Moderate Mitt Romney would never hurt a fly. He’s a Mormon, you know, and his life has been one long slog of service and sacrifice:
So, as the sun set on his rally here Friday night, the Republican nominee, buoyed by his successful turn on the debate stage, for the first time publicly related emotionally powerful anecdotes. Romney told of ministering to the needy in his Mormon church, including a 14-year-old who was dying of leukemia and summoned “Brother Romney” to his bedside. He also spoke of an old friend who ended up a quadriplegic after an accident and came to see Romney recently, the day before he died.
At a waterfront park in downtown St. Petersburg, a crowd of more than 5,500 stood rapt listening to him speak, many with tears welling in their eyes. “Ohhhhh,” they gasped. And with that, the Romney campaign’s all-out effort to reveal the nominee’s character and compassion received a boost: A politician with an aversion to telling personal stories was, at long last, telling them.
Our lonely days are gone.
Enhanced Voting techniques
He decides to do this now?
Villago Delenda Est
Yes, the “service and sacrifice” of shipping thousands of jobs overseas while simultaneously looting the pension funds of the workers who built the company in the first place.
Such nobility!
jeffreyw
A nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you (Woo, woo, woo)
PsiFighter37
I am so sick of this whole ‘rebooting Romney’ crap. You can’t turn a jerk into the nicest guy in the world after he’s been a jerk for nearly 2 years now, but the MSM will try its damndest because HORSERACE!
Cermet
WTF?! Looks like mormon asswipe thinks there are only “needy in his Mormon church.” Wow – his aid appears to be mostly giving comefort (not money) to the needy in the mormon church; and NO, his giving to the church is not the same since that gives him access to control and power in the church. His drive to ‘help’ seems to center on aiding romney as much or more than anyone else.
Lolis
The Romneybot really wants to win. Good. He will be devastated when he loses.
Kirbster
Aren’t the testimonials to your character supposed to come from other people?
Smiling Mortician
In Romneystan, dying quadriplegic visits you.
Villago Delenda Est
@Smiling Mortician:
Win!
Arm The Homeless
October product roll-out?
Who didn’t expect this to happen. His campaign told everyone they were going to shake Rmoney up. Do-Ovah!
Is 4 weeks enough to rehabilitate this guy? I suppose we will find out.
schrodinger's cat
Which MSM bot is giving Romney this tongue bath? I don’t want to give them another hit.
ericblair
@PsiFighter37:
Seems to be the strategy from the debate onwards. Who knows what they’re actually thinking, but objectively it looks like he’s going to do the compassionate conservative schtick and count on mindless tribalism to keep the teabaggers on board without noticing they’ve kind of been sold down the river. I doubt this will work for any amount of time, but hey.
jrg
Sure, you see a kid dying of Leukemia, I see a teenage ingrate who didn’t pay a cent in federal taxes last year.
Joel
Obama is still the 80% favorite on 538, but he’s falling. This was a needless defeat, even though he should still prevail. Very annoying indeed.
Davis X. Machina
People don’t like Romney. Haven’t liked him.
Hasn’t topped 50% in favorable/unfavorable …in a month not named “June” in a year.
People don’t make people they don’t like President. (Note, the Supreme Court will…)
The Dangerman
Mitt, can we talk about your tax returns?
Iriedc
@Smiling Mortician:
But of course! Mr. Romney has special powers of attraction.
jrg
…And if there is a better metaphor for the modern GOP than axing big bird, I don’t know what it is. Don’t reform our largest unfunded liabilities like Medicare, oh, fuck no, we’d hate to piss off the “small government” boomers. Instead, pull more funding from the education of our youth, even if it doesn’t make a dent in the federal budget.
What a fucking clown.
becca
@Kirbster: humility is not known to the vulgar.
Capt. Seaweed
@PsiFighter37:
I don’t like it anymore than you do, but wingnut ears are hearing this as conformation of what Ann Romney has been saying about her kinder, gentler Mitty. Grumbling about MSM reporting of another reboot doesn’t change the feeling that Romney, for whatever reasons, is moving up.
Obama made a mistake. Thru this whole campaign they’ve set back and let Mitt make all his own mistakes and I think they were caught flat-footed by a change of tactics and a suddenly aggressive Romney. I believe Team Blue is back on their heels a bit and they need to get back on their game, pretty quick.
Chyron HR
They’ve been doing this for months, have you seen the “My daughter ran away and Mitt didn’t tell me to fuck off, what a humanitarian” ad?
Keith
That’s what this story was missing: a good story of the laying on of hands. I guess washing the kid’s feet would have been a bit much.
Violet
@Enhanced Voting techniques:
Better now that never. He’s building on momentum and it’s a smart pivot.
@Capt. Seaweed:
Hopefully the jobs numbers will give them a boost out of the pit of despair and they’ll be back to their usual selves.
I kind of hope they’ve got an October surprise in their pockets. Mitt’s tax returns somewhere, maybe?
AA+ Bonds
. . . . . . . . do you work for Mitt Romney or something, how was this supposed to be a criticism of him
PsiFighter37
@ericblair: Come to think of it, this has probably been his prep for the townhall debate. Obama is going to need to balance being compassionate with sticking the knife in Romney’s back as often, and as subtly, as possible during the next debate.
That first debate really was an unforced error. Not an unmitigated disaster, but they need to forcefully call Romney a liar given all the ammo he has given us.
AA+ Bonds
Also great concern trolling by Capt. Seaweed, good to know BJ is still full of marks
Capt. Seaweed
@Violet:
See that? We were behaving like front runners 5 days ago and now we’re hoping the Jobs Fairy flutters in and with a tap of her/his magic wand can keep Team Obama from becoming Team Toast. Gonna take more than good numbers and Tinkerbell.
Romney’s big Wednesday was a classic victory of style over substance. Obama has never struck me as being an aggressive campaigner but he needs to grow some claws and get after those people. He’s a good waverider when he’s in the lead. Let’s see how he handles some adversity.
Capt. Seaweed
@AA+ Bonds:
I’m sorry. How is an honest opinion concern trolling?
Narcissus
How many versions of Mitt Romney have we seen so far
Linda Featheringill
@Kirbster:
Exactly.
Narcissus
@Capt. Seaweed:
This does sound like classic troll.
arguingwithsignposts
I am much more impressed by people whose good works are not visibly connected to their faith, i.e., taking care of the sick, feeding the poor, etc. is not an opportunity to “close the deal” on whatever religion they’re selling.
There are far too many who do good works because it’s earning them tokens in heaven or punching tickets to the promised land.
Mandalay
That quadraplegic is clearly part of the 47% of moochers….
http://www.thedogooder.com/featured-project/dogooder-spotlight-cobbie’s-sauce-gives-back-through-a-family-recipe/
I hope Mitt told him to take personal responsibility instead of playing the victim.
arguingwithsignposts
@Capt. Seaweed:
Because the president who killed OBL, saved GM, passed ACA and helped kill DADT has NEVER handled adversity before.
Capt. Seaweed
@Narcissus:
No trolling. I would argue there has been a change in the campaign. I would also argue that Team Obama has always shown an ability to change with it. It’s time for them to do that now.
SixStringFanatic
Wait, wait, how exactly does a quadriplegic man one day away from death arrange to go see Mitt Romney? And who the fuck would choose to go see Mitt Romney if they only had a day or two to live? I call bullshit.
My much more plausible theory:
Here’s this guy, an “old friend” of Mitt’s (more likely, someone the Mittbot met once 40 years ago) who’s involved in an accident that leaves him paralyzed but eventually he manages to come to terms with it, accept his limitations and get on with his life. Then one day, many years later, he meets Mitt Romney, loses his will to live and dies the next day.
Enhanced Voting techniques
@Violet:
How about last June before Mitt = Jerk was baked in?
I suppose it makes The Base feel happier about donating to him. Always the base.
NCSteve
Yeah, and George H.W. Bush luvved him some pork rinds and his son was an outdoorsy cowboy who owned a real ranch.
amk
So basically mittbot conducted the last rites ?
Mandalay
@arguingwithsignposts:
But the adversity Obama faces now is qualitatively different. It is not just the media calling him a wimp for his performance in the debate, but his supporters are as well.
That is a different kind of adversity.
Higgs Boson's Mate
The smarmy fuck wants a pat on the back for doing things, making time for a fourteen year old with leukemia or talking with a dying quadriplegic, that any normal person would do without a second thought. There are people doing these things and much, much, more every day. None of them are asking the world to kiss their asses for being decent human beings.
Capt. Seaweed
@arguingwithsignposts:
And I agree with you. I believe Obama has accomplished a hell of a lot in his first term and should be elected by virtue of those accomplishments. I think he’s done well, especially with all the roadblocks thrown up by the RWNJs. It has been a challenge and he has a lot to show for it.
This is a different challenge. I like the no drama Obama, it’s served him well always, but I still think he needs to get more aggressive with Romney. I think if you push Mitt he’ll make more mistakes and that can’t hurt. I think Obama will win in the end, but it feels a lot closer now than it did a few days ago.
These are just my opinions. If you think it’s trolling that’s your opinion.
arguingwithsignposts
@Mandalay: Because the relatively unknown black senator with a muslim-sounding name who defeated Hillary Clinton and John McCain as a non-incumbent NEVER faced any campaign adversity.
Davis X. Machina
@Mandalay:
He’s been called, by his supporters, a crook, a liar, and a mass murderer. I don’t think ‘wimp’ is that big a problem.
arguingwithsignposts
@Capt. Seaweed: I never said it was concern-trolling, but there’s a reason a campaign is a marathon and not a sprint. People need to stop setting their hair on fire because of one debate.
mk3872
And now the MSM will lap up this “Mitt’s reboot” crap like stray cats to milk.
Using dying and quadriplegic people in your stump speeches as props for your presidential bid is more than just a tad disgusting, particularly for a cold-hearted CEO and venture capitalist.
ding dong
Wonder if the quadraplegic told mitt he was one of the 47 percent and mitt told him that he needs to face the death panels pronto. Also did mitt minister to all the people that he fired when he was harvesting his companies.
Violet
@Capt. Seaweed:
WTF? How did a lame joke about “pit of despair” turn into that?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
Meanwhile, up here in Ohio, the Obama campaign has at least two ads using debate footage to hammer Rmoney on his lying. For a debate he ‘lost’, the President sure wants to keep hammering Rmoney on it.
Oh, and the only pro-Rmoney ad I caught yesterday was from a PAC hammering the ‘8.1%’ unemployment rate. Maybe I’m in the wrong corner of the state, but it sure doesn’t look like they’re that invested in trying to win here.
Mandalay
@arguingwithsignposts:
But that was adversity from his opponents, not his supporters.
You got busted for a bogus troll alert, and now you are just digging your hole deeper and deeper…
Capt. Seaweed
@arguingwithsignposts:
I do not see my hair being on fire, I still think Obama will win, but I’m not going to lie to you and tell you I’m doing the happy dance with what has happened this week. There’s been a change in the narrative, like it or not. My point is, and I’m sure Obama knows this all too well, that the rather laid-back/no drama/on cruise control campaign that was a feature of the first part of the marathon now has to adjust accordingly.
IMHO.
Violet
@Enhanced Voting techniques:
The people who seem most fired up about Mitt’s debate performance are his base. Polls seem to show it–any increase in poll numbers seems to come from the base, not from independents–and anecdotal evidence supports it–wingnuts on Facebook being fired up now whereas pre-debate they weren’t sure they were even going to vote for him, same with wingnut co-workers, etc.
So, yeah, pretending he’s human is part of base consolidation. “Prove” to them that he is worth their time and effort because he’s a Real Boy.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
If Romney manages to win on lies, then this country deserves him, and can burn for all I care.
And with ACA repealed, SS and Medicare destroyed, massive deficit spending and war on Iran, that’s exactly the path it will have chosen.
(This attitude is Bitter, but somewhat liberating).
Ruckus
@SixStringFanatic:
Now that’s a real plausible theory. In fact if mittshit wins I may lose the will to live.
scarshapedstar
So basically, if you’re sick and Mitt Romney shows up, prepare to die.
arguingwithsignposts
@Mandalay: Whatever, dude(tte). You might want to read back through the thread and quite fucking moving goal posts. I’m dug in just fine.
gelfling545
Well that’s all very good but I imagine anyone here could tell similar stories if they chose to boast about their acts of compassion. If Mr. Romney was (is?) a member of the clergy in his church isn’t it a part of his job to visit these people? Well done and all but to brag about it? Really?
amk
@SixStringFanatic:
LOL. That’s not a plausible theory. That’s what happened. Wanna bet 10,000
bucksdollars ?Davis X. Machina
@scarshapedstar: It’s him, or that psychic cat, Oscar
Linda Featheringill
Line from Velvet Underground, Heroin: “I feel just like Jesus’ son.”
Do you think maybe Ol’ Mittsy has been nipping at the mood elevators?
Ruckus
@SixStringFanatic:
Also too, another in the running for comment of the year.
J R in WV
I’m with the comment about using people in tragic situations to boost your “humanity quotient” is disgusting and depraved.
Romney is disgusting and depraved, he’s shown it all through his life, and this is just another example of his depravity. Despicable is another adjective that sticks to him like a cocklebur.
How ’bout those ‘eers, too! Beat Texas in Texas before the biggest crowd to ever we
Mandalay
@Violet:
The media are more fired up than anyone else. The debate is a pretext that allows them to say it’s an even race again.
It is more than that. It is Romney trying to show that he truly cares about the 47%, and that his earlier remarks were misunderstood.
soonergrunt (nexus 7)
Why didn’t Philip Rucker just give the mittster a handjob? It would have been less embarrassing than that article.
Violet
@Mandalay: Well, of course the media is fired up. They want the horse race.
Yes, good point on the 47% stuff. He’s completely switched on that to saying it was a mistake or he didn’t mean it or something. Don’t think that’s really going to help him, but who knows.
One thing we’ve learned about Mitt Romney is that he has an amazing ability to say stupid stuff. Like insulting the British just prior to the Olympics, etc. I have every confidence he’ll so something like that again soon.
Violet
@soonergrunt (nexus 7): Hey, there! How ya feeling this morning?
MoZeu
Possibly, just possibly, mind you. POSSIBLY Boston decided to study and learn from Chicago. Possibly –I just throw this out there as a possibility and not to freak anyone out or troll — it is possible that Romney has been rope-a-doping our guy to an extent. I hate to even think it. But. You can say a lot of things about Mitt Romney, but that he’s stupid or undisciplined is not among them.
Tomolitics
I hope Rucker cleaned himself up after such a wet sloppy blowjob to Willard.
Mandalay
@arguingwithsignposts:
I did read the thread again, and withdraw my comment. My apologies.
Kyle
At which point the Romneytron3000 informed him that he was not fulfilling his job requirements and was fired.
Mormons can be generous – to other Mormons.
Citizen_X
@scarshapedstar: “My name is Willard ‘Mitt’ Romney. I killed your company. Prepare to die.”
Donut
@Smiling Mortician:
Fucking amazing, ain’t it? He’s almost like Jesus, healing the crippled and leperous and shit, except for the Mormon-y stuff about how Jesus didn’t/doesn’t have the last word on Christianity, but never mind that because advertising dollars.
Rhoda
@MoZeu: He has lost Ohio. He was losing, he is losing, he will lose. The debate helped him solidify his base and stop being an open wound to the party and screwing the down ticket races.
He also has to get through two more debates after throwing out his platform.
Yutsano
@Citizen_X: “STOP SAYING THAT!!”
RSA
I love metaphors. Let’s hope it’s accurate.
Mandalay
@Davis X. Machina:
I disagree completely. He is being called a wimp (or words to that effect) by his own supporters during the campaign.
Allegations that he is “a crook, a liar, and a mass murderer” are not featuring prominently during the campaign. Even if they were, I doubt that the American public would view a mass murderer as being worse than a wimp. In politics there is NOTHING worse than being a wimp.
The Romney campaign should be running ads right now with clips of Obama’s worst moments in the first debate, and then ask “Is he really capable of leading the greatest country the world has ever known?”, or some similar pablum.
If that “wimp” tag sticks it may prove deadly.
MoZeu
@Rhoda: I think he will lose too. But that doesn’t rule out the theory that Boston carefully studied Obama’s proven strategy of closing very strong and moreover allowing a period in which he appears to be getting beaten to a pulp before that strong closing. It could very well be that – knowing that Romney’s biggest image problem is his “humanization” issue – the campaign shrewdly decided to create false moments (the convention, Anne’s public appearances) when Romney would purport to show his human side and set them up to fail. Then bring out the actual human anecdotes that would make an impression late in the campaign just as it was on an upswing. I’m just saying that this overall strategy of trajectory/timing/whateverhaveyou is what Obama has deployed successfully over and over again, having the discipline and confidence to withstand going for the quick and easy flash that dies out too soon. Possibly, Romney’s people are smart enough to have learned something from watching how Chicago has operated.
I didn’t make any predictions about Ohio. I suggested a possible strategy. That’s all!
amk
@Mandalay:
yeah, let him do that and see what happens.
There is a limit to concern trolling, you know.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mandalay:
This.
The Horse Race narrative has been saved! Ad dollars will flow again! Our phony-baloney jobs are no longer in peril! Huzzah!
Mandalay
@amk:
And what would happen, internet tough guy?
MoZeu
@amk: Some people enjoy speculating about political strategy for its own sake. This looks like a perfectly appropriate thread in which to engage in that type of banter, since it is not about Obama and not about policy. So, maybe no need to start throwing “concern troll” around, you know what I mean?
Rhoda
@MoZeu: Boston is doing now what they should have done this summer through the convention.
They have the base, they got here by lying. For the next month lies and medicare will dominate the debate. The jobs numbers took Romney’s best line about 8% unemployment.
ITA they seem competent now. That is a huge change, but it is a matter of too little to late.
amk
@Mandalay: wow, grouchy are we ?
What exactly is gonna happen ? It’s going to be laughed out of this world.
Now, go take a laxative.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@SixStringFanatic:
Someone looking to hook up with a good Organ Harvester, to provide for his family, of course.
jonas
If Mitt could personally meet with every single suffering, unemployed, disabled American who his policies would single out for particularly cruel deprivation, it would apparently make him a goddamn communist.
Conservatives are often quite compassionate to people whose situation they see and understand personally. If only they could show an ounce of concern for poor and unfortunate people they haven’t met personally, Republicans would go halfway to digging themselves out of the deepest circles of hell to which they so richly deserve to be condemned.
Rhoda
@Mandalay:More important, what moments? They can string together his uhs and pauses but that doesn’t work b/c POTUS isn’t an idiot and America knows it. Other than that, POTUS didn’t lie and he made no gaffes. There isn’t much to use.
Southern Beale
Only 5,500 showed up in Florida? That seems like a small crowd to me.
Mandalay
@amk:
And you are showing that there are no limits to cognitive dissonance.
Why do you think Romney is continually kissing the ass of the “strong” Bill Clinton, and constantly linking Obama to Jimmy Carter? It is because (rightly or wrongly) Carter was seen as a wimp and a loser.
Getting branded as wimp is DEADLY in politics. And your approach of putting your head in the sand does not make that problem go away.
MoZeu
@Rhoda: I also predict that Romney is going to seem much more human for the next month. I know nobody wants to hear it, but in some respects he came across as more human in the debate. I know everyone wants to hear that he was a horribly over-aggressive dick, but IMHO he was only modestly over-aggressive and probably did not come across as dickish at all to the voters he is out to swing at this point. He came across as confident, knowledgable and most of all passionate about his plans. You and I and everyone on this blog know that he has no real plans and those that he does have are lousy and he lied through his teeth about them all night. Not everyone gets that, however. At this point I think maybe I am concern trolling. Let’s put it this way: I think we on the left have underestimated Romney. I believe we will win, but that it will be a narrower win than we’d like and the down ballot races are not likely to go as much in our favor as we might have hoped. The Romney people DO know how to reach their base and are shrewd enough to fire up the base while simultaneously swaying “undecideds.” They are proving that right now. This is going to be a tough slog down to the last. No cakewalk.
Chyron HR
@Mandalay:
Like what? Failing to throw punches for a hour may be bad optics, but “Look at this footage of Obama not doing anything” doesn’t work as a campaign ad.
amk
@MoZeu:
Really ? He/she was losing it over Obama losing it. There ain’t no ‘stratergy’ discussion happening. Feverish minds are imagining a Victory! for mittbot. I ain’t buying that.
YAFB
Branding somebody a wimp then getting your ass soundly kicked into the middle of November by them is pretty deadly too.
MoZeu
@Rhoda: This is exactly right. There are no moments from the debate that Romney can use against Obama. Obama didn’t help himself in the debate, but he didn’t do anything stupid to hurt himself either.
amk
@Mandalay: Yeah right. OTOH, hair on fire freaking out based on a ‘debate’ is Victory!.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@MoZeu:
IMO it’d be more accurate to say that we’ve overestimated the sincerity of the MSM, and the ability of the squishy middle to detect bullshit.
Violet
@MoZeu:
The instant reaction thing CNN had doesn’t bear this out. Men liked him, women did not like him when he was being all alpha male. Women know that guy–he’s the one who insults and belittles them and then steals her ideas and claims they’re his own.
Romney is way, way behind with minorities. He’s ahead with white men. He needs women and they didn’t like him.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: I don’t know, I wouldn’t have thought Willard was capable of the performance he put on at that debate. Fantastically dishonest from start to finish, but he seems to have internalized the Constanza Principle “It’s not a lie, if you believe it!”
Sounds like Mary Matalin threw quite a tantrum at Krugman. Says a lot about our media that a professional partisan hack, even if you don’t take her complete moral bankruptcy into account, is given equal weight as a pretty heavily credentialed academic, who by the way has been right even about the stuff outside his field.
Capt. Seaweed
@MoZeu: @Rhoda:
Hmmm well the Republicans have been pretty up-front about manufacturing gaffes and outrage, so the idea that with a bit of imagination in splicing together an ad with the proper footage of Obama doing an eyeroll or scowl or sigh combined with a creepy doomsday narrator, no matter the context, and you’d have an ad to run out to the rubes. It wouldn’t move our needles but we’re not the target audience.
It’s very possible and easy to do if you have no scruples.
YAFB
I’m curious to see some evidence of this that doesn’t come from a Repub-leaning polling company with questionable cross-tabs.
FlipYrWhig
@Mandalay: Do you remember 2008? Every last thing Obama did or didn’t do was met with keening and wailing by his own putative supporters. “Bitter/cling,” what to do about suspending the campaign, any number of things. There would be a barrage of criticism about how Obama was totally blowing it and would lose for sure. This isn’t a new phenomenon. I’m sure he didn’t cover himself in glory, and I don’t think there was any deliberate strategy to rope-a-dope Romney into saying things they could counterpunch in ads. But you’re overstating the case.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
He did the same thing against Shannon O’Brien back in 2002 (Gov debate). He was cheeky enough to push the issue of her not releasing her husband’s tax returns, even as he refused to release any of his. But local media here lurves themselves those ‘moderate Republicans’, and 2002 was a GOP momentum year, so he got a pass.
I did expect Mitt to lie his ass off with total confidence, because that’s his skillset. What I did not expect was Obama’s sleepy, mellow performance, a squishy moderator, and an MSM that fell all over itself declaring Mitt ‘The Winner’ on style instead of properly fact-checking him in real time (which I see as their only useful function, frankly).
I’ll second your comments on Krugman, BTW. The way he, an actual credentialed expert who does his best to be reality-based, gets treated onscreen often pisses me off.
FlipYrWhig
@MoZeu: I think you’re mixing up “confident” and “human.” Projecting neither quality is probably deadly for a political candidate. But I don’t think a good show of one gives you points for the other.
Rhoda
@Capt. Seaweed: They have done this many times already, it has all blown up in their faces.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
Jack Welch was given a seat at every major media outlet to spew his paranoid fantasies about the September jobs report.
There was pushback from the hosts, but still. If he weren’t super rich, he’d have gotten as much attention as the guy on the corner wearing “The End Is Near” sandwich board.
Cacti
@Violet:
Unless you’re Nate Silver, and believe the Gravis Marketing poll that Mitt is taking 57% of the African American vote and 33% of the Hispanic vote in Colorado.
Capt. Seaweed
@FlipYrWhig:
I think Mandalay has a point. Being labeled a wimp helped bring down Bush1 and this is a guy who spent a good part of his term being all manly-an-shit beating up on Saddam. Fat lotta good that did him when so-called The Wimp Factor was created just for him.
Newsweek had an entire cover about Romney being a wimp. That couldn’t have helped.
What I saw Wednesday night from Romney was him being in your face aggressive, damn the torpedoes and damn the truth, being Big Alpha, completely non-wimp. I think that’s what a uninspired Right wanted to see. Was not so much Obama being a wimp, just passive and unsure. I’m thinking that’s what was picked up on.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@Cacti:
I’ve been wondering how many of those AA’s (5.9% of the sample, from memory) were Colorado Mormons.
You can ‘rig a poll’ without having to lie, if you’re good.
jwb
@Southern Beale: I think 5500 is a lot better than what he’s been drawing.
Yutsano
@Capt. Seaweed: Bush the Edler never finished off Saddam you see. He should have crushed him mightily, but instead pulled back after the Iraqi army left Kuwait. That is not how a proper Republican warlord acts. Not to mention it was much more than the wimp label that sank Bush I. He was also pictured as out of touch and breaking his promise on no new taxes.
Capt. Seaweed
@Yutsano:
Sure yeah I agree absolutely. Bush1 also ran into a totally charming and seductive Big Dog who was more than happen to pound on him. No loss is ever just.one.thing.
Yutsano
@Capt. Seaweed: Willard has a shit ton more negatives to overcome than Obama does at this point. One bad debate performance (yeah even the O man admitted himself he wasn’t happy with it, so as far as I’m concerned that settles the matter) is not going to turn this election. It will just give Villagers a tingle for a week or two.
sdhays
@MoZeu: I know I’m supposed to be afraid of the new momentum in the Romney campaign, but I just can’t. It’s still the Romney campaign, and, I’m sorry, I think any suggestion that they’ve been playing 11th dimensional chess, purposefully putting on a crappy convention, telling Ann Romney to almost break down in public over Republican armchair quarterbacking, insulting 47% of Americans, including members of the military and seniors, etc is just evidence of masochistic hand wringing (excuse the mild flaming).
Mitt Romney has been proving he’s an idiot for a very long time now. He barely won the primaries; he was the least weak of an astonishingly weak field, and money was basically his one and only strength. His foreign policy tour was a joke. He wasn’t trying to fake us/Team Obama out; he really does suck that much.
Mitt Romney’s debate performance on Wednesday night was awful. He blatantly lied throughout the night, and he was a condescending asshole (which is appealing to the Republican base, but not most other people). His zingers were flat. The President’s failure was to exploit the disaster that was Mitt Romney’s debate performance and allow Romney to be crowned the victor; he had an opportunity to turn the lights out for the Romney campaign, and he failed. As a supporter of the President and someone who is convinced that we need a Democratic House along with the Senate, it’s frustrating, especially playing the debate back in my head thinking, “When he said X, why didn’t you say Y, Mr. President?” game.
However, the man who, in his “winning debate performance”, chose to explicitly say he wanted to defund Big Bird and repeatedly referred to people on Medicaid as “the poor” or “poor people” is not going to pull off the idea that he’s actually some great humanitarian in four weeks. He’s not going to all of sudden become “super Mitt”, the guy everybody likes and trusts.
We shouldn’t be complacent and, yes, we shouldn’t take anything for granted. And, YES, the President needs to be prepared to fact check Mitt Romney in the next two debates, but you can take it to the bank, Mitt Romney is not going to be the next President of the United States. Period.
Capt. Seaweed
@Yutsano:
I hope so. In my own circle of jerks my RW friends are feeling all tingly and frisky and much more optimistic after Wednesday and are back to being the idiots I know and occasionally despise. I’m also not hearing any more from Team Blue about taking back the House. I always thought that was a bridge too far, personally, but I was hopeful.
amk
To all the concern trolls/hair-on-fire fire flies/genuinely concerned.
one debate ‘fail’ vs record 181 mil haul in sep & 10 mil donors in 2012 & 1.8 mil donors in sep.&1000’s in campaign events & a proven ground game.
’nuff said.
Mandalay
@Capt. Seaweed:
Or splice all Obama’s pauses and “uhmms” and “errrs”, and then ask with a doomsday tone “Is he really up for a 3 am phone call”? And then show a clip or two with Romney firmly asserting that he will restore something or other to the presidency.
Never mind that Obama got OBL, and that Romney is a flip flopper. It would still force the Obama campaign to respond to the charge that he is indecisive four weeks before the election.
Exactly.
But doubtless some bright spark here will still respond that it would be unfair and false, and would not change anyone’s mind.
Yutsano
@Capt. Seaweed: Meh. Team Blue is just doing their typical circular firing squad antics. We may yet take back the House and we are right now keeping the Senate in blue hands, so we just need a final strong push into the final days. Then we’ll see where we end up at the end of it. If the AOS actually is still Speaker at the end of the night, odds are his caucus will be severely weakened and he’ll be shivved by morning of November 7th.
@Mandalay: I now smell eau de copulatee de rodent upon thee…
Capt. Seaweed
@amk:
Feel better now? I know I do.
Shawn in ShowMe
@Cacti:
Will other former “charismatic CEOs” become jealous of the attention ‘ol Jack is receiving? Should we expect the return of Michael Eisner and Sandy Weill to the public square? We could party like its 1989.
Zach
The last time the Romney campaign tried to pitch super-hero Mitt it was pushed out to the press on background from campaign staff who demanded that reporters also note that Mitt wasn’t the sort of person to brag about this sort of thing. Guess that Mitt got desperate.
amk
@Capt. Seaweed: Facts always make me feel better than idle speculations. :)
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Shawn in ShowMe: considering that Sandy Weill is now calling for breaking up Citigroup, if not quite the reinstatement of Glass-Stegal, I’d be okay with him getting a bit more attention. One of the biggest surprises of the debate the other night was Willard talking about ‘too big to fail.’ If you follow that logic, and you don’t have to go to far, he’s calling for the big banks to be broken up. I shouldn’t be surprised that this hasn’t gotten more attention, but I am.
TexasMango
Barack Obama, the wimp that got Osama.
Capt. Seaweed
@Yutsano:
I have in no way given up all hope of taking back the house, I’m not going to run out and hurl myself off the Sellwood Bridge in despair, but to get the House I think the Ds need to be excited and motivated and the Rs need to be suicidal enough to stay home. All the Ds I know are ready to go and we were really hoping Obama would put a (rhetorical) pillow over Mitts face Wednesday night and put their hapless campaign out of it’s misery. But it didn’t happen that way and our high, unreasonable expectations were not met.
OK then. Next page. Move on.
Shawn in ShowMe
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
On one condition. Since he was one of the prime movers in getting Glass-Steagall repealed in the first place, could we stick his head on a pike at the end of the interview?
Tonal Crow
A story from Romney? Are you kidding? P=0.999 it’s bullshit.
—
Romney/Ryan: Bullshit lyin’.
Yutsano
@Capt. Seaweed: The next page was a great speech coupled with a massive fall in the unemployment rate that totally knocked Willard off his big stride. Of course Teh Narrative shifted immediately to say that no President has ever been elected with an unemployment rate of 7.8% (HORSERACE!!) so now all of a sudden that’s the benchmark. Willard tried to run with that but got zero traction and now he’s putting out his gentle side. Which is a total flip-flop from the man who would fire Big Bird. He’s flailing.
Capt. Seaweed
@amk:
Sure. I love facts. I also like the back-and-forth of friendly speculation and argument that makes this particular political blog different than others. I’m new here, and there seem to be a lotta people who’s default settings are set on FIGHT, and stating an opinion that goes against the board CW sends out a CONCERN TROLL ALERT for no apparent reason, but that’s OK. It’s all part of the drill.
I write a lot on NHL message boards. Thin skins need not apply =)
TexasMango
@Yutsano: Willard jazzed up some wingnut white males who feel emasculated by their loss of privileged status. They liked his phoney “alpha male” performance. Nobody else did.
All of this hand wringing is so 2008.
Or something like that.Suffern Ace
@Shawn in ShowMe: Yeah. Where was he during Dodd frank? Or 2008? I find it difficult to believe that he just developed an opinion now. When it doesn’t matter.
Yutsano
@Capt. Seaweed: BTW I’m not saying caution isn’t warranted because any electorate dumb enough to elect Dubya twice can do anything on November 6th. But now is also not the time to go all Chicken Little just because we had one setback. We are already bouncing back from the bad news, but it will take a bit of time to reflect in the polls.
Capt. Seaweed
@Yutsano:
And great grafix from the rally in Madison too also. That’s fighting back. In no part of my posts do I suggest Obama’s gonna turtle. He responds, he rebounds. I hope there’ll be more good news along in the next month.
TexasMango
@Capt. Seaweed: R-Money can talk about his debate performance and Obama can talk about the impressive dip in the unemployment rate. Things are getting better. That’s the message that was winning and that’s the message that will continue to win.
shortstop
The tetraplegic had to come to see HIM?
Capt. Seaweed
@TexasMango:
Sounds reasonable to you. Sounds reasonable to me. Doesn’t sound reasonable to my RW friends, who are unreasonable people. They need red meat to function. Facts and lower unemployment numbers mean nothing to them when Fox tells them that it’s all a big fat lie and they shouldn’t trust poll numbers anyway except ZOMG look at these new poll numbers!
They wallow in the dissonance. Can you explain it?
Laura
This would be nice if Romney had any stories about helping people who aren’t already his friends or other Mormons.
oh right, those stories don’t exist.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@shortstop: the thing I can never wrap my head around is these people who are so moved by these stories don’t make the leap between these stories of medical hardship and health insurance reform, medicaid, etc. My brain gets the whole “I worked for my health insurance” thing, my viscera and soul want to bash their lizard brains in with a brick.
Ezra Klein had a good segment with Jonathan Gruber the other night, Willard’s back-to-the-states block grants would destroy Romneycare in MA, which is massively subsidized by federal spending, especially MedicAid.
arguingwithsignposts
@Capt. Seaweed:
I shudder to think the flames that are being directed toward Bettman atm.
Keith G
All the snark in the world will not change the campaign’s status of “”game on”. Like a slasher movie villain who was knocked out but not killed, Romney has been given a chance to get back on his feet and make the most of this change in fortune.
The narrative will be “the cagy and reborn political fighter overcoming obsticles.” The tales above are affective so they will get more play than the “but his facts don’t add up” reports. I am prepping for a lot of tension in the upcoming weeks.
MoZeu
@YAFB: The evidence is (1) Romney’s debate performance which speaks for itself and and (2) the fact that the polls have moved quite noticeably, and this not just GOP-leaning pollsters. Even Nate Silver anticipates a decent-sized bounce. And Romney has gotten no pushback from his base for flat-out denying and decrying long-popular Republican policy positions, B/c he spoke the right code, he threw out the right kind of buzzwords to let them know he is still one of them while ostensibly denying entirely that he wants to enact policies that only benefit the 1% and gut the safety net for everyone else. It was a very Reaganesque performance in that regard. And the base quite clearly “got it.” They appear to me to be more behind him now than at any point. (Because this close to the election all they care about is winning.) Devilstower (Mark Sumner) at the Great Orange Satan had a great knock-off of a Sherlock Holmes story up this morning which made the point so creatively and well that I’ll not try to summarize; just recommend you read it if you get the chance. The GOPers are defending RMoney 1000% at this point. I went to Powerline the other day for the hell of it and was blown away (as always) at the shocking dishonesty of the commentary. But this time, they are frothing at the mouth at how anyone DARE claim that Romney doesn’t have a plan to cover pre-existing conditions. Of COURSE he does!!!! (I love that one commenter argued that the proof of that was that no one had pointed to anything in Romney’s literature where he specifically said that he didn’t have a plan to cover pre-existing conditions . . . and no they were not joking.) He succeeded in firing up his base while simultaneously gaining a few polling points with the undecideds; that’s a win-win for Romney. Romney has and will take some hits for not being honest, but that is not really that powerful. If there appears to be disagreement about the truth of two side’s factual claims, the kinds of voters who are still persuadable this late in the game are the same “undecideds” so brutally and accurately mocked by SNL, the type who don’t have the interest or stamina to resolve the disputed facts for themselves, and instead go on to base their decision on optics and “gut.” Moreover, the fact that this plays into the narrative that the media is obviously predisposed to push anyway helps Romney that much more. The race is going to tighten. I hardly think it it “hair on fire” to say that. I don’t know exactly what responses Team Obama has planned, or what their strategy will be for the remaining month. Since Team Obama has never failed to do anything but dazzle me with their political acumen, I’m still expecting a successful outcome. But anyone who thought that Romney was a nothing more than an empty gaffe-machine who was going to lose by 5 or 6 points was probably underestimating him. The man is smart, disciplined and highly motivated. The outcome remains to be seen, but it seems to me that it is just as foolish to underestimate your opposition as it is to concern troll.
MoZeu
@YAFB: The evidence is (1) Romney’s debate performance which speaks for itself and and (2) the fact that the polls have moved quite noticeably, and this not just GOP-leaning pollsters. Even Nate Silver anticipates a decent-sized bounce. And Romney has gotten no pushback from his base for flat-out denying and decrying long-popular Republican policy positions, B/c he spoke the right code, he threw out the right kind of buzzwords to let them know he is still one of them while ostensibly denying entirely that he wants to enact policies that only benefit the 1% and gut the safety net for everyone else. It was a very Reaganesque performance in that regard. And the base quite clearly “got it.” They appear to me to be more behind him now than at any point. (Because this close to the election all they care about is winning.) Devilstower (Mark Sumner) at the Great Orange Satan had a great knock-off of a Sherlock Holmes story up this morning which made the point so creatively and well that I’ll not try to summarize; just recommend you read it if you get the chance. The GOPers are defending RMoney 1000% at this point. I went to Powerline the other day for the hell of it and was blown away (as always) at the shocking dishonesty of the commentary. But this time, they are frothing at the mouth at how anyone DARE claim that Romney doesn’t have a plan to cover pre-existing conditions. Of COURSE he does!!!! (I love that one commenter argued that the proof of that was that no one had pointed to anything in Romney’s literature where he specifically said that he didn’t have a plan to cover pre-existing conditions . . . and no they were not joking.) He succeeded in firing up his base while simultaneously gaining a few polling points with the undecideds; that’s a win-win for Romney. Romney has and will take some hits for not being honest, but that is not really that powerful. If there appears to be disagreement about the truth of two side’s factual claims, the kinds of voters who are still persuadable this late in the game are the same “undecideds” so brutally and accurately mocked by SNL, the type who don’t have the interest or stamina to resolve the disputed facts for themselves, and instead go on to base their decision on optics and “gut.” Moreover, the fact that this plays into the narrative that the media is obviously predisposed to push anyway helps Romney that much more. The race is going to tighten. I hardly think it it “hair on fire” to say that. I don’t know exactly what responses Team Obama has planned, or what their strategy will be for the remaining month. Since Team Obama has never failed to do anything but dazzle me with their political acumen, I’m still expecting a successful outcome. But anyone who thought that Romney was a nothing more than an empty gaffe-machine who was going to lose by 5 or 6 points was probably underestimating him. The man is smart, disciplined and highly motivated. The outcome remains to be seen, but it seems to me that it is just as foolish to underestimate your opposition as it is to concern troll.
Micheline
@MoZeu: @MoZeu: You are on point.
Paul
@MoZeu:
All I can say is Mondale vs Reagan debate 1 in 1984. It was the same as what we are going through now. Mondale obliterated Reagan and the media went after Reagan’s age and what have you. People thought the race was over.
This morning there are already indications that the bounce is just a temporary bounce and is coming down. A poll in Colorado this morning is showing Obama with the same lead as prior to the debate.
MoZeu
@sdhays: I agree that Romney is not very likely to win.
I agree that the 47% comment and the foreign policy tour was not part of some 11th dimensional chess.
I agree it is quite possible that the Romney team did not plan to underperform and then break out around the time of the first debate- knowing that debates are his strength. Although I also think it is far from implausible to believe that this was part of an overarching strategy . . . I’m not sure why no one is willing to accept the notion that Romney could hire himself some good strategists who studied the successful Obama strategies).
But I think the rest of your comment is pure wishful thinking.
MoZeu
@Paul: I don’t think anyone on this thread has suggested that one good debate performance means Romney is going to win. There is a month to go and Obama (including his team of advisors) is – IMHO – the best politician I’ve seen in my lifetime.
But that doesn’t mean to me that I have to deny that Romney did himself a LOT of good in that debate. If the next two debates were to go the same way, I’d have to say its anyone’s race.
arguingwithsignposts
@MoZeu:
I’ll tell you why, because it hasn’t happened yet, and I haven’t seen one republican strategist anywhere who “gets” what the Obama team gets. On the other hand, the local GOP just set up their office on the square here, fully two months after the Dems had theirs open. So there’s something.
amk
@MoZeu: Wow. One debate ‘win’ seems to have transformed mittbot into a superman. I’m convinced.
Paul
@MoZeu:
It would obviously be better if Obama won the next debate. I’m not an expert to tell whether it’s anybody’s race if Obama loses the next two debates.
I do know that Bush lost all his three debates and won his re-election. He did this, eventhough he was a worse President than Obama (even at that point in time).
By the way, I read somewhere that most voters only watch the first 30 minutes of the first debate. They don’t watch the other 2 let alone the VP debate. That’s why I personally doubt the next 2 debates will matter much. Most folks had already made up their minds irregardless of the debates.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Paul: I think it’s still gonna be a couple days before we know the effect of that debate, but so far polling and reporting indicate that Romney stopped the bleeding with his supporters and slightly confused the ‘swing voters’. I’m not sure it isn’t a good thing that our side got jolted out of its complacency.
The realist with pessimist leanings in me thinks this is gonna be the long hard slog it was always gonna be. The small part of me that lives in hope thinks Plouffe and Axelrod may have something left in their bag of tricks that will throw Willard off a day or two before the next debate.
OT, the Hufffington Post had a big Concerned headline this morning about Romney getting important endorsements in swing states. One of those endorsements was a daily newspaper in Omaha.
MoZeu
Anyway . . . I feel like I’m starting to argue with a lot of people with whom I’m fundamentally in agreement here, and that’s never a good thing.
All I can say is I’m really looking forward to seeing Uncle Joe school that little ratboy from Wisconsin.
Any bets he manages to at least once get off a comment about Ryan’s “brass”??? :D
Yutsano
@MoZeu: It won’t happen, at least not directly, but I really really REALLY want a $350 wine bottle with lobbyists comment.
Paul
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
Not only will it be a few before days before we see the effect of the bounce but then another week or so when we see whether the bounce is real or not. A debate bounce rarely has staying power. You don’t have to believe me. It just is what it is.
I think it is a blessing in disguise that Romney stopped the bleeding. Hopefully money that was going to congressional races will go back to Romney.
I don’t know anybody who cares one outta about whether so and so gave whoever an endorsement, especially the undecideds who don’t even follow politics or read editorials.
YAFB
@MoZeu:
Learn to paragraph, dammit! ;0)
Beyond the spin, there are good, sound metrics that show Romney more or less bombed beyond his base. (I can provide a citation, FWIW, but I’d have to hunt it out.)
If Romney’s still having to shore up his base at this point (and I’m not convinced he’s succeeding overwhelmingly in that from my own reading – bear in mind that the commenters on those blogs such as Powerline will bloviate till the cows come home, and quite a large proportion of the RW blogs are astroturf operations), that says it all.
This all ignores Gary Johnson and the unpredictable Paul write-ins in certain key states, which are likely to sap some vital percentage points from Romney rather than Obama.
Silver’s hedged and said we’d likely see a bounce based on historical precedent (he cited a laughable wingnut poll with an unbelievable percentage of African-Americans favoring Romney the nother day; this has been superceded by more recent polling that shows Obama ahead in CO).
Anyway, a bounce is a bounce. If it’s a bounce, by definition it subsides pretty quickly. The only reputable polls I’ve seen have indicated that’s happening already, but we’ll know for sure by mid-week.
I haven’t seen any reputable polls that show Romney shaving off undecideds in significant proportions, despite your repeating that assertion, mainly because those sorts of polls have been very thin on the ground in reporting so far, so feel free to show them to me. Preferably ones that include a day or two after the jobs report and deficit reduction. It would help if they’re in the swing states that really matter, not national figures which mean little.
It’s quite possible the race will tighten. It’s also entirely possible that this will be just a temporary glitch. The question for me is whether you’re going to sit back and wait for somebody else to do something about it, or take agency yourself. My hands are tied in certain respects because of my nationality.
As for the media, if they get presented with a more entertaining and fiscally rewarding narrative, I doubt they’ll pass it up. Its done them well the past few months.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Paul: Yeah, I don’t think newspapers’ endorsements matter a damn any more, but I was especially amused to see hit-troll extraordinaire Arianna calling NE a swing state. I do think some endorsements matter. People say Menino’s endorsement will help Warren, especially with GOTV. I think if St Colin ever stops stroking his chin and endorses Obama again, that will influence the self-important chin-strokers, and move the narrative helpfully.
Joel
@MoZeu: I’m with ya, even on the FYWP. I think what’s important to remember is Obama has climbed harder hills before. But we (the supporters) need to get real with the opposition and push hard to get our guy across the finish line. I think we will, but it’s not going to happen on its own.
MoZeu
@YAFB: Yeah, time will tell about the polling, and no I’m not sitting back and waiting for someone else to do something about it. I just don’t want people to be too casual and underestimate Romney. Just because he is a douchebag does not mean that he cannot also be a formidable opponent.
YAFB
@MoZeu: Fair enough. Keep on trucking.
Violet
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
The very first televised debate–Nixon vs Kennedy–was won on style. Kennedy looked young and virile; Nixon looked shifty and sweaty. Those who listened on the radio–who were paying attention to content and tone, but no visuals–thought Nixon won. But watching them, it was Kennedy.
Style matters in debates. Anyone who thinks otherwise, and who thinks the media will pay attention to things like facts and ignore style–hasn’t learned from history.
MoZeu
@Joel: FYWP?? Hmm. I’m struggling. Google search suggests: F*#& You Word Press, F&*# You Wingnut Pitcher, First-Year Writing Program, and Fiscal-Year Work Plan.
None of these seem right. I give up. Help me out here?
Violet
@MoZeu:
It’s this one. FYWP was responsible for your double post, we’re guessing.
Hill Dweller
The new Obama ad “Cameras” is pretty devastating. It lays out Willard’s lies in the debate, and ends by saying we still have things that need solving, and “the country needs a President with character, not a politician who plays one on TV”.
Willard’s lying was the topic on the Sunday shows, reinforcing the Obama campaign’s narrative. Gingrich even admitted Willard lied about his tax plan.
The Obama campaign has to make Willard’s lying the lasting impression of that first debate.
FlipYrWhig
@Hill Dweller: This has been an interesting twist — it’s as though Team Obama decided to take Romney’s confidence and aggression at the debate and use it against him, like, “Yeah, he looked polished and bold. Where’d that come from, and why is it so out of line with what we’ve all been seeing? Is it because he’s lying all over again?”
In general, though, my impression is that Romney scored a lot of points on aggression and confidence, which is what put the big-dog liberal pundits on edge. But I really don’t know that The People care so much about aggression and confidence when picking a president. I bet it doesn’t hurt, but I’d also bet it isn’t determinative.
I said something along these lines a few days ago, but, to repeat it partially, football fans tend to feel like defensive struggles fueled by smash-mouth line play are more real, more “how to play the game,” and they tend to look askance at finesse. But that doesn’t mean that you have to play smash-mouth to win, or that smash-mouth always beats finesse.
Hill Dweller
@FlipYrWhig: Style certainly wins debates in the short term, but research has shown it’s the post-debate media narrative that has the lasting effect. The media has worked very hard to push the Mitt-mentum narrative, but Willard’s lies and the Big Bird gaffe are breaking through the chatter.
MoZeu
@Violet: Oh! I figured I was! I tried to delete it, but it doesn’t look like it worked. And that was sort of a long, rambling one too. Oops. Sorry!
feebog
Yes, rMoney won the first debate on style. But he lost on substance and had to lie his ass off all evening. Team Obama is going to be ready for this tactic in the second debate and I double damn guarantee you it will not work twice.
How many posters think Biden will let Ryan get away with this tactic on Wednesday?
How many posters on this blog want to bet $10,000 that rMoney won’t make a huge gaffe in the next 30 days, laying waste to his entire campaign?
Chill out, this is a pothole, not an abyss.
Central Planning
Romney sounds like the Angel of Death.
SBJules
I’m a former Mormon & yes, they only give to other Mormons.I despise Romney.