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You are here: Home / Open Threads / I watched with glee while your kings and queens fought for ten decades for the gods they made

I watched with glee while your kings and queens fought for ten decades for the gods they made

by DougJ|  October 5, 20123:39 pm| 120 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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There’s one way in which I am very much like George Will. I call myself an agnostic because I’m not decisive enough to be an atheist. I tend to believe that organized religion is at best the opiate of the masses, and, at worst, another way for the overlords to persuade one half of the plebes to fight with the other half of the plebes. You don’t have to agree with me, but this is certainly a good example of the latter:

This is a religious country. Part of claiming your citizenship is claiming a belief in God, even if you are not Christian.. We’ve got the Creator in our Declaration of Independence. We’ve got “In God We Trust” on our coins. We’ve got “one nation under God” in our Pledge of Allegiance. And we say prayers in the Senate and the House of Representatives to God.

An atheist could never get elected dog catcher, much less president. (Democratic Rep. Pete Stark of California is a nontheist but doesn’t talk much about it).

Up until now, the idea of being American and believing in God were synonymous.

I’m trying not to be all Jacobin all the time anymore, but a society where Sally Quinn has any influence is a society that is probably doomed modulo organized insurrection.

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120Comments

  1. 1.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    God, that woman is tiresome. When will they finally make her go away?

  2. 2.

    GregB

    October 5, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Speaking of religious lunatics. Scott Brown’s BFF just wrote several new TV spots for Elizabeth Warren.

    Abortion and gays weren’t in the Constitution!

    Nice work Nino…vaffanculo!

  3. 3.

    Pooh

    October 5, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    @GregB: but slaves were

  4. 4.

    Soonergrunt

    October 5, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    OT, and in Kay’s wheelhouse, but pretty important–6th Circuit US Appeals Court upholds lower court ruling that Ohio must restore last three days of early voting for all Ohioans.

    The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on Friday that Ohio must make early voting during the three days before the election available to all voters if it’s available to military members and voters who live overseas. The ruling upheld a lower court’s decision.
    …
    “The State’s asserted goal of accommodating the unique situation of members of the military, who may be called away at a moment’s notice in service to the nation, is certainly a worthy and commendable goal,” the court ruled. “However, while there is a compelling reason to provide more opportunities for military voters to cast their ballots, there is no corresponding satisfactory reason to prevent non-military voters from casting their ballots as well.”

  5. 5.

    Quincy

    October 5, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Pierce has a couple terrific lines in his takedown of her today.

  6. 6.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    She doesn’t begin to know anything about our history. The Pledge of Allegiance and the money only got the God references in the 1950’s because we were trying to show we were better than the Soviets, since they were officially atheist.

    I wish they’d fire her.

  7. 7.

    DH

    October 5, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    God is she a horrible human being. I console myself with the thought that I have heard from several good sources: The running story that continues to go the rounds of the water coolers of the Kaplan Prep Test Daily is the following. How long will it take after Ben Bradlee dies for Sally Quinn to be fired from the Post? Will be it be immediately, or will it take 5 minutes?

  8. 8.

    LittlePig

    October 5, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    Oh fer crying out loud. Sally Quinn should REMEMBER when the change was made to the Pledge of Alligiance, that was only ’54, and interesting that she picked ‘coins’ for In God We Trust, since it has only been on paper since the mid-50s.

    Billy Graham wasn’t a Founding Father, dumb lady.

    ETA: And I see Violet beat me to the punch

  9. 9.

    Soonergrunt

    October 5, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    And Sally Quinn needs to be at the head of the line for the tumbrel.

  10. 10.

    Ash Can

    October 5, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    Sally Quinn can go fuck herself with a Metrobus for perpetuating this steaming mountain of shit. Steve M makes a good point about her insulting all Mormons, but the fact is, she and everyone else who says this crap insult all Americans.

  11. 11.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    is a society that is probably doomed modulo organized insurrection.

    I would think that any sort of organized insurrection, a successful one anyway, would also doom a civilization. Which isn’t to say that what came out of the insurrection wouldn’t be better, it just wouldn’t be the same civilization.

  12. 12.

    Glidwrith

    October 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    With respect to the pledge of allegiance, is she claiming Porky Pig isn’t a citizen?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxlxoAcSusw

    How un-American!

    And our dollars didn’t have ‘In God We Trust’ until the 1930’s; truly godless money – horrible!

  13. 13.

    Carolinus

    October 5, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Romney Online Rapid Response Director tweets reaction to unemployment rate drop:

    “YAY!” Said nobody.

    https://twitter.com/alcivar/status/254271502248210432

    Bitter much?

  14. 14.

    Villago Delenda Est

    October 5, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    I’ve got news for the vile skank that is Sally Quinn. “The Creator” mentioned in the Declaration of Independence was the Flying Spaghetti Monster, not that jealous asshole deity of a bunch of infantile Semitic sheep herders.

    And the mention of aforementioned asshole deity in the Pledge of Allegiance was not in the original, which was written by…wait for it…a Socialist, an actual one, not the ni*CLANG that Quinn so hates.

  15. 15.

    Schlemizel

    October 5, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    Heinlein has a great quote about the wisdom of outwardly practicing the dominant religion of the country you live in. I can’t remember it exactly at the moment so I’ll give you this one from the great and powerful RAH!

    God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent – it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills.

  16. 16.

    japa21

    October 5, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    @LittlePig: And many of those fundies and born agains that cling to the “one nation under God” probably don’t realize that the whole reason it is there is because of those damn papist Knights of Columbus.

    Oh, and don’t totally freak out about the society ebing doomed yet. I don’t think Quinn has any influence outside of the debate raging between the three people in her own mind.

  17. 17.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    You’re going to Hell for linking to that woman.

  18. 18.

    Zifnab25

    October 5, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    An atheist could never get elected dog catcher, much less president. (Democratic Rep. Pete Stark of California is a nontheist but doesn’t talk much about it).

    Obvious exceptions to my rule DON’T COUNT.

    In other news, a lesbian could never become mayor of a Texas city. A latino will never sit on the Supreme Court. And a black man will never be President.

  19. 19.

    Ruckus

    October 5, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    @Ash Can:
    Thank you for writing my comment so I don’t have to.
    I would have used some other instrument for her self inflicted carnal knowledge but a Metrobus certainly will suffice.

  20. 20.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    @DH: I bet she knows that and will “retire for personal reasons.” She’s vain and self-centered, but I don’t think she’s dumb enough that she doesn’t know she’ll be shitcanned the instant he’s gone.

    On the other hand, she did write an entire column airing family dirty laundry around her son’s wedding, so who knows. Maybe she is that dumb.

  21. 21.

    Metrosexual Manichean Monster DougJ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    I thought of that so I linked to Steve M instead. He’s going to hell anyway.

  22. 22.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    I’m sure I don’t want to know how it’s possible for a Metrobus to fit in Sally Quinn’s vagina.

  23. 23.

    Ash Can

    October 5, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    @Carolinus: Oh, honestly. My 7th-grader and his classmates are more mature than that.

  24. 24.

    David in NY

    October 5, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    OT — The Supreme Court took a batch of cases today, several interesting. The most is Bowman v. Monsanto — basically questioning whether Monsanto can assert its patent against the use of fertile seed from its patented crops. The patent court, the Federal Circuit, created an exception to the usual patent rule, that the patent holder can’t assert that patent against uses after the first sale, to allow Monsanto to keep farmers from using the fertile seed of crops they raise. This, I think, is a BFD. (I think, but do not guarantee, that I’ve got the principles right here.)

    Also, for lovers of the jury trial, Court will consider whether to overrule Harris v. U.S., which said judge, not jury, gets to decide whether mandatory minimum sentences are applicable in a criminal case.

  25. 25.

    freemark

    October 5, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Didn’t know that was how George Will put it. I always told people, “I’m agnostic becasue I don’t give enough of a shit to be atheist.”

    The fact that George Will has similar feelings makes me wonder if I shouldn’t put some effort into being an atheist.

  26. 26.

    Ruckus

    October 5, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    @burnspbesq:
    Driven at high speed.

    Even if you didn’t want to know.

  27. 27.

    Schlemizel

    October 5, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    You do have to be careful around here. I always check to see where the link goes before clicking. For some reason FPers like to send us to bullshit sites like Andy Sullivan’s to read his latest puke up. Not getting a click from me, that just encourages them

  28. 28.

    kindness

    October 5, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    Adultery. I wonder what Sally’s God thinks of Sally & Ben Bradley’s adultery for all that time prior to him divorcing his first wife (because of Sally).

    I’m not one to throw stones, but I will point out that neither is Sally.

  29. 29.

    Roger Moore

    October 5, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    @Violet:

    On the other hand, she did write an entire column airing family dirty laundry around her son’s wedding, so who knows. Maybe she is that dumb.

    And while people tend to ignore it, it’s worth pointing out that intelligence is not necessarily constant across a lifespan. Maybe she used to be sharp as a tack, but if so, the evidence suggests she’s getting duller with age. When somebody slows down that much, it’s time to let them go.

  30. 30.

    Ruckus

    October 5, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    @Roger Moore:
    Isn’t that why they got a party and a gold watch, so they could at least know they were past their prime and could tell it was time to not come in any more?

  31. 31.

    Mark S.

    October 5, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Part of claiming your citizenship is claiming a belief in God

    Fuck you, Sally.

  32. 32.

    Schlemizel

    October 5, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    @Violet:

    Didn’t Ben tip the canoe earlier this year? I thought he had

  33. 33.

    WarMunchkin

    October 5, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: No reason to call her a skank… “Asshole” works fine.

  34. 34.

    TribalistMeathead

    October 5, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    George Will is an agnostic because it’s more convenient for him to straddle the ol’ “religious fundamentalists are just as bad as militant athiests” line. Then when someone says something about, oh, I don’t know, rural whites clinging to their Bibles, he can still get all high and mighty about it without being a hypocrite.

  35. 35.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    @Schlemizel: Maybe this weekend I’ll write a new ffox extension. Give it a list of sites you don’t want to give hits and any links to them get rewritten to hit the google cache.

  36. 36.

    Schlemizel

    October 5, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    @kindness:

    To Sally:
    And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Matt 7

    I love getting into it with the bible slingers, I’ve read it & they usually haven’t

  37. 37.

    slag

    October 5, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Every time I encounter the Sally Quinns of the world, I’m reminded that we’re really not that far off from human sacrifices and witch burnings after all. It’s quite depressing.

  38. 38.

    Linnaeus

    October 5, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Funny, I don’t see anything in the Constitution about citizenship requiring a belief in God and if I recall correctly, the Supreme Court hasn’t either.

  39. 39.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    @Roger Moore: And smart people also have blind spots. She may still be smart in some areas, but willfully blind about how she got her job, how her husband is the only reason she still has one, etc. Maybe they’d let her go after he died and she’d be utterly stunned since she thinks she’s doing a great job, that her columns are a real service to “those people” and that what people really want is for her to write more frequently.

  40. 40.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I’ve got news for the vile skank that is Sally Quinn. “The Creator” mentioned in the Declaration of Independence was the Flying Spaghetti Monster

    You know, I’ve always wondered why it was that Yankee Doodle ‘stuck a feather in his cap and called it macaroni‘. Thank you for that, it all makes so much more sense now. See kids, American History isn’t as random as it seems at first.

  41. 41.

    DH

    October 5, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    @Violet:

    Dumb and a world class Narcissist also. The Post probably took down the reader’s comments on her epic tale of how senile men like Ben and not social geniuses like her, Sally, forgot about her son’s wedding being on the same day as Bradlee’s other son’s wedding(which, I should add, none of that part of the family wanted her to go to anyway), but they as snarky and funny as anything I have ever read. My favorite was the one that replied to the column by saying: Thousands of Haitians( this was just after the terrible earthquake there) read it(the column) wept, and realized their problems really were not that bad after all.

  42. 42.

    Schlemizel

    October 5, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    @MikeJ:

    I’ll kiss you on the mouth!

  43. 43.

    trollhattan

    October 5, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    @Quincy:
    For sure.

    And, in the Beyond, Mr. Madison cracks another bottle of Madeira and drinks it down in two swallows. A belief in God has nothing to do with “claiming your citizenship.” And, not for nothing, but Willard Romney’s god happens to believe that Jesus came to America to smoke dope with the Iroquois.

    http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/sally-quinn-obama-romney-god-13403611#ixzz28SQHhg4G

  44. 44.

    Ben Grimm

    October 5, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    ” I call myself an agnostic because I’m not decisive enough to be an atheist.”

    That’s how I felt too, until election day 2004.

  45. 45.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    @David in NY:

    They also ordered the SG’s office to respond to the petition for rehearing filed by Liberty University. Obsessive-compulsive law geeks will recall that Liberty challenged the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act on a wide variety of grounds, some of which were not addressed by the Court in NFIB v. Sibelius. The Fourth Circuit held that the case was barred by the Anti-Injunction Act, a holding that clearly can no longer be correct.

    The Supremes sat on a whole bunch of other cases, including Liberty’s, while it was considering NFIB, and denied cert the day after it issued the opinion in NFIB. Liberty wants the Supremes to vacate the denial of cert, grant cert, vacate the Fourth Circuit’s opinion, and remand for a merits determination on its Exercise Clause and Equal Protection challenges.

    Fuck.

  46. 46.

    Publius39

    October 5, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    An atheist could never get elected dog catcher, much less president. (Democratic Rep. Pete Stark of California is a nontheist but doesn’t talk much about it).
    Up until now, the idea of being American and believing in God were synonymous.

    I guess these people wouldn’t like to hear about Ben Franklin, Thomas Paine, or Thomas Jefferson’s religious inclinations?

  47. 47.

    Jamie

    October 5, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    If going through the motions and pretending to be religious in order to win power and money is the standard, Quinn can have DC. After we burn it down again.

    I thought we were living in a place where we had religious freedom. And don’t give me the “no right from religion” line. You can babble about whatever sky daddy you like, sure. Have fun. And I can mock you. Have courage in your faith. I do in my lack thereof.

  48. 48.

    David in NY

    October 5, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    @burnspbesq: Well, that’s crummy.

    ETA: I heard that there were other anti-ACA theories being floated around — are these them, or is there even more yet to come?

  49. 49.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    October 5, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    another way for the overlords to persuade one half of the plebes to fight with the other half of the plebes

    Or similar but slightly different version of that: a way for someone engaged in a struggle for power over a population to gain the upper hand by simply making up an invisible authority who no one else can see or hear, and who agrees with him.

    It doesn’t even have to have worked every time someone tried it, everyone might have said “Pffff, yeah right”, or even one out of a hundred, or hundred thousand times, but all it took was a few and things were off and running.

    I actually can’t imagine how anyone could see religion as having begun as anything other than that, but that’s me. Of course one little piece of evidence is that the Talibangelicals are using it exactly that way to this day…

  50. 50.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    @DH: I remember those comments. They took them down? Chickenshits. They should let them stand.

    I figured Ben Bradlee was retired. Is that true? If so, why the hell is his wife still writing for them?

  51. 51.

    ranchandsyrup

    October 5, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    The details of my life are quite inconsequential… very well, where do I begin? My blogfather was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Rochester with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for trolling. My blogmother was a 90 year old socialite named Sarah. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the term totebagger. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we’d make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum… it’s breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.

  52. 52.

    PeakVT

    October 5, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    @Linnaeus: In fact, the Constitution says:

    The Senators and Representatives, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution, but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

    Part of the First Amendment may be relevant, too, I hear.

  53. 53.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    @burnspbesq: I do not understand what you are saying.

  54. 54.

    jayjaybear

    October 5, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    @Schlemizel: No, but he’s 91. Can’t be long now.

  55. 55.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 5, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Currently it may be true that an open atheist couldn’t be elected as President, but I think that’s changing. In the near future, not sure if there will be as many Christianists around. Seems like with the decline of the Repub party, there will be a corresponding decline in the domination of Christianists. I have a feeling that Ms. Quinn knows this to be true and is just bluffing.

    Look at marriage equality and the public’s changing opinion. Who would believe that this year a slight majority of Americans would be okay with same sex marriage?

  56. 56.

    Lordwhorfin

    October 5, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Ah, Sally and Michaelita Quinn, a pair of exquisitely empty crystal sculptures, filled with the light of their own narcissistic self-regard. Tiny dogs, permanent drivers, ankle-length sable coats in July. You have to understand the degree that these people DO NOT LIVE ON OUR PLANET. Sally has never had to defend her worldview for any sustained amount of time, is never challenged, questioned, or confronted. The less-flattering definition of ‘entitlement’ perfectly captures the Quinn sisters’ worldview. As in, ‘I am entitled to your husband.’

  57. 57.

    Anoniminous

    October 5, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Experiment:

    Have the US issue gold coins and gold backed paper money but without the words “In God We Trust.”

    DEATH MATCH between the Paulites and Fundies! Who will win?

  58. 58.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    @David in NY:

    AFAIK, Liberty is the only plaintiff still pursuing anything, but I could have missed something else.

  59. 59.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    @Violet:

    About the Liberty University case, or about Sally Quinn’s vagina?

  60. 60.

    scav

    October 5, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    Just so she and all the other O!-so-Pious originalists remember, the pledge came not with a hand over the heart but with an arms-out straight-arm salute.

  61. 61.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    @burnspbesq: The Liberty University case. I do not need to know anything about Sally Quinn’s vagina.

  62. 62.

    Brachiator

    October 5, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    @Metrosexual Manichean Monster DougJ:

    There’s one way in which I am very much like George Will. I call myself an agnostic because I’m not decisive enough to be an atheist.

    i always figured that being an agnostic was better. I don’t know and I don’t care about deities. And it always seemed to me that a deity that gave you free will gave you the right to ignore and disregard any jottings in supposedly divine texts, so a deity (even if one existed) would be irrelevant. Kinda like the Queen of England or Sally Quinn.

    A God’s Diamond Jubilee, with a caretaker deity waving to the crowd, would be pretty cool, though.

    This is a religious country. Part of claiming your citizenship is claiming a belief in God, even if you are not Christian..

    More gas from nervous white people who need presidential candidates in general, and Obama specifically, to assure them that they are not exotics who are going to thrown them into a Kenyan sozhulist cannibal pot.

    Pathetic.

  63. 63.

    DH

    October 5, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    @Violet: @Violet:

    She does have a labyrinth built at her home. Give her act, maybe the Post editors think she is a sister of Medusa, and they will turn to stone if they look at her. Hint Post Editors: all you need is a mirror.

  64. 64.

    Surreal American

    October 5, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    OT: I see Chucky K. completed a few VICTORY! laps recently by doing his best BJ troll impersonation:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-romney-by-two-touchdowns/2012/10/04/44ee5b92-0e65-11e2-bb5e-492c0d30bff6_story.html

  65. 65.

    Soonergrunt

    October 5, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    @burnspbesq: There’s a difference?

  66. 66.

    Culture of Truth

    October 5, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    Up until now

    Like, just this minute?

  67. 67.

    trollhattan

    October 5, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    @Surreal American:
    “Finally, finally, finally Iwe get to bomb Iran, like Gawd intended all along!”

  68. 68.

    TooManyJens

    October 5, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Up until now, the idea of being American and believing in God were synonymous.

    WHAT. Fuck you, lady.

  69. 69.

    schrodinger's cat

    October 5, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    I am so tired of this Villager fluffing of Mitt. He did not look like he was in charge, he looked like a bully. An old manic bully smiling his fake creepy smile.

  70. 70.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    October 5, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    @David in NY:

    If this isn’t the poster child for patents run amok (especially patents on living organisms), I don’t know what is.

    We’re going to be seriously fucked when we’re no longer legally allowed to use seeds from our crops or gardens.

  71. 71.

    DH

    October 5, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Sally has also claimed that she is the model for Sally for Meg Ryan in “When Harry met Sally.”

    I rest my case that she is a horrible person.

  72. 72.

    catclub

    October 5, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim: yeah, and then ask yourself how South Africa ends apartheid without Bishop Desmond Tutu, or the US gets a civil rights law without
    a Baptist minister convincing his fellow congregants to take up civil disobedience.

    Like most everything else. An extremely mixed bag.

  73. 73.

    gbear

    October 5, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    The Revolution Starts Now?

  74. 74.

    Jewish Steel

    October 5, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    @Soonergrunt: Yes. One is a case the COURT would prefer to PUNT and the other could be construed as PORT belonging to a….

  75. 75.

    catclub

    October 5, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: I think we are already there then.

    This is probably Monsanto claiming that: “even if the seed blew in from your neighbors field, we still own it.”

  76. 76.

    Cris (without an H)

    October 5, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    I call myself an agnostic because I’m not decisive enough to be an atheist.

    I call myself an ambignostic because I’m not consistent enough to call myself an agnostic.

  77. 77.

    Soonergrunt

    October 5, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    @Jewish Steel: Where would you like your internets delivered?

  78. 78.

    gbear

    October 5, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    So will last night’s racist troll show up and ask why it’s OK for MMMDougJ to use the word modulo?

  79. 79.

    catclub

    October 5, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    Could someone explain the ‘modulo organized insurrection’ bit?

    I had a hard time understanding all that modulo crap in public key cryptography.

    We are good as long as there is none? Or what?

  80. 80.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    @catclub:

    This is probably Monsanto claiming that: “even if the seed blew in from your neighbors field, we still own it.”

    Thought they already won that case. A Canadian case, right?

  81. 81.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    @catclub:

    This is probably Monsanto claiming that: “even if the seed blew in from your neighbors field, we still own it.”

    Monsanto v Onan?

  82. 82.

    Jewish Steel

    October 5, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    @Soonergrunt: Please imagine me saying the above in lace cuffs and punctuating my ellipses with a pinch of snuff.

  83. 83.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    I really was asking about this Liberty University case. Can someone please explain it.

  84. 84.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    You can kill things and still like them

    Rick Santorum, discussing Big Bird.

  85. 85.

    trollhattan

    October 5, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    @Jewish Steel: Cunning stunts versus stunning…?

  86. 86.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    @MikeJ: Is that for real? Sounds like, “Of Mice and Men.”

  87. 87.

    raven

    October 5, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    Baseball?

  88. 88.

    Steve

    October 5, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    @burnspbesq: OMG, somehow you missed the Origination Clause argument that is going to blow everything up.

    I’ll tell you this, as a practical and political matter, I simply can’t imagine any way the Supreme Court is going to let the ACA challengers go another full round. They already threw the kitchen sink at this law.

  89. 89.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Finally, finally, finally we get to bomb Iran, like Gawd intended all along

    __
    Sir! I have a plan!
    [standing up from his wheelchair]
    Mein Führer! I can walk!

  90. 90.

    MikeJ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    @Violet: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/10/05/rick-santorum-you-can-kill-things-and-still-like-them/?tid=wp_ipad

  91. 91.

    muddy

    October 5, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    What’s weird to me is that among my acquaintance, the atheists are better Christians than the Christians. It’s too bad that they don’t really act the way Jesus would want them to. Most of the stuff they carry on about is in the Old Testament, and I ask why then are they not Jewish if they only like that part. Also I say that Jesus would kick their table over.

    I don’t get invited to as many parties as I used to. So sad, too bad.

  92. 92.

    catclub

    October 5, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    @MikeJ: I larfed.

    I think it would God vs Onan.
    Same diff.

  93. 93.

    rlrr

    October 5, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    @MikeJ:

    Rick Santorum is Lennie Small from Of Mice and Men…

  94. 94.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    @Violet:

    OK. Let me try again.

    Liberty sued in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia, alleging that both the individual mandate and the employer mandate were unconstitutional on a whole bunch of grounds.

    The District Court dismissed the case under Rule 12(b)(6) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, on the ground that Liberty had failed to state a claim on which relief can be granted (legalese for “all your arguments suck, go away you poopyhead”).

    Liberty appealed.

    The Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit affirmed the District Court, but on a different ground. The Fourth Circuit ruled that the case had to be dismissed for lack of jurisdiction, because the Anti-Injunction Act (currently Section 7121 of the Internal Revenue Code) prohibited a pre-enforcement challenged to the penalty.

    Liberty asked the Supreme Court to hear the case.

    The Supremes sat on the case while they decided NFIB v. Sibelius, and then denied cert (refused to hear the case) the day after the issued the opinions in NFIB.

    Liberty now says, correctly in my view, that the Fourth Circuit’s dismissal on Anti-Injunction Grounds has to be vacated, because the Supreme Court said in NFIB that the Anti-Injunction Act doesn’t apply to the penalties under the ACA. It wants the case sent back to the Fourth Circuit, which would then have to decide whether the District Court was correct in its decision that Liberty had no case.

    This is almost certainly a huge waste of everybody’s time and resources. The standard of review on appeal of a decision dismissing a case under Rule 12(b)(6) is supposed to be “abuse of discretion,” which is a very deferential standard.

    But hey, whatever. Let the Fourth Circuit rubber-stamp the District Court opinion if that’s what it takes to make these idiots go away once and for all.

  95. 95.

    Violet

    October 5, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    @burnspbesq: Thank you. I didn’t know any of this.

  96. 96.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    @muddy:

    Also I say that Jesus would kick their table over.

    He came in and trashed the place, and it wasn’t his place.
    /moneychangers

  97. 97.

    Quicksand

    October 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    @gbear:

    So will last night’s racist troll show up and ask why it’s OK for MMMDougJ to use the word modulo?

    Are PO and MMMDJ not one and the same?

  98. 98.

    David in NY

    October 5, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    @Violet: @Violet:

    Liberty University challenged the ACA on different grounds than those decided in NFIB v. Sibelius (the case the Court heard), but it lost in the Fourth Circuit on a ground the Sup. Ct. invalidated. After its decision, the Supremes denied certiorari in the Liberty University case. Liberty is asking rehearing, extremely rarely granted, because under NFIB, its case shouldn’t have been dismissed by the Fourth Circuit. The Supremes are asking the government to respond. Sounds like Liberty may have a point, but not sure how far it gets it.

    Also, @Steve: points out that Randy Barnett, who cooked this whole stew up in the first place, has another bright idea.

  99. 99.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    October 5, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    @catclub: I’m not sure how you see that as a contradiction of what I wrote.

    People do good and bad things, and some of them are religious people.

    If you’re arguing however that an invisible supernatural being made Desmond Tutu do what he did, then I’m going to disagree with you. Also if you’re arguing, as you seem to be, that liberation and other good things require religion or they can’t take place, I’m going to disagree with that also.

  100. 100.

    Suffern ACE

    October 5, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    @Violet: It’s more like “even if the pollen blew in from god knows where…”

  101. 101.

    karen

    October 5, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    America is not a “religious” country. It’s a Christian country. They tolerate Jews but other religions? Not so much. Islam? When the word “Muslim” isn’t an epithet, get back to me.

  102. 102.

    Metrosexual Manichean Monster DougJ

    October 5, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    @catclub:

    I use it too much, sorry. It probably didn’t even make sense here.

    I’m a number theorist professionally, so I have a hard time not thinking that way.

  103. 103.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    @Soonergrunt:

    There’s a difference?

    Not. Going. There.

  104. 104.

    David in NY

    October 5, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    standard of review on appeal of a decision dismissing a case under Rule 12(b)(6) is supposed to be “abuse of discretion,” which is a very deferential standard

    I don’t do civil procedure, really, but I’m pretty sure Rule 12(b)(6) dismissals are reviewed “de novo” in the Second Circuit. Doubt that the Fourth is different. Which means a remand would require the Fourth to consider the legal validity of the claims, as to which I don’t know anything.

  105. 105.

    geg6

    October 5, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    WTF is this whorish bimbo talking about? Suddenly, according to famous adultress Sally Quinn, I can’t possibly claim US citizenship because I think the monstrous sky fairy with anger issues is just a fantasy dreamed up by authoritarians all over the world in order to exercise power over everyone else naive enough to believe such unmitigated bullshit?

    Fuck her sideways. She’s a know-nothing pretentious tramp who should be one of the first against the wall when the revolution comes.

  106. 106.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    @David in NY:

    Re Barnett’s Origination Clause argument.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/09/the-right-strikes-back-a-new-legal-challenge-for-obamacare/262443/

    The Pacific Legal Foundation referring to itself as a “public-interest law firm” must surely have Orwell spinning in his grave.

  107. 107.

    David in NY

    October 5, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    @Metrosexual Manichean Monster DougJ: Wondered where that “modulo” stuff came from. My kid’s a freshly minted combinatorialist out of MIT, post-docing at Minnesota, so I’ve heard that stuff from time to time over the years. But it seemed sufficiently obscure this time that I decided not to bother my beautiful mind over it. (God, you can reference both Barb Bush and John Nash with that one.)

  108. 108.

    burnspbesq

    October 5, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    @David in NY:

    You’re right. My bad.

    That said, the District Court opinion in Liberty University, on a quick reading, seems thorough and well-reasoned.

  109. 109.

    David in NY

    October 5, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    @burnspbesq: I’ve got a collection of Orwell’s essays on the bedside table — I’ll see if there’s any sign of agitation. Probably time to read “Politics and the English Language” again anyway.

  110. 110.

    David in NY

    October 5, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    @karen: I think the Supreme Court once said “We are a religious country.” In maybe Zorach v. Clausen? In those days, they might have included Muslims.

  111. 111.

    David in NY

    October 5, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: This may mean that the Court is going to end the exception, and say the patent won’t extend that far. Has the slight smell of a case they’re taking to reverse. But the majority loves them some corporations, so who knows.

    A lot of patent law (I think) has been sort of made up as the courts went along, and the Supremes are apt to look more closely at the actual statutes involved. But really, this is not something I know much about.

  112. 112.

    Ruckus

    October 5, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    @burnspbesq:
    But hey, whatever. Let the Fourth Circuit rubber-stamp the District Court opinion if that’s what it takes to make these idiots go away once and for all.

    You think they’ll go away? They are cult members, the only way they go away is when they are dead. Like zombie lawyers. BTW this is going to be a new show on faux. Conservative Zombie Lawyers, they don’t eat your brains, they eat your briefs.

  113. 113.

    Steve

    October 5, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    @burnspbesq: A funny sidenote is that one of the earlier Origination Clause cases featured a pretty strong dissent by Scalia who thundered that the enrolled bill rule makes the Origination Clause non-justiciable. So if this new case somehow gets back before the Supreme Court, Scalia will once again be forced to find a way to disregard his own logic…

  114. 114.

    LanceThruster

    October 5, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    Gott.Mitt.Uns.

  115. 115.

    PurpleGirl

    October 5, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: …which was written by…wait for it…a Socialist, an actual one,…

    Not only was Francis Bellamy a Socialist, he was also a Baptist minister.

    From Wikipedia:
    The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), who was a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist,[3] and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850–1898). The original “Pledge of Allegiance” was published in the September 8 issue of the popular children’s magazine The Youth’s Companion as part of the National Public-School Celebration of Columbus Day, a celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’s arrival in the Americas. The event was conceived and promoted by James B. Upham, a marketer for the magazine, as a campaign to instill the idea of American nationalism by selling flags to public schools and magazines to students.

  116. 116.

    barbequbob

    October 5, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    I have no sympathy for her

  117. 117.

    p

    October 6, 2012 at 3:40 am

    An atheist is anyone denying theism. It’s not, “Fuck religion zomg God is GAY” or whatever dumb shit. If you are not a theist, you are an atheist.

  118. 118.

    Another Halocene Human

    October 6, 2012 at 5:25 am

    @Ash Can: What did the Metrobus ever do to you, brother?

  119. 119.

    Another Halocene Human

    October 6, 2012 at 5:39 am

    @geg6: She’s learned that going on loudly about God pleases the hypocritical Christ-mongers who smile and praise her instead of calling attention to her behavior, which they would be otherwise judging and condemning.

    But she is a disgusting human being and a pimple on the WAPO, not so noticeable now that it has itself become a giant boil.

  120. 120.

    Another Halocene Human

    October 6, 2012 at 5:42 am

    @LanceThruster: But the problem is that God Knows What You Did Last Summer.

    Coldest winter since the Napoleonic invasion and you think that’s an accident?

    ///snark

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