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You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / David Brooks Giving A Seminar At The Aspen Institute / Buzz Off, Creep

Buzz Off, Creep

by Zandar|  October 8, 20128:19 am| 208 Comments

This post is in: David Brooks Giving A Seminar At The Aspen Institute, Election 2012, Fuck The Poor, Assholes, Bring On The Meteor, Serenity Now!, Very Serious People

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Friday Night Lights author Buzz Bissinger has decided that last Wednesday’s debate was the impetus he needed to go from “life-long Democrat” to “Romney moderate”.  If you can stop laughing at that moronic leap of non-logic to read the rest of Bissinger proving he should stick to sports and not politics, it’s comedy gold on par with the best of the Village Idiots.  Here’s a taste:

I have never seen a performance worse than Obama’s, distracted, his head dipped into the podium as if avoiding the smell of something rotten, acting above the very idea that a debate does provide a pivotal referendum on his first term as it has for all incumbent presidents, whipsawed by the legion of usual advisers telling him to play defense when his own intuition should have told him that he needed to go on the offensive as Romney slapped him around.

But there was more than the entitlement of entitlement. He struck me as burnt out, tired of selling his message although he has always been terrible at selling his message when it veers from idealism into the practical.

By instinct I still cling to my Democrat roots. But I admit that as I get older, on the cusp of 58, I am moving more to the center or even tweaking right, or at least not tied to any ideology. Those making more than $250,000 should pay more taxes, and that does include me. But I also am tired of Obama’s constant demonization, of those he spits out as “millionaires and billionaires,” as pariahs. Romney’s comments at a fundraiser were stupid, but 47 percent of Americans do not pay federal income taxes. Yes, a majority are poor and seniors. But millions do not pay such taxes with incomes of more than $50,000, and whether it’s as little as $10, every American should contribute both as a patriotic obligation and skin in the game. This is our country, not our country club.

Come to think of it, Buzz here probably does have a long and glorious future career as rich white dude over at the NY Times or Washington Post scolding the rest of us lazy schlubs, I would imagine.  Look, if any part of your “middle-aged crisis conversion to Republican” speech involved your belief that President Obama is acting privileged and entitled, and that Mitt Romney is a regular Joe Moderate, I call bullshit on you ever being a liberal in the first place.  You’re not converting from anything, you’re copping to a couple decades of denial.

He even uses the odious phrase  “skin in the game”, which is Villager 101 for “screw you poor people, it’s time for you to suffer.  You’ve had it too easy.”  If your train of thought involves you coming around to “toss a few of those folks into the volcano to please the centrist island gods” you were never, ever a liberal.  You’re just an asshole.

Buzz’s article is so intellectually bankrupt, I swear it’s recycled Bobo Angst and Friedman’s Mustache, but the entire argument is too sophomoric for even that level of effort.  It’s Bobo and Friedman’s Mustache phoning it in after an all-night bender of NCIS episodes, unsweetened iced tea and boneless teriyaki wings, and by “all-night” I mean 11 PM.

Like I said, he’ll fit in fine over there.

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208Comments

  1. 1.

    jibeaux

    October 8, 2012 at 8:26 am

    I’ve said it before, but if you have a problem with the Earned Income Tax Credit, you need to dig up the corpse of St. Ronnie and yell at him, not people just following the tax code which includes tax breaks and credits for the working poor that Republicans used to fucking love.

  2. 2.

    MariedeGournay

    October 8, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Hey Buzz, if Obama has any reason to be burnt out it’s because of self-serving cowards like you.

  3. 3.

    negative 1

    October 8, 2012 at 8:28 am

    He converts in talking points. Gee I wonder if his conversion is on the up and up.

  4. 4.

    lacp

    October 8, 2012 at 8:30 am

    I sense a new Breitbart star being born…..wonder when Eddie Rendell is finally going to join him and make the move to the other side of the aisle…

  5. 5.

    eric

    October 8, 2012 at 8:30 am

    rule number one of the village…if you want the village to take you seriously as a messenger of political wisdom, then you have to promote some sort of pain to show that you are not a “tax and spend” liberal promising sunshine and lollipops. Moreover, the pain cannot befall for those whom it would be inconvenience rather than pain. So, you cut SS benefits or raise the retirement age, but you, never ever, raise the payroll tax limit. Heck, if you proposed creating a SS tax on capital gains over $100,000, that would not be serious because it is that ol’ redistribution thing of the 60s.

  6. 6.

    Mark S.

    October 8, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Buzz has long been an idiot.

  7. 7.

    Jay in Oregon

    October 8, 2012 at 8:31 am

    I was listening to an Ed Schultz rerun over the weekend.

    After he spent half an hour or so rending his garments over Obama’s performance at the debate and mansplainin’ what Obama needs to do in the next two debates (before cautioning everyone not to give in to despair), he did have a good response to the “skin in the game” argument.

    Say you have two people sitting next to each other in church: one is the janitor at the high school, the each is the owner of the local grocery store chain. One winter, the weight of the snow causes the roof to cave in. Would anyone demand that janitor’s donation to the church be as large as the grocery store owner’s?

  8. 8.

    chopper

    October 8, 2012 at 8:36 am

    other ‘tells’ include phrases like ‘I still cling to my Democrat roots’.

    yeah, i was a total liberal. abortion on demand, free drugs, all that democrat party stuff.

  9. 9.

    pattonbt

    October 8, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Irs always about money for the these assholes.

    They just want an excuse to bitch that they pay too much so its fair to demonize poor people who pay a far larger share of their annual income in taxes of all variaties than the rich, just not in “federal income taxes” (one of hundreds of types of taxes). Add up a poor persons total tax bill and its criminally high compared to the wealthy.

    Its always IGMFY for these asshats.

    When has Obama demonized millionaires and billionaires? He bends over backwards fellating them and praising their job creating skillz. He just notes they should pay their fair share after 30 years of getting to criminally reduce their portion porportionally to the poor.

    This asshole is not R curious – hes an asshole who really wants to desperately find an excuse for it to be politically correct in saying “Im selfish and I no longer want to put my money where my mouth is and Im a greedy fuck”. So I’ll bitch about ONE debate performance as an excuse to give up and allow my inner asshole out.

    Go fuck yourself dude.

  10. 10.

    eric

    October 8, 2012 at 8:37 am

    @chopper: food stamps for my steak dinners too

  11. 11.

    Paul

    October 8, 2012 at 8:43 am

    But millions do not pay such taxes with incomes of more than $50,000, and whether it’s as little as $10, every American should contribute both as a patriotic obligation and skin in the game. This is our country, not our country club.

    They do pay. They pay sales taxes, they pay property taxes, they may pay SS Taxes and Medicare taxes etc.

    But whatever…On the other hand, people like Romney or corporations like GE do not pay their fair share. As buzz,or whatever he calls himself, said “this is our country, not our country club”.

  12. 12.

    Handy

    October 8, 2012 at 8:43 am

    The older I get the more liberal I become.

    I think the guy is a liar and pip.

  13. 13.

    prufrock

    October 8, 2012 at 8:43 am

    He even uses the odious phrase “skin in the game”

    It puts the lotion on its skin in the game, or it gets the hose again.

  14. 14.

    Hal

    October 8, 2012 at 8:43 am

    acting above the very idea that a debate does provide a pivotal referendum on his first term as it has for all incumbent presidents

    Buzz should go back and watch other first debates. I hear this reaction is pretty standard for incumbents.

    But I admit that as I get older, on the cusp of 58, I am moving more to the center or even tweaking right, or at least not tied to any ideology.

    Huh, what? You’re a Democrat, but now you’re moving to the center, but wait! Maybe you’re moving to the right…or possibly towards no ideology at all. (But yet you’re still endorsing Mitt Romney.)

    Also, commenting that “sure, most of the folks who don’t pay federal income tax are poor or elderly, but…” makes you sound like an asshole. Argument negated right out of the gate.

  15. 15.

    Ed in NJ

    October 8, 2012 at 8:43 am

    @Mark S.:

    Exactly. Bissinger long ago went from being known as the “author of Friday Night Lights” to “that idiot who rants about blogs and sounds like a moron”.

    Hoping that Michael Schur and the rest of the Fire Joe Morgan team weighs in. Their nickname for Bissinger is Spittly T. Yourefullofshit

  16. 16.

    techno

    October 8, 2012 at 8:43 am

    Now that I am in my 60s, I beginning to feel that old conservative pull to the right—this after a lifetime of being from the Farmer-Labor wing of the Minnesota DFL. However, I want NO part of today’s Republican Party. When I think of Republicans I could associate with, I am more inclined towards Robert LaFollette—the long-term Republican Governor and Senator from Wisconsin who ran as a Progressive for President in 1924. Or maybe Rochester Minnesota’s Frank Kellogg of the Kellogg Briand Pact—an international agreement outlawing war and the legal basis for the Nuremberg Trials. Or perhaps Charles Lindbergh (the congressman from the 6th) who wrote such prescient articles on money and banking in the early 20th century they could have been written last week.

    Anyway, I am genuinely sorry that there isn’t an acceptable Republican Party now that I am entering my “you kids get off my lawn” coothood. Unfortunately, the party of Lincoln has gone completely insane.

  17. 17.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    October 8, 2012 at 8:44 am

    Bissinger becomes older, wealthier, and less relevant in sports writing. Buzz becomes a Republican.

  18. 18.

    Ben Cisco

    October 8, 2012 at 8:46 am

    Entitled asshole is entitled.

  19. 19.

    eric

    October 8, 2012 at 8:46 am

    @Hal: the only reason you move to the right at at his age is the belief that “I earned what is coming to me, so now leave me alone to the fruits of my labors.” Political solipsism.

  20. 20.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 8:46 am

    There’s also the possibility that this clown’s “conversion” is precisely as deep as his flimsy prose. Give him a solid Obama performance in the town hall and watch him go all prodigal son. (I for one don’t plan on bothering to see if this does indeed happen.)

  21. 21.

    prufrock

    October 8, 2012 at 8:47 am

    Speaking of skin in the game, has anyone been to Alabama recently? Sales tax of 10% in Montgomery, even on food.

    However, if you’re poor you can void that tax…if you don’t eat.

  22. 22.

    Mark S.

    October 8, 2012 at 8:47 am

    It is a joy to watch a mind as great as Buzz’s wrestle with the issues:

    I know that when Romney says people with preexisting conditions will be reinsured, he leaves out the gigantic footnote that first they had to have coverage through their jobs.

    It’s also basically the law we already have.

    But I also question the ability of Obamacare to control costs, given the administrative nightmare that exists when government is involved. One of the Obamacare methods of cutting those costs, the computerization of hospital records, has resulted in massive fraud by cheating doctors.

    Damn those computers to hell!

  23. 23.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    October 8, 2012 at 8:49 am

    OT: The DK Abbreviated Pundit Roundup had this piece, which will appeal to a number of people here and TBogg:

    In electoral politics, this current has manifested itself as a tendency to view the ballot as a personal statement. Any number of tiny parties on the Left will be running presidential candidates in 2012; to vote for these parties is to “vote one’s conscience.”
    __
    But what if your ballot is not your voice? What if, in fact, your ballot is really just a small quantum of power, to be deployed strategically in concert with other like-minded persons? In the words of Carl Davidson, a former SDS leader who is a fan of Sanbonmatsu, “In the long run you need both self-expression and strategy. You need the inspiration that can be provided by self-expression, but you need a smart strategy that enables you to win.”

  24. 24.

    eric

    October 8, 2012 at 8:49 am

    @Mark S.: luckily for Buzz, the market controls costs so much better. Empiricism, how does it work?

  25. 25.

    amk

    October 8, 2012 at 8:51 am

    Gotta earn those doubloons dood. Fuck my history.

  26. 26.

    jibeaux

    October 8, 2012 at 8:52 am

    @Mark S.: Yeah, I’d say this is a “needs cite”….

    One of the Obamacare methods of cutting those costs, the computerization of hospital records, has resulted in massive fraud by cheating doctors.

  27. 27.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    October 8, 2012 at 8:54 am

    @Mark S.:

    Good thing that health care costs in the private sector are so well controlled by the necessity of adding onto them profits for shareholders. Wonder why it is that the “administrative nightmare that exists when government is involved” has, in the case of VA medical care, resulted in lower administrative overhead than the private sector.

  28. 28.

    Jay in Oregon

    October 8, 2012 at 8:54 am

    @prufrock:
    10% sales tax? Ten percent? And food is not exempt?

    Obviously, the poor people there don’t have enough skin in the game.

  29. 29.

    eric

    October 8, 2012 at 8:54 am

    @jibeaux: so the computerization of records has NOT cut costs, so we should go back to all paper records all the time. This time warping effect of Obamacare to go back TEN FUCKING YEARS to computerize records is one more reason to vote for Obama — he has got some mean voodoo.

  30. 30.

    Napoleon

    October 8, 2012 at 8:56 am

    I am not going to click on the link but from what is quoted it is very safe to say this guy has long not been a Democrat and he is BSing the reader by saying he is. He has always intended to vote for Romney.

  31. 31.

    gogol's wife

    October 8, 2012 at 8:56 am

    @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    He’s always been wealthy. His father was a big businessman.

  32. 32.

    Paul

    October 8, 2012 at 8:56 am

    @Mark S.:

    But I also question the ability of Obamacare to control costs, given the administrative nightmare that exists when government is involved.

    France spend less than 11% of their GDP on healthcare, while the US spends 17%. And the government IS involved in the French health care system and it is ranked #1 in the world.

    Perhaps Buzz should try again? Perhaps with REAL FACTS next time

  33. 33.

    Chinn Romney

    October 8, 2012 at 8:57 am

    My takeaway was that Buzz didn’t see round 1 of Kerry vs Bush. Ole George easily had the worst performance I’ve seen in my lifetime. Obama was just lethargic, Bush was downright frightening. And it made not a whit of difference in the outcome.

  34. 34.

    amk

    October 8, 2012 at 8:59 am

    @Paul: eeew-roo-peans ? Come on dood, paree is good for only draft dodging.

  35. 35.

    The Red Pen

    October 8, 2012 at 8:59 am

    When the federal income tax was introduced, it managed to get tepid political support on the promise that only the super-wealthy would ever pay it. For a while this was true.

    How did we get from that to complaining about poor people not paying it? What’s wrong with us?

  36. 36.

    Chyron HR

    October 8, 2012 at 8:59 am

    I used to be a Democrat, but ever since the Obama/Romney debate I’ve been outraged about computerized medical records.

  37. 37.

    Comrade Mary

    October 8, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Shorter Buzz: “I saw Obama flayed, and you would not believe the difference it made in him.”

    Akiga, a Tiv of Nigeria who had received a Western education, heard that his father had killed & flayed one of Akiga’s sisters, and given her skin to Akiga’s brother to wear at a ceremonial dance. In his autobiography, Akiga tells how he went to the dance, but saw nothing more than his brother dancing, holding a woman’s filter & his father’s pipe. Yet the following day, the people who had gone to the dance were full of the story of how the brother Hilehaan had danced in his sister’s skin. They weren’t trying to deceive anyone; they were talking among themselves, discussing the important event they had witnessed. They had obviously perceived “the skin of the sister” (in the filter) “who had been flayed by her father” (in the father’s pipe). Only the Western-minded Akiga saw just a filter & a pipe.

    But it’s also pretty easy for some western people to see an empty suit or an empty chair when it aligns with their self-interest and need to be comforted and secure in the world, too.

    “Skin in the game”, indeed.

  38. 38.

    Lurking Canadian

    October 8, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Again and again, the Republicans bitch
    The rich are too poor and the poor are too rich

    Other than niCLANG, that’s their whole platform.

  39. 39.

    max

    October 8, 2012 at 9:05 am

    @Ash Can: There’s also the possibility that this clown’s “conversion” is precisely as deep as his flimsy prose. Give him a solid Obama performance in the town hall and watch him go all prodigal son.

    It is totally interesting to watch the rats who were sighing at the inability of Romney to campaign and whining about the lack of deficit-reduction to suddenly see an opening and decide this is the moment to prove their R bona fides.

    I guess they can all go hangout with Romney’s campaign staff post election.

    (I for one don’t plan on bothering to see if this does indeed happen.)

    Never watched the show. Not thinkin’ I missed anything.

    max
    [‘I value my old age in that it gives a decent nose for what in pop culture I will regret consuming later.’]

  40. 40.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    October 8, 2012 at 9:05 am

    @The Red Pen:

    How did we get from that to complaining about poor people not paying it? What’s wrong with us?

    I’m pretty sure that 1) the rich and 2) the deluded rich-in-waiting have always complained about poor people not paying federal income tax. Thanks to decades of right-wing propaganda there are now a lot more self-righteous folks in the second category.

  41. 41.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    October 8, 2012 at 9:05 am

    @Mark S.:

    But I also question the ability of Obamacare to control costs, given the administrative nightmare that exists when government is involved. One of the Obamacare methods of cutting those costs, the computerization of hospital records, has resulted in massive fraud by cheating doctors.

    Healthcare costs since Obamacare came into effect have risen at 4% per year, far less than the 9-10% that occurred each year prior.

    And the fraud had nothing to do with computers, because they involved patients receiving payments for their signature.

    And, one of the things that Obamacare allows is for the government to completely cut off Medicare payments to doctors that are found to have committed fraud.

    (From the DK article on the bust the other day.)

  42. 42.

    Mark S.

    October 8, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Oh, and Buzz on foreign policy:

    I believe that Romney’s move to the center is not yet another flip-flop sleight of hand, perhaps naively. I believe he will send to the political Guantanamo those dirty old white men of the party ready to bomb Iran

    Yes, Buzz, Mitt’s really going to curb stomp Sheldon Adelson, the guy who’s given him untold tens of millions of dollars and thinks we should defer in all things to Bibi. The mental gymnastics people go through to not admit they are voting Republican because they hate blah people.

  43. 43.

    eric

    October 8, 2012 at 9:07 am

    @Shawn in ShowMe: it happened when we offically recognized african americans as full citizens and then recognized that help was needed to lift them from the poverty after their collective subjugation for more than 250 years. As soon as that happened, that green money became a bit more white.

  44. 44.

    golfina

    October 8, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Apparently, everyone who does not agree with you is simply stupid. The problem for Obama is a lot of people like Mr. Bissinger have been looking for a reason not to vote for him. Until the debate, Romney did not give anyone but the people who never would have voted for Obama that reason. The debate gave everyone else who wants it that reason. And, I believe that it was less Romney’s performance that Obama’s inexplicable total failure to (1) speak to his own record, (2) address what Romney was saying, (3) give even the most minimal appearance that he even thought he should be on that stage and (4) look at us – the voters. Obama’s performance was a failure not only of substance but also of appearance. Obama gave many voters the comfort they needed to vote for him instead of John McCain in 2008 by being informed and reasonable. Even if you think it is stupid, Obama may have just given many voters the comfort to vote for Romney instead of himself in 2012.

  45. 45.

    PeakVT

    October 8, 2012 at 9:09 am

    One of the Obamacare methods of cutting those costs, the computerization of hospital records, has resulted in massive fraud by cheating doctors.

    I see three errors and one pathetic rhetorical maneuver in this one sentence. Did I miss any?

    ETA: This sentence seems to have tripped a lot of bullshit detectors.

  46. 46.

    Jose Padilla

    October 8, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Buzz is from a privileged background and went to Phillips Academy. He’s just getting in touch with his inner preppy.

  47. 47.

    PeakVT

    October 8, 2012 at 9:12 am

    @golfina: Your concern is duly noted.

  48. 48.

    Eric U.

    October 8, 2012 at 9:12 am

    this crap is really old. Welcome to the year 2000, mr. Buzz, when “democrats” for Bush reached a peak. As a lifelong Republican, this sort of nonsense makes me sick, sick, sick.

    See also, CSPAN caller lines

  49. 49.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 9:15 am

    But I also question the ability of Obamacare to control costs, given the administrative nightmare that exists when government is involved.

    Thank god there’s no administrative nightmare when no private for-profit insurance companies are involved. As those of us who have had to deal with them can attest….

    Buzz might want to check out a comparison of the amounts spent on administrative overhead by the VA and by private insurance companies, respectively.

    One of the Obamacare methods of cutting those costs, the computerization of hospital records, has resulted in massive fraud by cheating doctors.

    Yes, this wasn’t a problem before Obamacare. Oh, wait:

    “In settlements reached in 2000 and 2002, Columbia/HCA pled guilty to 14 felonies and agreed to a $600+ million fine in the largest fraud settlement in US history.

    “Columbia/HCA admitted systematically overcharging the government by claiming marketing costs as reimbursable, by striking illegal deals with home care agencies, and by filing false data about use of hospital space. They also admitted fraudulently billing Medicare and other health programs by inflating the seriousness of diagnoses and to giving doctors partnerships in company hospitals as a kickback for the doctors referring patients to HCA. They filed false cost reports, fraudulently billing Medicare for home health care workers, and paid kickbacks in the sale of home health agencies and to doctors to refer patients. In addition, they gave doctors “loans” never intending to be repaid, free rent, free office furniture, and free drugs from hospital pharmacies.[4][5][6][7][8]

    “In late 2002, HCA agreed to pay the U.S. government $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims.[26] In all, civil law suits cost HCA more than $2 billion to settle, by far the largest fraud settlement in US history.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Scott#Columbia.2FHCA_fraud_case_details

  50. 50.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    October 8, 2012 at 9:17 am

    @golfina:

    The problem for Obama is a lot of people like Mr. Bissinger have been looking for a reason not to vote for him.

    The problem is that Obama is being held to a standard no other President has ever been held to. “I was disappointed in his first debate performance so I’m taking my ball and going home.” Really?

  51. 51.

    xian

    October 8, 2012 at 9:17 am

    @Jay in Oregon: that’s not a response to “skin in the game,” which might suggest that the rich guy pay most of it but that the janitor chip in $1, so he feels involved, or something like that

  52. 52.

    xian

    October 8, 2012 at 9:18 am

    @chopper: probably means “I was raised by white blue collar Democrats” and want to be considered a man of the people

  53. 53.

    amk

    October 8, 2012 at 9:19 am

    @golfina: Idjit comment. Read the buzz, the troll, again.

    I believe that it was less Romney’s performance that Obama’s inexplicable total failure

  54. 54.

    rlrr

    October 8, 2012 at 9:21 am

    I have never seen a performance worse than Obama’s,

    George W. Bush in 1984 was far worse.

  55. 55.

    xian

    October 8, 2012 at 9:22 am

    @Mark S.: or has it led to exposure of massive fraud by cheating doctors, hence BizBuz knowing about it?

  56. 56.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Look, if any part of your “middle-aged crisis conversion to Republican” speech involved your belief that President Obama is acting privileged and entitled, and that Mitt Romney is a regular Joe Moderate, I call bullshit on you ever being a liberal in the first place. You’re not converting from anything, you’re copping to a couple decades of denial.

    Did you say or think anything along those lines about John Cole when he converted from the right to the left?

    Why do so many liberals flock to a website from a converted conservative, but feel they need to quickly stomp on a life-long Democrat who thinks Obama hasn’t been anywhere close to what he was billed as, didn’t deliver on his promises and has been phoning it in lately in his presidency and in the most important debate of his life?

  57. 57.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 9:23 am

    One of the Obamacare methods of cutting those costs, the computerization of hospital records, has resulted in massive fraud by cheating doctors.

    And seriously, what the fuck is he saying? That computerization of medical records is only a result of Obamacare, without which it never would have happened, rather than an inevitable result of the computerization of all records and data throughout every field in society? Does he believe we shouldn’t computerize hospital records and instead go back to pen and paper, and how does he believe that’s going to work in an Internet age?

  58. 58.

    JWR

    October 8, 2012 at 9:25 am

    I still cling to my Democrat roots.

    Yeah, he wrote that. Not his Democratic roots, but his DemocRat roots. This guy left his Democratic roots sometime in the mid-1990’s

  59. 59.

    eric

    October 8, 2012 at 9:26 am

    @Dennis: Cole left the GOP because they were stone cold crazy not because they were ineffectualy arguing for valid policy outcomes.

  60. 60.

    Hal

    October 8, 2012 at 9:26 am

    @golfina:

    The problem for Obama is a lot of people like Mr. Bissinger have been looking for a reason not to vote for him. Until the debate, Romney did not give anyone but the people who never would have voted for Obama that reason.

    People looking for any excuse not to vote for Obama, were never going to vote for Obama in the first place. This ludicrous idea that a single debate, especially the first debate, should negate The President’s actual record, and that that performance negates everything Romney has done, and said he will do if he becomes President, proves this point:

    Apparently, everyone who does not agree with you is simply stupid.

    Yes, it is fucking stupid to say you are going to vote for Romney because of the debate. It is fucking stupider to pretend these candidates are remotely the same, to ignore Romney’s complete 180 on issues like health care reform, or to ignore just how fucking bad Romney would be for middle class, and working class people.

    and (4) look at us – the voters.

    You didn’t wish me happy birthday on Facebook, so I burnt your house down. Happy now?

  61. 61.

    Chyron HR

    October 8, 2012 at 9:27 am

    @Dennis:

    I bet you think those “Don’t Re-Nig” bumper stickers are on the cars of life-long Democrats who blah, blah, blah, too.

  62. 62.

    mai naem

    October 8, 2012 at 9:28 am

    @golfina: There’s nothing wrong with people criticizing Obama’s performance but it is disingenuous to say that you are letting go of your Democrat roots and OMG I can now go vote for Romney. This is coming from a journo, yeah, a sports journo, but still a journo. I heard Bissinger being interviewed about his book about his son who’s autistic. My guess is that the son is part of the 47 percent. Possibly not, because his parents are extremely wealthy(as in old Wall Street money wealthy.) Still, with his son, Bissinger, of all people should know about skin in the game crap.

  63. 63.

    1badbaba3

    October 8, 2012 at 9:28 am

    @Dennis: If you have to ask…

  64. 64.

    Lurking Canadian

    October 8, 2012 at 9:30 am

    @Dennis: Cole seems not to have claimed, after his conversion, that Teddy Kennedy always was the rock-ribbed conservative he was looking for.

    “I am sick of Obama” is not equivalent to “Romney’s a moderate”.

  65. 65.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    October 8, 2012 at 9:30 am

    @Dennis:

    IIRC, Cole wrote at some length about where he thought his thinking had been wrong and why he changed parties. That Cole’s conversion was the result of a long process, rather than the outcome of one debate, is significant beyond your ability to comprehend.

    You are a dickish, concern troll. Fuck off.

  66. 66.

    David

    October 8, 2012 at 9:31 am

    Dear Penthouse Forum,

    As a lifelong Democrat . . .

  67. 67.

    Paul

    October 8, 2012 at 9:32 am

    I have never seen a performance worse than Obama’s,

    Really? Are you that senile that you don’t remember Reagan’s first debate against Mondale?

  68. 68.

    mingo

    October 8, 2012 at 9:34 am

    I do not want to respond to the troll, but for other people who might actually see a conundrum in Dennis’ issue, the difference is huge: I expect that JC finally could not stand the massive shit-wave of insanity, cruelty, ugliness and pure incompetence displayed by the right-wing (includes TP, repubs, conservatives, etc.) and had to change his views.

    Whereas BB is looking at reality-centered, competent, sane and at least somewhat workable policies and pretending to become a “romney moderate” because of one slightly-less-than- stellar theater performance.

  69. 69.

    MrSnrub

    October 8, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Bissinger is on my local wingnut talk radio station, at evening drivetime.

    The format seems to be a lame version of Hannity and Colmes. I try not to steer into oncoming traffic when I listen.

  70. 70.

    Joey Maloney

    October 8, 2012 at 9:34 am

    “Buzz Bissinger”? That’s an actual human’s actual name? I’m pretty sure if I had ever named a character that in creative writing class it would’ve been red-pencilled.

  71. 71.

    eric

    October 8, 2012 at 9:34 am

    @Paul: I would say Mccain’s “that one” debate was not a shining star in the firmament of debate greatness.

  72. 72.

    aimai

    October 8, 2012 at 9:34 am

    @prufrock:

    I love you.

    aimai

  73. 73.

    amk

    October 8, 2012 at 9:36 am

    We seem to have a sudden influx of trolls today. ‘debate bump’ flattening out?

  74. 74.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    October 8, 2012 at 9:36 am

    @Rafer Janders:

    The computerization of hospital records was the simplest way to ensure compliance with HIPPA, which became law in 1996. Nothing like a candidate for president who doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about.

  75. 75.

    aimai

    October 8, 2012 at 9:37 am

    @Dennis:

    But all those things lead “lifelong democrats” to become third party or anarchists. No one who thinks Obama has been too moderate or too compromised thinks the cure is Romney. Cole didn’t move into the teaparty (which didn’t exist when he converted) he swung all the way against the shibboleths of his entire party.

  76. 76.

    RSA

    October 8, 2012 at 9:38 am

    This is our country, not our country club.

    I wonder which country clubs are open to people who can only afford a $10 annual membership fee? Those members must really be lucky duckies.

  77. 77.

    Cacti

    October 8, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Wealthy 58-year old white dude likes Romney.

    So, where’s the news in this story?

  78. 78.

    Napoleon

    October 8, 2012 at 9:39 am

    @MrSnrub:

    Bissinger is on my local wingnut talk radio station, at evening drivetime.

    Every night, or often, as a regular guest?

  79. 79.

    aimai

    October 8, 2012 at 9:39 am

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Hey, Lurking Canadian, please say hello to Mrs. Lurking Canadian! I can’t remember her handle but I figure I must be bumping up against her all the time at the DWIL which is &^% full of Canadians.

    aimai

  80. 80.

    Lurking Canadian

    October 8, 2012 at 9:42 am

    @aimai: Thanks. Yes, she calls herself black rabbit (after our pets, who are down to two after a sad discovery this morning).

    She reads me your DWIL posts all the time.

  81. 81.

    Paul

    October 8, 2012 at 9:43 am

    @Dennis:

    I take it you are a billionaire? Why else would you support a candidate whose policies will hurt everybody else?

  82. 82.

    Trakker

    October 8, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Bissinger makes more than $250,000 so I think we can assume he’s got a pretty easy life compared to a family of four trying to survive on $50,000 or less.

    I make less than Bissinger but my income is enough for a comfortable life. Here’s the deal about that. Even though I know the poor are struggling every minute of every day, I have trouble comprehending how tough it is for them.

    I shop at a supermarket where many patrons are working class. I constantly pass shoppers with calculators keeping track of their purchases, agonizing over many those decisions. I see people in front of me in the checkout line who put their least needed purchases at the end in case they reach their budgeted limit before everything is rung up. I see it in their eyes when something they really want has to be put aside.

    And yet, these brief encounters with the reality of working class America only makes me realize how fortunate I am but doesn’t come close to helping me feel just what it must be like to squeeze the most out of every penny, a life with no chance of a night out, a trip to a theme park for the kids, nothing frivolous. Then on top of all this, they are dismissed as leaches by the well-off.

    I wish someone would make a political ad about what it’s like to be poor, how much they already struggle to survive and the ask why anyone would suggest they don’t suffer enough.

  83. 83.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 9:47 am

    @golfina: According to the polls, the number of voters “looking for an excuse not to vote for” Obama and are swayed by one lousy debate is extremely small. And they can obviously be swayed back at the drop of a hat. Basically, they may or may not be stupid, but they’re definitely not paying attention.

    This is in contrast with someone like Buzz Bissinger, who purports to be actually paying attention. Anyone who really is paying attention, and is looking for an excuse not to vote for Obama when the alternative is Mitt Romney and a Republican Party that has long since gone right-wing SDS, is either not being honest about his actual political leanings or, yes, is bone-deep stone-cold stupid.

    As for you, @Dennis: You’re just trying to be funny, right?

  84. 84.

    PurpleGirl

    October 8, 2012 at 9:49 am

    @Dennis: …and in the most important debate of his life?

    What do you mean, the most important debate in his life? Hey, there are still two debates to go. Everything doesn’t hang on the first debate. (Besides, I think the President just may have been a little preoccupied with the problems involving Turkey that day.)

  85. 85.

    ericblair

    October 8, 2012 at 9:49 am

    @golfina:

    And, I believe that it was less Romney’s performance that Obama’s inexplicable total failure to (1) speak to his own record, (2) address what Romney was saying, (3) give even the most minimal appearance that he even thought he should be on that stage and (4) look at us – the voters.

    As a little analysis, here, our pal seems to be saying that he/she or a significant number of voters cannot support Our Man Bamz not because he’s bad at presidentin, but because he didn’t do enough of a good job at curb-stomping the other guy. It’s almost like asserting dominance over The Other and Showbiz is more important even if you agree with the actual substance. “Well, I was going to get vaccinated against bird flu, but the country ran such a lackluster ad campaign about it that I just can’t possibly justify it now.”

    Also, “I’ve been a lifelong Democrat because of WINGNUT_STANDARD_DEMOCRATIC_MOTIVATION_MISUNDERSTANDINGS but I’m now voting for the other guy because STANDARD_WINGNUT_TALKING_POINT_LIST” is getting tiresome.

  86. 86.

    bklyn4eveh

    October 8, 2012 at 9:50 am

    Reading Buzz’s rationalizing feels like being waterboarded with kool-aid.

  87. 87.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 9:50 am

    @eric: @Higgs Boson’s Mate:

    That Cole’s conversion was the result of a long process, rather than the outcome of one debate, is significant beyond your ability to comprehend.

    Zandar and several others have argued just the opposite, though, Higgs….. “I call bullshit on you ever being a liberal in the first place. You’re not converting from anything, you’re copping to a couple decades of denial.”

    You want it both ways. You call Bissinger a liar for saying this one debate made him switch his mind about Obama, but then argue his conversion (which wasn’t a conversion from liberal to conservative, only from a liberal president to a moderate Republican) was not really a conversion at all, that he’s never really been a liberal. But somehow Cole’s conversion was pure, because it involved careful thought and introspection over a long period of time.

    That doesn’t follow logic.

  88. 88.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 9:51 am

    @Lurking Canadian: Condolences on your loss. :(

  89. 89.

    Laura

    October 8, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Wait, this asshat thinks computerizing medical records is a BAD THING? Because having all that important shit about all your diseases and medications WRITTEN DOWN ON PAPER is superior?

  90. 90.

    SiubhanDuinne

    October 8, 2012 at 9:53 am

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Yes, she calls herself black rabbit (after our pets, who are down to two after a sad discovery this morning).

    Oh dear. I’m very sorry.

  91. 91.

    aimai

    October 8, 2012 at 9:55 am

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Holy shit I was reading this thread backwards and I thought Mrs. Lurk had died. I’m sorry about the Rabbit, that must have been very distressing. GIve her a hug from me.

    aimai

  92. 92.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 8, 2012 at 9:56 am

    This is our country, not our country club.

    The idea that someone would be persuaded by Mitt Romney that the _other guy’s_ vision was too much like a “country club” just beggars belief. And add to that the idea that it’s like a country club principally because not everyone has to pay dues… I don’t know what the fuck this idiot is thinking either literally or analogically.

  93. 93.

    Persia

    October 8, 2012 at 9:57 am

    @Ash Can: I dunno, Obama will still be black. I feel a little of Sununu’s ‘lazy’ BS behind this one.

  94. 94.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 9:57 am

    @Dennis: Of course it follows logic. Switching from Obama to Romney under any circumstances isn’t just a switch, it’s a trans-oceanic voyage, given the vast differences between the two. And to purport to be doing it on the basis of one lousy debate — only the first of three, yet — against the backdrop of Obama’s many years in government and Romney’s many years of campaigning, is, as I said above, either completely dishonest regarding motivation or completely stupid. But then, I suppose it could be both.

  95. 95.

    Virginia Highlander

    October 8, 2012 at 9:59 am

    @Dennis:

    That doesn’t follow logic.

    Oh, the irony!

  96. 96.

    amk

    October 8, 2012 at 9:59 am

    @FlipYrWhig: The nut was vomiting mittbot’s talking points, word for word.

  97. 97.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    October 8, 2012 at 9:59 am

    @Paul:

    It’s not enough to be disappointed by a thing. To validate your disappointment, it has to be the worst EVAH.

    That “low-maintenance” girl you met on a dating site who defied expectations by ordering a $20 plate at Red Lobster? Worst date EVAH. That football game you watched with two high-powered offenses that turned into a contest of field goals? Worst game EVAH.

  98. 98.

    KXB

    October 8, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Although I did vote for Obama and will do so again this November, I have not formally switched to Democrat yet. The reason is not Obama, who is cool under pressure, but so many of his fellow Dems and media types who pissed their pants after the first debate. Obama had a bad night – but you would think from the reaction that voters would forget that Obama got us out of Iraq, passed health care reform, ended Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, engineered the auto bailout, did not let an American city go under during hurricane season, and gave a tremendously uniting speech after the Tucson shooting. I’ll take that over Romney’s razzle-dazzle, which basically tossed out his campaign rhetoric for the previous 5 years.

  99. 99.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 10:01 am

    @Persia: In light of the mind-numbing idiocy that’s already appeared in this thread, that once again becomes the most reasonable explanation. By far.

  100. 100.

    Lurking Canadian

    October 8, 2012 at 10:02 am

    @aimai: I need to be more careful where I put my commas, it seems. The loss of Fiver is sad, but not that sad. He lived a long time and was visibly suffering lately.

    Mrs LC, I am happy to confirm, is in excellent health.

  101. 101.

    1badbaba3

    October 8, 2012 at 10:04 am

    @Dennis: Logic? Logic? Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow.

  102. 102.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 10:04 am

    @KXB: You don’t have to switch to anything at all. Just stay as sensible as you are. :)

  103. 103.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 8, 2012 at 10:04 am

    @amk: Be that as it may, “country club” is completely 100% ass-backwards. The whole point of a country club is that it’s selective and members pay dues. He thinks Obama makes the country too much like a country club because… you don’t have to pay to get the benefits. In other words, to Buzz Bissinger, Obama’s America is like a country club because they let in anyone for free. This is a professional writer-type person. What the fucking fuck?

  104. 104.

    bemused

    October 8, 2012 at 10:06 am

    @jibeaux:

    jibeaux,
    If you’re still here, thanks for mentioning George Takei FB the other day. Love it.

  105. 105.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 10:07 am

    @Ash Can:

    Switching from Obama to Romney under any circumstances isn’t just a switch, it’s a trans-oceanic voyage, given the vast differences between the two.

    Objectively, was Cole’s switch any less of a trans-oceanic voyage?

    My only question was why do you revere one guy’s conversion, but spit on the other guy’s? There doesn’t seem to be any consistency to that logic other than what side you’re on.

  106. 106.

    Virginia Highlander

    October 8, 2012 at 10:07 am

    @Dennis:

    Why do so many liberals flock to a website from a converted conservative

    Because John can write and has something interesting and coherent to say.

    What Bissinger offers, here, is none of these things and in addition fails the smell test. It deserves nothing but mockery and contempt.

    Besides, people vote for modern conservatives due to personal defect, whether mental or moral. The idea that someone could rationally and in good conscience dump Obama and support Romney is absurd on the face.

  107. 107.

    dww44

    October 8, 2012 at 10:09 am

    @prufrock: Golly, that is high. But this is what has happened with the 2010 takeover of so many of our state governments. Here the GOP state goverement has been figuring out ways to eliminate the corporate and income taxes (which aren’t onerous) and replace them with fees on top of fees, closing state parks that don’t pay for themselves in admissions revenues, and most cowardly and sneakily in my mind, up the ante on the costs of wildlife car tags and designate most of that revenue for the general treasury fund.

    As one wildlife person in our Dept of Nat. Resources said, “they’ve taken a program which put large sums of money into our parks and forests and rivers and destroyed it.” Cause people like me elected not to renew their wildlife license plate and swapped down to a regular car license tag at no additional costs/ I didn’t even have to buy the car tag.

    The economic downturn has really provided ideal cover to defund or weaken every government program they despise anyways.

  108. 108.

    Mike in NC

    October 8, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Never met a guy who went by “Buzz” or “Skip” or “Chip” who wasn’t a complete douchebag.

  109. 109.

    ericblair

    October 8, 2012 at 10:11 am

    @KXB:

    The reason is not Obama, who is cool under pressure, but so many of his fellow Dems and media types who pissed their pants after the first debate.

    The media types I discount because they’re not our friends, and their motivations are completely different from Democrats’ motivations.

    The fellow Dems who wail and piss their pants at each apparent setback are a pain in the ass. Especially since they seem to be the same Dems who demand No Quarter No Surrender, absolute all-in take-it-or-leave-it hardass negotiation, and for each politician to buck their electorate and Stand Up For What They Believe In whatever the cost.

    You know, if you’re going to demand that, you’d better have some serious brass gonads, iron will, and decades of determination. Maybe if you slash your wrists at the first setback, the vanguard of the glorious revolution is just not for you.

  110. 110.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 8, 2012 at 10:11 am

    @Dennis: Um, it’s politics, genius. “What side you’re on” is everything.

  111. 111.

    JenJen

    October 8, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Oh, for fuck’s sake! I saw Mitt bust out Coach Taylor’s famous “Clear eyes, full heart, can’t lose” line from Friday Night Lights over the weekend on the stump, and thought, “WTF?”

    The Twitter just told me Buzz endorsed him, so I guess that’s why. I could just vomit after reading that.

  112. 112.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    October 8, 2012 at 10:12 am

    @Dennis:

    You want it both ways. You call Bissinger a liar for saying this one debate made him switch his mind about Obama, but then argue his conversion (which wasn’t a conversion from liberal to conservative, only from a liberal president to a moderate Republican) was not really a conversion at all, that he’s never really been a liberal.

    Um, I didn’t call ol’ Buzz a liar, did I? The difference in magnitude between Cole’s change of parties and Bissinger’s change of parties is a yawning chasm.

    I would note in passing that Romney’s transformation into a moderate took place almost as quickly as Bissinger’s transformation into a Republican. I would further note that Bissinger’s transformation will likely last far longer than that of Romney.

  113. 113.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 10:14 am

    @Dennis:

    Objectively, was Cole’s switch any less of a trans-oceanic voyage?

    No, it wasn’t. That’s my whole point. We’re spitting on Bissinger’s “conversion” because it’s not a conversion. It’s bullshit. Illusion. There is no “there” there. His thought process is clear — he was never that into Obama in the first place, and he’s jumping at the chance to say he’s ditching him. He was a Romney voter all along. All he needed was a little push to say so.

  114. 114.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 8, 2012 at 10:14 am

    @Dennis: “Why do you fault someone for voting for Republicans when you yourself vote for Democrats? Voting is voting! There’s no difference other than what side you’re on!”

  115. 115.

    WereBear

    October 8, 2012 at 10:14 am

    I’ve been hearing Republican stories which end, “And so this doctor, because computerizing records cost sooooooo much, is closing his practice!”

    Word for word.

    And you know, I’ve realized just this weekend that if it’s true; it’s because they were committing fraud. And now they’ll get caught.

    Thank you, President Obama.

  116. 116.

    KrisWV

    October 8, 2012 at 10:15 am

    @Dennis: For starters, Cole has a very long pro-Bush paper trail (pixel trail?) when he converted, which kind of goes to verifying the truth of the conversion.

  117. 117.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    October 8, 2012 at 10:17 am

    @KXB:

    What do you mean by “not formally switched to Democrat?” As long as you vote for Democrats, you’re fine in my book. There’s no requirement to wear Rachel Maddow flag pins and post snarky comments to Tom Friedman columns.

  118. 118.

    Laura

    October 8, 2012 at 10:17 am

    @KXB: Considering you have never been a Democrat (I’m assuming) you obviously have no idea what enduring decades of Republican sociopaths can do to people.

  119. 119.

    amk

    October 8, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Soledad O Brien takes it to the totally clueless mittbot spox woman on his Palestinian double talk.

    Wish she is a debate moderater.

  120. 120.

    ThresherK

    October 8, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Didn’t Buzz Blightyear do this already, in 2008?

    How many times can a soul convert before the deity doesn’t accept its calls?

  121. 121.

    Laura

    October 8, 2012 at 10:19 am

    @JenJen: Wait, WHAT? No no no no no no no no no this can’t be I cannot have that phrase sullied by Mittens what noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

  122. 122.

    Brachiator

    October 8, 2012 at 10:19 am

    This Buzz guy is wrong and misinformed. But at this point, you want to bring people like him back into the fold, not kick them to the curb.

    The point is to get votes, not to purge the unworthy.

  123. 123.

    Mark S.

    October 8, 2012 at 10:20 am

    @Dennis:

    I don’t give a shit if Buzz used to be a liberal or not. His reasons for supporting Romney (skin in the game!, computerized medical records!, etc) are idiotic. He also projects a lot of nonsense about Romney, like Mitt would never pass a tax cut that would blow up the deficit and Mitt will end all of our wars in the Middle East, that are highly dubious.

    From the few times I’ve read Buzz’s horrible sportswriting, I’ve come away with the impression that Buzz really likes worshiping sports heroes. He longs for a time when most people didn’t know that Ruth and Mantle spent most of their time drinking and whoring and not visiting sick children in hospitals. He likes projecting onto guys who are good at sports, so why not do some of that on Mitt?

  124. 124.

    Joey Maloney

    October 8, 2012 at 10:20 am

    @1badbaba3: No, logic is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad.

  125. 125.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 10:26 am

    @Ash Can:

    His thought process is clear—he was never that into Obama in the first place, and he’s jumping at the chance to say he’s ditching him. He was a Romney voter all along. All he needed was a little push to say so.

    Here’s a tweet from Bissinger a couple yeas ago, Ash Can:

    “Obama wants everybody to love him. How much time was wasted on bipartisanship. Fuck it. Fuck those who don’t like you. Grab what you can.”

    Doesn’t sound to me like he was a Romney voter all along.

  126. 126.

    Cacti

    October 8, 2012 at 10:28 am

    @Brachiator:

    This Buzz guy is wrong and misinformed. But at this point, you want to bring people like him back into the fold, not kick them to the curb.

    I don’t see it as a case of being misinformed. I see it as a declaration of “if I have to choose between the rich and the poor, I choose the rich.”

    It’s the manifesto of another 50-60 something white man who can’t bear the thought of those lucky duckies with “no skin in the game”.

    Lost cause.

  127. 127.

    Comrade Mary

    October 8, 2012 at 10:28 am

    @Mike in NC:

    Never met a guy who went by “Buzz” or “Skip” or “Chip” who wasn’t a complete douchebag

    That Buzz Aldrin was alright. Also, Buzz Lightyear, once he loosened up.

    I think the pattern you see with nicknames and doucheitude may be related to the vanity of old money and the scion factor.

    A nickname can be used to distinguish members of the same family sharing the same name from one another. This has several common patterns among sons named for fathers:
    __
    The first bearer of the name can be referred to as Senior, Daddy or have “Big”, or “Older” placed in front of his given name, as in “Big Pete”, or “Older Pete”.
    __
    A son named after his father (but not after his grandfather) is often referred to as Junior, Chip (also a diminutive of Charles, but in this case in reference to “a chip off the old block”), Skip, Sonny, Bud, Buddy, or Deuce. Skip can also refer to a man named after his paternal grandfather, implying that the name “skipped” a generation. Another common nickname for a son named after his father is having “Little” placed in front of his name, as in “Little Pete”, though this tends to be avoided if possible (especially if the son happens to become physically bigger than the father he’s named after, and/or when the son becomes a full grown adult, regardless of if he does, or doesn’t physically outgrow the father he shares a name with).
    __
    The third generation carrying a name (usually with III after his name) is often referred to as Trey, Tripp, or Trip (from Triple). Skip also is a frequently used nickname for “thirds” because they “skipped” being a “Junior”.
    __
    The fourth generation carrying a name (usually with IV after his name) may be referred to as Ivy, (as in IV) Quad, Quadry, or Dru (from Quadruple).
    __
    The fifth generation carrying a name (usually with V after his name) may be referred to as Quint, Quince, Quincy, or Quinton (from Quintuple).

    I think the Junior thing is pretty common among all classes, but once you get into third generation and beyond, this kind of nicknaming is more likely to be found among the monied.

  128. 128.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    October 8, 2012 at 10:30 am

    @Dennis:

    Objectively, was Cole’s switch any less of a trans-oceanic voyage?

    Cole’s transformation took place over two years. Bissinger’s transformation took place over two hours, while watching a TV show.

  129. 129.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 8, 2012 at 10:31 am

    If it helps, I’m calling Buzz a liar, or at least highly suspicious. Claiming to be a Reagan Democrat (or the current version) and preaching about how you’ve left the childishness of liberal thinking behind for the sober, responsible, manly adulthood of the Republican Party is the Village’s favorite game. It’s the foundation of every totebag pundit. ‘It hurts me more than it hurts them, but I finally accepted that the poor are too lazy and need tough love.’

    EDIT – In case I wasn’t clear, it’s their ratfucking tool to make less involved Democrats listen to bullshit talking points.

  130. 130.

    Cacti

    October 8, 2012 at 10:34 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    If it helps, I’m calling Buzz a liar, or at least highly suspicious. Claiming to be a Reagan Democrat (or the current version) and preaching about how you’ve left the childishness of liberal thinking behind for the sober, responsible, manly adulthood of the Republican Party is the Village’s favorite game. It’s the foundation of every totebag pundit. ‘It hurts me more than it hurts them, but I finally accepted that the poor are too lazy and need tough love.

    And call me equally suspicious, but I’ve got a feeling that when Buzz talks about those with no “skin in the game” he isn’t thinking about the caucasians of Appalachia.

  131. 131.

    ericblair

    October 8, 2012 at 10:34 am

    @FlipYrWhig:

    “Why do you fault someone for voting for Republicans when you yourself vote for Democrats? Voting is voting! There’s no difference other than what side you’re on!”

    This is kind of an interesting blind spot for some of our more excitable buddies. There are left-wing authoritarians as well as right-wing ones, who are far less concerned with policy than who looks like the biggest baddest daddy figure. Of course they mention policy, but it’s policy as tribal marker rather than policy as actual policy, so arguments are superficial with a lot of key words thrown around, and non-negotiable.

    So yes, for a subset of people this is all shirts-versus-skins and dominance.

  132. 132.

    MrSnrub

    October 8, 2012 at 10:37 am

    @Napoleon:

    Every night, or often, as a regular guest?

    A regular show. Started some time over the summer.

  133. 133.

    Petorado

    October 8, 2012 at 10:37 am

    But there was more than the entitlement of entitlement. He struck me as burnt out, tired of selling his message although he has always been terrible at selling his message when it veers from idealism into the practical.

    Few will disagree that Obama’s debate performance failed to shine and generate enthusiasm. Mr. President, no Emmy for you. But once past the visuals and theatrics, folks like Buzz are some serious mental midgets to say the are shifting their votes to a candidate determined to cause economic hardship on the masses so he can give himself a huge tax cut because he didn’t find Obama’s performance entertaining enough. This is a vote about the future of our nation, not a vote for who’s the next American Idol.

  134. 134.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 10:39 am

    But millions do not pay such taxes with incomes of more than $50,000, and whether it’s as little as $10, every American should contribute both as a patriotic obligation and skin in the game. This is our country, not our country club.

    Right, because the characteristic of a country club is that only half the members pay dues, while the other half use it for free.

    What the fuck? His analogy is at complete odds with his argument. We’d be more, not less like a country club if we charged mandatory dues for full membership.

  135. 135.

    lacp

    October 8, 2012 at 10:39 am

    I’m not sure exactly how one moves to the center or “tweaks right” (a strange and misfortunate use of words), all the while clinging to one’s Democrat (sic) roots, by embracing an opportunistic automaton that feeds off the fantasies of lunatics.

  136. 136.

    JenJen

    October 8, 2012 at 10:40 am

    @Laura: I KNOW!!

  137. 137.

    Citizen_X

    October 8, 2012 at 10:40 am

    @1badbaba3: Heh heh. Logic is a pretty flower–that smells bad.

    Anyway, isn’t it lovely to be in Autumn, when the concern trolls are falling off the trees?

  138. 138.

    ericblair

    October 8, 2012 at 10:41 am

    @WereBear:

    I’ve been hearing Republican stories which end, “And so this doctor, because computerizing records cost sooooooo much, is closing his practice!”

    When the local fucking tire store can do it without bitching up a storm, maybe it’s time to look at your business skills.

  139. 139.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 10:42 am

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    That “low-maintenance” girl you met on a dating site who defied expectations by ordering a $20 plate at Red Lobster?

    Excuse me, but I have been reliably informed by David Brooks that it is not possible to spend $20 on a dinner at Red Lobster.

  140. 140.

    1badbaba3

    October 8, 2012 at 10:42 am

    @Dennis: Dude, give it up. Your boy Rmoney is going to need a lot more than Buzz and a fake debate ‘win’ to beat this President. But I think you already know that, because you have seen Mittens bumbling and stumbling all over the globe for the past three plus months just like everybody else. Why don’t you go support you candidate, instead of trolling an ex-conservatve blog?

  141. 141.

    azlib

    October 8, 2012 at 10:43 am

    The meme that poor people do not pay taxes is just idiotic. A working poor person pays payroll taxes on every dollar earned unlike folks whose income is above $105K. They also pay sales tax, gasoline tax and do not forget user fees which are just a substitute for taxes and usually fall harder on the poor.

    What is insane about this whole tax argument is Obama is talking about raising the marginal tax rate by 4% which means the actual increase in taxes paid on the wealthy is far less.

    Personally, I think the highest marginal rate should be 70% on income above $250K. Any family making that kind of money is wealthy as far as I am concerned.

  142. 142.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 10:46 am

    @Dennis:

    My only question was why do you revere one guy’s conversion, but spit on the other guy’s? There doesn’t seem to be any consistency to that logic other than what side you’re on.

    I don’t know, why do we revere one guy who switched from what we regard as the side of evil to the side of good, but spit on the guy who switched from the side of good to the side of evil?

    I guess you’re right: pure logic demands that we should treat both equally. The mere mechanical fact of the switch itself, not the substance and motivation and real world consequences, is obviously what matters here….

  143. 143.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 8, 2012 at 10:51 am

    @Rafer Janders: I picked up on the same stupid rhetorical bit too. It’s just terrible.

  144. 144.

    stratplayer

    October 8, 2012 at 10:54 am

    How many people out there even know who the fuck Buzz Bissinger is, let alone give two shits what he has to say about anything?

  145. 145.

    1badbaba3

    October 8, 2012 at 10:55 am

    @Rafer Janders: Both sides do it?

    @Joey Maloney: @Citizen_X: Spock rules, wingnut trolls drool. Suck it righties!

  146. 146.

    KXB

    October 8, 2012 at 10:55 am

    @Shawn in ShowMe:

    Well, for state-level offices in Illinois, I do vote Republican. Gov. Quinn is nice, but ineffective. Real power wrests with IL House Speaker Mike Madigan, who is corrupt to the core. While serving the people of Illinois, he also has a law firm, and most of his clients are companies that do business with the state. His daughter, Lisa, is the Attorney General, and while she investigates some companies that rip off IL taxpayers, she does not touch her daddy’s clients.

    My state income tax went up almost 60% in the past year, my vehicle sticker price doubled – but I was willing to deal with it because it was sold as part of a plan to reform public spending & pensions and help eliminate the “pay to play” culture in Illinois. After they passed these hikes, they abandoned any talk of reforming pensions. Illinois has more public debt per person than California, which despite its own problems, still has a growing, vibrant economy. I believe we have either the worst or next to worst credit rating of any state.

    I am not going to move because of the tax and spend situation in state – because there is more to such decisions. But, the way in which the state Democrats have conducted the people’s business is an embarrassment, but Republicans are still trying to piece themselves together after the disasterous George Ryan governorship.

  147. 147.

    Citizen_X

    October 8, 2012 at 10:58 am

    @Rafer Janders: A real liberal wouldn’t be so partisan.

  148. 148.

    catclub

    October 8, 2012 at 11:02 am

    “@Virginia Highlander: “Because John can write and has something interesting and coherent to say.”

    What a nice way to write ‘naked mopping and Tunch’.

  149. 149.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 11:02 am

    @Rafer Janders:

    I guess you’re right: pure logic demands that we should treat both equally. The mere mechanical fact of the switch itself, not the substance and motivation and real world consequences, is obviously what matters here….

    I’m guessing for most people here it wouldn’t matter what the mechanics of Bissinger’s conversion consisted of.

    Nor Cole’s for that matter.

  150. 150.

    JenJen

    October 8, 2012 at 11:05 am

    @Dennis:

    I’m guessing for most people here it wouldn’t matter what the mechanics of Bissinger’s conversion consisted of.
    Nor Cole’s for that matter.

    And you’d be wrong about that.

  151. 151.

    Another Halocene Human

    October 8, 2012 at 11:10 am

    @prufrock:

    Speaking of skin in the game, has anyone been to Alabama recently? Sales tax of 10% in Montgomery, even on food.

    God has provided them an object lesson in why they should have voted for that income tax.

    The question is, do they listen?

  152. 152.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 11:11 am

    @Dennis:

    Here’s a tweet from Bissinger a couple yeas ago, Ash Can:
    __
    “Obama wants everybody to love him. How much time was wasted on bipartisanship. Fuck it. Fuck those who don’t like you. Grab what you can.”
    __
    Doesn’t sound to me like he was a Romney voter all along.

    He could very well have been; this tweet says nothing about it. Here’s what it does say. First, it shows that he was never into Obama from the beginning, if he has this lack of understanding and appreciation of Obama’s policies and governing style. Second, it shows that he would clearly side with a strong authoritative/daddy figure, whomever that may be. Third, it shows that his political allegiance has nothing to do with actual policies and everything to do with tribalism and appearances. If Romney filled the bill for him from the outset, yes, he would have been a Romney voter all along. As it is, this tweet is inconclusive, because it says nothing about his allegiance to Romney and everything about his lack of allegiance to Obama.

  153. 153.

    KXB

    October 8, 2012 at 11:16 am

    @Laura:

    In my younger days, I gravitated towards Republican ideas because growing up near NYC, I saw the chaos of 1970’s and 1980’s Democratic mismanagement. Crime was high, garbage was everywhere, schools were a joke – and there was only one party to choose. Before you jump up – I do know that there was issues of white flight, Reagan cutting spending on big cities, etc. But the NY Dem party seemed to abandon even the idea of public order and safety. I still remember the 2,245 murders in 1990 alone.

    Then, starting in the 1990s, you had a series of centrist Republicans and Democrats who put greater emphasis on basics such as public safety & management. Of course, national Republicans have now abandoned the idea of public management, and have adopted privatization of public services, regardless of costs or efficiency. Plus the punching bags of gays, godless folks. and gun-snatchers. They no longer even talk about making government work better, they simply argue that government is an enemy. There is something that happens when a Republican has established a record of public management at the state level seeks national office – they just adopted the crazy. Like Romney.

  154. 154.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 11:20 am

    @Dennis: How simple do people here have to make this? Bissinger’s “conversion” is due entirely to appearances, while Cole’s conversion was due to his entire political party losing its collective mind and fomenting policies that were expressly opposed to everything about the United States that he held dear. THESE the “mechanics” of these two cases. If anyone is ignoring them, it’s definitely not us.

  155. 155.

    McJulie

    October 8, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I think this is more proof that the biggest Romney “win” of the debate was that it halted the “Romney = loser” narrative. So people who didn’t want to vote for Obama, but also didn’t want to vote for a big loser, suddenly have their justification.

    I’m still fascinated that Romney supporters aren’t more disturbed that he basically “won” by tossing out every position he’s ever claimed to have, and also claiming that he never had those positions at all.

  156. 156.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    October 8, 2012 at 11:24 am

    I’m pretty close to the Illinois border so we get regular reports about the cesspool that is Illinois politics. But as you’ve already alluded to, your state’s main problem is corruption, not party affiliation. Mike Madigan is an easy target because he has been able to hold onto his perch for a ridiculously long time.

    When I speak of voting Democratic, I’m thinking selfishly of the Senate and the Presidency. I have no idea how you clean up Illinois, or even Chicago politics. Harold Washington tried and it literally killed him. But I do know this — only a Democrat would be idealistic enough to even try.

  157. 157.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 11:24 am

    @Dennis:

    My only question was why do you revere one guy’s conversion, but spit on the other guy’s? There doesn’t seem to be any consistency to that logic other than what side you’re on.

    Getting back to this stupidity, “what side you’re on” IS WHAT MATTERS.

    You can’t say “other than what side you’re on” as if it’s only some trivial folderol or completely inconsequential, when everything we’re fighting for and arguing about is based upon what side we’re on.

  158. 158.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 11:26 am

    @Dennis:

    I’m guessing for most people here it wouldn’t matter what the mechanics of Bissinger’s conversion consisted of.

    Your guessing ability seems to be no better than your analytical ability.

  159. 159.

    Ash Can

    October 8, 2012 at 11:28 am

    @KXB: Unfortunately, Illinois Republicans are getting a significant teabagger infusion, including on the state level, so they’re not necessarily the moderate, competent pols they used to be.

  160. 160.

    Persia

    October 8, 2012 at 11:28 am

    @Dennis: For one thing, Cole didn’t change his mind after one lackluster debate performance.

  161. 161.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 11:29 am

    @Dennis:

    Here’s a tweet from Bissinger a couple yeas ago, Ash Can:“Obama wants everybody to love him. How much time was wasted on bipartisanship. Fuck it. Fuck those who don’t like you. Grab what you can.” Doesn’t sound to me like he was a Romney voter all along.

    Actually, “Fuck those who don’t like you. Grab what you can” sounds EXACTLY like a Romney voter.

  162. 162.

    Bill in Section 147

    October 8, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Democrats do not have Democrat roots. They are not even in the Democrat Party. Buzz sucks at the troll.

  163. 163.

    MKS

    October 8, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Democrats and “Progressives” and “Liberals” are Compulsion, disguised as compassion – and the disguise gets thinner every moment.

  164. 164.

    RaflW

    October 8, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Late to the party, but I have to say 1) who is this moran? 2) does anyone pay attention to his ravings? 3) he’s a fucktard with some pitiful butthurt.

    But I also am tired of Obama’s constant demonization, of those he spits out as “millionaires and billionaires,” as pariahs.

    Whaaambulance! Also, too, citations of Obama doing this?
    It’s pathetic.

  165. 165.

    KXB

    October 8, 2012 at 11:41 am

    @Ash Can:

    Most of my Democratic relatives and friends in Illinois recall fondly voting for Republican Jim Edgar for governor. Certainly IL Republicans heading off to the House are Tea Party darlings, like that buffoon Joe Walsh. But suburban Republicans trying to win Springfield know that rhetoric won’t fly for their level. Yet.

  166. 166.

    ding dong

    October 8, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Can we ignore Buzz. In his bio he says he splits his time between Philly and the Pac northwest. His vote does not matter in either state. Presidential vote anyway. He can vote for green for all I care.

  167. 167.

    prufrock

    October 8, 2012 at 11:50 am

    @Jay in Oregon: Yep. As a matter of fact, I made my family laugh the last time I was up there because of that tax.

    I had to go to the grocery store to get the stuff for Easter dinner. When I got back to the car, I said, “I can’t believe they tax food at 10%.” Cue laughter. Apparently, my wife bet my mom and sister that those would be the first words out of my mouth.

    Nine years of marriage let’s you know about someone.

  168. 168.

    Comrade Mary

    October 8, 2012 at 11:58 am

    @McJulie:

    I think this is more proof that the biggest Romney “win” of the debate was that it halted the “Romney = loser” narrative. So people who didn’t want to vote for Obama, but also didn’t want to vote for a big loser, suddenly have their justification.

    That’s a good point. Romney probably did improve his chances with this subgroup of the undecided.

    I just don’t know how big this group is. I suspect a lot of them are white and male. It’s also possible that Romney’s aggressive, condescending approach turned off a lot of women, some ethnic groups, etc. It’s worth repeating that while he made some gains, they may be counteracted by losses and/or not they can’t be sustained.

  169. 169.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Because John can write and has something interesting and coherent to say.

    @Virginia Highlander:

    That may very well be true. Bissinger has a Pulitzer and several bestsellers, a movie and a successful television show.

    @Chinn Romney:

    My takeaway was that Buzz didn’t see round 1 of Kerry vs Bush. Ole George easily had the worst performance I’ve seen in my lifetime. Obama was just lethargic, Bush was downright frightening.

    Per Gallup: Romney’s 52 point margin of victory in that debate was the largest Gallup has ever measured, Chinn. So it’s not baffling to me that you’d see guys like Bissinger moving over to Romney. What’s baffling is that this site, of all the liberal blogs, is where you’d find the most vitriol to someone like him who changed his mind. And Bissinger didn’t switch sides, he merely switched candidates.

  170. 170.

    Howlin Wolfe

    October 8, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    @negative 1: As Zandar said, “You’re not converting from anything, you’re copping to a couple decades of denial.”

  171. 171.

    Tim I

    October 8, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Good riddance to bad rubbish. I think it is helpful to keep all of the assholes on the Republican team. I will also let the producers at Chris Matthew’s Hardball know that they will lose me as a regular viewer if they ever have this douche on again – he’s been a semi-regular, talking about the Penn state shit show.

    Also as a 57 year old, I’d like to say that advancing age is no excuse for stupidity.

  172. 172.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    October 8, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    @Comrade Mary:

    I think the Junior thing is pretty common among all classes, but once you get into third generation and beyond, this kind of nicknaming is more likely to be found among the monied.

    It used to be very common among rural Southern whites, monied or not. Disentangling a family in the census where all four sons named their firstborn after grandpa can be a nightmare.

    And it’s still common in some rural areas. I’ve worked with two men so far who came from communities where so many people share the same names that everyone has some sort of nickname.

  173. 173.

    catclub

    October 8, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    @Rafer Janders: Also, the “Obama wants everybody to love him,” bit, sounds like the GOP hatred of Obama coming through as well.

  174. 174.

    dyz

    October 8, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    @MrSnrub: I listen from time to time, only because I was very slightly acquainted with Steve Martorano (his co-host) about a million years ago.

    Buzz laments regularly that he’s being demonized because he’s rich and was, in fact, born rich. Some of his crap is so over the top I suspect it’s schtick, but the article makes me wonder.

    There are moments when Buzz reminds me of Michael Savage, except I have not yet heard him refer to himself in the third person.

  175. 175.

    Shalimar

    October 8, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    @Persia: For one thing, Cole didn’t change his mind after one lackluster debate performance.

    He did begin to change his mind after looking at Frist’s Schiavo performance art along with the rest of that clusterfuck though. He has been saying “holy shit, these people are nuts” for a lot of years since then, so I think Cole gets points for consistency. After reading Bissinger, I’m still not sure what he believes other than tea party talking points, which raises the question of why he didn’t believe them any time in the previous 20 years.

  176. 176.

    catclub

    October 8, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Southern nicknames:
    Lawyer trying defendant on a stabbing: “Isn’t it true that your nickname is ‘Blade’?”
    Defendant: “So what, _your_ nickname is Buddy, but you aren’t my friend.”

  177. 177.

    The Thin Black Duke

    October 8, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Bottom line, if Romney wins the presidency, it won’t be because of what Obama did or didn’t do.

    It will be because of assholes like Buzz who won’t own up to their own cowardice/racism/stupidity/lunacy.

    And anybody who tries to tell you different is trying to sell you something.

  178. 178.

    JoyfulA

    October 8, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: I know a V called Skip; IV was Bud. I do not know what Skip calls VI. Skip’s oldest sister was given the same name as their mother.

    This is a poor family of whites in Pennsylvania with probable Appalachian origins. I always considered them uncreative in their names.

  179. 179.

    MrSnrub

    October 8, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    @dyz: gotcha. I thought I recognized Martorano’s voice, but never heard him identified. I usually listen for 10 minutes at most, just to see what the right wing talking points of the day are

  180. 180.

    LanceThruster

    October 8, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    @eric:

    I remember seeing a PBS series/special on reconstruction/civil rights movement/redlining in Los Angeles…various aspects of how black Americans have been disenfranchised from the start. Talk about not getting any equity from ones labors. No 40 acres and a mule either. Black property owner jerked around constantly to protect white priveledge. Prominent families talk about the long trail of starting from nothing and making their own way, yet oblivious to the type of adversity that a person of color faced/faces daily at every level. Add to that the resurrected indignity of voter suppression. It speaks of a group with no shame for past crimes, nor present ones, nor ones they’re in the process of committing.

    Killing PBS and Big Bird is par for the course for those who want to operate in the shadows long enough to consolidate power in order to be able to continue the same actions openly.

  181. 181.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    @Dennis:

    That may very well be true. Bissinger has a Pulitzer and several bestsellers, a movie and a successful television show.

    Slight correction here: the movie and TV show were based on his book, but he didn’t write the movie nor the TV show.

  182. 182.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    October 8, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    @JoyfulA: You’ll find Scottish naming traditions all through Appalachia.

  183. 183.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    @Dennis:

    And Bissinger didn’t switch sides, he merely switched candidates.

    Read what you wrote there. Then read it again. Now read it a third time. Actually, take as long as you need, because if you’re capable of writing that, I assume it’s going to take you some time to spot the error.

    Though I suppose it’s true in the same sense that Benedict Arnold didn’t switch sides, he merely switched which army he was fighting for.

  184. 184.

    Sly

    October 8, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    I used to believe in progressive taxation, civil rights, and unions, but 9/11 bailouts healthcare reform Obama’s debate performance changed all that.

  185. 185.

    khead

    October 8, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    So, Buzz wrote a book about his relationship with his developmentally disabled son, Zach. Anyway, here’s the Shorter Buzz on schools and government from chapter 6. See if any of this looks familiar….

    ——>

    There are lots of folks gaming the system – but the vast majority, like Zach, are legit. The legit folks are fighting a civil war against the gaming folks because the people who game the system give the rest of us a bad name.

    The other problems?
    Schools with tight budgets trying to exclude kids like his.
    His wife has to have an annual meeting with SSA before Zach gets the check.
    Zach has to have an aptitude test every few years to show that he still qualifies.

    But the government should spend more on Zach, less on wars.
    I love teachers.

    ——>

    Yeah, I suppose it does suck when you have to prove stupid shit to other people to get your government money or approval. The folks who aren’t gaming the system shouldn’t have to go through that. See also, voter ID laws and welfare/unemployment urine tests. Too.

    I did keep reading to see if Buzz told anyone to get off his lawn later in the chapter.

  186. 186.

    Napoleon

    October 8, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    So now it seems maybe Buzz was coordinating with Mitt.

  187. 187.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    @Rafer Janders:

    Read what you wrote there. Then read it again. Now read it a third time. Actually, take as long as you need, because if you’re capable of writing that, I assume it’s going to take you some time to spot the error.

    This is what I’m referring to, Rafer.

    “By instinct I still cling to my Democrat roots. But I admit that as I get older, on the cusp of 58, I am moving more to the center or even tweaking right, or at least not tied to any ideology.”

    He said nothing about becoming a Republican or a conservative. I doubt he’ll become a conservative blogger, either. OR someone who attracts not converts but lifelong conservatives to his flock. He sounds like just as serious a thinker as anyone here, as serious as Cole is and was when he changed his mind over several years, and that his decision didn’t come easy and he makes it with reservations. That’s what I meant when I said he didn’t switch sides, just candidates this time, because that candidate wanted it more and that debate was the tipping point for him. A point that the left made about GWB after his first debate in 2004, that he didn’t really want the job, either.

  188. 188.

    Napoleon

    October 8, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    @Napoleon:

    see this link to back up my comment:

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/10/did-buzz-bissinger-coordinate-his-endorsement-mitt-romney/57705/

  189. 189.

    MCA1

    October 8, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    @McJulie: “I’m still fascinated that Romney supporters aren’t more disturbed that he basically “won” by tossing out every position he’s ever claimed to have, and also claiming that he never had those positions at all.”

    I had dinner with one of these people on Friday, who was still bristling with excitement over Wednesday night. Not only was he not “disturbed” by this, but he refused to believe it could come back to bite Romney even a little, or that it provided any fodder for the President. And why not? Because Romney never actually changed his position on anything, that’s why! He’ll actually pay more in taxes under his own plan! He said it on Meet The Press months ago, or something, and been consistent on all his positions all along.

    I was so flabbergasted, and taken aback by the passion with which this position was put to me, that all I could think to say was “He’s really going to increase his own taxes? What about all that ‘job creator’ stuff, then?”

    I’m considering whether or not to just forward this person the Brookings/Tax Center report from two months ago that not only summarizes Romney’s actual tax policy positions, but points out how, even if you tilt literally everything in it to be as progressive as possible, to retain revenue neutrality requires an effective tax rate increase on everyone outside the top 5% of earners, and would still result in a massive tax cut to the top 1% and .1%. I mostly hesitate because I sense some epistemic closure, and a lot of the “I will do anything in my power to delude myself into thinking voting for all Republicans all the time (a) doesn’t make me complicit in their current craziness, and (b) isn’t about protecting my own financial position” mentality. I can’t change that. This is an intelligent, well-educated and very engaged person. I can’t make him see the light because there’s way too much investment to date in the other tribe.

  190. 190.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    @Dennis:
    Disagree. He’s revealing himself as the anti-John Cole. He has Republican “values” baked into his circuitry and is using the debate as a convenient ex post facto cover. This is Buzz coming out of the closet (“ZOMG, hope the Hollywood elite doesn’t punish me!”). Clearly, that 90 minutes was no Road to Damascus moment for someone experiencing “mild discomfort” over the president. Not given what he has now written.

    I couldn’t give a nickel for what Buzz thinks and considering I know nothing of his work, he can drive off a short pier and make the world a better place. Here’s hoping he doesn’t start spouting about the Constitution, like Mamet.

  191. 191.

    Napoleon

    October 8, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Trollhattan, read my link above. I think that is pretty close to a smoking gun that he had planned to endorce him prior to the debate.

  192. 192.

    catclub

    October 8, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    @MCA1: The guy at washington monthly also says ( and quotes Ezra Klein as well) that Romney did not actually change any positions in the debate.
    The only possible exception was when he talked about regulations favorably. He just lied about what the effects were of his pretend tax plan.

    I would ask your friends: If there is no decrease in taxes for the super rich, AND the tax cuts are revenue neutral, AND taxes on the middle class will not go up, then what IS the point of them? Hasn’t he now claimed all of those characteristics for his plan?

  193. 193.

    liberal

    October 8, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    @Dennis:

    …but feel they need to quickly stomp on a life-long Democrat who thinks Obama hasn’t been anywhere close to what he was billed as, didn’t deliver on his promises and has been phoning it in lately in his presidency and in the most important debate of his life?

    Are you out of you’re f*cking mind?

    I’m very critical of Obama, as other people on this blog might attest. Putting aside the stuff about the debate, which is idiotic (because how is debate performance really relevant to governing ability?), why would anyone consider Obama falling short (as indeed I think he has) and conclude that the right thing to do is move to the right?

    The answer clearly is someone who is either a shill, or not very bright, or both.

    OK, this guy might have been very successful as a writer, but the only alternative to “not all that intelligent, all aspects considered” is “whore”.

  194. 194.

    liberal

    October 8, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    @Dennis:

    He sounds like just as serious a thinker as anyone here…

    LOTFLMAO. Yeah, he’s a serious thinker, just like Paul Ryan is a serious policy wonk.

    The stupid, it burns.

  195. 195.

    liberal

    October 8, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    @Dennis:

    Bissinger has a Pulitzer and several bestsellers, a movie and a successful television show.

    OH MY GOD. HE MUST BE A F*CKING GENIUS.

  196. 196.

    trollhattan

    October 8, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    @Napoleon:
    Pretty compelling, if you ask me.

    The Buzz doth protest too much, methinks .

  197. 197.

    Archon

    October 8, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    This is good for liberals who are “devestated” over Obama’s performance.

    Buzz’s article illustrated clearly that there is no coherent, rational argument for an Obama supporter or anyone that was not already inclined against Obama to vote for Romney.

    All the debate did was allow the people who were gonna vote for Romney once they got into the booth to proudly proclaim it a month before the election.

  198. 198.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    @Dennis:

    That’s what I meant when I said he didn’t switch sides, just candidates this time, because that candidate wanted it more and that debate was the tipping point for him.

    Jesus Fucking Christ. I’ll try to make this even clearer for you: in politics, specifically in electoral presidential politics, switching candidates is switching sides.

    All Bissinger has is his vote, his public endorsement, and maybe his campaign donations and his time. If he’s giving all those to Romney, not to Obama, then he’s switched to Romney’s side; he’s helping to get the Republican candidate elected so that he can put Republican policies in place. That’s called being on Team Republican, no matter what’s in your heart of hearts.

    It would be nonsense if I were to campaign for, donate money and time to, and vote for Obama, but claim that I was somehow on Romney’s “side.” It works the same for Bissinger.

  199. 199.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    @Dennis:

    He sounds like just as serious a thinker as anyone here, as serious as Cole is and was when he changed his mind over several years, and that his decision didn’t come easy and he makes it with reservations

    To steal a line, Bissinger sounds like a stupid person’s idea of what a serious thinker sounds like.

  200. 200.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    @liberal:

    I’m very critical of Obama, as other people on this blog might attest. Putting aside the stuff about the debate, which is idiotic (because how is debate performance really relevant to governing ability?), why would anyone consider Obama falling short (as indeed I think he has) and conclude that the right thing to do is move to the right?

    Bissinger told you why in his article, liberal, because he doesn’t care enough about the job, that he showed he didn’t really want it bad enough to come to that debate prepared and ready to give it the attention it deserved.

    Bob Herbert said essentially the same thing over the weekend.

    No More Excuses

    “There will be more debates. And the election has not been decided by any means. But Obama’s supporters need to make it clear that the time for excuses is over. The president had no right to show up for a debate unprepared and offer an expectant nation an embarrassingly half-hearted performance. Progressive leaders, who represent Obama’s strongest and most faithful supporters, have an obligation to convey that message in the strongest possible terms.

    The president let his people down. And if he’s capable of doing that in an election that is clearly so important, it means he’s capable of doing it again if he wins a second term.”

    Herbert’s not going to vote for Romney, but he realizes a guy who’s been phoning it in lately and did so at that debate, is likely to keep on doing that if re-elected. Bissinger just echoed that sentiment and realized the it wasn’t just one guy not showing up, but the other guy showing he wanted it a lot more.

  201. 201.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    @Dennis:

    He said nothing about becoming a Republican or a conservative.

    If he’s voting for the Republicans, then he’s in effect a Republican. He wants Republicans to win and to enact Republican policies. He wants the Democrat to lose and he does not want Democratic policies enacted.

    What else is there, really, to being a Republican but that? Sure, he may or may not have officially registered as one, but that one piece of paper aside, how is he different from any other Republican voter?

  202. 202.

    Rafer Janders

    October 8, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    @Dennis:

    Bissinger told you why in his article, liberal, because he doesn’t care enough about the job, that he showed he didn’t really want it bad enough to come to that debate prepared and ready to give it the attention it deserved.

    Oh, I see the problem. You’re not that bright, and like Bissinger, you seem to see the presidency as a three-hour football game writ large.

  203. 203.

    Dennis

    October 8, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    @Rafer Janders:

    Jesus Fucking Christ. I’ll try to make this even clearer for you: in politics, specifically in electoral presidential politics, switching candidates is switching sides.

    Rafer, I was comparing Bissinger’s conversion to Cole’s, and the comparison was in regard to the hypocrisy of this blog being populated by long-time liberals who have embraced whole-heartedly someone who converted, lock stock and barrel, and those same people writing on that converted person’s blog in such vitriolic language about someone who makes some valid points about why he’s no longer endorsing the candidate of his party, the party of which he’s NOT leaving and NOT renouncing, because he’s become convinced that that candidate just doesn’t really want the job bad enough to get himself up for a very important debate and perform reasonably well. I’m telling you it’s not only hypocritical, it makes no sense.

  204. 204.

    ruemara

    October 8, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    @Dennis: well, with that, you proved you are a moron.

  205. 205.

    mainmati

    October 8, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    7,000 millionaires last year paid nothing in federal income taxes. So talk about skin in the game.

  206. 206.

    Hob

    October 8, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    @Dennis: Once again… and again: Cole justified his conversion by pointing to Republican policy decisions that he thought were crazy, and he’d been thinking about it for years, while Bissinger made his decision apparently overnight based on nothing more substantial than how a candidate came across in a debate. Others have explained this to you and you summarized the explanation accurately yourself… and then, as if you don’t even read your own damn comments, you continued to go on about how illogical, inexplicable, and hypocritical it is for us to claim that these two things are somehow different. Either you’re trolling or you’re unusually dense.

  207. 207.

    Hob

    October 8, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    Sorry, it’s too late to edit my comment, but I should’ve just deleted it and said: anyone responding to Dennis at this point is just wasting everyone’s time. Dude is trolling, trolling, trolling on the river.

  208. 208.

    Phoebe

    October 8, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    I can’t tell if anyone’s commented on this already, because my control F doesn’t work for some reason. But:

    This combined with his raging Lance Armstrong denial — askin to “nanananaanana I can’t hear you nanananana no fair HERO!” — makes me not want to read Friday Night Lights despite loving the TV show.

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