Will this madness ever end?
Mass Shooting at Brookfield Square Mall in Wisconsin
BROOKFIELD, Wis. —
WISN 12 News has learned that a mass shooting has taken place near the Brookfield Square Mall.
WISN 12 News has been told that this is a “mass casualty” situation and that the scene is not secured.
To follow our live breaking news coverage of this story, CLICK HERE.
Multiple roads in the area are blocked off.
Area hospitals told 12 News they have been put on alert.
Witnesses described people crying near the Azana Spa, which is near the mall.
I have nothing new to say, so I will repeat what I said after the Aurora, CO shooting.
[read full post at ABLC]
Linnaeus
I doubt it. We’ve accepted such things as the price of living here.
Cacti
But Mistermix was just praising George McGovern for his astute lack of support for gun control.
c u n d gulag
And of course, for the next few weeks/months, it’ll be “too soon” to talk about some kind of sensible gun control.
It was “too soon” after the last one, to talk about it.
It’ll be “too soon” to talk after this one, until the next one.
And then, again, it’ll be “too soon” to talk about gun control.
Always, always, it’s “too soon” to talk about gun control.
It’s too bad it’s ‘too late’ for so many people because we can never starting talking about the last massacre “too soon.”
eemom
Nothing to do but bang one’s head on the desk and weep. Again.
Matthew Reid Krell
@Cacti: Oh noes, front-pagers at BJ in disarray! However will they defeat the RedStaters now?
Or, you know, the world is complicated, and simple answers are potentially dangerous.
Herbal Infusion Bagger
Well, according to Mitt, it’s all the fault of single moms.
lacp
I used to think that gun control was the answer. Nowadays I’m not sure. For a so-called civilization, Americans are pretty savage. Gun control is necessary, but not sufficient.
Cacti
@Matthew Reid Krell:
President Obama hasn’t proposed a single new restriction on firearms in the past 4 years, which has led the NRA to endorse him…
Nah, they endorsed the Republican like always, who actually does have a history of signing restrictive gun legislation.
More comity with right wing will surely get us what we want.
Matthew Reid Krell
@lacp: …So what else, then?
Not snarking at you; I’m just wondering what you want.
Yutsano
Now see if everyone at that mall had been armed…
That argument is coming folks. The NRA isn’t just gonna sit back quietly here.
Linnaeus
@lacp:
This is pretty much how I feel on the matter. I think the problem is a cultural one that is beyond the capability of gun control (and by that I mean gun control measures beyond the ones the U.S. already has) to address.
me
Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (WI-5) on gun control. Maybe the press will do their job for a change an press him on it. (To be clear, he represents Brookfield)
Matthew Reid Krell
@Cacti: Shorter:
Is it about how Mistermix praised a savvy politician for being savvy about his (small) electorate, or is it about how Obama didn’t give you your pony because he was hoping for the impossible-to-obtain NRA endorsement?
Ladies and gentlemen, the Non Sequitur Award for the day goes to….
R-Jud
Is it bad that I immediately thought “I hope the shooter isn’t my cousin X”, who lives near there?
Baud
@Cacti:
Which is why he hasn’t lost Ohio…
MikeJ
So this is Milwaukee, right?
lacp
@Matthew Reid Krell: I think one thing that’s worth looking at is teaching self-control; this doesn’t have to be authoritarian or religious (but I repeat myself), there are CBT programs out there. There appears to be a big link between lack of self-control and later criminal behavior (what a surprise!). I think it’s worth investigating.
And we also really, really need to enforce gun legislation that’s on the books. Here in PA there is a pretty harsh penalty for committing a crime with a firearm that’s separate from the crime proper. It’s rarely enforced.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@lacp:
Personally, I tend to think that population density is the most sensible way to set gun controls. If someone who lives 5 or 10 miles from his nearest neighbor wants to have an arsenal, I don’t worry too much about that, because that means he’s going to have to drive 40 or 50 miles to get to someplace where there would be enough people to do a mass shooting.
The problems seem to occur in suburban and urban areas. Let truly rural dwellers have as many guns as their crazy little hearts desire but make it harder for people in populated areas to have them.
Cacti
@Matthew Reid Krell:
Was there some point to that burst of verbal diarrhea?
Anoniminous
@MikeJ:
Suburb of Milwaukee.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@MikeJ:
Western suburbs of Milwaukee, as far as I can tell on a map. Halfway between Milwaukee and Waukesha.
lacp
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Interesting. My sister’s boyfriend has a few acres in E. Texas outside any large town, and he told me his neighbors have no problem at all if he goes and pops one off from his back porch.
Yutsano
@MikeJ: I forget: where do the Packers play again?
me
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): The exact location of the spa in question.
gex
@Linnaeus: Livable wages, less stressed citizens, less using divide and conquer amongst the citzenry to advance political campaigns, news programs that don’t hype fear for views and page clicks…
At every turn we have policies that promote the kind of stress and anger that make us turn on each other. Then we add our Guns, Guns, and More Guns policies and it is a deadly combination.
Cacti
@gex:
Easier access to healthcare, including identification and treatment of mental disorders.
Robin G.
It still stuns me that we can’t have a discussion about gun control in this country. I can’t exactly blame Democrats for this; the fact is that gun control is political suicide right now, and there’s just too much at stake on every other issue to sacrifice wins on Principle. Why it’s political suicide, and how we get it to stop being political suicide, is the dilemma… and damned if I know the answer.
Linnaeus
@gex:
Right. I’d be willing to bet that enacting measures such as these would go a long, long way in reducing violent crimes in this country.
Chris
@Linnaeus:
I’ve heard that argument made before – by a Canuck on this very blog, actually, who pointed out months ago that Canada had its own gun culture, as did most places, it just didn’t reach the borderline-pornographic levels that it does in America.
Not sure that I completely believe it – I’m always wary of the cultural-based explanations. But it’s a fact that our gun culture is way crazier than most other people’s.
gex
And, quite honestly, the standard American diet isn’t great for our mental state. Caffeined, sugared, and energy drinked to the gills. Junk food with negligible nutritional value.
As an aside, I made a drastic change to my diet when my girlfriend was diagnosed with cancer. And it is stunning the change in how I feel physically and emotionally can’t be overstated.
Linnaeus
@Chris:
The comparison with Canada is one of the things I had in mind. That said, I admit that I’m speculating somewhat when I make a cultural-based explanation. I could be totally wrong on that. The guns are out there, though, and Americans really, really want them. That’s a significant obstacle to any new gun control measure.
Ben Franklin
It’s an opportunity to beat the drum; Great American Gun Roundup. News at 11.
Linnaeus
@gex:
To continue the aside, what changes did you make? I ask because I’m considering doing the same thing as you did.
Cacti
@Chris:
Per teh wiki, to get a PAL license in Canuckistan, you have to…
1. Fill out a CAFC form 921
2. Complete the Canadian Firearms or Restricted Firearms Safety Course
3. Pass background check including a mandatory 28-day waiting period for first-time applicants
A bit more stringent than what we have in the good old US of A.
gex
@Linnaeus: My therapist pointed me to a book called Crazy Sexy Diet by Kris Carr.
Kris was diagnosed with an untreatable sarcoma at 40. So she went the health nut route to treat it. She’s been able to shrink her tumors through lifestyle changes.
The book explains how food affects you at a cellular level. I’ve found that it really changed my relationship with food. When I’m picking something to eat, knowing what it is doing to my body makes it easier to eat better.
I’m not strict at all, I mostly eat according to that book at home, but when I’m out with friends I’ll eat whatever I want. In the book, she does a pretty good job of not being overly strident – constantly saying that any changes away from a standard American diet are good.
ranchandsyrup
@Yutsano: Plus the old “false flag” trope. Yay tribalism!
blingee
At least ABL Vista Home edition SP2 didn’t title this post “Shots fired at Obama………”.
No doubt if there is even a hint of a white person looking at a black person a bit funny within a 1000mile radius of this shooting ABL Vista Home Edition SP2 will try tie the incidents together somehow and call it another example of out of control racism.
Capt. Seaweed
2nd Amendment collateral damage. Nothing will ever change.
lacp
@blingee: Thanks. That was very…enlightening. ET go home?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@blingee:
Well, good to know that you think firing shots at your political opponent’s offices is just good clean American fun that no one should get upset about.
Anoniminous
Oh hell. They’ve locked-down the hospital. They don’t have the shooter. They don’t know where he is.
Nerull
@gex: While eating better is never a bad thing, I wouldn’t expect the explanations in that book to be very connected to anything actually going on in your body.
trollhattan
@Linnaeus:
Enhanced, for displeasure.
blingee
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): That is quite a case of Romnesia you have there.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Yay! Durf is working on his next banning! How kind of him.
Robert Sneddon
There was a “mass shooting” over here in the UK a couple of days ago. Well, not a shooting as such, just someone in a van (ObUS: light truck) in Cardiff city centre committing a series of apparently-deliberate hit-and-runs. One dead, two in critical condition in hospital, several others injured including seven children under the age of 12. One person is in custody.
gex
@Nerull: You don’t have to expect anything. I read the book. The doctors and nutritionists were pretty convincing to me. As are the changes in the author’s cancer. And mainly, I was discussing my experience.
I do love the approach of not reading it at all or getting to know anything about it but deciding it is bullshit nonetheless.
PsiFighter37
I firmly believe that if the Founders were around in the present day to see what had become of the 2nd Amendment, they’d be the very first ones to repeal it. It’s easily the biggest mistake they made when writing the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (aside from the half-assed compromises about slaves being 3/5 of a person and other slavery-related provisions).
Gravenstone
@Yutsano: The young lady I’ve been seeing used to patronize this salon when she lived in metro Milwaukee. Unfortunately her takeaway is, she’s going to start carrying concealed.
/facepalm
blingee
@Yutsano: How pathetic of a life do you have where you have nothing better to do except read all comments on a backwoods swamp messageboard? Not only that but you obsess over some commenters like it actually matters somehow? That’s right up there with stalking underage girls on facebook from thousands of miles away.
Gravenstone
@MikeJ: A western burb thereof, yes.
Over Again
Woman gets order of protection against estranged husband. Estranged husband loses his shit and goes to estranged wife’s place of employment and tries to shoot her, shooting a lot of other people too. He used a hand gun. It’s not Colorado folks.
The Other Chuck
@gex: If the first Amazon review (of the kindle edition) is any indication, I wouldn’t touch it either. Gluten-free raw food vegan diet and the obsessive “cleanse” regimen? No thanks.
JCJ
Yeah, I was out running errands before coming home to watch the Packers. Decided on getting lunch while out – thought about the food court at Brookfield Square Mall but opted to grab a sub. Flipped on the game and saw the news. 7½ years ago there was a shooting at a Sheraton hotel just south of that same mall (between the mall and I-94.) I am now hunkered down in my basement here in Brookfield. This coming three months after the shooting at the Sikh temple in Oak Creek seems to make it even more disturbing. I have been seeing a lot of insane Romney adds from the NRA on TV lately. Wonder if there will be more of them after this…
Chris
@PsiFighter37:
I think the Founding Fathers, by specifying “a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,” probably thought they’d made it pretty clear that they weren’t trying to create a total state of Hakuna Matata when it came to the gun thing. So yeah, on that thing, I’d let them off the hook.
Gex-mobile
For instance, you know why I buy in to what she said about sugars and simple carbs? Be side the night before the PET scan she was supposed to avoid those. Then 45 minutes before the scan they gave her a sugary drink so the scan could pick up the cancer clearly, based on how it metabolizes those things as compared to normal cells.
Gex-mobile
@JCJ: Yeah, I’m skipping the cleanses because those seem disgusting. I’m not following it hard core. It does help me make better choices.
Gex-mobile
For fuck’s sake, people, I was asked about it. I’m not pushing anything. If you recall I simply discussed changing my diet and feeling better. Christ.
suzanne
@lacp:
I’m sure if I noted that gun violence is overwhelmingly a male problem, the right wing would somehow try to convince me that women are the real root of the issue. BLAR BLAR BLAR men are dominators, it’s in our animal nature, BLAR BLAR BLAR.
Linda
@JCJ: NBC just reported that the shooter was the estranged husband of one of the victims, so, unless you live really close (authorities fear he may have planted a bomb in or near the salon), it’s probably safe to come out of your basement.
lacp
@suzanne: Well, yeah, the answer would be, if it’s overwhelmingly a male problem, let’s get everybody packing heat and make it a female problem too! Easy, isn’t it ?
SiubhanDuinne
@Over Again:
Well, then, that makes it all okay. Thanks for the clarification.
AxelFoley
@blingee:
Dude, fuck the fuck off.
suzanne
@lacp: God. It’s amazing how “PACK MORE HEAT!” is their answer to everything. Handguns can’t hail, they can only be failed. I’m more scared on the enablers than I am of the shooter at this point.
Another Halocene Human
@gex: I do love the approach of not reading it at all or getting to know anything about it but deciding it is bullshit nonetheless.
How glib of you to just know that anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing about health care fraud.
Another Halocene Human
@Over Again: Am I having deja vu? I thought the same thing happened in Florida (hair salon and everything) just a few days ago.
Another Halocene Human
@suzanne: If a furriner tries to kill an American, it’s KILL EVERYTHING AND SALT THE EARTH. Oh, and give up all privacy and civil liberties now so we can catch the evildoers. If a real ‘Merrican starts shooting people up, glibertarian assholes tell us it’s the price we pay for freedom.
WELL WHICH ONE IS IT?!
eemom
@suzanne:
Of course it is, as is all violence.
OTOH, I have a FB friend — a really sweet guy with a lovely wife — who recently posted a pic of said lovely wife’s new “purse gun.” She’s as into it as he is. Creepy.
Ben Franklin
@Another Halocene Human:
Quackery is a booming business. Most lawyers excel at nothing more than figuring out your cash position, bleeding you dry, then dropping you. They make sure you don’t die, though you wish you were.
Laura
@Cacti: I’m not really sure why talking about mental disorders is the first thing that comes up in these situations. it stigmatizes people with mental disorders as people who could become violent at any second. When in fact some people are just completely sane but stupid and evil.
opie_jeanne
@Another Halocene Human: Seal Beach, CA, October 12, 2011. 8 dead.
Pinkamena Panic
@Laura: I’m not really sure why talking about mental disorders is the first thing that comes up in these situations. it stigmatizes people with mental disorders as people who could become violent at any second. When in fact some people are just completely sane but stupid and evil.
QUOTED. FOR. FUCKING. TRUTH.
Yutsano
@AxelFoley: It’s Durf man. Just let it go. You play his game by responding to him.
eemom
@Laura:
I think you miss the point, which is that 9 times out of 10 in these situations, the shooter IS mentally ill. At least as I see it, to focus on that fact is not to stigmatize the mentally ill — it’s the opposite. It’s to recognize that mental illness IS an illness and that people who suffer from it need help. In the case of the small subset who do become violent, that is both for their own sakes and for everyone else’s.
blingee
@AxelFoley: Needzz moar “fuck”. Using the word “dude” amplifies the intellectual intimidation so well done anyways..
suzanne
@eemom:
I have a coworker who’s a real gun nut. (A dude. shocker.) He likes to get into gun ownership debates with me for some reason, and after working with him for a year and a half, I’ve learned that he is one of the twitchiest, most emotional mofos I’ve ever met—in short, EXACTLY who you don’t want owning/operating a firearm. Anyway, he was blathering at me about how his house had been broken into, and that if that had ever happened to me, I was ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE to see things his way, as the only logical response to home invasion is gun ownership. When I told him I had had three home invasions and been chased down the street by someone with a knife, he literally couldn’t talk. I didn’t say that I was scared more than anything of well-meaning but irrational people like him carrying guns all over the damn place.
Laura
@eemom: I don’t disagree that many of them are. But do you have any proof for your “9 out of 10” figure? This situation seems to be a man angry at his ex-wife.
1badbaba3
Needs moar irony
Narcissus
Getting so tired of this shit
We’re living in the Star Trek mirror universe
Paul in KY
@suzanne: Maybe one or more of those home invasions happened due to them knowing there was no likelyhood of a violent response?
I am assuming here that you do not like home invasions or being chased down street by knife wielding somebody. I am assuming nothing bad would have happened if you had twisted a knee while running & they had caught up to you?