.

    Consider this statement:

    Most important, Romney did something no other mainstream Republican has had the guts to do. Either out of conviction or political desperation, he broke with Tea Party orthodoxy and began to redefine the Republican identity. And, having taken this step, he’s broken the spell. Conservatives loved it! They loved that it was effective, and it was effective because Romney could more authentically be the man who (I think) he truly is.

    Who are these conservatives of which you speak? It sure as shit isn’t Rick Santorum, or Ann Coulter, or Rush Limbaugh, or Grover Norquist, or any of the other Republican standard bearers we all know and love so well.

    Let me remove any hint of confusion for you, David – it most definitely was political desperation. It certainly wasn’t conviction, as the Marquis doesn’t have any political convictions except that he is supposed to be President because he is supposed to be President.

    If you think he’s broken the spell of the Tea Party and begun to redefine the Republican Party you are deluded, David; that’s putting it kindly. Romney’s political pragmatism reversing the effects of thirty years’ worth of the mighty Wurlitzer pouring toxic shit into the ears and minds of Republican voters? Pull the other one, it’s got bells on. The only political pragmatism being displayed by the Marquis is that which is required to try to get elected. He got where he is today with the (very) grudging acquiescence and votes of some Tea Partiers – and he didn’t get those votes because they liked him. He got them because he was the most electable of the weakest field of candidates the Republican Party has fielded in my lifetime, and he most certainly is not going to get to walk away from the promises and commitments he had to make to get those votes.

    Then there’s this jewel:

    Far from being a lackey to the rich, Romney vowed that rich people will not see tax bills go down under a Romney administration.

    Really? David, has Romney’s running mate’s budget plan, to which he has committed, somehow escaped your piercing eye and intellect? It’s right there in black and white – top marginal income-tax rate for “job creators” to 25 percent and paying for it with an as-yet-undisclosed plan to broaden the tax base. Has this plan become non-operative? Did you forget about it, flush it down a convenient memory hole…what? Jesus Christ, David, your new BFF Mitt, along with the rest of your Republican Party is out to fuck working class Americans, repeatedly and without lubricant. They think teachers are the enemy, along with every government employee who receives a pension. They cheer out loud the idea that uninsured people should die. Did all this somehow escape your notice? Do you think those opinions magically changed because those voters loved what they heard? (I want some of whatever mood elevators you’re on, by the way. You can tell me; I won’t blab.)

    Never mind, it’s okay, we all understand. When you hear statements that resound of “centrism” coming from a Republican candidate, it causes the blood to rush to a portion of your anatomy well-separated from your brain, and this has deleterious effects on your memory and cognitive abilities. I’d say God help Mrs. Brooks on these occasions, but she’s no doubt nauseatingly familiar with this syndrome. Because centrism. Or something.

  53. 53.

    jibeaux

    October 5, 2012 at 7:53 am

    @CaliCat: See, I’m glad I’m not the only one out of sync with the mainstream narrative. People whose opinions I trust thought he looked good, too, but I thought he sounded like a squirrel tweaking on meth.

  54. 54.

    ExurbanMom

    October 5, 2012 at 7:53 am

    A couple of my friends always say “I’m going to vote for the best person for the job, not the political party.”

    It makes me stabby when people haven’t thought about politics enough to know the difference between Ds and Rs on most issues, and have taken a side. Sure, you might be more in the middle on a few things, but really, there’s a clear choice in front of you. Make a choice.

  55. 55.

    jeffreyw

    October 5, 2012 at 7:53 am

    Moar puppehs!

  56. 56.

    raven

    October 5, 2012 at 7:55 am

    @TheMightyTrowel: It’s just normal.

  57. 57.

    Soonergrunt

    October 5, 2012 at 7:58 am

    @Enhanced Voting techniques: Yup. NOBODY believes him when he says he cares about them, so nothing was gained. But it did put the subject back into the news cycle, and give a chance for some enterprising Dem who can throw a couple of elbows (cough, Joe Biden, cough) to point out how Rmoney was really comfortable and genuine in that group of rich people when he didn’t know there was a camera on him, and how stiff and wooden and over rehearsed he looked in yesterday’s self refutation.

  58. 58.

    amk

    October 5, 2012 at 7:58 am

    @danielx: Excellent rant.

  59. 59.

    Southern Beale

    October 5, 2012 at 7:59 am

    We’re exporting workplace shootings now. Huzzah.

    I guess Americans’ international reputation for being violent and mentally unstable is now secured.

  60. 60.

    Applejinx

    October 5, 2012 at 7:59 am

    @raven:
    Fuck me, really?
    I just celebrated 20 years late last month. How many of us ARE there on this blog?

    …oh hey guys I have a REALLY GREAT idea!

    Romney’s backers should pull all their money out of downticket races, and throw it 110% behind Mitt, blanketing the nation with billions of prime time ads in which Mitt is really REALLY TOUGH! Clearly it was his aggressive attack mode that turned everything around, right?

    CLEARLY when Mitt wins the whole thing in a landslide he will have the enormous coattails of a true white man and all the downticket guys will ride to victory on his massive shoulders. Right? Who’s with me?

    It’s time for MITTMENTUM! All the polls mean nothing, massive corporate cash will win this for the Mittster, and Mitt will carry the Senate and the House with his pure manly charisma!

    :D

    (oh please oh PLEASE let them run with this…)

  61. 61.

    jibeaux

    October 5, 2012 at 8:03 am

    @ExurbanMom: It kills me when people say they’re voting the person, not the party. If you’re choosing a surgeon, absolutely, choose the person, not their political party. But you’re choosing a POLITICIAN.

  62. 62.

    raven

    October 5, 2012 at 8:04 am

    @Applejinx: Some people wake up.

  63. 63.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    October 5, 2012 at 8:06 am

    @kay: Exactly.

    Romney spent the entire debate reinventing himself and bringing up any of his past positions would just give him an opening to spew some new BS about each point you brought up.

    The pundit and press derby about debates is focused on one thing, namely who’s the most aggressive, which they refer to as “confident”. Sarah Palin’s 2008 convention acceptance speech is a good example, the Village was ready to make her President right then and there, “hit it outta the park!” was the line you kept hearing.

    It’s a one-data-point measurement, the most aggressive (ooh, “confident”!) always wins, and it has almost nothing to do with who’s more likely to vote for anyone as President.

    I remember when George W Bush got absolutely demolished in three debates in a row, coming across almost literally as a dribbling moron. Didn’t matter, I’d read interviews with voters saying well, we don’t elect him to engage in debates.

    I think undecided voters are probably about as tribal as everyone else, they’re just being drama queens about it before deciding.

  64. 64.

    jeffreyw

    October 5, 2012 at 8:07 am

    Even moar kitteh!

  65. 65.

    danielx

    October 5, 2012 at 8:08 am

    @Southern Beale:

    Hey, it’s what we do. Everybody has to be good at something – we’re good at senseless applied violence even if we’re not very good at much else, internationally speaking.

    Actually, I dislike the phrases “senseless violence” and “senseless crime”. Ain’t no such animal, it always makes complete sense to the freak who carries out the actions.

  66. 66.

    vtr

    October 5, 2012 at 8:08 am

    I would guess that a large portion of the undecided voter group comprises folks who wake up in the middle of the night cursing the Jets for wasting that draft pick, but I do have a couple of questions.

    Has anyone seen an estimate of how many undecideds watched or heard Wednesday’s debate?

    Why does Ross Douthat have a job?

  67. 67.

    NotMax

    October 5, 2012 at 8:09 am

    Leave us not forget that these are the same folks (presumably who have not been paying attention) who will be asking questions at the Oct. 16 debate in New York (Candy Crowley as moderator).

    Voters will be allowed to ask questions directly of each candidate on both foreign and domestic issues. Each candidate will have 2 minutes to respond. The voters will be chosen by the Gallup polling organization, and are expected to be undecided on their choice of president.  Source   [emphasis mine]

    The difference between open-minded and empty-headed narrows.

  68. 68.

    Napoleon

    October 5, 2012 at 8:10 am

    @kay:

    Not only that but every newscast I watched mentioned that he did not mention it. So they got the talking heads to run with the story anyways.

  69. 69.

    Jack Canuck

    October 5, 2012 at 8:14 am

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    Tassie’s fantastic, went down there a couple years ago, and we’ve wanted to get back ever since. One of these days, hopefully. South coast of WA is gorgeous too, if you’re ever out that way.

  70. 70.

    kd bart

    October 5, 2012 at 8:21 am

    The joy that Mitt showed in telling Jim Lehrer that Big Bird and he were gone if he became President illustrated how much he really loves to fire people.

  71. 71.

    Todd

    October 5, 2012 at 8:21 am

    A couple of quick observations, since I’ve been digesting the debate over the past couple of days (didn’t watch, because I didn’t feel like a needless blood pressure spike; sound and optics are meaningless for my personal processing of content).

    1. The joygasm of the wingtards is real. They are authoritarians, and fall in line immediately when someone displays swagger, regardless of how ridiculous the basis for the swagger is. These are the same morons who think that John Wayne was a great actor, that smarmy portrayals of wholesome white men of business, the military or the old West was how it really was, and that the reason that the Berlin Wall came down was that Ronald Reagan issued a few forceful, yet tremblingly delivered words. Hell, these people think of John Bolton as a great diplomat because he treats other UN ambassadors like dirt.

    2. I blame Calvinist Christianity for the attitude on the right toward those afflicted by illness, structural unemployment, and temporary problems. Calvinist doctrine seems to destroy empathy, in that the victims apparently deserved their fate.

  72. 72.

    Steeplejack

    October 5, 2012 at 8:23 am

    @jeffreyw:

    OMG! A reverse Kitler!

  73. 73.

    Cassidy

    October 5, 2012 at 8:25 am

    If these pundits don’t stop knob-slobbering, Ann is gonna get jealous that she can’t please her man like they can.

    How’s that for your Friday morning imagery? Savor it. It’ll pop back up at lunch.

  74. 74.

    NotMax

    October 5, 2012 at 8:26 am

    @kd bart

    Until he can quip that the stack of pink slips is just the right height.

  75. 75.

    NonyNony

    October 5, 2012 at 8:26 am

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    I think undecided voters are probably about as tribal as everyone else, they’re just being drama queens about it before deciding.

    I’ve become convinced that there are very, very, very few people who are actually so undecided that they are really persuadable either way. Those folks are near mythical creatures like Bigfoot or unicorns. Or maybe more like a coelacanth (they exist, but they’re so rare that it’s easy to believe that they don’t). I know they exist for downticket races, but I don’t think they exist for national races.

    I’m beginning to think that most undecided voters can be swayed in one direction. What they’re on the fence about is whether they’re going to vote at all. It isn’t a choice between Romney vs. Obama – it’s a choice between voting for Romney or not bothering to vote, or a choice between voting for Obama or not bothering to vote.

    I’m also starting to think that the undecided “swing” voters who have infested our political narratives for the past 50 years are an artifact of the partisan realignment that has been going on since the Civil Rights Act was signed. It was much easier to be a swing voter when the parties weren’t so ideological in the early 20th century. These days the two parties are so far apart in terms of basic worldview that it’s difficult to sustain the illusion that you can really vote for either party depending on who they front.

  76. 76.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 8:28 am

    @Todd: You know, you’re absolutely right, esp. #2

  77. 77.

    NonyNony

    October 5, 2012 at 8:29 am

    @Todd:

    I blame Calvinist Christianity for the attitude on the right toward those afflicted by illness, structural unemployment, and temporary problems. Calvinist doctrine seems to destroy empathy, in that the victims apparently deserved their fate.

    You have to ask yourself – which came first, assholes or Calvinism?

    Calvinism of that stripe is a justification for being an asshole. It doesn’t cause people to become assholes – it’s a belief system that assholes gravitate towards because it validates their worldview. It’s also historically unpopular (and often had to be literally forced on populations against their own will) because most people actually don’t like assholes.

    It’s similar to Ayn Rand in that way. Rand’s garbage doesn’t turn people into assholes, it just provides a justification and validation for people who already suck to continue to suck and feel superior about it.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    October 5, 2012 at 8:30 am

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Romney spent the entire debate reinventing himself and bringing up any of his past positions would just give him an opening to spew some new BS about each point you brought up.

    I don’t think “he’s lying” on his own changed positions would have worked either, because they’re all proposals. He’d simply say “I won’t do that” (which is what he said, on tax cuts that increase the deficit). If it’s fact (“my plan covers people with pre-existing conditions”) then calling out the lie works, but other than that he’s simply going to deny, as he did.
    There’s another problem with calling him out on his complete reversal… on everything.. Media interpret that as “moving to the middle” and media already believe he’s a moderate who is faking severe conservative” to fool his base. That’s his out. He’s simply “moving to the middle”. It fits the story they have been telling about him. I don’t think it’s true, but they did, and do.

  79. 79.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 5, 2012 at 8:31 am

    @amk: While this is theoretically possible, it would be harder to do than most people think. Voting machines are tested a few days before the election to ensure that they record the correct votes in their memory units. Following this, the memory units are sealed into the machines with a tamper evident seal. The memory units are self-contained and do not have any interface with the outside world. Could someone mess with one or a few? Sure, but it is likely to leave a trail and it would not be easy.

    If you want something to worry about and work on, voter suppression is a better target.

  80. 80.

    Johannes

    October 5, 2012 at 8:32 am

    @Applejinx: Fifteen years in June. Many more 24!

  81. 81.

    Svensker

    October 5, 2012 at 8:33 am

    @vtr:

    I would guess that a large portion of the undecided voter group comprises folks who wake up in the middle of the night cursing the Jets for wasting that draft pick

    Half of Jersey is undecided? Who knew?

  82. 82.

    jurassicpork

    October 5, 2012 at 8:34 am

    Mike Flannigan weighs in on the debate in Sound Minus the Fury.

  83. 83.

    butler

    October 5, 2012 at 8:35 am

    NEW JOBS Report: 114k new jobs, and unemployment falls to 7.8%.

  84. 84.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 5, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Unemployment rate dropped to 7.8% (just heard on Current TV).

  85. 85.

    NotMax

    October 5, 2012 at 8:36 am

    @Omnes Omnibus

    Problem #1 was, and remains, that the programming and coding of the units is proprietary and contractually exempt from independent scrutiny and testing.

  86. 86.

    maurinsky

    October 5, 2012 at 8:38 am

    @ExurbanMom: It makes me stabby when people haven’t thought about politics enough to know the difference between Ds and Rs on most issues, and have taken a side. Sure, you might be more in the middle on a few things, but really, there’s a clear choice in front of you. Make a choice.

    This drives me nuts, too. I have a couple of friends who are flirting with voting for Linda McMahon because “wouldn’t it be great to have a pro-choice woman in the Senate, even if she’s a Republican?” They clearly don’t understand how it works on the national level – even if she voted in favor of pro-choice bills, it’s like spitting into the wind. What good will it do? Not to mention that she won’t get put on committees if she doesn’t toe the party line.

  87. 87.

    Cassidy

    October 5, 2012 at 8:39 am

    @maurinsky: Isn’t she a full fledged nut-bagger? Wouldn’t that be like voting for Charles Manson becaus ehe thinks gay marriage is cool?

  88. 88.

    SenyorDave

    October 5, 2012 at 8:41 am

    Also note that 86,000 more Jobs created in Jul and Aug than originally estimated. I know (and hope) that the Republicans will start crying foul about the re-estimate (which is ans has been SOP for the BLS).

  89. 89.

    NotMax

    October 5, 2012 at 8:42 am

    maurinsky

    Performing a litmus test on effluent doesn’t disguise that it is is still sewage water.

  90. 90.

    sparrow

    October 5, 2012 at 8:43 am

    @jeffreyw: I want one!

  91. 91.

    Kay

    October 5, 2012 at 8:45 am

    @NonyNony:

    I’ve become convinced that there are very, very, very few people who are actually so undecided that they are really persuadable either way.

    Agreed. I think pollsters should ask them one more question, “who do you mostly vote for, Republicans or Democrats?”
    They always know, when asked, and I think it’s more than likely they’re going in that direction again.
    I went to an event at the senior center yesterday and I had this exact encounter. Man approaches, says he “votes both ways” I let it hang there, say nothing, he then adds “I usually end up voting for the Democrat”.
    I also had an encounter with a birther, which was disturbing. He picked up the Obama lit, and dropped it. Then he hissed at me “the President doesn’t even have a valid birth certificate”. His hands were shaking. He was enraged. He went from zero to 60 on the rage meter in 5 seconds. I happened to be standing next to one of the candidates for sheriff and I could feel his cop-radar kick in. He was on full lunatic alert :)
    I’ve read as much as anyone else on birthers, but I’ve never actually encountered one before. It’s a full-blown mental illness.

  92. 92.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 5, 2012 at 8:45 am

    Some of these undecided voters may not really be undecided but just trolling the pollsters.

  93. 93.

    kd bart

    October 5, 2012 at 8:47 am

    Wasn’t there a revision about 3-4 weeks ago that added 300-400K jobs for earlier in the year? Perhaps these revisions account for the .3% drop

  94. 94.

    NotMax

    October 5, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Trivia time:

    There has been a grand total of 2 people who were 65 or older when inaugurated president. James Buchanan and Ronald Reagan.

    Mitt turned 65 last March.

  95. 95.

    Or something like that.Suffern Ace

    October 5, 2012 at 8:50 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Not great. Not horrible. Obama:”Steady progress”. Romney: “it should be three times as high.”

  96. 96.

    Steeplejack

    October 5, 2012 at 8:51 am

    @JPL:

    There are plenty of shelter cats who would love a home.

  97. 97.

    danielx

    October 5, 2012 at 8:54 am

    @jeffreyw:

    A perfect calico, but…

    the boss would not approve.

  98. 98.

    butler

    October 5, 2012 at 8:54 am

    @kd bart: I don’t recall an adjustment like that. But part of it is just seasonal: the labor force denominator is naturally bigger in the summer, so even with no actual growth the rate will drop in the fall.

  99. 99.

    Steeplejack

    October 5, 2012 at 8:57 am

    @amk:

    Linky no work. I fix: “In Iowa and Beyond, Redrawn Districts Test Favorites of Tea Party.”

  100. 100.

    NotMax

    October 5, 2012 at 8:58 am

    @NotMax

    Correction. I always forget of Wm. Harrison, who of course was inaugurated, but did little else but fall ill, give a lengthy address, and expire.

    So that’s 3.

  101. 101.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 5, 2012 at 9:00 am

    @CaliCat: It looked creepy. Plus, Mitt looked old and tired.

  102. 102.

    pattonbt

    October 5, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Can I just pre-empt the VP debate build up now. VP debates have zero value. Biden could strip naked, roll around in a tub of jello and peanut butter while praising Allah, and Ryan could become Jesus on stage and it still wont move the needle either way.

    VP debates are the most useless thing in the world. The single greatest debate moment in the last 50 years was in the VP debates (Bentson) and they got their assess handed to them.

    So you know, right now, Biden will “lose” no matter how the debate goes. The game is rigged and boy blunder will “win” because shut up thats why. The village needs Ryan to win so he will. But it wont mean a damn thing. So work out any potential BS emo baggage you might have now and move along like nothing happened (and enjoy the show Biden does put on).

  103. 103.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 5, 2012 at 9:07 am

    @Mustang Bobby: Next year in April, I have to go to India for the first anniversary of my father-in-law’s passing. They are Tamil Brahmins, orthodox and rigid about following all traditions. Vegetarian and teetotalers, these ceremonies are going to take four days. Knowing my mother-in-law those days are going be hellicious, I did not go for the funeral, I don’t know if I can avoid this event. Even thinking about it makes me tense.

    Good luck!

  104. 104.

    NotMax

    October 5, 2012 at 9:09 am

    @pattonbt

    Bentsen’s moment was pure 24 karat gold, and remains memorable.

    Second place would have to go to Stockdale’s “Who am I? Why am I here” opening.

  105. 105.

    amk

    October 5, 2012 at 9:09 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    the memory units are sealed into the machines with a tamper evident seal.

    If you can put that in a tamper-proof sealed box and give it to me, I’ll be happy to relax.

  106. 106.

    jeffreyw

    October 5, 2012 at 9:14 am

    @danielx:
    A purrrfect calico will help you keep your nose clean.

  107. 107.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 5, 2012 at 9:17 am

    @jeffreyw: aaawww she lubs you! What a sweet photo. How is Homer kitteh these days?

  108. 108.

    jeffreyw

    October 5, 2012 at 9:21 am

    @schrodinger’s cat: Homerkitty has become quite the considerate gentleman. With occasional lapses.

  109. 109.

    elmo

    October 5, 2012 at 9:24 am

    @maurinsky:

    Tell ’em that politics is not like fantasy football – you don’t get to pick the players you like to make up your own teams. Politics is entirely a team sport. You want the Giants? The only way to get the Giants is to vote for Eli Manning, even if you despise the entitled little prick. There is no way, in politics as in football, to create your own fantasy team comprised of “the best people for the job.” Because ultimately the only way things get done in Washington is by the teams, not the people.

  110. 110.

    Original Lee

    October 5, 2012 at 10:05 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I am more worried about vote count fraud when the totals are transmitted up the chain than I am about fraud in individual booths.

    (Mis-clicked to Johanne’s comment. Sorry.)

  111. 111.

    Original Lee

    October 5, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Whoops, sorry, that should have been Omnes Omnibus.

  112. 112.

    bemused

    October 5, 2012 at 10:09 am

    @jeffreyw:

    Totally adorable. I keep going back to look at his/her face. I’m smitten with that kitten.

  113. 113.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 5, 2012 at 10:13 am

    @Original Lee: The tallies are recorded at each level. This means that, if someone does mess with the numbers, the evidence is likely to be there. I am not going to say that it can’t be done, but, as I suggested above, worry and effort would be more profitably expended on fighting voter suppression.

  114. 114.

    jeffreyw

    October 5, 2012 at 10:20 am

    @bemused: The shelter is having a special on kittehs. Give ’em a call: (618) 687-2079

  115. 115.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 5, 2012 at 10:22 am

    @NotMax:

    Problem #1 was, and remains, that the programming and coding of the units is proprietary and contractually exempt from independent scrutiny and testing.

    Just off the top of my head, there are a few simple but non-obvious checks you’d have to run against those voting machines before you certified them, since you have no access to the source code.

    E.g., even someone like me (out of programming for decades) could easily write a vote-reallocation subroutine that the main program would only call when the internal date stamp is the same as Election Day. A test run on any other date would produce valid results, but on the one day that matters, fraud ensues. The only way to surface this without access to the source code would be to reset the internal date stamp to E-day before testing it.

    And that’s a trivial example. I can’t even guess at how many other ways clever programming might ensure that a vote-altering program only did its dirty work when no one’s watching…

  116. 116.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 5, 2012 at 10:23 am

    @Original Lee:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Another aspect of this is that due to its nature messing with the machines would only be effective at the margins. If you change a few votes, you might get away with it; if you turn NYC red, you’ll get caught. GOTV and fighting voter suppression will keep people from considering messing with the machines. Don’t let the election be close enough to steal.

  117. 117.

    Maude

    October 5, 2012 at 10:28 am

    @jeffreyw:
    Stomach virus will get you out of anything.
    Would I use that? Yes, in a heartbeat.

  118. 118.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 5, 2012 at 10:31 am

    @Uncle Cosmo: Comment #115 ETA: No automated system should be allowed to count a single vote unless its source code is publicly available, reloaded & recompiled for every use, & exhaustively verified just before the machine is sealed against tampering–otherwise this democracy is put at dire risk.

    (Fucking WP keeps informing me that I do not have the right to edit my own comments…)

  119. 119.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 5, 2012 at 10:33 am

    @jeffreyw: You do realize that every Chinese restaurant within a 10-mile radius will now be making that phone ring off the hook…

  120. 120.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 5, 2012 at 10:58 am

    @Uncle Cosmo: Wisconsin basically requires this. The source code, etc., must be placed in escrow. The concerns that you have noted were also noted by people in election admin.

  121. 121.

    Ruckus

    October 5, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Apart from people who couldn’t choose between water and sand if their crotches were set afire, what’s on the agenda for today?

    Well for right now I am enjoying that line.

  122. 122.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 11:12 am

    @jeffreyw: Would you stop it?? I’m beginning to lose my resolve to not get another kitteh right now and you keep hitting me with the cute, not just your ordinary cute, but damned cute. You’re wearing me down! :)

  123. 123.

    hep kitty

    October 5, 2012 at 11:14 am

    @bemused: Look away, look away! Lest you lose your very soul! Looking directly into kitten face can steal your soul, you know.

  124. 124.

    Ruckus

    October 5, 2012 at 11:17 am

    @The Ancient Randonneur:
    Watch closely and you will see they never miss an opportunity to screw the pooch.

    Are you saying that mittshit practices bestiality? We know he doesn’t seem to give a damn about the family pet, are you saying he really does?

  125. 125.

    Kerry Reid

    October 5, 2012 at 11:32 am

    @Mustang Bobby: Indiana: Kentucky Without The Charm

  126. 126.

    Ruckus

    October 5, 2012 at 11:37 am

    To me Obama had little to gain (as much as we wanted him to beat down mittshit) and a lot to lose.
    Mittshit on the other hand had to gain everything, his was a must win night. And that he didn’t do.
    Now the president has much to talk about, another 180 mitt-turn, is mittshit lying about what he believes now or what he believed yesterday?
    Mittshit didn’t do himself any favors Wed, he still is a useless, entitled, rich prick who doesn’t like anyone not named r-money. Wait I miss-spelled that it’s romney, no I was right the first time it’s r-money.

  127. 127.

    Yutsano

    October 5, 2012 at 11:38 am

    @jeffreyw: Calico! WANT!!

  128. 128.

    Origuy

    October 5, 2012 at 11:48 am

    @Mustang Bobby:

    Spencer; McCormack’s Creek State Park. I’m gonna be right smack dab in the middle of the reddest state in the Midwest (besides Kansas) with a bunch of white heterosexual alcoholic Republicans, plus my family.

    My sister was married there about 18 years ago this time of year. They’re still together. It was a mixed marriage and the rabbi got lost coming from Indy. We were wondering if he would arrive before the rain. After the reception, you could tell which side my family (mostly Church of Christ) sat at; the bottles of wine were barely touched.

  129. 129.

    Mino

    October 5, 2012 at 11:56 am

    @amk: Interesting addition to the voting machine question. The MSM has decided not to do exit polling in 19 states on election night.

  130. 130.

    Another Halocene Human

    October 5, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    @Kay:

    Then he hissed at me “the President doesn’t even have a valid birth certificate”. His hands were shaking. He was enraged. He went from zero to 60 on the rage meter in 5 seconds. I happened to be standing next to one of the candidates for sheriff and I could feel his cop-radar kick in. He was on full lunatic alert :)
    I’ve read as much as anyone else on birthers, but I’ve never actually encountered one before. It’s a full-blown mental illness.

    So, it’s possible what you’re seeing is a hormone spike as this part or function of the brain that punishes people who violate the social order is engaged. Testosterone is involved.

    The sad thing is that it is misdirected, ie instead of becoming outraged at, say, politicians lying us into a needless war, he gets outraged that a Ni*CLANG* is president. There’s no morality behind it, just outdated mores.

    It’s pathetic. It’s very small, and very sad.

    Maybe that dude will give himself a stroke watching POTUS on the teevee box and put us out of his misery.

  131. 131.

    Another Halocene Human

    October 5, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    @pattonbt: Hey, after all this Big O debate stress we need a lighter moment.

    I’m hoping Biden will Ted-Kennedy-vs-Mitt Lyin’ Ryan with a grin on his face, slicing him to ribbons with his samurai steel and five-pointed-water-style-dancing-crow-technique before Ryan even knows he’s cut. Hehehehe.

  132. 132.

    JustRuss

    October 5, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    I have a friend who’s undecided. She’s not stupid, she just doesn’t really care about politics, and is only now paying attention to the candidates. She loves guns but she loves science too, so I could see her going either way, especially with Mitt cranking the Etch-a-Sketch to Moderate.

    I think Mitt’s cynical ploy will find some success among the “I should vote but don’t care enough to really research the candidates” crowd. Hopefully it won’t be enough to get him to the White House.

  133. 133.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 5, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Excellent! Let it serve as the standard (or a good first step on the way to a standard) for the entire nation.

    (FTR I had no illusions of being the first person who thought along these lines, but I’d rather have this sort of thing aired twice or a dozen or a hundred times than take the chance everyone would assume it was so obvious it wasn’t worth mentioning. To quote Billy Joel, “I have been a fool for lesser things.”)

  134. 134.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 5, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    @Another Halocene Human: I like the old screwdriver-to-the-navel approach: Your opponent doesn’t realize he’s been taken apart until he tries to stand up–& his arse falls off…

  135. 135.

    Uncle Cosmo

    October 5, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    @NotMax: Sounds like President Harrisons never do diddley in office:

    Higgledy piggledy,
    Benjamin Harrison
    Twenty-third president
    Was, and, as such,

    Served between Clevelands and
    Save for this trivial
    Idiosyncrasy,
    Didn’t do much.

    One of the classic double dactyls by John Hollander.

  136. 136.

    Another Halocene Human

    October 5, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: Better analogy. You win.

    Although I was probably unconsciously channeling the end of Kill Bill II, where the death blow looks like a love tap.

  137. 137.

    Fifi

    October 5, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    @Soonergrunt:

    I can’t remember the commedian who said it in 2008, but what he said was “to be undecided at this point is like being on an airplane and the flight attendant offers you dinner, and you ask ‘what are my choices?’ And she replies with ‘the first meal is grilled salmon, salad with vinaigrette dressing, honey glazed carrots, and a dinner roll and the second meal is a bowl of fecal matter with sprinkled bits of broken glass in it.’ and to be undecided at this point is to be the person who thinks for a moment and asks ‘what temperature is the bowl of fecal matter and broken glass?’”

    That was David Sedaris, about the 2004 election

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij1JKm25kHo

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