Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

I really should read my own blog.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2012 / Post-Debate Open Thread

Post-Debate Open Thread

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Well, that felt good, didn’t it?

Many thanks to Joe Patrice for his most instructive liveblogging, and I for one hope he’ll be willing to join us for the remaining Presidential debates as well.

On a personal note, while I didn’t get my fondest wish to see Uncle Joe give Lyin’ Ryan a noogie onstage, from his facial expressions I suspect Ryan feels like that happened!

Reader Interactions

277Comments

  1. 1.

    RedKitten

    That was just too damned much fun, for both me AND for Joe. Seriously. I don’t think Ryan could be more pissed off if Joe came to his house and shit in his clothes dryer.

  2. 2.

    Comrade Jake

    Biden literally did not say “literally” once, thus ruining my entire plan to get blitzed during the debate.

  3. 3.

    Jeff Spender

    I don’t give a flying frak what the media says, that was AWESOME.

    It’s good to support people who know what they’re talking about. I don’t want to lose, but there is some comfort in knowing that if we do, we went down fighting and on the right side of history.

  4. 4.

    YoohooCthulhu

    Anyone else notice that Ryan gives off that funny “earnest undergrad” vibe? I’m 30 and I feel like he’s younger than me when I watch him on TV.

  5. 5.

    freelancer

    Anyone else bust into outright laughter when the camera cut from the splitscreen to full shot of Ryan as he prepared to give his plastic inauthentic closing statement?

    I know I did.

  7. 7.

    kvenlander

    Joe Effing Big Deal Biden is in the house! I am going to hit the donate button tonight until it bleeds.

  8. 8.

    Gian

    I remember how in 2004 Cheney was asked immediately with the first question about the massive intelligence failure that was 9/11
    like how Biden was tossed the libya question.

    right?

  11. 11.

    Yutsano

    I’m sorry I missed it. But I got an unexpected field trip, pizza for lunch, and now I got an attorney trying to snowjob me. This could get fun…

  12. 12.

    smith

    Ryan is probably ticked off. He probably thought he was going to get questions on his running marathons and his bitchin’ Six Pack.

  13. 13.

    trollhattan

    This may win the internets on a very competitive night.

    tbogg Joe Biden is currently en route to Andrew Sullivan’s house to softly rock him to sleep.

  14. 14.

    eohippus

    Apparently the Republican post-debate spin is that Biden was “rude.” Tuned into the live feed long enough to hear some butthurt teatard Senator whining about it.

  15. 15.

    martha

    Thanks so much to everyone, especially DougJ and mistermix for setting up the Coveritlive…I have used it for other events and it worked really well…so glad it worked here.

  18. 18.

    mai naem

    I love Joe Biden and I hope the President spent some time watching Joe kick Lyin’ Ryan around over and over and over….

  20. 20.

    Keith

    Thanks, Joe! I believed in you (unlike Chait, who has fallen into groupthink, apparently forgetting that Biden has debated plenty of times and has been a Senate committee chairmen for YEARS)

    EDIT: BTW, I loved that Biden would talk over Paul and (usually) get him to stop talking. Showed who was alpha, and that makes a difference.

  21. 21.

    YellowJournalism

    Rience Preiebus is coming off looking like Ellis from Die Hard as he tries to attack Biden on his laughs and interrupting rather than answer the question of why Ryan could not go into details of his tax plan.

  22. 22.

    gelfling545

    I actually cast concern for my blood pressure aside & watched some of the debate after being tempted by the blogging. I don’t care what any idiot in the media has to say. This is pure, outright win and I wouldn’t have had the VP do a single thing differently.

  23. 23.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I was doing a lot of multi tasking and a bit of channel surfing, but I’m a bit surprised people are saying Ryan won on Benghazi. I think it remains far too complicated for their talking points.

    Also, I would’ve loved to see Biden rip into Romney just for the sheer demagoguery of the title “No Apologies”, especially when Ryan started mewling about how Willard worked with democrats, didn’t demonize, didn’t demagogue… 70% of his campaign has been racially-tinged talk radio demagoguery. But that’s my high-information voter pony, I guess

    And CNN is a self-parody of a cowering pseudo-news organization trapped in early 2005.

  25. 25.

    Original Lee

    Except for the first question, it was fun. Who wants to bet Issa blew the CIA’s cover on purpose today? I’m glad Biden had enough self-restraint not to divulge state secrets. I’m sure it was hard for Biden to answer that question without doing actual physical violence to Ryan’s guff.

  28. 28.

    weaselone

    Biden exposed Ryan’s reputation as a wonk as a complete fraud. Naturally, the media is overwhelmingly spinning it as a closely fought tie with Biden coming off too aggressive at times. The irony, she is thick. They’ve been fluffing Romney’s aggressive debate performance nonstop, but Biden essentially pulls off the same debate with more facts and less lies and it’s a draw and he’s too aggressive.

  30. 30.

    Spaghetti Lee

    I’m hoping this does for Obama what, say, seeing Larry Bird sink 20 straight jumpers would do for Michael Jordan: time to bring your A-Game.

  32. 32.

    Comrade Jake

    Biden crushed him on Afghanistan, IMO. Who are you going to trust? The guy whose kid served in Iraq who knows what he’s talking about or the guy who’s actually just a kid who crammed for the FP quiz?

  33. 33.

    gnomedad

    Read somewhere before the debate that the right is gonna dump on Martha Raddatz and I fully expect this. She was awesome.

  34. 34.

    smintheus

    Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. Ryan sounded vacuous and he was repeating lame Faux talking points he couldn’t back up whenever he was pressed on them. His worst point was when he paused for more than 5 seconds when asked whether women should worry about a Romney administration outlawing abortion…and then answered, basically, yes they should. But he made so many unforced errors, and was completely unable to respond to Biden’s mauling, that it was delicious to behold. Empty suit Ryan.

  35. 35.

    Robin G.

    Joe Patrice, when you talked about brinks and solvency and flow I had to light a cigarette. Policy debate forever.

  36. 36.

    lamh35

    I posted a few threads back an article by Dave Weigel on how Biden is underestimated at the GOP’s peril. He went back and looked at Biden’s debate performances since he’s been in da game and Biden’s debate performances were/are stellar.

  37. 37.

    donnah

    Fantastic. Old Handsome Joe outdid himself. Ryan looked like a teenager trying to outsmart a professor, and he came off badly.

    I’m hoarse from yelling at the TV and lawdy, the swears! I’m going to hell for sure.

  38. 38.

    BGinCHI

    This would have been better:

    tbogg: Joe Biden is currently en route to Andrew Sullivan’s house to softly rock him to sleep smother him with the collected works of Henry James stuffed into a vintage pillow.

  39. 39.

    mb

    RE: noogie

    On Afghanistan, he ripped his head off and shoved it up his ass. Kind of made the noogie moot.

  40. 40.

    digitals3rf

    Lest we get too giddy–will this actually move the polls at all? I doubt it.

    OK, a little bit giddy–FUCK YEAH JOE BIDEN!!!! He took an “Onion” and smashed it the FUCK into the smug git Ryan’s puss!

    Now Barack, unleash some of that inner Angry Black Man. Really, the people want you to!

  41. 41.

    dmsilev

    Quite a contrast in closing statements. Ryan was reading talking points off a teleprompter (OK, probably not really, but it sure as hell looked like it), and Biden was actually speaking sincerely.

  42. 42.

    ChrisNYC

    So satisfying. And, I have to say, I’m really happy that JB did so great and kicked ass with the perfect tone, in this high profile way. The MSM will talk about the smiling and laughing but Biden can so get away with that shit because he just vibes nice guy. The sort of “oh gaffe machine” bit is really old and really wrong with him. Glad he’s got this big showy win, after lots of years. Judging by his (very low, for a longtime Senator) net worth, he’s a real public servant and not in it for the cash. Good for him. Couldn’t be more pleased.

  44. 44.

    Dave

    @lamh35: They really are. Everyone seems to forget that Biden came up with one of the great all-time lines in reference to Rudy Guiliani in 2008: “Noun, verb and 9/11”.

    The man knows how to bring it in a debate.

  45. 45.

    OGLiberal

    Halptin gave Ryan a B and Biden a B-. He was scoring from McCain tire swing. Blitzes called it a push. Can we all shut up about te liberal fucking media.

  46. 46.

    lamh35

    ‏@danabrams
    Not surprised Rt @cbsnews INSTANT POLL of Undecided Voters: Who won #VPdebate? BIDEN: 50% RYAN: 31% TIE: 19% #vpdebates

  48. 48.

    Comrade Jake

    I’ll take “gaffe-prone” Biden any day of the week and twice on Sundays. His bit about Ryan writing him letters was perfect. Biden treated Ryan with the contempt he deserves.

  49. 49.

    PsiFighter37

    Biden won, no doubt. I have no pit-in-the-stomach like I did during the Denver debacle. Biden absolutely smacked, crushed, and WWE-style slammed Ryan into the fucking canvas.

    I’ll sleep well tonight. And then I’ll wake up tomorrow and read whatever Nate Silver is concern-trolling about.

  53. 53.

    hamletta

    I loves me some Joe Biden. He could be one of my uncles.

    My mom was a Hillary supporter in 2008, and she was a little shaky on the whole Obama thing, but his choosing Joe sold her.

    It was good that he wasn’t fighting a gurrrl, so he could let loose. He laughed at that punk like he needed to be laughed at.

    Joe may be a GOB, but he’s fucking brilliant. When he looked into the camera and addressed the olds like this PX90WTF douche is gonna take away their heart medication, he was golden.

  55. 55.

    LanceThruster

    I tried watching but tuned out at the first question. It is painful to see Romney/Ryan posturing on foreign policy mistakes as if they could be trusted not to step on their peckers with track shoes in most every case. These are the same folks who were asked by the family of the Navy Seal(?) killed to stop using their dead son for their own political aims.

    I’ll get filled in on whatever had merit from the post analysis.

    Thanks to the rest of you for sticking it out.

  56. 56.

    mai naem

    I cannot fvcking believe that Ryan mentioned JFK. Seriously, who the fvck was prepping him? JFK. Dan Quayle. Does nobody in the Ryan prep team watch teevee?

  58. 58.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    FYWP ate my comment
    could someone who’s on the twitter remind Mikey Scherer of “date rape”?

    michaelscherer ‏@michaelscherer
    A baby, a bathtub :) RT @GroverNorquist: Watching Biden smirk reminds us where incivility comes from in DC.
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

  59. 59.

    YellowJournalism

    I missed that jab about Sarah Palin over panels. Joe Biden can chuckle all he fucking wants when shit like that is brought up again.

    They are going to bitch about Biden being rude and about the supposedly unfair moderator, but they can’t get Biden on the substance of what he says. CNN asked an undecided who won. She bitched about Biden’s attitude, but she admitted that Ryan had no details and didn’t answer questions.

  61. 61.

    Betsy

    As Mark Kleiman said at the end of his debate live blog tonight,

    “Well, that should stop the bleeding, anyway.”

  62. 62.

    Soonergrunt

    CBS flash poll:
    Who won
    Biden 50%
    Ryan 30%

    Mark Halperin
    Biden B-
    Ryan B

    So, same as it ever was.

    CNN poll
    I don’t have numbers yet

    The Wingnuts are crowing about a CNBC poll, but CNBC hasn’t put a poll in the field.

    UPDATE–It’s a web poll on the CNBC homepage. And those are ALWAYS trustworthy!

  63. 63.

    Bobby Thomson

    @weaselone:

    Naturally, the media is overwhelmingly spinning it as a closely fought tie with Biden coming off too aggressive at times. The irony, she is thick. They’ve been fluffing Romney’s aggressive debate performance nonstop, but Biden essentially pulls off the same debate with more facts and less lies and it’s a draw and he’s too aggressive.

    Well, Ryan isn’t near.

  68. 68.

    Political Observer

    HALPERIN’S TAKE:

    Ryan B

    Biden B-

    CNN FOCUS GROUP:

    Says it’s a draw.

    Sorry, Dems. Romney’s momentum continues! Biden smirked, sighed, rolled his eyes, and was way too dismissive. Ryan looked calm, cool, collected, and Presidential.

    The CNN SNAP POLL soon to come!

    Literally folks. Literally.

  69. 69.

    max

    @YoohooCthulhu: Anyone else notice that Ryan gives off that funny “earnest undergrad” vibe?

    Heh. I think you give him too much credit. To repeat myself from the liveblog, the guy has this really irritating high squeak in his voice that I associate with upper-class wanna be frat boys from high school. The kind of guy that would screw his hot girlfriend and then dump her for being a ‘slut’. So yeah.

    I didn’t realize DougJ was liveblogging on the blog, so I didn’t see him call Ryan a douche. So as I said in the other liveblog, those two are douchebag central, the platonic ideal douchebags of douchebaggery, even if, or especially if the word has gone out of style.

    I think Joe did great! A *tactical* draw (and that’s the best Ryan got) is a strategic win, since the R feint to their left has ground to a halt and they’re going to have to switch back to their main attack – the main attack from their right.

    max
    [‘We got ’em.’]

  73. 73.

    dmsilev

    THe Onion has their post-debate story up:

    “Listen, I know I’m the last person in the world to give you all a lecture on morality,” said Biden pacing the tabletop as the auditorium lights laid bare every world-weary crease and crevice in his 69-year-old face. “I’ve sure as shit made my fair share of mistakes. I’ve ridden through some pretty dicey places in my Trans-Am, had one or two run-ins with the law, and spent more than a few nights in county. I’ve done things…terrible things. I’ve got a list of regrets a mile wide, and there are nights when those regrets frankly tear me up inside. Just tear me right up.”
    __
    “But despite all this, I still have my dignity,” Biden added. “And nobody can take that away from me, no matter what. It’s what keeps me human. It’s what keeps me alive.”

  75. 75.

    Betsy

    Jose’s expressions for the entire first half of the debate were a wholly well-founded series of looks that said “Young man, you surprise and dismay me with you insensibility and puppyism.”

    But I’ll bet you an apple the pundits will never shut up for the next three or four days, at least, about how Joe’s facial expressions “lost” him the debate — when any normal human can see what a complete puppy Ryan is, and contemptible his “ideas ” are.

  77. 77.

    Linda Featheringill

    I enjoyed the debate. My daughter set me up with a split screen so I could watch the debate and the live blogging at the same time. Cool.

    Thank you, Daughter Unit. You’re brilliant!

  80. 80.

    trollhattan

    @mai naem:
    He was about two, at least developmentally, so it didn’t register I’m guessing. The car wreck opening was equally gobsmacking. WTF?!

  83. 83.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Halperin is a fucking douche. also, too,

    Nick Confessore ‏@nickconfessore
    MT @justinwolfers: The six studies that Paul Ryan was citing in defense of his tax plan? 4 are blog posts or op-eds. (via @jbarro)
    Retweeted by Charles P. Pierce
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

  85. 85.

    Jay

    I really, really wish Biden had hit Ryan on the congressman’s “rape is just another method of conception” comment or that Obama and/or Biden brings it up soon. Reference when Ryan said it. Name the interviewer. Ryan’s comment attributes an ordinariness to rape that the act certainly doesn’t deserve, so Ryan’s remark is soft – on – crime and just plain stupid.

    Sweet Jeebus, does anyone who reads this blog have a serious line to the Obama campaign? Ryan would’ve been blown offstage by a Biden attack on that, and this race would change yet again.

  88. 88.

    RaflW

    My BF and I laughed our butts off when Biden said “Oh, you’re Jack Kennedy now?” in total surprise, while Ryan was speaking. Off the cuff, rude in a delightful way, because Joe literally couldn’t believe this punk was gonna reference Kennedy.

    The single best moment of the night.

  89. 89.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Joe knocked it out of the fucking park tonight. Twenty five minutes in to it my wife laughed out loud and said “The debate is over! Damn, and I popped lots of popcorn for it.” Although Biden clubbed Screech like a baby seal, it was glorious to watch.

    It was like watching a teenager debate an adult, no fucking contest.

  91. 91.

    blingee

    Post debate analysis by CNN and the other talking heads re-affirms my suspicion that they have their fingers on the scale. Many calling it a tie or very narrow victory for Biden. That is just horseshit.

    Obama didn’t lose the debate. At least not by much. It was the media that created that.

  94. 94.

    Liberty60

    @sb:

    Mark Halperin said Ryan looked presidential?

    Of the Waukeegan Dungeons and Dragons Gamer club? Sure, ok.

  95. 95.

    jurassicpork

    Just gone done live-tweeting the debate (@jurassicpork59). I hope my followers appreciated my doing that. I’m 53 and haven’t gone for 90 minutes without peeing since 1999. Essentially, Ryan looked as if he was getting prison shower raped by the Cheshire Cat. Considering what Biden did to him, he might as well have spent Gay Pride in Provincetown or the Castro and he would’ve had more fun. Poor Karl Rove’s Twitter feed literally stank of bile, quaaludes and Jack Daniels. I’ll post the better tweets tomorrow. I’m wiped.

    In the meantime, if you folks could help make our Halloween a little less terrifying than it already is, we’d sure appreciate it.

  97. 97.

    Political Observer

    Verdict. A TIE says #Focusgroup. 32% for @JoeBiden . 32% for @RepPaulRyan. 35% no winner. #cnndebates ” – @ErinBurnett

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    someone mentioned a CNBC poll…?

    @ ezraklein: Ridiculous that @ cnbc is tweeting the results of an online poll as if it’s a real poll. Worse that journalists are retweeting

  102. 102.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    When right-wing trolls are insisting that it was a tie, that’s when you can be sure that Biden trounced him.

  103. 103.

    burnspbesq

    @Yutsano:

    and now I got an attorney trying to snowjob me. This could get fun…

    If I recall, the stock answer in situations like that is “Tell it to Appeals at the CDP hearing.”

  105. 105.

    TexasMango

    Also note to liberals and Democrats: GOPers will not contribute to any drop in morale by beating up on Paul Ryan and increase any damage already done.

  106. 106.

    Keith G

    Game theory issues:

    Which strategy will each side decide on for the next round? Even though its a town hall which tends to tamp down stridency, I think tonight may compel Romney to repeat last week. What option will the President work on? How much of his traditional style will he feel the need to revamp?

  107. 107.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Reince Preibus zings!

    “I don’t know who his debate partner was,” Priebus said Thursday night, in the CNN spin room. “Maybe it was Ed Schultz from MSNBC, I’m not sure.”

    Now that’s effective! I’d bet more right-wingers than liberals know who Ed Schultz is, much less indies.

  110. 110.

    Comrade Luke

    It’s been kinda funny reading everything, without having watched the debate. Dems are super happy, Republicans seems bored and are calling it a draw, and everyone’s upset with the media.

    One of my friends on Facebook posted: And I thought moderators in debates were supposed to be impartial…

    I’m guessing Biden won, and the moderator didn’t take any shit from Ryan. I’m sure the moderator will be the story tomorrow.

  111. 111.

    Baud

    @Anya:

    Agree. I was more disappointed by the Dems than by Obama. I’ve really come to appreciate the BJ regulars here, however.

  112. 112.

    JenJen

    CNN snap poll Ryan 48, Biden 44. CBS snap poll Biden 50, Ryan 31, 19 undecided.

    CBS viewers apparently watched the same debate that I did.

  113. 113.

    ChrisNYC

    Oh Marsha Blackburn with the fear of God in her eyes and just flat rambling. I have never seen her unable to lie and smile with ease. That plus the cooked Mason-Dixon poll out of FL today makes me think there is real fear in the GOP.

  114. 114.

    RinaX

    @Anya:

    Yup. The fact that most of the pundits on “our” side are still complaining about it says all you need to know about why Dems end up losing so much. Apparently some of the msnbc crew are actually on the “Joe was too mean” bandwaggon.

  115. 115.

    Hill Dweller

    The actual debates weren’t all that different(VP debate a bit more entertaining), but the media is working hard for the Romney ticket after this debate.

  119. 119.

    shortstop

    Well, well, well. I can think of a certain smarmy punk* who’s not going to sleep well tonight.

    *I’m only a few years older than he, but I can’t stop thinking of him this way.

  121. 121.

    Triassic Sands

    Full disclosure: I despise Biden. He will always be the Senator from MBNA to me. His claim to having worked tirelessly for the middle class is a GOP level fantasy — no one worked harder for the big banks than Joe did as a senator.

    That said, I thought he did a very good job in this debate — he managed to be assertive without making any absurd statements. I listened to the debate on the radio and anyone who has listened to and then watched the same debate (that order makes a difference — visual impressions are often impossible to shake, once they’re made) knows how different the two experiences are.

    I thought Ryan did a good job — for someone saddled with a campaign and ideology based on lies, wishful thinking, and pure fantasy.

    My guess would be that wingers will think Ryan won and lefties will think Biden came out ahead.

    Factual correction for Joe: no, Joe, you don’t always say exactly what you mean or mean exactly what you say, which has always been your problem in the past (and not tonight). You have routinely said things that leave people shaking their heads. Tonight, I think Joe said what he meant and meant what he said. Well done.

    Will this debate make a difference in the overall race? Doubtful. Ryan did well enough to get by. And it’s hard to imagine Biden succeeding in making up the ground that was lost in the first presidential debate. That was an impossible task for a VP candidate. Obama should thank Joe for doing so well.

  122. 122.

    hilts

    Gloria Borger: would have appreciated less chuckling and eye rolling from Biden

    David Gergen: On substance, debate was a draw. On style, Ryan won because he came across as more presidential

    Katy Kay: Biden’s demeanor was condescending and patronizing

  125. 125.

    cckids

    @hamletta:

    It was good that he wasn’t fighting a gurrrl, so he could let loose. He laughed at that punk like he needed to be laughed at.

    I’m laughing at Ryan as hard as anyone, but think over the debate & imagine Sarah Palin doing even as well as Ryan did tonight? She’d have been curled up in the fetal position, or have stormed out. Christ knows she could have barely participated.

  127. 127.

    Kadzimiel

    I do think that Joe Biden has a promising future career in bukkake, judging by the way he slapped Lil’ Paulie around tonight. Seemed to enjoy it too.

  128. 128.

    smith

    @JenJen:

    CNN wants to be FOX so bad, it’s pathetic. CNN is such an empty shell of an organization. I can’t even call them news anymore.

  132. 132.

    SatanicPanic

    I stand by my earlier statement that debates are dumb, but it was nice to see the creepy Paul Ryan put in his place. Where do they find these people? What a fucking weirdo that guy is. Eeeccch, having watched that one this computer, I feel like my computer is dirty now.

  134. 134.

    Political Observer

    CNN *SNAP* POLL:

    Ryan 48
    Biden 44

    BIDEN HAS LOST! BIDEN HAS LOST!

    Biden has lost the debate!

  136. 136.

    JWR

    CBS did a snap poll of “undecided voters” and Biden was up 15 to 20 percentage points in every category, which of course meant that it was a tie. Oy.

  137. 137.

    Can't Be Bothered

    Joe just kicked Ryan’ nutsack through his goddamn teeth. Fuck the pundits. Fuck the whatever. He just got killed. He connected. He articulated. He domninated. He had the motherfucking FACTS. FACTS. Remember that shit? The fucking facts. He did exactly what he had to do. Fire up the fucking base. Fired up. Ready to fucking go. Fuck that Ed Munster looking fuck. Fucking dipshit. Fuck Romney, we’re winning this motherfucker. You CANNOT have our country you dipshitted dimwits. YOU CANNOT HAVE OUR FUCKING COUNTRY. WE AREWINNING THIS MOTHERFUCKER.

  140. 140.

    LanceThruster

    Full disclosure: I despise Biden. He will always be the Senator from MBNA to me. His claim to having worked tirelessly for the middle class is a GOP level fantasy—no one worked harder for the big banks than Joe did as a senator.

    I don’t know enough about the details to hang that around Biden’s neck but it is definitely the first thing I think of when I think of Deleware.

  143. 143.

    batgirl

    I think the best response to Ryan’s “I want elected officials not unelected judges to decide abortion” is that I don’t want elected officials OR unelected judges,I want to let WOMEN decide as individuals. They are the ones that can make the best decision for themselves, thank you very much!

  146. 146.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Can’t Be Bothered: Obama was off his game last week, but trying to say that Biden lost this debate…? we’ve seen this movie before, Gergen, Borger and Halperin will be stunned to find over the next few days that voters think Biden won. And as much as I love Al Gore, he was trying to play a part. With Biden, I really think what we see is what he’s got.

  147. 147.

    Culture of Truth

    Fucking great. FOX complaining that Biden was rude.

    Can I translate? That mean Biden beat his ass.

  148. 148.

    Birthmarker

    I said this already somewhere tonight, but if tonight only keeps up interest so that many tune into the next two prez debates, Biden did his job. Now it’s on O.

    I was surprised at how many on my FB newsfeed were following along. Repubs pretty ticked, dems pretty happy.

  150. 150.

    Can't Be Bothered

    @LanceThruster:

    Fuck both of you fucking trolls. Go back to dickdickistan. Seriously. In case I wasn’t clear. FUCK OFF TROLLS. You’re not compromising my high right now.

  152. 152.

    RaflW

    I’m not super into moderator/process issues, but Atrios makes a good point:

    raddack was decent, but questions were almost all coming from center-right DC CW frame. she wasn’t an idiot, but she came from that place

    Others on the Twitbox pointed out both last week and this, how narrow the range of issues has been. Really just Medicare/SS, deficits, taxes, and the middle east + Afghanistan.

    Nothing about education. Energy. Environment. Health care other than bullshit about things Obamacare won’t actually do.

    We’re very narrowly served by Villagers. Their interests are not middle class interests, since Villagers are all climbers/rich.

  153. 153.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @batgirl: am I wrong in thinking abortion and the courts are gonna become a bigger and bigger issue? I’ve been waiting for that since 2004.

    Immigration, as others have mentioned, not discussed. Nor the environment, which I guess doesn’t have the traction it should.

  156. 156.

    pattonbt

    Souns like Biden did pretty good and Ryan did better than expected but not as good as Biden, so Biden on points. A bit surprised to see Ryan not getting the appropriate village tongue bath for just showing up and not tripping all over himself.

    But even with a Biden win, still wont the needle much. VP debates never do. But the Kleiman comment about stopping the bleeding should be about right.

    Guesstimate on my part, things settle back to a narrow Obama lead in the national polls, O still with his solid leads in the key swing states, and the Village creaming over itself over the next five days for the Poltical Rumble In The Jungle of the second debate. Ali – Fraiser will be NOTHING compared to the hype for the next debate by the Village. You can feel the Christmas eve, anticipation, childish giddy-ness in their demeanor.

  158. 158.

    mai naem

    @Baud: I hardly ever watch CNN but I watched it sometime ago(I think during the healthcare debate) and they had an live audience/focus group and almost all of them were white southerners. CNN is in fvcking Atlanta. Apparently its very difficult to find blacks in Atlanta.

  159. 159.

    mk3872

    Biden did his job. It’s now up to the POTUS to deliver on Tuesday night and move this thing back in our direction.

  160. 160.

    BlueDWarrior

    @pattonbt: This sounds pretty good to me. The Edwards/Cheney debate didn’t move the polls, but it did arrest the Democratic moementum. I expect something similar to filter out here, so I suspect Obama +2 in the Gallup tracking by time next Mon rolls around.

  162. 162.

    MTiffany

    As bad as Paul Ryan is feeling right now, he can at least take comfort knowing that Mark Halperin and Joe Scarborough will always be there to suck his dick. Although “always” is only until November 7th.

  163. 163.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @RaflW:

    raddack was decent, but questions were almost all coming from center-right DC CW frame. she wasn’t an idiot, but she came from that place

    When she framed the question as “what’s wrong with raising the eligibility age?”, I about fell off my chair. For the three people on stage? Nothing. Ask a few miners, 60 year old waitresses, elementary school teachers, carpenters…. The frame Atrios speaks of is as much class based as political, which I know is almost redundant, but not quite. It needs to be pointed out, a lot.

  166. 166.

    Can't Be Bothered

    @Elias:

    My cue was “oh shit… Biden just fucked up Ryan… oooohhhh shit.” Which means, yes, I’ve been drinking whiskey. Ryan. Just. Got. Fucking. Killed. Don’t believe the CNN poll of Southern Dipshits. He curbstomped that smarmy little fuck. KIIIIIILLLLED.

  167. 167.

    shortstop

    @RaflW: Absolutely true, but the emphasis on foreign policy served Biden well and exposed Ryan’s severe unreadiness for prime time. If the Village is going to be narrow (and it is), I’m glad it was in an area that worked for our guy tonight.

    Those free weights will get a PUNISHIN’ tomorrow morning from a very frustrated Screech.

  168. 168.

    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)

    CNBC SNAP POLL:

    Biden 51
    Ryan 44

    RYAN LOSES! HE LOSES! RYAN LOSES THE DEBATE!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  170. 170.

    MikeBoyScout

    As I am at least as low as 161 on this thread, I understand that most will never read this, but…

    For my comrades (yeah, I said that) on BJ, ESPECIALLY JOHN COLE, it is time to get off of our blogging asses and get out and knock doors, make phone calls and GOTV!

    It was never about the debates and is ALWAYS about our activism.

    Gekko/Galt is the anvil
    We are the HAMMER!

    Get out there on the streets, and hammer it home

  172. 172.

    Hill Dweller

    @pattonbt: I don’t know if, or how much, it will move the needle, but Joe’s performance is going to pump some much needed energy into our side. There has been way too much pouting in the last seven days.

  175. 175.

    LanceThruster

    @Can’t Be Bothered:

    Oh swoon! I’ve got troll status! (and CAPS!)

    Listen, CBB. I responded sincerely. If I was going to trash Biden on what I do know, it would be for pandering to the Lobby. But then that covers most of Congress. Romney/Ryan would be asking Bibi where to send our troops and the latest check for Israel.

    As much as I wince over corporate parties of either stripe, I’m of the belief that Romney/Ryan would be a reprise of the Bush admin nightmare, only with more ideological certainty (discarded as the wind blows to appease the puppetmasters)..

    There is a world of difference between the Democrats and the Rethugs despite whatever dissatisfaction I might have with other policy aspects so I’ll be casting my vote without holding my nose, but rather with enthusiasm that dodging a Romney/Ryan bullet is a good thing for the coubntry and the rest of the planet.

  179. 179.

    Culture of Truth

    Much as Quayle may have deserved it, I thought Bentsen’s slam was a rehearsed cheap shot. This was genius.

    I always thought so too. But agree on Biden genius.

  180. 180.

    Soonergrunt

    Halperin, the same guy who said that John McCain not knowing how many houses he owned was good news for him and that he (McCain) was definitely going to win the country?
    Really?

  184. 184.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Chuck Todd, from the hack room, calling it for Biden based on spinners’ reactions.

  185. 185.

    MTiffany

    I’m almost tempted to watch Charlie Rose tonight — with any luck Bobo will be damned near a fatal cerebral aneurysm; or if not lethal, at least very, very painful.

    Watching Chuck Todd with Rachel. Poor Chuck, he’s even a douche when dealing with reality.

    And now Tweety. This should be fun.

  189. 189.

    max

    @mai naem: I hardly ever watch CNN but I watched it sometime ago(I think during the healthcare debate) and they had an live audience/focus group and almost all of them were white southerners. CNN is in fvcking Atlanta. Apparently its very difficult to find blacks in Atlanta.

    Yeah, well, back in the day Ted Turner was a liberal, albeit a weird. Now he’s dead and they’re reverting to type. The type is the ‘Southern moderate newspaper’ wherein no awkward facts are reported, everything is tested against what Southern UMC whites thing, and any liberals allowed in are the ones who volunteer to be punching bags. They like that tight, constrained, ‘respectable’ debates where right-wingers can lie and left-wingers get dinged for everything.

    To be fair, the NYT leans in the other direction, but the NYT (and the liberal types) won’t fudge facts the way the Southern papers and TV do. The DC village is very much from the Southern newspaper mold, even if the rest of the metropolitan area is Acelaland.

    When the Villages gets attacked for being too liberal, they mean too liberal for people who believe the Civil War was unfair and slavery was good.

    max
    [‘Bout time people gave up on CNN’s charade.’]

  193. 193.

    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)

    @PsiFighter37: I was throwing a bit of shit back in the face of Political Observer, knucklehead. Look at his post #123. Then read mine again.

  195. 195.

    Suffern ACE

    @RaflW: Agreed. Especially since Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security and Taxes are really just all the same deficit question to them. This isn’t “how do you live when you are old” or “what happens if you get sick”.

  196. 196.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @max:

    Now he’s dead

    Eh? I don’t think so, and he’s publicly lamented the decline of CNN. But other htan that, I like your take.

    I can’t remember the name of the Aspen Institute stalwart who took over around the time of the AOL merger (remember when that was the most geniusest business move ever?), but IIRC he was the guy who turned the ship toward Fox-Lite. But he was three or four head honchos ago, ratings are still plummenting, they’ve tried fired Blitzer, hiring Glen Beck, hiring the future/now Mrs Dan Señor to directly take on Rachel Maddow, and hiring Erin “Those Wall St Fellas Do Their Darndest” Burnett, and they keep flailing. I think Anderson Cooper may be their strongest ratings guy, and he’s Village Lite more than Fox Lite, I think, so they hired Blitzer back. Genius!

  197. 197.

    MTiffany

    I do hope Vice President Biden flosses very well tonight — all that P90X nonsense probably left Ryan very stringy.

  198. 198.

    West of the Rockies (formerly Frank W.)

    You know, I’ve misread stuff, too. I take back the “knucklehead”. We’re on the same side. Obama/Biden ’12!

  199. 199.

    GregB

    The GOP Ministry of Inflammation at Drudge has sent out the bat signal for the post debate marching orders.

    They will plan to turn Joe Biden’s smile into Al Gore’s sigh.

    Now get out there and sell it.

  200. 200.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @PsiFighter37: You’re too kind. He sounds like a nerd in dire need of a stroke. A massive disabling stroke that traps what passes for a consciousness inside his own putrescent gray matter. Let him marinate in his own shitheadedness while machines keep his vital functions going for another 10 years or so.

  201. 201.

    Suffern ACE

    @MTiffany: Nah. Don’t bother. John Dickerson was on talking about Ryan’s brilliant but poorly executed arguments, then making those arguments more succinctly for ryan and declaring a tie.

  203. 203.

    Paul

    @Political Observer:

    You are quoting Mark Halperin? Really? The idiot who called the President of the United States a d***. You might as well quote FoxNews. That would at least be more credible.

  207. 207.

    GregB

    Paul Ryan wants Todd Akin to handle the issues of women’s health care and contraception.

    Please someone get an ad up pronto.

  208. 208.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    The thing is, Ryan was supposed to lend policy gravitas to Romney, remember, and in the first time with the lens really focused on him he seemed small and tinny, and had every argument attacked (and demolished, in my opinion and many others) as silly posturing.

    They’re fighting over the scraps of leaving him with any dignity and he didn’t lose and so on, but fewer are going to go around trumpeting him bringing serious policy chops to Romney.

  210. 210.

    pattonbt

    @Hill Dweller: Agreed with that. And that is important. Hence why I think the previous Romney bump will abate and O will go back to the lead but not as high as previously.

    But its good for our side to feel good.

  211. 211.

    melior

    Haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but one of my favorite LOLs of the night was the way Ryan almost choked on his water when Raddatz asked him whether “No Apologies” extended to urinating on dead Taliban and burning korans. Excellent prepared question on her part.

  212. 212.

    celticdragonchick

    @Political Observer:

    You need to stop wiping your goo off on your dirty socks and throwing them in the laundry for the maid to find. She doesn’t like it and she is complaining again. I don’t blame her. If you have to gratify yourself after your orgasmic blog posts, please use the bathroom and find some toilet paper. It doesn’t cost much and also doesn’t prompt the help to give notice and find new employment.

    Just a tip, dearie. You can go back to your room now, run along.

  213. 213.

    PurpleGirl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The person to ask is a 55+ year old who was laid off and hasn’t been able to find a job in a couple of years. How will they be expected to work to 70 if they don’t have a job now?

  214. 214.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @GregB:

    Paul Ryan wants Todd Akin to handle the issues of women’s health care and contraception.

    Clicking around a few Villager recaps (Joe Klein, Time kid, Sullivan’s round up, TPM (I consider Josh Marshall Village-leaning)– no mention of abortion. I’m kinda baffled.

  215. 215.

    Joel

    Judging from my social media feeds (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) and the blogs, this was a big win for Biden. His mission was to rally the democrats and their leaners into becoming enthusiastic about the election again. And it seems like mission. fucking. accomplished.

  218. 218.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @PurpleGirl: and at 55, Romney Ryan want to cut them out of Medicare.

    Tweety and his Vilagers talking about abortion. It may just be this is where teh Village goes to look for drama and gotcha.

  220. 220.

    guachi

    Not surprised by the pundit reaction and the close CNN poll. Said in the live blog that I thought Ryan would be declared winner.

    My wife (not at all a Democrat) didn’t like Biden being a meanie. Same tut-tutting we are getting from many pundits who aren’t on MSNBC.

  222. 222.

    YellowJournalism

    Dear Republican Talkingheads:

    The reason the moderator pressed Ryan for details more often than she did from Biden is that Ryan refused to give any.

    Sincerely,
    Anyone With a Clue

  224. 224.

    SatanicPanic

    @guachi: Wait, so the pundits are upset about someone being pushy and talking over the other guy. Huh, not what they said last week.

  226. 226.

    FormerSwingVoter

    I absolutely love The Onion’s post-debate wrap-up:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/eloquent-biden-brings-entire-audience-to-tears-in,29887/?ref=auto

    “We’ve been through some crazy times, me and Barry,” said Biden, taking a quick swig from a flask he pulled from the inside pocket of his leather jacket. “He’s caught me on his roof doing some stuff I probably shouldn’t have been doing. Stuff I’m not proud of, despite how cocky I might act. But you know what? I trust him. And he trusts me. I don’t want to make some big political speech up here, but I will tell you right now that Barry’s the guy to lead us. He’s a good fuckin’ man. What’s more, he’s my dear friend. And I love him.”

  227. 227.

    Unsympathetic

    How can teabilly Republicans be quoting a news media poll as proof that Ryan won the debate? I thought their new stance was that polls don’t sample appropriately.

    Or perhaps that’s just slang for “anytime we lose, we invent alternative realities where numbers aren’t real”

  228. 228.

    Joel

    @guachi: This goes back to the pollster who said, paraphrasing:

    “When I publish a poll that Republicans don’t like, they want to kill me. When I publish a poll that Democrats don’t like, they want to kill themselves”.

    People’s actions speak louder than words, and so, applying that template, you can say that Republicans didn’t like tonight’s debate… not. one. bit. Us democrats needed that.

  232. 232.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @freelancer (iPhone): and why is that professional and partisan Republican paired with a journalist, albeit an opinion journalist? MSNBC has been doing this more and more the last couple weeks.

  234. 234.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @Joel:

    you can say that Republicans didn’t like tonight’s debate… not. one. bit.

    …so they turned the knife on us, smiling all the while!

  235. 235.

    guachi

    half as much WTF looks from Biden and no one would be complaining about Biden kicking butt. However… it’s Joe Biden AND he’s the VP (so it’s kind of expected, right?) AND Ryan had nothing so I think the next 4-5 days will actually be a net positive.

    I do think, thought, that taking the House is not happening. It was always a long shot and basically needed October to mimic September.

    Still, stops the bleeding. Fires up Democrats. Gives Obama clues on exactly what to say. Fire. Passion. Maybe more from Obama defending his record so it looks more “presidential”

  238. 238.

    Palli

    @MTiffany: People like Ryan don’t feel badly about doing poorly- they have some kind of magical thinking self-identity that exclaims their superiority. Proclaiming victimhood is part of that, of course.

  239. 239.

    Triassic Sands

    @Comrade Jake:

    His use of the word literally was so ridiculous at the convention that I desperately hoped he wouldn’t utter it a single time tonight. Thanks, Joe, you literally did a good job tonight.

  241. 241.

    DPS

    @guachi:

    I think the worst outcome for us tonight would have been to leave the impression that Biden didn’t fight, because that was the killer with the first debate. That’s not an issue now. If some people thought he was overaggressive or impatient, that’s OK. Mitt was obviously a dick in his debate, but it was a big plus for him in the end. Now we need Barack to give the impression of being willing to stand up to Romney. That’s all we need. Then it’s over.

  242. 242.

    Fat Mort Jellyroll

    Is it just me or can anyone else see Biden actually doing the things The Onion says he does and love him all the more for it?

  243. 243.

    RadioOne

    I’ll just say the “oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy” line was great, and leave it to the rest of you to determine the winner of this debate.

  244. 244.

    Chris

    @RadioOne:

    Heh. Memo to Republican vice presidential candidates: for the love of Zeus, stop trying to make Jack Kennedy happen. Jack Kennedy is not going to happen. Stick to Reagan. It works for you.

  245. 245.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @DPS: Plus if Biden were nice and polite then it would be all about how he “didn’t seem to want to be there” and all the rest of it, so you really can’t win with places like CNN or whatever. Not as a Democrat anyway.

  246. 246.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Chris: I can’t even believe that Ryan walked into that one. Biden didn’t even have to spell it out, Lloyd Bentson got to smack down a preening Republican again in absentia, just by the association being raised.

  247. 247.

    pseudonymous in nc

    Looks like the DC harlots want to call this a tie (or jump on Biden) to set up a narrative where Obama has to shit on Rmoney himself. Perhaps they’re pissed off that Raddatz — who, as a foreign correspondent, has mostly kept herself away from that circlejerk — did a good job.

  250. 250.

    Suffern ACE

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Nope. The president didn’t smile. Had he smiled when he wasn’t talking, it would have been called an arrogant smirk. Biden smiled, so it was a smirk. Had he not smiled, it would have been throwing the election my hair is on fire.

  251. 251.

    guachi

    Ahh… a town hall debate!!! I almost forgot. Obama can hopefully use his megawatt smile that seems so genuine!

    He can talk to voters this time. Not at Romney. Not staring down at a comatose Lehrer. My hopes have been buoyed now.

  252. 252.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Chris: I think Quayle would have just as soon that they won without him enduring that particular history book-level humiliation, but you may be right. Though I sort of doubt it.

  254. 254.

    trollhattan

    @Warren:
    That’s a turd that won’t respond to any amount of polishing. Yes, please, Republicans, do “investigate” the jobs numbers and make it #93487745 in a series demonstrating you’re insane and don’t live in the real world.

    And oh, more camera time for Jack Welch. That would be great.

  255. 255.

    Suffern ACE

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Dan Quayle went ignominiously on to make a huge fortune at one of the largest PE firms in the world. I’m sure he’s crying about what the VP gig bought for him.

  257. 257.

    WJS

    @Bill E Pilgrim: I suspect that Ryan was told, again and again, “don’t mention Kennedy.”

    What’d he do? He brain farted.

    He was weak and pathetic. He was too young and inexperienced to be on the same stage as a guy who has been a Senator since the Nixon Administration.

  258. 258.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @FormerSwingVoter:

    I absolutely love The Onion’s post-debate wrap-up:

    I get the feeling that the Onion staffers really love the real Joe Biden because the real Joe Biden loves the Onion Joe Biden — or, at least, enjoys the Onion Joe Biden.

  259. 259.

    DPS

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    No, you can’t win there. And NBC was something else tonight, too. The woman with all the teeth said something along the lines of “this was a draw, which means you have to count it as a win for the Republicans,” whatever that means. And David what’s-his-name from MTP said he saw some pro-Biden and some pro-Ryan tweets, which meant it was a draw. Is that how it works now?

    That said, I thought it was clear from the 1st presidential debate that that was just a turd from Barack. Next time, let them fret about whether he was too assertive and passionate in standing up for the American people and what he believes. Mitt Romney of all people does not get to be the embodiment of patriotic conviction.

  260. 260.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Zounds, Letterman is unloading with a vengeance on Paul Ryan’s wannabro weightlifting pictures

  262. 262.

    DPS

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    The Onion Biden is an extended mash note to the real one. It’s not “he’s completely the opposite of this” humor, but “in a slightly different reality, this is how he turns out, and wouldn’t that be awesome” humor.

  266. 266.

    jwb

    @Palli: Twice tonight, Ryan came close to melting in terms of body language. I can’t tell you when because I was watching with the sound off, but very pronounced. I will give him credit, however, for not collapsing into a puddle of goo. (Low expectations)

  267. 267.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @DPS:

    It’s not “he’s completely the opposite of this” humor, but “in a slightly different reality, this is how he turns out, and wouldn’t that be awesome” humor.

    Absolutely. There’s that Car & Driver interview where he jokes about the Onion giving him a Trans Am, and about speeding his brother’s Cadillac CTS-V up and down the driveway at the Naval Observatory as the only driving the Secret Service will allow him.

  268. 268.

    Mnemosyne

    @SatanicPanic:

    Wait, so the pundits are upset about someone being pushy and talking over the other guy. Huh, not what they said last week.

    Yeah, it’s so weird that Romney interrupting and talking over the moderator and his opponent was a sign of his Manly Alpha Maleness, but Biden doing the same thing is a sign that he’s just meeeeaaaannnn.

    Though I would like to point out that I called it — Biden brought that alpha-male thing that white male pundits love to the debate, and now they’re all having second thoughts about their week-long Romney flirtation.

  270. 270.

    Hill Dweller

    @DPS: The Village wants a horse race, and they’ll shamelessly shape their coverage to make it happen.

  271. 271.

    suzanne

    Once again, Paul Ryan couldn’t find a suit that fits. Dude has 6% body fat. He could TOTES pull off a sexy Italian suit. It might actually make him look good. However, I have to remember that for the GOP, Italian=gay.

  272. 272.

    PeakVT

    @suzanne: if by 6% you mean 10%, then, yes, Ryan has 6% body fat. Just like he runs sub-3 hour marathons in over 4 hours.

    (Yes, I know, 10% is still pretty damn good.)

  273. 273.

    Kane

    Ryan: “These pretzels are making me thirsty.”

    I have never seen someone drink so much water during a debate.

  275. 275.

    pepper

    i loved the policy debate reference. made me smile and nostalgic for my own debate memories. also loved the debate itself. loved to see team blue take charge.

  276. 276.

    Palli

    @suzanne: Yeah, another squirt of a republican , Josh mandel in Ohio, wears shirts at least 3 sizes too big and it just makes him look pre-teen trying on his Dad’s clothes.

  277. 277.

    Palli

    @suzanne: Yeah, another squirt of a republican , Josh mandel in Ohio, wears shirts at least 3 sizes too big and it just makes him look pre-teen trying on his Dad’s clothes.

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