We’ll handle the debate tonight the same way we handled last night’s: I’ll liveblog here, Joe Patrice will liveblog (I hope) here, and we’ll do a Coveritlive things where everyone can participate. The comments will be turned off here.
Please people: no bedwetting tonight. I don’t care what happens, I’m saying Obama crushed it (football fans: do you find that Corona ad as annoying as I do?).
If Romney stood up there and talked about the right heights of trees for 90 minutes, Jennifer Rubin would say he had Churchillian eloquence and Reaganesque charisma. We can take a page from her book.
schrodinger's cat
Cue Bernard Finel to come and concern troll on this post, and he won’t be the only one.
KXB
The last Obama-Romney debate was 13 days ago. There has been little “real” campaign news since then, aside from various polls of varying quality. And yet, cable news has been chattering nonstop. After awhile, it just become street noise. I’m tempted to not watch tonight, because I suspect a winner will be crowned within 5 minutes.
Metrosexual Manichean Monster DougJ
@schrodinger’s cat:
Ha ha ha ha.
Bobby Thomson
And be ready to Freep the shit out of those god damn online polls, especially in swing states.
eemom
Rude Pundit is particularly brutally spot on today.
blingee
The problem I am concerned about is that Obama expectations are too high. He really did not do all that badly the last debate. Combined with what the Village said about the Biden debate I KNOW even if Obama knocks it out of the park they will call it a tie.
So expectations of a big Obama win are unrealistic. Expectations of it reversing the poll gains Rmoney made the last debate are unrealistic. There was a lot more to the Rmoney gains than just the debate performance becauase the bounce stuck. That tells me another debate will probably not be able to unstick it.
I hope I am wrong.
eemom
Can you explain again how the Coveritlive thing works?
Omnes Omnibus
I’m with 3M DougJ. Obama kicked Romney’s ass upand down the stage. Note the verb tense. That’s how I’m calling it.
BGinCHI
Tonight will be less about substance than it will be about perception. If Obama projects leadership, he’ll swing back into the lead. Romney is going to lie. So what. Let him.
Obama needs to try to rattle him by getting up in his grille not by being angry but by being forceful and cool. Dare Romney to lose his temper.
Closing line: “I’m the President, motherfucker, and you’re a liar.”
schrodinger's cat
And on cue, in comment #6 we have blingee. I am sure to be followed by more trolls. OMG Barack is the fail, we is lost, polls say so.
NotMax
Doesn’t that kind of negate the whole point of live blogging?
Metrosexual Manichean Monster DougJ
@eemom:
You just show up and comment. We will put up a link.
There’s some kind of moderation process that mistermix will handle.
BGinCHI
@Omnes Omnibus: Is Doug sponsored by 3M now?
Sell out.
Still….lifetime supply of post-it notes is pretty cool.
MikeJ
@eemom: Fuck it, we’ll do it live!
blingee
@schrodinger’s cat: I’m not saying it. The poll aggregators are saying to. Go complain to Nate Silver if you don’t like the message.
Go complain to the Kosanistas if you don’t like the high expectations they are putting on the debate and how they totally bought into the Village’s meme last time.
dmsilev
@eemom: It’s like commenting here, except that it isn’t powered by FYWP and a pair of hamsters so it holds up better under large loads.
Omnes Omnibus
@BGinCHI: Duct tape too.
Comrade Jake
If you look at the format and the rules, it kind of sounds like this debate will be a real snooze-fest. Thank God for twitter, I guess.
BGinCHI
Who wants to speculate on what Sully is doing to prep for tonight?
What does the great man choose for his last meal? How does he fortify himself for the pearl clutching and gnashing of teeth?
Matt
Yes. I find that Corona ad deeply annoying. Who says “crushed it” like that? Sends shivers down my spine.
More relevantly, I’m already impressed at how Obama crushed Romney tonight. Made him look small and petty. Got under his skin and made Romney look unpresidential. I think Romney lost the election tonight.
(See, it’s easy.)
PeakVT
If I can find a stream that doesn’t choke I might watch the debate. I’m certainly not going to listen to it because there’s nothing either could say that would change my mind.
Johnny Gentle (famous crooner)
Yes, I suspect a large reason behind Obama’s “freefall” is because pundits said it was so. Any normal person watching the debate probably wouldn’t have seen Obama’s performance as so bad.
This, of course, is because most normal people don’t really understand all the things said in a debate, much less what’s true or false. They need media and pundits to tell them what just happened.
But when a shitstorm of wailing leftist pundits on MSNBC and elsewhere talks about how bad Obama does, then it becomes fact. You are 100% right: republicans would NEVER admit defeat like that.
1badbaba3
@eemom: This. If only.
BGinCHI
@Omnes Omnibus: That magnificent bastard.
schrodinger's cat
@NotMax: Its more like live Cheerleading!
Has any body in the Village commented on the orange glow Mitt is sporting these days.
I have two theories,
To endear himself to the Hispanic voters, he has been spraying on a fake tan.
2. He has taken to drink.
It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
dmsilev
@BGinCHI: Well, I would say it would involve going out to the neighborhood coffee shop for a few quad-shot espressos, but apparently Sullivan has barricaded himself inside his NY apartment behind a heap of sofa cushions or something, so that’s out.
Ian
The Ohio SC decision and the Iowa poll have talked me back in off the ledge. Which I guess means it’s time for the Gallup tracker to send me back out there…
Joe Buck
“I don’t care what happens, I’m saying Obama crushed it.”
Thanks, then we can just skip your debate analysis and read Joe’s. We’re supposed to be the reality-based side.
Todd
@Omnes Omnibus:
3M DougJ sounds like an awesome rapper name.
kathy a.
If Romney stood up there and talked about the right heights of trees for 90 minutes, Jennifer Rubin would say he had Churchillian eloquence and Reaganesque charisma. HA!
I personally am wondering if Romney can top his own previous records for prevarication.
Kinda wondering about this format, though. Town Hall is good. But seriously, there are still undecided voters, and those will be the people posing questions???? If they don’t do some serious screening of the questions, this has the potential to look like Bizarro World.
Not a problem for Romney, since he will just spit out his mimeo-responses no matter the question. I trust Obama can roll with it, though the quality of questions strikes me as a problem.
BGinCHI
@dmsilev: I’m amazed that his number 1 complaint about NYC is that it has shoddy delivery.
Does he even remember he’s English?
blingee
@dmsilev: @BGinCHI: What did he do for the Biden debate? That should give you a clue.
Violet
Did anyone see this from Saturday in Mother Jones:
So despite folks on the left and Andrew Sullivan running around with their hair on fire, it wasn’t just the debate that led to Obama’s poll numbers falling.
amk
scotusblog
kathy a.
@Omnes Omnibus: yes he did.
Political Observer
Romney has now closed the favorability gap according to Gallup today! More bad news for Democrats.
When are you going to learn? Unless there’s a Clinton on the ticket, Republicans always win in the end. Always.
schrodinger's cat
@BGinCHI: He is sitting on his fainting couch, with smelling salts on the side. I am not sure whether he is wearing pearls or they are the invisible kind.
Villago Delenda Est
Meh, I’m going out for Pizza with the gang.
With the foul Crowley sow doing whatever she can to help the vile parasite Rmoney, Obama will have to be seriously on his game to make a show of it.
I’m confident he will.
OGLiberal
PPP’s Sunday sample seemed like a huge outlier so not overly concerned about their Romney 4pt lead. Not happy about it but not losing my mind. What I find strange is that Gallup and Rasmussen seem to be going in opposite directions with Rasmussen actually being kinder to Obama. Gallup again today showed gains for Romney and losses for Obama, even as Obama’s approval/disapproval ratings improved. Rasmussen has, for a long time, had Obama’s approval hovering in the 48-50 range. It looks like his national numbers have settled in at Romney +2. But his swing state numbers over the last few days have moved in Obama’s favor with O now at +2. Similar to the differences in swing state numbers between Politico, WaPo/ABC and Gallup.
quannlace
“The Supreme Court is siding with Democrats in refusing to block early voting in the battleground state of Ohio.
The court on Tuesday refused a Republican request to get involved in a dispute over early voting in the state on the three days before Election Day.”
******
Good news, but for fuck’s sake, I thought this was finally settled. Do you mean they were still trying to obstruct this?
Political Observer
Romney has also crossed the FIFTY PERCENT MARK in today’s Gallup Daily Tracker of likely voters.
Stick a fork in him–Obambi’s done. Send ’em back to Southsided Chicago on the Greyhound.
NotMax
@PeakVT
C-SPAN
wrb
@BGinCHI:
I’m sure he’s naked for his garments are all rent.
someone ashamed to admit she reads astrology websites
Well, Obama is still under the effects of his Chiron return, but he’s going to have Jupiter sesquiquadrate his natal Jupiter and the Moon/Mercury conjunction sesquiquadrate his natal Venus. Both Obama and Romney are under some Saturn pressure beginning tomorrow, though. And the US will have transiting Mars opposite the country’s natal Uranus, square to our progressed Sun.
The stars have spoken.
cckids
@BGinCHI:
This. All the talk about how people hope Obama took notes from Biden makes me a bit queasy. I loved what Joe did, but if Pres. Obama comes out & acts like that, it will just come across as inauthentic.
What he mainly needs to do is be himself; talk to people & let his caring & compassion show as well as his intellect. He has a great deal of natural charisma, let it shine! Christ knows these things are being judged much more on impressions & style than on whether the participants are good on substance.
Political Observer
Time for President-Elect Romney to focus on cabinet picks and his positive agenda for America. Further attacks on Obambi won’t be necessary, at least not from the PE himself.
lacp
I’ve read that Romney does well in these town-hall things, but I’m damned if I can figure out why. The man whose picture appears in the dictionary next to “stiff-assed” hardly seems like the type to handle Q&A from the little people with any skill.
Villago Delenda Est
@eemom:
He is, yes he is indeed.
Some very stupid people need to be slapped, hard, upside the head, with a clue by four.
If you vote Repuke, you deserve to be enserfed.
schrodinger's cat
@blingee: I get the message, what I don’t like is the repetition in each and every thread of, OMG we are doomed. It gets tiresome.
Bill
I’m so pleased to know I’m not the only one who finds that guy saying that he “crushed it” absolutely annoying (and more than a little creepy). It doesn’t help that his “friends” all treat it like it’s a perfectly normal thing to say.
Who would ever say that, especially in that manner? I imagine he must have worked with Romney at Bain.
lacp
@Political Observer: You’re supposed to save the ALL CAPS for UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH.
BGinCHI
@Political Observer: Except for the last election, numbnuts.
Come back here later tonight after you clean the fudge factory out of your tightey whiteys.
T. Bombadil
Because we wouldn’t want B-J to start a generalized panic throughout the nation’s Democrats?
Rubin is an ass whisperer whose vicious head is so angrily up her nether places that she can make Ann Coulter seem like Margret Chase Smith. Why use her, even humorously, as an example?
This is not Obama’s forte, so don’t expect too much. Yet if he channels his inner president and remembers that he is the 44th leader this nation has chosen – and that means something important to far more than 47% of the people, he should be able to do enough.
wrb
@Violet:
Ms. Ball in the Atlantic is suggesting that the Univision & 60 Minutes interviews started the slide.
Villago Delenda Est
@Political Observer:
Gallup is the poll of fucktards. Like you, maggot.
Forum Transmitted Disease
@Political Observer: You remind me of my mother. She always would run around screaming that we were all doomed about something or other. It lacks dignity.
kathy a.
@amk: woot! great news for ohio voters.
rlrr
@lacp:
I’ve read that Romney does well in these town-hall things, but I’m damned if I can figure out why.
Town hall meetings were supposedly McCain’s forte…
PeakVT
@wrb: I thought he was smearing himself with beagle shit. (h/t Mrs. Cracker)
lacp
@rlrr: Oh, yeah, President McCain. Forgot all about him.
Comrade Jake
I’m really not sure I can tolerate another 90 min of the RomneyGrin.
Cacti
Obama won the debate. He was calm, at ease, and yet forceful and eloquent.
Romney was sweaty and nervous when answering the questions of the 47-percenters. He seemed out of touch with their concerns.
Redshift
@quannlace: Yup. I doubt the vote-suppressing Ohio Secretary of State actually thought he’d win the appeal; he was just appealing to keep his “I don’t have to issue rules as long as the case isn’t settled” con game going.
AkaDad
If Romney wins, I’ll be thanking all of Obama’s “supporters” who took a big dump on him 30 days before the election.
You guyz are awesome.
Elizabelle
I think someone at MSNBC needs to sit near Chris Matthews and Ed Schulz with an elephant gun tonight.
Industrial strength tranquilizers.
Violet
@lacp: Heard on the news this morning that Romney has done 70 (? not sure of exact number) more town hall events this year than Obama.
rlrr
@Violet:
Obama has been a bit busy lately…
Redshift
@schrodinger’s cat: We should have sympathy for him. Can you imagine how much it costs to get an apartment in NYC big enough for all those fainting couches?
cckids
@Violet:
Its not like he has a day job or anything. . .
Violet
@wrb: I saw that too. I don’t know who Ms. Ball is, though.
Villago Delenda Est
@cckids:
Pretty much this.
T. Bombadil
@wrb: Ms Ball and other would be more wrong than right. The President’s conscious choices made his performance appear lacking to almost all but the Tinkerbell clappers.
Granted there was piling on, but that is what happens when a significant fuck up is noticed. It is like that in sports, arts and politics. Throughout August and September, Romney was the engineer of his downward slide. I saw no one here blame the media for that. Next thing ya know we will start claiming the polls are flawed….oh, wait.
raven
@Violet: Lucille?
catclub
Also, the stock market is up this week on expectations of an Obama debate win!
Actually, it started rising Mar 9, 2009 in expectation of a Mitt Romney election victory in 2012.
Ash Can
Wait, what? There’s a debate tonight? Why? I thought the election was a couple of weeks ago, and Obama lost. And lost all the downticket races too.
You guys are all just pulling my leg, aren’t you?
Violet
@cckids: Oh, yeah, I know. I just thought it was informative. Romney also had all the primary debates. Debate practice in real debates is good stuff. Obama had that last time with the primaries and this time he didn’t. That might have been a factor.
Romney doing more town hall events might help him out. Might not. It was a town hall sort of event in Iowa where he said “corporations are people, my friend”. But that was over a year ago, so maybe he’s improved.
Villago Delenda Est
@catclub:
Like rain falling from the sky, a “Romney Boom” will materialize out of thin air on 20 January 2013 if only we’re wise enough to install the parasite shitstain into the White House, driving that ni*CLANG* from it and restoring purity.
Well, that’s the story that Taco sends us. Remember how you could “take it to the bank” that Rmoney was going to win the primaries in both Minnesota and Colorado last spring? Good times!
1badbaba3
3MDougJ is right! Psychotiic, but absolutely right! We gotta take these bastards! OBAMA VICTORY! ! !
If it’s just about people makin’ shit up, we can do that, probably better than they can. Who’s with me? Let’s Goooooooooooo!
fubar
I’m all in with DougJ. Who cares how Prez Obama does, act like he won and no whinging. The MEDIA will present it as either:
a) a wash (if Prez Obama wins it outright), or
b) Willard crushed the Kenyan in the cage match to the death (if Willard even gets in one good line).
So who gives a fuck what they say. Is it gonna change your mind? Act like the Prez is ‘the one’ and people will follow.
The MEDIA do more than just keep saying ‘both sides do it’. They are actively engaged in ensuring that the race is somewhat close. They feel it is their right to make it a horse race, because that is how they see all political contests. So they will spin away Willard’s negatives and play up Republican talking points just to keep the race even. Otherwise, Prez Obama would have won this in the first inning – can’t have that.
WaterGirl
@T. Bombadil:
Anyone who says town halls are not Obama’s forte has never actually watched Obama do a town hall.
Francis
Good grief! Was just over on Sullivan’s blog. Are we sure he is British and not French. Surrender! Surrender! Retreat! Allez-y!
Sully’s acting like Obama’s running against Franklin Jefferson Lincoln. It’s WILLARD fucking ROMNEY for Christ’s sake! Everyone chill the fuck out…Barack’s got this.
Irony Abounds
Today’s bedwetter may well be tomorrow’s sage analyst. Obama’s first debate performance stunk up the room, there is no real question about it. When your opponent lies through his teeth, and you fail to convincingly and passionately call him on it, you lose, period. I was right when I said the polls in the week after the debate would show a Romney surge, and unless Obama does something tonight that turns the tide, this country is in real trouble, with a new President who is a liar and utterly without the least bit of concern about anyone other than the those like him who have more money than God, and joined by a Congress that will work with him hand in hand to run roughshod over all but the uber rich. Denial isn’t a good thing.
Chris T.
I’m concerned that people are concerned about the concerns that people are concerning!
NR
@AkaDad:
Of course. Obama can’t fail, he can only be failed.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
My favorite part of the debate was when Obama walked on stage with two hatboxes.
Opens one: It’s the severed head of Ghaddafi. Opens the other: Bin Laden’s head (or rather, what was left of it).
That moment when he looked over at Romney, folded his arms and (after nearly 20 seconds of stone-cold silence), quietly asked “any fucking questions?” was priceless.
jwb
You don’t even have to lie, you just have to keep your eyes on the target. And the target is Romney, not Obama. It’s not exactly rocket science and I’m not sure why so many on the left missed this idiotically simple point. For whatever reason, Bernard Finel still seems unable to grasp it.
OGLiberal
@lacp: Part of the reason is because the man is a very good, shameless, convincing liar and undecided voters – ie, uninformed, out of touch, clueless voters – eat that shit up. Stan Greenberg recently did some research that showed that undecideds like Romney 5-point plan. Now, anybody knows that a 10-year old could have come up with that plan because it’s just five bullet points with not explanation of how he’ll accomplish these things. But undecided voters hears, “More jobs, cheaper energy, more teachers, lower taxes for the middle class, decreased deficit…sounds awesome!” Obama then asks how he’s going to do it, and Romney just repeats the five points, or denies that what he actually wants to do will accomplish none of his five points. Then Obama presents his plan, begins to explain how he’s going to do it or how Romney won’t be able to accomplish his, and undecided voters go, “Zzzzzzzzzzzzz”. They want happy sounding bullet points – facts and explanations be damned!
Greenberg said Obama needs to recapture the change mantle and that saying, “we can’t go back to the old ways”, isn’t enough. But tough for a sitting president to represent change. And heaven forbid Obama follow Sully’s advice for being the change candidate by embracing Simpson-Bowles. If undecided voters are already tuning out Obama’s message they will turn it completely off if he starts discussing details about a deficit commission they never heard of.
eemom
@Violet:
Near as I can figure she’s the Atlantic’s version of Chris Cilizza. I.e., their in-house purveyor of horse race/false equivalence bullshit.
Cacti
@Irony Abounds:
You’re half right. 538 and PEC both showed a Romney bounce that has started to flatten out. The new normal has him in a stronger position, but he peaked at about 37% on 538, and has since receded to 34%.
Forum Transmitted Disease
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: This would be more awesome if it were three hatboxes – one empty – and he just stared at Romney the entire debate, daring him. Daring him to ask who the third box is for.
schrodinger's cat
@Redshift: Oh the Huge Manatee!
Seriously though, with friends like Sully who needs enemies.
T. Bombadil
@WaterGirl: I am speaking about debates in general regardless of formats and to be quite honest, I cannot recall seeing Obama in a contested setting in a town hall event. I hope he was brilliant.
trollhattan
@DougJ
Willard’s shoulders are now capable of hosting an entire F-18 airwing, demonstrating he’s already built the first of twenty new carriers he’s promised in his first term.
T. Bombadil
@NR: Oh come on. Don’t be so biased. Remember we were winning Vietnam until the media said we weren’t. Damn them.
AkaDad
@NR:
The sole focus should have been on Romney’s unprecedented amount of lies and the media not making that the main story.
Liberals don’t have to be bad at politics if they don’t want to be.
raven
@T. Bombadil: Charlie had no say in the matter.
T. Bombadil
@raven: So….who killed my neighbor? Walter Cronkite?
azelie
Here’s what bugs me about the Corona ad even more than the way the guy says “crushed it:” who just buys an extra bottle of beer for friends that will eventually show up? You might get a pitcher anticipating that more people will join your group, but the newcomers would still need to stop by the bar to get a cold glass.
Soonergrunt
I’m not creating a new thread, because this is firmly in Kay’s wheelhouse:
The US Supreme Court has refused to hear Ohio’s appeal of the lower court decision restoring full early voting rights to all Ohioans.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16/supreme-court-ohio-early-voting_n_1970603.html
catclub
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: The reason for the no props rule.
Bobby Thomson
@T. Bombadil: I see you missed the 2008 campaign.
ETA: Oh, shit, you actually made a declarative statement that town halls aren’t Obama’s forte when you didn’t even know if he had done any? You must work for CNN.
T. Bombadil
@Bobby Thomson: I, more than many people here, hope the final weeks of this campaign follows a similar script as in ’08.
scott
I’m pretty forgiving and grade on the curve. If he makes an effort, even if it ain’t perfect, I’ll be the hacktasticest hack you could want. If we gives us something like last time, I just will refrain from pointing out the obvious. Everyone wins!
WaterGirl
@T. Bombadil: Google the town hall from 2008 where McCain calls Obama “that one!” and is maniacally pacing the stage, looking crazed.
While Obama is happily engaging folks in the town hall.
Edit: This was the town hall that happened right after all the pundits were talking about how great McCain is at town halls and what a bad forum town halls were for Obama. Their script never changes.
Patricia Kayden
“Please people: no bedwetting tonight. I don’t care what happens, I’m saying Obama crushed it”
Amen. That’s exactly what the Rethugs did with Ryan. Those who watched the debate saw Biden verbally beating him down, but the Righties made sure that the next day, they spun the VP debate as a Ryan victory. Facts be damned.
Why can’t our side support this President and not give him a hard time based on a 90-minute debate performance (given all he’s accomplished in the last 4 years, and what is at stake in the next four)?
ruemara
Good Lord. Who are you people who think President O has less ability in town hall formats than Romney? Who the fuck are you listening to? Have you seen Romney in a room where the net worth averages out to less than a mil per person? Jayzus. You can feel what you want, but the facts for your statement are not in evidence.
Patricia Kayden
@Political Observer: What a stupid comment. Obama/Biden won in 2008, you moron.
Why am I wasting my time responding to you? Bad me.
Patricia Kayden
@Cacti: That’s great to know. Hopefully, President Obama does enough tonight to improve his chances in the swing states.