Soonergrunt and I saw this at about the same time*, but here’s that survivor of adversity Josh Romney commenting on the nature and character of the President of the United States (via TPM):
“I don’t know if you guys saw the debate last week,” Josh Romney said, as the crowd cheered and applauded. “I take a lot of pride in that, because — I don’t know if you noticed, but I was — me and my brothers were responsible for my dad doing so well…
“So as a father, he learned how to debate an obstinate child. We had a lot of fun, we had a lot of fun watching the debate.”
Seriously, once again I find myself in the odd position of wanting to thank a member of the opposing team. Really, Josh, I appreciate this insight, this glimpse inside the real views of Team Romney.
The President of the United States — the one who steered the country through the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, the one who passed the most significant health care reform in two generations, the one who saved the auto industry (in which your own family once took pride, as I recall), the one who steered a very delicate course that ended with the fall of more than one dictator and the transformation of autocratic Arab regimes into something much closer to one their own people recognize as legitimate, the guy who got Bin Laden and all the rest — that great American is to you “an obstinate child.”
Really?
Oh — and I forgot to mention. That president, our president, your president, like it or not, happens to be the first African-American to hold that office, which among many other things means he has to deal with a level of identity pressure unlike anything a born-rich, never-has-to-wonder-about-your-children’s-children’s-material-well-being guy like yourself. And with all of that you’re going to call that man “an obstinate child.” Just a brat arguing with Daddy-knows-best at the dinner table. A servant, perhaps, a member of the lower orders, who should, by rights, know his place?
As I said, the word you are looking for is “boy.” Really, you just said it.
IOW: we approach asymptotically the point at which the entire GOP shouts as one: Ni-CLANG!
Oh. One more thing. Again, thanks Josh. A significant portion of your dad’s polling boost has come from increased enthusiasm on your side, and a depressed drop on ours. Stuff like this makes me and mine take notice, and it only does us good when you stir the pot this way.
Speaking out of snark for just one minute, despite all the evidence to date, Josh Romney’s remark reminds me once again that there is simply no bottom over there — no reservoir of shame nor self awareness that can puncture the single conviction that I can be sure the Romney clan possesses: that theirs is the divine right to rule. Such faith is, of course, singularly disqualifying its possessors from the reward they seek.
Let us make it so.
*Soonergrunt twittered on it first, but I got to Starbucks WiFi before he did, so there!
.Image: Jan Mitjans, Portrait of Maria of Orange with Hendrik van Zuijlestein and a servant, c. 1665
raven
Fuckin little punk.
brettvk
I wish I didn’t hate these people this much, but they keep saying things like this, and it makes me wish painful death on them.
gogol's wife
I can’t watch that clip. These people make me physically ill.
Violet
I don’t think Josh Romney even knows he does stuff like this. If you asked him about it, he’d probably say, “As every parent knows, dealing with kids sharpens your debate skills” or something. Honestly, it’s so ingrained I don’t think they have any clue how it sounds to the rest of us who are aware of racial, class, social, gender differences and our history.
When you’re a rich white man and you grew up in a rich white family, you really don’t have a clue unless you make a point to get one.
Pavonis
The Romney boys have a 100 million dollar trust fund from their father. I do hope they’re doing something extraordinary with their lives using that advantage.
…
Just checked. Except for one doctor the rest are in finance and real estate. Yawn.
Tom Levenson
@brettvk: Not death. No physical harm. Public, deep, irredeemable humiliation — that I’m OK with.
cckids
So, Josh, you had “a lot of fun” watching the debate? Enjoy it,you racist little fuckstick . The rest of us had lots of fun all year watching your dad walk all over his dick trying to act like a human being. Now that you’ve had your little moment on the upside, the real Romney comes back out to play, and Daddy will get his ass handed to him. Thanks for playing, asswipe.
ps, sorry for the swearieness, SPT and my son are bad influences.
gogol's wife
@Pavonis:
They’re helping their father run for president.
And, Violet, I think he knew exactly what he was saying.
eric
@raven: back the fuck off. that little punk, as you so thoughtlessly and demeaningly called him, has done more and risked more for his country than you could ever dream of….my god, he stood arm and arm with Tagg supporting his father’s run for office. that is a level of sacrifice you could only dream about. that is Seal Team 6 shit, right there. so back off. i raise a glass of Bollinger Blanc de Noirs Vieilles Vignes Francaises 1997 in his honor.
Villago Delenda Est
@Pavonis:
No chance.
These fucking cowards supported the worthless illegal, immoral war in Iraq, yet could not find a scrap of honor in their alleged characters to put their own precious asses on the line.
gnomedad
But some libruls said W had Daddy issues, so Both Sides Do It and Not Racist At All.
Comrade Mary
It’s bait. It’s meant to get under Obama’s skin and make him easier to needle at the next debate.
This still makes him a vile little fuck, scion of a family of vile little fucks, but this isn’t a spontaneous expression of his vile fuckitude, but a strategic use of his vile fuckitude.
(Violet, you’re being generous, but he doesn’t deserve your charity. He knows exactly what he’s saying.)
TheMightyTrowel
@gogol’s wife: I’m with you. They may be sheltered and privileged but they’ve been part of a nasty racist campaign for too long to cry innocence and ignorance.
brettvk
@Tom Levenson: I become a worse person when contemplating the people who produce these statements. Thus my despair.
Violet
I wasn’t trying to excuse his behavior. And maybe everyone is right that he knew what he was doing. But this kind of ingrained, casual racism and demeaning of the President are so normal to them that I am not sure they even know they’re doing it.
That doesn’t excuse it–in fact, it makes it worse. If he was being a calculated dick, then, well, maybe he’s just a dick. But if he doesn’t even know he’s being a dick or even what he said unless someone calls him on it (and then he of course denies it), that seems worse.
MikeJ
Doesn’t asymptotically mean it will never be reached? I wouldn’t bet on it. These are people that organize to run their SUVs in their driveways on earth day just to piss off liberals. I can easily imagine them organizing to yell “nigger.”
shortstop
@Violet: All that, absolutely, plus this lagniappe: Why were Mitt and Ann Romney’s kids all such fucking chronic liars growing up?
lamh35
oh, but he only “alluded” to the POTUS as obstinate child, he did directly say Obama was an obstinate child.
That’s just enough distance for the RWNJ and the “liberal” media to dismiss is as just “rhetoric”
Jeez I can’t stand those fuckers.
On other GOP/Can’t stand those fuckers news, Gawd damn u karma for making me feel sad for Sarah freakin’ Palin
‘I’m writing a fitness book!’ Sarah Palin hits back as the row grows over her shocking new skinny figure
The woman looks sick and jeez, I really hate that I’m saying this, but she really does look like she needs help. In some of the pictures, she literally looks like a before and after pic of someone on meth!
I sincerely hope someone has her ear and is telling her something’s wrong.
Lie to me, say Republicans
“The potato salad is fine. Go ahead and have some.”
raven
@eric: I never thought of it that way. I actually had some French bread in the Mekong Delta when daddy was having some in Pareeee. My mistake.
shortstop
@lamh35: Similarly, Jack Welch never typed the words “White House” in his infamous tweet. Jesus, these people are all thoroughgoing weasels. No normal person goes through life expecting this stuff to fly.
RareSanity
@Tom Levenson:
I’ll settle for an electorial defeat and the joy of having that little wanker stands there and watch his dear ole Dad deliver his concession speech.
raven
@RareSanity: Whatup bro???
shortstop
@RareSanity: It’s not enough! I want the whole fortune squandered on the hopeless dream of a Mitt presidency! I want those five obstinate children crying over getting no inheritance because Daddy was bored and wanted a big new toy!
different-church-lady
I’ma say two things here:
1) Tactically I ain’t gonna discourage anyone from making hay out of this.
2) Realistically, it’s quite a stretch. I don’t at all think Josh Romney meant a direct comparison, and that is in spite of my extreme disdain for that entire spoiled brat clan. At worst it’s foot in mouth. It’s not event horizon.
nepat
Righteous.
Violet
@lamh35: She really does look ill. And she’s dressing more and more like a working girl. She looks ridiculous for someone almost 50.
RareSanity
@raven:
What’s up Raven?
I sure hated being right about The Ole Ball Coach. That was just ugly.
Lie to me, say Republicans
“Oh definitely! Seat belts are for losers.”
Villago Delenda Est
@lamh35:
Palin’s another one of these uncoachable wretches who frankly do not deserve so much as a picogram of our attention.
raven
@RareSanity: An ass whippin for the ages. And Carolina hangs 40+ on the Hokies in 3 quarters! I actually bailed after the 3d SC score and went back to the commitment ceremony!
RareSanity
@shortstop:
Yeah, but it’s not going to happen, however deserving they are for such a fate.
I’m going to set my expectations on something that is actually possible so I can actually enjoy the moment.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@RareSanity:
Compounded by the knowledge that they blew on those dogwhistles until they turned blue in the face, and it still didn’t work. Folks this is what it looks like when the GOP’s Southern Strategy hits a wall at 75 mph and the airbag doesn’t deploy because they cut it up to make more sheets with eyeholes.
shortstop
@different-church-lady: Well, can we agree on this? Mitt’s bitchin’ debate stylists put that “I had five boys, I know when people are lying to me” thing into his sophist lineup for the very purpose of making the president seem like a child, not the competent and in-control leader of the free world.
You can leave the racial implications in or out of that; me, I’m leaving them in because there’s quite a long and wide American history of white people comparing black adults to children. But even if you leave race out, the allusion to president-as-child is there.
Now Josh just happens to say it again. It ain’t accidental twice in one week; it’s now a theme.
Comrade Mary
@different-church-lady: Gotta disagree: it was deliberate, right down to the buildup where he crowed about the way he and his brothers helped his father in the debate. They were obstinate children: Mitt trained against them, then went up against — what? a constitutional lawyer? an accomplished writer? the President of the United states? Nope: just another obstinate child.
Anyway, this is reaching the expected levels of blue anger and red delight, if any of y’all care to Google josh romney obstinate.
Bait. And is noticing the bait and discussing it as bait the same as taking the bait? Maybe.
shortstop
@RareSanity: Okely dokely. But Ima keep it in my wank bank.
RareSanity
@raven:
You chose wisely.
gnomedad
@lamh35:
Holy shit! She looks like she’s turning into Lindsay Lohan going through attention withdrawal.
Lie to me, say Republicans
“Go ahead, drink up! I promise to drive you home later.”
shortstop
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
That’s some solid work right there. Very nice.
SatanicPanic
@shortstop: It is a theme. It was uncomfortable when Romney said it, but I thought he was just being a prick. Now it’s looking like it’s something they actually sat down and discussed. I never thought anyone would run a nastier campaign than Bush in 2004, but Romney has done it.
raven
@RareSanity: I dvr’d it and was able to wallow in full agony without commercials.
RareSanity
@shortstop:
No law against that.
The wank bank is designed for those purposes exactly.LOL
Darkrose
@brettvk: Yeah, I keep trying to tell myself that it’s bad karma to wish harm on someone, but it’s increasingly difficult not to with these disgusting dickmuffins.
Comrade Mary
@shortstop: Co-signed. Even if this wasn’t planned as part of the debate — and I think it’s plausible that it was, but I won’t insist on it — they are playing on it now because it works with the butthurt felt by those who have been collectively scolding Obama.
They want to work and work and work the themes of incompetence, weakness, even childishness, versus Big Daddy Romney, who raised his little liars right.
Unless anyone here has a TARDIS and a bow tie, this would be a good time to stop freaking out, stop shitting on Obama and deal with this vile little fucks.
Arm The Homeless
OT: Anyone want to wager a guess on whether Halo 4 coming out the same day as voting will have any measurable effect on turnout in certain target demographics?
Lie to me, say Republicans
“It’s not that high. Go ahead and jump down.”
Maude
@Violet:
She’s not ill. She has deliberately lost the wight. She also looks like she had breast implants ala Dolly Parton.
wrb
@shortstop:
To be observant.
“Lying for the Lord” is good, I gather, according to their theology.
Seriously, I’ve wondered if this is why Mitt can lie so shamelessly without tell that people who judge with their guts can pick up.
Most people have a sense that lying is bad and feel conflicted when they do it.
If you were raised to think it good and holy if it furthers the cause, you would be free of conflict.
RareSanity
@raven:
If he loses the cocktail party, the seat in his F150 is going to start feeling pretty warm.
Shakespeare
Just pointing out that the context for Tagg/Track/Tick/Tank’s remarks was Romney saying at the debate that he raised five sons so he knows all about debating liars.
So they’re both racist fucks. And homophobic and sexist for good measure. Mormons, after all.
Amir Khalid
@Maude:
Dolly Parton has breast implants? Say it ain’t so!
shortstop
@wrb: Aren’t wingers always accusing Mooslims of this?
Seriously, can you point me to some Mormon teaching that actually condones lying for the cause? This is the first time I’ve heard this theory.
trollhattan
@Maude:
Mother’s little helper?
Maybe she’s trying out for “The Nutcracker”?
shortstop
@Amir Khalid: Breathe deeply. I believe those are real, not store-boughten.
raven
@RareSanity: The natives are awfully restless already. Punk messin with Arron’s house need to be lynched.
Mary G
Ugh. We have got to make sure these people are defeated. All my emails these days are from the Obama/Biden campaign plus about 10 senate candidates I’ve donated to. I am going to make calls to swing state voters from home, since I am physically and financially limited in what I can do.
Joel
You know what? Fuck these guys. Don’t care what they have to say, because they have nothing. I’m feeling good about this thing again. Let’s win this motherfucker so that the Romneys can go the way of the Palins that preceded them.
Violet
@Maude: She could be anorexic or bulimic. She’s definitely got psychological issues, so that sort of response to her waning popularity wouldn’t surprise me.
raven
@Joel: Nah, they have dough and will either way.
Maude
@Amir Khalid:
I was saddened when I learned that Dolly indeed had falsies.
Our front pager bragged about beating a deathly ill Sooner to wifi. I knew there was a reason I liked Tom.
To add, Sarah is exercising and she loses weight in some places. She is very strong. She is carrying stuff and her stride is powerful.
SteveinSC
Speaking of running dog whistles in reverse, it seems to me that the Obama team should be running ads in the old confederacy and its newly acquired territories, that Romney has thrown them under the bus by ripping off his cloak to reveal “Moderate Man” the long-thought-extinct type of Republican. He is now in favor of all those things he shortly ago swore in
Moroni’slittle Jesus’ name that he despised while wearing his disguise of “Seriously Conservative” macho man. They better check his stance on abortion, affordable health care, taxing the rich, equal pay for women. Mein Gott the list is endless! They better not trust this tricky Mormon! He’s selling you out you mindless redneck fucks!shortstop
@raven: But no one has ever said “No,” “I’m afraid you can’t have that,” or “Hey, fuck you” to them before…not in 40 or 50 years, anyway. The psychological damage this will do to them–the embarrassment and bewilderment and rage it will engender–will be worlds beyond the disappointment normal people feel when we don’t get something we want.
Mmmmmm, I get kind of excited just thinking of their extreme mental distress.
raven
@shortstop: One of them will just pick up the mantle and run.
Yutsano
@shortstop: Dolly as usual is coy about it. However she has been making breast jokes since she was poor and relatively inknown.
Midnight Marauder
@shortstop:
Bingo. You have got to be immensely naive or ignorant not to realize what is transpiring here. It’s some of the most disrespectful shit in the world. And what makes it all even more infuriating is just how casually such racist utterances are accepted by the Traditional Media.
I can’t wait until The Village burns.
shortstop
@Yutsano: Nothing in this world is genuine. NOTHING!
different-church-lady
@shortstop:
OK, I find the combined effect of the two instances more persuasive.
Maybe I need to see and hear this stuff with my own eyes and ears to hear the dog whistles.
SatanicPanic
@SteveinSC: THIS. Everytime I troll on wingnuts I like to throw out- “yeah, he won the debate, by going back to his old RINO self. How do you like that?” I don’t imagine it matters all that much, but I like throwing it in their face.
Paul
@wrb:
It is so screwed up. Their prophet endorsed the attack on Iraq. Funny stuff for a church that claims it is Christian. Compare that to the Pope who spoke against it.
LanceThruster
@raven:
That’s about as nice a way as I could think to say it.
What a bloody douche-nozzle.
I’ve pretty much nothing but foul expletives for the entire clan.
shortstop
@raven: As what? The hedge fund-managing son of the universally unlikable and unmarketable Mitt Romney? Go for it, Romney children. Hope you make it to the first primary.
the Conster
@lamh35:
Is this good news for John McCain? Because this is who he chose to be put in charge of the country in his absence. Holy fucking shit.
lamh35
@Comrade Mary: like I said in the Romney thread over at Coates place, the Liberal/Dem/Sully/whatever “freakout” was par for the course (although I suspect the RW would be more likely and quickly to back their guy up. But us Dems are more moral folk the the right I guess) so meh on that…but the adopting of so much of the RW critic of Obama (too “arrogant” or “lazy” to prep) by not just Sully, but a few Obama “partisan” that I respected pisses me off more than anything. yes the debate wasn’t Obama’s shining moment, but adopting RW tropes ain’t the way to make any argument in my book. And I don’t believe that any Obama partisan/supporter would ever be okay with anyone putting the performance or critic of Obama in those terms. But from the comments I’ve read here and elsewhere, it would seem that even some of Obama supporters are quick to run through those tropes when Obama falls short. It’s kind of telling in a way.
This Obama as obstinate child trope in right up in there with the laziness and arrogance trope that not just the right, but certain Obama “supporters” have dealt in since the debates.
wrb
@shortstop:
You can google “lying for the lord” and find plenty.
I once read a lengthy history of it but don’t remember where. If I recall correctly, it is rooted in early deflections of accusations of polygamy, and tied to the changeability of the faith- that for example, suddenly the teachings about black people are no more.
A couple of the first that come up.
mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord
exmormon.org/lying.htm
“
Paul
@Villago Delenda Est:
Don’t forget the cost of the war. These cheap, selfish, dishonest people started their dumb war, yet never had any intention of paying for it. And now you have Romney wanting a $5 trillion tax cut on top of that.
shortstop
@wrb: Fascinating, and total news to me. Thanks.
scav
@shortstop: Doesn’t speak well to the parenting skills of either Mitte or Annetoinette, that’s for sure. Dynasty of rude, clueless nasty twits. Will add pleasure to watch them all endure reality at some point.
raven
Anyone want to sign a petition to remove this cretin Broun from the Science and Technology Committee?
redshirt
Damn! Palin is going full reality TV star. I blogged about this a few weeks back, but now wish I had waited for these new pics. Wow – ever closer to the day when the Presidency is determined in a “Dancing with Idols” type show.
mk3872
And yet, still, Romney leads and is likely to win in November.
Calouste
@lamh35:
She looks like the female Keith Richards.
trollhattan
@mk3872:
Taco?
muddy
@Calouste: Perfect!
Joseph Nobles
@Shakespeare: And Mitt Romney at the debate very definitely did not call them his five sons when lumping the President with them as children. He called them “my five boys.”
MikeBoyScout
Don’t bitch.
Don’t moan.
Get Out The Vote!
Gekko/Galt is the anvil
We are the HAMMER!
Hammer it home
Maude
@trollhattan:
I think Palin graduated from nutcracker to coconuts. It is all your fault that I said that, btw.
lamh35
so romney new strategy is to completely ignore what he said past 18 months with a little help from the media.
trollhattan
@Maude:
Fine! [stomps off to clean keyboard]
Narcissus
I think the word they’re looking for is “shiftless”
JWL
Tom L: One question, posed with genuine regard for your political acumen.
If Romney does prevail in November, what next for the democratic party?
Maude
Ryan came out with a real wingding about inner city. About “character” and discipline. We all know the drill. They are really building the racist bs up to a higher level that I’ve seen since the likes of Strom Thurmond.
What gets me is that the lousy media isn’t calling them out on this.
When Sununu said his lazy and all that remarks, the media just pretty much ignored it.
Someone should ask Romney if he’s going for repealing the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
El Cid
Spoiled rich kid douchebag has spoiled rich douchebag kids.
Tom Levenson
@JWL: How the heck should I know? I’m just a guy with an internet connection (and 54 years of living in America, and 36 years of volunteering for Democrats beginning with the Good Father: Robert Drinan). We have a very strong bench — Hilary at the top I would say. We will still have the Senate, I’m pretty sure (crossing fingers). The House will be at least a bit closer, which always makes things interesting. And we know that the GOP is a party of opposition, not governance, so they’ll f**k it up in predictable ways.
The rub is that the we face real, major problems that actually need things done, which the GOPsters won’t do, and the affirmative actions they may very well take will, based on the evidence we have to date (Bush 43, most obviously) make our difficulties worse.
At the same time, the rolling coup-under-the-guise-of-law that’s been ongoing since Bush v. Gore (if not before) will gain further advantage from a Romney White House and Romney DOJ.
All of which is to say that I think our concerns should be larger than what happens to the Democrats if Romney wins; it’s what happens to the country, and to the principle that government for, of and by the people should prevail in the land.
This really could be for all the marbles, folks.
Violet
@JWL: Mass suicide.
quannlace
God, the sense of entitlement that exudes from that whole family, it’s not a waft, it’s a stench.
Yutsano
@trollhattan: Emoprog.
redshirt
Oh Democrats. Months of domination disappear in a debate in which the Repuke lied his ass off. Le sigh…
Violet
Sullivan is now calling the President vain and that he doesn’t “deign” to make a case for his presidency.
Watching the meltdown is kind of fun. If you haven’t seen these two Twitter feeds mocking Sullivan, check them out:
twitter.com/SullyPanic
twitter.com/sullydishpanics
MomSense
Dolly Parton had much bigger breasts back in the day but as you get older they just fall. She had a breast reduction and then a breast lift. I have always loved Dolly and I think she discussed it pretty openly at the time.
Maude
@MomSense:
She never hurt anyone and isn’t a liar. I remember when she was first on tv. She had what it takes to make it.
JPL
@Tom Levenson: Your answer is correct. It’s not the party it’s the country.
Ben Franklin
@Tom Levenson:
This really could be for all the marbles, folks.
As a cautionary tale, see Cameron and the UK.
Comrade Mary
@Ben Franklin: Also Harper and Canada.
Soylent Green
Sarah Palin is a runner, and she works hard to stay in shape. She looks damn good for her age. How she looks has nothing to do with what she thinks.
Eric U.
@JWL: we survived Bush the lesser, we would survive Romney too. Probably be a lot less of us, and we’d all be living in the woods. The only redeeming feature of this distopian future is that the phrase “eat the rich” would be literal. Don’t think they can get a rich person’s paradise up in orbit fast enough to escape us.
Sammy
Wonder if Josh is the one who took Mitt’s illegial notes from Mitt after Mitt couldn’t get them into his right or left pocket?
Mitt Romney, His Family And Cheating
austinisafecker.wordpress.com/
Mitt hands the cheating papers over to his son.
austinisafecker.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/rtp61.jpg?w=640&h=384
MomSense
You know the only reason people are freaking out about the debate is because the mostly white pundits all told/screeched/yelled at us that Romney won.
And they had been building this meme for about a week before it even took place.
I guess we all are supposed to just accept the criteria–aggressive, fast talking, saying things forcefully, looking straight at the President, etc.
I thought his aggressive, fast talking style was bizarre-like someone on speed. He was even red faced and sweaty and a bit rambling. He was rude, interrupted, and lied a lot. My son was texting with his girlfriend during the debate. Her conservative roommate thought he looked creepy. Many of my former students said the same thing about the weird expression on his face while he looked at the President. One said that she didn’t know if he wanted to kiss the President or his Depends were leaking.
To me it seems like we are upset only if we buy into the narrative the media created for us. Go back and watch it. I didn’t see the President as looking lethargic. He looked taken aback to me. I felt stunned as well when I heard Romney do a 180 on the central policy proposal of his campaign-across the board 20% tax cuts.
And I am sooooo glad the President did not bring up the 47% line. If you saw Romney on Hannity, he had prepared his best “sincere” face and a thoroughly rehearsed and line tested response. That would have done much more damage. For me, I think the President made the right choice tactically. He avoided the big pitfalls. I told everyone that I expected the first debate to go Romney solely based on the history of Presidents and first debates. They are not used to being interrupted, having limited time, etc.
Just ask Mondale, Kerry, Carter (in’80) whether winning the first debate matters.
Violet
@Soylent Green: Sarah Palin tells us she’s a runner. It’s up to us to decide whether to believe that.
She did look very good when she was chosen for VP. Since then she’s aged tremendously. She’s also had some work done and it seems to have done more harm than good.
Her weight loss is relatively recent and makes her look thin and ill. Maybe she meant to lose the weight but it’s not flattering.
redshirt
@Violet: Shallow as hell, I know, but I think she looks smokin’ now, more so than before. Still hate her, mind you – no starburstz.
TheMightyTrowel
@Yutsano: Just saw your comment on dead thread below….
Tell your friend welcome to the arse end of the planet! I’m in the ACT so really in the middle of nowhere, but I seem not to have gone through the culture shock this time (too much work). My partner is moving here next month so I’m bracing myself for his version.
Culture shock is no fun, but you pull out of it eventually. alcohol and chocolate help.
MomSense
@Maude
I’m a huge Dolly Parton fan even though I’m not a huge country music fan.
She is a tremendous songwriter, a smart business woman, and such an funny person.
When Bob Edwards left NPR he played his favorite interviews and his interview with Dolly was his all time favorite.
One of her quotes was “It takes a lot of money to look this trashy”. I just love her! I used to watch her weekly show. We are dating ourselves now!
MikeJ
@Violet:
Same thing happened with Alton Brown when he lost some weight. Right after he lost it he looked gaunt. He got back to more normal looking without being visibly heavier. He did not, to the best of my knowledge, start wearing stripper heels.
Bubblegum Tate
@lamh35:
Jebus. She’s gone full-on Real Housewife.
gravie
I’ll be doing get-out-the-vote canvassing the next two weekends in my neighboring state of Virginia. I can hardly wait.
Hill Dweller
The media was going to push the Willard won line regardless of the actual debate outcome, but the Matthews, Sullivan and Schultz reactions gave the rest of sociopathic careerists in the Village cover to hammer Obama, and give them the horse race they wanted all along.
Maude
@MomSense:
She was on someone’s show before she had her own. Her voice was so lovely.
She’s real.
Violet
@redshirt:
Seriously? You think she looks good here? dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2215207/Im-writing-fitness-book-Sarah-Palin-hits-row-grows-shocking-new…
I think she looks like a hot mess.
schrodinger's cat
Andrew Sullivan just called Obama lazy on his blog, he was goofing off according to the hardworking pot smoking blogger.
Violet
@schrodinger’s cat: The hardworking pot smoking blogger who takes two weeks off at a time, multiple times per year, not bothering to check in while he’s gone.
gwangung
Hm. A young man who was born rich comparing a guy who fought his way from lower class to upper class to a child.
Nah, not gonna make me angry. It’s just a total failure of an argument.
McJulie
@MomSense:
So true. They are amplifying any Romney positives beyond reason — hyping them just as much as they will go. A disappointing draw/arguable loss becomes a clear and obvious loss becomes an epic smashing becomes Romney (apparently) winning the presidency in a single 90-minute blitzkrieg of lies.
The freakouts that are really bothering me are the ones of the Obama tried to lose/Obama seemed disinterested/Obama didn’t prepare variety. That’s not critiquing a disappointing performance on one day — that’s attacking his motives and character. I just can’t believe that anyone who would do that was ever on our side to begin with.
Tom Levenson
@schrodinger’s cat: Saw that. Sully had been creeping back into my “worth a look” file.
Now?
Hey: I agree with him that Obama really screwed up. But a single bad evening is not sufficient to decide that one of the most legislatively ambitious and successful Presidents of recent memory is lazy failure. I really don’t have any patience any more for Sullivan’s daddy issues. Just don’t.
schrodinger's cat
@Violet: That post of his made me really mad. Turncoat.
lamh35
did Dems learn nothing from expectations game last time Biden will do fine, but fine=bad w/such high expectation. I see from my twitter timeline, that Ed Schultz and Tweety have all laid out what Biden better do on Thursday and the expectation that Biden wraps Romney’s lies around Ryan’s neck and all I see is a bunch of pundits on our side once again waging an expectations game that no way will Biden win. Ryan wins by default of standing up to Biden. mark my words, Biden will be fine, but the after debate punditry will of course be “not enough” on Biden’s part.
I’d be interested in seeing what Rachel & Lawrence add to the expectations game.
redshirt
@Violet: Sadly, yes. She looks pretty hot. Like a B actress or washed up pop star. Not as a former VP candidate!
El Cid
I like to read Andrew Sullivan because out of the hundreds of thousands of writers throughout history and on blogs he is so, so, so fucking amazing that I just can’t stay away, he’s like some sort of fucking new Conrad, my God, apart from his entire oevre of shitty reasoning and stupid, ass-backwards pompous panicked right wing treason-accusing psuedo-arguments his prose is just so fucking amazing that I just have to keep going there and reading and reading and reading because out of the thousands of people who write around the world there’s just no one else in his league.
schrodinger's cat
@Tom Levenson: I must have seen a different debate than you and the Pundits. Romney came across as a bullying liar, smiling creepily all the time.
ETA: I do think that explaining economics, which was the focus of the debate, is not Obama’s strongest suit.
Ben Franklin
I really don’t have any patience any more for Sullivan’s daddy issues. Just don’t.
Getting more visceral with each take-down.
Higgs Boson's Mate
On the positive side, the little shite just torpedoed any possibility of a political career of his own while putting one square on daddy’s waterline.
MikeJ
@El Cid:
What are they gonna say? That he was a kind man? That he was a wise man? That he had plans, man? That he had wisdom? Bullshit, man!
Svensker
@El Cid:
Eggzackly. I just get so gobsmacked by him that it’s almost like high level meditation, the brain pulses a few times then clears. It’s better than a couple of double shots of espresso in the morning.
kay
@Violet:
It’s about him. He said Obama was like his hero, Reagan, so now he thinks the debate reflects poorly on HIM, Andrew Sullivan. Me, me, me. That’s all I hear when he talks.
We have a magistrate here who was a Reagan delegate. He’s completely rational about Ronald Reagan. Can discuss him, good points, failures. It’s wild to listen to. He didn’t get the GOP memo.
James E. Powell
@MikeJ:
And am I gonna be the one that’s gonna set them straight? Look at me! Look at me! Wrong! [points at John Cole] You!
FlipYrWhig
@MomSense:
Yup. A bunch of shouty testosterone-fueled pundits started shouting in a testosterone-fueled way that the president wasn’t shouty or testosterone-fueled enough for their liking. The whole thing is circular, and we’ve seen it plenty of times before: the entire “Village” is obsessed with machismo, which they pretend is just their own knowledge of what Regular Guys Think but is basically themselves using imaginary Regular Guys for ventriloquism about their own psychosexual hangups.
To what degree do people other than blowhards (to which add, for Sullivan’s sake, bears) give a shit about any of these things? Only to the degree to which we all have been soaking in a culture that treats Alpha Male dominance displays as evidence of political leadership. Which, of course, we all have been.
But, for fuck’s sake, it’s getting really fucking old, and it’s soul-deadening to see a whole new generation of pro-am pundits in the blogosphere reenact all the same stupid shit: body language, hesitation, aggression, what not-very-masculine schlubs like Josh Marshall and Markos Moulitsas sometimes call “bitch slap” tactics… Dear God, borrow a copy of _Fifty Shades of Gray_ and jack it while the rest of us try to make and watch politics happen.
El Cid
@Svensker: I wish I could say that in the dozens of US and European papers each day and hundreds of blogs someone, just someone, could write with the the almost super-human prose skills of Andrew Sullivan, but, they just can’t.
I mean, I’ve searched and searched, but I just have to keep going back.
It’s true that so many of the arguments he makes are awful, even frightfully bad, but every now and then, he makes an argument I agree with, and he does so in that style which makes me imagine all sorts of Cambridge prestige, so I just melt, and I just keep going back, because no one else is worth reading man, just, no one.
FlipYrWhig
@Ben Franklin: It’s not daddy issues, it’s masculinity issues. Quelle surprise.
schrodinger's cat
@FlipYrWhig: To me Romney came across like was auditioning for a Fox News gig
MomSense
@FlipYrWhig
Too funny! And Andrew says he is a supporter but he is the one sabotaging the President. This debate would be looong forgotten if he weren’t obsessing and catastrophizing incessantly.
TexasMango
I’ve been avoiding cable news, but I’ll guess none of them have even mentioned this.
I guess it really is OK to call a black president a boy.
And fuck anybody on left who is adopting GOP terms to describe Obama.
kay
@TexasMango:
I noticed it at the debate. Normal people don’t open with “my 5 boys lie constantly, and that makes them like my opponent”
It’s a bizarre thing to say. It’s a way to equate boys and Obama.
Of course no pundit said anything. The world ends if they mention it. The screeching from the Right would be unbearable. Then we’d have another fake-debate about “race in America” so at least we were spared that.
Mnemosyne
@MomSense:
Had to fix, because I really think it’s primarily a white male thing. As I was saying at the time, the only people impressed by Romney’s performance were white guys, because there’s something about that hyperactive “alpha male” shit that makes a lot of white dudes want to roll over and expose their bellies.
Romney’s problem, of course, is that he already had the white male vote locked up. What he needed to do was convince women and minorities that they should vote for him, because the days of being able to win the presidency with the white male vote have been over for decades.
I am a middle-aged white woman, and Romney’s performance made me think he was trying to sell me a lifetime supply of Sham-WOWs!
brettvk
@Maude: Porter Wagoner. I remember my first glimpse of Dolly on a B&W teevee when I was a child, on the Porter Wagoner show (they later had a rather painful professional breakup, IIRC). She actually wore a gingham dress, topped with those spectacular breasts, and I think they even put her hair in pigtails. Sometimes an image just sticks in your mind for the rest of your life.
Jay in Oregon
@redshirt:
To be fair, she should never have been anywhere near the national stage.
John McCain can FOAD for inflicting her and her shallow, mean family on the country.
Gian
Mitt raised 5 liars.
that was my take away
apples not far from tree
amk
Joy Reid tweet
Nice. And true.
wrb
@Mnemosyne:
Is this true?
I’m a male who is genuinely puzzled by the reported movement of undecided females to the Romney side after the debate.
Anyone have a theory?
Violet
@wrb: Theory: Suburban white women, who frequently vote Republican, who are scared by the freaky Republicans they see all the time were reassured by the NuMitt they saw at the debate. He didn’t seem like he was going to take away their birth control! He seems like their husband/dad! Vote Mitt!
kay
@amk:
We have a lawyer here who is a new volunteer. First time ever. She’s a good lawyer and we’re lucky to have her. She’ll do voter protection on election day. She’s been following the endless freak out on cable TV and she said “are they always like that?” I told her “Yes. Always”
I’m afraid they’re scaring her away . She’s been a “Democratic activist” for about 48 hours and she already hates us :)
YellowJournalism
I just can’t stop thinking about this. Would we have ever seen W’s daughters going around calling Gore or Kerry “obstinate children” after a debate? (Lame attempts at humor or poking fun at them, yes.) Palin and her snotty daughters I could maybe see it from (although the daughters may have left it as having practice arguing), and McCain came close with “that one.” It’s like it’s slowly getting worse. If he was able to run for a third term, I think his opponent might show up to a debate in a white hood, whirling a noose around the stage.
Todd
@JWL:
I either go all-in on being a full wingnut in order to preserve my station in life, or I start donating money to the new version of the Weathermen in order to help them acquire nitro fertilizer and the addresses of the homes, offices, country clubs and favorite resorts/nightclubs of the wealthy and their spawn.
amk
@kay: No wonder the kenyan muslin sezI don’t watch cable noise. We are gonna need smart lawyers like her this election pretty seriously. Way to turn them off.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne
I thought I did write mostly white male pundits! Thank you for writing what I meant to say. I’ve been a bit hazy the last few days.
Kane
It caught my ear when Romney said it in the debate, and I’m surprised that others haven’t picked up on it.
Mnemosyne
@wrb:
“Undecided female” is already “woman who doesn’t want to have to vote for the black guy,” so IMO any signs that Romney could speak without drooling on himself would probably sway them.
I’m not at all surprised that right-leaning men (and right–leaning women) were swayed by Romney’s performance. What did shock me was how many supposedly left-leaning white men freaked out about it and were convinced that Obama had lost the election on the spot. WTF?
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: OK, this is wholly speculative and even more petty of me to say, but, honestly, I think that a huge number of liberal pundits were nerds and dorks their whole lives, and they’ve ended up with a sort of arrested development. They always wish they had had the guts to fight back when it counted, so now they’re totally stuck on the idea that the politicians they support have to fight back and not get picked on. Then, with a different origin story, there are the blue-collar and blue-collar-by-proxy guys like Chris Matthews and Ed Schultz who _also_ crave rough and tumble politics rather than wussy bleeding hearts and flower power. So these freakouts are all about the overlapping neuroses of white liberal men and their craving for projections of toughness. As they were when it came to the debt ceiling, or health care, or any political issue where the big gripe is that Obama didn’t fight hard enough.
Spatula
So now “obstinate child = n****r.
Really?
Well, if you say so.
Joseph Nobles
@Spatula: Dense doesn’t really become you, but I can’t control your life choices.
It’s the infantilization of a grown man, Spatula, especially when the two Romney quotes are seen together. The history of African-American men being demeaned by being called “boy” is something I didn’t think anyone could actually deny. But then again, that appears to be why God invented the Internet.
The Klown
This place is funnier than The Onion.
Comrade Mary
@Joseph Nobles: Three Romney quotes. Ann is riding that horse, too.
Maude
@brettvk:
That was it. Her hair, when I saw her, was not as puffy and she was in demure clothing. Thanks.
I know I’m late, but I had to go to bed early last night.
Rome Again
@Violet:
As someone who grew up in a household with the same types of attitudes (although a lot less money, but still enough to be considered very successful), I can assure you they DO know what they are saying and they don’t care if you call them on it. They will not have any compunction to cease repeatedly using demeaning language about those who don’t measure up to their standards. I saw this firsthand in my own family, hence the reason why I no longer talk to any of those people. Racism and derision for those who live lives of ‘less importance’ give these people delight. Calling them on it will solve absolutely nothing. They don’t believe what they are saying is wrong at all.