From the editorial:
Nowhere has Mitt Romney’s pursuit of the presidency been more warmly welcomed or closely followed than here in Utah. The Republican nominee’s political and religious pedigrees, his adeptly bipartisan governorship of a Democratic state, and his head for business and the bottom line all inspire admiration and hope in our largely Mormon, Republican, business-friendly state.
But it was Romney’s singular role in rescuing Utah’s organization of the 2002 Olympics from a cesspool of scandal, and his oversight of the most successful Winter Games on record, that make him the Beehive State’s favorite adopted son. After all, Romney managed to save the state from ignominy, turning the extravaganza into a showcase for the matchless landscapes, volunteerism and efficiency that told the world what is best and most beautiful about Utah and its people.
In short, this is the Mitt Romney we knew, or thought we knew, as one of us.
In one of the most conservative states in the union, the state where getting elected to anything higher than Dog Catcher is difficult, if not damn near impossible for a “gentile,” Bishop Romney’s character has been found wanting.
Sadly, it is not the only Romney, as his campaign for the White House has made abundantly clear, first in his servile courtship of the tea party in order to win the nomination, and now as the party’s shape-shifting nominee. From his embrace of the party’s radical right wing, to subsequent portrayals of himself as a moderate champion of the middle class, Romney has raised the most frequently asked question of the campaign: “Who is this guy, really, and what in the world does he truly believe?”
Honesty and integrity are universal values. We used to be able to say “I don’t agree with anything you just said, but I admire your conviction,” but we can’t say that about Mitt Romney. The only conviction he seems to have is the conviction that he should be President, regardless of whatever he might have to say, whichever ass he might have to kiss, however he might have to debase himself to get into that office.
It’s a conviction that renders him singularly unqualified for the office of the President of the United States.
It is for these reasons, among others, that the Denver Post, a generally moderate-conservative paper, has also endorsed President Obama for re-election. Now, I know that newspaper endorsements never really meant a whole hell of a lot, and these days they’re probably even less. But you can’t deny it’s pretty cool.
Also too, Open Thread
I’d be more pumped if they endorsed McCain in ’08, but they did not. Still awesome though.
Also: LIBERAL MEDIA
good god fuck chuck todd
Wow. This is good news for Huntsman.
Back when and not positive now -the Denver Post was a conservative newspaper.
Totally nicely surprised by the Utah newspaper.
A newspaper in Tampa also endorsed the president. Sorry I do not have the name.
I agree with you totally, Sooner.
@HRA: That’s the Tampa Bay Times.
Honesty and integrity are generally admirable; conviction — eh. The Tea Party has lots of conviction.
(a) No thanks.
(b) What did he do/say this time?
The core of the SLTrib’s analysis:
The editorial itself is worth a read. I enjoyed it, anyway.
@Narcissus: What did Chuckie do today?
That was terrible analysis. If you want to call it that.
That Harry Reid fella must know some secret Mormon spells The Mittster hasn’t mastered yet.
This is great. One of the key things people know about Mormons is that Utah is Mormon ground zero. If the main Utah paper says Mormon Mitt isn’t the right guy to be president, that says a lot.
Is this like the Vatican newspaper endorsing a Protestant?
Salt Lake City is a mildly progressive island in the middle of one of the otherwise most deeply crimson-red states in the country. Mormons only make up about 50% of Salt Lake City proper; there are just enough hippies, skiers, rock climbers, and perhaps 20% of the Mormons who don’t swallow the LDS church’s kool-aid in the voting booth to trend democratic locally, even though the rest of the state is prohibitively dominated by the GOP.
The Salt Lake Tribute would be a decent middle-of-the-road paper in any other city, but it’s relatively progressive-leaning by Utah standards. In other words, this is at best a pleasant development rather than any sort of stunning surprise.
Now if instead SLC’s other major paper, the Deseret News, had endorsed Obama for a second term, I would faint dead away from shock. (The Deseret News is the newspaper organ of the LDS Church even more so than the way Fox News is the organ of the Republican party).
I have spent over two months in Salt Lake City over the past year, including over six and a half weeks in a single stretch, and got to read both papers many mornings while there courtesy of being provided free at the breakfast cafe in Whole Foods. So I am familiar with what I speak of.
BTW: the word “Deseret” turns out to not be some quixotic or archaic spelling of “desert” in common use by the Mormon pioneers who came with Brigham Young to settle the area. Instead, it’s a quixotic word for “beekeeping”, the intended allegory being the LDS ideal of an industrious citizenry.
What’s a newspaper?
@beltane: No, the equivalent would be the Deseret News endorsing Obama.
@beltane: Yeah. More like National Catholic Reporter endorsing a Jew for political office over the head of the Knights of Columbus.
@beltane: LOL. Pravda endorsing Reagan.
@Violet: The Salt Lake Tribune actually overstates some of Willard’s accomplishments before sticking the knife in. It’s pretty ruthless.
It’s like the Vatican newspaper endorsing Martin Luther in 1520.
I’m having lots of computer problems or I would follow the link. But sounds pretty revelatory to me. Trying to imagine his reaction if he is questioned about it, which he should be.
He just basically told Tweety that Obama has no chance to win. That Mittens is going to win and the polls are going his way with no mention of the start of the drop in the surge and how it is evening out. Based on what, I still don’t understand. But he and the Politico guy were sure.
teh twitter tells me that Salt Lake City Tribune endorsed Dewey, Eisenhower, Nixon, Goldwater, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush/41, Bush/43, McCain, Obama.
Way to break the mold, mittbot.
I’m still going to present it that way to anyone who asks.
Or Julia Child endorsing the Donner Party?
You’d like to think so. But Richard Nixon.
Chuckie’s been rooting for Mittens since the start of this campaign. Even when Obama’s surge was highest, he was always spinning how close it was and how good Romney’s chances were.
In which TBogg begins with dead Newsweek, then mocks ‘of-the-moment’ Daily beast and pauses to bat McMegan around before going off to walk the bassets.
@geg6: Yeah, this.
Sorry to derail
I just hate that little shit
Fixteth for moar White Horse Prophecy.
@Narcissus: Yeah Chuckie Todd is trending in the wingnut world. Apparently he was saying that crap on Charlie Rose as well.
CW in LA
@Soonergrunt: Agreed: To people who aren’t well acquainted with Utah/SLC, it’ll play like “ZOMG! A Pittsburgh paper is picking the Bengals over the stealers!” And I’m quite comfortable encouraging that perception.
I I was there, I would have just said, “Ohio, bitches. How about them Yankees. They sure did suck.”
So much for the White Horse Prophesy?
Sheriff Joe Federal litigation for sale on Ebay
Apparently, with little faith in the justice system holding sheriff joe accountable, federal litigation pending in the 9th circuit is for sale on ebay for 99 cents.
“To know, know, know him is to loathe, loathe, loathe him.
I think they’re still pissed at him for building this monstrosity.
I had a hilarious fb interaction today where a HS acquaintance in FL was promoting the Orlando Sentinel’s endorsement of mittens as evidence that people were “waking up” but couldn’t really explain how available evidence could lead to that conclusion. Her angle: ignore the Salt Lake Trib because Utah isn’t a close race but the Orlando endorsement is a GAME CHANGER because FL is a tight race. But we should ignore the Tampa one as well because obots brought it to her attention.
I’m having a little fun with this one on the Facebook with my (god bless ’em) low-information friends.
I’m sure there are progressive leaning Salt Lakers (Rocky Anderson for president! LOL) and all, but up here in the rust belt, most people think Utah is like a religious version of Children of the Corn or something.
@amk: I’m almost certain the Salt Lake Tribune endorsed Obama, not McCain in 2008.
I still think it’s great, and newspaper endorsements are interesting to me. I wonder who the Cincinnati Enquirer will endorse this time around? Hahaha, no I don’t! You could set clocks by the Enquirer’s GOP endorsements.
@magurakurin: Ohio, bitches, indeed!! Fox News poll just released has Obama +3 in my semi-beloved Buckeye State. That’s gotta give the GOP some palpitations, no?
@Soonergrunt: Something folks who have spent little to no time in Salt Lake City don’t realize is how comfortably secular a place it is for non-Mormons, despite having Temple Square and the world headquarters of the LDS Church prominently in the heart of the city. Yes, if you live there you (and your kids) will be outsiders to the Mormon community in that there will be substantial chunks of their social life you’re excluded from (your non-Mormon kids may not get invites to Mormon classmates’ birthday parties for example), but it’s really not much of a problem because there’s also such a huge, diverse, prevalent non-Mormon population to hang with. People’s Mormonism or not is irrelevant on the ski slopes.
OTOH, one evening I stopped at a Mexican restaurant in Price, Utah on my way back to Salt Lake City from Moab (Price is an isolated town in the center of the state) The two men in the adjacent booth spent a half-hour while I was there engaging in vigorous, hairsplitting debate about some of the finer points of the role of Christ in Mormon theology that were totally alien to my ability as a lax Methodist to follow. Note that I’m not commenting at all on the correctness or validity of what these gentlemen were discussing, but rather that the theology and cited source material were simply incomprehensibly alien and dense to my ability to follow along more than brief snatches. That little vignette in the restaurant in Price is emblematic of the Utah that dominates outside SLC and its immediate suburbs.
I would guess “gut feeling” from LOOK AT THE GALLUP TRACKING POLL OMG! But that does seem kind of strange, since polls were the one thing Chuckie was kind of good at, before he got Peter-Principled out of that field.
I’m inclined to trust Nate Silver’s “Gallup is not a bad pollster, but the previous times when they’ve had a major difference from everyone else, they’ve always been wrong.”
I still find it hilarious that Newt et al couldn’t even get on the primary ballot in many states, yet the Justice party, the Green party, the Soçialism & Liberation party, and the Soçialist Workers party all managed to get on the ballot for the general, at least in Washington.
Most Republicans couldn’t organize a piss up in a brewery.
Maybe he’s trying to take over Dick Morris’ job
@cmorenc: The fact that it took you so many words to explain why this isn’t a shocker–and you’re right–is why this will continue to be an optical disaster for the Romney campaign.
A buddy and I are considering going to Ohio the weekend before Election Day to do some GOTV. For a couple of NYC city slickers like ourselves, would we play better in Cleveland, Columbus, or Cincinnati?
Or, perhaps the better question – would our help be better employed in another state that’s not too far away (thinking Virginia)?
“Too Many Mitts” would make for a fine sitcom. 2-3 seasons, with Kirk Cameron as the “Soda Jerk”.
Probably Columbus, but I prefer Cleveland as a city. Cincy is pretty, but I prefer a city more like my own and Cleveland has a fantastic food scene.
I could somewhat understand Todd saying Romney has a shot at the popular vote. But saying Obama can’t win, despite being in a stronger position than Willard at this point, is stupid, borderline strange.
Todd sounds a lot like the Suffolk pollster who said they weren’t going to poll FL and VA any longer because Obama can’t win.
In terms of organizing, I think Cincy and Columbus need it more. Cleveland is pretty blue, even most of the suburbs.
@geg6: I’d guess Cleveland, actually. Doing GOTV in Columbus on a weekend during football season must be a miserable experience.
It could be like that one bit from Calvin and Hobbes.
“Mitt #4 said that, not me. You can ask him, he’ll be here next week.”
@geg6: I’ve only been to Columbus, but this was back in 2000, so I don’t have a good memory of it.
That said, I really don’t much care where we end up city-wise in terms of the scene…I care more about where our feet on the ground would help the most. I know Cuyahoga County is very important statewide for Democrats generally, but I know that Cincy historically has been more conservative (but Obama overperformed there), and Columbus is a bastion of blue in the middle of what appears to be a very conservative middle of the state.
Basically, I am looking to pound pavement for 8-10 hours both days, have a decent lunch spot and dinner spot nearby to recharge, and make sure we GOTV for Obama and Sherrod Brown (who probably needs less help at this point).
Just rewound Hardball to listen to what Chuck Todd said. He was asked about whether there is a “national mandate” crossing the country toward any candidate right now, and Whuck Wodd said “Not right now, but I am still a believer that it’s still possible, but more for Romney than for Obama.” They then started talking about the right track/wrong track number and how surprised Todd is that it hasn’t boosted Obama.
Tweety asked later if a Democrat could win without a gender gap, and that’s when Todd said “No way,” and he said it emphatically. So, maybe people misheard it or took it out of context? There was a lot of crosstalk, but I really didn’t get out of it that he was saying Obama is going to lose, period; just the way I heard it. To be honest it was a worthless bobblehead discussion.
What pissed me off about the segment was what always pisses me off when these blockhead pundits talk about Democrats on the stump. They all basically pooh-poohed Obama’s new stump speech today featuring “Romnesia,” saying why isn’t Obama talking about the future, why isn’t he saying what he’ll do in the next four years, why is he only hitting Romney instead of speaking positively, blah blah blah.” Same old shit we get every time; Democrats are expected to fight with their hands tied behind their backs while Republicans get a total pass.
As an aside, JMart from Politico always sounds half-crocked on the sauce to me.
Mike in NC
One fricking Mitt is one too many.
@JenJen: No Lippizaners for Willard, I’m afraid.
Yeah, but it’s a bit more cosmopolitan than Cincy or Cleveland. Because of being the capital, of course, and also because of the university.
@geg6: Fuck Chuck Todd. Everyone used to think he was a nerd who really loved his poll numbers, but once he got promoted to the Gang of 500 (as Halperin so lovingly calls the Village of Idiots), he became a complete douchenozzle.
But that’s fine…they can go with their ‘gut’, and then I will gladly punch them in it on November 6th when Ohio gets called for Obama before the polls on the West Coast close.
@JenJen: I take this to mean that “Romnesia” is a winner and they want Obama to stop employing it. It’s just like when they concern-trolled about attacking Romney’s record with Bain.
@JenJen: I would imagine that the OFA brain trust basically listens to what the Chuckster would do, and then does exactly the opposite.
CW in LA
That’s true, but, without the context, I think the assumption is that the only two possible states of affairs is A) gender gap; B) women vote like men. If men votes like women, Willard would at last rightly be facing toasthood. But men are the default position, as it seems. So, yeah: Prick.
@beltane: @dr. bloor: Correct on both counts!! I call it “The Halperin Rule.” Whatever the blockheads say, do the opposite. :-)
@PsiFighter37: Yes yes. I’ve got hero Photoshops of Chuck Todd as “The Wizard” from back in early 08, during the height of the Obama-Clinton Wars. But then, back then, Drudge as exceedingly pro-Obama as well.
How The Wizard has fallen. :(
@JenJen: I only watched the beginning of Hardball — turned it off when Todd started pushing “well, it’s dead even now”, despite the number of polls saying otherwise. But I thought Matthews’ question was the supidity that brought the rest of the conversation down. Yes, if there’s no gender gap — if women vote the same as men — Obama’s in deep trouble. But the only thing that ever suggested no gender gap was one outlier poll, which has since been contradicted in multiple state polls. That they’re still centering their conversation around one fluky/probably outdated number suggests how desperate they are to keep the discussion in “Ooh, it’s super close, you can’t turn off your set for a minute” territory.
@JenJen: I thought that was the “Kristol Corollary”?
The Mormons see Rmoney as someone who is damging their brand.
They might ascribe to many things most Americans don’t, but they certainly understand dishonesty.
The shame they (Mormans) must feel is sorrowful.
I doubt he will be welcome at the Salt Palace when this is over.
Columbus. See NYMag recent endorsement as a foodie destination.
@redshirt: The thing is, in hindsight, he wasn’t all that good. He was slightly annoying then, but he’s just the absolute worst now.
What a life it must be to spout absolute bullshit and get paid money you don’t deserve saying untruths and speaking from ‘the gut’ instead of having any factual basis for what you’re saying. Heck, I probably have a better understanding of the electoral process and American history than most of those turdblossoms.
@CW in LA: Oh, without a doubt, he’s a prick! They all are! And nothing makes me give good sideeye more than a group of boorish men completely discounting the way women react to politicians and speeches. Joe Scarborough and the all-male Morning Zoo Crew did the same thing to Mika Brzezinski on Wednesday’s show when she tried to explain to them that when Mitt said “binders full of women”, women stood up and took notice. She was right, and they all laughed at her, literally. Halperin was by far the worst; I’m sure you’re not shocked to learn that.
And please do not take that as any sort of endorsement of Mika’s pundit skills; broken clocks and all that.
@Tom Q: Couldn’t agree more. Scarborough has been wee-wee’d up about those one or two outliers showing the gender gap at neutral all freaking week. It’s laughable.
Morning Joe: I watch so you don’t have to!
Endorsements don’t mean a darned thing. The informed voters have already made up their minds. The rest, the undecideds or for the most part low-information voters would never ever read an editorial let alone an editorial promoting an endorsement.
It is like claiming that the Libya thing is going to sway voters. It won’t. It’s mostly about the economy and who is perceived as being the best to create jobs.
That said, it just amazes me how many people among the 47% that will proudly vote against their own economic self-interest. Romney has been a good used car salesman.
@Tom Q: Why don’t we ever see this question turned around, e.g. could any Republican be elected to national office without Fox News funneling propaganda into the largely empty brains of pudgy old white men?
Question: where are the mittbot’s endorsements ?
I wonder why he didn’t also ask – if men vote the same as women – is Romney in deep trouble?
I mean if he is going ask one idiotic question, why not go all the way…
Even PPP has ROMNEY ahead in Iowa and New Hampshire now. Ohio is tightening per SurveyUSA and Romney continues his utter domination of the Gallup poll.
NC FL and VA are now out of reach for Romney. All three states will be RED RED RED on November 6th. And now Obambi’s firewall in the midwest is also beginning to crack.
Oh, and only EIGHTEEN DAYS LEFT until President-Elect Romney!
Most I’ve read are scrawled on men’s room stalls.
Hang all capitalists
@JenJen: so what does a democrat have to do to get a mandate around here anyway?
So there is no national mandate, but but but, there is still time for one, and if there is, it’s more likely for Romney than Obama?
That is one weaselly ass statement. Great way to have it both ways, so when your wrong, you can say, hey, I said might, and still left it open for Obama. I wasn’t wrong.
I’m starting to hear more and more chatter about Mitt’s questionable mental stability based on comments from Anne and the brats.
Mark Halperin, what a dick!
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
Your employer might wish to hire an editor.
Thanks for that. Always kind of wondered, but not enough to bother looking it up.
Mike in NC
I’m surprised that the GOP hasn’t tried to ban the early voting many states have adopted. I voted today after work. There was good turnout but I waited all of five minutes to vote, as opposed to 2004 when I stood in line in the polling place in Alexandria, VA on election day for close to two hours.
I have sat in front of the Salt Lake Tribune editorial board and they are what we have all envisioned old school reporters to be: skeptical, prove-it-to-me, users of the Socratic method determiners of the truth that we would hope are the folks that filter out our news before we read it. They were tough, but reasonable.
Salt Lake City, as cmorenc ably notes, has a more diverse population than you’d think live there. For FSM’s sake, Robert Redford has his joint just up one of the canyons at Sundance. They have a bigger gay population than anyone would suspect, and as the movie SLC Punk pointed out, they also have a rebellious counter-culture to the prevailing religious mores.
The ed board editorial is a big deal, but Utah isn’t necessarily what folks outside of it envision it to be. There are non-Mormons there too.
@Political Observer: No Ohio, no president Romney. Elections are still won on electoral college votes, and both the PEC and FiveThirtyEight point to Obama 277+. It would be something though if Obama won the electoral college while losing the popular vote. I’d love to see the Republican freakout and reversals on the way that GW Bush won the first time.
It would be something bad
It’s going to be goddamn bad anyway whatever it is
Ohio alone is not enough. Obambi needs five additional EVs (a tie goes to Romney) even if he wins all the Kerry states.
fwiw, Robert Redford endorses Obama.
Fuck that shit. Look, Chuck Todd looks to be one of those people who fucks the populace in the ass on a regular basis. Show me a petition to get rid of him…I’ll sign it, show me a law to ban him…I’ll vote for it. But what I won’t do is play ball.
Chuck Todd can bite me
@Hal: Yes, exactly, that is precisely what they were saying and I laughed out loud. A national mandate can only be excellent news for Romney!! I mean, it’s insane. These fuckchops must have been heading for the liquor cabinet when Obama was leading the national polls comfortably following the conventions. Doesn’t fit the narrative! Narrative! Narrative! It’s always about the damned narrative.
And seriously, what kind of question is, “If there wasn’t a gender gap, could a Democrat win?” Sweet Buttery Jesus. “If there wasn’t a Democrat in the race, could a Democrat win?” “What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?” (h/t Garrett Morris on SNL)
My, my, such language, eh? These idiots really get me fired up. ;-)
I’d love to see the Republican freakout and reversals on the way that GW Bush won the first time.
I wouldn’t. That’s the second-worst option after a Romney victory. You think they wanted to tear down Obama before?
There are some people here who think a large-scale rebellion, maybe even the instigation of a civil war, is inevitable because the right is so out of their minds these days. I usually disagree (I think they’re mostly all bark and no bite), but I think if anything could cause it, it would be Obama winning the EV and losing the PV.
@cmorenc: A former colleague of mine (non-Mormon) moved out to SLC to remarry & start his own all business. When I was in town in 2005 he said, This is a pretty nice town–the streets are clean, everything works, and people are polite, But it doesn’t matter how long you’ve lived here or how many roots you may have put down–if you’re not a Mormon, you are only a guest. A very well treated guest, for the most part–but a guest nonetheless.
Mike in NC
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: Yup, the fucking troll really is that brain dead.
Mike in NC
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: Yup, the fucking troll really is that brain dead.
@Paul: Agreed 100%. Endorsements mean nothing and trying to conflate the opinion of the editorial board with some broader pro-mittens consensus is rather desperate.
@Uncle Cosmo: Shit, it’s like that in lots of places.
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: In the trade we call that a Fraudian slip.
@Political Observer: You’re an idiot troll.
AHH onna Droid
@cmorenc : wtf, I thought beehive referred to BY’s harem.
@JustRuss: Utah is the Beehive State.
State highway sign: http://www.flickr.com/photos/snowpeak/6010121518/
And ya’ll keep talking to it.
@Political Observer: You do know that the only toss-up/swing states that have Romney polling ahead of Obama are Florida and North Carolina, right? Not enough for a Romney win.
You know that those who are going to freak out will freak out no matter how Obama wins. A part of me wants to give them a taste of what 2000 felt like for supporters of Al Gore. But I hear you though; sometimes I feel there will be a rebellion, starting in the southern states, even if Obama wins the popular vote because the Romney margins in those states are a statement in and of themselves.
@magurakurin: Hey, he can bite me too. My post was in no way or manner an endorsement of his punditry. He’s a social-climbing Villager; I’m not sure it gets much worse, or is more dangerous to the electorate, than taking seriously the opinions of a second-tier Villager aiming for the top.
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God: lolz!!
NC VA and FL are now totally out of reach for Obama. All three are RED. Dark, crimson, blood RED.
All right, Mr. Smart Predictor Guy, let’s take a look. Kerry lost Iowa, Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada. They’re all worth more than 5 EV’s. Sure, Obama could go 3-4 or 2-4. But would you bet money on him going 0-4 in 4 states he won in 2008? I wouldn’t.
Even in your best-possible-scenario stumping for Romney (using the friendliest poll you can find and what not-Gallup’s poll today was vastly more favorable to Romney than anyone else’s), everything has to go his way for him to win, and I mean everything. Obama only has to hold his ground. You a gambling man?
Endorsements mean something. I’m not sure how much.
But there really are people out there going back and forth between the two candidates. I’ve got a 20 year old Sister from Vermont who’s Romney curious (I know: WTF?!).
My Mother tells me she’ll “probably” vote Obama. WTF? I say to myself, how is there any doubt.
But there is, for some. And for those people the local news paper’s endorsement probably does count for something.
Good to know. I figured that Romney’s internal polls showed a more pessimistic picture of his odds in the battleground states than what we are seeing in the published polls, but I didn’t know they had essentially written off North Carolina.
@amk: Jeebus. Last night he had the poll numbers backwards. I’m starting to feel legit sorry for this guy. However, any time he stops by and doesn’t throw something racist out there is a VICKTORY!
There are different degrees of freaking out. This will probably be one of those predictions that ends up looking impossibly naive, but I think a big Obama win (55-45 or so) will cool things down, at the very least for the pre-inauguration period. I imagine it would feel like waiting for the big game for weeks on end and then watching your team get crushed. Even they can’t keep up the raw, spittly emotion forever.
I think a small-to-moderate Obama win will see us stay at about current levels of bullshit, because they’ll all be hemming and hawing about stolen votes and the media handing it to him and how if women and blacks didn’t vote blah blah blah. I think a razor-thin win would see a bullshit uptick, and a EV/PV split might actually start a riot or two in the South.
From Redshirt’s internet dissertation (still in progress!): Who talks to known trolls?
1. New/naive people who are sincerely making an effort at debate (the troll loves this group more than any other).
2. People who think they’ll be the one to lay the ultimate smack down on the troll.
3. People trolling the troll.
Republicans always win a close Presidential race in the end, loser. Didn’t you learn that lesson from 2000 and 2004 idiot?
@Political Observer: Your stupidity is astounding. I bet your wingnut tears are more delicious than most. Can’t wait to taste it in EIGHTEEN DAYS!!!111
And you’ll have to find a new employer because of NO MORE UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH!!!111
@Spaghetti Lee: Riot by who, where? Talladega?
@Political Observer: You’re plainly a moran, because the Democrats won close presidential elections in 1948 and 1960 (and, to a lesser degree, 1976).
It’s like you’ve never heard of American history, or even gotten educated.
Based on what? Polls? I thought the fringes on the far right had claimed all the polls were wrong, including their own FoxNews poll.. Remember the bizarre unskewed polls and all that?
So where do you come up with that NC,VA and FL are for Romney since it is not based on polls?
BTW – what is it like in your world where the hypocrisy rules everything you guys do?
damn good mr. jam
So your theory is Romney will somehow win New Mexico?
The PPP seems to change hour to hour. First for Romney, now Obama’s up. Jesus, I’ve had it with polls.
Nov. 6….are we there yet?
You will be crying, not me. Romney has it in the bag in the case of a TCTC nail bitter. In. The. Bag.
Are you going to cry about Diebold “stealing” the election? Call the electorate stupid? Make empty threats about moving to Canada, or all of the above?
Around here, #3 is by far the largest group.
@quannlace: I honestly think PPP is trying too hard to shed the ‘Democratic’ label attached to its name by having polls that are more right-leaning. It’s a bit disconcerting, because I felt they were one of the better pollsters.
Republicans ALWAYS win in the end, motherfucker. We have won the last four years and will cap it off with a VICTORY over your pin-up messiah himself.
Get his bus ticket for Chicago now, because he’s losing his plane.
it’s the result of their CEO maker-worship culture.
they just don’t have the people who know how to DO the “community organizing” in any real sense – once you get past the media infrastrcuture like hate radio and the astroturf teabagger front groups, and those are all top down outrage manufacturing projects.
no worries. I didn’t take it that way. My post was in no way or manner an attack on you….it was a geek joke….see Reservoir Dogs, scene 1.
@gogol’s wife: If I ever talk to it, I’m definitely a #3. But I think I see a bunch of #2’s just above. And a #1.
And in Florida, one of the polls had Obama +7 in registered voters, while down only 1 in LV. That’s a huge gap, and on that OFA’s ground game might be able to bridge for a narrow Obama win there.
But there’s still time for FL to move in either direction in any event. It’s certainly not locked into Romney’s column yet. I’d call it nearly a coinflip with Romney a hair ahead. Which blows my mind considering he has the Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver on the ticket, but oh well.
Well, if there is one, I’d guess the South because the opposition is simply so much more vociferous. Someone posted a poll of white voters here a while back and everywhere else in the country it was Obama +4-8 or so and in the south it was Romney +60 or something ridiculous. And it doesn’t take many people to do something violent.
I think if Obama wins big and convincing enough to not really be disputed, the wingnuts will shut up for a while. I don’t really know why other than it will be such a letdown they’ll have all figuratively gone hoarse from the yelling. But I think if it’s really close or an EV/PV split, all the crazy crackpot stuff they’ve been stewing over for years about media bias, Democratic voter fraud, and fancy liberal elites will just boil over, particularly if he starts the night losing and ends up winning.
Also: If Obama wins on a EV/PV split you’re going to see more counterfactual bullshit from the media than you’ve seen the whole election so far. There are enough of them dying to talk about Obama isn’t really a legitimate president that an EVPV split will be a windfall for them.
4. People with more than a couple of Jack and Coke’s behind them.
The RNC has a ground game as good as Obambi’s, losers, even though Romney doesn’t. That will make up the difference.
I find it interesting that so many seniors are in favor of voucher care for their medicare. They don’t seriously think that voucher care will only be for those below the age of 55, do they?
The new way to counteract this is to call the Romney/Ryan plan a “modernization” of Medicare. And it’s working. Amazing what changing words around and using them to describe the same thing can do. Frank Luntz wins yet again. It is already in the robocalls for Florida in the last two weeks and we have a new direct mail piece talking about “modernization” as well.
I’d say a good #4 is ‘bored people.’
I’m not 1 and have no illusions about being 2. I’m 3 or 4, when I get bothered enough to respond. I’ve also been known to tell people not to feed trolls and then lose my temper and start doing it myself. Guilty as charged.
And if this is of demographic interest, even if I’m just trolling myself, I never end up enjoying it. I always feel spiritually unclean afterwards, and it takes a lot for that to happen.
You are actually correct. Never accuse the electorate of being overly intelligent.
BTW – If romney wins, he won’t be able to do much anyway. The senate looks like it will be in Democratic hands. And Harry Reid hates Romney more than Obama does.
@Paul: I’m in Florida. The seniors I’ve spoken to are very worried about their rising health care costs. A couple of them believe that vouchers will help contain costs.
Why anyone would think this, given the evident inability of private insurers to lower health care costs and medical bills before this, I have no idea.
@raven: Yes!! It shall be dubbed the Miller Lite Insurrection of 2013!
Both #4’s listed above fit nicely into the #3 category. A true Troll will rarely troll another true Troll. Normal folks can/will troll a true Troll for all variety of reasons, drunkenness and boredom among them.
@redshirt: You know what your job is right? That’s to ensure that those 2 are confirmed Obama voters.
@Paul: Who the fuck is willing to risk the presidency based on that? At some point, the goddamn government has to function and it will be based on teatardian nonsense from the House and the White House.
Good strategy. Modernization makes it sound like you intend to feed seniors to the wood chipper and replace them with robots.
Yeah, we saw that in FL and VA where they think the only way to win it is to cheat. Funny how ACORN, which never did anything against the law, was demonized but outright registration fraud, the kind that leads to actual arrests on criminal charges, means the ground game the THE AWESOME!
@magurakurin: Ohio, bitches!!
Have a listen; we’ve decided it’s our theme song at the Cincinnati field office I’m working out of. We crank this shit UP:
Jayhawks – Somewhere In Ohio
Mike in NC
Fucking Frank Luntz has already admitted that Obama will win reelection.
No, they don’t. The RNC/Willard campaign were depending on Nathan Sproul/Strategic Allied Consulting, which has already been kicked out of several states, for GOTV. If yesterday’s arrest in Virginia leads to a larger suppression operation, which looks likely at this point, they’ll be in even worse shape.
@geg6: #2 example.
@ruemara: Well and truly on it. I just learned the 20 year old is not even registered to vote yet! Young people! Though I suppose in either VT or MA it will make little difference to Obama. But MA’s got the Warren race and that’s worth it.
Oh, yeah. The whitest white boy in the world will be singing like a canary after a few nights spent in jail in VA. And that’s even before he’s gotten a gander at a federal prison, which is where he’s headed unless he sings.
Sorry, I haven’t been following. Example #2 what?
@Hill Dweller: There are now three separate known instances in Virginia of Republican voter reg contractors discarding Democratic voter registrations. Only one arrest, though. And though the one arrest was officially working for another company, he was actually working for Sproul.
@Quarks: They don’t actually believe that vouchers will help control costs. They are Republicans and thus they will pretend to defend their side’s latest bullshit. Like how no one _actually_ believes that cutting taxes in a “revenue neutral” way helps the economy, because it’s obviously nonsense. They believe in being loyal to the cause of getting rid of That One, and they know all this season’s shibboleths.
@geg6: Reasons for talking with a Troll.
@geg6: And man, do I ever hope he sings!
@JenJen: All it takes is one prosecutor to befriend him and mildly suggest that there might be a light way out of this. All he has to do is name names. And a lot of federal prosecutors are quite adept at that suggestion. He’ll sing like Ethel Merman before the end of the month.
@JenJen: I am MikeJ and I approve that song.
In honour of Washington’s mail in ballot system, I shall listen to Alex Chilton’s first band, the Box Tops, do The Letter. Filled my ballot out today!
 Mostly mail in. You can drop it off in person until 8pm election night.
ETA: Might I also suggest for the Ohoites, Dayton, Ohio–19 Something and 5 by one of my favourite bands, Guided By Voices.
Jesus fucking christ – it almost sounds like they confusedly believe their health care costs are somehow correlated with the deficit. The only “cost containment” offered by Granny-Starving vouchers is to take the line item cost off the federal budget and onto individual seniors’ budgets, even more so once the voucher proves grossly inadequate to cover the expenses many seniors inevitably accumulate.
OT, but, oh holy shit, look what Issa did:
Issa’s Benghazi document dump exposes several Libyans working with the U.S.
I mean, OMG, WTF, this is serious.
@FlipYrWhig: No, the sad thing is they seem to be actually believing it.
What they see is that even with Medicare, their bills are going up. In part this is because of something Obamacare plans to crack down on — the policies hospitals and doctors connected to hospitals/hospital clinics have of sending a bill for the visit/procedure/test/lab test through the hospital, and then sending a second bill for that same visit/procedure/test/lab test through the hospital but “on behalf of” the doctors claiming that the doctors are just “affiliated” with the hospitals, and charging a Medicare deductible for both, and saying, well, Medicare already agreed to pay for Medicare’s portions of both bills, so either you or your Medicare supplemental must cover the rest.
Then the seniors decide that government always but always spends lots of money because the government doesn’t need to make a profit so the government doesn’t care WHAT the government spends, but since private industry DOES have to make a profit, they have an incentive to rein in costs. This is a very nice argument and almost believable except for the small problem that health care insurers have done a lousy job so far of keeping costs down. Denying procedures and raising premiums, sure, they can do. Keeping costs down not so much. Or if they can do it they haven’t been.
The Gallup poll had Romney +22 in the South, Obama +4 to +6 everywhere else. This is actually one of the reasons I kinda like the electoral college. I think it would be pretty disastrous if you needed the votes of older white Southerners to win an elections.
Oops! What an idiot. All to help out poor Mittens. Maybe their should be a committee to investigate the committee.
@MikeJ: I’m from Dayton originally, and adore Guided by Voices. Right on!
@Yutsano: From your lips to God’s ears. Even Lord Stanley Puppeh Dog Earz!!
Not only that; why would ANY private insurer insure them if they have a pre-existing condition as most seniors are likely to have? I just want to scream at these people…
@Turgidson: Yep, and meanwhile, one reason their health care costs are going up is because hospitals are like, thank god, Medicare patients! Most of this bill will be paid for! Quick, let’s raise our costs a bit so we can cover ourselves for the money we are losing on uninsured patients.
Part of the Obamacare deal was to reassure hospitals that yes, they could reduce the amounts they bill Medicare because they won’t be dealing with as many uninsured patients.
I don’t quite get why you think I’m going for some sort of big smackdown. It’s true that ACORN was demonized and it’s true that almost every case of registration shenanigans can be traced back to a particular organization that is on the payroll of the Republican party. It’s a statement of fact. I don’t really give a shit if PO takes umbrage or if he comments back. I just don’t want any casual readers to think that what he said is true. Fuck the troll. I just want my side and any sympathizers to have the facts.
Mike in NC
@JenJen: Run to your fainting couch!
@JenJen: if there is an evpv split expect lots of talk about faithless electors.
damn good mr. jam
Isn’t it great to exist at this point in time?
@JenJen: In Dog we trust!
That is just sickeningly repulsive. Don’t they care about anything, except hurting Obama?
Too many Mitts on the dance floor.
Not enough ladies too many Mitts.
/Flight of the Conchords
@CW in LA: To Todd Obama had ‘turned off’ women by being such a wimp at the first debate. The second debate didn’t count because women found Mitt being a wired jerk very virile. Thus Obama looked like a wimp and lost.
@Svensker: Rhetorical question, right?
@Political Observer: Are you promising us that the GOP will try to steal a close election? Eh? Guaranteed results that the victory WILL go to the GOP if it is close?
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE DOING?
@Mike in NC: Yeah? Doesn’t bother you at all? Really?
Let’s just say I have it on good authority that in case of a close election, Romney/Ryan has it in the motherfucking bag. I’ll leave it at that.
@Svensker: No. SATSQ.
As others have mentioned, I’m sure, the SL Trib isn’t owned by the Mormon church, and is probably Utah’s only major media outlet that doesn’t have a decidedly Republican skew.
@geg6: Generally, trying to rebut a known Troll is an utterly futile endeavor. It only keeps the Troll operational towards their true goal – disrupting whatever discussion is occurring in order to focus on them.
Once again, you’re pretending to have inside info.
Why are you always so desperate for a bunch of dirty hippy Obama supporters’ validation?
Mike in NC
@Hill Dweller: DougJ. That is all you need to know.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Why are you folks feeding it? At best, it’s a spoof. At worst, it’s just a know-nothing begging for attention.
It’s kind of cute when it tries to act like some savvy political operative.
In reality, its full-time employment likely consists of holding a sign that says “We Buy Gold!”.
@CW in LA:
Well, yeah. Women learn. Duh.
@Mike in NC: As I’ve said before, I really hope he/she is a parody poster. No one should go through life that ignorant and insecure.
I’m always interested in how the establishment media spins a strong position with women and minority voters into something negative.
Votes is votes, yet you rarely hear anyone say that if it weren’t for white dudes, Mitt would be screwed six ways to Sunday.
@Cacti: Cuz white, land-owning males is where it’s at.
The last time it pretended to have inside info, it was promising that the UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH would be buying up every second of advertising time on every NFL game in every swing state.
Doesn’t seem to have happened.
Like I said, I don’t give a shit about PO. I just don’t want any casual or naive readers here to get the wrong idea, in that PO may or may not have a point. PO is a known liar to us regulars, but not necessarily to casual BJers.
I like to think this was a giant fuck you to Nashville’s Gannett fishwrap, The Tennessean, which yesterday endorsed Romney after a long, rambling op-ed basically outlining all of his flip flops and flaws. It was the weirdest fucking thing ever. But they closed with, “this endorsement wasn’t easy, but if you govern like the man who was governor of Massachusetts, you can bring the country together.”
I mean, WTF? You people smoking something over there on the editorial board? Romney isn’t going to govern like he did when he was in Massachusetts, not with this load of wingnuts in the Republican Party, and the Koch-suckers and Fox News morons driving the narrative. How fucking stupid can you get?
The endorsement told me they had no fucking clue as to what’s really wrong with this country right now. They still think the problem is the person in the white house, not the institutions which have failed the country.
LOL! I remember that. He went off on that for about three threads. And the only ad I saw in heavy rotation here after that was the cheesy ShamWow-inspired commercial asking me to call and pledge to vote for Mittens. Worst shit I ever saw. Grade D p0rn has better production values. And the ad buy was brilliant! Ran in heavy rotation on MSNBC. Not CNN or ESPN, but MSNBC.
I think they need to hire a marketing person.
@Southern Beale: Willard was not a good Governor. I’m so tired of seeing journalists pretend he was.
Willard didn’t run for reelection because his approval rating was in the mid-30’s, and the state had turned on his halfway though his term. He essentially quit governing for most of his last two years in office.
@geg6: Hmm. Good point. I had not considered that perspective. I’m renaming #2 on my list to “factchecking”, which can cover a variety of motivations.
Mike in NC
@Hill Dweller: I almost had to bitch slap my younger brother in Quincy who was about to claim Mittens was “a pretty good governor” last year.
@Southern Beale: I read that endorsement, and it blew my mind. Took me right back to 2004, when the utterly predictable Cincinnati Enquirer spelled out every single one of Dubya’s massive failings, thesis-style, and at the end said, essentially, “Fuck it, what me worry? Bush/Cheney 2004!”
As an aside, how are you coping without NHL and your beloved Preds? I feel this massive void in my life, for reals. Not really sure if I hate Bettman or Fehr more at this point, which is really saying something. Le Sigh.
@HRA: It’s still a conservative paper–the op-ed columnists are local wingnuts, so I rarely read them anymore. Actually, I’ve cut back to not using the paper for much more than the puzzles and comics, and to find out about local events when I get the notion.
@JenJen: Want. Canucks. NAOW!!
And just as an aside, this greatly reduces Carrie Underwood’s excuses for not having kidlets.
@Yutsano: Ooooooh, hadn’t thought of that. Hey, no pressure, Carrie!!
(What we both wouldn’t give, you know? Mike Fisher, purrrrrrr…)
Also too, Canadiens, tu me manques!!
This is not a big deal; the SLT is Utah’s ‘gentile’ (i.e. non Mormon) newspaper. If The Deseret News (a fully owned subsidiary of the LDS) were to do the same (ain’t gonna happen) well then you would have a real ‘man bites dog’ story.
Doesn’t mean shit because…kenya, socialism, bowing to terrorists.
@JenJen: Oh don’t even tell me they ain’t giving it a go. Mike is a full-blooded Canadian male, and Carrie has said she wants a family. This really would be the opportune time to get crackin’ on that task.
But ya know Carrie, if you’re too busy… :)
@Mike in NC:
I agree. He just tipped his hand. PO is DougJ.
another one bites the dust…
Forum Transmitted Disease
this thread sucks.
@cmorenc: Not in Price, which is the only county in the whole state that consistently votes Democratic. There are a lot of Mormons there too, like the ones you ran into, but the town was settled by coal miners and railroad workers.
@cmorenc: I’ve lived in Salt Lake City for over 30 years and you summed it up pretty well. Sssshh! Don’t tell anyone. It’s actually a very nice place to live; you just learn to tune out the Mo’s.
pseudonymous in nc
Now that Chuck Toad’s basic electoral arithmetic has deserted him — the thing that got him overpromoted in that Peter Principle way — we can truly consign him to the landfill.
Charlie Cook, on the other hand, is a Villager who notes that the state polls still represent a pretty steep cliff for Mittens.
@ranchandsyrup: And as you know, there is no democracy in a beehive.